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His Take: “Do All Guys Go to Strip Clubs?”

I’m 30 years-old and I had a fight with my boyfriend of two years; I told him I didn’t want to see him or speak to him until I was ready. We have since made up and our relationship seems like it’s brand new, butterflies and all… BUT yesterday he was at his second job and accidentally pocket-dialed me and it went to my voice mail. After six-plus minutes of shuffling noises I heard him say to his co-worker, “Hey man, you should have been there to see this stripper with me at the club on Saturday, she looked like Lady Gaga,” and they both laughed.

I confronted him and he confessed he went ALONE and got a lap dance. He said it’s nothing serious but he’s sorry he hurt me. Now I feel stupid and disgusted with myself and embarrassed to be naked around him and less desirable because while I was home crying about our fight a beautiful naked girl was taking his money and dancing privately for him. Am I over-reacting or is this why guys do? — Strip-Tease

Andrew: I think you feel uncomfortable around your boyfriend because you suspect you might be dating a weirdo. So I invented a game for you called: Am I Dating a Weirdo? Lets break it down.

Is going to a strip club alone weird? Yes. But doing something weird doesn’t automatically make him a weirdo. Sometimes people just do weird things (You know, like eavesdropping on your boyfriend’s pants phone call for a full six minutes before you even hear him talk. Weird right?). I do, however, feel confident telling you that guys who go to strip clubs by themselves on a regular basis are in no uncertain terms weirdos. But it’s unfair to assume that that’s the case with your boyfriend based on one overheard conversation.

To me, the weirdest part of your letter is that your boyfriend thinks Lady Gaga is hot. No offense to Lady Gaga — she seems very nice and I’m sure in person she’s quite attractive — but let’s be honest, she makes herself up like a drag queen and the fact that your boyfriend finds her hot is a little weird. I would even go so far as to say it’s weirder than sitting all alone in a strip club.
In summing up: while your boyfriend is definitely kind of weird, it doesn’t necessarily make him a weirdo. Congratulations!

Jarek: Ah, the strip club debate — one of many in which men and women will never see eye-to-eye, like picking bathroom tiles or the health benefits of beer. Guys don’t go to strip clubs to fulfill some sort of emotional or sexual gap in their lives. We go because we like seeing naked women and it’s a way to see them without being intimate. It’s a lot like internet porn, only it’s live and you don’t receive emails for penis enhancement pills after visiting. In all actuality, our time would probably be better spent banging our head against a wall and tossing money down the sewer. That way, when we wake up, we still have the raging headache and no money, but at least we’re not covered in glitter.

My guess is your guy, being kicked out and told “don’t call or visit,” was just looking to shut out the world. Strip clubs are the place to do this. They’re usually dark, no one bothers you, and girls pretend you’re attractive. It’s like going to a dive bar, only instead of watching football and playing Kino we watch naked women do some pretty impressive upper body strength on a brass pole. It shouldn’t be equated with a brothel house; we don’t go there looking to get some. I know it is not an easy concept to grasp, but trust me when I tell you that your boyfriend is absolutely not comparing you or your body to any of the strippers. He was being honest when he said it was nothing serious, but if it’s really something that you feel uncomfortable with, just tell him you would prefer it if he didn’t go. He’ll probably stop. If he breaks your request, then there are issues that need to be addressed. But in the meantime, try not to associate strip clubs with emotional attachment or desire, and please don’t feel self-conscious about your own body. I guarantee your guy doesn’t think any different about you or your body, and it’s extremely unlikely that he’d even be able to pick out a girl who danced for him in a line up. Unless, of course, Lady Gaga was in a line-up. Then that’d be pretty funny.

Joe: I don’t understand strip clubs at all. To me, they’re like going hungry into a restaurant, watching the chefs prepare a meal, seeing it, smelling it… but then going home without eating. That said, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with them.

However, in your case, to me it’s not so much an issue that he went and got a lap dance as it is that he is likely 30 or older and in the midst of a long-term relationship when he got a lap dance, that he did so while the two of you were in a bad fight, and that he was bragging to a co-worker about it. He’s not some single guy in his early 20s. He’s in a relationship and he should be more mature than the lap dance and bragging imply, and he should be more upset over the fight than going to a strip club implies. I don’t think it’s the act that matters here. I think it’s what the act and following behavior imply. You need to ask yourself if the man you’re looking for is the type who would get lap dances during fights and then brag about them to people he works with. It’s childish.

On the other hand, I’m sure he’s being honest when he says it’s nothing serious. It was a lap dance. It was a momentary fantasy. She means a sum total of nothing to him. Giving him too much benefit of the doubt, perhaps she was simply a way to distract him from the pain he was feeling over the fight. But I doubt it.

Bitter Gay Mark: Yikes. This is crazy on so many levels. Why did you listen for over six minutes? Seriously? I would have hung up after like fifteen or so seconds… But no. You listened and listened. Why? That is a question that bears examining. But you gloss right over it to obsess about some faux Lady Gaga. Okay, whatever…The REAL Gaga isn’t even that hot. Take away the crazy meat dresses and she’s “average” at best. Everybody keeps saying she’s the new Madonna… I don’t see it. But I digress. Look, you’re not alone, women these days seem way too hung up on sex — all too often making ANY transgression a much bigger deal than it truly is. If you REALLY are THIS insecure, then by all means, yes, dump him and move on. Move on to what? I don’t know. But in 2011, a lap dance is about as intimate as a flossing one’s teeth. Unless your boyfriend looks like Brad Pitt, it’s beyond doubtful that “Miss Gaga” even remembers the incident. Seriously. To her he’s just another dork she had to deal with for five minutes. You’re thirty. Start acting like it. If you have problems with how you look naked, deal with it. Do something about it. But don’t pile all this baggage onto some poor hapless stripper. You pouted, stomped your foot and cut off all communication, your guy responded by rushing right out to the Playboy Club… So, yeah, it’s a real toss up as to which action was the most immature. Move on already. Not from the guy, but the incident. PS — Yes, you are overreacting.

Art: First of all, don’t get too mad at him: strip clubs have awesome buffet deals. Maybe he’s just trying to save you guys some money! But really, I feel like strip clubs are like porn sites: they’re OK because they’re not real. They are fantasy women doing fantasy things. But you are not overreacting at all to feel uncomfortable with your boyfriend having his gentles massaged by a stripper’s ass. That is physical contact aimed at arousal (and maybe culmination? No one has been able to confirm the endgame of a lap dance for me), and that sounds a lot like cheating to me because it’s crossing a line. It’s touching instead of looking. Regardless of whether he was alone, or in front of five of his friends, or in front of 1000 strangers, it doesn’t matter: he was touching someone with his junk (through his pants) with the idea that it was erotic. That’s just icky.

Also, if your boyfriend is bragging about a stripper who looks like Lady Gaga, you should run like hell out of that relationship. He’s got something wrong upstairs.

* If you’d like to ask the guys a question, simply email me at wendy@dearwendy.com with “His Take” in the subject line and I’ll pass your question along to them.

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{ 250 comments… add one }

  • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 12:09 pm

    omg LMAO at Andrews response… LOVE IT!!!

  • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 12:15 pm

    I can understand why you might be paranoid, but are you comparing his body to Josh Duhamel’s every time you see him naked? He’s going to see bodies that are better than yours. You’re going to see bodies that are better than his. That doesn’t mean that either one of you is comparing each other to any other unrealistic expectation. I personally don’t have a problem with strip clubs, but I realize I’m not the majority and can see why you would be upset.

    But you say you feel disgusting, because while you were home upset he was with a beautiful girl. You know why he most likely went to a strip club? Because he was UPSET. Don’t feel like he went to the strip club because he was finally free of you and wanted to bask in a few days without you.

    • avatar Jena August 11, 2011, 12:32 pm

      I’d be kind of unnerved that when he is upset he has to have a naked lady prance around him.

      • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 12:37 pm

        Since, as far as she knows, this was a one time thing, it doesn’t seem like he HAS to have naked women prance around him. I don’t know if she meant it to sound this way, but she told him not to contact or talk to her until SHE was ready, which almost sounds like a break or break up.

        “WE WERE ON A BREAK!”

        • avatar Jena August 11, 2011, 1:19 pm

          Considering he didn’t tell her about it and she found out via butt-dial, it doesn’t sound like something he knew she’d be okay with. That’s the part that irks me — what bad fight warrants a secret lap dance?

          • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 1:23 pm

            What bad fight warrants cutting off all communication?

            I may be reading it wrong since the LW was kind of vague, but “Don’t talk to me or contact me until I’m ready,” sounds like break-up limbo to me. How did he know when she was going to be ready to talk to him, if ever? If my boyfriend said that to me, I wouldn’t even know if we WERE together any more. So if I wanted to go out and get my mind off of it, I definitely wouldn’t be calling up my maybe ex boyfriend and asking him how he felt about it.

            • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 1:39 pm

              I agree with all your points, AB. She sounds like she was harsh with him during the fight, and vague about their future, and he was left waiting for her to decide “when” she’d talk or see him again. Now she’s the “victim” of all these insecurities because he got a lap dance…?

              She sounds like she’s being over-dramatic about this, and it might be that she’s the type to be like that (hence, her reaction to their fight), or she might be feeling guilty for how she acted during their fight.

              He’s apologetic for what he did _one_ time – he can’t do anything else about it now. She needs to put this in perspective.

          • avatar Bethany August 11, 2011, 3:48 pm

            Why would he tell her about it at all? They were on a break! What he does is his business, unless it puts her in some sort of physical danger (like if he had unprotected sex w/ someone or something)

          • avatar robottapocalypse August 11, 2011, 11:34 pm

            I doubt he was okay with her cutting off communication for her own immature reasons.

      • avatar MissDre August 11, 2011, 12:38 pm

        Yeah, but men process things differently. He was probably upset, so focusing on a strange naked lady was his way of forgetting about the fight entirely for a while. I don’t think I’d be too happy either if my boyfriend did this… but I don’t think we should trash this guy for it.

        • avatar Jena August 11, 2011, 1:06 pm

          Focusing on a naked lady dancing ON him is his coping method and you say there’s nothing to be concerned about?

          Yikes.

          • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 1:25 pm

            MissDre was doing a thing called, giving the benefit of doubt. It’s speculation.
            Choosing to read too much into someone’s actions sans asking them explicitly what reasoning was behind their actions is the way to go.

            The LW should not be concerned so much about that yet – but rather, her ability to develop better communication skills with her boyfriend.

          • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:41 pm

            For some men, going to a strip club is no different than playing video games for 5 hours straight – yeah it’s a waste of time, but the point is to get his mind off of his problems.

            Frankly, I find YOUR holier-than-thou attitude about strip clubs to be more cause for concern that this man’s actions.

      • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 12:38 pm

        I agree Jena. Could be a sign of a future cheater?

        • avatar Jena August 11, 2011, 1:18 pm

          No, I just think it’s a shitty way of dealing with problems with his girlfriend.

          • avatar beans629 August 11, 2011, 1:32 pm

            No if he got a BJ that would be a shitty way of dealing with problems with his girlfriend. But a lap dance by a Lady Gaga impersonator, eh, not so much.

          • avatar Darury August 14, 2011, 4:46 pm

            No, I just think it’s a way of dealing with problems with his shitty girlfriend.

            FTFY.

        • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 1:29 pm

          Child please…

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 1:38 pm

          well I certainly wouldnt date a guy with that little self respect haha!

          • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:43 pm

            It isn’t about a lack of self respect, at all. It’s just another form of distracting entertainment that will definitely get your mind off your troubles.

            I wouldn’t date a girl with so much Judgy-Judgeness in her!

            • avatar Jena August 12, 2011, 11:43 am

              Distracting entertainment that’s usually demeaning to women! YAY!!!

        • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 1:46 pm

          Oh my, if every guy who ever got a lap dance was a future cheater, a LOT of us women would be in trouble. Hell, my husband and I had a joint bachelor/bachelorette party that started with dinner, laser tag and ultimately a strip club. During that party (at the last stage there were only a few straggling friends left due to the weather), I bought him a lap dance. I hope I wasn’t contributing to his future cheating.

          • avatar sarita_f August 11, 2011, 3:09 pm

            Dude, that is exactly the type of bachelore/bachelorette party that would be awesome to attend!

            • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 3:58 pm

              It was a lot of fun and made it so people could attend parts that they wanted if they weren’t comfortable with other parts. To be honest, laser tag was the best part of the whole night.

          • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 3:09 pm

            So I’m assuming people don’t approve of me getting my husband a lap dance?

            • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 3:11 pm

              Is this a rhetorical question or are you seeking validation?

              • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 3:57 pm

                Its more rhetorical than anything :) No need for validation here

            • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 3:58 pm

              Who cares. I’ve paid for more than one of my husband’s lap dances, and probably a couple of his friends & mine too. I’m thinking it’s a combination of that & the bachelor/ette party at the strip club. Whatever. Sounds like fun to me! But then I’m fairly comfortable with my own sexuality (and that of others) so I don’t get so negative over what OTHER PEOPLE do.

  • landygirl Landygirl August 11, 2011, 12:18 pm

    I’d be more upset that he wasted a bunch of money, strip clubs aren’t cheap. More importantly, the issues in your relationship go far deeper than your anger at this one incident. Instead of trying to fix it or accept it, try and figure out of this is truly the person you want to be with. He is who he is, strip club goer and all and if that doesn’t sit right with you, then maybe he isn’t the right guy for you.

    • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:44 pm

      Evidently you don’t know how much a single lap dance costs. A guy can easily get out of a strip club after being danced for and liquored up for under $100.

      • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 11:40 pm

        But Britannia! That’s still a hundred dollars! A whole one hundred dollars that he could have spent on her! It’s not like women ever spent money frivolously…

        • avatar Phil August 14, 2011, 4:47 pm

          “A whole one hundred dollars that he could have spent on her!”

          See, that’s where you lost me. (of course a hundred dollars is not that much to spend in one night anyway). While I personally think strip clubs are a waste of time and money, it *is* his money to do with what he likes. And, let’s not forget that *she* cut off all communication with him saying “We can talk when “I’m” good and ready”. Not really an incentive to pool my financial resources to spend on her.

        • avatar Phil August 14, 2011, 4:48 pm

          And I see my sarcasm detector was in the off position…

          Nothing to see here… move along.

          (sorry)

  • caitie_didnt caitie_didn't August 11, 2011, 12:28 pm

    I think the guy’s responses are pretty on the ball- the thing about strip clubs is that they’re not real. Plus, they can benefit the girl if your guy gets all worked up and you then have amazing sex when he gets home! I do also agree though, that the fact that he went to a strip club while you were in a fight might be indicative of immaturity or a kind of malicious intent, which is a bigger problem. There’s not enough info in this letter to say “he went to the strip club *just* to piss you off”, but if that sounds like something he’d do, I’d say this relationship has some serious issues.

    My ex boyfriend went out on a guy’s night while we were together that ended up at a strip club, and ended with his friends buying him (the one guy with a girlfriend) a lap dance. He told me about what was happening almost while it was going down, and while I personally was indifferent to the fact that he went to a strip club I was a little pissed about the lap dance part of it. Even then, I couldn’t be *that* angry, because he told me about it and promised not to do it again. If the guy is seriously, honestly apologetic, and understanding of why him getting a lap dance makes you feel insecure or disrespected, I think you should probably just let it go. If he ignores you and/or continues to frequent them whenever you have a fight, again, you have bigger issues.

    • avatar SoCalGuy August 14, 2011, 2:50 pm

      “There’s not enough info in this letter to say ‘he went to the strip club *just* to piss you off’, but if that sounds like something he’d do, I’d say this relationship has some serious issues.”

      IOW, you’re going to speculate that he may have done this just to piss her off…but didn’t tell her about it to maximize the chance that it would piss her off because she would never know about it…wait…

      Maybe you should also speculate that his way of telling her (so that she would be pissed) was to pants-dial her…and then wait 6+ minutes before spilling the beans to a co-worker, knowing that she was so nosy as to listen that long…after which he apologized rather than say anything indicating that it was a revenge-lap-dance…hold on…this will all make sense soon…

  • avatar MissDre August 11, 2011, 12:31 pm

    Oh dear. Ok, I understand why you would be not so happy that your man went to a strip club while you in a fight. It makes you feel like the fight didn’t mean that much to him. You were upset, miserable, crying over your fight and you feel like he just went out and had a good time. First of all, men deal with their emotions in a different way than women do. It doesn’t mean that he didn’t care about the fight, it just means that it really bothered him to think about it and he needed a way to let loose and focus on something else entirely. I think it’s a little odd that he went alone but whatever, it’s not a big dig.

    But what I don’t understand, is why the hell are you disgusted with yourself? Why the hell are you afraid to be naked in front of him now? Honey, you need a lot more self respect than that. You deserve better from yourself. Are you insecure about your body? Maybe you should work on that (for you, not for him). Are you worried that he wants the stripper more than he wants you? Don’t be. In most cases, men do not think highly of strippers. Like others said, it’s like porn. It’s fun to watch, but most guys don’t actually respect the girls up on that poll.

    LW, that stripper has nothing to do with you. Work on building up your confidence and your own self worth.

    • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 1:23 pm

      I think the fact that “most guys don’t actually respect the girls up on that poll” is the whole point. If I did not think my boyfriend was the type to go to strip clubs alone and get a lap dance and I found out he did, I would start to question what he thinks about women in general, which would lead me to wonder what he thinks about me and my body. Not in terms of its imperfections but in terms of its commodification which has nothing to do with my own self worth as you suggest. Why is it always the women’s own body or self esteem issues that get thrown back at her when the guy she’s involved with does something she can’t understand or recognize as a time for “building up your confidence and your own self worth” ?

      • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:41 pm

        Amen!!

      • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 6:12 pm

        Oh, God. Not this old standby… It’s just such a tired argument. Why should you respect somebody who is stripping for cash? Seriously? Why? Besides… this logic all falls apart when you examine it through the prism of gay sexuality. Do I sit there, drunkenly respecting the str8 boy who seductively works that pole at Rage on friday nights? No. No, I sure don’t. Far from it. (Hell, usually, they can’t even really dance…) But does my lack of respect means that I have deep psychological issues? Does it that mean that I disrespect all gay boys everywhere? No. This whole guys who go to strip clubs don’t respect women is such a tired women studies argument. I am sorry, but seriously… it makes me laugh. What year is this? 1973?

        • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 6:54 pm

          I was not saying that men should respect strippers. I was saying that IF her idea of her boyfriend did not include him going to strip clubs *alone* I can understand it when she’s questioning herself and her body around him. You don’t need “deep psychological issues” to take part in the commodification of women’s/men’s bodies, not at all. I get what you are saying about taking this argument into other sexualities and looking at it differently but I also don’t buy at all that it’s the same thing simply because of the structural ways in which women are valued in relation to and by men. (now that sounds like women’s studies-y, but alas anthropology major)

        • CatsMeow CatsMeow August 11, 2011, 8:07 pm

          Just curious (for real) – when you say “respect” how do you mean it? “Why should you respect somebody who is stripping for cash?” Do you mean “to hold in esteem or honor” or “to show regard or consideration for”?

          I think one should always be considerate/courteous/’respectful” of others regardless of their profession or current life situation, unless/until they give you a reason not to.

          • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 8:10 pm

            Obviously, the first one. I am not saying that anybody should go in there and treat strippers like shit.

            • CatsMeow CatsMeow August 11, 2011, 8:31 pm

              Yeah. I guess it was obvious. I just saw the word “respect” so many times that I started to forget what it means.

            • avatar robottapocalypse August 11, 2011, 11:45 pm

              When I want to treat women like they are less human than me, I go to a place where hundreds of people pay money to a man to tell us that women are of less value than me. Sometimes I even go alone. However, nobody ever dogs me for hating women because the place that I go to demean them is a church.

              • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 11:49 pm

                Hilarious. And very historically true.

        • avatar Jena August 12, 2011, 11:44 am

          Seriously, seriously. “Why should you respect somebody who is stripping for cash?”

          SERIOUSLY?

    • avatar Nadine August 12, 2011, 2:24 am

      actually I would be more upset if my boyfriend didn’t respect the girl up on that “poll”. What kind of douche goes and looks and gets a lap-dance and then doesn’t respect the woman who gave it? Why is it not respectable to dance for money, but respectable to have sex on the first date, after one has had dinner/movies/whatever paid for?
      I agree the stripper has nothing to do with the LW’s self-esteem, but really, lets not start acting like its the strippers fault that her industry exists and she is earning a dollar through it.

      • CatsMeow CatsMeow August 12, 2011, 11:33 am

        I agree with you… I like strippers/strip clubs, but when you say you have a total lack of respect for them, like you are ABOVE them, it is kind of degrading, in a sense. It’s like, HEY I think you are a disgusting less-than-human, so let me pay you to gyrate on my dick! I GET that when they talk about a lack of respect they might just be talking about…. OK i’m here to pay you to do this, it’s purely transactional, they’re not there to talk about feelings and get to KNOW the girl. But still… Just blanket-statement not respecting strippers as people? That might be taking it too far. Like….. if you wouldn’t date a stripper because you’re not comfortable with it, fine…. but what if you fell in love with someone and then found out they were a FORMER stripper? Would you say, SEE YA, sorry but I just lost all respect for you?

  • avatar Nick August 11, 2011, 12:31 pm

    Hah, what a story! When someone pocket dials you, you Hang Up as soon as you know that’s what has happened. I actually think that little foul was the worst picadillo in this whole teacup tempest. No, I say just LAUGH this one off and focus on the big picture.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 12:39 pm

      atleast it was a voicemail right

      • avatar camille905 August 11, 2011, 1:13 pm

        No, it wasn’t voice mail the LW just listened to pocket sounds for SIX MINUTES until he told a co worker this story. Sounds like she had trust issues before she found this out.

        • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 1:20 pm

          … It was a voicemail.

          “But yesterday he was at his second job and accidentally pocket-dialed me and it went to my voice mail. ”

          If you mean, he didn’t leave her a voicemail that’s true. I think Katie was saying, at least the LW listened to a voicemail and not an active pocket call.

          • avatar camille905 August 11, 2011, 1:50 pm

            I wouldn’t have listened to an entire six minute voice mail before it got to a talking, I would have deleted it…..but that’s just me.

            • avatar MissDre August 11, 2011, 2:29 pm

              To give the LW the benefit of the doubt, it was only in the last year that I found out there was a way to delete a voicemail without listening to the entire thing.

              • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:46 pm

                The overall tone of the letter makes me not want to give this girl the benefit of the doubt… I think it’s much more likely that she probably listened to the whole, desperately hoping for something damning to be heard.

  • avatar cmarie August 11, 2011, 12:43 pm

    The difference between online porn and a strip club is that the girl doesn’t climb out of the computer screen and shove her boobs in your face. Going to a strip club is whateves to me, but a lap dance crosses a line. I know you’re not allowed to touch and all but I’ve had a lap dance before and it’s so much more explicit than watching people have sex on the TV. I understand how hearing your BF bragging about how hot the other woman was would make the LW feel uncomfortable. My partner is completely understanding when I say how gorgeous Rachel Weiss is but when it comes to real life people, I would never tell her how hot my office mate was, especially after he sat on my lap and gyrated.
    You and your BF have deeper issues than the strip club, this sounds like a symptom of the greater illness. If you want to move forward in your relationship, and move past this incident, you need to sit down and have a real talk with him. Next time you get angry, don’t push him out of your life for days, sit down and figure out what’s going on.

    • avatar beans629 August 11, 2011, 1:37 pm

      >I would never tell her how hot my office mate was, especially after he sat on my lap and gyrated.

      Lol. Where in the hell do you work where hot guys gyrating on you is acceptable? I’ve totally got the wrong job.

      • avatar cmarie August 11, 2011, 5:00 pm

        Chippendale’s

  • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 12:44 pm

    I think Joe provided the best advice. It’s not about him going to a strip club, it’s about him going to a strip club in the middle of a fight and bragging about it.

    I wonder if the context of the fight would make it a little clearer. Big blowup, him running away from emotions to a strip club? Doesn’t bode well if it’s something he should be communicating on. Mountain out of a molehill that maybe you overreacted about? Meh, not the brightest idea for him, but less of a comment on the relationship over all.

    And why should you feel disgusted with yourself? Because you cared enough to cry after you had a fight? There’s nothing wrong with that and you have to have a little more self-confidence.

    P.S. Beautiful =/= Lady Gaga.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 12:46 pm

      I do agree with you, except it wasnt so much that he ran away, it was more like she told him she didnt want to see him or speak to him until I was ready.

      • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 12:48 pm

        That’s true, making me wonder what was SO monumental that she didn’t want to see him.

        • avatar SpaceySteph August 12, 2011, 2:39 pm

          Unless she’s just a total drama queen. I think the only thing that would lead to me making this response is if I caught my bf cheating on me. What else could possibly warrant this kind of behavior?
          If he cheated, then it puts the strip club into a different context- his consistent seeking of interaction with women outside his relationship.
          Then again, my college roommate would have this kind of fight weekly with her boyfriend at the time. Over absolutely nothing. I could hardly keep track of whether they were or were not speaking at any given time because it changed so frequently. If thats the case, then their relationship doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell regardless of a strip club visit.

      • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 1:46 pm

        @Katie – part of me thinks you’re the LW given that slip of saying “I”, plus your numerous comments in support of her and harsh attitude about the guy’s behavior. ;-)

        • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 2:01 pm

          Called out! Though, seriously, I would appreciate it if the LW could tell us what this gigantic fight was about. My curiosity is piqued.

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 2:14 pm

          lol nope my guy lives in a different state right now lol not me. i just copied and pasted that sentance from the letter and forgot to switch out the I. I have written wendy a couple of times but she has never used a letter I sent in :)

    • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 1:11 pm

      Joe’s response is how women would like guys to think and behave, but I think Jarek’s response is more accurate for the typical guy. 

      He never said Lady Gaga was beautiful, though – he said a stripper looked like her, and they laughed. Laughing indicates to me that they don’t; however, that point is irrelevant. 

      • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 1:17 pm

        I didn’t really mean the first paragraph–there wouldn’t be any profitable strip clubs if everyone thought like Joe. I see Jarek’s rationale and it makes sense to me, but I probably wouldn’t date someone whose first impulse after a fight was to go get a lap dance. Though my first impulse after a fight is not to demand my boyfriend leave my sight.

        • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 1:42 pm

          If this was his normal reaction when they have a fight, I’d be more critical – it happened one time after she told him she didn’t want to see or talk to him until _she_ was ready.

        • bagge72 bagge72 August 11, 2011, 3:16 pm

          We don’t know if this was his first reaction, we don’t even know how long it was since she told him to get out of his sight. It could have been a couple of days, and he might of thought they were broken up since they hadn’t talked. I think there is to much missing information in this letter to really give advice on.

      • avatar Mainer August 11, 2011, 1:33 pm

        Yeah, i was going to bring up the part about Lady Gaga. It’s not entirely irrelevant that they laughed, it really speaks to strips clubs as a whole. It’s part of the reason guys go to strip clubs, there are some pretty freaky girls getting their shit on. There are midgets, middle aged women, average women, tiny women, big women, tattooed women, nerdy looking women. They’re all there, mostly for entertainment purposes. They’re there just so on your death bed you can say, with absolute certainty, that you saw a Lady Gaga stripper once. So she shouldn’t exactly be beating herself up that a “beautiful” girl was dancing for him (unless it was pre cheekbone-implant, she was pretty hot then).

        Regarding the private dance. Strippers are some of the most amazing sales people in the entire world. Seriously, give these girls a job at a pharmaceutical company or selling cars or something and they’ll be billionaires. Every guy has the same talk going in: “Okay, just going to get a few beers since they’re $12 each, sit in the corner, veg out a little. I will *not* be getting any dances, there’s no way. I got this, I’m strong willed. Ain’t no way a girl is talking me into a private dance.” Ten minutes later you see that same guy walking over to the atm with a stripper wrapped around his arm and a bouncer behind them. I’ll bet my left nut this guy had zero intention of getting a dance when he went there. But those dancers, man, they’re convincing. They’re like those card table hustlers on the street. “Tell you what man, free round on me. No obligation, no hassles. You can walk away after if you want.” Next thing you know it’s been an hour and you’re wondering what happened and why you’ve hit your withdraw limit on the atm.

        • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 1:48 pm

          Ah, I see the temptations you’ve fallen to in the past, mainer! ;-)

          • avatar Mainer August 11, 2011, 1:51 pm

            It was a friend. I heard it. It was a story, this friend, he told me a story of what happens in those places. He was like, “this is crazy,” and I was like “I know, glad I never did that.” It was a good story.

        • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 1:50 pm

          Sorry, but your advice to her is that men go to strip clubs to see freaky women so they can brag about it when they are dying and that men have no self control when it comes to strippers? Not a very high opinion of the male species huh?

          • avatar Mainer August 11, 2011, 1:53 pm

            Yes, that was my absolute serious advice. That guys go to strip clubs so they have something to talk about on their death bed. If that was read with any sort of facetiousness I urge you to re-read it in a serious tone. Please. Do that now.

            • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 2:05 pm

              Ah, but you think just highly enough of the male species to order me about. Tut tut Mainer, don’t know you I read everything you write in a serious tone? preferably in a james mason voice.

              • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 6:56 pm

                Not fans of james mason i see.

        • avatar MissDre August 11, 2011, 2:32 pm

          Yeah, my cousin is a stripper. She needed to make some fast cash one night so she tipped the bouncer to let her in and work the floor. She buys me a drink, points to this one young guy who looks well off and says, “See that guy? By the end of the hour, he’s coming upstairs with me.” And she was right. I assumed this was a common occurrence.

          • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 2:59 pm

            I agree. One of my friends actually screwed a stripper in the lap dance booths!! The ones that look like mens bathroom stalls?! So I think there’s a bigger chance of strippers sleeping with the patrons than 1%… At the end of the day, money is money.

            • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:49 pm

              Believe it or not, many strippers do have morals and boundaries. The ones who have sex with customers? They either get fired pretty quickly, or those customers are going to a club who deliberately offers those services.

              • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 7:03 pm

                Yes, but at the end of the day, the ones that does sleep with the patrons do it because of the money, not because they like the guy. You get a shit load more money for finishing the deal. I didn’t say ALL strippers do this, I just said I believe it occurs with more than 1% of them…

                • Budj Budjer August 12, 2011, 1:44 pm

                  I’d be scared my dick would rot off if I screwed a stripper…not saying all strippers are disease ridden, but if she would screw me how many other guys has she screwed in that booth?

          • avatar El August 11, 2011, 3:13 pm

            Your cousin sounds like a super classy lady.

        • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 2:50 pm

          YES! I have a running joke with my husband & his group of friends. We all went to a strip club one night & the girls were dressed up… one as Cammy from Street Fighter. (Yes. Really.) When the guys saw her, it was like they were all 13 again… and then she walked up & spoke.

          “YOU VANT DAAAAAAANCE??” She had the thickest, most unattractive Eastern bloc accent EVER.

          OMFG. To this day, we laugh our asses off about that & “DAAAAAAANCE” is our go-to phrase for something that looks great on the surface, but is total shit when you get past the pretty.

          On another note: one of the girls there has come to recognize me & asks my husband where I am every time he goes without me (which is most of the time). Ha! Now, I know he can’t set foot in that place without thinking of his gracious, sweet wife waiting at home for him. Lulz. :)

          Moral of these stories: If you don’t marginalize your SO or jump to conclusions about his behavior, be a little open-minded, let him have experiences & you take the time to experience those things too, you might just develop a better relationship with him & yourself.

  • leilani leilani August 11, 2011, 12:57 pm

    I’d have no problem with my boyfriend going to a strip club with his friends, but I’d think it was really weird if he went alone. I also wouldn’t be cool with him getting a lap dance, because I think prolonged physical contact crosses a line, especially when that contact is between his crotch and a girl’s ass. So I definitely wouldn’t be cool with this. I don’t think its breakup-worthy, necessarily, because he didn’t definitively know that this crossed a boundary for you. I’d just make it clear that I wasn’t okay with this in the future.

  • avatar oldie August 11, 2011, 1:05 pm

    They had the huge fight because he sent her an e-card instead of the real-deal Hallmark for her birthday.

    I don’t see the attraction of strip clubs. Kind of sleazy, actually. A bunch of us went to one in Birmingham on a business trip, because one of the guys really wanted to go and really wanted a beer after the plane landed. It was so dark that we didn’t even notice that the seats were wet, before we sat down. We just hoped it was spilled beer.

    LW seems a little drama queenish. What was ever solved by ‘don’t talk to me until I’m ready’? She might have had very sufficient cause for upset, but this is just another case of the LW focusing upon the peripheral and leaving out the main facts. What was this awful argument about that caused you to refuse to talk? And if it was so awful, why are you back together. I guess I’m saying drama queen because of this ‘all butterflies again’ comment. Seems LW likes the drama/breakup/makeup cycle. Not my taste — seems unhealthy in a mature relationship.

    • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 4:10 pm

      Oh ew. I don’t know about super dark, wet-seated strip clubs. The ones my husband and I have been to were both fairly well lit and very friendly. It was just like being in a regular bar but with nekkid people wandering around having drinks and talking to people before they danced.

  • avatar Lydia August 11, 2011, 1:09 pm

    I guess I’m an oversensitive prude, but if my guy went to a strip club without any conversation with me, I would be SO NOT OKAY with that. I’m surprised so many commenters are all “he couldn’t have known this would cross a boundary for you” because to me that is a very default boundary. Like kissing other people. It’s possible to do it in a relationship if you’re both okay with it, but it definitely needs a conversation first.

    Besides that, I don’t think it’s the same as porn at all – you don’t influence porn in any way, there is no interaction between performer and audience, which is really not the case in a strip club. Especially when there is a lapdance involved. You can say it’s not real or a fantasy all you want – in the end that is still a real woman grinding her real ass into my guy’s real crotch.

    • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 1:15 pm

      Kind of hard to have a conversation with someone about it when they told you not to speak to them or contact them.

      • avatar Lydia August 11, 2011, 1:19 pm

        Still not an excuse to just go and do it, if you ask me.

        Just to be clear, I don’t think the LW is exactly a saint in this situation either. The breaking off contact until she was “ready” is definitely weird and probably a bigger issue. But I don’t understand the cavalier attitude towards strip clubs either.

    • avatar camille905 August 11, 2011, 1:17 pm

      But the LW also told him not to contact her at all until she was ready. So she probably would have gotten mad/not answered the phone even if he HAD tried to call her.

      I’m totally fine with my dude going to a strip club without talking to me about it first, lap dance I wouldn’t be so cool with but if we’d never had a conversation about it, I don’t really feel like I have the right to be mad at him.

      • avatar Lydia August 11, 2011, 1:22 pm

        Maybe it’s because I live in the Netherlands… Surprisingly enough, visiting strip clubs isn’t all that common here. Is going to strip clubs a regular/normal pastime for guys in the US?

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 1:41 pm

          only for the creepy guys or the guys who cant get a girl in real life lol. I think its a common thing to do when guys celebrate their 18th birthday tho

          • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 1:59 pm

            Yeah, tell me about it. My boyfriend is soooooooooo creepy. I’m not even sure why I let him put his penis in my vagina. Is it weird that he always asks me to wear overly floral perfume and give him a lap dance before he’ll have sex with me?

            • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 2:06 pm

              My husband thinks Lady Gaga has a hot body…now what am I supposed to do?!?! And I have three kids with the weirdo!

              • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 2:09 pm

                You should probably just give up all hope. There’s no saving him once he’s this far gone.

                • avatar PFG-SCR August 11, 2011, 2:19 pm

                  I should have realized this was inevitable when he told me how much he liked Cher and Liza Minnelli…

                  • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 2:20 pm

                    In all seriousness though, Lady Gaga does actually have a really nice body.

                  • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 2:24 pm

                    eeewe lol!!

            • avatar robottapocalypse August 11, 2011, 11:54 pm

              Cotton candy.

          • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 2:54 pm

            Katie, your comments here make me wonder: have you ever even been to a strip club?

            • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:10 pm

              yup, and a couple of my good friends are strippers.

              • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 3:30 pm

                Then I have to wonder what makes you think that they’re only for creepy guys and/or those who can’t get a woman. Seems like a really broad, very close-minded description for someone who says they’ve been there before and has friends who work there. Seems to me that you should have seen different & your friends should have told you different. Your opinion & willingness to denigrate an entire subset of people that you don’t even know is pretty much disqualifying any point you make. And it’s offensive.

                I mean, I’ve been to strip clubs. I enjoyed it. I’m not a creepy guy (I’m an awesome girl!), nor am I unable to get a woman in real life (not that I want one, although the hubby might encourage that sort of thing). My husband goes. His friends go. Hell, I had a birthday party at a strip club. We’re all pretty well adjusted people. I’m just saying, for someone who’s been to a strip club, you seem pretty misinformed.

                • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:42 pm

                  we just see things differently and thats ok too.

                  • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 3:51 pm

                    No, it’s really not. Because there’s a difference between saying “I think that’s distasteful and not for me” and what you’ve said.

                    For example, I think your blonde hair in your photo is quite lovely, but nothing that I would ever do as it wouldn’t work on me. There’s a difference between me saying “Oh wow, that looks good on you, but I could never do it” and “Blonde hair makes me want to vomit.”

                    I have no issue with you having a difference of opinion. I DO have an issue with you trashing on people because it’s not your cup of tea.

                    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 5:03 pm

                      I am not worried about what you have an issue with ;)

              • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:51 pm

                I highly doubt that you actually have friends who are strippers. Your holier-than-thou attitude is sickening. And this particular comment about strippers being good friends? It reeks of the whole, “I’m not homophobic, my cousin is gay!” bullshit argument.

                • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 7:15 pm

                  I am not concerned with what you “highly doubt” lol considering you dont know me at all.

                • avatar kate August 11, 2011, 8:56 pm

                  Britannia, you’re talking about the same person who goes to an evangelical church thatt supposedly supports gay rights…

          • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 2:55 pm

            So I guess watching porn is for people who can’t get laid in real life too?

            • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:11 pm

              exactly!

              • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 3:31 pm

                BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

                Whew….

                BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

                • avatar Betty Boop August 12, 2011, 10:35 am

                  GingerLaine, I just fell a tiny bit in love with you for this!

                  • avatar GingerLaine August 12, 2011, 11:01 am

                    Awwww!! ::blushies:: Thanks! You know, I didn’t intend for it to run beyond the frame for the comments section, but it makes it SO much better that it did. :)

                    Sorry about that, Wendy.

              • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 3:34 pm

                I watch porn. I have tons of sex. Argument invalid.

                • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 3:38 pm

                  Me too! Geez, I thought I was special or something…

                • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:43 pm

                  I find porn gross and unclassy. but whatever floats your boat! haha

                  • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 4:09 pm

                    Next you’re going to tell us that any sex at all or anything sexual ever is gross and unclassy just like porn and strip clubs?

                    • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 4:14 pm

                      Probably only missionary is acceptable. Anything other than missonary is ghastly.

                    • avatar SpyGlassez August 15, 2011, 6:33 pm

                      Missionary only. In the dark. Eyes closed and under the sheets.

                  • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 6:52 pm

                    Why are they letting nuns onto the internet? Go back to your convent and keep your ignorant, rude comments to yourself.

                    And for the record — I don’t watch porn either, but I don’t chastise people who do. YOU’RE unclassy.

                • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 4:09 pm

                  Agreed

          • katie katie August 11, 2011, 8:56 pm

            just because you aren’t comfortable about your own sexuality or the sexuality of men you date, you shouldn’t put down something just because you dont understand it.

        • avatar Yammy August 11, 2011, 2:53 pm

          Most of the guys who have discussed strip clubs with me either say they’ve never been (usually young guys) or that they’ve only been a handful of times. I’ve only known one guy that admitted going on a regular basis. So I guess for American guys, it’s a normal pastime, but not a regular pastime?

          • avatar Lydia August 11, 2011, 2:57 pm

            Thanks for the answer. The replies here really made me wonder if it was a cultural difference. Seems like it is.

            • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 3:05 pm

              Most of my guy friends have never been or go only once in a blue moon (bachelor party or something.) I don’t think it’s at all normal to be a frequent patron of strip clubs.

              • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:11 pm

                I agree. Most guys I know wouldnt want to be known for frequenting a place that shady.

                • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 4:08 pm

                  You say you have stripper friends but then call strip clubs shady? That confuses me immensely.

                  Personally, I have no problem with a strip club as long as its clean and safe. My husband and I have been more than once. I think in the 6 years we’ve been together, we’ve gone maybe 3 or 4 times. I don’t think either of us thinks the places we have gone to are “shady.”

                  • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 5:04 pm

                    yes you got that right. I do have friends that strip. And no I do not respect their line of work. And yes I believe strip clubs and the men who frequest those places are shady.

                    • avatar addison August 12, 2011, 12:00 am

                      Oh my HELL Katie….reading your responses is like watching the part of American Idol where hopelessly bad people audition. It’s annoying, yet I keep reading because it’s also entertaining. I hope you become a regular on this site…
                      Actually, honestly…I hope you don’t. Because like the bad auditions on American Idol, your comments have gotten old- fast.

                    • avatar Maracuya August 12, 2011, 11:13 am

                      Wait, why would you have friends you don’t respect? I’m pretty sure you’ve posted before but…just what.

        • avatar oldie August 11, 2011, 3:08 pm

          One trip to a strip club is right of passage territory. Being a regular attendee is Loserville. LW’ bf’s reaction here may have been a semi-defiant ‘you think you’ve sent me home to weep and mope, but I’m just going to go out, get blotto, and enjoy myself’. Neither party seems especially mature, but then again, they’re back together and likely deserve each other.

          • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:12 pm

            haha true!!

          • CatsMeow CatsMeow August 11, 2011, 6:02 pm

            Blotto! I dig it.

      • avatar Something More Than Blah August 13, 2011, 12:12 am

        So if you guy never had a conversation specifically about using drugs and he came home coked out of his mind, you’d be OK with that because *shrug* you guys never had a conversation about it?

        Right.

    • avatar lemongrass August 11, 2011, 4:40 pm

      I understand what you mean, the LW was really immature about the situation but in my relationship, my husband knows how I feel about strip clubs and wouldn’t go without informing me first, and no lap dances!

      • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 5:05 pm

        *like*

  • avatar MiMi August 11, 2011, 1:10 pm

    What exactly are you disgusted about, LW? Is it because you’ve been acting like a teenager instead of a mature woman of 30 or because you feel like a fool to have cried over your relationship while your boyfriend was spending that time looking at titties?

    He’s the only one who can answer your questions about why he went to get a lap dance, what it meant to him, and how this activity affects his feelings for and about you. When you get those answers, you can then share with him what it meant to you and how it has affected your feelings for and about him. This is called communication. It is more effective for discovering the reality of your relationship than looking for validation from strangers or playing out dramatic fight-and-reconciliation scenes with your partner in order to discover whether or not he really cares for you…

    • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 1:19 pm

      Good points.

    • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 2:28 pm

      Is she not allowed to be upset by her boyfriend going to a strip club alone and getting a lap dance when they are in the middle of a fight and then having a reaction (being disgusted) when she reflects and wonder what he thinks then about her own body? Because to anyone whose not 100% in favor of their SO’s going to strip clubs or even contemplating what strip clubs represent within our culture, I don’t see her reaction as totally and completely insane. I don’t think you have to be a prude, conservative or raging feminist to not feel totally great with strip clubs and I don’t think that makes you some kind of unhip, uncool, super bitchy girlfriend (or boyfriend).

      • avatar oldie August 11, 2011, 3:13 pm

        I don’t think people think she’s bitchy because of her view on strip clubs. I think that was based on how she reacted to a fight with her bf. I wouldn’t call her bitchy over that, just very immature for 30. But here’s a question we might ask ourselves: why did LW bother to write. She can’t think going to a strip club is a moral disqualifier in a bf, because she’s back with him and even has ‘that butterfly feeling’. She doesn’t even hint what sort of dispute she and bf had that would make her think it justified to adopt the ‘just don’t contact me until I’m ready.’

        • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 3:25 pm

          I think she wrote in, like most LW’s to ask if her behavior or her SOs is the more accepted/normal one. i.e. “Am I over-reacting or is this why guys do?”
          the fact that she might have not even enough information to answer that question is another matter.

          • avatar savannah August 11, 2011, 3:26 pm

            even given*

  • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 1:19 pm

    PS – all you Gaga haters can kiss my black ass!

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 1:43 pm

      i respectfully decline your offer

      • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 5:06 pm

        well does anyone else wana kiss his black ass??? lol didnt think so ;)

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 6:45 pm

          id say kiss my pale white ass as well but its private property ;)

    • avatar MsMisery August 11, 2011, 1:58 pm

      I like her, too. I thought I was the only one!

      *rides with RedEyeGuy into the sunset*

      • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 2:51 pm

        Nope. I’m a ridiculously huge Lady Gaga fan. Gone to both of her concerts dressed up! :)

      • avatar Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich August 11, 2011, 10:50 pm

        Can I get in on that sunset riding? One of my guilty pleasures is working in my lab alone, because I can blast “Bloody mary” while I work.

    • avatar beans629 August 11, 2011, 2:10 pm

      Concur.
      I don’t like all of her music but she is hella courageous to even get on stage with a bubble dress or a meat dress. That girl has huge cajones.

      Actually, she is incredibly talented but to survive in the music biz you gotta have a gimmick to sell those records. *shrug* That’s how it is.

      Although, I would say if she worked in the office next to me and came in with a bubble dress or meat dress I would be like…’that girl is INSANE and when are they going to fire her crazy ass.’ :-)

  • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 1:24 pm

    I might be the only one, but I kind of think he probably didn’t go alone. Girlfriend is mad at him and asks who he went with, is he really going to throw all of his other friends under the bus just to satisfy his girlfriend’s curiosity?

    • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 1:33 pm

      Hmm. No, I disagree. I think most men are aware going to a strip club by themselves is kind of weird. Seems like it would be more likely he’d lie and say some of his friends went to save himself.

      • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 1:35 pm

        Unless he probably doesn’t think his girlfriend would focus on the “weird” aspect (which she didn’t seem to in the letter). It’s everyone else who’s finding it weird.

        • avatar Maracuya August 11, 2011, 1:37 pm

          The way I read it she did find it weird, or at least noteworthy.

          “I confronted him and he confessed he went ALONE and got a lap dance.”

    • katie katie August 11, 2011, 8:59 pm

      i think under the circumstances, he may have went alone. you get into a huge fight with your girlfriend and then go out to a strip club to be alone and take your mind off of your troubles for a little bit? that doesn’t seem so odd to me… if they hadn’t fought, then yes i totally wouldn’t believe him.

  • avatar LeahW. August 11, 2011, 1:30 pm

    Yeah, I don’t think “that’s just what guys do” is really applicable here. If a stripper tackled him at the mall and started gyrating on him, you couldn’t fault him for enjoying it. But he sought the stripper out despite the fact that he was in a committed relationship and there are plenty of guys out there that wouldn’t have done the same.

    I mean, I am ridiculously attracted to Alexander Skarsgard and I don’t think my boyfriend should be threatened by that. But if I were someplace and Alexander Skarsgard walked into the room, I don’t think I could trust myself not to throw myself at the guy. Now, I think it’s ridiculously unlikely that he would take me up on the offer (just like 99% of strippers would never take things further than a lap dance with a client), but throwing myself at another man is still disrespectful to my boyfriend. If I can’t trust myself not to try to rip Alexander Skarsgard’s clothes off in real life, in addition to my fantasy life, I shouldn’t be talking to him at all.

    Unless you and your boyfriend had a previous discussion sometime in the past two years giving him a “pass” to go to strip clubs, he should have assumed that you wouldn’t been comfortable with it and abstained. Not because it’s “serious” in any emotional or long-lasting way, but because it’s disrespectful.

    • landygirl Landygirl August 11, 2011, 1:45 pm

      I’m sensing that you have a thing for Alexander Skarsgard :-) Eric is much cuter than Bill.

    • avatar LeahW. August 12, 2011, 9:06 am

      Wow, a lot of controversy here! Just wanted to use a silly example to illustrate how “fantasy’s” that involve real, physical people aren’t just fantasies anymore. Or perhaps all those thumbs down signs are from Bill fans…? ;)

  • avatar AKchic August 11, 2011, 1:38 pm

    *laugh* The Strip Club debate.

    I’ve got no personal problem with a decently run strip club. I know a few strippers and have been to a few clubs. Hell, even bought my 2nd husband a lapdance before.

    The point is sexual attention that he doesn’t have to work for. No flirting, no buying drinks, no cheap pick up lines, etc. Just wave a little cash and bam – attention. In respectable clubs, there are rules against sleeping with patrons. If you are caught prostituting yourself – you’re terminated.

    LW – if you were on a break from the relationship, then you have no justification for being mad at him for going to a strip club. You weren’t together. He could have slept with another woman (or another man) and he didn’t need your permission because you two weren’t together. You were incommunicado at YOUR express order. He wanted to distract himself from that – and he found a great way to distract himself from it.
    Why he would find Lady Gaga “hot” is beyond me, but, I’ve seen stranger things. She’s too horsey for my personal tastes, and her substance use is still a turn-off, as well as her questionable fashion-sense.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 1:46 pm

      a few of my closest friends are strippers and I can agree with you it is just attention that they finally dont have to work for. However I dont think it was cool of him to go there… but it was also petty of her to basically shut him out for a few hours. I think they were both being immature honestly.

      • avatar AKchic August 11, 2011, 2:49 pm

        Agree that there is a level of immaturity there, and definitely there needs to be some sort of work on their communication skills.

        I’d be more interested in knowing what caused the initial fight that got her to decide that a communications black-out was the answer in the first place. Ot might put things in perspective. Although, I think that if he were a frequent patron of the exotic/erotic arts; she would have mentioned it.

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:01 pm

          yeah I am curious too. Seems that when I have a problem with a guy I am in a relationship with the last thing I want him to do is leave so I can sit there cryine by myself lol. I like to problem solve and talk things out so there are no lingering bad feelings.

    • landygirl Landygirl August 11, 2011, 1:46 pm

      Ross?

      • avatar AKchic August 11, 2011, 2:46 pm

        Who?

      • avatar Jamie August 12, 2011, 8:59 pm

        You don’t know who Ross is?!?!

    • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 2:49 pm

      Going on the Lady Gaga arguement, yes, she weird, out-there, drag queen-esque BUT she does have a hot body! & she does show it off a lot (when she’s not wearing circus tents & raw meat), so maybe that’s what he was referring to about the stripper looking like Lady Gaga?

      • avatar AKchic August 11, 2011, 5:58 pm

        Possibly. I’m of the opinion that in the skin department “showing less is more”. You don’t need to be in dental floss to look erotically attractive.

        Or, if he thinks like I do and that Gaga has a horse face – maybe he was at a donkey show? *shudder*

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 6:08 pm

          HAHAHA she does have a horse face lol!!!!

  • avatar EC was here August 11, 2011, 1:43 pm

    I also think it’s weird that he went alone. He may have gone with other guys and he’s just trying to protect his friends. Most guys don’t go to that kind of place alone, and especially on a Saturday night. I like Art’s and Joe’s response the best. I think what would bother me the most is knowing that while I was at home crying after a fight he was getting his crotch grinded on by a nasty stripper. I’m so glad that I never have to worry about this with my husband. He honestly thinks that strip clubs and porn are nasty and has never been to one/looked at it the entire 12 years we’ve been together.
    I kept expecting to read “We were on a break!” (famous Ross line from Friends). I

  • avatar Laurel August 11, 2011, 2:13 pm

    You both sound really immature. Learn how to date like adults.

    • avatar Amber August 11, 2011, 2:13 pm

      jinx!

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:13 pm

      agree! This whole thing is silly and mostly caused by the LW in the first place.

  • avatar Amber August 11, 2011, 2:13 pm

    The LW sounds really immature, relationship-wise, for a 30 year old.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 2:16 pm

      I agree! But her boyfriend seems to be at the same maturity level as well, seeing that he was bragging about a stripper at his age lol.

      • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 2:48 pm

        You’re the LWer, aren’t you?

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:02 pm

          uh no lol. My bf lives out of state at the moment and I would never be so immature as to make him leave in the middle of a dispute haha.

      • avatar AKchic August 11, 2011, 2:53 pm

        *laugh*

        Guys will ALWAYS brag about strippers and conquests!

        It’s a one-upmanship kind of thing. Partially to rub it in that he got something the other guy didn’t; partially to knock on the guy for not being able to clear his schedule and come hang out, etc.
        It’s like when some females tell another “Oh, you really should have come with us to the mall, there was a great shoe sale” or “there was this really cute guy” or something like that.

      • avatar Marie August 11, 2011, 7:19 pm

        I just find it weird that a guy at his age(assuming he’s the same age as the LW) is still going to strip clubs.

        • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 7:23 pm

          18-45 is a pretty fair demographic for men who FREQUENTLY go to strip clubs. Seriously, there is nothing weird about this guy going to a strip club.

    • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 2:46 pm

      Yeah, the whole “I never want to see/speak to you again in my LIFE. EVER!” sounds like something out of Degrassi.

      • avatar kerrycontrary August 11, 2011, 2:53 pm

        I get the whole “I never want to see or speak to you ever” if its something really serious and you can actually back that threat up. But since the LW and BF ran back into each others arms only a few days later, I sense that this immature way of fighting happens often in their relationship. And I think that most 30 year olds have realize that strippers are just there for entertainment and though we dont prefer our BF’s to go to strip clubs, it happens time to time and its nothing to make a huge deal out of.

        • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 3:27 pm

          Yeah that’s what I meant. If she said that at 30, I would assume it was some ground breaking ultimate betrayal, but as you said, they got back together really soon after so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t THAT awful.

  • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 2:15 pm

    I don’t go to strip clubs. Of course, I don’t have to… Walk into pretty much ANY gay bar in LA (or across the nation, I suspect) and they just “happen” to have hot twenty one year old underwear boys dancing up on a table for tips. That there should tell you all a great deal about male sexuality — both gay and straight. Guys like to look. It’s just how they are wired. Guys like to look.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 2:19 pm

      So true! I dated a male gogo dancer for a while, guys deff like to look! I never could relate tho because I really get nothing out of looking at a guy, I much prefer the one I am in love with.

      • avatar IcedVentiRedEyeGuy - in Chitown bay-bay! August 11, 2011, 2:58 pm

        I call BS.

        • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:03 pm

          thats fine. I am more into mental attraction than physical attraction but I can deff understand why most people wouldnt get that.

          • avatar MissDre August 11, 2011, 3:06 pm

            I’m with you on this one Katie. When I’m in love, the man I’m with the sexiest man in the world, in my eyes. There’s nobody better looking, I’m not even attracted celebrities. But that’s just me, I don’t know if many other girls feel the same way.

            • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 3:15 pm

              seriously thats how I am!!! Not many people believe me when I say it but its true. When I am completely into somone body and soul I cannot fathom lusting for someone else. I guess we are just wired different lol. Glad I am not alone in my thinking! :)

            • avatar AKchic August 11, 2011, 6:02 pm

              When it comes to guys – I don’t care how they look, so long as they have other qualities that I’m looking for. Intelligence, sci-fi nerd qualities, non-doucheness, etc.

              Women – I WANT INTELLIGENCE. If you happen to look good, even better, but it’s not a requirement. I want some confidence and dammit, you had better not be one of those “I had a tictac yesterday, I’m done eating for the week” kinda girls.

      • avatar addison August 12, 2011, 12:05 am

        What HAVEN’T you done, Katie? Your life story must be riveting.

        • avatar Katie August 12, 2011, 2:06 am

          I have yet to canoe the amazon river

    • parton_doll parton_doll August 11, 2011, 2:54 pm

      You continue to be my favorite bgm. You always say what I’m thinking, just in a much plainer way.

    • avatar Blitzen August 12, 2011, 11:55 am

      Guys do like to look. In this case, he got a lap dance. Too far, IMO.

  • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 2:42 pm

    I have to agree with Joe on this one. It’s not the fact that he went, it’s the fact that he went after a bad fight. I don’t know if I’d be comfortable with my boyfriend going straight to a stip club right after a fight, however, you should really be more careful with the way you carry yourself during these fights. If there’s one thing a relationship cannot lack it’s respect. Once respect is gone, so is the relationship. I’m pretty sure he didn’t like being kicked out by his girlfriend while she’s screaming “I never want to want to see/speak to you again!” If he really did something that terrible, that deserved that, well then maybe you should evaluate your relationship!
    Strip clubs aren’t such a big deal, it depends more on how the guy handles it. If he’s going very often where he almost rather be there then with you, I’d say, yeahh that’s a problem. But don’t feel embarrassed to be naked around him, he’s with you because he thinks your sexy just the way you are. Most guys watch porn, that doesn’t mean they’re not attracted to their wives/girlfriends. Again, it depends on how they HANDLE it. He didn’t tell you about it because, well, he didn’t really have to. You told him to get out forever so that’s what he was thinking!
    I really think you need to re-evaluate the reality of your relationship. If you want to be with him, let go of the insecurity & choose your words carefully when you argue. If you realize this relationship isn’t healthy, then MOA.

  • avatar Pinky August 11, 2011, 2:47 pm

    I think there’s a little bit of weirdness with the time line. I think they broke up first, then they got back together and then he went to a strip club alone.

    If you’re single and you go to a strip club, hey, that’s your business. But, if you’re attached and if your significant other isn’t cool with it AND you go alone AND you get a lap dance, well all kinds of trust issues arise.

    I don’t think this is a debate about whether or not people approve of strip clubs and lap dances, I think this is about honesty and communication. The LW was happy to be back together with her boyfriend and then had this trust bomb dropped on her. If he downplays her feelings because it’s no big deal, they’re obviously not on the same page emotionally.

    Really, it could be anything. It could be staying up all night playing computer games, smoking a joint, chatting up an ex-girlfriend, sending a dick photo via chatroulette, eating a hot dog when your significant other is a vegan, voting for the opposite political party from your significant other, etc. There needs to be transparency and honesty. If any of these are hot-button topics for your significant other and you’re not willing to curtail them, you aren’t compatible.

    • avatar honeybeenicki August 11, 2011, 4:01 pm

      I am still confused on the timeline because she talks about having this fight, breaking off communication and now its all good but doesn’t say when that was. At the end of the letter she says “while I was home crying about our fight a beautiful naked girl was taking his money and dancing privately for him” which makes me think this was a recent separation/get back together and it occurred during that “off” time, otherwise why was she crying at home?

      • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 5:42 pm

        The time line was SO confusing to me, too. I analyzed it for the longest time before I finally THINK I figured it out. They broke up. That night or soon after he went to the strip club. Then they got back together and all was well UNTIL he pocket dialed her and she overheard him talking about the strip club adventure which happened earlier in the week… post break up — but before reconciliation.

        • Budj Budjer August 12, 2011, 1:59 pm

          She is fueling make up sex drama.

  • parton_doll parton_doll August 11, 2011, 2:53 pm

    Just thinking about some of the comments here about the guy talking to his friends … I don’t think you can put a lot of stock into him bragging to his co-worker/friend about the stripper. Guys communicate differently than girls and sometimes they just exhibit a lot more bravado. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything. I work in a male dominated field and hear crazy stuff all the time, but I know that these men mean no disrespect to their women, etc … they’re just locker room talking. Now whether or not he should have gone to the strip club in the first place … I don’t have an opinion on that.

    • avatar Desiree August 11, 2011, 6:01 pm

      I know what you mean. And, the thing is, women do it too, except we don’t call it locker room talk. But when a group of girls gets together, even a lovely sweet group of girls, the way we discuss men is definitely not how we would discuss them if they were listening. We still love and respect our guys; it’s just a bonding thing between women. I think the same is true for men.

  • sobriquet sobriquet August 11, 2011, 3:20 pm

    Maybe I’m just in a bad mood today, but this LW really irked me. The ONLY reason you should EVER cut off all communication with your significant other for an extended period of time is if you are thinking about ending the relationship. It’s cruel and extremely petty to do it for any other reason.

    [Side note: My ex used to do this all the time and it drove me crazy. Days would go by while I sat completely in the dark about our relationship. I didn't know if we were still in a relationship. It was maddening. So maddening that I broke up with him during one of these infuriating "breaks" because I needed someone who would communicate with me instead of completely separating.]

    LW: I’m assuming that since you cut off all communication and were crying about the fight, you WERE thinking about ending the relationship. So your boyfriend was probably in a pretty bad emotional state of mind, too, and went to a strip club. BIG DEAL. Don’t expect him to cope with the potential demise of your relationship in the same way that you do. He did nothing wrong. Now you can’t get naked around him? You do know that your boyfriend watches porn, right? You seem very, very insecure about your relationship. Hopefully you can deal with your issues before your insecurities inevitably ruin your relationship.

    Sorry for being so harsh.

    • avatar Pinky August 11, 2011, 6:45 pm

      Sobriquet, I see where you’re coming from. However, not everybody fights in the same way. I come from a family where people scream obscenities and throw punches at each other (wanna come over for Thanksgiving some time?). As a result, I need to take a step back and process my feelings and come back with healthy “when you say _____, it makes me feel _____.” If you corner me, I will punch you. My emotionally abusive ex used to pick fights with me, interrupt me when I tried to defend myself and generally make me feel like crap. The only recourse I had with this guy was to shut down and not respond to him because anything I said was going to be picked apart and used against me. Eventually, I cut off all contact with him after breaking up with him.

      For some people, yelling is no big deal. For others, it’s a deal breaker. Mr. Pinky went silent for an hour when I yelled at the cat for peeing on the vinyl chair. When I figured out what the problem was, I asked him if he thought I would yell at him like that. That was, indeed, his conclusion. I told Mr. Pinky that if he EVER peed on my chair, I would yell at him. I would also use the squirt bottle.

      • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 7:02 pm

        love it! thanks for the laugh. I totally get where you are coming from.

  • avatar IdaTarbell August 11, 2011, 5:49 pm

    For me, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with my guy going to a strip club without talking to me about it, and I’d never be comfortable with a lap dance. I imagine many a boyfriend wouldn’t be pleased with a well-oiled, scantily clad man rubbing himself on their girlfriend for money, so I don’t see why it should be any different the other way around without mutual understanding. If you and your SO are cool with lap dances and strippers, cool. But I personally wouldn’t have much tolerance for it.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 6:48 pm

      agreed!

    • avatar Blitzen August 12, 2011, 12:02 pm

      Well said.

  • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 7:01 pm

    LW, please read http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com, it’s a blog all about sex work, feminism, and a mature view of sexual politics. You’re 30 years old, grow the fuck up.

    • avatar Katie August 11, 2011, 7:03 pm

      is it just my perception or have the commenters on this site gotten meaner and meaner?

      • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 7:05 pm

        Only with sufficient provocation.

        • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 7:12 pm

          I agree. I really do think the LWs lately have been pushing many of our buttons more and more. I had a very hard time with this His Take contribution especially as the LW just made me crazy for some reason. Her letter was vague, and very hard to follow. And then her dilemma was — to me anyway — much ado about nothing. PS — Oh, and far, far too many 30 year olds sounding like they are 12…

          • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 7:19 pm

            I don’t think it’s the LWs, I think it’s us. We’re all interacting with the same people, and I think we keep pushing each others buttons. Kind of like when the members of the Real World are locked together and they keep getting on each others nerves and getting nastier and nastier.

            I’ve actually noticed a trend, how the first few comments usually aren’t too bad and aren’t too angry, and then it’s like as the comments get later and later, people start getting more and more upset and feed off of each other. Comments that only have thumbs ups within the first few hours of posting are suddenly laden with thumbs downs. Or maybe people just get crabbier as the day wears on.

            • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 7:22 pm

              I think it’s the LWs… lately there has been a higher percentage of letters written by people who should be adults but are acting like 13-year-olds. It’s annoying, and it’s hard to have sympathy when this person really should be a freaking adult and there’s so many REAL problems that deserve to be discussed and analyzed, but instead they’re playing silly mind/emotional games and expecting us and Wendy to hold their hand and coddle them through it.

              • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 7:24 pm

                I haven’t noticed any change in the LWs, but I’ve noticed a change in the way people react to the LWs. Just take a look at some of the older posts on DW or on TF. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of change to me.

                • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 7:25 pm

                  Maybe the regulars are just getting tired of the same old whine-and-dance?

                  • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 7:27 pm

                    I think we’ve all just become pessimists over time.

              • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 7:31 pm

                I’d like to agree with you here. But now that I think about it, I think you are wrong. Nobody is acting like they are 13. Actually, it’s much more along the lines of 7, or maybe 8. ;)

            • bittergaymark bittergaymark August 11, 2011, 7:28 pm

              Also, lets face it. The world REALLY has gone to hell lately. Economic meltdown. Riots in the UK. Politician everywhere are just fucking morons on both sides acting like mentally challenged idiots… And so (surprise, surprise!) many of these “problems” seem more and more insignificant by the minute. “My boyfriend sent me an ecard!” “Mine went to a strip club!” “Mine still works with his EX!” Meanwhile, damn near everybody I know is either out of work, hating their job and hopelessly stuck, or increasingly under SERIOUS water with their house and trapped… It’s all just… very depressing. The patience of many people is simply at an end. I know mine is.

              • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 7:31 pm

                I think this is the first time we’ve replied to each other civilly. We deserve a pat on the back.

              • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 7:35 pm

                Ehh, there’s always been problems throughout the world & there’s always been problems petty problems w/in individuals. Since this site is a relationship advice column, it’s going to attract multiple relationship issues & yeah, many of them are petty, because honestly, if you have a good healthy mature relationship, you don’t really need a stranger’s advice on how to handle it. I’ve been thinking that some people may be making letters up just to see what we say & if they can get their letter on the internet. At least I’ve hoped that’s how it is. Either way, there’s always issues, bigger ones & minor ones. It’s humanity.

                • CatsMeow CatsMeow August 11, 2011, 8:18 pm

                  The petty ones make for more interesting comments.

                  • avatar Marie August 11, 2011, 8:45 pm

                    I’ve noticed that some of the pettiest letters don’t have very many responses though.Probably because the answer is just so obvious that it’s just a waste of time to type in what the solution is.That’s how I see it.

                    • avatar Morgan August 12, 2011, 11:18 am

                      I do think that’s true. There have been a lot of letters this week where i opened up the comment window but then was like “I just can’t…even…what?”

      • avatar AnitaBath August 11, 2011, 7:19 pm

        Yourself included?

  • avatar GingerLaine August 11, 2011, 7:32 pm

    Spaceboy & Sarah are very noticeably absent from this thread. I can’t even begin to imagine what the two of them would have to say about this business.

    • avatar Britannia August 11, 2011, 7:44 pm

      BOINK! The geeks shall inherit the Earth!

      *looks around*

      Usually that draws him…

    • avatar LTC039 August 11, 2011, 7:44 pm

      I’ve noticed that too! It’s time for them to come back!

      • avatar kate August 11, 2011, 9:03 pm

        They’ve been missing Lately…i’ve also noticed the LW lately have been overly childish.

  • avatar parrt August 11, 2011, 8:59 pm

    not paying for strip clubs.

    internet porn is better than an ugly bitch crawling with disease.

  • katie katie August 11, 2011, 9:11 pm

    i just think that he had to go somewhere to clear his head, be alone, and get some positive attention after your fight. i dont think that you can get mad at anyone for their choice of that… i mean atleast he didn’t go do a bunch of cocaine, right? some people would have done that.

    look, everyone has to go out and clear their head sometimes and just think about nothing. a lot of people drink, some smoke, some do drugs, some will go out and find someone to have sex with, whatever- there are endless ways to do this, and so your boyfriend went to a strip club. i really dont think you should be looking at what he actually did, but what actions caused him to get to that spot. i can guarantee you that if you asked if he would have rather not been drawn to a stripclub to ease his mind for a few hours, he would say yes. i can guarantee that EVERYONE would say that. would i have loved to not have such a terrible job (one i have since left, yay!) that it drove me to drink almost weekly just so i could clear my head of the stress and negativity for a few hours? YES!! omg, please turn back time and do this for me!

    i think you need to not be focusing on strip clubs, and focusing more on the actual fight that you had that caused such a problem you had to tell him to get out and you didnt want to talk to him- this ended in you crying at home, and him at a strip club, which were both products of that fight, which i would bet both you would have rather not done. that is such a larger issue here.

  • avatar Fabelle August 12, 2011, 9:20 am

    Okay, I don’t think the LW is right– the letter is too confusing for me to really give advice on that– but I am really fascinated by all the commenters who have NO PROBLEM with their boyfriend/husband whatever going to a strip club & getting a lap dance? I mean, just being there is one thing, and I can see the porn argument (even though strippers are REAL people that can interact with you) but I wouldn’t be okay with my BF getting a lap dance where there is touching involved. And this doesn’t mean I’m an insecure prude…I just think a reasonable expectation in a relationship is that your partner doesn’t let his genitals get grinded on by another naked person.

    Some commenters who share my opinion have been getting thumbed down and called out for being “judgey” but I don’t understand why. If you’re calling us “insecure” “prudish” “immature” whatever, then aren’t YOU being judgey? The back-and-forth debate is pretty entertaining to read, but it’d be nice if everyone can sort of express their differing opinions without resorting to negatively categorizing people.

    • avatar Maracuya August 12, 2011, 11:08 am

      Truth. I have a mindset that for random occasions (bachelor parties and the like) it’s fine to go to a strip club.

      I think everyone has their own comfort level and most of the people who are expressing that they’re not okay with it have that right to. Everyone is different, and I don’t think they should be thumbed down for it as long as they’re not being offensive.

    • avatar GingerLaine August 12, 2011, 11:35 am

      I think there’s a mutual respect as far as that goes. I am one of those commenters who has no problem with my husband at a strip club. You disagree. That’s OK. You’ve given your opinion very respectfully, as have a number of other people who also share your opinion.

      On the flip side, there have been some commenters who have been spoken VERY negatively & judgmentally on both sides of the topic, and to me, that shows a lack of respect for other people. Those people have been thumbed down & called out because to disagree is one thing; to disrespect, call names, and mock is another. And if you’re going to communicate that way, you have to expect to get the same in return. I think this discussion would have been & stayed very productive and insightful were it not for some of those people.

    • avatar L August 13, 2011, 10:34 pm

      “I just think a reasonable expectation in a relationship is that your partner doesn’t let his genitals get grinded on by another naked person.”

      YES.
      I don’t understand why things like this are regarded as acceptable. I trust my guy totally, but I should be the one naked and on him!! :)

  • avatar Blitzen August 12, 2011, 10:48 am

    Lol… Jarek. Nail, meet head.

    However, I don’t find what this guy did acceptable. So they had a fight..he went to a strip club..got a lap dance.. no big deal?? How about if he got a lap dance from a woman who wasn’t a stripper? Isn’t that crossing a line in a committed, monogamous relationship? Why is it ok just cos he paid for it?

    • avatar GingerLaine August 12, 2011, 11:22 am

      I guess it depends on your committed, monogamous relationship. It’s not crossing the line for mine. But then, to me, what happens at a strip club is a business transaction where nothing personal is exchanged. And escorts don’t count because although, yes, that is also a business transaction, something very personal is exchanged and you can’t exactly call yourself monogamous if you’re picking up prostitutes.

      But I can absolutely understand why you would disagree. I think it all comes down to the people in the relationship, their experiences, how well they communicate what their expectations are, and what their relationship means to them.

      To some women, their husband speaking to a woman that he does not work with or is related to is crossing the line. A friend of mine was married in January. We haven’t seen him since, and had been wondering why. We recently discovered that his wife is VERY Fundamentalist, and she feels that he shouldn’t be spending ANY time (even in a group) with single women. They only attend “couples events.” While I respect her opinion, I also think that’s nuts, and I’d never do that to my husband because A) I trust HIM, I don’t have to trust or know anyone else. B) I wouldn’t tolerate him forbidding me from seeing my single male friends.

      And I think that’s the rub. I’d be furious if my husband forbid me from going somewhere or seeing someone because of his own jealousy, insecurity, disapproval or whatever it may be. So I don’t forbid him from doing things either. We’re both grown, and can make good decisions in the context of our relationship because we want to, not because the other has forced us to do so. And I love it. :)

      • avatar Blitzen August 12, 2011, 12:31 pm

        I understand what you are saying. If there is a mutual agreement that strip clubs/ lap dances are ok, that’s fine. I don’t think such an agreement existed in the LW’s relationship. Which makes what this guy did sorta messed up. Maybe not MOA- worthy. But messed up.

        {Naturally, what I said doesn’t apply if THEY WERE ON A BREAK!!! That’s a whole other argument}

        PS- This entire thread has been extremely entertaining. Thank you, DW community. :)

  • CatsMeow CatsMeow August 12, 2011, 11:52 am

    I have a couple of QUESTIONS – *mostly* for the menz:

    1. Role Reversal. WHAT IF you got mad at your girlfriend, told her you didn’t want to see her/speak to her until “further notice” and then she went out to an all nude male strip club and got a private lap dance from a dude?

    **Side note** I have noticed differences between female and male strippers, MAINLY that a male stripper will do a LOT for a LITTLE. For instance, in my experience, you can wave a $1 bill at them and they’ll get all up ON you. Have you guys seen the lap dances these guys give? They pick you up and put you in all different sex positions, hump you from all different angles, and sometimes lick/bite the boobs through the clothes. Oh, and usually they let you touch them. FEMALE strippers will do the titties in the face for paying people when they’re on the stage, and it seems like the lap dances usually consist of a guy sitting on his hands for the length of ONE SONG while she dances on him and they make awkward conversation and a security guard looks on. I’m sure that MORE happens in some cases, especially in the private rooms, but USUALLY I think it’s kinda lame. Right?

    2. How often do guys get off through the pants during a lap dance? For real, I’m curious.

    ***Does it matter if one “gets off”? Like, is it MORE cheating if there is an orgasm involved, even if it’s not through anal/vaginal/oral/manual stimulation AND there is no chance of bringing a disease home to your partner?

  • avatar L August 13, 2011, 10:29 pm

    Reading this thread has made me think more deeply about my stance on strip clubs.
    I’m engaged and my fiance has never been to a strip club before. I have, actually. Long story short, I was 18- went w/ some friends thinking it would be a fun titty bar. Totally wrong. Live sex show on stage, ladies spread eagle doing talent shows of sorts with their bits and various inanimate objects. yeahhh. anywayyy…

    Bachelor party is imminent- I understand the tradition of doing the strip club thing. My fiance’s brothers are into it, it’s a dude thing, yada yada. However, my fiance has never been to a strip club, never really expressed interest/tried to go to one- so why would he suddenly go for his bach party?

    This is a guy who enjoys his porn when I’m not around and I’m okay with it (I indulge every now and again, as well), but I feel that going to a strip club is different, especially since going to a strip club for your bach party automatically means lap dances and lots of them. And why is it okay to have a random naked lady in your face, getting you riled up?

    Maybe I’d feel better if I knew the lap dance wouldn’t happen. Oh well. Just wondering if anyone else has an opinion on this.

    And for the record, I think that someone who goes to a strip club alone for a lap dance is pretty sad…

    P.S. mildly related- but hearing a male OBGYN talk about going to a strip club…. thoughts? I was pretty disgusted by this…

  • avatar memomachine August 14, 2011, 3:04 pm

    Hmmmm.

    While the Lady Gaga thing is weird going to a strip club alone isn’t all that uncommon. To be frankly honest there was one period of time where I would go to a local strip club for lunch because it was nearby, served a great lunch special (burger + fries for $5) and I got a floor show.

    IMO the weird part of lunching at a strip club is where I got to know the strippers and club DJ on a first name basis.

  • avatar memomachine August 14, 2011, 3:13 pm

    Hmmmm.

    @ L

    “Maybe I’d feel better if I knew the lap dance wouldn’t happen. Oh well. Just wondering if anyone else has an opinion on this.”

    1. Ask him to not indulge in a lap dance; but offer to give him one yourself anytime he asks for one. Win-win on that issue.

    2. Bachelor parties are -not- for the groom; they are entirely for his friends. That was explained to me early in life by some friends of mine. This is an opportunity for married friends to have a night to go a little crazy before going home to the wife. As a guy who has gone to a wide variety of bachelor parties they generally tend to be rather blah.

    To defuse any issues just ask your guy to keep it in check.

  • avatar Some Guy August 14, 2011, 6:18 pm

    So everyone, including the authors of the piece offering advice, seem to have things mixed up, or are at least jumping to conclusions.

    This is how the letter starts:

    “I’m 30 years-old and I had a fight with my boyfriend of two years; I told him I didn’t want to see him or speak to him until I was ready. We have since made up and our relationship seems like it’s brand new, butterflies and all… BUT yesterday”

    If I am reading that correctly, yes, they had a fight, but from there is where you all seem to have the story wrong. Let’s sum it up:

    1. They had a fight.
    2. They “have since made up,” which seems a much longer span of time than saying they made up ‘”yesterday” or “last week,” and the relationship seems brand new.
    3. Yesterday, she found out about him going to the club the past Saturday. Meaning he went to a club within the last few days.

    Please tell me where anyone mentions the boyfriend having gone to the club whilst in the middle of the fight. It is one thing to go to get your mind off of things, especially when she seemed so final and angry in that period where he was cut off, but it is another thing entirely to get in a fight, make up, and THEN go to a strip club.

    Check your reading comprehension, folks. If her relationship is now “solid,” after the fight, why then would he still go to a stripclub and brag about it? Seems we have two people who might not be on the same page here as to where their relationship stands, or at least the standards of a long term relationship.

    Why did she listen to all six minutes of the accidental message? Who knows. We humans are a curious people though, and perhaps she did it because this was an issue before, or something else was along those lines, and while they were back together with butterflys on the surface, deep down she still didn’t trust him entirely. Seems she might have been right.

  • avatar Some Guy August 14, 2011, 6:41 pm

    Yeah, just re-read it and now I’m gonna eat some crow. I blame her poor wording. She cried over their fight while he was out getting a dance.

    Still though. Getting in a fight and going to a strip club because of it to get your mind off of things seems kinda in poor taste. Wouldn’t a bar and a six pack suffice? The only reason I could see myself going to a strip club after getting in a fight with my girlfriend of two years would be to get revenge, or because I really just don’t care about her and the relationship all that much.

    • avatar Britannia August 14, 2011, 7:37 pm

      Frankly, I’d prefer he go to a strip club where I know he probably won’t end up meeting someone who is new, interesting, and NOT being paid to pay attention to him, because it’s much more likely that he will find a replacement or temporary bedmate at a bar than at a strip club.

      True, it would probably have been less troublesome for him to simply stay home if he knew that his (temporarily ex) girlfriend would take issue with it, but who are we to judge what he considers to be a good way to de-stress? If we judge him for going to a strip club, that means everyone’s personal preferences for decompression are up for judgment… if someone doesn’t want their own preferences to be analyzed, judged, and chastised (and honestly, any activity can be found faulty or repugnant by SOMEONE), then they shouldn’t be doing that to other people.

  • avatar Rock n' Rolla August 14, 2011, 7:17 pm

    Hmm. This whole thread is way off of where I am coming from. At the risk of sounding like an old-fashioned guy… let me tell you why I don’t go to strip clubs (anymore – not that they ever did anything for me to begin with).

    To start, I’m a fairly attractive Hispanic guy in my mid 30′s. I’ve been married for about 3 years. Before that, I had more girlfriends than I can count. Most didn’t mean much to me. some meant nothing at all. But I didn’t really know it…

    Dating or not, I used to get bored sexually with who I was with and sometimes surf porn, or go to a strip club with some friends (never alone – that ‘alone’ thing DOES seem kind of weird)… but nevertheless, I’d have my fantasies and then… onwards to the next thrill.

    I didn’t really see my behavior back then as a ‘threat’ to normal, emotional development or my ability to actually love another human being. I was wrong.

    The problem is this… that after a while, one comes to understand that true love isn’t really about THRILLS and sexual fantasies. Those things are all great, and yes… you can have them with the right person that you also LOVE, but to have them sans love and commitment (like I did for so many years), is really just like taking methadone for your soul. After a while, you don’t see or feel the distinctions between true love and emotional connection, and the shot of dopamine you release into your system when you’re getting fired up in the back room with a stripper (sorry if that comes across as too graphic, but I’m going to lay it down as I see it). And then, when you really find the right person you’re supposed to be with… the urge for the high doesn’t stop. You still look at other people and fantasize about them, which can (despite certain claims above) hurt your partner’s feelings. You have to fight with this forever-present, ‘wandering-eye’, because that’s how you built yourself to be and that’s what you programmed yourself with.

    And let me just say something about the whole comparing your partner’s body to a celeb’s or stripper’s body. If that’s what someone values in life, then that’s what they should shoot for and end up being with. Don’t settle for being with someone as a second place runner up, and then fantasize about other people! That whole concept is emotionally bankrupt, and harmless or not (to begin with it might be harmless), it will only lead to someone getting hurt.

    If, however, you can change your programming to value other things about human beings other than just genitalia, how theirs make your feel, and swimsuit bodies,… then at the end of that road you might actually find love. That’s why some people actually choose to STAY together into their old age, and also why (some people I know – myself included) say “I Love You” to the person they are with ACTIONS as well as words, by NOT looking at other people or fantasizing about them or going to strippers and enjoying their body instead of the girl you’re with. It’s like telling the person you love, “You’re enough for me.”

    And just one more sidenote about the concept of the ‘harmless fantasy’ (which I am sure every guy will pounce on me for – whatever, don’t care)… Is it really ‘harmless’ to go to a strip club and have a live, flesh and blood girl walk you down the hallway to a private room, and then have her take off her clothes and perform a ‘harmless’ 45 minute grind on your crotch, all the while hugging you, whispering in your ear, giggling, and a lot of times, encouraging you to put your hands anywhere you want them on her body? (I am sure this might get me banned for being too graphic, but I want to make sure that no one here is deluded into thinking that what goes on in most private rooms is just some cutesy, relatively tame encounter). The truth is, a lapdance IS a sex act (I simply can’t get anymore details because it would be too NSFW to say what FURTHER is liable to happen in that room). Anyone who thinks differently is delusional or simply unwilling to understand it. I get that today’s culture and media have portrayed this kind of sex act as ‘just a fantasy’ and ‘unemotional’ and ‘just a Vegas thrill’, what with movies like ‘The Hangover’ and all, but the reality is that all fantasies of this type have emotional consequences.

    As a guy I can speak firsthand to it. You DO start to value the person you are with a little less. Why should you invest more emotionally or intimately? You can have what you really want for a couple hundred and still have someone waiting for you at home to talk with and have fun with. You DO start to compare bodies and start to find your chosen mate at home LESS attractive. You DO start to tear the fabric of true love and intimacy between the two of you,… and if anyone doesn’t think so, then just apply the: “If you were there would it have hurt you.” RULE. If you do something without your mate/girlfriend around, and you apply this rule and you realize that it would hurt them, then it’s NOT just a fantasy. And if you realize that you really WANT the ability to have fantasies and have what you like, when you like it with whomever,… then you haven’t reached the point where you have found true love yet. And you should break up with whomever you are with, so you don’t end up hurting them.

    And it goes without saying, EVERY woman gets hurt when a guy does this. Just look at the person writing in. They were even on a ‘break’. She tried to act brave in the post, but you can see that she’s obviously hurt and confused by his behavior… and it all boils down to – “Wasn’t I enough?” OR “Why is he seeking pleasure and solace elsewhere when he should truly love and be running after me?!” And she’s absolutely right. He was having his cake and eating it too. That’s not love. Real love (in his situation) would have been sitting at home and asking you friends or family or someone you trust for advice, because you just had a fight with someone you want to be with for the rest of your life and you don’t want to lose them and you don’t know what to do,… to the point of tears even. OR…

    Real love (sometimes) is just letting someone go and being mature enough to get involved in another, healthy, committed relationship eventually… and not just hemorrage your intimacy points to some poor (probably unhappy) girl in a strip club who tells you what you want to hear and curses you in her mind as she makes you orgasm in your pants, just like the other 15 men today who did (if that last one doesn’t get my comment banned, then nothing will!). And yes, I know… there are even some women today who act sexually ‘tough’ and say “Yea! I’d love to be there and see my boyfriend get grinded on by another woman!” … but deep down I have yet to meet one woman that would REALLY put up with that sort of thing ad nauseum for any length of time, before feeling fairly worthless, and certainly not very special to the person they are with (but it also goes both ways… meaning sometimes they haven’t found the man they really love… and that’s why it just doesn’t affect them). Trust me, when a woman REALLY, TRULY loves a man … if she sees another woman on top of him kissing him, she will most likely kill her – such is the depth of emotion that true loves evokes in women, and such is level of physical manifestation in such a reaction.

    There are always rare exceptions and times when people might stray, but on the whole, I wanted to throw a whole new (albeit high unpopular) spin at this whole thread, in an effort to add a contrary point of view (one which I have lived) to what is quickly being absorbed into the human psyche as ‘normative’ fantasy behavior in today’s culture, and why it can be bad. I’m done writing my book. I’m going to go bang my wife and eat chocolate in bed now while blaring the TRON soundtrack in the background.

    Cheers all.

    • avatar Caesuras August 10, 2012, 1:22 am

      This is way old but Amen to that… And from someone who knows both sides.

      Porn I don’t have an issue with, strip clubs I do because it so easily becomes hands-on and in your face. The fantasies are killing true intimacy in real relationships. I can’t understand how so many people are ok with it but that’s their opinion and they’re entitled to it. Well done Rock n’ Rolla for a thorough analysis. Bravo.

    • avatar Nicole July 22, 2013, 3:28 pm

      Thank You for saying this! I know this is old but I full heartedly agree with you. I also think that a lot of people were being a bit nasty to the girl who got her feelings hurt. I would be devastated if this happened to me.

  • avatar Asteriks August 15, 2011, 7:16 am

    “Hey man, you should have been there to see this stripper with me at the club on Saturday, she looked like Lady Gaga,” and they both laughed.

    The basic premise of the girlfriend — accepted as a given by most people on this site — is hardly straightforward in the first place.

    From the quote, along with the laughter, it’s not even clear
    1) that the boyfriend was aroused
    2) that his thinking that a woman looking like Lady Gaga was necessarily sexy and
    3) that making the comparison was even a compliment (to Lady Gaga and/or to the stripper)

  • avatar Ann August 15, 2011, 1:46 pm

    I hate strip clubs because it’s not fair to me. I cannot speak for all women at ALL, but as a woman in a monogamous long term relationship, i myself would also like an opportunity to be in sexual situations devoid of intimacy or cheating guilt. Do you think women are 100% fulfilled by ONLY having their boyfriend or husband for sexually-related entertainment? No. Most of us women would probably like an extra outlet in that manner, too. Only difference is, there really is no outlet for women in this respect, other than ones that ARE cheating – we cannot help it that male strippers dont do it for us and all porn is created for males and just a bunch of non-arousal ram-rodding silliness. SO, with that said, if i, as a woman, am stuck with no other fun outlet for non-intimate, novel, emotionless sexually-related entertainment, than men shouldn’t have one either.

  • avatar Jim August 15, 2011, 8:01 pm

    Break up already the guy may turn into a serial killer if he stays with you.

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