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“I’m Tired of Waiting for My Boyfriend to Commit!”

I met my now boyfriend of four years about six years ago when we were both starting college. Now that we have been together, I would like to take the next step in our relationship and start making definitive plans, like say getting married and buying a house.

He tells me that, yes, he wants to get married, but right now is too soon for him. And he is very, very, very, wary of buying a house due to student loan debt. We also can’t agree on how many kids we’d like to have. I say I want three or four kids. He gives me the pained look and asks, “Really?”. I know with the economic crisis people are scaling back on the number of kids they have, but we are pretty well off financially. Still, he’d like just one. In fact, he really dislikes to even discuss children. He has these ideas that we will sacrifice our lives if we have them, meaning we will never have any fun ever again if we ever have a child. Every pained expression of his is also accompanied by the final phrase of “Someday, just not now. Like, awhile from now.” And he’s always talking about how people at his work are always complaining about their children. Well, they keep getting preggo, so it can’t be that awful, right? But he is sure it is. Yes, people tell goofy, funny, idiotic stories about the mess babies and kids make, but it’s funny!!! Hello?

We also can’t agree on smaller things, like vacations. He says, “Let’s take a vacation,” but, when I offer possible ideas, he turns them down. And then he has the audacity to complain that I never wanted to figure something out. Or I didn’t have a suitable back-up plan. Which really frosts my cookies.

Or, when we discuss any of the above, he goes and talks to his mother. He runs everything by her. I talk to my Dad about some things, but my father has a room temperature IQ and is a successful professional. Plus, I have the added bonus of having my own original ideas that are not swayed by every negative comment anyone ever had. Yeah, my boyfriend really knows how to keep my hopes and dreams in check.

Additionally, his family has different ideas about how a woman should behave, and, while I am definitely a lady, I am not going to make the same financial decisions as they did. My parents had to hunker down for years, based a mortgage on two incomes, beat cancer, raised two children (who are both doing well), and are living comfortably today because of the hunkering down years ago. His parents took more vacations then we did, they based their mortgage on one salary so his mom could stay at home, and today they are struggling (though they still have vacation money and new vehicles). I want to work just as hard as my parents did because the rewards are well worth it.

I also hate that every time I sit alone with his mother my boyfriend abandons me, and she just talks about herself. Or her beloved son (my boyfriend’s brother) — the man that threatened to do bodily harm to me and my boyfriend (he threatened to break down the door and kill us while we slept), and has made vulgar comments about how he would get what he really wanted from me). He is a pathetic, bottom-dwelling drunk, but the mother thinks he’s perfect and precious. This boy put a hole through a door! And ripped a locked car door open. SO, YES, I HATE HIM! I don’t want to talk about him. I don’t want to see him! I don’t want to go to their home! I don’t want to ever be associated with him! And because of this, I am a bitch who is pulling my boyfriend away from his family and “brainwashing” him.

Unfortunately, the influence that others have on him is so great. Every time he and I discuss something he excitedly repeats our ideas to his parents, they immediately shut him down, and I am once again let down over something, whether it’s future plans like marriage, or a home, or a vacation. Or, the best is when my idea is shut down and then a guy friend or his family repeats the same idea, and, all of a sudden, it’s great!

Why wasn’t it good enough when I said it? Why can’t we make plans without it going through his parents? Why can’t he accept that I will never trust or want to be around his brother? Why can’t he understand that his mother and brother make me uncomfortable? Why does he make slams about something goofy my family did when his own blood has treated me so poorly? Why can’t he follow through on anything??

So I ask you: does my boyfriend really want to be my husband or is he just a non-committal boyfriend? — Tired of Waiting for a Commitment

So… you basically can’t agree on anything, from how many kids you want — and when you want to have them — to where you want to vacation; you can’t stand his family and they don’t like you; he blows off all of your ideas and suggestions; and, frankly, it doesn’t sound like either of you really even likes the other. And, yet, you want to marry him? Why? Because you’re ready to start a family and he’s the person you’re currently in a relationship with? So you think it’s easier and faster to try to change him into the man you want him to be, even though it would mean being stuck with in-laws you can’t stand, rather than breaking up with him and finding someone whose values and dreams for the future better align with yours?

It’s not only not easier, it’s dumb as fuck, as you’d be signing on for many, many, MANY more issues and challenges ahead. Unless you want every single decision you make to be a fight, MOA. Unless you want to be unhappy for the rest of your life, MOA. Unless you want to be stuck with a man who doesn’t share your vision of the future and continues to shut you down and shit all over your dreams, MOA. This is not a relationship that should continue, and I didn’t need all nine of your paragraphs to figure that out.

***************

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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com.

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{ 216 comments… add one }

  • avatar ChemE June 3, 2013, 9:12 am

    Can I say preggo is awful, it’s a baby not spaghetti sauce.

    But, to your question. I’m not sure you listed anything you actually like about your boyfriend? You actually sound like you hate the guy. And sure, maybe he just pissed you off an you sent this letter in haste, maybe you actually like the guy. But even if I consider that, you still sound like you’d rather strangle him than marry him.

    Get the hell out of dodge!

    • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 11:04 am

      Lol..I didn’t read Wendy’s advice or any of the comments before I wrote mine…GET THE HELL OUTTA DODGE just seems to be the first to come to mind.

  • avatar Desiree June 3, 2013, 9:13 am

    Maybe the sex is really good? Otherwise I can’t fathom how this relationship has persisted for so long. Or, maybe it’s just the “safety” of a longterm relationship holding this together. Either way, so not worth it. LW, before you make plans to walk down the aisle, please find a man that you actually like to be waiting at the end of it.

  • avatar Older and (hopefully) wiser June 3, 2013, 9:14 am

    Lw, Did you really need Wendy to tell you this relationship wasn’t working? Really?

  • Fabelle Fabelle June 3, 2013, 9:21 am

    LW, I think you should actually be glad that your boyfriend hasn’t been rushing to commit. This union sounds…awful. You don’t agree on anything, from vacations, to kids, to how involved family should be in decision making. Can you imagine, you know, planning a WEDDING with him?

    Wendy’s right—it doesn’t seem like you two even ~like~ each other. He puts other people’s opinions over yours, or even straight-up ignores your opinions. You describe him as holding you back from your “hopes and dreams.” Instead of wanting this man to commit to you because you’re ready to settle down, please consider…just putting this relationship out of its misery. You will be much happier.

  • avatar oldie June 3, 2013, 9:25 am

    This guy doesn’t want to marry YOU. And you know what, it sounds like he’s right. The two of you should not be a couple but seem to have stayed together through some weird inertia. At least he has the sense to realize that what the two of you have is not the basis for moving forward to marriage. One of you needs to bite the bullet and initiate the breakup. You must both be terrified of aloneness, even temporary aloneness. A clean break now is best for you and your self-respect, because you know how guys who aren’t at all a match for their gf, but dread aloneness handle the situation. They cheat with other women, until they find your replacement and then you are dumped. Best to not wait for the inevitable.

  • avatar bethany June 3, 2013, 9:27 am

    So I ask you: does my boyfriend really want to be my husband or is he just a non-committal boyfriend?

    Answer: Sweet Jesus. He’s a non-committal boyfriend. Do you really have to ask?!

  • avatar Liquid Luck June 3, 2013, 9:28 am

    In addition to WWS (all of which was perfect), it’s clear this this guy just doesn’t respect you. He doesn’t think you’re capable of having good ideas, doesn’t care if his family treats you like crap, and always puts your happiness not only behind his, but behind that of his whole family. He would rather appease an abusive brother than make sure that you feel welcome and comfortable. He would rather let his mother make you feel worthless because it makes it easier for him to get what he wants.

    Marrying him will not suddenly make you more important to him, and it will not make your relationship a priority in his life. A wedding ring and some vows are not magical items, and they don’t change a terrible boyfriend into an amazing husband. In fact, it usually does the opposite. This guy will have even LESS incentive to make you happy if you marry him, because you’ll have already accepted who he is and he knows you probably won’t want to back out after you make that commitment. And if you do marry him anyway, knowing all of this, you’ll deserve any unhappiness you have. There are plenty of men out there who want to get married and have children with a wife that they can dote on. Find a man who’s already like that instead of sticking with someone who have proven time and time again that what you want out of life doesn’t matter as long as he gets what he wants.

    • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 11:24 am

      You said it perfectly! Oh bejesus I hope this LW really really listens to what everyone is telling her.

    • avatar Wendy (not Wendy) June 3, 2013, 11:58 am

      And she doesn’t respect him, either,

  • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 9:35 am

    My God, I couldn’t even get through half of this letter. Just break up with him already. You sound miserable and contemptuous. No wonder your boyfriend doesn’t want to buy a house with you or get married right now!

    Really though, he’s not ready to do things that you are, and that’s okay. You have no right to be angry about it, but you do have a right to leave and find someone more on your page. Do the poor guy a favor and let him be with someone who won’t fault him for his very reasonable life goals.

  • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 9:39 am

    This sounds like the most miserable relationship ever.

  • avatar bethany June 3, 2013, 9:39 am

    WWS.

    Seriously, what is with some of you people? Why do you think this is a relationship worth saving? You don’t mention one good thing about your boyfriend or your relationship! Why do you think that being in a pathetic excuse for a relationship is ok? If getting married and having kids is what you want for your life, you’re wasting your time by being with this guy. MOA. Take some time to be single and figure out the qualities you want in a man. Then date around until you meet someone who has the qualities you want in a husband and a father. It’s not this guy. It’s not going to be this guy. Ever.

    • Brown-eyed NoVA Girl Brown-eyed NoVA Girl June 3, 2013, 4:48 pm

      Maybe writing to Wendy, seeing her letter published, and reading the comments will help the LW see that she should MOA? Sometimes, when people are in the relationship, they don’t see how terrible it is until they try to explain it to strangers.

  • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 9:44 am

    LW, I am reading this letter way different than everyone else. So you are two years out of college and have no ring, right? It is hard because I am sure that you see other people getting engaged and you aren’t so all of these other things become issues. Inlaws are going to be frustrating and I am sure your Boyfriend’s mother can only think to talk to you about the people you know. It takes time for that relationship to be comfortable like the one with your family.

    Everyone has family issues and they are just used to them and don’t see them the way outsiders see them. Your boyfriend and you both have dreams and they might come in different packages. I think you want a wedding and large family soon but it seems like you want these things with little interaction with his family. He wants a life of travel and adventure and a smaller family later. You have to look at these things and make some tough decisions.

    How long are you willing to wait? I know I wouldn’t but you have to see is this worth it to wait or is starting all over worse for you? I think if you have to beg a guy to propose to you, it doesn’t sound good.

    I don’t think this relationship sounds bad. I think you need to stop focusing on the little things

    • Miel Miel June 3, 2013, 11:37 am

      While I agree with you that the LW might feel bad because of how their college friends are getting married and having babies, I don’t think the relationship sounds good either.

      They were together for two years in college (or a bit more), and it was probably a good college relationship. I don’t know their story, but it probably included going to the same college, seeing each other everyday, making plans about what party they would attend on the weekend, which student club they should join, and a lot of studying in the same room. When they got out of college, they were probably very happy to move (or stay) in the same location, so they stayed in the relationship, instead of breaking up like all those college couples that end up going to grad school on different coast. And that’s how the relationship has made it to four years. But it’s also probably the first time they seriously talk about marriage and kids, and they realize how they don’t actually agree on those things.

      They were probably having a great time together in college, and staying together after college was supposed to be more of the same fun.

      But marriage, kids, in-laws and bad communication when it comes to planning in general, those are not “little things”. They are very important now that they are young professional, and not college students.

      My opinion is that their two timelines are not possible together, so the LW should MOA. The relationship was good, but now they just need to move on with their life. Because for the LW, starting a family at 25 vs 35 will probably make a huge difference. And she wants the 25 option.

      • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 12:22 pm

        You are right about the timelines. But honestly, all of her problems kind of sound like life to me. I have been married for years and years. I still deal with crazy families, calendars, miscommunications. My husband and I still balance investing in the house versus going on vacation. My inlaws over step thier bounds and my mom still is a little passive agressive. My sister in law might be crazy it is just the days of the week or the year we are talking about. The thing is, you choose your battles and give in half the time.

        Here is the funny thing about time lines. You can plan to a certain point and then God messes up those plans. I think this LW needs to really listen to her boyfriend and not judge. She needs to see if his dreams match up with hers. But I think she is frustrated just sitting in life’s waiting room. She wants to either get married or travel but not talk about these things and not do anything.

  • avatar arod11 June 3, 2013, 9:46 am

    You have literally nothing to fall back on here–you hate your BF’s family, his habits, his personality, his future plans…why stay with him? I’m really taken aback that you haven’t considered breaking up with him over the family alone. I hate my mother in law as much as the next girl, and for a while, it gave me serious pause about marrying my SO. But when I really look back at our relationship, he has always sided with, supported and defended me–not once has he ever taken anyone’s side or considered anyone’s advice or needs over mine. If you don”t feel like you are in an honest, committed, equal partnership with your BF (which is sounds like you don’t), why would you want to marry him and commit YOURSELF to a life of being pushed to the back burner and aggravated (or possibly assaulted?) by his family?

  • avatar Lynn June 3, 2013, 9:47 am

    Frosts my cookies? I have never heard that saying before, whoa… I lol’d.

    • avatar honeybeenicki June 3, 2013, 9:53 am

      I had heard that, but I’d never heard “room temperature IQ” (which, by the way, soured me against the LW for saying that about her own dad). I had to urban dictionary that one.

      • Copa Copa June 3, 2013, 10:06 am

        I actually thought she must have misused “room temperature IQ” (which I Urban Dictionaried, too) because she goes on to call her dad successful, but I wasn’t sure. I thought she was trying to say that her dad’s smart/successful so that’s why she consults him, while her boyfriend consults his idiot mother, and OMGHOWDAREHERUNTHINGSBYHISFAMILY. Either way, LW is super condescending, but I honestly wasn’t sure where she was going with that reference.

        • avatar MadMen June 3, 2013, 10:18 am

          you see, we measure temperature in °C, and room temperature (about 73°F) is only 23°C. that would make a really low IQ, so i was realllyyy confused as to why she would say that about her father, then i urban dictionaried it, and i’m still confused. i mean, it still means he’s super stupid, doesnt it? can someone please explain this to me :-(

          • avatar Tax Geek June 3, 2013, 10:31 am

            Maybe she’s from the desert(?)

          • Miel Miel June 3, 2013, 11:43 am

            The scientist in me always thinks of room temperature in Kelvin, and I was all : an IQ of 293 ?!?! That’s a possible IQ score ??? woaooaoaowh her dad is a genius ! But then I thought it was probably not it, so being a canadian, I thought of celcius too, and then it was like 20… Which is utter stupid.

            No matter the units, I still feel like “has a room temperature IQ and is a successful professional” sounds very weird, and don’t feel like qualifications to give good advices.

        • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 10:35 am

          I thought she meant that her dad is of average intelligence and used that in contrast to her boyfriend’s mother. Like “I ask my dad for advice because he’s at least decently smart, unlike my boyfriend’s mom.”

        • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 2:45 pm

          I think you’re right. I had to read that sentence twice to figure out what she was talking about… and the only thing that makes sense is that she must be using it wrong.
          An IQ of 75 would make you borderline mentally disabled. A good IQ is like 100, and no way that’s room temperature in any temperature scale.
          I have to imagine she meant he had a high IQ, but also I’m not sure why running questions by either her gifted father or mentally disabled father is ok but her bf running stuff my his mom is not.

          • avatar applescruffs June 3, 2013, 3:19 pm

            When I was doing IQ assessments we would sometimes refer (among staff only) to an “april morning IQ.” Which is a bummer of an IQ of about 45. But a room temperature IQ…wouldn’t that be about 75? So, still pretty low? I am confused.

            • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:30 pm

              No applescruffs, I think the LW is confused by what “room temperature IQ” is. You’re right, 75 is low and room temp is 75.

            • avatar Monica June 6, 2013, 1:14 pm

              I spent way longer than I should have staring at the phrase with my head tilted like a confused dog.

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 9:57 am

      Yea, this whole letter is either fake or this chick is nutso. One of the more annoying/obnoxious LWs ever.

      • avatar Lynn June 3, 2013, 10:33 am

        Yeah I thought her entire letter was obnoxious. Just break up with him.

    • avatar jottino June 3, 2013, 11:23 am

      Literally the only reason I wanted to comment on this letter was because of “frosts my cookies” lol. It sounds like a good thing. Who doesn’t like frosted cookies?

      • Fabelle Fabelle June 3, 2013, 11:28 am

        Right? It’s obvious she means it as a “chaps my hide” thing, but frosted cookies are awesome! (I do like it better, as a phrase, than “chaps my hide” though.)

  • avatar TECH June 3, 2013, 9:47 am

    This letter was excruciating to read. You say you met your boyfriend 6 years ago when you were starting college. Based on that, I would estimate you are about 24 years old. I don’t blame your boyfriend for not being able to seriously think about kids or a house at that age. I don’t even feel like addressing the rest of the paragraphs because it is so painfully obvious that you are angry and frustrated with your boyfriend’s family and most importantly, with HIM. I appreciate when people write to Wendy about serious dilemmas. This letter wasn’t even presenting a serious dilemma. It’s just a wall of text about why your boyfriend and his family are not a good fit for you.

    I know a lot of people who stayed together through college and got engaged in their early 20′s and I just thought to myself — why?! Your early 20′s can be a confusing time and you endure a lot of change. Many people hold onto college relationships because they are floundering a little bit. They may feel lost and unsure of the future and they hold onto that relationship because hey, at least they might be on track to getting married! *sarcasm*

    I’m almost positive the LW doesn’t want to hear this. But she should be alone for a while. Her letter was a bitchfest and makes me think she’s no picnic herself.

  • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 9:53 am

    BUT, BUT, BUT I WANT TO GET MARRIED!

    Oh my god, Wendy, I don’t know how you do it some days.

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 9:59 am

      He shouldn’t run ideas by his parents for advice (at 24!), because they aren’t as well off as my family and aren’t as smart as my daddy. LW, I really can’t imagine why your boyfriend has anything to do with you.

      ps You and he can’t possibly be well off like you say if your boyfriend is stressed about student loans.

      • avatar Guy Friday June 3, 2013, 12:27 pm

        Yeah. What the hell is this LW’s problem?! Seriously. Maybe the phrasing the guy used is a little indelicate, but she sounds like a class-A spoiled princess. And, I mean, her logic doesn’t even make sense! She applauds her parents for hunkering down and not spending more than they could afford, saving for later years, etc. but then bashes her boyfriend for saying the exact same thing? She’s mad because he wants to wait to have children until he’s financially stable? He wants to wait to buy a house because of the negative impact the student loan debt will have on his credit score? Hey, LW: pick up a newspaper sometime and look at the thousands of stories being written about how young 20-somethings are now struggling to get mortgages because of student loan debt. It’s a real thing. Oh, and don’t even get me started on the “let’s have 4 kids and damn the consequences” thing.

        Honestly, you should MOA, but not because the guy’s a douche. You should MOA so this guy — who is obviously cautious and responsible — can find someone who appreciates his desire not to randomly do shit before he knows he can do it right financially. And, seriously, grow the hell up and take a good luck at the real world, because you’re going to be in for quite the shock otherwise.

        • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 12:54 pm

          Now I wish I read the comments before I commented this morning. I didn’t see the other side of this letter… just the bitchfest…..I still think she should MOA from this relationship and I do think the BF is a lil spineless. …but at the same time she does sound like an overbearing spoiled brat. She needs a reality check. LW get an apartment, live in the real world for a year then tell us about how oh-so-perfect your finances are and such. Because I bet you will have a hard time finding a job you like that pays you enough the pay your rent, bills and still have $$ left over to throw into savings. Then take that knowledge and think about how much more expensive it will b with a mortgage and four kids in tow. Then maybe you will realize that it is not all peaches and cream. Oh and also think abt the cost of a wedding thrown into the works….about any where from $10,000 (really really cheap if you get a good deal on everything) to about $50,000 more toward the high end of things. Oh ya and what about the $20,000 to $60,000 for the downpayment on your home…plus yearly taxes etc etc etc. Oh boy LW you just have not thought your fairy tale through.

          • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 3:13 pm

            Guy Friday is definitely right about this, but I think you are assuming a lot here Doodles, she’s not 16 and living at home. She says they have good jobs, and are financially stable, and they are 24 for so it’s not like they have never been in the real world.

        • Lindsay Lindsay June 3, 2013, 1:16 pm

          I totally agree. Some people are calling him immature, and maybe he is, but saying you aren’t ready to purchase a house or agree to four children when you’ve been out of college for two years is not unreasonable.

        • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 1:42 pm

          I think she is bashing her boyfriend for not doing anything. Like how long does she wait by his side before saying this is never going to happen?

          • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:44 pm

            She does have a brain of her own though. She asked him, he answered honestly. She doesn’t like the answer, so she should MOA, not wait for a new answer.

            • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 1:55 pm

              see, I am betting that he is being wishy washy. Saying, I want to marry you but first I want to travel then doesn’t travel. so they are spending another weekend with the boyfriends family having the same boring conversations and her 20s are slowly slipping away. I agree, I think she should move on and create the life she wants but I don’t think her expecations are unjust.

              • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 3:17 pm

                I don’t know, she seems to be bit of a drama queen here, and makes every issue into a huge thing. I’m not saying there aren’t things the boyfriend needs to majorly work on like his family issues, but it really seems she just doesn’t like who he is, and she needs to decide if she wants to move on or not.

                Oh and this is the best line in the whole letter “And ripped a locked car door open.” sounds legit.

                • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 3:45 pm

                  See, I know what you are saying. But this LW feels powerless to plan the rest of her life because he is holding the cards. He is deciding if they should get engaged, buy a house, travel. She keeps trying to move him rather than take charge and do these things on her own. I think we both agree. You think he is sounding reasonable and I am saying that she is starting to come apart at the seams because she is putting her life on hold waiting for him. We both can be right and agree that they should MOA

    • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 12:27 pm

      I think you and I read this differently. I think they are stuck in a mid twenties funk. I think they are together and not moving in any direction. He talks about traveling but they don’t do it and aren’t getting married or buying a house or anything. I think they are spending alot of family time but aren’t raising kids. So she is restless. I can see after 4 years in a relationship that I am sure has gotten comfortable and a little boring, but no direction. Don’t you think?

      • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 12:37 pm

        I wouldn’t call it a mid twenties funk. I’d just call it mid twenties.

        This is a perfect example of why the amount of time in a relationship doesn’t necessarily equate a good timeline for marriage.

        They are a college couple, just out of school, should be finding careers, etc. I know some people marry right out of college and its great, but a LOT don’t. 24 is YOUNG. Sounds like this guy is clued into that and thank god! I mean, apply your comment to a couple who has been together 4 years, since freshman year of high school! You know what I mean? If that since-freshman year couple stayed together through college, that’s 8 years together before marriage is potentially on the radar. Obviously wouldn’t be wise to marry just because they were together 8 years while still in school, not experiencing life outside of that bubble.

        • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 1:21 pm

          Right, but 24 isn’t that young. honestly, the average age of marriage is 25 so she isn’t too young to say “where is this going?”

          • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:40 pm

            And she did ask that, and she got an answer. He’s no where near as ready. I don’t think she is either.

          • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 2:22 pm

            The average age for women to marry is 27, for men it’s 29. In the USA that is.

      • katie katie June 3, 2013, 12:39 pm

        i dont understand why relationships constantly have to have a “direction”- to be on the road to monogamy, to marriage, to kids, to whatever- why cant people just be happy together?

        • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 12:43 pm

          Exactly. If you can’t handle when life feels like it is headed in “no direction” then you will be severely disappointed in life. A lot of it is just the same shit every day. If you are always wanting what’s next, you’ll never enjoy it.

          • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 12:51 pm

            Ugh, shut up LBH. This is something I really struggle with. Not really about my relationship, but just about life in general. Now that the wedding is over, I can’t stop making lists about everything. Obsessing over a budget for a new car when I can really only crunch those numbers so many times, thinking about every possible career path I could take in the future and making new budgets for what those salaries would be like, planning stuff in my current job, planning what shows to watch next on Netflix, when should we buy another seasonal doormat or water bottle or something, what can I bring to my best friend’s housewarming party NEXT YEAR. I really need constant projects.

            • katie katie June 3, 2013, 12:55 pm

              see, i get that though- so start up a hobby. learn how to coupon. go volunteer with animals. read books. fill up your life with interesting thing so that when it does get monotonous and boring (which it will!), its ok. and then the flip side of that is, when your life is busy, it will be super busy, and for whatever reason i seem to thrive on that… personally, ive been much happier in the past 6 months or so, after i started to fill my time up.

              • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 1:01 pm

                Yeah, for sure. I’m glad you don’t think I’m crazy. After P is over his hernia I’ll be able to do things that are actually interesting. Right now my time is just filled with my boring job and taking care of him. I am soooo bored, which drives me to make lists and plan everything I want to do in the future.

                • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:08 pm

                  If it makes you feel better, I’m in the process of looking for a new house, went to 3 open houses yesterday, and all night I was figuring out which walls I would knock down, which appliances I want to replace, how we will set up Peter’s office and lil_be_honest’s art room, paint colors, rip some shrubbery out, how I’ll become besties with the neighbors (that may not even exist), etc. For 3 different houses. None of which I’m even sure I would buy. So yea, another psycho planner over here.

                  • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 1:12 pm

                    Hahaha, We are so on the same wavelength here. I did that same thing last week except for houses for my friend that she’s just looking at online.

                    So yay, tell us about this house hunting! What are you looking for? Suburbia, modern and trendy, cottage-style houses?

                    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:19 pm

                      I’m bad at knowing the different names for house types, but I prefer a ranch (one level only), but those are few and far between, so looks like it’ll be a high ranch (?), the one where you walk in and there’s stairs up and stairs down, but you could live on one floor if you needed to. Suburbia, still. I’d love a small, cute cottage’y house, but I have way too much crap and need space. Plus, I really want at least 4 bedrooms (us, lil, office, guest) bonus would be 5, for a craft room, but I’d be fine with a guest/craft room. So no cute cottage for me. The place I’m in now has a great setup for the master bedroom, and I haven’t seen anything yet that compares, hence the wall knocking down thing. Its a lot of fun looking and planning, but its also stressful not knowing where I’ll end up. Trying to just chill out about it. (hope that wasn’t too long!)

                    • katie katie June 3, 2013, 1:26 pm

                      i HATE HATE HATE looking at houses. jake has this idea in his head that he wants to buy a house, and the constant “look at this house its awesome and we can knock down this wall and do this and that” just stresses me out to no end.

                    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:35 pm

                      I’m starting to really enjoy it, which is surprising. But, we have very different ideas of what we want. I want one on the smaller side, that we can fix up a little. He wants The Most Expensive House In The World that needs no fixing up at all.

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 1:50 pm

                      Gah, I love house hunting. I watch those shows all the time and look online- even though we can’t buy for at least 5 to 10 years since there is a very good chance he’ll be getting 1 year appointments at schools for a while. I love little cottage/bungalow type houses. Or maybe a ranch. My childhood home was 4 floors (and we used all of them) and those stairs make my head spin.

                    • avatar bethany June 3, 2013, 2:38 pm

                      I love looking at houses. I open house as much as I can. It’s so fun to see what else is out there! That’s how I found our house now. We weren’t looking to buy for another year or 2, but I went to the open house just to look, and a few months later we were making an offer!!

                    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 2:46 pm

                      bethany, my problem is I’m afraid any house I like will be bought before I get around to deciding.

                    • avatar bethany June 3, 2013, 2:57 pm

                      Our house was on the market for a LONG time (9+ months), because it was very dated on the inside (wood paneling everywhere, and a bright red bar in the basement), so we didn’t have to worry about that. No one else was crazy enough to want it. It’s amazing what paint and new curtains does!

                • avatar BreezyAM June 3, 2013, 2:36 pm

                  This is how I started making furniture and redoing my house.

            • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:00 pm

              You know, my comment was general. I know people like you, and I myself am a planner, so I do try to actively remind myself to enjoy the moment, while also thinking about the future/planning. Its like when you get home from a vacation, you want to start planning the next one. That’s fine, so long as you are also thinking about how nice your last one was. I think the whole needing a project thing is different than needing direction in your life. You are presumably very happy right now, enjoying your first months as a wife and making a nice home for you guys, but of course you are ALSO thinking about all the other stuff that’s coming in the future. I guess its a balance thing. Love your life right now and ALSO think about what’s coming up project-wise. Did that make any sense?

              • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 1:07 pm

                Ohhh, that makes sense. So I’m not bad off then. I’m not miserable in my current state. I just always want to move forward and do something new and fun. The vacation example resonates right now because we’re still talking about how fun the honeymoon was, but last night we sort of planned all the vacations we plan on taking before we have kids, which ones we’ll take without the kids later on, how old our kids will be when we take them to Disneyworld, etc. It’s just fun to have something to work toward.

              • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 1:37 pm

                Yea, I am a total planner. I have a white board over my desk that I put 20 new years “goal” and check them off. They are everything from paint hallway to go on a vacation over 200 miles away to see the opera. I also put savings goals and health goals. I check them off all year but it helps me remember what I want to accomplish. That way I don’t keep saying “I always wanted to do that or I keep meaning to do that” I have this master list for the year.

            • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 2:24 pm

              I’m the same way TA, always focusing on what is next and how to plan for what is next. I am a project person.

            • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 2:53 pm

              DUDE I totally feel you. The other day I took a day off from work and I was SO BORED, which is a new experience compared to recently. First was wedding planning where every day off I called like 5 places and drove all around town doing stuff and there was never enough time. And then after that it was post-wedding stuff- organizing the house, writing thank you notes….
              And now? Feels like I have nothing else to do. I cleaned the house and then was still bored. So I went to Hobby Lobby this weekend and bought a bunch of scrapbooking stuff. I really want to make a scrapbook from our honeymoon (all our saved tickets and stuff are sitting in a shoebox in the closet) before I forget everything. I’m gonna do it! New project!

              • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:10 pm

                Oh, I scrapbook! It’s a great way to fill up idol time and idol hands.

                And can I just say post wedding house cleaning BLOWS. Our place is such a fantastic mess. We spent hours this weekend working on it and still…hot mess.

                • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:11 pm

                  Prepare to spend hours more!
                  I still have wedding crap in piles. But I have given up on them because they’re at least orderly piles. Just don’t go in the closet.

                • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 3:20 pm

                  YES. Post-wedding cleaning sucks, especially when you’re the only one capable of doing it because your herniated husband can’t do anything but lie on the couch in pain. This weekend I found time to vacuum for the first time in an embarrassingly long time, and I feel like a new woman. I want to have our friends over for dinner to show off our new gifts, but no such luck right now.

                  Also scrapbooking sounds interesting. Is that expensive?

                  • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 3:22 pm

                    Note to self – get hernia day after wedding.

                    • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 3:35 pm

                      Hahaha, not if you want to have lots of honeymoon “fun.” He was saying yesterday how he wishes we could redo the honeymoon because he thought it was ruined by all the pain he was in. I feel so bad for him, but thankfully he’s having surgery tomorrow.

                  • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:23 pm

                    There is a not-insignificant start up cost involved if you want to get fancy (you could go crazy with all the different ways to cut paper and stuff- fancy scissors and decorative hole punches and the circle cutter) but at Hobby Lobby I found a starter kit type thing with paper and stickers and a book for $25. That and a glue stick plus regular kitchen shears is probably enough to get your feet wet before investing in the good stuff.

                    • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:24 pm

                      Also, you need to print your pictures, which everyone used to do all the time but nobody does anymore. So factor that cost in.

                  • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:26 pm

                    It doesn’t have to be expensive, but you can make it. I think it cost me about like $25 to start up at Michael’s (an album, filler pages, glue, pretty card stock for photo backing, letters) and then I just save tickets etc from things we do, print out some pictures at Target for like 25 cents each and then occasionally buy the pretty filler stickers. That’s the most expensive part- the little filler stickers are about $3 a pack (usually themed and would only go on one or two pages). But with Michael’s coupons and sales…it doesn’t end up costing that much. I have scrapbooks going back to our first date.

                    GatorGuy just left for a month away. So I’m home alone to deal with the remainder of the wedding mess and the Thank You cards. And he’s off playing in the big city. Butthead.

                    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 3:33 pm

                      for a month? wow that sucks.

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:37 pm

                      Yup, he’ll be away for the next 27 days. Hello married life…living alone. Haha. He got a grant for travel research and we couldn’t turn it down. So he went and I stayed.

                    • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 3:42 pm

                      Yikes, that sounds rough! I guess the very small positive side is that you know all of your thank you cards are going to be really good? (Sorry, just trying to be positive, but really that just sucks)

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:55 pm

                      I’m not really looking forward to it, but it’s only 27 days. We’ve survived twice that with out seeing each other before :) Plus I’m excited to have full control of the remote and food planning.

                    • Fabelle Fabelle June 3, 2013, 4:00 pm

                      A month, whoa. I’m pretty sure I told my boyfriend I’d dump him if he was away that long during a hypothetical “what if?” convo we had. (I probably wouldn’t. Probably.)

                  • katie katie June 3, 2013, 4:11 pm

                    i also scrapbook! its super fun. i am currently having panic attacks because they dont make my albums anymore, though, so theres that. i have no idea what im going to do. i refuse to buy the expensive albums that use the plastic page protectors.

                    basically, its expensive as you make it. all you need is pictures, a place to put them, and pretty stuff to play with. pictures can be as little as 5 cents each (jesus GG i would NEVER pay 25 cents per picture! lol), and the albums i used to buy were very inexpensive, and then i get some pretty paper (not every page has the pretty paper then, its easier for me and less expensive), and then the stickers. over the years i have grown my collection of stuff that now i have a cricut, a whole library of paper and stickers, a few of the punches, ribbon, twine, ect.

                    start small would be my advice. start small and simple and just go from there! you will learn as you go.

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 4:27 pm

                      Haha, I just threw out a number, I have no idea what I pay for pictures. I usually print out like 6 months worth at once. I want a cricut so bad! I think I’m going to ask for one for Christmas.

                    • katie katie June 3, 2013, 4:32 pm

                      i just printed my last year with a memorial day deal for 7 cents each, and i was mad about that, lol.

                      yea, the cricut is pretty sweet, but i hate the money-grab that it is… because after you buy the cricut you have to buy the sticky sheets, and then you have to buy the cartridges, and you have to buy paper for it to cut… so eh. i dont use it as much as i would like.

                    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 4:52 pm

                      Another option for wannabe scrapbookers is just making a photobook online. Try winkflash or snapfish. Just upload your pictures, click a couple buttons and they mail you a book. I love them.

        • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 1:26 pm

          Honestly, If you want to have kids, there is absolutely a timeline. half of your eggs are gone by 28. I am in my thirties trying to have a baby and WISH I had started earlier. I thought I had plenty of time and now with a miscarriage and fertility specialists. People act like they can have kids well into thier 40s when the reality is that people can only do that with a team of doctors and 10s of thousands of dollars.

          • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:35 pm

            Still though, early 20s is pretty early, no?

            • katie katie June 3, 2013, 1:40 pm

              its not even that its early- you have to have two people to make a baby. unless this lady is going to go to a sperm donor to get her 4 kids (and if she wanted to- cool- thats totally an option if you can afford it/them, ect), the guy she is currently with is saying to her, literally saying the words “no not right now i am not ready i have other goals and dreams and ideas about my life”.

              it is *obviously* not the time for this lady to have kids, it doesnt matter how old her eggs are.

              • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 1:43 pm

                Right, great point. Just because 25 is an ok time for some to marry and procreate, doesn’t mean every 25 y/o in any kind of relationship should be marrying.

              • avatar csp June 3, 2013, 1:53 pm

                Right, I think people are giving her a hard time about the details in her letter. But honestly, she has dreams and is forced to sit and wait for her boyfriend to commit. I think she is not being over dramatic or doing things too quickly. If she dreams of a big family, she needs to start moving on that. you don’t know what your fertility is until you start trying to have a baby.

  • Copa Copa June 3, 2013, 9:54 am

    So, from the timeline I understood, you guys are 24…? While I don’t think he wants to be your husband anymore than you want to be his wife, I don’t think he’s TRYING to be your non-committal boyfriend. Many 24 year olds don’t even know what they want for breakfast, let alone how they want to spend the rest of their lives. From what I gleaned from your nine paragraphs of complaints, I don’t think he’s ready to commit to you OR anyone else right now; it truly just sounds, to me, like he’s young and trying to figure things out. Notwithstanding your obvious resentment of him, timing is pretty key in deciding if/when it’s time to take the next step. If you think you know what you want, fine — go find that in someone else. Preferably someone you actually, y’know, like.

    • Copa Copa June 3, 2013, 9:59 am

      “Well, they keep getting preggo, so it can’t be that awful, right? But he is sure it is. Yes, people tell goofy, funny, idiotic stories about the mess babies and kids make, but it’s funny!!! Hello?”

      Oh, and this made me laugh aloud. I don’t have kids, but if you truly think parenthood (to FOUR kids, no less) is nothing but fun and games… yikes!

      • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 1:02 pm

        Oh yes…this paragraph. ..she needs to find someone with a couple of kids and babysit for days on end then she will realize it is not cute or funny. That in reality it may be rewarding but can be extremely aggravating and stressful and tiring and omg so much more…..oh boy oh boy oh boy…..

        “Hello….reality…yes this is Doodles…we have a LW here who is in much need of your assistance. ..Ok so you will get to her shortly…OK GREAT..wonderful. Ok Dearwendy will b in touch again soon. Thanks bye.”

    • avatar Christy June 3, 2013, 10:10 am

      As a 24-year-old, you’ve pretty perfectly described my life. Happy where I am, interested in committing to someone (maybe even my current gf) in the future, but content with the status quo.

    • avatar Holly June 3, 2013, 11:52 am

      Hey now, this 24 year old knows what she wants for breakfast, and that’s Cap’n Crunch.

      I have no idea what I want for lunch, however.

      • findingtheearth findingtheearth June 3, 2013, 1:40 pm

        Do they still make Cap’n crunch? I don’t eat cereal a lot and don’t have television, so I never know what is cool for cereal.

        • avatar Holly June 3, 2013, 5:30 pm

          They do! I used to get boxes off of Amazon (in bulk) because I would get massive cravings and wouldn’t be over it until 5 18oz boxes later – or about five months of nothing but that every single morning.

  • avatar MadMen June 3, 2013, 9:56 am

    “Which really frosts my cookies.”

    Why havent I heard this term before??? It completes my life.

  • avatar ktfran June 3, 2013, 10:01 am

    SAY WHAT? As others have pointed out, this letter was super painful to read. Break the eff up already, LW.

    I want to add, I don’t think either of you are bad people, or assholes. I think you’re just in the wrong relationship. Not to mention, the timing of your life goals do not match up with your boyfriend’s. AT ALL. And that’s OK. LW., I know it must be scary because you thought you were on the path to have this awesome career, a husband, a house and at least two kids by the time you were thirty with more on the way. But you know what, you can have those things. It just isn’t right now with the person you’re with. You need to find someone with the same goals. A compatible person. Break up with your boyfriend, like yesterday.

    Why am I so nice today? I could easily have been super sarcastic.

    Also, I personally don’t understand not liking in-laws. Every boyfriend I had and whose parents I met we got along famously. I couldn’t imagine ever choosing a partner with crappy parents. I just couldn’t. But I guess I also had to see my mom deal with her in-laws and it wasn’t always pretty.

    • avatar kerrycontrary June 3, 2013, 10:04 am

      “I couldn’t imagine ever choosing a partner with crappy parents.”–THIS. If more people took their potential in-laws into consideration when choosing a partner I’m sure there would be a lot more happy relationships out there. I know it must be hard when you love someone and you meet their family and you are like “oh, crap, they’re insane”. But who you marry is a package deal including family members, crazy pets, children, etc…

      • avatar ktfran June 3, 2013, 10:11 am

        Right? But I’m also very family-oriented. And I think you are too. So, that kind of stuff is super important to me. Also, I don’t want to spend my life dealing with crazy family drama. At all. Ick.

      • Copa Copa June 3, 2013, 10:43 am

        Eh. I know I’ll sound like a crappy person when I say this, but my parents (who are good people individually) are in a terrible marriage — I’d consider them shitty family from an SO’s perspective. It’s “a secret” that they don’t get along even a little bit. They make people EXTREMELY uncomfortable sometimes because the tension between them is obvious even to people who don’t know their secrets. They’re the only family I have locally. I love family-oriented gatherings (my dad’s family lives on the west coast and I LOVE being there for holidays when it’s feasible), but wasn’t blessed with a cohesive family unit near where I live. I’d hate to think a potential partner would hold this against me because I think I turned out fine notwithstanding.

      • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 11:07 am

        I don’t think choosing somebody with crappy parents is bad as long as that person isn’t going to side with them all of the time, and agree with everything they say. My friend has a miserable mother, and she tries to make his wife feel like crap, but he has the balls to shut her down, and because of that his wife deals with the occasional off comment, and his mother has learned to keep her mouth shut for the most part or her baby boy is going to be mad at her, and she wouldn’t want that!

        • katie katie June 3, 2013, 11:23 am

          yea, this is the key to it- you can have a crappy in-law family, but as long as your partner is not crappy and not willing to put up with it, your fine. i mean, i guess it still sucks, if you had dreams of sunday dinners and whatever, but- what can you do?

        • avatar Liquid Luck June 3, 2013, 11:50 am

          This is what I was going to say! Having crappy in-laws sucks, but it wouldn’t be a deal-breaker for me unless the partner with shitty parents was ok with them being shitty. If you prioritize your relationship with your partner over the one with your parents (like in the situation you mentioned), then I don’t think it’s something to be held against you. It’s the people like the guys in this letter who let their family treat their partners like crap because they “don’t want to get in the middle/take sides” that are the real issue, not the family.

          • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 1:47 pm

            Yup, I agree with y’all. My MIL went through a crappy period early in our dating. She was a real bitch. But GatorGuy stood up for me to her and defended our relationship etc. It pissed her off even more that he was taking my side, but she finally got the hint that I wasn’t leaving and we have a great relationship now :)

    • Lyra Lyra June 3, 2013, 10:16 am

      To be devil’s advocate, one of my best friends from college is married to an amazing guy, but his family is HORRIBLE. Like, they once took out a credit card in his name to pay their mortgage payments and they just left it without paying it off and without telling him. He found out when he tried to apply for a credit card around age 20. The two of them are very good together, he is really really good to my friend, and he is just an all-around great guy who treats everyone with respect. His family is just total crap.

      • avatar ktfran June 3, 2013, 10:29 am

        I totally get what you’re saying and for some it works. And some people turn out awesome despite their family. Just for me, I don’t think it would work. I like family. I like Sunday dinners and holidays. Those things are things I need in my life. So, it’s kind of high on my list of priorities I want in a partner.

        I guess I also just think that if you’re with someone who is close with his or her family, but you hate them, then what’s the point? You have to deal with these people forever. I think if the boyfriend wasn’t so entrenched with this family, I might view this LW’s situation differently and I probably wouldn’t have said what I said.

        • Lyra Lyra June 3, 2013, 10:38 am

          Most definitely. I understand that. This friend of mine is very close to her family and her husband has become close to her family also. They don’t see his family all that often and when they do it usually turns into a shit show.

      • Lindsay Lindsay June 3, 2013, 1:11 pm

        I understand that. As long as my SO knew his family was shitty and didn’t let them run his life, then I’d be OK with that. You can’t control what your family is like. But yeah, if he thought they were great and wanted to spend all this time with them, then it would be too much.

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 10:19 am

      So true about in-laws. I LOVE my SO’s family. I can’t imagine wanting to marry someone with a shitty family, especially if my husband were close with them and wanted us to spend a lot of time with them.

  • Lyra Lyra June 3, 2013, 10:10 am

    Yikes. Just, wow. LW, you wrote almost 9 paragraphs and you didn’t have one good thing to say about your boyfriend. That in itself should tell you something. This is far from a healthy relationship. From what you wrote on here you don’t agree on anything in this relationship — from marriage to kids to vacations.

    I know all these comments will be hard to read. I caution you against this: don’t waste more time hoping that he will change. People won’t change unless THEY want to change. I learned that lesson the hard way. Think of it this way: say you get married and have three kids, but he is still going to his mom with everything instead of talking to you. How would you feel? That’s how things will be if you stay with this guy. Please do what’s best for you and move on from him.

  • avatar rachel June 3, 2013, 10:13 am

    Wait, before I finish reading, what in the world is a “room temperature IQ”? Is that a thing? Because you know room temperature is like 72, and an IQ of 72 would be, well, pretty functionally impaired? So maybe you shouldn’t take advice from a man you think is dumb?

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 10:20 am

      I don’t think she knows what that means, because she describes him in every other way as smart and successful.

      • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 11:13 am

        It is just too hard to say, she sounds like she could be completely using the term wrong or It sounds like he might be a hard working professional laborer, and despite that is still successful (according to her).

      • avatar rachel June 3, 2013, 11:16 am

        Yeah, lbh, I was wondering if that might be the case.

    • Miel Miel June 3, 2013, 12:12 pm

      Maybe the dad is really stupid, so he agrees with everything the LW says instead of interfering with her plans and shutting down her ideas, like the mother-in-law does ?

      If that’s the case though, it’s really rude. Who would say that about her dad ?

    • avatar 6napkinburger June 3, 2013, 12:52 pm

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=room%20temperature%20iq

      Exactly. So confused. Maybe it’s that you don’t need to have brains that break the bank to work hard and be successful? But what a way to backhandedly insult your dad…

  • rosie posie rosie posie June 3, 2013, 10:15 am

    Wow, LW walk away. Just walk away. Yes, you have put a number of years into this relationship but you should never have to “convince” someone they love you enough to marry you or want to have children with you. The right guy for you will already be on the same page as you and will be as excited as you are to start the next chapter. You have four years of education of what you want from someone and what you need from someone (these are not inclusive of each other). Use this information to find someone who is suited for you and you for him. You have about a decade before your biological clock starts ticking loudly enough to hear. Use this time to find someone who you will be happy waking up to in the present and when the kids have long flown the coop. Some relationships are worth fighting for but this doesn’t seem to be one of them.

  • avatar rachel June 3, 2013, 10:16 am

    Okay, finished reading. LW, why do you want to marry this guy? You sound miserable! You just spent multiple paragraphs bitching about, well, everything that is important in a relationship! That’s not normal, trust me. If you need our permission to MOA, even though this is a long relationship that you thought was leading to marriage, you have it. Seriously. MOA.

  • Lindsay Lindsay June 3, 2013, 10:29 am

    Like everyone else said, why would you want to marry someone who wants none of the same things you do? Break up and find someone who does.

    To be clear, though, your boyfriend doesn’t sound as awful as you’re trying to make him out to be. He actually sounds like he’s pretty good at communicating what he wants and why. You seem to think that he just lives to thwart your plans, but a lot of his reasons seem very logical, like not wanting to buy a house until you’ve paid off some student loans.

    Anyway, I think that in addition to MOA, you also need to learn how to compromise and to listen to someone else’s ideas without treating them like they’re stupid, because even if you find someone who has similar goals, no one is going to want every single thing you want exactly when you want it.

  • avatar j2 June 3, 2013, 10:29 am

    WWS!

    I just don’t get it, and only have questions. I mean, what the hell happened during those years at college? Was this loser-sounding guy the only above-room-temperature male in the whole place? Did all this turn up only after graduation? Do I really even want to know any of the answers?

  • veritek33 veritek33 June 3, 2013, 10:32 am

    Oh god. I just can’t even. I couldn’t finish the letter. Just no. Leave the relationship. It’s not working.

  • avatar Essie June 3, 2013, 10:36 am

    OMG, why do women think this way? “I want a marriage and house and I just need to find some guy who’s willing to give them to me?”

    No, no, no. Just no. You have it completely backwards, LW. A marriage isn’t something you check off your list of life goals, like getting a college degree or buying your first car. It’s a natural outgrowth of a good relationship. No, a great relationship.

    This is how it works. You find yourself in a relationship with someone that you truly love, and truly like, and truly respect. You think, “Hey, this is really good. We make each other so happy. I want to spend the rest of my life with this guy.”

    That’s when you start talking about marriage. Not because it’s been X number of years since you started dating. Not because a whole bunch of your friends have rings and you’re feeling left out.

    MOA. He certainly doesn’t want to marry you, and I can see why, because your utter contempt for him and his family just drips off your letter. Move on, and find someone who meets your requirements. Because the alternative is to keep pressuring him to marry someone who doesn’t even respect him. He may give in eventually, and you’ll get the ring you want so much. But your marriage is going to be lousy, and short-lived.

    • avatar ktfran June 3, 2013, 10:46 am

      Can you make a post card and mail it to every female in America? Scratch that, the world? Saying this . . .

      “A marriage isn’t something you check off your list of life goals, like getting a college degree or buying your first car. It’s a natural outgrowth of a good relationship. No, a great relationship.

      This is how it works. You find yourself in a relationship with someone that you truly love, and truly like, and truly respect. You think, “Hey, this is really good. We make each other so happy. I want to spend the rest of my life with this guy.”

      That’s when you start talking about marriage. Not because it’s been X number of years since you started dating. Not because a whole bunch of your friends have rings and you’re feeling left out.”

    • Lindsay Lindsay June 3, 2013, 11:49 am

      Exactly! I have a friend who got divorced at 25, three years into her marriage, exactly for this reason. She really wanted to have kids and a family, so she married the first guy she met who wanted those things.

      You can decide a lot of things about your life — where you’ll live, where you’ll work, if you’ll change careers or go back to school, but one of the big things you can’t decide is when and if you’ll meet someone to marry. People who try to bend that part of life to their will very often end up very unhappy.

    • avatar ebstarr June 3, 2013, 1:06 pm

      Why is it necessary to bring in all the old sexist stereotypes about women here? This LW seems easy enough to criticize all on her own without bringing other women into it. And seriously, if you haven’t seen plenty of men desperate for marriage with the nearest available breathing lady, you must know very different men than I do.

  • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 10:41 am

    “I talk to my Dad about some things, but my father has a room temperature IQ.”<<<< Dude that makes you sound like a complete biznatch.

    • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 10:43 am

      Maybe she meant ‘because my dad doesn’t have a room temperature IQ’???? either way she sounds mean.

    • landygirl landygirl June 3, 2013, 10:49 am

      Something tells me that the apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

      • bittergaymark Bittergaymark June 3, 2013, 7:18 pm

        YES!! This LW seems more than a bit dim. This letter and its profound lack of logic gave me one hell of a headache…

  • avatar AliceInDairyland June 3, 2013, 10:51 am

    I want to write in to DW with a whole bunch of completely random euphemisms and sayings and weird metaphors and cliches to the point where no one knows what is going on.

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 10:57 am

      I saw a baby goat this weekend and thought of you!

      • avatar AliceInDairyland June 3, 2013, 11:20 am

        Yay!!

        • katie katie June 3, 2013, 11:47 am

          we have a new kitten at the shelter who meows and sounds exactly like a baby goat, and we all nicknamed her goat, and then i showed them your video of your goats.

          ps. i want to meet your goats.

  • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 10:59 am

    Holy crap girl! You are worried about commitment? There are a million more things you should worry about. First off no this guy does NOT want kids…he is only trying to appease you. He has no spine, his parents dictate his life (& tthey will continue once you get married and they will also try that crap with you). You hate his family. This guy puts down your hopes and dreams and your worried about a commitment? Wow! Lets try this…YOU NEED TO GET THE HELL OUTTA DODGE!!!! MOA GIRL…..M-O-A!!! This clearly is not the guy for you. You want someone who will be there, support you in your goals and dreams, someone to help you make decisions, and someone who’s values are parallel to yours. What you do not want is someone who is spineless, whiny, and needs Mommy and Daddy to wipe his ass. If you stay and end up married you will be in hell. Your marriage and problems will be known to his family, & you will live being dictated by his mother. You need to sit down and really figure out why you are even in this relationship. Make a oist of pros and cons…see which one is longer (I bet the cons will be). Or better yet REREAD YOUR LETTER! But like I said you need to MOA and do it fast. Find someone who lifts you up, not weighs you down. I betcha you will be more happy without this guy and his apron strings to mommy.

  • avatar Older and (hopefully) wiser June 3, 2013, 11:02 am

    Dear Wendy,
    I find my boyfriend very annoying sometimes. He constantly leaves the toilet seat up and the cap off the toothpaste, I’m always finding body parts under the bed (which I have to clean up) and I hate his parents. What do you think I should do? Signed, sick of his shit
    I”m sorry. Just feeling punchy today.

    • avatar rachel June 3, 2013, 11:17 am

      Dude, cap off the toothpaste? MOA

      • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 11:45 am

        I’ve been threatening to “accidentally” drop his things in the toilet when he doesn’t flush in the middle of the night. Today was almost that day. Hopefully tomorrow I will have the balls to do it. :) I should prob just MOA.

        • katie katie June 3, 2013, 11:47 am

          lol, the things people get mad about…

          • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 11:51 am

            Playing to role of a follow up LW, I’m going to add to my comment with details that will make you be on my side, katie…
            Its gross! Imagine waking up, barely rubbing the gunk out of your eyes and finding a bowl full of urine staring you in the face! A bowl full of urine, katie! Ew.

            • avatar 6napkinburger June 3, 2013, 12:41 pm

              Have you guys talked about it? In some houses growing up, people arent supposed to flush in the middle of the night because it is really loud and will wake everyone up or because the toilet will run, etc. It actually is a thing — some houses it is so rude not to and some houses you’re a jerk if you do.

              Now, if you guys have talked and there’s no reason he doesn’t, then feel free to dip away ;-p.

            • avatar 6napkinburger June 3, 2013, 12:42 pm

              Oh, were you joking? I’m dumb…

              • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 12:45 pm

                haha, *mostly* joking. He has actually said that though, that he thinks it’ll wake us up. I say I don’t care. He says he’ll flush when I quit smoking. I say I’m dropping cell phones in it. Its a back and forth jokey thing.

                • avatar 6napkinburger June 3, 2013, 12:53 pm

                  :-)

            • avatar ele4phant June 3, 2013, 1:46 pm

              Meh if its just my urine or my bf’s urine, not a big deal. I’ve seen way grosser things from him, and there’s no sense in wasting water.

    • landygirl landygirl June 3, 2013, 11:43 am

      My husband leaves the toothpaste cap off as well. It’s annoying.

    • avatar kerrycontrary June 3, 2013, 1:45 pm

      My boyfriend has JUST started leaving the toilet seat up (4 years into our relationship). It’s really weird. I’ve almost fallen into the toilet twice in 2 weeks and he just think its hilarious. He might be doing it on purpose by this point…

  • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 11:10 am

    Guarantee this letter will get one of those follow ups with a million details she left out about how wonderful her boyfriend is.

    • Lindsay Lindsay June 3, 2013, 11:55 am

      It’s going to be like, “Actually, when I wrote this, I was just really frustrated because work was really hard that week and my roof was leaking. He’s actually a really great guy. We decided to get married anyway, and I’m going to hold off on having children until he changes his mind and suddenly wants 5 billion of them.”

  • katie katie June 3, 2013, 11:19 am

    yea, wow, this is such a trainwreck. you both are trainwrecks. you cant fathom why he would want to wait to have kids, or why he thinks that kids drastically change a persons life, and you think its just FUNNY to hear about people’s (sometimes) horrible stories about kids? i think you need a reality check of what having kids, especially having 4 kids, would be like. it will NOT be sunshine and butterflies, i can guarantee that. furthermore, you are allowed to go to your perfect wonderful parents for advice, but he is not? please. you parents are not the perfect beings you view them as, and you most likely, would-put-money-on-it, probably wont be able to have the same life as they did. and, it will be good for you to learn that not every person wants to live like your parents did. and then of course for him, he keeps you on the hook for marriage and babies, has an asshole brother, ect, whatever. you two are really pieces of work- maybe thats why you are so drawn to one another.

    just such a trainwreck. i cant even wrap my head around it.

    you need to learn that life will look different then you planned it. you cant plan it, really. you cant just plan for all these super serious things, and having them look exactly like your parent’s life did, and just having it work out. you need to go blaze your OWN trail, with your own thoughts, actions, hopes and dreams. you need to find a guy who is on the same page, but also who you can build your own life with- not just carbon copy your parents, because they are so awesome. you will not be successful in life if you keep going about it that way. leave this guy, because its so painfully obviously not working, and go figure out your life and how to have a healthy relationship.

  • avatar muffy June 3, 2013, 11:26 am

    You guys sound really happy together. You should get married

  • avatar lemongrass June 3, 2013, 11:28 am

    And this is how people get divorced because they “drifted apart.” Newsflash: you aren’t really together in the first place.

  • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 11:42 am

    Wendy you should have saved this for Short-Cuts. FFS move on already!!

    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 11:46 am

      Also I’m at the social security office. It blows. I think I might get mugged in the parking lot.

      • katie katie June 3, 2013, 11:49 am

        i hate the social security office. i spent a lot of time in there in high school, they are (almost) all jerks.

      • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 11:51 am

        Tell me how long it takes you there. I haven’t gotten my name changed yet because the social security office wouldn’t give me an estimate for how long it takes. I asked if I need to plan on taking a full day off work or if it would take like an hour and they wouldn’t even tell me.

        • katie katie June 3, 2013, 11:53 am

          i highly doubt they will give you an estimate. every time i was there, it just depended on who you got (some workers suck, some are just jerks and screw with you, others are ok), and then what time of day you go, because the wait time is different every day.

          for a first try, take a half day off and go after lunch.

          • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 11:56 am

            gooood grief. I don’t have time for that crap. I hope there’s not a time limit on my free name change because I’ll have to accumulate more vacation time just to do that. Did you say at one point that you changed your name as a teenager or something?

            • katie katie June 3, 2013, 12:00 pm

              no, i had to actually get a social security number assigned to me- it was super complicated and i probably went to the SS office …. 8 times?.. during high school. i mean im sure it wont take you more then one visit but just the wait times to see someone and then if you get someone who is shitty… it could take a while.

              this is assuming you will go to a busy office. although, ive never heard of a not-busy office…

              • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 1:57 pm

                I thought those were assigned when you were born. No?

                • katie katie June 3, 2013, 2:07 pm

                  ha, yea, usually- i had a very interesting childhood…

                  • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 4:03 pm

                    Oh?

        • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 12:13 pm

          I’ve been here 40 minutes so far. I think I checked myself in as the wrong thing because the machine makes no sense. I’m about to leave and come back when they open tomorrow. I think you can do the name change by mail.

          I’d keep putting it off but people wrote checks to my married name and the bank won’t cash them. (I tried.) it’s seriously scary in here.

          • mandalee mandalee June 3, 2013, 12:27 pm

            Yeah, the SS office sucks. When I went to change my name, I showed up ten minutes before they opened and I was out in under 20 minutes. If you don’t want to waste your day, go when they open, anything else and you’re asking to waste your day there.

            • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 1:18 pm

              Idk where you live, but where I live you need to show up literally like an hour and a half before they open bc the lines are cray cray.

          • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 12:57 pm

            I got called up at exactly an hour wait and the name change took 10 minutes at most. The guy was really nice too. Everything else was sketchy.

          • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 3:25 pm

            That’s funny, because my wife got checks for her birthday from her grandmother, and aunt, and they were both made out to her married name even though she hasn’t changed it, but her bank still let her cash them for some reason.

            • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:35 pm

              I’m so jealous. We went to the bank together with a million ID’s and our marriage license and a certified copy, etc etc etc. Pretty much anything I could think of…any they wouldn’t budge. Even the one’s that where “Mr & Mrs LastName” they wouldn’t cash. Which really makes no sense because what if I wasn’t changing my last name?

              • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 3:37 pm

                Yeah that is crazy! They should have at least cashed those ones!

                • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:44 pm

                  They also said the Mr & Mrs one’s HAD to go into a joint account. Well what if we didn’t have a joint account (and weren’t planning on getting one)? You know? Not everyone combines banking or changes last names. I understand being cautious, but jeeze.

                  • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 3:50 pm

                    That’s really nuts, and I don’t think it makes sense. Maybe it’s state-specific, but I always thought that if both people endorsed the check, it was the same as cash. If it’s endorsed and you hand it over to the bank with both people there to approve it, it’s no big deal.

                    This is a perfect example of why you should get to know the people at your bank though. Sometimes they’re just jerks, but our bank has let us fudge the rules on all of this so far because they know and trust us. We always go inside to do our business and make conversation with people. They knew we were getting married, and they know we’re trustworthy, so they just do it anyway.

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:53 pm

                      We use Wells Fargo for a myriad of stupid reasons, and I’m pretty sure that’s why they are sucking so much about it. Big bank equals less customer service, IMO. I’d move to a small local bank, but we could be moving states as soon as next June so it seems like a hassle right now, since the bank we chose might not be where we end up having to move. Plus we have…11 different accounts with them between the two of us…that will be a serious headache to transfer.

                    • theattack theattack June 3, 2013, 4:03 pm

                      Holy crap, you have 11 different accounts? I don’t even know what to do with the three that we have now! That’s wild. We use a big bank too and get good customer service at the two branches we use. I’m sure it just depends on the individual people working at our bank. Maybe yours is just super strict.

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 4:12 pm

                      We have 3 savings accounts, 3 checking accounts, 2 credit cards, a car loan, mine and his student loans…I think he has another savings account too. Yeah…by doing the my money, your money, our money thing it’s resulted in an obscene number of accounts. (My car loan is through another bank all together.)

                      Yeah…simplifying our money is on the to-do list for this summer in a big way.

                  • avatar bethany June 3, 2013, 4:15 pm

                    And that is why I ALWAYS make the check out to one person, not both names.

                    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 4:21 pm

                      Yes!!! After this experience I will forever make out a check in the man’s name only. It was infinitely similar to deposit the checks made out to him alone than any other of the other combo’s. We got one check addressed to just our first names…neither last. The banker looked at us crazy.

          • Skyblossom Skyblossom June 3, 2013, 5:31 pm

            When my MIL sent me a check with my first name and husband’s last name the bank had me put AKA (also known as) on so I signed my actual name and then on the next line I put AKA and the name on the check.

        • avatar bethany June 3, 2013, 2:41 pm

          I was in and out of Social Security (in center city Philadelphia) in an hour. It’s like the DMV- totally hit or miss.

      • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 1:54 pm

        I was at the dmv earlier. Got there just before opening and there was already a line wrapped around the outside. Thankfully, it didn’t take as long as I though it was going to but I had to pay a ton of money to get something so that sucked.

        • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 2:17 pm

          Ugh, the DMV is on my list for tomorrow. That and the bank. Name changes blow.

  • avatar mainer June 3, 2013, 12:04 pm

    This read like a fucking therapy session. By the time I finished I had room-temperature coffee and my frosted cookies melted! God damn it!!

  • avatar lissa June 3, 2013, 12:11 pm

    I don’t think either one of them is a train wreck, and they very well may have been a good couple historically. This letter just screams to me that she is ready to grow up and be an adult, and he is not. Running to mommy for approval about where to go on VACATION??? Definitely hasn’t grown up. I think he’s probably telling the truth – he does want to get married to her *eventually* and he’s even open to kids, but he simply isn’t old enough or mature enough to not have both of those responsibilities scare the bejeesus out of him. The mismatch isn’t that she’s a bitch (I think she’s rightfully frustrated, actually), the mismatch is that she is ready and he simply…isn’t. And he might not be ready for another 10+ years. LW, this is a terribly painful lesson to learn, but it’s one that most people have to deal with at some point. You might have an excellent relationship overall and he may be a fantastic guy, but frankly, you have different life plans. He isn’t going to grow up simply because you are ready to and want him to join you. “Great guy” and “you’re in love” are not reason enough for you two to get married, despite the fairy tale sold to American girls. You and the man you marry DO need to be on the same page about horribly practical things, like timing, size of family, and life priorities, and it’s clear that you and your current bf are not. These are (or should be) deal breakers if you can’t find a compromise with which you both can be HAPPY. I agree that you should move on – otherwise you will wait and wait and waste the time you want to be spending achieving your life goals resenting the man who is not ready to join you. You’ll look up and be 30 and bitter. Find someone who is a great guy, in love, AND with whom you share the same life goals! You will be so much happier.

    • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 3:35 pm

      Growing up doesn’t mean jumping into things you aren’t ready for, just because your friends are, or doing them when one of the two people involved doesn’t want too. I don’t see how anybody could read this letter and say this girl is ready to grow up, with the way she is acting, by putting down the way he was raised, and the fact that his mother wanted to be a stay at home mom, or making fun of him for wanting to pay off expensive school loans before taking on an expensive mortgage with somebody who he may not be with the rest of his life. This guy sounds like he wants to grow up, but his girlfriend wants him to skip part of growing up that he really wants to do, which is be responsible, save his money, make the right decisions, and still enjoy his early twenties with the rest of his friends.

      • Lindsay Lindsay June 3, 2013, 4:16 pm

        Yes yes yes! Not being ready to get married, buy a house or have children a couple of years out of college doesn’t mean you’re immature. And wanting those things doesn’t suddenly mean you’ve grown up. The most mature thing you can do is to not jump into something you’re not emotionally or financially ready for.

      • avatar lissa June 3, 2013, 8:10 pm

        I think her letter was probably written while angry, so I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt about some of her comments and ignoring some others as not central to the main issue (I mean, it’s not the way that I personally would express myself no matter what, but people sometimes feel less inclined towards careful expression of feelings when anonymous on the internet). That said, what I hear overwhelmingly in this letter is frustration and resentment. She’s not dealing with either one very well, but I don’t think that necessarily means that she’s automatically “not ready to grow up,” or that she wants to start building her adult life for the wrong reasons. Her story just reeks of what we’ve ALL seen someone go through, often women in their 30′s, where they are clinging to a man who does not want to settle down with them on any reasonable time scale. It breaks my heart every time I watch a friend go through this. They say all the same things – I want kids! I want to buy a house! He says “someday.” These women all stick around far too long waiting for something that never happens, and I think the best thing for the LW is to understand the mismatch in their priorities. It will help her recognize a mismatch in the future, too. I wasn’t saying that she was *already grown up*, and it sounds like we all agree that she might benefit from some positive changes towards acting more mature! And one of those would be to move on from this relationship. It’s a toxic situation, no matter who you think is to blame.

        And come on, lots of people don’t pay off all of their student loan debt before buying a house. I’m sure a few people do, and maybe I just know WAY too many people with advanced degrees, but lots and lots of people are in their 40′s before they finish paying it off. They are all still good, responsible adults, even if they also want to own a house in their 30′s :) My husband and I did consider using a chunk of our down payment money to finish off our student loans instead, but with the incredibly low SL interest rates we have – well, investing in the house and sticking with the SL payment plan was actually a far more financially sound decision. Sorry, but the math was clear.

        • Lindsay Lindsay June 4, 2013, 10:02 am

          I agree that she shouldn’t “cling” to someone who doesn’t want what she wants and that “someday” is really vague, but saying “someday” when you’re 24 is a lot different from saying it in your 30s. Everyone I know, women included, were saying they wanted kids “someday, but not today” when we were that age, and several of the married couples I know are still saying it. Of course, if she for sure wants to start having kids right now, then “someday” is a bigger problem for her.

          And I don’t think that you have to pay off all your student loans before buying a house, but unless they both make a lot of money, it seems like a slightly risky situation to have a mortgage and all the other costs that go with owning a house on top of paying off student loans and just starting to get a career going (assuming they were able to find good jobs in this economy). Having a house in your 30s is much different than early 20s, I think.

    • bittergaymark Bittergaymark June 3, 2013, 7:27 pm

      Yeah. I think that PROCLAIMING LOUDLY how much of a grown up You are when you so clearly aren’t… reveals one to be far more immature than some poor guy not jumping into what would obviously be a trainwreck of a bad marriage… This endless letter is the most immature and self absorbed b.s. posted here in a while… The LW is so, so NOT ready to be a wife — much less a mother…

  • avatar Miss MJ June 3, 2013, 12:28 pm

    I don’t think either of these people are awful or anything, but I do think they need to break up. This is a relationship that’s run its course. Now that they’re facing the adult world, the LW and her BF have discovered that they clearly want different things, both short and long term, about everything from kids to financial issues, and there really doesn’t sound like much room for compromise here. MOA, LW and find someone who is more compatible with your vision of your adult life. Let your BF move on and find someone who is compatible with his.

  • avatar Sheryl June 3, 2013, 12:39 pm

    I really lost interest, and only skimmed the whole letter.

    The LW needs to take control of her own life, and own up to what SHE wants. She seems content to just hope her bf eventually lines up with hers.

    The little stuff is easily fixable — vacations, yeah, pick somewhere you want to go, and say “hey, I really want to go to *HERE*. unless you come up with somewhere better to go in the next week that we will both enjoy, I’m going to book this. Let me know if you are in or not” Start being more independent on stupid crap, and maybe he’ll take you more seriously (“I’m going to lose her if i don’t start to compromise”).

    Kids / commitment though does seems like you are too far misaligned to really be successful long term– even if he does “eventually” come around, you’ll have built up a lot of resentment… and who knows if he ever really will come around, and there might be resentment on his side. you clearly want more than he does. Since you are still young, i’d set an hard ultimatum date, 1-2 year from now, to see if he starts to change his tune. More friends will start to pair off / have kids, and that will help get out of the ‘my life will be ruined’ mindset.

    The other stuff, I dunno, seems like too much drama for me. In a solid relationship, seems like it could maybe be manageable, but on top of everything else, probably not.

  • Budj budj June 3, 2013, 1:13 pm

    FWIW – Frosting one’s cookies sounds more contextually relevant when positively reminiscing an exciting and new sexual escapade…

    • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 2:00 pm

      I think I’m going yo say that now whenever I tell my friends I need to get laid. I need some frosting on my cookie. Hehe

      • bagge72 bagge72 June 3, 2013, 3:42 pm

        Becarful with that!

        Ookie Cookie
        where a bunch of guys stand in a circle with a cookie in the middle. and then they all have to ejaculate onto the cookie and the last guy to cum has to eat it. Hence the Ookie.

        • avatar Trixy Minx June 3, 2013, 4:07 pm

          Ewww

  • sobriquet sobriquet June 3, 2013, 1:18 pm

    I have so many thoughts after reading this letter! It sounds like the LW was in a complete rage while writing this and that is not a good sign. I once had a boyfriend who made me that angry. I used my journal to vent about him and reading back on the things I wrote years later… let’s just say it sure did sound like I hated the guy. I’m not sure I hated him at the time, but I certainly didn’t love and respect him. I think it’s safe to say that if you can vent about your boyfriend for 9 paragraphs… you are not in a healthy relationship.

    But maybe, just maybe all of these problems have only cropped up because you’ve been pressuring your boyfriend about marriage and a future. You’re annoyed that you don’t have a ring (while all your Facebook friends do…) and so you’re taking it out on him. And suddenly everything problem is exacerbated. I get it. Talking about the future SO MUCH can put a lot of pressure on your relationship, so maybe take a time-out. Stop talking about marriage and kids and a house for the time being. If you simply cannot do that, then just ASK him why he’s hesitant to get married. Ask him when he DOES want to get married… does “awhile” mean 1 year or 4? And maybe figure out why you are in such a rush to marry someone you vented about for 9 paragraphs…

    That’s something you need to figure out whether you stay with your boyfriend or not.

    • avatar Doodles June 3, 2013, 1:23 pm

      Loving the facebook friends comment….
      Wow I hardly ever comment this much….

    • Copa Copa June 3, 2013, 2:58 pm

      While a lot of people on here are being really critical of the LW (which may not have been the case had the tone of the letter been different?), I think many people can probably relate. I know a part of me can. The boyfriend that I had early- to mid-20s was my first serious relationship, and eventually, we were very much together solely because we’d been together for a long time. But neither of us could admit that, not even to ourselves, until our relationship was seriously unhealthy and broken. The last month of that relationship, I think I could’ve easily written an equally long & resentful letter to Wendy. It took a couple months to really click that we no longer even LIKED one another; I knew I still felt love for him, but I needed to understand that loving what he’d been to me at 20/21 (first *real* love) was not the same as being IN love with him. It was just hard to accept because before him, my longest relationship had only lasted 6 months. Sooo, yeah. Pointless rant over!

  • sobriquet sobriquet June 3, 2013, 1:20 pm

    Oh and also? If you’re super ready to get married to someone, don’t date guys below the age of, say, 27. It just gives you better odds of finding someone who is ready to settle down.

    • avatar BreezyAM June 3, 2013, 4:26 pm

      Eight million freaking times THIS. This guys is just NOT in that frame of mind yet and honestly that is REALLY NORMAL.

  • avatar Lily in NYC June 3, 2013, 1:36 pm

    If you’ve been together since early in college, I am guessing this is one of your first “serious” relationships. I could have written this in my early 20s – I was so unused to “failing” at anything that I let my first relationships last way longer than they should have because: 1. I didn’t want to fail. 2. I was too inexperienced with serious relationships to realize that we were completely incompatible. But I just didn’t have enough other boyfriends to compare what was normal and what wasn’t.
    You can care about someone without them being right for you. And this guy is not right for you. If you are having all of these problems now, just think of how much worse it’s going to get. Please, please understand, there are so many guys out there that are better for you. You are going to look back and cringe when you think of how much time you wasted with this guy. Just move on. But one more thing: there’s nothing wrong with his not wanting to talk about kids and moving forward – you seem to be hell-bent on getting married and having kids ASAP. What’s the rush?

  • findingtheearth findingtheearth June 3, 2013, 1:47 pm

    The comments are always better than the letter.

    Move on. It’s okay. The world will not end. I promise.

    If you are financially okay, then buy your own damn house. Get your own life going. Do your own thing. You do not need a man in order to be successfully fulfilled in life. Spouses are for amateurs.

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 2:05 pm

      I’m in love with you.

  • avatar AKchic June 3, 2013, 2:20 pm

    I am wondering why the fuck you stay in this relationship. Period. End of question.

    Your boyfriend does not respect your suggestions, your opinions, is led by the balls by his mother, allows you to be disrespected by his mother and brother and allows you to be put in DANGER by his obviously mental brother, and has no respect for your family, while at the same time does not honor your values. He also does not hold the same familial opinions you do. You two cannot agree on the amount of children you want, and he cannot commit to anything and gaslights you on vacation planning.

    Walk the fuck away and stop wasting your damned time.

    • avatar lets_be_honest June 3, 2013, 2:43 pm

      I think you mean “I am wondering why the fuck you stay in this relationship. Question mark.”
      :)

  • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:00 pm

    I disagree with those who think 24 is too young to be talking about kids. It’s too young to be having kids (well it technically isn’t, but I fully condone waiting until you are older, wiser, and more financially stable) but it’s not too young to think of what you want.
    I think 24 is a good age to be thinking realistically- how many kids do I want? If I was part of a big family, did I like that? If I was part of a small family, did I like that? Do I think kids needs siblings to be happy? Etc. So if he has really thought about it and decided he wants 0 to 1 kids, then I don’t think growing up will make him come around to 4. Certainly I will never come up from 1- 2 kids; I’ve wanted no more than 2 kids since I was in high school and marrying a wonderful guy who would have happily gone for 4 did nothing to change that.

    • avatar GatorGirl June 3, 2013, 3:07 pm

      I agree. We started dating at 22 and by 24 we had pretty clearly discussed our expectations relating to marriage, children, where we would live, etc etc etc. And so far we’ve “lived up” to all of our expectations.

      Part of dating is exploring your expectations and seeing if they are a match. In this case, I don’t think they are.

    • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:09 pm

      Oh also, I think its a red flag if you hate his family. Not like you always have to like an SO’s family, but if you hate them that much and get into physical alterations with his rapey brother… Is that really a family you want to marry into? It seems like you think he will one day wise up and choose you over his family; but he probably won’t, and you will be stuck with them in your life and your children’s lives for the long haul.
      It’s not 100% true that you must like the family, of course, but if you and he aren’t on the same page about them, you’re heading for trouble.

    • Copa Copa June 3, 2013, 3:18 pm

      Although I think a lot of 24 year olds still don’t know what they want, I do agree that it’s a good age to start thinking realistically about your future. But, I don’t think this LW is being particularly realistic in how she thinks about kids. Her cavalier attitude about how easy it will be to raise 4 children makes it hard for me to believe that even she knows what she really wants. To me, it kinda read like, “Well, 4 kids sounds like a lot of fun and EVERYONE is having them and everyone KEEPS having them, so how hard could it really be!?”

      • avatar SpaceySteph June 3, 2013, 3:29 pm

        Yeah that might be true, I read it more as he keeps freaking out about how terrible having kids is but obviously its not terrible if the same people complaining are also deciding to have more. Which is true, I think people like to tell the stories of the time the kid pooped in bed or whatever- not because having kids is truly awful but because that stuff is funny- and that tends to scare the childless off because we’re not used to dealing with other people’s bodily functions. But the truth is, you get used to that crap. (hah, punny)

        I agree that having kids is a huge mental, emotional, physical, and fiscal drain and that every time you decide to have a kid, whether it’s your first or your 10th, you need to think about whether you can afford it in all those ways.

  • avatar rightasrain919 June 3, 2013, 3:46 pm

    WWS.

    I agree with previous commenters that this sounds like a good college relationship, but now that more serious issue are under considerations the LW and BF are finding how completely incompatible they are. This relationship has become one of convenience.

  • bittergaymark bittergaymark June 3, 2013, 4:20 pm

    Odd letter. It is rather obvious that the LW’s BF has no interest whatsoever in marrying her — and frankly, I am not surprised. Sorry, but you two simply are NOT much of a match. And having three to four kids in a moral abomination in this day of age. Seriously, the world is busting at the seams. Give it a rest already. Your genes aren’t THAT great. (And yes, this seems especially true after reading your letter…) PS your ongoing contempt for his family — especially his parents — and friends is simply ugly.

  • avatar BreezyAM June 3, 2013, 4:36 pm

    Be very, very careful LW. You have a very passive aggressive boyfriend. I don’t mean that as an insult to him or you. Just some people are much more passive in how they express their issues with their partner. You seem far more assertive.

    A little over 10 years ago I was with a guy I wanted to marry rightfuckingnow. And have kids with. Rightfuckingnow. In my defence, I already had two, didn’t want a huge age difference, and was already going to be 30 when we married. I waited almost four more years to have a kid with him for a whole lotta reasons. One of which is …. he wasn’t ready to be married. But I pretty much had railroaded him into it. I mean he wanted to get married. He wanted to marry me. He wanted kids. Just… not RightFuckingNow. And he also didn’t want to tell me no and break my heart. And he didn’t feel comfortable saying “in two years” because he knew then I’d hold him to that timeline precisely and you know, he just wasn’t sure when he’d want to do but he had some other things he wanted to do first and…

    I ended up in a shitty angry clusterfuck of a marriage. It took a good 5-6 years for us to figure out how to get on the right track.

    Ironically, I bet if you’d get off his ass about this stuff, go buy your own damn house, go book a vacation, he’d probably come along happily. But right now he’s got two women fighting over who gets to bust his balls. He just wants you both to STFU and leave him in peace. This is the guy who will zone out on Warcraft, pot, booze, other women, golf, various hobbies…. just to get away from mom and wife’s constant yammering. You go work on being you. He’ll come around when he wants to. Or not. In which case it won’t matter because you’ll be living your awesome life as awesome you, and if a Mister Awesome should come along, you’ll be much more appealing than the shrill harpy you’ve become in this relationship.

  • avatar Boosker June 3, 2013, 8:32 pm

    Whoa lady, you spent almost 1,000 words telling us all the ways your boyfriend sucks and then you ask if he’s marriage material? You know he’s not. You just explained why…at length. Also, I personally like my cookies frosted *wink.

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