February 22, 2012 at 6:03 pm #13765
EDIT *more rational TO US logic based folks*
Can’t believe it cut out my sentence!February 22, 2012 at 6:20 pm #13768
William – it can be easy to fail in your attempt at suicide if you are interrupted. Or, if you end up passing out, or if someone finds you, or you don’t have access to some things that would make your passing faster.
Women tend to take pills, or go for less “messy” deaths. They don’t want people to be burdened with cleaning up after them. So, they normally do not shoot themselves. Teens do because it is graphic and gory and sensational. They want to leave an impression. Men do not care for the most part and will do whatever it takes to get the job done.February 22, 2012 at 6:38 pm #13772
I’m talking serious suicide to where there’s no point of surviving. If you really want to kill yourself, you will find a way to where no one will find you to save you. Just like if you are hungry, you will find a way to eat. If you are thirsty, you will find a way to get a drink. If you want something to be done, within reason, you can make it happen.
I’m not talking about popping some pills and then someone finding you and they save you. That goes back to my initial point of the attention seeking and drama. If you REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to kill yourself, there would be no failed attempt. You would make sure when you make that decision to die, that there won’t be a chance of someone finding you with a faint pulse.
I know of a guy that shot himself in a wal-mart parking lot at 3am, and another guy who shot himself in the woods up against a tree. Left a note in his car for his family; however, he knew that he wanted to end his life and he made sure that it would happen.
That’s why I never understood failed suicide. This may seem very insensitive, but if you fail at suicide, you have much bigger problems ahead. That is if you do the suicide the right way. If you aren’t serious about dying, don’t even waste your time trying. Go get some help and make yourself better.February 22, 2012 at 6:51 pm #13774
Here in Alaska, we have limited resources. Some villages don’t even have doctors. Don’t have police officers. Don’t have dentists. For any of that, it takes a special plane to bring them in, or a medivac/emergency chopper to bring the individuals out to a bigger village. Isolation is an issue.
Suicides happen. In the bigger places, isolation is still an issue, and while we have more resources, all resources are overwhelmed and some aren’t great or geared towards what’s needed because of funding sources. It’s a messed up hodge podge.
I agree, that some do what they do as an attempt for attention, but I cannot lump all of them in there. Incompetence, poor planning, lack of planning and bad timing (or very good timing, depending on how you want to look at it) can also play roles in a failed suicide attempt.February 22, 2012 at 6:55 pm #13775
I can imagine that if someone I were close to committed suicide (hasn’t happened, thank God), I may struggle with some feelings about how their choice was a selfish one. Suicide is obviously traumatic for loved ones, and that is a very sad aspect of it.
But I can’t fathom expending any energy judging others even one iota for the “selfishness” of their suicides. I don’t understand that at all. With all of the troubles in the world, and all of the things to worry about that do affect so many people, you’re going to take issue with someone that is so miserable and so unhappy that they impulsively choose death over any chance at happiness? I think that part of the purpose of living is to find a way to be happy, so suicide is so tragically sad to me in every way. For the victim, as well as the victim’s family’s. There really is no room in my mind for feeling anything other than sadness and empathy for people who commit suicide. There’s certainly no room for judgment. I reserve that for people who do things purposely to hurt others, which I know is not the intent of most suicidal people.
As far as having a “pet peeve” for people not succeeding at suicide? Um, no. My feelings above would apply to those cases too. The only way they’re different is that maybe part of them does still want to live (they subconsciously sabotaged their suicide attempt) OR they happened to be interrupted or something. Neither of these circumstances would do anything to affect my sadness and empathy for their situation.
As for the talk of “drama” and people seeking “attention”…. if someone is a dramatic and annoying person that you personally dislike, who also happened to attempt suicide, that is your prerogative. But I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of mental health and the concept of empathy in general to insinuate that suicides and attempted suicides are just attention-seeking, selfish behaviors.February 23, 2012 at 4:52 am #13801
Re: the selfishness of suicides. I think you have to get to a very dark place before you’re even considering suicide, and people who are in that very dark place feel that they are a burden on everyone. So, to them the suicide isn’t a selfish act, but a selfless act, because they feel things like: ‘The world would be better off without me.’ They do think about the way it impacts the feelings of others, but they think it will be positive.
Re: The ‘attention seeking’: Yes, some people do half-hearted suicide attempts. Yes, this is a cry for help. For some reason they can’t talk about it in a normal manner, and so they see this as the only option to get someone to listen.February 23, 2012 at 5:56 am #13806
@Will.i.am – Thanks, I’m glad I survived too. If I had died at 15 or 16, I would have never really become myself, studied the wonderful things I did in college, or had the experience of falling in love with the man I still believe is my soulmate. I didn’t believe at that time that I was worthy of love, but I was wrong. Now, instead of fantasizing about killing my former classmates, I just strive to be a better person than them every single day. And I am. Many of them are in jail, prison, or working at a crappy factory or McDonald’s.
I think most of all what helped me find happiness is simply being in control of my own destiny. My parents were so authoritarian that I wasn’t allowed to become an adult until I forcibly pushed them away, moved out, and became one. They believe that God forms your destiny; I believe that I do. God did not give me my apartment, my car, my boyfriend, or anything else in my life. I went out and made those things happen, and that sense of accomplishment is what gives me peace. I think many people who are depressed and suicidal just feel like life is beyond their control. I know I did, and that was the root of my anguish.February 23, 2012 at 12:40 pm #13850
This is going to be long:
I tried to commit suicide when I was 15. I have a chemical imbalance which was somewhat regulated throughout my teen years and into my mid-20′s; I think I was on every anti-depressant that was on the market at the time, even some stronger drugs to manage my downswings into depression. I went to counseling for years.
I’m not the same person now at 30 that I was at 15.
It’s hard for me to read statements like yours Will.i.am because I DIDN’T have a shitty childhood. I have parents who care and are fantastic people, sure they pushed me to do better, be better, but I was capable, so why not? I feel a lot of shame at my attempt, I took a bottle of pills, my parents brought me to the ER, where my stomach was pumped, I had charcoal forced into my stomach and I spent at least one night in the ICU. I had to drink some stuff with a name similar to mucus (Mucamus, maybe?) to save my liver from being ruined.
I was sure I wanted to die. I was sure that being nothing would be better than being what I was. I lead up to this attempt with a lot of self-harming behaviors like cutting myself, skipping classes and acting out (I ran away). (My family was fairly strict, I went from honors/AP classes to cutting class and almost being expelled, just skipping classes was a big deal. I didn’t get into drugs or alcohol in high school, for some reason.)
I struggled with wanting to kill myself for years after my failed attempt, but I wasn’t willing to try again because I was so ashamed at not being successful when I did try. I remember writing in my journal that I would never become anything worth being, since I couldn’t even do THAT (kill myself) properly, and if I wanted it that bad, I should have been able to do it. My life 13-16.5 is pretty hazy, I don’t remember a lot of things and even now I have memory issues, which I think has to do with a cycle in my moods, when I’m depressed, I sink into myself and don’t really pay attention to anything. Depression makes people selfish, at least it makes me selfish, and self-focused.
I guess what I’m trying to say is what a lot of other people have said, each person is different. For me, I think my attempt was strongly influenced by my chemical imbalance. Once that was partially out of the equation, I was able to work on forming appropriate coping skills and behavior modification so I could have healthy responses to situations. That was a long process, and I can struggle with making the right choice even now. Depression is an interesting thing; for me it sucks the world away, I lose a lot of motivation (but I still care, underneath, I just can’t make myself do what I want to make myself do), I lose my ability to feel connected to others and to myself; I want to be connected, but I can’t seem to get the connection to stay. I used cutting and other self-harm behaviors for over a decade, as a way to reconnect with myself.
The way I feel now is different than how I used to feel about it. I used to think that people had the right to kill themselves if they wanted to, now, I’m not so sure. If someone is using suicide as a way to manipulate people…I don’t even know how to react to that, I think it’s disgusting. The thought of someone being emotionally manipulative to the point of harming themselves makes me feel sick, because I know what happens to families and friends when someone commits suicide. There is a lot of blame thrown around and a lot of hurt and anger. My siblings, and sometimes I think, my parents, hold a lot of hurt and resentment toward me for my actions as a teenager. I don’t blame them, but it does hurt to know that I created this situation that made them feel that way and there isn’t a way that I can fix it.
I don’t think I disagree with the feeling that suicide and similar behaviors are a weakness, but I don’t really agree either. I know I felt weak when I made my attempt. I felt weak when I cut myself. Now that I’ve broken that habit, don’t rely on booze or grass to dull myself so I don’t notice how apathetic I am, etc I find that I feel stronger, once I break through the depression fog. But it’s very hard to break out of that fog if I don’t catch it early on. As a teenager, I was extremely unaware of the cycles I was going through and would just slide right down.
Things did get better when I got to leave high school early and go to college instead. I still lived with my parents until I was 18, but I got to set my own schedule, I worked 25-30 hours a week on top of a full school schedule, etc. I felt like I was finally able to take control of my life and give myself the direction I wanted. I think Will.i.am and others found their own ways to feel in control of their lives earlier than I did, which may have helped them to respond to negative situations in a more productive, positive way.February 23, 2012 at 12:42 pm #13852
I am reminded of this article, especially point #3 about the limitations of putting ourselves in someone else’s shoes.
I had a good childhood in terms of circumstance, but I was horribly depressed for about a decade when I was younger and I had a lot of problems with suicide ideation. Suicide is rarely the consequence of a logical decision; in fact most who are considering suicide are not in a place where they can make a logical decision.
Depression is an illness with a physical cause. Some consequences of this illness are despair, hopelessness, and sometimes suicide ideation or actual suicide. Objectively, the circumstances of my life were less stressful and difficult as a child than they are now. But now that I’m not depressed I can deal with it and be happy and balanced even when bad things happen.
I don’t mean to condescend, but if you’ve never been depressed (in the medical sense), I’m not sure that you can understand it.February 23, 2012 at 1:49 pm #13871
This has been a really interesting thread. I usually dont share my opinions on suicide or depression because I know they are unhelpful and colored by people i’ve known. I would never tell asuicidal person they were selfish, and I doubt Will would either. But it does get frustrating to be subjected to naturally selfish people who use their depression to get attention.February 23, 2012 at 3:05 pm #13888
@Plasticepoxy: I’m glad that you made it through. What I liked while reading what you had to say, was even though you attempted suicide, you saw the swiss cheese in your life. Now, you can look back and think how poor your choices were and you have a new outlook on life, and hopefully a much better outlook.
That’s really what I want many of us to understand and cherish. The ability to really step back, look at your life, and try to fix things that you can and let everything else fall to the side. I never had thoughts of suicide, but I’ve always had a strong will of rationale. I’ve always been a thinker and will always be a thinker (it absolutely kills my dating life). In the end, I much rather be rationale and stay away from bad things that can happen around me, than be a part of those things and constantly being a burden on myself and family. I’m very self sufficient and I hate being a burden. My Mom, at 60, has just become that person. We talked a few months ago about when and if she can’t live alone anymore and I offered for her to live with me. My Mom can get on my nerves, but I would never leave her to suffer, within reason. She stated that she just wanted to be put in a nursing home and that me and my brother come and see her.
I was sad about that for a couple of days, because I would love my Mom to live with me, even though she can wear me out emotionally at times, but she’s my mom and I love her. In the end, my Mom realized that my brother and myself will have our own lives and families, and may not have the room or the time to take care of her the way she may need at that time. So, I just accepted that that was her wish and I would come and see her, when and if, we ever had to put her in a home.February 23, 2012 at 4:49 pm #13911
I read that article TheRabbit. I liked it. Insightful and somewhat true. No matter how hard we try sometimes it just is impossible to really know/understand/be empathetic about someone else situation. I also believe there are circumstances that people just don’t understand unless you’ve been in the same boat. Like suicide or loosing a child or other great tragedies.February 27, 2012 at 11:31 am #14464
I find this topic really difficult to read through, its a topic that really hits home. When I had first turned 19, I tried to commit suicide. Things in my life had gone so downhill, I thought, that I swallowed a couple hundred ibuprofen. I won’t go into details, but I suffered quite a few losses in quick succession while struggling with health issues. Needless to say, the doctors fixed the damage I caused (mostly – I can’t take ibuprofen or other NSAIDs because it causes ulcers to form where I basically burned my stomach). I was in therapy for months, as well as trying to find an antidepressant that would work for me and my dysthymia. After all of that, I’m better. I’m happy with myself and my life and how it’s progressing, but I still struggle with depression even when I think everything is okay. It’s a disease. I find it so horribly rude to say people are selfish because they survived a suicide attempt. Most of the people I knew from my time in the hospital, they were in such a bad place before they tried that they couldn’t think of anything else to do, and they didn’t know how to find help. I certainly didn’t. So please don’t think of these people as selfish and horrible, be there for them so they CAN get the help they need instead of more judgement. They already feel shame about it. I still hate to wear short sleeved shirts, because people can see the scars from the self harm I used to try to get back to reality, and if anyone asks why I was in the hospital, I just say that I was sick. It’s a sad and awful thing to be that low, that lost. Don’t make the shame worse by callously dismissing their personal struggle as anything less.February 28, 2012 at 1:29 pm #14656
I feel sick just reading some of these comments. As a person who has struggled with depression since I was too young to know what it was, I find the assertion that I should just buck up and think positive frankly insulting and demeaning. It’s comments like those that stop people from seeking help, thinking they can magically flick a switch and feel better, that they’re not normal, and ultimately isolating them so they don’t feel comfortable reaching out for help. Those are people who are primed to attempt suicide.
Depression is a disease. It’s manageable with medication and behavioural changes, but these are things I learned with age, experience, and a support system who understood that what I felt was real and valid but also something I could manage and live through. As a teenager and into my early 20s I didn’t have that. There are parts of my life where I was so depressed I barely remember huge chunks of time. I thought of suicide constantly and had no self-worth. Sometimes I felt almost normal but then another depression would come and the same thing would happen.
I finally attempted suicide when I was 21. Honestly, I had not expected to live that long. I say attempted, but I never actually got to the bridge I planned to jump off because my boyfriend, now husband, found my goodbye letter. I didn’t actually even hide it very well, maybe the one small, defeated part of myself that was still me was crying for help. Because when you are depressed you really aren’t yourself, you’re like a wounded animal scratching at some internal damage you can never reach. And that wound can kill you by your own hand.
The road back from that was a long, difficult one I would wish on no one. I went through some awful things. I saw a therapist who, like you, thought that because I dressed nicely and managed to comb my hair my life wasn’t that bad (it really wasn’t) and I was totally fine (I really wasn’t). That put me off seeking treatment for a long time, and I still haven’t sought another person to talk to in a formal capacity. Mental health care is poor quality and often unattainable where I live without a bigger budget than I have. I continue to live because I have gotten very good at identifying triggers and self-medicating with behaviour changes to prevent my depressive episodes.
I haven’t had a major depressive episode in years, but I FULLY BELIEVE that another one would kill me. Every day of my life I am fighting for my life.
I understand depression is hard to conceptualize if you’ve never had it. But you don’t need to understand to be compassionate. And that is something you are NOT doing in this thread, by calling suicidal people “selfish” and asserting we’re all just delusional idiots who needs to “think positive”. That is some bullshit, and if you don’t understand what you’re talking about then you need to stop talking and listen to people who DO understand.
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