Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

“My Fiancé Is Registered on Two Cheating Sites!”

It’s time again for Shortcuts. For every question, I’ll give my advice in three sentences or less, because sometimes the answer to a person’s question is so obvious and the need to hear it so great, being as clear and frank as possible is simply the best way to go. Today we discuss leaving a cheater and when to confess feelings for a good friend.

My boyfriend/fiancé have been together for almost five years and we have two children together. I was going through his emails and noticed that he had registered at two different cheating sites. What do I do? — Cheater’s Babymama

 
Confront him about it but be prepared for excuses, denials, and guilt-shifting (i.e. “Why were you going through my email?!”). Begin forming an exit plan, including but not limited to: canceling your wedding; opening your own bank account if you don’t already have one; securing your own residence; saving enough money for moving costs, first month’s rent and deposit; and contacting an attorney to discuss custody of your children.

Several years ago while I was in college I met a now good friend who was his early-mid 20s. He was in a band (I know, so cliche), and I was hooked at first sight of him. Over the years as we’ve supported each other through moves, career changes, break ups, etc, my crush on the hot guy in a great band has turned into love for the good friend in a great band.

Over time I’ve taken over managing a large part of his music career. It is something that I have done with other bands, and something I love getting to do. The guy in question has had multiple long term relationships in the time we’ve known each other, living with two, including his current girlfriend. This, along with my terrifying fear of admitting to ANY guy what my real feelings are, have held me back from saying anything or attempting to make any sort of first move.

My true fears in saying anything are based on three things: losing his friendship, losing the ability to do something I am passionate about, and losing a large piece of my world where I feel most at home. But the last time we saw each other, I did a sort of experiment. I purposely picked out a certain look for myself that he has commented on more than once in the past, and while I was not surprised that the flirting meter went up because of it, I was not expecting the level that happened. There were lingering hugs, an arm way below “Friendship” level around my waist, major eye contact, major physical interaction, and that electric feeling you get when you KNOW something is going on that is unspoken. It is to be noted that his girlfriend was not present that evening, but numerous mutual friends were.

My question then becomes two fold: Do I say something and when? What would I say? Knowing his relationship “pattern” and hearing certain comments lead me to believe this girl isn’t the one, but who knows. Do I live with this secret forever? Help! — Inability to Speak

 
You sort of lost me when you said he lives with his girlfriend. Until/unless that’s no longer an issue, I’d quit conducting “experiments” and just be a friend/manager. If you’re ever both single again at the same time, then for the love of God, quit playing juvenile games and just ask the guy out already, sheesh.

*If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, send me your letters at [email protected] and be sure to follow me on Twitter.

80 comments… add one
  • avatar

    Callifax October 7, 2011, 7:29 am

    LW2 – the dude is taken. Definitely back off, let him see where his relationship is going, and in the meanwhile, start meeting and dating other (single) guys. If and when they break up, THEN taken the bull by the horns and be straightforward and ask him out. But wait until then. Imagine how you’d feel if he was your boyfriend and someone else was trying to get with him while you weren’t around.

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    • avatar

      Lydia October 7, 2011, 8:09 am

      I agree with everything except “wait until then” because it might make her put her life on hold, hoping and waiting for him to eventually break up. Don’t do that, LW2. Just go and live your life, without any romantic hopes for him. There are so many other awesome guys in the world.

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    • avatar

      Riefer October 7, 2011, 10:12 am

      And the fact that he’s taken may lead him to actually be more flirtatious than when he’s single. He may have just been having fun, and since you’re a friend and he’s taken, it was a “safe” flirtation. It doesn’t follow that if you were both single, he would do the same thing.

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  • Just Max

    Just Max October 7, 2011, 8:29 am

    I think a post about how to put together an “exit plan” would be a great idea.
    “If you answer ‘yes’ to any of the following questions, proceed with exit plan.” 😉

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  • avatar

    Kerrycontrary October 7, 2011, 8:34 am

    LW3- you are basically trying to get this guy to cheat on you with his live-in girlfriend. Especially when you “dress a certain way” which I’m assuming is a little more revealing than your other outfits? It’s not the GF’s fault that you didnt have the balls to speak up about your feelings over the past couple of years. Follow Wendy’s advice and leave the guy alone until/if he’s single again.

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  • FireStar

    FireStar October 7, 2011, 8:47 am

    LW1: I think there are two types of cheaters: a situational cheater – the situation or circumstance “led” him to cheating. To be clear – still his choice ultimately to betray his partner – for example his band manager was conducting a campaign of seduction – but for that situation/circumstance he would not have cheated; the second type of cheater is the deliberate, serial cheater – the man who actively pursues other women so that he can be unfaithful. Personally, cheating of any sort means game over for me but that is not true for everyone. I’ve heard of couples working through infidelity but I’ve got to think it is in the first situation only. A man who has multiple profiles up on cheating sites will never be trustworthy. I’m sorry – arrange for child support when you are at your attorney’s office – and perhaps a visit to your doctor for some testing would be in order too.
    LW2: Don’t be THAT girl. If it is meant to be, you will both be free eventually and you can conduct all the experiments you want then.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:17 am

      This is a great perspective and hopefully eye-opening for LW1. Thanks for sharing.

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    • avatar

      ReginaRey October 7, 2011, 8:50 am

      I agree with your breakdown of cheaters. It’s the difference between premeditating or not. In a court of law…premeditation gets you a LOT more jail time. This guy had every intention of cheating on his wife.

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      • FireStar

        FireStar October 7, 2011, 9:43 am

        And I would bet ALREADY cheated. Your first foray into cheating isn’t going to be two public profiles up on cheating sites.

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  • avatar

    wendyblueeyes October 7, 2011, 8:55 am

    Definitely form an exit plan first. Write it down so that you can see in black and white what is involved. Touch base with people who will help you through this-your siblings, your parents?-without tipping the guy off. Parts of the exit plan: open your own checking account, savings account, credit card, bank safe deposit box. Figure out how much money you will need to get by for 3 months. Save it. When all this is in place, contact a lawyer. Lastly, hire a moving van to come in and move you while he’s at work. Hopefully he will be served his divorce papers the same day.
    True story: friend was in the hospital for a week. Her husband came to visit ZERO times during the week. The day she came home from the hospital, her parents hired a moving van to come in and move her stuff out. She took all the good stuff and left him the crap. Two years later the crummy husband was shot to death in bed by the husband of his mistress.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:18 am

      Holy sh*t. That’s some story!

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    • avatar

      Eljay October 7, 2011, 9:49 am

      Yikes!

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  • avatar

    Sarah October 7, 2011, 9:05 am

    LW2, you really need to quit it. What’s the best case scenario here? He bangs you (yay! finally! says your 18yo self), dumps the gf, takes up with you, and w/in 6 months, you’re writing in a new letter that says, Oh, poor me, my boyfriend cheated with me, how do I know he won’t cheat on me? Honestly, grow up.

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    • avatar

      iseeshiny October 7, 2011, 1:25 pm

      Not to mention mixing business with pleasure is rarely a good idea.

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  • avatar

    silver_dragon_girl October 7, 2011, 9:06 am

    Can I just say that when I saw the headline for this post I knew it was going to be an interesting day?

    LW1: Your bf/fiance (seriously, which one is he?) is scum. In the weeks to come, try to focus on the positive- at least you found this out *before* you actually married the guy. Confront him, dump him, and leave.

    LW2: Um, I don’t really know what to say. The guy has a live-in gf, and you’re putting the moves on him subtly. No, you didn’t grab his crotch or start making our or anything, but still. How would you feel if it worked, you got him, and then he left you for some other chick who was seducing him out from under you? If he’s the kind of guy who falls for that, you don’t want him anyway. Try to put the crush out of your mind and focus on being his friend/manager. Date other guys. Distract yourself with someone else. If you’re ever both single at the same time, then go for it.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:21 am

      Don’t even bother confronting him! All that does is leave him with the chance of talking himself out of it. Unless you’re cool with being cheated on and will continue to be cool with it in the future, get out LW1. Your kids will respect you for it.

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      • avatar

        silver_dragon_girl October 7, 2011, 9:56 am

        You have a point, but I still say she should have it out with him at some point. It would probably go better *after* she leaves though. I think it’s necessary for closure.

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  • avatar

    artsygirl October 7, 2011, 9:23 am

    Both LWs – Leave these men. LW1 he is a cheat or is planning to be a cheat. LW2 he is willing to be a cheat.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:26 am

      Why do you say LW2 guy is willing to cheat? I didn’t get that from the letter.

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      • avatar

        Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 9:38 am

        Well, there was the “arm way below friendship” – I’m assuming the guy grabbed her ass. I don’t care how sexy LW2 dressed up for her “experiment” – that’s not an invitation to grab your manager’s ass… and he is the one with a girlfriend so I’m going to say he sucks and is a douche and seems at least willing to cheat on some level. At least the ass grabbing level.

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      • avatar

        Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 9:42 am

        Actually, in this case, maybe she did invite him to grab her ass… but my comment was intended only to be about his willingness to cheat on some level. Ick, it’s messy.

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      • avatar

        amber October 7, 2011, 9:50 am

        yeah, it would be interesting to know what the mutual friends thought of the interaction. she says they were there but didn’t say what their reaction was. i have to wonder if he really was crossing a line if there would have been some sort of comment made….and i also wonder if some of the things she felt/saw were because she really wanted to, and not because they were actually there?

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:52 am

        Eh, if some two bit tramp was naked dancing in circles around my bf, I still wouldn’t think it’d be ok if he groped her. Invite to grab doesn’t make it ok.

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      • avatar

        TheOtherMe October 7, 2011, 10:11 am

        “two bit tramp” — you’re killing me today !

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      • avatar

        Lydia October 7, 2011, 10:33 am

        Also, dancing naked in circles around a guy is not an invitation to be touched without permission. (Sorry, this is probably not how you meant it, but I was reminded of some rape apologists by your comment)

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      • avatar

        Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 10:39 am

        100% agree! Though I don’t think that’s how she meant it.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 10:39 am

        No, that’s not what I meant. I should’ve said something like naked and throwing herself on him.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:49 am

        OK, if your assumption is correct, then I agree. I didn’t read it that way though. She seems juvenile and I took it like his hand was near her hip, rather than waist. I guess I took it that way because she seems to be grasping at straws looking for a sign that he’s into her.

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      • avatar

        Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 9:57 am

        That’s all together possible too and makes sense.

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      • avatar

        GingerLaine October 7, 2011, 9:56 am

        I read it as though he had his arm around her hip… you know, “reserved for significant other” kind of territory. Seems like if he grabbed her ass, it would be way easier to just say “he put his hand on my ass” rather than “arm way below friendship level.”

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      • avatar

        artsygirl October 7, 2011, 10:25 am

        Even if the guy didn’t grab her ass – he still engaged in sexual flirting with the LW in front of a group of their friends. It is on him because he is in the relationship – he has made a commitment to his girlfriend. If the LW is to be believed there was a lot of contact and sexual tension during their hang out. She approached the event by dressing sexy and basically saying “Come get me” and he responded. Not cool on either of their parts.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 10:38 am

        I re-read the letter. All she says, and keep in mind its only her perspective, is “There were lingering hugs, an arm way below “Friendship” level around my waist, major eye contact, major physical interaction, and that electric feeling…” These are things SHE perceived to be happening. Hugs, nothing wrong with that imo. Arm around her waist, I do that in every picture I’ve probably ever taken, so nothing wrong with that really either. Eye contact, I look in the eye of anyone who talks to me. Physical interaction and electric feeling, she felt electric, we don’t know that he did and the physical interaction, well, they work together. It could be said I physically interact with everyone in my office. That doesn’t mean I’m trying to get in their pants. I really don’t see anything that says he acted inappropriately.

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      • avatar

        amber October 7, 2011, 10:57 am

        yeah, i agree with you. i’m thinking some of these things she thought were happening, were only happening in her mind. or were made more dramatic in her head.

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  • avatar

    lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:25 am

    LW2 – You are a tramp and an idiot. You think you had some cosmic connection because he hugged you and looked you in the eyes? Um, the cashier at Walmart looks me in the eyes when I hand him $ to pay for toilet paper. I don’t think we have a cosmic connection. You sound like a 15 y/o with your plans of seduction and even worse when you think you two had some connection because he hugged you back. I have zero tolerance for women like you. Hope you get what’s comin to ya.

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    • avatar

      Laurel October 7, 2011, 11:00 am

      I’m so glad Wendy got rid of the thumbs down. It’s really improved the atmosphere here; people are so much more helpful, empathetic and kind in their advice!!

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 11:19 am

        Laurel, funnily enough I agree with you and I also am bothered when commanders are mean for no reason to the LWs. However, this girl is actively going after a man in a committed relationship therefore has earned zero sympathy from me. I hope she reevaluates her behavior after reading my comment.

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      • CatsMeow

        CatsMeow October 7, 2011, 12:57 pm

        Hasn’t anyone else here had a crush on someone who’s involved with someone else? I know I have. And it SUCKS, especially when you’re already close to the person you’re crushing on, AND when you feel like their current relationship is “not right”.

        So far, she hasn’t done anything except wear something she knows he likes, and then read probably way too much into his reactions, or her perceptions of his reactions. She didn’t say she wants him to be unfaithful, or that she would participate if he initiated something.

        THAT said – I don’t think she should tell him how she feels and put undue pressure on him to end his current relationship. That’s just asking for trouble. If there is something between them, then HE needs to realize that – on his own – and break up with his current GF – on his own.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 1:02 pm

        I think you bring up a very good and fair point. I admit I jumped on the LW when I read about her “experiment.” You don’t go running around trying to get a reaction like she was looking for when the other party is in a relationship. But to see it the way you’ve explained it helps me to see it in a different light. I still think what she did was inappropriate, BUT there certainly is nothing you can do about a crush. You can’t not have a crush on someone just because they’re married. What you can do is not act on it and not TRY to make him act on it, like I think she did. Of course, if he had, its on him.

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      • CatsMeow

        CatsMeow October 7, 2011, 4:09 pm

        Yeah. If she was, like, “scheming” to berak them up, then I’d be harsher on her. I’m just not sure if that’s the case this time. She might just be trying to ascertain if he could possibly feel the same way about her.

        But like I said, it’s in everyone’s best interests for her to back off and NOT say anything to him!

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 12:49 pm

        During the DW downtime I thought more about your comment. I appreciate you calling me out for being bitchy. Its not helpful at all. While I stand by my statement of her deserving no sympathy, I could’ve given helpful advice. So thanks.

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      • avatar

        Laurel October 7, 2011, 1:03 pm

        Thank you for reconsidering. I know we all come here with different perspectives, but it’s helpful to remember that there are real people behind the computers. Even if you disagree with someone’s behavior, tearing them down is not a good way to give constructive advice.

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      • avatar

        hhr October 7, 2011, 1:20 pm

        This is called the “Comment” section and not the “Helpful Advice” section. All sorts of comments, thoughts, feelings, and judgments from readers can prove helpful to a LW I’m sure.

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  • avatar

    DDL October 7, 2011, 9:31 am

    LW1 – You have two children with your boyfriend/fiance and you have found out he intends to cheat. Well, I’d follow Wendy’s advice, and I would it for your children because you don’t want them caught in a big ugly mess of “he said, she said, I’m taking the children, no you’re not!”. And, please, for the love of God, don’t marry him!!

    LW2 – Do you flirt with all you “taken” male friends? Doubt it. So why are you doing it with this one? You never made a move when he was single, and neither did he, which would lead me to believe that he’s not quite interested in dating you. If he wanted to date you, he’d of made move by now. As for your “experiments”, what exactly is a ‘hand below friendship level’? Ummm, was he grabbing your ass? I don’t know, but I do know that when you dress up in a look that men like, you will get responses. Chances are, how you dressed was a look that he likes girls to have and it made him become more physically attracted to you. This does not mean he want to marry you!! He has a girlfriend who, I’m assuming, he loves, and you want to get in the way. You are his manager, which was your choice to take that role, BTW, and you are not acting in a professional manner! So, lose the get-up, lose the puppy-dog eyes, and start taking your job seriously! Oh, and start seeing other men, preferably ones without girlfriends.

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  • avatar

    ReginaRey October 7, 2011, 8:36 am

    LW1 – I hope that you asking “What do I do?” doesn’t mean “Should I stay with him?” Please don’t let your fiance convince you that because he may not have done anything physically, it doesn’t count as cheating. He registered on TWO cheating websites. He proved without a shadow of a doubt that he had every intention to cheat on you. A solid, healthy marriage is built upon trust and mutual respect. Your fiance has proved that you can’t trust him, and that he certainly doesn’t respect YOU. So respect yourself – don’t stay with someone who was trying to cheat on you. Devise a smart plan, enlisting the help of family and friends, and leave this crummy relationship.

    LW2 – You’re incredibly hung up on this guy, and it’s leading you to act like a 15-year-old. Doing social experiments to see if he’ll flirt with you, even though he has a girlfriend?? This isn’t high school! You were in college YEARS ago, so you must be in your mid-twenties at least. You’re far too old to be acting with this little maturity.

    He has a girlfriend. Don’t try to come between that. If you do, and end up getting what you “want,” I promise you’ll suffer a great karmic backfire. You need to repeat a mantra to yourself: “People in relationships are off-limits!” Say it over and over again. Stop purposefully dressing to please him. Stop flirting with him. Limit your communication with him as much as possible. Ask to be set up with other people. Date other guys. If you’re “meant to be” with this guy, then it will happen one day. But it won’t end well for you if it happens while he’s still in a relationship.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 9:15 am

      She’s already due some great karmic backfire if you ask me.

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      • avatar

        Eljay October 7, 2011, 9:47 am

        So true.

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  • avatar

    Lindsay October 7, 2011, 9:48 am

    LW1: Though a boyfriend with a dating site account could have simply forgotten to close it, a fiance on a cheating site (two even!) generally doesn’t have any harmless excuses. I imagine that one of them might be: “But I’ve never acted on it.” So? Nobody joins a cheating site who isn’t at least contemplating cheating, and I wouldn’t want to marry someone like that.

    LW2: Everything you’ve said is moot because he has a girlfriend. If you happened to “snag” him, it would mean that you’d ended up with a guy who can easily be stolen from his girlfriend by flirtation and sexiness, which is not a good quality in a boyfriend. Not only that, but chances are that if the only time he was willing to be with you was because of your sexy look, despite you knowing him for years, it would most likely be for sex. Move on and find someone not taken who is really into you!

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  • avatar

    Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 10:02 am

    This is completely off topic but until a chat box appears on this website I have to just comment here: I want everyone to know that today I am getting work done, damnit! If you see me commenting anymore please remind me to get back to work.

    Also, I want to color my hair red. Regina Rey, did you ever go red like you said you were? I think you should update your pic to show us… I want to go red too, but I have dark brown hair and so wonder if it will even show up without needing to first bleach my hair, which I’d rather not do.

    Ok, I’m getting to work now, and this time I mean it.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 10:04 am

      You are too cute. And yes, RR–we wanna see some pics!

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        Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 10:42 am

        RR is probably, gasp, working. What a show off. I’m going back to work and not checking this cite until *after* lunch.

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    • JK

      JK October 7, 2011, 10:12 am

      I´m thinking the same about housework I need to do, unfortunately with my 3 yo home from kindy because of the crappy weather today I don´t think I´ll get much done (not to mention my natural procrastination).
      WHat kind of red were you thinking? I guess a darker red would be ok with your hair. I´d love to get my hair an auburnish colour, unfortunately my husband always says he prefers my natural colour *sigh*

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      • avatar

        Addie Pray October 7, 2011, 10:37 am

        Yeah, I was thinking auburn … Work Addie Pray, damnit!!!!!

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      ReginaRey October 7, 2011, 10:50 am

      Yes, I went red! I really like it…I’ll try to send Wendy a new pic for my guest columns, but I haven’t taken any that I’m in love with yet. It’s hard to show what it really looks like on camera…it either looks too brown or too red. But I digress. Yes, I’m fairly certain if you want to go red and you’re a dark brown, you have to bleach it first. I’m naturally a dirty blonde, so no bleaching was required. My stylist did it…I did NOT trust myself with box color. The one downside I’m noticing is how quickly it fades. It’s been like a week and a half and I can already tell that it’s duller, AND I’ve only been washing it every other day to preserve color. So definitely plan for the upkeep of it!

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      • avatar

        Ktfran October 7, 2011, 12:56 pm

        You might want to ask your hairstylest if there is a shampoo for red heads to help keep the color. I use an Aveda shampoo for my blonde hair to keep it from looking brassy.

        Or, Wendy or other red heads who read this blog might know?

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  • avatar

    Bklyn Grl October 7, 2011, 10:26 am

    Hmm… my initial reaction to LW1 was, of course, MOA! But… the letter is so short on detail, and they have (significantly) two kids together. On the one hand, maybe this guy is just a scumball and she should MOA while she can. On the other hand, she can never completely MOA (because of the kids) and, while it’s not a popular thing to say, cheating is frequently a SYMPTOM of a bad relationship, not the cause. For the sake of your children, I think it is worth exploring what the underlying cause might be (if any). I’m not saying that having relationship problems justifies cheating (joining those cheating sites was a major red flag and a scummy thing to do), but I don’t think we have enough information to say the relationship is beyond saving.

    I think now is a time for brutal honesty. You have to confront him with what you found. If he can be honest about what he has done (including actual cheating, if any)… and if he can point to some (legitimate) wedge that has been coming between the two of you… and if you are both willing to work hard to resolve that problem… and if he can promise to recommit himself fully and faithfully to this relationship… and if you believe him and think you can forgive him… well… then maybe you two can start walking a long hard road towards rebuilding. But if any of those steps is missing, I think you are better off following Wendy’s advice, and the sooner the better.

    And, it should go without saying, don’t keep heading towards marriage until you are confident you have worked this all out!

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  • Budj

    Budjer October 7, 2011, 10:47 am

    LW 2,

    It’s a lot easier when you are shy to get to know “taken” people because there is very little pressure. Knock the pattern off – it is a pain in the ass – and typically when you get the person they aren’t even emotionally ready to be dating you after their previous relationship. Shitty relationship foundation + bad relationship karma for you = inevitable bad news.

    LW 1,

    Just don’t cut off his penis. You’ll get in trouble.

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    • avatar

      ReginaRey October 7, 2011, 10:52 am

      Fun fact of the day: The same plastic surgeon who sewed Lorena Bobbit’s husband’s penis back on also stitched me up after being scratched in the face by my dog at age 4.

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        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 10:53 am

        There’s a huge joke in there somewhere. All I could come up with was hope he washed his hands. I know, not funny at all, and gross. Anyone else who actually is funny want to chime in?

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      • Budj

        Budj October 7, 2011, 12:44 pm

        So I’m only a few degrees of separation from them. No way!

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 1:24 pm

        whoa. egg? new name? too much change for me to handle.

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      • Budj

        Budjer October 7, 2011, 2:17 pm

        No more egg.

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      • Budj

        Budj October 7, 2011, 2:18 pm

        accidental name slip.

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  • avatar

    silver_dragon_girl October 7, 2011, 12:34 pm

    Alternately: LW1, make a profile on the same sites and arrange a date with him.
    Just a thought.

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    • avatar

      TheOtherMe October 7, 2011, 12:41 pm

      Lol I had the same thought but was waiting for someone else to say it 🙂

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    • mandalee

      mandalee October 7, 2011, 1:54 pm

      LOVE this idea. I always a fan of the dramatic soap opera ending to catching a cheater. It really does nothing, but the vindication must feel good for about five seconds after you see the look on their face.

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  • avatar

    HmC October 7, 2011, 12:57 pm

    I can’t stand when girls comment that they *know* a guy doesn’t really want to be with the girl he’s with. You’re either A) dead wrong and he does want to be with her and you’re seeing things that aren’t there or B) crushing on someone who is in a relationship with someone they don’t want, making them a coward and a user. Do either of those scenarios make a man attractive to an emotionally healthy woman? NO!

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    • avatar

      6napkinburger October 7, 2011, 1:13 pm

      But sometimes relationships take a long time to end, especially with details like people living together or a really long time invested and incapatabilities that are coming to light but not fully out in the open. Most of us have been in relationships that *should have* ended way before they did. During that extra time, people aren’t always users or cowards; for the most part, they are confused and tentative and still have feelings for their partner, just not ultimately enough feelings. (I am DEFINTELY projecting, so i’ll take that criticism upfront). Not that its ok to make real moves on people in those situations, or for them to make real moves on others, but a girl Friend “knowing” that a guy is in that place isn’t always indulging in make-believe (though I’ll grant you many are), and a guy who really is in that place until it finally does end isn’t always a grade-A shithead for not definitively ending it sooner.

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    • mandalee

      mandalee October 7, 2011, 2:00 pm

      HmC, you are so right! I was one of those girls that was convinced that my huge crush at 18 was very unhappy with his girlfriend. They seemed like total opposites and would bicker sometimes, and in my head, I’d be like “See they should break up, we’d be so much better”. My girl friends would back me up and help me look for signs they weren’t meant to be. It wasn’t until my best guy friend was pulled me aside and said, Listen, take it from a guy, if he’s not happy, he’ll eventually end it, but at the moment, he loves her enough or likes her enough to stay, so stay out of it. Stop dreaming and move on. Best advice I have ever gotten to date.

      Oh, and the guy I was in love with- MARRIED the girlfriend I was convinced was a bad match and they’re going on five years happily. Sometimes we turn our reality into what we want to see, then what is truly the case.

      LW, go find an available guy, or be single and just do you. Pining for some guy who isn’t available is so dramatic for both of you, leave that to soap operas and the CW.

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  • Skyblossom

    Skyblossom October 7, 2011, 1:23 pm

    LW1 Maybe it’s his way of making you breakup with him. He makes sure he has these things in his email for you to find so that you leave him. That way he’s not the bad guy for calling off the wedding but he gets out of it if he doesn’t really want to get married.

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  • avatar

    6napkinburger October 7, 2011, 1:37 pm

    LW2:
    I remember a time in middle school when the worst thing that could possibly happen to you was for your crush to find out you liked him (or her). High school, sometimes too. But I realized recently that one of the best parts of being an adult who gets to have sex and have relationships is that we get to DATE people we like. We don’t just have to like them from afar. (I’m not being snarky, I really did think about this somewhat recently.)

    So while this dude is offlimits right now and its not great to go around telling guys in relationships who you have a very very close relationship with that you like them, your line: “This, along with my terrifying fear of admitting to ANY guy what my real feelings are, have held me back from saying anything or attempting to make any sort of first move” really bums me out. You are at least 22 from your description of “when you were in college”, so you have to lose that attitude. You GET to tell guys you like them. Most won’t like you back, but so what? Do YOU like most guys you know? Nope. So its a numbers game and it isn’t a reflection on you.

    Change your focus. Deal with your feelings for this dude later. Right now, deal with this “crippling fear.” Middle school sucked. Too many zits, too few friends, and no martinis and fancy shoes that hurt like hell but look fierce. Re-evaluate why this is so hard for your and take affirmative steps to deal with this problem. Maybe therapy, maybe just doing really hard things like asking guys out. Your other problem will resolve itself on its own (he’ll either keep dating her or they’ll break up.) If they break up, you’ll be able to deal with it in the way you want and ask him out! If they don’t, you’ll have found someone else to like and actually TOLD them, and might even be in a relationship with him. Its win win!

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  • avatar

    Lindsey October 7, 2011, 2:41 pm

    LW2, this dude has had at least 2 MAJOR relationships in the years you’ve known him, none of which have been with you. What else is there to figure out?

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    • Budj

      Budj October 7, 2011, 2:43 pm

      I was going to mention that too – the odds that he is looking for some short term friskiness with the LW instead of a real relationship is very high because of that context…the only way this isn’t the case is if she is really valuable to his band and he doesn’t want to ruin the relationship with romantic context. That’s something only the LW can answer.

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  • avatar

    GatorGirl October 7, 2011, 3:00 pm

    They actually have sites dedicated to classifieds for cheating?!? How sick!

    Can’t the some how be twisted to facilitating a crime since adultry is a crime in some places?

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    • mandalee

      mandalee October 7, 2011, 3:12 pm

      Yes, it’s very disgusting. The most popular is Ashley Madison. I’ve watched the founder of it give many interviews on how he doesn’t think he’s attributing to cheating, he’s just giving them an easier avenue. If that makes you sleep better at night buddy, good for you. Cheaters are always going to find ways to cheat, but profiting from someone else’s indiscretions? Gross.

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      • katie

        katie October 7, 2011, 8:42 pm

        yea- i remember hearing one of those and he said that it takes away the situations where the cheating spouse finds someone to sleep with on an online dating site, but the other person is not looking to be with a cheater- they are actually looking for a relationship, not to be the “other woman” or whatever… so he thinks that the site is actually helping the OTHER people, by taking the cheaters away and putting them all in one place to cheat with other cheaters.

        even though there is some logic to that explaination, i still think its sick.

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    • bittergaymark

      bittergaymark October 7, 2011, 6:33 pm

      Strangely, I had not heard much about these sites either.

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  • bittergaymark

    bittergaymark October 7, 2011, 4:18 pm

    Eh, I am so bored with people shacking up and then expecting to be handed all the perks of marriage such as monogomy. You know what, ladies? Get your shit together BEFORE you make babies with cheating assholes! I mean, really? What’s the rush to bring children into the deliberate fiasco of your own trainwreck of a life? Seriously. I’m sorry, but even the term Babymama is just so gross to me. It’s just so trashy and just —- ewwwwwwwww.

    As for LW 2 — Go ahead and tell him your feelings. Why not? Again, it’s not like they are that serious, hell, you kids move in with one another today at the drop of a rent check. Live in girl friend once meant something, maybe. But now it means you’ve been together like four weeks or something… Don’t act on your feeling until he takes REAL action such as moving out on his own. But if you REALLY like this guy you owe it to you both to be honest about it and see what he feels about it. If the friendship ends… So be it. It’s so NOT healthy to secretly pine away for one of your best friends… Trust me, I know. Boy, do I know…

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest October 7, 2011, 4:26 pm

      Ha, you sound like my mom. What the phrase she always uses but I wont say right…Why buy the milk when the cow is free?

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  • sobriquet

    sobriquet October 7, 2011, 8:57 pm

    I’ve been there, LW2. Despite that he was in a LTR, my best guy friend used to give me tons of mixed signals. I had finally convinced myself that it was never going to happen between us whenever he put his arm around my waist while outside stargazing one night. (Stargazing! This is stuff we would do as friends!) I was confused by the intimacy of the cuddling, but extremely excited. Several weeks went by with little contact.

    The next time we saw each other, he came over to my apartment to watch LOST and drink whiskey. He ended up staying over for several hours and massive cuddling ensued. I was resting my head on his chest and felt his heart rate dramatically speed up whenever he picked my head up, pushed me down on the couch and kissed me. It was THE hottest kiss- years later it still gives me goosebumps. HOWEVER, he stopped abruptly and told me he was working things out with his ex and that he felt guilty. Then he left. I was in shock. It’s taken me years to finally accept that he was a huge asshole about the entire situation.

    Anyway, to make a long story even longer, things were awkward between us for awhile after that. The last time we discussed it was a little over 2 years ago. We started cuddling one night when he stopped and told me it probably wasn’t a good idea. We were both in the very early, non-official stages of dating new people. I finally told him that I was sick of the back and forth. I told him that I didn’t want to lose our friendship and we sort of mutually decided that nothing was going to happen. And that was that. We’re both still with the people we were newly dating back then.

    If you take anything away from my story, understand that making a move will absolutely, 100% change your friendship. My friend and I went from spending every weekend together to the way things are now: seeing each other every few months. I can’t tell you when or if you should make a move, but I CAN tell you that the timing has to be right if there is any chance of you having a relationship with him. You shouldn’t say anything while he has a girlfriend or even immediately once he becomes single, but if you want to continue subtly giving him signals, by all means GO FOR IT.

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  • avatar

    Calle October 8, 2011, 2:08 am

    LW2, just no. You don’t know the relationship between your friend and his gf unless he has been talking to you about his relationship problems. You sound petty and immature. I do think you should tell him because you don’t seem capable of getting over this crush but prepare for this friendship to end or change. The “signs” you talk of seem a bit silly and childish to me.

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