Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

Friday Links

Here are a few things from around the web that may interest you:

Picnic date

“This Is The Happiest Relationship Ever, According To Science” [via Huffington Post]

You will never have the time, energy, freedom or mobility to be exceptional if you have a husband and kids. From: “I Look Down On Young Women With Husbands And Kids And I’m Not Sorry” [via Thought Catalog]

“6 reasons female nudity can be powerful” [via Salon]

“5 Hidden Assumptions That Keep Women From Living Larger” [via Forbes]

“The Surprising Reason College Grads Can’t Get a Job” [via The Fiscal Times]

“If I Can’t Accept You at Your Worst, Then Maybe You Should Stop Being So Horrible” [via HuffPo]

“18 Things We Should Have Been Taught As Teenagers” [via Thought Catalog]

Thank you to those who submitted links for me to include. If you see something around the web you think DW readers would appreciate, please send me a link to wendy@dearwendy.com and if it’s a fit, I’ll include it in Friday’s round-up. Thanks!

You can follow me on Facebook here and sign up for my weekly newsletter here.

106 comments… add one
  • avatar

    jlyfsh January 31, 2014, 2:08 pm

    I can get behind celebrating all ‘accomplishments’ but I can’t get behind telling people, You will never have the time, energy, freedom or mobility to be exceptional if you have a husband and kids. I feel like ‘exceptional’ can mean different things to different people. My exceptional might be something you look down on, etc. And sure doing laundry might not be on the same level as performing open heart surgery. But, what if you don’t want to perform surgery. Why should you consider yourself less of a person for not wanting that?

    I get feeling defensive of your place in life. Like I feel judged for not wanting children by various people. BUT, I don’t feel the need to knock down mothers and what they do because I don’t want that. And I just have a hard time understanding people who do. And do stay at home parents really not take care of themselves? I mean of course they do along with a tiny human.

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 2:45 pm

      I’mma do laundry AND heart surgery, Bitch.

      I like your comment.

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 3:14 pm

        I mean… “narrow-minded fool.” I think that’s more appropriate than bitch.

        Link
  • avatar

    kerrycontrary January 31, 2014, 2:14 pm

    “You will never have the time, energy, freedom or mobility to be exceptional if you have a husband and kids.”….I think we can all find examples of women who were exceptional not only in spite of, but because of, their husband and kids. Sheryl Sandburg? Hilary Clinton? Marissa Mayer? This article is a joke.

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      kerrycontrary January 31, 2014, 2:15 pm

      Oh also…I think a lot of times when people write about children, they think of people who have young children. Yes, you lose some mobility and freedom. But mothers with children over 10-12 are actually MORE productive in the workplace than women without kids. And when your kid is a teen you can travel without them. Same as when they’re in college or completely grown adults. Kids don’t stay 3 for forever.

      Reply Link
    • avatar

      Christy January 31, 2014, 2:24 pm

      It’s totally a troll article, and I really hate those.

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:26 pm

        And the 400th of its kind.

        Link
      • avatar

        jlyfsh January 31, 2014, 2:26 pm

        yeah they make me twitchy. why can’t we be nicer to each other?

        Link
      • avatar

        Taylor February 2, 2014, 10:52 pm

        Seriously! This –> It’s because women secretly like to talk about how hard managing a household is so they don’t have to explain their lack of real accomplishments. <– had me sputtering in indignation. I'm on week 6 of being home with my new baby, which I love, and I have a lot of help, and right now it is way harder than most anything I've done at my job (and my job isn't easy).

        Link
  • coconot

    coconot January 31, 2014, 2:16 pm

    So far I have only read the : “I Look Down On Young Women With Husbands And Kids And I’m Not Sorry” click-bait article (12K+ comments!), but all these articles on what women can and can’t do make me wonder. Hear out my hypothesis (totally unproven/uncited but maybe still true):

    1) I suspect women read such articles/think about such topics way more than men
    2) There are way more articles of the type “(some) women can’t do X” than “men can’t do Y”, probably in part because of 1
    3) I think women tend to internalize what others say more than men do

    Could this mean that the presence of such articles actually creates a self-fulfilling situation where the presence of such articles and conversations around them are actually either stagnating or even negating women’s progress towards being able to overcome these things that “(certain types of) women can’t do”?

    Reply Link
    • Miel

      Miel January 31, 2014, 2:26 pm

      I really think there’s some truth in what you said. In my case I don’t think it was about a parenting topic but sometimes I’ll be all upset and talk to my boyfriend about “women are expected to do this and it’s so unfair” or “Everybody look down on me when I express X opinion so now I will keep my mouth shut” and my boyfriend is always “but WHO said that ? Thought catalog ? Are you really going to change who you are because of some random hispter bitching on Thought catalog ?”

      And he’s right, I really shouldn’t change who I am, or what I want to become because of anything of xojane or buzzfeed or whatever. But the urge is there ! Because when you read the same thing 20 times, you begin to think it’s right !

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:31 pm

        I like your boyfriend!

        Link
      • coconot

        coconot January 31, 2014, 2:34 pm

        Yeah like it becomes subconcious because you see it all over and your friends see it all over, and then eventually you forgot you originally saw it on TC/buzzfeed and you take it as the truth. I have actually seen a research article somewhere that in the long term we take as truth things we read multiple times in the past even if we were suspicious at first. Human brains are weird…

        Link
    • avatar

      starpattern January 31, 2014, 3:15 pm

      YES! Specifically #1, and I think #3 is definitely exacerbated by #1. A lot of us are just so immersed in it.

      Reply Link
    • avatar

      Banana January 31, 2014, 4:38 pm

      Yes, I totally think articles like this create a self-fulfilling prophesy. On the flip side, I wrote in another comment further down: when I told one of my friends about my promotion, the first words out of her mouth were “I should throw you a party!” I don’t think she even meant it as a political statement (like, “Let’s make promotion parties a thing”), I think she just said it because she’s a kind person and genuinely wanted to celebrate. But I think it highlights the fact that maybe the celebration of those achievements in women ISN’T as horribly rare as the writer claims? And that we’re all just swallowing that line because we’ve heard it so many times. But I bet each of us could think of a time when they threw a party for a female friend, or a friend threw a party for them, to celebrate a non-family, non-romance achievement. Maybe it was a happy hour to celebrate a new job or a housewarming party when someone moved into that swanky new apartment she could afford on her higher salary, or a welcome home celebration when someone returned from her fellowship abroad, but…I don’t think those celebrations are non-existent. Writing articles about how we should make them a thing is only perpetuating the belief that they aren’t a thing already, and kind of setting it all a step back.

      Reply Link
  • Fabelle

    Fabelle January 31, 2014, 2:20 pm

    Ooh, I like the happiest relationship according to science one, & am interested what everyone thinks about each one on the list. Some seem kind of arbitrary, but then the explanations below make it make sense?

    Also, I’m happy to see the “fighting at first but not anymore” one, because Fabello & I *did* fight a lot towards the beginning, but they were productive fights? Obviously, couples can have, as the article says, “honest but angry” conversations without FIGHTING, but he & I both get yell-y, so they were def fights yeah, haha

    OH & he’s a first born, & I’m the youngest. I see that combo play out a lot in my close friendships, too (although I think there’s a little…or, a lot.. of an “only child” in my personality, since my closest-in-age & only sibling is much older)

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      Christy January 31, 2014, 2:29 pm

      Right, gf and I had honest but angry conversations over the first 1.75 years, but as I’ve said before, we aren’t yellers. Productive fights = good.

      Reply Link
    • GatorGirl

      GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 2:36 pm

      I was totally curious so

      We “follow”: Childless, Married (or not), Equal contribution, Not into online gaming, A lot alike, Equally thrifty, “Very” sexually active (which they don’t really define), Well rested, College Educated, Not bored, Similar sense of humor, Happy for each other, same level of drinking. (13)
      We don’t “follow”: Not big on texting, Not fighting any more (we’ve never been big fighters), We’re both the oldest (but I have more only child tendencies due to 8 years as such), Overlapping Facebook friends, Took it slow (ha), Surrounded by divorce (6)

      I skipped some of the dumb ones like Oscar winners. Oh and I have no idea who is cuter because I think he is and he says he thinks I am.

      I think it’s a crap shoot anyways.

      Reply Link
    • paperheart

      paperheart January 31, 2014, 8:00 pm

      Along the lines of the first born and youngest thing, B and I struggled with that in our relationship for a while. (Well actually, I’m probably the only one who was struggling. Haha) And honestly still do sometimes. He’s the youngest/only child, (He has a half brother and sister, but he didn’t grow up with them. He’s also the youngest of all his cousins by a few years) and I’m the oldest by far out of my sisters/cousins. I tend to be more of a “caretaker” and also tend to be accidentally bossy sometimes. He tends to be a little selfish sometimes, and also didn’t used to really stand up to my bossiness. (which we’ve worked out a little bit. It used to drive me nuts when he’d bring up something I was bossy about like a week later, and I’d be like “well why didn’t you sayyy something??” But he’s gotten alot better at pointing things out in the moment instead of way later.) The oldest/youngest thing REALLY comes into play when we’re with his family, though. In my family, I’m used to being treated like one of the adults, but in his family he’s the baby, so I feel like I have to try harder to “prove” my maturity to them. I’ve always wondered if other people struggle with this as badly as I seem to. haha. (Sorry if I got completely off topic.)

      Reply Link
  • avatar

    lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:22 pm

    Ha, I love the “if I can’t accept you at your worst, stop being so horrible.”
    I feel like the original line has gotten out of control. People use it as excuses for forcing their partner to put up with you being a total bitch.
    Reminds me of a line my mom used on me as a teenager – “Just because I love you doesn’t mean I like you right now.”

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      kerrycontrary January 31, 2014, 2:29 pm

      UGH yesss. It’s like the women who say “I’m a bitch but I own it”. Um, owning up to your horrible behavior does not mean its socially acceptable or anyone will like you for it. And that women who are bitches but don’t admit it are somehow below them?

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:31 pm

        Haha, perfect comparison. Owning and x-shaming are beginning to be my most hated words.

        Link
      • avatar

        Jiggs January 31, 2014, 2:45 pm

        I feel like I need to comment on the “I’m a bitch and I own it” thing because I am one of those women. I am not a terrible person who is mean to people, but I am assertive and driven, and those traits on women often lead to a diagnosis of “bitch”. I don’t think men get the same blowback for those traits; a tough guy boss is “tough but fair”, a woman boss who asks you to stop dicking around and meet your deadlines is a “bitch”. So that’s why I “own” the word bitch, so no one can say it to me like I’m supposed to feel bad about being direct or assertive. Or for not returning their catcall with enthusiasm. Or whatever other thousands of things make me a bitch and a man totally reasonable.

        There were these people at my office who used “aggressive go-getter” as a code-phrase for “bitch” . (Also they were women! Way to suck, ladies.) I think that was around the time I decided not to give a flying fuck and I would just be a bitch. Give the people what they want! In the meantime I give no fucks, I make friends with positive people, and I rock my job my way.

        Obviously it should not be an excuse for literally being a terrible human being, but I feel it’s overall a positive thing to take back a word that is mostly used as a euphemism for “why aren’t you doing/acting like I want you to?!” or, in the workplace, “why do you want me to do my job?!”

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 2:49 pm

        i think you are thinking of a different meaning of “bitch”. in the professional world, being a bitch and owning it is amazing… i call my director a bitch all the time. and she does own it, its great. i hope to be just as awesome of a bitch as her someday. i take bitch lessons from her. (ha, how many times can i use that word??)

        i think above they are talking more about the “being a horrible person” definition of bitch.

        Link
    • avatar

      csp January 31, 2014, 4:04 pm

      So In the earlier part of this article, he was talking about participation trophies. It made me think is it better to gauge you against your peers or against your personal best? Like, I ran a half marathon. I did not win, in fact, I believe I came in at number 10k out of 18k people. I was really proud even if I wasn’t exceptional. I framed the medal I got for completing it. It was a personal best. I think participation trophies get a bad name.

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 4:09 pm

        I feel like earning your first 5k is different than simply participating in a child sport that your parents signed you up for though. Finishing your first 5K (or similar event) is a big achievement. Showing up for little league isn’t really.

        Link
      • avatar

        csp January 31, 2014, 4:43 pm

        Right, there is showing up but I imagine, there is skill improvement as well. Like, we call little kid soccer magnet ball because all the kids just run after the ball. But there is improvement year over year and isn’t that an accomplishment?

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 4:50 pm

        I guess. I mean, in all honesty, I have trouble with NOT making a kid feel accomplished. You show me a shitty snowman picture, I’ll say its the greatest piece of art ever and promptly frame it and take you out to dinner for your hard work in drawing 3 wannabe circles barely lining up on top of each other. Peter? I’ll be standing behind Lil with a sign that says ‘ITS A SNOWMAN!!!’ and he’ll actually critique the circles and say you should really try lining them up better next time because I can’t really discern what this blob is supposed to be. I guess it evens out. Hopefully.

        Link
      • avatar

        AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 4:57 pm

        Hahahahahahaha magnet ball. My dad explained it like peanut butter when he was a soccer coach. “Stop being like peanut butter!! Be more like jelly, spread out don’t stick together!!”

        Link
      • GatorGirl

        GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 4:12 pm

        I think participation trophies are bullshit. Sorry, but I do. Your mom managed to drop you off at T-ball at the correct place and time each week so you get a medal? Sorry, but no. Now, if you work HARD, train, and accomplish a goal (like say, running a half marathon); yes frame your medal! Participation trophies encourage people to strive for mediocrity. (All in my opinion of course.)

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 4:19 pm

        Agreed. Now, if you were to offer a free tote bag for T-ball participation, then I am all for it. Everyone loves a free tote.

        Link
      • GatorGirl

        GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 4:25 pm

        We used to get the coolest t-shirts in kiddy sports. That should be your “prize” or what ever. You get to keep the shirt. (Goodness I’m in a sour mood at the moment!)

        Link
      • avatar

        Jessibel5 January 31, 2014, 4:46 pm

        When I was a kid, we got duffle bags for Little League. They were awesome, because you could use them the next year for your gear.

        Also, where dafuq did the word “duffle” come from?!

        Link
      • avatar

        csp January 31, 2014, 4:46 pm

        I think that they show that they put forth effort. I also should clarify that I think participation trophies should end in 3rd grade. So when a kid is 4, they get a trophy and learn what it means to play and the rewards. I don’t think people get participation trophies after elementary school, do they?

        Link
      • GatorGirl

        GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 4:51 pm

        Isn’t the reward the knowledge? Or your parents and coaches praise? I’m also just against giving out copious amounts of junk that will be thrown away at a later date. There is too much trash in the world.

        Give the kid a cookie or something if a physical thing needs to be given to symbolize their growth or what ever. Sorry if I’m being rude, but this concept is mind blowing to me. You don’t get a ribbon when you learn to write your name (unless that’s a thing now…which wouldn’t surprise me)? So why for showing up to soccer? I mean learning to write your name is about 6,000 times more important.

        Link
  • katie

    katie January 31, 2014, 2:32 pm

    i found the “i look down on women with kids and a husband” one- its a doozy, huh?

    there are some things that i do honestly like from it -sorry im not sorry

    “Men don’t care to “manage a household.” They aren’t conditioned to think stupid things like that are “important.” –this is so true. men dont even KNOW half of the time what it takes to manage a household. case in point, my home right now (ive been home one week this year so far) and bethany’s latest forum post.

    and this, which is from the other article that is linked in that one- “Because, when men fall in love, they get a wife. When women fall in love they get a husband. Despite idealism, the reality of these two paths is very disparate. For men, falling in love is an asset, for women it is a sentence to hard labor. I have no interest in marrying a woman, but I would love to have a wife. They cook and clean for you, remind you when it’s your mother’s birthday, and shoulder all the biggest burdens when it comes to raising kids. Hell, my ideal relationship would be if my husband and I could have a wife so we could both be supported without having to deal with all that minutiae ourselves.” –that is eye opening to me. i DO want a wife, that would be epic. but no, all that “wife stuff” is on me because im a woman. becoming a wife has certain images and expectations and everything, becoming a husband has…. nothing attached to it. thats so shitty.

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      jlyfsh January 31, 2014, 2:36 pm

      I kind of feel like any good thoughts she had in the article were lost in the nasty tone she took towards other women. We don’t need to attack each other to deal with the issues we face. When we do that we make overcoming obstacles that society puts on us that much harder because not only are we fighting that but each other too.

      Reply Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 2:41 pm

        yea, i dont like the piece or even agree with it, but i dont need everything to be a nice tone for me to get something out of it. i think there are some very interesting and thought provoking thoughts on equality in both articles

        Link
      • avatar

        jlyfsh January 31, 2014, 2:43 pm

        I guess I just kind of think if you want to make an effect on a large scale attacking other women isn’t going to really make any headway. People are going to lose any positive thoughts you’re putting out there because they won’t be able to see past your nastiness. I don’t know I feel like that part wasn’t necessary it did nothing except discredit her and her thoughts in my opinion.

        Link
      • muchachaenlaventana

        muchachaenlaventana January 31, 2014, 2:43 pm

        yeah my problem is she came off as such a mean person. there have been other trolly articles that follow this same stupid theme but this was just over the top. I think its because of the completely objective value judgement she places on things “getting married is a stupid accomplishment anyone can do it” “doing laundry is never the same as being a doctor” etc. etc. Just get a life, people like this lack so much self-awareness I am torn between feeling utter pity for them, and wanting to smack them upside the head.

        Link
    • coconot

      coconot January 31, 2014, 2:37 pm

      Yes but the sad part is it’s not enough for us as wives/potential wives to not believe it. Future/current husbands should believe it too, and if crap like this is overly propagated some men will just continue to think it’s the norm and okay. I say we follow Sheryl Sandberg’s advice and ONLY marry equal partners. Completely irrelevant whether you are SAHM or a CEO or anything else, I think everyone deserves an equal partner (in whatever way they decide that means) and shouldn’t settle for less.

      Reply Link
      • coconot

        coconot January 31, 2014, 2:39 pm

        Also, I feel like the article kind of glossed over non-traditional and same sex relationships just to be able to rag better on women. So annoying. Not that I really want her perspective on polygamists or lesbians or anyone else… I wonder if she actually feels this way or is just being purposefully incendiary to get extra clicks.

        Link
      • coconot

        coconot January 31, 2014, 2:40 pm

        Also, I feel like the article kind of glossed over non-traditional and same sex relationships just to be able to rag better on women. So annoying. Not that I really want her perspective on polygamists or lesbians or anyone else. I wonder if she actually feels this way or is just being purposefully incendiary to get extra clicks.

        Link
    • avatar

      lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:39 pm

      I realize I’m being that person sharing 1 example of 1 time that “discredits” your generalization, so sorry. But I think some men at least know its a lot of work and that its important, but they just don’t help.
      Anyway, I do think we are getting away from all of that. At least, I think some people are. Peter is much more a wife than me, and likes that. And the things I do around the house he seems to think are important and hard. You only have to have all the wife stuff land on your shoulders if you allow it to.
      For generalization sake, men would argue they have to be the breadwinners probably.

      Reply Link
      • coconot

        coconot January 31, 2014, 2:43 pm

        I actually think everyone ends up being less stressed when they don’t have full responsibility for something. Being the sole breadwinner is really stressful, especially with more than one other person to support. Being the sole caretaker is also really stressful! I think it’s personally nice to have balance between both, but equality could be one person doing all the housework/childcare and another person working. The important part is that both people see themselves as contributing equally.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 2:45 pm

        i dont disagree, and men = breadwinners is just as bad, and just as damaging to both sexes.

        i hope that men are getting better at it, in general? one of sandberg’s great points in lean in was that we have “raised” women up so that they can work and lead and whatever, but we never pulled men “down” (and i dont like the raise/pulled down analogy, but….) to be able to help out with a household, and thats a big problem. i do hope its changing though. i mean jake cooks, right? lol

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:56 pm

        Yea, I was surprised you think its always like this still knowing how Jake is and how you are. I definitely see the change happening.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 3:05 pm

        well jake cooks but thats it- i still do pretty much all the cleaning. he angry cleans after we have a fight about cleaning. i do stuff like the birthday things- but i refuse to most of the time and if he misses one im like “well, its your family. sorry you forgot!”. he consistently asks me if ill just sign his name in cards too- which is so dumb to me. ect. so…. yea. i mean i try to have a very equal relationship, of course, i pretty much demand it, but its very hard to break patterns that have been his life forever, which is of the “traditional” home. his mom actually gave up a wonderful, high earning, high ranking job at a bank to become a lunch lady so she could help more with her husbands kids. she has been a mother and a homemaker since she was 19 i think…

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:13 pm

        But you’re choosing to do all of the work you do. You could choose to not (which I guess you are saying you do do by refusing sometimes) Idk. Peter’s mom is very much like Jake’s and he is still what I think is a complete equal. He does what’s traditionally women’s work. I think if women just refused to accept anything but that equal in a partner, they can and will find an equal partner (or at least damn close to it). I guess I just don’t think that Peter is some special snowflake of a man.

        Link
      • avatar

        AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 3:16 pm

        “I think if women just refused to accept anything but that equal in a partner, they can and will find an equal partner.”

        Hallelujah.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 3:18 pm

        i hope he isnt either! and i do think things are changing, absolutely. but were still not there yet. and, i think that the idea of “i wish I, as a woman, could have a wife too!” is a very thought provoking thing, and a very interesting way to present that idea.

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:20 pm

        I think that’s just saying you wish you had a maid and a housekeeper and a personal assistant all in one…which really is just perpetuating the idea of what a wife/woman is supposed to be. I joke about that all the time too though.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 3:31 pm

        see to me its saying, “i wish that i could truly attain the life of a typical male in our society”, because like i said, the data does show that this still isnt the case. its still not equal. and truthfully, when i first read that i was like “oh my god the things i could DO if i actually had a wife” lol

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:43 pm

        Its still a choice though. Sure, our society might still operate that way, but that doesn’t mean you have to.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 3:52 pm

        well, then you get into the whole debate of is something that is informed by culture IS actually a choice. i dont think it is, personally, a huge percent of the time.

        you know what is interesting, too? “womens work” has, at various points in our history (recent history in the USA) been taken on by different people to elevate it into important, needed, appreciated, and sometimes even paid work. there were these people (mostly women, but not all), who created all these systems so that a household could be equal. one was these ‘apartment house’ things where the people who lived there didnt do any type of home-related chore. cooking, cleaning, laundry, ect was all done by paid workers in the apartment home. so the home wouldnt be a battleground of a time-suck, and each member of the partnership would be able to pursue whatever things they wanted. other people thought that women should just be outright paid for the work they did in the house. so its not like this idea is even a new or revolutionary one, actually.

        also, did you know the first women who studied chemistry at MIT had to do so under the cover of “researching how to clean”? yep.

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:58 pm

        I’m too tired to even read that, let alone reply, haha. I stand by my opinion though and don’t think it has to have anything to do with history or data or anything like that. If you refuse to accept anything but equality in a mate, you can have that too. If you refuse to accept anything but a man who will do traditional “women’s work,” you can have that too. Living by data is bullshit (not that you are). Decide what you want for you and go get it. Its really that easy. I’m not going to settle for something I don’t want because my culture says I have to. (and again, I definitely do not think I’m some special snowflake)

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 4:00 pm

        Shit, culture/society/data told me I should be on welfare, never have $, never be able to go to college, etc. So you ignore that and keep going toward what you want. I think that can absolutely be applied to significant others too.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 3:19 pm

        oh and also, he probably is more of a special snowflake then you think, maybe? i mean all the data shows that women still do all or a large chunk of the housework, stay at home or working or whatever. thats still whats happening.

        Link
      • avatar

        lemongrass January 31, 2014, 3:42 pm

        I think in my household changing what I thought of as equal really helped. Sure, Mr. Grass doesn’t do 50% of the household chores but he does 90% of the yard work and 10% of the household chores. And 50% of the childcare, he’s playing with E right now while I hide in our spare bedroom with my lunch haha. I do think that he is exceptional but it is a more equal kind of marriage even if he doesn’t clean bathrooms because I don’t want to clean gutters either.

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:44 pm

        I know a lot of special snowflakes then, honestly.

        Link
    • Miel

      Miel January 31, 2014, 2:56 pm

      “For men, falling in love is an asset, for women it is a sentence to hard labor. I have no interest in marrying a woman, but I would love to have a wife. They cook and clean for you, remind you when it’s your mother’s birthday, and shoulder all the biggest burdens when it comes to raising kids.”

      Is it really a burden for women to get a husband ? Don’t we forget that in today’s society, MOST women actually find a happy match in the person of their husband ? Sure, let’s say you are the one cooking. But maybe he’s the one doing the dishes ! Maybe you’re the one cleaning the counter top, but he’s mowing the lawn ! And this is not only about house-work, or raising kids, it’s about “what do each person gets out of a marriage ?” In my relationship, I found a friend, someone I can trust, someone who takes care of me when I feel bad, someone who picks me up at the airport and visit me on the weekend, someone who invites me to the restaurant or give me back massage. It’s not “a sentence to hard labor”. It’s a great relationship for both of us !

      Nobody will convince me that a smart sensible woman would never be able to find a smart sensible man for both of them to be happy and treated as equal. I mean…

      Reply Link
      • GatorGirl

        GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 3:05 pm

        That’s the part I took issue with too. If it really was THAT crappy for women to get married, why is it such a BFD that “we” all desperately want? Surely there are lots of other fulfilling things you get with a husband. And honestly, I do less now that I have a husband (and live with him). I no longer have to take out the trash, handle raw meat, clean the toilet, investigate bumps in the night, hang clean clothes- all things I hate doing, he does! (I know they are pretty stereotypical “male” things, but that’s how it worked for us.) I do less now that he is doing half of the household stuff.

        Link
      • avatar

        Simonthegrey January 31, 2014, 9:51 pm

        When my mom married my dad, she kinda got a wife. My father cooks better (mom doesn’t enjoy it as much as he does), does all the vacuuming, cleans the bathrooms, does the laundry, irons, and mends rips. In return Dad got someone who balances the checkbook, keeps up with the money matters, does the needed shopping, and keeps an eye on car and house maintenance. In my marriage, I cook because I love it since my dad taught me. My husband takes out the trash, and vacuums when I ask. We don’t clean the bathrooms unless it gets bad, and then we flip for it. Whoever notices that the dishes are taking over will wash them. I earn more than him, but within a couple years, he will probably out-earn me. I traveled in my 20s overseas, did what I wanted to do. In my 30s, I’m ready to settle down. I have already been extraordinary; why can’t my husband and I be extraordinary together.

        Link
    • avatar

      rieux January 31, 2014, 2:57 pm

      I think she’s right that feminism isn’t about validating women’s choices. That’s stupid. That’s just chauvinism.

      But she goes in the exact wrong direction from there, which is to just start talking derisively about women who do women’s work, instead of talking derisively about whatever stupid assumptions are out there that make all of it still tacitly become “women’s work.” For one thing, plenty of women with kids DO achieve plenty of stuff.

      This reminds me of an interview I saw with Sonia Sotomayor. She came to speak with the female dean of a college and the woman actually had the gall to say to her, “So, there’s this myth” (literally she said this, she called it a myth) “that women can ‘have it all’, be at the top of their careers and also have a family and kids. What do you think of that?” And it was like, uh… she’s a Supreme Court Justice, so other than Roberts she is literally at the top of her profession and can’t go any further. So you’re either saying that she must be a terrible mother, or you’re just actually SO STUPID that you are clinging to calling it a “myth” when Sonia Sotomayor is sitting in front of you proving that it is possible. Ugh. And I think that’s where the author goes wrong. She doesn’t say “Hey, let’s throw off the shackles that make us feel that we have to be perfect helicopter mothers and ruin our careers for our kids,” or “Hey, let’s fucking demand more from our husbands.” She goes for trashing women.

      I agree with her that showers are insufferable, though.

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 3:01 pm

        Yes to your comment about “women’s work.” She essentially said household work is meaningless, when instead I think we need to value the work it takes to run a household and then have both genders do their part.

        Link
      • katie

        katie January 31, 2014, 3:06 pm

        yes, absolutely.

        Link
  • avatar

    Sansa January 31, 2014, 2:45 pm

    Honestly, as for college graduates lacking work ethic, I kind of agree. It’s not about the books or the degrees, it’s about experience.

    I’m looking for a new job in accounting, I have my masters in accounting and about seven years experience. Senior accountant jobs prefer a CPA, I’m working on that, and one even required the masters with the CPA as well as experience.

    Not to mention the entry level jobs that I’ve seen (I’ve bypassed these due to my experience). These are looking for a four year bachelors degree and 1-2 years accounting experience.

    Keep your chin up, and for the love of God, if you’re still in school, pick up an internship. I did three part time jobs during my senior year which led to an accounting internship after graduation which ended up at full time status.

    Stand out from the crowd.

    Reply Link
    • coconot

      coconot January 31, 2014, 2:57 pm

      I agree that it helps individuals to get internships/job prep. From a global perspective though, this whole lack of experience thing is a little crazy. Were people so much more ‘experienced’ in their first job 20 years ago? Were the same hiring managers/bosses who are complaining now actually so much more experienced? Somehow I kind of doubt it. It may be true that people are now older in their first job, because more people get college and post grad education, but it can’t be true that people starting their first job have much less experience than they used to. That would go against the definition of “first” job.

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        Banana January 31, 2014, 4:16 pm

        The dirty truth of experience requirements is they’re mostly there to weed out obviously bad candidates at the very beginning. Many hiring managers can make exceptions for candidates who demonstrate ability. I’m not saying that an entry-level candidate can land a job that requires 10 years of experience…but I did walk into my first job as an entry-level candidate and it required 1 – 2 years production experience. I got it because I demonstrated I had that level of ability. So in that sense I think the years of experience thing is a smokescreen. I don’t think that’s what’s ACTUALLY holding millennials back as much as the lack of ability. As frustrating as job hunting gets, try to remember that hiring managers are not evil villains who are just looking for ways to mess with people — they want to hire someone just as much as you want to be hired. But sometimes having the wrong employee is worse than having no employee at all.

        Link
  • avatar

    AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 2:54 pm

    Ugh, ugh the article. I have so many FEELZ. You know which one I’m talking about. The one where I can’t be exceptional and have meaningful relationships with other people. You know what? I certainly can’t be exceptional like this woman… I can’t be exceptionally judgemental of other people’s choices. I can’t be exceptionally callous and narrow-minded. Sorry.

    But I can be exceptionally generous, and kind, and smart. I can have an exceptional life full of exceptional people and make exceptional contributions to the world. You can have a small life that is much more meaningful than backpacking through asia and having a corner office. You can value other things, sometimes even intangible things. I enjoy being a part of a partnership, it helps me be more exceptional. I think you can even have cats, or puppy-children, or even human children and still be exceptional. It just means you have to find someone else who is willing to opt out of the narrow viewfinder this author has of the world.

    PS If you are SO EXCEPTIONAL why don’t you just hire an apparent non-exceptional female housekeeper to do your EXCEPTIONAL laundry for you and your non-exceptional husband. Because only non exceptional people are tied down to doing inconsequential things like chores.

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 2:58 pm

      Its bugging me that these writers who write for click bait (learned that phrase on here today!) get anything. First of all, we get it, you’re inflammatory and would never have the balls to say any of that to someone’s face. Second, the same fucking article has already been written. At least come up with something new or original. Its just all lame and annoying now.
      It just tells me you suck at writing if you have to write such crap in order to get anyone to read it.

      Reply Link
    • avatar

      jlyfsh January 31, 2014, 2:59 pm

      yes! you can do laundry and then go perform open heart surgery. or not, you can go sell your canned tomatoes at the farmer’s market and play at the pond instead. whatever your definition of exceptional is, is fine.

      Reply Link
      • muchachaenlaventana

        muchachaenlaventana January 31, 2014, 3:18 pm

        also who the f is doing this person’s laundry. I am neither married nor do I have children, have a full time job and still do my own laundry…Like some things are just part of being a normal living human being. In no way is the burden of my laundry keeping me from you know, being successful. I really don’t think that will change when/if I get married or have kids. I don’t want to attack her intelligence level, but a lot of the comparisons she makes are just nonsensical.

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:21 pm

        Yea, I laughed at the laundry/doctor thing. I know a handful of doctors personally and they do their laundry still. Even a few surgeons. Give me a break.

        Link
      • avatar

        Banana January 31, 2014, 4:07 pm

        The burden of laundry keeps me from being successful. I think about it all the time. My dirty socks haunt me. Sometimes in presentations I can’t complete a sentence because I just recalled that I only change my sheets biweekly. One time, I crossed out all my progress on a post-conference report and just wrote “I’VE WORN THESE PANTS FOR FOUR WEEKS” across it and handed it to my CFO.

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 4:10 pm

        I literally just LOL’d. That might be the funniest thing I’ve ever read.

        Link
      • avatar

        Banana January 31, 2014, 4:18 pm

        MY LIFE IS A JOKE TO YOU

        Link
      • avatar

        lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 4:28 pm

        So I copied and pasted your comment (lest I out DW) onto Word and shared it with all my female coworkers after giving them a summary of what you were replying to.

        Link
      • avatar

        Banana January 31, 2014, 4:32 pm

        I feel famous!

        Link
  • avatar

    starpattern January 31, 2014, 3:27 pm

    Yeah, yeah, that TC article. I am so exhausted with this attitude. I work with a lot of really, uh, MOTIVATED types. And while I am proud of what I do and admittedly sometimes I get to feeling a little full of myself, I think it’s really gross when other young women I work with say shit like, “I can’t wait to go to my high school reunion, so I can be like oh you have 12 kids? Well I’m a rocket scientist!” Like, someone I know has actually said that and it makes me want to vomit. People can just be so smug about it (on BOTH sides for sure – young moms and young not-moms) and I’m so frustrated it’s like that. Just do what makes you happy and don’t be a jerk about it. Geez!!

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      Matcha January 31, 2014, 6:14 pm

      Re: That quote. BLEH!

      Even assuming … you know, that everyone in your high school had the same opportunities and financial ability to go to college (mine certainly didn’t) choosing to thumb your nose at people who chose a different path in life is rude. Being condescending isn’t attractive.

      Reply Link
  • avatar

    lemongrass January 31, 2014, 3:51 pm

    I just can’t even get into how that article makes me angry. Beyond that, what she wants every woman to have a white collar job? Does she not realize that model is completely unsustainable? Sure you can judge me for being a stay at home mom because you get paid for what you do but guess what biznatch? I probably have more equity than you because I had no student loans and I saved everything I made during the years you were in school. Don’t see me bragging about it or judging you because I have the intelligence to know that everyone chooses a different path in life and it isn’t what is “better” it is what is “right” for every individual. My success in life doesn’t come with a promotion, it comes with being happy. Every day I am happy, I know that I am right where I want to be. I don’t want to quit my job, I don’t want to cry in the bathroom, I don’t want to tell off my boss. I have my dream job and if you can’t see the value in being a mother then I feel sorry for you because you have a small mind and no college degree will change that.

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      lets_be_honest January 31, 2014, 3:54 pm

      True success is happiness and I’m glad you have it.

      Reply Link
    • theattack

      theattack January 31, 2014, 4:24 pm

      Perfect response, lemongrass. I feel like I don’t even want to validate that article with a real response, but yours was perfect. I just can’t imagine how or why someone would think that every woman’s extraordinary has to look the same.

      Reply Link
  • avatar

    bethany January 31, 2014, 3:54 pm

    This has nothing to do with the Friday links, but fuck it. I’m tired, I’m annoyed (someone hit our car today!!) and I am so bored that the simple task of reading everything you guys have written has proved to be to difficult for me. And reading all the links is out of the question, too.

    I need to to be beer o’clock, STAT!

    Reply Link
  • avatar

    Banana January 31, 2014, 4:00 pm

    A comment that’s not on the Thought Catalog article!

    So about that employability of millenials article…I get so annoyed when people talk about hard skills and soft skills as if they’re mutually exclusive. I know that when you ask people to rank them, you’ll inevitably get a result that shows people preferring one over the other, but I think the takeaway is that you have NOTHING TO LOSE from trying to cultivate both. I went to a liberal arts school and got a well-rounded education that gave me many soft skills, but I also did a major that imparted some high-demand hard skills too (video production). I can say with confidence that’s the single biggest reason why I didn’t experience prolonged joblessness after graduation, and why I haven’t been unemployed since. Even if I were fired tomorrow, I have several high-paying freelance video clients in my back pocket that I can call up whenever I need the work. I’m really starting to think that the whole hard skills vs soft skills argument is turning a little bit into the mommy wars — an inconclusive, circular argument that doesn’t produce anything but negative judgments for everyone. How about the idea that everyone could probably benefit from a good mix of hard skills and soft skills? What I think winds up happening is liberal arts majors start feeling threatened whenever someone recommends they learn a hard skill, but I don’t think it always has to mean we should all stop learning soft skills at the same time. It’s just common sense — you’ll be more attractive to an employer if you know how to DO something. End of story.

    Reply Link
  • avatar

    bethany January 31, 2014, 4:05 pm

    Ew. I just read that “I Look down…” article, and it’s gross.

    What’s even grosser is this bit: “I want to have a shower for a woman when she backpacks on her own through Asia, gets a promotion, or lands a dream job not when she stays inside the box and does the house and kids thing which is the path of least resistance.”

    How much do you want to be that the author has known someone who has done all those things but never had a shower for them? I feel like for the author to have any credibility she needs to have at least thrown a shower for her friend who backpacked through Asia or whatever. Or at least throw a Samantha Jones style “I’m not having a baby shower”.

    Reply Link
    • GatorGirl

      GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 4:22 pm

      I love this. And I would bet it’s true.

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        bethany January 31, 2014, 4:32 pm

        It reminds me of those assholes who protest outside Planned Parenthood about baby killing who have probably NEVER adopted or fostered an unwanted child. It’s like, dude, if you care so much about unwanted kids, maybe you should be volunteering with underprivileged kids instead of standing here with a sign.
        (disclaimer– I know some pro-choice protesters DO adopt/foster/volunteer, and I think that’s great, but I’d put money on a lot of them doing nothing but spewing hate and holding up signs)

        Link
      • GatorGirl

        GatorGirl January 31, 2014, 4:34 pm

        For reals. Actions speak WAY louder than words.

        Link
      • theattack

        theattack January 31, 2014, 4:34 pm

        Omg that infuriates me more than anything else. I want to punch those people with a brick.

        Link
    • avatar

      Banana January 31, 2014, 4:30 pm

      Amen to that. Of course she wouldn’t throw one of her friends a shower for getting a promotion — that wouldn’t be all about her, would it? Meanwhile, the very first words out of one of my friends’ mouth when she heard I’d been promoted was, “I should throw you a party!”

      So, yeah, it happens. And it’s great! But why not focus more on DOING it instead of complaining about its absence?

      I also read a great rebuttal blog post that said, “Women have been carrying things on their back while walking across Asia for centuries…that doesn’t sound exceptional. In fact, for many Asian women, it’s quite average.” It’s so fucking condescending to other cultures to be like, “I just enhanced my life so much by observing your shitty life during my short vacation from affluence!” I’m all for visiting other countries and expanding your horizons by exposing yourself to all sorts of different cultures — but please for the love of God don’t use an entire CONTINENT of individuals as a prop in your story of My Awesomeness. Wouldn’t it be great if we saw travel sort of like learning to ride a bike — just a part of growing up and becoming an adult, but not something you should be feted for?

      Reply Link
      • avatar

        AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 5:02 pm

        Hehehe this:

        I hate all the “traveling is the only way to find yourself.”

        Link
      • avatar

        Banana January 31, 2014, 5:22 pm

        Hahaha, I saw that going around FB!

        That stuff irritates the heck out of me…because I HAVE traveled a lot, and seen places that have a dramatically different quality of life than what I’m used to. It was humbling. It taught me how much I don’t know, and that’s a lesson I need to hear a lot more often. So whenever I see someone who returns from international travel with the opposite of humbleness — with that sort of braggy, now I’m so much more enlightened and worldly than you attitude, I just think they entirely missed the point.

        Link
      • muchachaenlaventana

        muchachaenlaventana January 31, 2014, 5:42 pm

        hate that so much myself. i seriously just want to punch them.

        Link
      • Fabelle

        Fabelle January 31, 2014, 5:30 pm

        Oh, oh, this too: http://the-toast.net/2013/09/03/the-celebrity-goes-to-africa/

        It’s celebrity centered (obvi) but the idea is the same, haha.

        Link
    • avatar

      Matcha January 31, 2014, 6:15 pm

      Pretty sure the author is just talking about her own accomplishments. I guarantee it.

      Reply Link
  • Miel

    Miel January 31, 2014, 4:54 pm

    We’re down in the comment section, so maybe people don’t care that far down. Whatever, I’ll just throw it out there.

    About that “Looking down” article : Why don’t we just try to become our better selves ? I feel like ultimately, if you want to be a happy person, to give back to the people around you and generally to make society a better place, you should try to be your better self. That’s a really complicated task, that requires a lot of things, but it’s also a good guidance. I believe that some people will be their better selves by having children, others by staying childless. Some will be their better selves by being religious, others by being atheist. Some people will give back to their society the most by becoming a good physician, others is by becoming a good mechanic. I mean… why would you force someone to become a physician if that’s not the way for them to be their better selves ? You want them to hate being a physician and treat their patients like crap ? Or you want a parent to mistreat their kid because they always wanted to stay childless ?

    You want what’s best for you, for you to be a better person. Maybe that means having kids AND being a neurologist AND having a husband. Maybe that means not having kids and growing tomatoes in the country side with your best friend. Maybe that means being in a relationship with someone of the same sex as you. Maybe that means being a stay at home mom. Maybe that means backpacking to Asia. It’s different for everybody ! Do what makes YOU your best self, not what other people think your best self should be.

    Alright, next time I’ll write a motivational life-coaching book about it.

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      AliceInDairyland January 31, 2014, 5:03 pm

      Okay thanks, this was a much more beautiful and concise way of saying what I wanted to say.

      Reply Link
  • avatar

    csp January 31, 2014, 4:59 pm

    So I have a question that I am hoping someone can answer for me. The top article made me think of it. So with Stay at home moms and teachers, I feel like there is a ton of “proving how hard they work” online. There are memes and comments on the worth of Mothers as an income. Or teachers when they divide the salary by the hours they work. So, most people who are proud of what they do, don’t yell on facebook how they should be valued. And while both of these professions do seem to really love what they do, there is this online inflation that I can’t seem to wrap my head around. Anyone have an answer why?

    Reply Link
    • avatar

      Banana January 31, 2014, 5:19 pm

      Maybe because the value of their work is more frequently attacked? You don’t get a lot of people writing articles about how sales account executives don’t do “real work,” but you do see a lot of articles about how SAHMs don’t do “real work.” With teachers I think it’s because the quality of education in America/the ability of the public school system to attract and retain good talent is a hot topic, and many people link these issues with teacher compensation: is it too low? Is it too high (don’t laugh — they’re talking combined with benefits, pension, tenure [which eliminates opportunity costs of joblessness]). I think that’s what spawns a lot of defensiveness (not entirely undeserved).

      Reply Link
    • theattack

      theattack January 31, 2014, 5:31 pm

      Because traditionally female-dominated work has always been highly undervalued. There are tons of nursing memes like that too. Women are starting to fight back and demand that what they do is valuable as well. It’s all just part of a larger feminist movement to value the traditionally feminine as well as the traditionally masculine.

      Also the nature of those jobs is to serve other people in a way, and the people in those roles are taken advantage of. Nurses are expected to be servants, and teachers are expected to be miracle workers keeping parents happy, teaching values, and educating at the same time, and stay at home moms – well, I don’t even need to describe how they can be taken advantage of and/or taken for granted in the home. It’s just backlash to a culture that demands everything and is grateful for nothing.

      Reply Link
  • barleystonks

    barleystonks January 31, 2014, 5:28 pm

    Ok, so this is a comment on the teenager thing:

    For me, adulthood WAS the answer. Miserable in highschool, miserable in (traditional) college… Got out into the workforce and life was suddenly so much easier, despite the fact that I had to pay my own bills.

    Yes, I know this is a general thing, and it really probably doesn’t work that way for most people, but still.

    Reply Link
  • Fabelle

    Fabelle January 31, 2014, 5:33 pm

    I say this all the time, but I hate Thought Catalog. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate (I think? Wendy wrote something for them once, & that’s probably the only good writing on there, because everything else seems like it’s written by the same vapid 22 year old girl? Right?) (nothing against 22 year old girls) (I mean, women) (But I purposely used “Girl” because, context)

    Reply Link
    • muchachaenlaventana

      muchachaenlaventana January 31, 2014, 5:50 pm

      i know the person who founded it. embarrassing. i also hate it SO much. it is just the stupidest drivel on the internet.

      Reply Link
  • avatar

    coco January 31, 2014, 10:06 pm

    If Amy Glass is so concerned about the excellence of women and their work, why didn’t she put a little more effort into making her grammar excellent, rather than mediocre at best (content of the troll-piece aside).

    Reply Link

Leave a Comment

Next Post: Previous Post: