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“My Fiancé Won’t Introduce Me to His Female Friend He Sees Behind My Back”

My fiancé, “Scott,” and I have been together for four years. We’re in our mid-30s and we’re very honest with each other about our feelings. We communicate very well and hardly ever argue because we talk through everything. But we’ve reached a situation that I cannot find a
solution for. We’ll call her “Amber.” Amber and Scott have a several mutual friends from their childhood and youth group. Scott had strong feelings for her in high school, but unfortunately for him, they were unrequited. From what we’ve discussed, I gather that she was a girl who liked the attention and genuinely liked Scott as a friend, but nothing more. But she was the girl who broke his heart. I’ve always known that they’ve kept up with each other via email – not often, just occasionally. I know that he met up with her several years back, just to catch up. This was before we started dating. Two years ago, he mentioned meeting up with her for a drink after work. I would be out of town for work, and he seemed pretty relieved that I wouldn’t be able to join them. After some discussion (the crazy insecure girl inside of me came to the surface), he explained that he just wanted closure, that he wasn’t looking for a friend, just wanted to get some feelings resolved. Well, I had to understand that. I can’t keep somebody from trying to move on from hurt feelings.

Then six months ago, he casually mentioned that Amber’s marriage wasn’t doing well. I was pretty surprised by the conversation. I didn’t even know that they had been talking. It turns out that he had met up with her twice. He insists it was innocent. I’m not being stupid; I completely believe him. He apologized that he did not tell me, he honestly thought he’d mentioned her name. We often each meet our own friends on our own. He promised he’d always keep me in the loop going forward, but the kicker is that he told me that he did not want me to meet Amber. His reasoning is that she can be catty and mean and he thinks that she would say something to me that would hurt my feelings. And if she does that, then of course his friendship with her would be over.

So he has not sold Amber well. She is now getting a divorce, she’s having an affair with a wealthy married man and now apparently, she would be mean to me. I can’t understand this. Why would Scott want to be friends with this woman? He knows that I am hurting over this friendship and that I cannot understand it, and yet there is no resolution. I can’t get past these feelings that either he doesn’t
care how I feel or there is something more. And I cannot be the kind of woman that forbids her man from having a friend who is a girl. But the whole “not meeting” is a big kink. This is just too much for me. Am I being an idiot by being so trusting? Or is he just completely clueless? — Concerned Fiancée

First of all, let’s get something clear: you are not a “crazy, insecure girl” because you’re worried about your fiancé meeting up for “closure” with some chick whom he once had unrequited feelings for and being relieved that you’ll be out of town when he finally sees her. Second, it wasn’t “closure” if he’s still meeting up with her occasionally behind your back. Third, he didn’t forget to mention he was meeting up with her. He purposely didn’t tell you about the occasions when he saw her because he knew it would upset you. You two are engaged, which means you probably talk a lot (and if you don’t, you shouldn’t be engaged). I know how couples are. They discuss every detail of their days when they’re apart. They talk about whom they ate lunch with, what they watched on TV last night, what crazy thing their mom said in an email this morning. When you talk to someone every day, as most couples who are engaged to be married do, there’s very little day-to-day activity that goes unmentioned. Unless, of course, there’s an activity that one party wants to keep secret from the other.

You are not stupid. You have a bad feeling about Scott’s friendship with Amber and for good reason. It’s shady. He said he wanted closure and wasn’t looking for a “friend” and yet he has continued to see this woman he once had — and maybe still has? — unrequited feelings for. You are not wrong for feeling suspicious. And you would not be wrong for expressing your discomfort to Scott and telling him you have a real problem with him spending time alone with a woman he was had more than platonic feelings for and whom he can’t bring himself to introduce to you. You are not wrong in telling him you can’t understand why he’d WANT to be friends with someone he speaks so negatively about and that you have to wonder what it is that keeps him wanting more from her despite having supposedly gotten “closure.” You can tell him you have no problem with him having female friends — maybe even female friends he has crushed on or dated — but you do have a problem with him having female friends he sees behind your back, can’t bring himself to introduce to you, and has such unpleasant things to say about. (And for the record, I don’t believe the reason he wants to keep you apart is because he’s worried she’ll say something mean to you. I think it’s because he’s worried what you’ll think when you see them together. Maybe there’s chemistry there he doesn’t want you to witness. Maybe he’s concerned that because you know him so well, you’ll see how he acts when he’s with her and cut right through to his real feelings. I’d be worried, too, if I were him).

What you know about this woman is that she has no problem screwing a married man and that she likes attention from men who want her regardless of what her feelings for them are or what effect she has on them or their lives. What you know about her relationship with your fiancé is that it has, at one point (and perhaps still), included romantic feelings and that most of it — including the woman herself — has been kept secret from you. I’d say for those reasons alone you have very good cause to be concerned, and to feel disrespected. So tell Scott that. Let him know he’s treading on thin ice here and that his behavior is putting your relationship in jeopardy. Establish the kind of respect you hope to have in your marriage NOW. Let him know that his relationship with you should be the most important thing in the world and that it’s both of your jobs now to put your relationship FIRST, to take care of it and nurture it and not let outside influences, like a “friend” of one of yours who is apparently so unpleasant she can’t be introduced to the other, fuck it up.

Maybe you don’t feel comfortable dictating whom your fiancé can and cannot be friends with, but I hope you also don’t feel comfortable marrying someone until you feel 100% confident that he has the best interests of you and your relationship at heart, above everything else.

*If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com and be sure to follow me on Twitter.


Comments on this entry are closed.

avatar SweetPeaG May 4, 2012, 9:38 am

First of all, Wendy- loved your advice! I loved the fact that you made it a point to tell the LW that she is not crazy or stupid. I think all too often when people are suspicious about their significant other doing, well, suspicious things, they are made to feel like it is their issue. This is not your issue LW.

The other day, Wendy posted this link:
There was a particular quote in here that I wish the LW’s fiance would read and take to heart: “Leave your ex boyfriends and girlfriends alone. I’m sure you’re very trustworthy. Aren’t we all? The thing is, there’s absolutely no reason to test it. Your husband (or wife) and your marriage are more valuable than any friendship. Any friendship that troubles the marriage should be over immediately.”

I think if this guy is willing to make some changes (by stop hanging out with this woman!), than this relationship is salvageable. He might just not be admitting to himself that what he is doing is super shady. But, if he is unwilling to place his future marriage as his biggest priority by stop seeing this “friend”, well… he might not be the kind of man you want as a husband. Time to be 100% honest with your fiance, LW, and stop sugar-coating how much this situation is making you uncomfortable and hurt.

avatar Taylor May 4, 2012, 1:58 pm


avatar Ravage Maladie May 4, 2012, 2:36 pm

What a great article. What a GREAT website! Thanks for pointing that out to me!
DW is such a helpful community:).

Fabelle Fabelle May 4, 2012, 9:38 am

Wendy, this is PERFECT.

avatar lets_be_honest May 4, 2012, 9:42 am

Yikes, what Wendy said. I’m cool with my SO having female friends, even one that he used to date. But he’s gone out of his way to make me comfortable with it, by inviting me along every time they hang out, telling me when they talk (in small conversations about our day, like Wendy dicussed). What you are dealing with is far different from that. I would be extremely uncomfortable and would have a very hard time trusting this guy. Shady. You need to tell him this is not acceptable. If his friend would talk shit about you that’s not a friend he should have, guy or girl. And the closure thing? Laughable. I hope you deal with this stat.\

ps Scott & Amber? Anyone else thinking about that case?

Fabelle Fabelle May 4, 2012, 9:43 am

And LW– there’s no reason to let your desire to be cool with everything override the very reasonable distress you’re feeling. Your fiancè is being SHADY, and that’s not okay. It doesn’t matter if there’s nothing physical going on– he’s still deliberately NOT mentioning things & pushing boundries with a woman who “used to” have strong feelings for.

avatar Kristen May 4, 2012, 9:46 am

LW, this isn’t normal. There’s a big difference between being secure enough in your relationship to allow your fiance to have female friends and being okay with him meeting up with a girl he 1) used to have teenager-fueled romantic feelings for and 2) that he won’t let you meet. Please don’t believe him when he says he just forgot to mention that he had met up with her (more than once!). In reality, he just wanted to put his toe in the water without having to tell you about it. Even if he’s deeply committed to you, he’s probably having all kinds of “what if” thoughts since his relationship with her never came to fruition. By spending time with her, he gets to gauge how that future might have been. This isn’t cool. Not to mention, if he says she’s mean and wouldn’t get along well with you, why would he want to be friends with her himself? His first priority should be protecting his relationship with you. This girl shouldn’t even be a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of his impending marriage with you… but he’s letting her be. And you shouldn’t feel bad about questioning his behavior or calling him out on it.

avatar lets_be_honest May 4, 2012, 9:52 am

AND its more than coincidental that she’s back in the picture because she’s getting a divorce.

avatar Kristen May 4, 2012, 9:55 am

Agreed! Also, he “casually mentioned” it out of the blue. Yeah….

Will.i.am Will.i.am May 4, 2012, 11:59 am

” Not to mention, if he says she’s mean and wouldn’t get along well with you.” This statement is the truth right here. This statement is saying that he doesn’t WANT YOU TO MEET HER. That’s a profound statement for him to make, to HIS FIANCE! Guy has a little douchebaggery.

avatar caroline May 5, 2012, 11:31 am

I don’t think she would be mean to the LW but the fiancé would be mean to her actually. He just want to be alone with his female friend.

avatar Anna May 4, 2012, 12:50 pm

Yep, you hit it on the head there. I also think that the whole “being relieved my fiancee is out of town so I can meet up with this other chick” and making up excuses for why the LW can’t meet this other woman may be an indicator that Amber wasn’t even told the fiancee exists. What if he went to this meeting with her and told Amber he was single? Or just conveniently omitted his engagement from the conversation. That would make it pretty awkward to introduce them later. It sounds like he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

avatar bethany May 4, 2012, 9:47 am

LW- My husband has met up with his x-girlfriend several times over the years, and once right before we got married. He was with her for a long time, and he felt like he just needed to have one final conversation with her before taking that next step. And I was fine with it. I might give him shit about it jokingly, but really, it doesn’t bother me at all.
HOWEVER– If it really bothered me, he wouldn’t go. Or if I wated to come along, he would welcome me.
Your fiance is still thinking as a “me”. When you’re engaged/married, you need to think as a “we”. When you make decisions you have to think about how they’ll affect you both. It sounds like he’s not doing that, and that concerns me. You need to have a serious conversation with your fiance about his behavior. He’s been sneaky and he’s not making good decisions for you as a couple. I would not marry this guy until you guys resolve some of these issues!

bagge72 bagge72 May 4, 2012, 9:48 am

Umm, yeah I 100% agree with Wendy. Your boyfriend is acting extremely shady, and it’s fine that he has female friends, but if he has female friends that you aren’t allowed to meet or talk to then there is something very wrong with that! I can be certain when I tell you that the reason he is making her out to be such a bad person is so you wont think anything is going on with them, he knows you are insecure about her, and he thinks if he makes her look bad you wont think anything is going on between them, and you will let him just keep on hanging out with her. He probably thinks you feel more comfortable if he tells you she is bedding up with some other guy right now.
I can also tell you that even though he might not be physically cheating on you, he definitely is still crushing on her hard, and that’s not cool either, because he isn’t removing himself from that situation. Eventually he is probably going to do something with this girl so you need to tell him that you either get to hangout with them together, or he has to stop seeing her. If she is such a good friend of his she could find a way to be nice to you. It is just bad that he would rather lie, and hide things from you, just so he doesn’t have to stop being friends with a hot piece of ass who he is in love with who HATES you! Oh and he definitely didn’t forget to tell you he was hanging out with her, that just doesnt happen!

katie katie May 4, 2012, 9:55 am

good point that he isnt removing himself from the situation!!

having or getting a crush while in a commited relationship isnt a bad thing- it happens all the time. but i know, whenever it has happened to me, i will immediately go out of my way to not see that person because i value my relationship…. thats what you do.

avatar Flake May 4, 2012, 10:39 am

”I can be certain when I tell you that the reason he is making her out to be such a bad person is so you wont think anything is going on with them”

That is my thought exactly. That way, you don’t really want to meet her, because who would want to hang out with such a bitch? Because you would definitely have a problem with it if he told that you that she is just a ray of sunshine and a delight to spend time with, but no, you really shouldn’t meet her…

avatar ReginaRey May 4, 2012, 9:50 am

What struck me the most about your letter was this: “His reasoning is that she can be catty and mean and he thinks that she would say something to me that would hurt my feelings. And if she does that, then of course his friendship with her would be over.”

So, he doesn’t want you guys to meet because he’s pretty sure she’s going to say something catty and mean, and then he’d have to stop being friends with her? And clearly he can’t stop being friends with her, so therefore he can’t have you two meet.

Yeah, that’s pretty damn shady, LW. Your fiance having female friends is one thing. But having a female friend whom he once had feelings for, who he spends time with without “remembering to mention it” (yeah, BS), and who he refuses to introduce you to “for your own well-being” isn’t OK.

He doesn’t want you guys to meet because yes, she probably WOULD say something catty and mean, and then you’d force him to stop seeing her, which he doesn’t want to do (and exactly WHY is that?). But more than that, like Wendy said, he probably is afraid of what you’ll witness between him and her.

I’d spell out, in no uncertain terms, that your relationship is very likely in jeopardy if this continues. Tell him you’re uncomfortable. Tell him you want to meet her. And tell him that you’re REALLY concerned with why he wants to spend time with someone like this, alone, without mentioning it to you.

But I have to say, if it were me, I ‘d be pretty worried that my husband was so eager to keep some woman as his friend, that he’d omit things to me and refuse to introduce me to her. I’d be worried that he put OUR relationship in hot water, for the benefit of another woman.

IDreamofElectricSheep IDreamofElectricSheep May 4, 2012, 10:16 am

Also, in my experience, people often don’t want SOs and “friends” to meet when they are afraid that 1) they may trade notes or 2) the cover will be blown. As in, perhaps:

– The fiancé told the friend that he and the LW were “on a break”
– The fiancé told the friend that he and the LW were having relationship issues and he’s afraid that she may bring that up
– The fiancé told the friend that the LW is fat, ugly, boring or “crazy” (or all of these)
– The friend is NOT in a relationship with some other guy
– The friend believes that the fiancé is only staying with the LW because she is unemployed or sick
– The friend thinks that the fiancé is no longer with the LW, but is waiting to be with her until after the divorce is finalized

You get the point.

Fabelle Fabelle May 4, 2012, 10:22 am

This is a really good point– who knows what the fiancè is telling “Amber,” especially since she told him she’s having marriage problems. He could easily have worked in a “me too!”

avatar demoiselle May 4, 2012, 12:06 pm

This seems highly probable.

avatar AndreaMarie May 4, 2012, 10:35 am

Spot on!! Biggest red flag!! Not only does he so desperately want to hold on to a “friendship” with someone who would be rude to the woman he’s about to spend the rest of his life with. But he doesn’t want to settle your fears by having the 2 of you meet because then he wouldn’t be able to continue to be friends with Amber. What?!! What happened with the “closure”? If he can’t turn his friendship with Amber to a “Hey how have you been” email once a year, if he NEEDs to continue to meet up with her to talk about her divorce (huh??)…then there’s an issue.

avatar demoiselle May 4, 2012, 11:46 am

I’d be worried there isn’t a wealthy married lover, and the divorce isn’t so very coincidental.

avatar bostonpupgal May 4, 2012, 2:20 pm

LW, I am a little late to this party, but I really hope you read this. Several years ago I was engaged to a guy whom I truly, deeply, head over heels loved. He started a new job and made some friends there, one in particular we’ll call “jen”. He started doing exactly what your fiance is doing- casually mentioning her (when I didn’t even know they spoke that often), I’d find out after the fact that they had lunch or drinks together and that he’d never told me, but, despite his obvious desire to have her in his life, he would also saying negative things about her like “She’s so ugly, I’d never be interested in her”

Like you, I have no problem with friends of the opposite sex in relationships. Eventaully I nicely told my fiance I wanted to meet this girl. Like your fiance, he told me I shouldn’t, and refused to introduce us. The reason he gave me is that he should be able to have friends without me meeting them, and eventually called me out on being “crazy and controlling” for simply asking to set up lunch with her. I knew she knew about me, since his coworkers all knew about our upcoming wedding.

He was sleeping with her. That’s the reason he didn’t want me to meet her. He was cheating on me, and knew if I met her I might see that there was someting between them. Of course, I eventually found out about it, and left him immediately. Cancelling my wedding was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. It hurt for years, even though I knew it was the right decision. It was also the best, best decision I ever made. It taught me more about my strength and character than any other obstacle I’ve ever overcome. And it opened the door for me to meet my now-fiance. My relationship with him is everything I’ve ever hoped for, and our wedding later this year is going to be amazing.

I’m not saying that your fiance is cheating on you, just that you should be very, very careful considering how he’s acting. I’ve been there, and I know the pain this type of situation can cause, but I’ve also been on the other side of it. Don’t be afraid to call it off just because of a dress, or a cake, or because you don’t think you can be without him. Your gut is telling you something is wrong, believe it.

avatar Kristen May 4, 2012, 2:27 pm

Love your post! I hope the LW takes everything you said to heart.

avatar ReginaRey May 4, 2012, 2:38 pm

AMAZING. I hope the LW reads this.

avatar bostonpupgal May 4, 2012, 3:03 pm

Thanks guys :-) I just remember the torture of not knowing what the heck was going on between them, and knowing in my gut that something was very wrong. If the LW is feeling the same way, I just want her to know she can walk away from this if she needs to and go on to such better things. I couldn’t be mopped off the floor after I called off my wedding, I felt like I had failed and humiliated myself all at once, but I hadn’t. I went on to have great experiences, both as a single woman and with my almost-husband, and she will too

avatar bostonpupgal May 4, 2012, 3:04 pm

almost as in soon-to-be, not with the almost-husband who cheated on me. I left him in the dust, lol

Budj Budj May 4, 2012, 9:51 am

I know this sounds judgy, but let’s take the first half of Wendy’s third paragraph and then think about the boyfriend….and how pathetic you have to be to be entertaining never-dead romantic feelings for a girl like this in his mid-freakin 30’s ESPECIALLY one he has had prior history with….(zomg, but people change!!)

LW do what Wendy advises, but if I were you I’d probably just dump him…this situation doesn’t really reflect well for what he thinks of / how much he values your relationship.

avatar ReginaRey May 4, 2012, 10:03 am

Yeah, I agree. I tend to think you have to be somewhat dissatisfied with your current relationship in order to act on some old crush you had 15 years ago.

In fact, this reminds me of a certain friend I have on this very site, who is friends with an engaged dude. The dude is very clearly panicking about getting married, is really, really doubtful about it, and keeps reaching out to my friend to go out to dinner one-on-one. I think he wants out the relationship, but he doesn’t feel like he can break the engagement. So he keeps asking my friend to go out with him because he’s trying to cling to something “on dry land,” as it were.

I think that could very well be happening, here. And “Amber” is very likely encouraging the behavior.

avatar SweetPeaG May 4, 2012, 10:11 am

I think part of this guy’s inner reasoning (because he might not be fully owning up to it, even to himself), is that he wants the self-esteem boost. This chick rejected him back in the day and only wanted to be friends. His poor little ego still hurts from that (note the sarcasm). Now this woman is showing him attention and he is LOVING it. Maybe being that she is going through a divorce and maybe her own self-esteem is hurting from it, she is flirting, etc. because she knows her old friend Scott is always good for making her feel like a million bucks.

Yes, it is nice to feel wanted. I am sure it is nice to get attention from a beautiful woman. However, he has a woman who agreed to marry him waiting back at home. That’s pretty major, right? That should be the only self-esteem boost he needs.

The whole thing is very pathetic, in deed.

avatar AndreaMarie May 4, 2012, 10:30 am

I thought the same thing. She uses him for an attention boost because he has the upper hand, she doesnt have feelings for him, but she KNOWS he does, even if he’s getting married. She can always count on him to say “No Amber, don’t cry. It will be ok, you are so beautiful and talent and have had men chasing you forever. You’ll find a new husband”. Sad.

katie katie May 4, 2012, 9:51 am

i think this is one of those times where it just doesnt feel right… something is off. that isnt crazyness, LW, and you need to trust your gut!! there is a huge difference between being a controlling bitch and saying your fiance cant have any female friends and then being worried because your fiance is being super shady with a former crush… huge difference.

also, did anyone else catch that these “feelings” were had in high school and this man is now is his mid-thirties?!?! how is he not over this woman?

Budj Budj May 4, 2012, 9:53 am

I did :)

katie katie May 4, 2012, 9:55 am

i think we were typing at the same time… haha.

bagge72 bagge72 May 4, 2012, 9:59 am

I didn’t even think of that at first, but you two are both right, those feelings should have gone away now, and if they hadn’t I think he is much more likely to bang her, especially if they get drunk together, and the LW is out of town again. LW DON’T GO OUT OF TOWN!

ScrambledMegss ScrambledMegss May 4, 2012, 11:55 am

Yeah LW, if we need to advise you not to go out of town for fear that your fiance will have the chance to do shady things behind your back with this woman then you probably need to re-evaluate this relationship.

And I know the “LW DON’T GO OUT OF TOWN!” is in jest, but I bet she’s thinking the exact same thing even thought she hasn’t said so.

avatar AndreaMarie May 4, 2012, 10:28 am

That seems to be the bigger issue that needs to be address. Why is her fiancee so attached to this female? What is driving these “unresolved feelings”? Why would he need to meet up with her for “closure” when they hadn’t been in High School for over 10 years?

avatar tbrucemom May 4, 2012, 10:00 am

I’ve never agreed with Wendy on a letter as much as I do this one. Sometimes I’ve read letters and thought “really, this is what you’re upset about, get over it!” There is nothing indicated in this letter that makes me feel the LW is crazy or that her fiance is being misunderstood.

avatar SweetPeaG May 4, 2012, 10:06 am

I have to agree that Wendy was particularly awesome today with this advice.

avatar Samantha May 4, 2012, 12:16 pm

And can we note how compassionate her advice was while cutting straight to the truth, in light of this weeks outpouring of haterade?

avatar TECH May 4, 2012, 10:01 am

OK, this guy had a crush on this girl in high school, and in his thirties he decided to meet her to get over his unresolved feelings and gain “closure”? Get over it! It was fifteen years ago! It just seems really fishy to me. If my boyfriend told me he was going out for drinks with some girl he liked back in high school to get closure, I’d tell him to grow the F up and go see a therapist if he needs closure.
People who are about to get married socialize with the opposite sex, but usually in groups and not in clandestine one on one meetings.
He’s putting this woman above you and your relationship — bottom line.

avatar lets_be_honest May 4, 2012, 10:10 am

Yea 9 times out of 10, “closure” means at best, one last bang, at worst, well…

Leroy Leroy May 4, 2012, 12:55 pm

I’m betting that Amber is out of his league, and that he’s infatuated with her. If that’s the case, they’re probably not going to sleep with each other, unless she’s so malicious that she wants to screw up his relationship w/ the LW.

He really does need to grow up.

avatar Lindsay May 4, 2012, 10:19 am

A happily engaged person should not need closure over requited love from high school. I am not not even dating anyone, and I don’t feel the need to revisit anything with any guy from my payt, much less a crush. Everything Wendy said was right. I don’t see how you guys could possible move on to marriage while he’s secretly seeing Amber and keeping her away from you.

avatar cporoski May 4, 2012, 10:43 am

actually, I don’t necessarily agree with this. Sometimes you can be happy with 90% of your life but that 10% haunts you. Sometimes you need to wrap up those loose ends.

avatar lets_be_honest May 4, 2012, 11:03 am

If 10% of his life is consumed by a crush from highschool 15 years ago so much so that he needs “closure,” my advice would be MOA, this guy has serious issues and should not be in any relationship.

avatar cporoski May 4, 2012, 11:29 am

I agree about how much time is consumed. However, this is messy-er than just a crush. It sounds like this girl has strung him along for years. And now as an adult he knows better but he is still hanging on.

Also, I will say this. I had an ex who was everything I thought I wanted. He was the guy that matched the person I wanted to be. Not the person I am. He went to Princeton, traveled the world, was well read and well spoken. He could have been a senator and I would have been a senator’s wife. However, I thank God every day that I didn’t end up with that guy. I still think of the life I could have had from time to time, and I think alot of people have that road not taken thing.

The difference is that my road not taken is several countries away and his is still talking to him.

avatar lets_be_honest May 4, 2012, 12:50 pm

Would you be willing to mess up your current relationship because of this ex though? I think that’s the issue. I’m sure a lot of people have exes or people in their past that they will still think of, probably even e-mail to see how they’re doing/what they’re up to. That’s not to say they would risk their current relationship for those people.

avatar cporoski May 4, 2012, 12:53 pm

176% true. you are right on the money

avatar Taylor May 4, 2012, 10:21 am

LOVE Wendy’s advice! LW, listen to her!!
DW linked a terrific article last Friday – Fifteen ways to stay married fifteen years, by Lydia Netzer, and number 11 was

“Do not put yourself in trouble’s way.
…Any friendship that troubles the marriage should be over immediately. Protect it with knives and teeth, not because it’s fragile but because it’s precious. Don’t ass around with a “hall pass” or a “harmless flirtation.” Adultery isn’t an event, it’s a process with an event at the end. Don’t put your feet on a path that could lead someplace bad.”

Which is so friggin’ well said. I think if you’re hanging out regularly with a person who attracts you, and there’s a funny or off or heightened sense involved, then it’s just not a good idea, and it’s disrespectful to boot.

avatar SweetPeaG May 4, 2012, 10:32 am

I quoted the same article (see above).
Great minds think alike ;-)

avatar Taylor May 4, 2012, 1:28 pm

Awesome! I usually read the comments before posting, but the letter reminded me of the article so much I just had to spit it out =) TGIF!

avatar DMR May 6, 2012, 5:23 am

“Adultery isn’t an event, it’s a process with an event at the end.”

This! What an awesome quote. I will be borrowing it.

avatar AndreaMarie May 4, 2012, 10:24 am

Wendy was spot on, Im not sure what else I could add. You have every right to have a problem with this “friendship” and every right to confront him about your feelings. Closure means just that, closing off the relationship and your feelings. And he claims he no longer wants her as a friend yet he has been a shoulder to cry on for her while she’s going through her divorce? Its clear what Amber is getting from hanging out with your fiancee. She likes attention, she wants to feel wanted, she wants to feel the power of having the “upper hand” in her realtionships with men. Your fiancee probably still does have feelings for this woman (doesn’t mean he wants to act on them) but she does have a hold over him. She uses that. To meet up with him and throw a pity party about her life and get the self esteem boost from a guy she knows likes her. “No Amber, you are talented and smart and beautiful, you’ll be fine. You can have any guy you want”. See where this is going….

You need to talk to him. HE needs to get to the bottom of his feelings. Why is he continuing to see her? What is driving him to do this even though he knows it has a negative impact on your relationship? Why is he allowing himself to be manipulated by this woman? Why is he so desperately hanging on to a “friendship” with someone who he thinks would be rude to the woman he is going to make his wife??!!!

I repeat, you are NOT crazy and you are NOT being “that girl”.

landygirl landygirl May 4, 2012, 10:26 am

You’ve got to ask yourself why he is so attached to someone he was supposedly never romantically involved with. If you can’t leave your past behind you then you’ll never move forward.

Caris Caris May 4, 2012, 5:28 pm

I stole your last line and posted it on my facebook :D

avatar Elle May 4, 2012, 10:31 am

I think the fiance needs to grow a backbone. This other woman has known about his feelings for a long time, so she turns to him whenever she’s going through a hard time because she knows he won’t judge her, but support her, at least emotionally. I agree with the other posters and Wendy, you’re completely in the right here. You should meet her. So what if she says something mean? LW, you know it’s coming, you’re an adult, you can deal with it. This also speaks of her immaturity – why would she be mean to the fiancee of the guy she only has platonic feelings for?

I would understand if she was part of the group of friends, and you guys couldn’t avoid her. But for him to go meet her one-on-one behind your back and not mention it to you, that’s not ok. He shouldn’t be keeping friends like this. Apparently his taste in women is great (your letter, LW, is very mature); he needs to work on picking his friends a bit better.

FireStar FireStar May 4, 2012, 10:41 am

I totally understand why your boyfriend doesn’t want you to meet Amber. How incredibly awkward would it be for him to act inappropriately with her while you are sitting right there? And you know what tells you it is inappropriate? You can’t be part of it. Having a female friend is fine – but the rule is whatever you do with her or say to her should be things you can do and say if your fiancee was sitting there. If you aren’t allowed there – there is a reason. And it’s not the lame one he gave.
Where is your line in the sand LW? He can continue to have an inappropriate relationship with this women all the while knowing it hurts you? Is an emotional affair okay? Is sleeping with her okay? Because this is the path he is on. Everyone always comes down on ultimatums but personally I have no problem with them. Life is about choices and consequences. Draw your line in the sand or be prepared to share your fiance.

avatar cporoski May 4, 2012, 10:44 am

Wendy – I wish there was a thumbs up for your advice. This i have NOTHING to add to. Totally spot on. I wish I could just like it and let my opinion be known that way.

Will.i.am Will.i.am May 4, 2012, 10:53 am

Been there and done this, without the fiance title. I, too, was frustrated that an ex wouldn’t introduce me to any of her guy friends. To make a long story short, I was never comfortable with knowing she would get phonecalls all the time from her guy friends that I never met. I just wanted us to hang out as a group and not be the best of friends. They are her friends not mine, so I expected that some of us may not hem and haw together. It wasn’t that I didn’t trust her, I ultimately didn’t trust them. Especially when my ex mentioned that a couple of the guys had a thing for her in the past and not too distant past either.

Never give your finance an ultimatum, unless you know that he’s falling for her physically and/or emotionally. Otherwise, you set yourself up to be the “crazy woman.” Some relationships have friends that they don’t want their SO to meet, but I’m always under the assumption that if you don’t want me to meet this person; there must be an underlying issue that hasn’t been addressed.

Amber’s situation also sounds a bit drama filled. That can easily wear on your relationship if your fiance keeps in contact with her. You can voice how you feel about the communication that the two of them have, and if he doesn’t turn it down to a volume you are comfortable with, it’s on you to decide if you want to continue being in his life long-term.

Some friendships are toxic to couples, and it’s best to stay far away from those friendships.

avatar jlyfsh May 4, 2012, 11:04 am

To me giving an ultimatum in this case isn’t being a crazy woman. There should be no friends that your SO isn’t comfortable with you meeting, like you said I’m not taking become best friends, but if you don’t even want them to meet over dinner or drinks with you present there is a problem. And any reason you have for them not wanting to meet isn’t a good one. She’ll never trust him this way and he’s not doing much to help build that trust up in this scenario.

FireStar FireStar May 4, 2012, 11:14 am

It is not crazy to state very clearly that some behaviour is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Quite frankly I think it is a game some men run to call a girl crazy or insecure or needy when she is addressing a legitimate concern in her relationship. It is nothing but making a good offence the best defence and I wish girls would stop buying into all that crap. Your boyfriend is creepin around with another woman? It stops immediately… and if you want to thrown down an “or else” at the end of that – all the better. Some things should have “or else” at the end of the sentence.

Will.i.am Will.i.am May 4, 2012, 11:43 am

I’m wishy washy on ultimatums. I kinda feel once you are at that point, in a matter that is this important and this sensitive, your boat has already been taking on water for quite some time. I’ve never been much of an ultimatum guy, since the last time I used one. I used it with my last ex, and she obliged to my feelings about her guy friends, but there was a whole lot of resentment, and it was worse if I didn’t want to walk the line on any issue she had.

Looking back, that’s the issue I have with them personally. In my experience, it formed a lot of resentment and it put a lot of pressure on me. I’m sure before I die, I will have another ultimatum, but in the meantime, I rather go at the situation in a different way.

avatar savannah May 4, 2012, 12:03 pm

I think there’s a different between putting up a black and white ultimatum and letting someone know just how severe or serious consequences will go with ____ actions, esp. if they seem to think things are peachy.

avatar june May 4, 2012, 12:19 pm

Your ex resented you for your ultimatum because you guys shared different values and she felt more comfortable acting shady than respecting your feelings. That’s what ultimatums are good for–finding out whether your partner truly wants to be there for you, and moving on if they don’t. If they resent you for requesting something completely reasonable of them, that doesn’t make you “crazy,” it makes them not right for you. Try not to personalize the idea of an ultimatum with your one experience you had with your ex. It may be an ugly word with lots of baggage attached to the idea of it, but in reality, an ultimatum can help clarify one’s feelings and values and help a *good* relationship become stronger and more secure for all parties.

Will.i.am Will.i.am May 4, 2012, 8:27 pm

I can’t disagree with you on that one June. I think my area influences a lot of how I date, due to the outlook of dating is much more close minded. You kind of fit in this cookie cutter mold and there’s not a lot of diversity by any means. It’s as if we are 20 to 30 years behind. Interracial relationships are still somewhat frowned upon, so you can see a glimpse of why I’ve somewhat built my own mold of thoughts and ideas. I’m pretty open minded, but many people here are gluttons for punishment.

I’d agree that ultimatums are important. I just think an ultimatum at the level of this letter, you may ultimately already know your answer. If you’re thinking and this wound up about something, wouldn’t your heart tell your brain what’s up? Am I wrong for thinking like this, since I’m not totally sure?

FireStar FireStar May 4, 2012, 12:28 pm

I agree with you that an ultimatum by itself won’t solve anything and could lead to resentment. To me the first step to fixing whatever is underlying the bad behaviour is to stop the bad behaviour. If you can’t even do that – there really is nothing to salvage.

avatar savannah May 4, 2012, 12:19 pm

Also on the word crazy and women/men: You’re really correct about how some men use the word at women, and there has been a slew of articles about it in the last few years. This is my favorite article so far, I’m sure a lot of people have seen it already but it relates to this LW if shes got the ‘crazy women’ label going on in her head.