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17 year old serious anger issues.

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This topic contains 49 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by avatar Ruby Tuesday 1 hour ago.

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  • #735836 Reply
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    Kate
    Keymaster

    Locking a child outside of the house at night is a recipe for disaster. This kid is disturbed and out of control. She could absolutely hurt herself or create a noise disturbance or damage property, resulting in a phone call by neighbors to the police, which puts you at risk of being written up for neglect or worse. Worst case, she could run away and get hurt or killed, and parents are at fault for locking her out of the house. Time outs in one’s room work for young children and in some cases for teens. They are not gonna work for a kid like this, as you pointed out, Skyblossom, but putting a kid outside at night is not okay. Anyway, who judges “bitter cold?” How do you make sure the kid is dressed for the weather? How long do you leave her out there? It makes no sense and borders on abuse.

    #735839 Reply
    Skyblossom
    Skyblossom
    Participant

    I guess it depends on where you live. It is quite safe for a teen to be outside at night where I live. If you were in a city probably not. Teens are out by themselves at night all of the time here. They certainly aren’t supervised nonstop like a younger child. I think most people can judge whether it is too cold to be outside or outside in whatever she was wearing. Putting her outside is the opposite of treating her like an animal. Animals are tied outside and people put them in crates inside.

    This girl needs to have whatever situation she is in interrupted and she needs to be removed from it. She needs that disruption and removal to be immediate. If she can’t be removed to the outdoors then she needs to be removed to somewhere indoors but that allows her to keep screaming at the family. She needs to find that her screaming is ineffective. The mom could just call the police. Then she could be handcuffed and hauled away and locked up in a cage which is far closer to treating her like an animal. This could be a best option because it documents what is happening and could be the start of a court ordered psych evaluation. The step-cousin who was making Molotov cocktails was removed to an institution as a minor by court order. Sometimes that is the best route. If she is mentally ill she would benefit by being diagnosed and by then receiving appropriate medication. When she turns 18 she can decline it all.

    The step-cousin who was removed by court order was homeless on the streets of Washington D.C. as an adult and died in his 30s. Being an out-of-control, mentally ill, unmedicated adult in the United States has a poor outcome.

    I don’t know whether this girl is mentally ill or just out of control but her life course doesn’t look good at this point and she needs drastic change.

    #735845 Reply
    Skyblossom
    Skyblossom
    Participant

    Could your daughter be on the autism spectrum? Does over stimulation set her off?

    #735859 Reply
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    dinoceros
    Member

    Most people don’t keep their pets in a crate while they are inside or tie them up outside. People who tie their animals up outside often get reported for neglect, so I’m not sure it’s a great comparison.

    I think the teens in your area who are out are out there because they choose to be, not because their parents pushed them out the door, locked it, and refuse to let them back in. I’m sure it’ll turn out well explaining to the police why your kid is screaming to be let in in the middle of the night and you ignore them.

    #735860 Reply
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    Kate

    Yeah, Firestar, I’m usually with you, but locking your kids out of the house is not a thing. Unless that thing is child endangerment.

    #735862 Reply
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    ktfran
    Participant

    Agreed that there is a huge difference between a teenager being out and about at night with friends or what not and a teenager who is acting out and being forced/locked outside. You can’t really compare the two. You can’t really compare to animals either.

    #735863 Reply
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    JD

    Why are you giving her the option to behave so poorly. “She refused therapy”. She is 17. You drive her there, walk her in and wait. She doesn’t get to “decide” anything until she is 18. She can sit there and say nothing the whole time, whatever, but she goes.

    #735868 Reply
    Skyblossom
    Skyblossom
    Participant

    I don’t think most of you realize that there are parents who lock their kids out of their house every day while the parents are at work. The parents keep the kids locked out for hours. Middle school and high school get out at 2:30 and the kids are locked out until the first parent arrives at home. We see these kids daily. They show up at the library and the coffee shops. Even worse, some come from the elementary school that is next door to us. They get out at 3:30. They tend to be defiant and badly behaved which is why their parents keep them locked out of their own homes. The elementary kids are the worst because they think that if you aren’t their parent or teacher you can’t tell them what to do. If they are breaking our rules we explain the rule and tell them that if they do whatever it is again they will have to leave. Most of them do the thing again within a minute or two and then they are kicked out of the building. They are escorted to the door. If they refuse to leave the building or sneak back in then the police are called. The police will take them out of the building and give them a stern lecture and then kick them out of our building for months. The police will come back to tell us how many months the kid is kicked out and say to call them if the kid shows up any sooner than that. We kick them out for the rest of the day but the police kick them out for months. It doesn’t matter if it is pouring with rain or if it is cold with blowing snow. If you can’t behave you are out. The police back up discipline when necessary. The local coffee shops do the same. If this wasn’t done the kids would get wilder and wilder. The parents don’t get into trouble for this. Just once, I saw the police called for a child who was considered to young to kick out. I was scheduled to work in the evening and arrived a little before 5 pm. Within minutes a police office arrived. I asked why the police were in the building and told that a little girl, who appeared to be five or six, wouldn’t behave and since she was way to young to kick out the police were called. The officer was about 6’4″. The girl was standing and he went and sat on the floor in front of her and folded himself up to be as small as possible and had a long, gentle conversation with her. He then left and left her in our building. I don’t know if even in this case a parent was called or held accountable. We never know if parents are contacted. The one time that I assume there was a serious consequence was when it was closing time and there were small children in the building with no adult. The children said that their parents went to a baseball game. The manager stayed with the children, the police were called and the children were taken into protective custody. I didn’t see this happen, I only heard about it.

    I know that kids being locked out of their homes happens all over our county. It is a problem in every library in the county. I found that it is a problem all over our region when I attended regional meetings. It is a problem in the local city. The urban libraries have security. Parents do not get into trouble for locking their child out of their house. I assume that this happens all over the country.

    If the parent chose to discipline their child by putting them outside it isn’t child endangerment or child abandonment. The child is at home, on their parent’s property, being supervised by the parent. The police would back up the discipline. The police would rather have the parent discipline the child instead of having the parent dump the child unsupervised on the community forcing the community to provide the discipline. The police are willing to help back up discipline to get the attention of the child and to make the child see that there can be serious consequences to their actions. It is far better for the child to learn this sooner than later. It is very important that they learn this before they are an adult.

    In this case the child might be better off if the parent called the police in a quiet moment and discussed the problem and asked for advice. The police could tell them about programs that are available. The police could tell the parent which situations would warrant a call to the police.

    My first choice for the bathroom would still be to turn off the water and the electricity. If you live in a house you will have a line running from the water heater to a water line. The line from the water heater will have a shutoff valve. You turn it and turn off hot water to the house while still leaving the water heater running. This would still allow cold water to the house so toilets could be flushed and hands could be washed but a cold shower or bath would be miserable. Somewhere in the house there will be a circuit panel where you can flip the circuits for any electrical circuit in the house. You can selectively turn off the electricity to certain rooms. You do need to be careful that you don’t turn off the electricity to something like the refrigerator. Most teens have paid little to no attention to the circuit breakers and to the plumbing so they don’t know how or where to go to turn them back on. Some would and turning things off wouldn’t work. In the morning you flip the circuit breaker back on and turn the knob to have hot water throughout the house. If they lived in an apartment they wouldn’t have access to these things. If they are in a house they have easy access.

    #735872 Reply
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    MissD
    Participant

    I don’t think most of you realize that there are parents who lock their kids out of their house every day while the parents are at work. The parents keep the kids locked out for hours.

    This is nuts. Sorry, no offence, I’m sure it’s very true where you are. But I just absolutely cannot fathom this happening where I live. I don’t have children, but I worked directly with kids and mostly their parents for years. And this just…. would. not. happen. ever. Somebody would literally call child services or the police on you.

    #735874 Reply
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    Kate
    Keymaster

    Skyblossom, I’m reading about this online. It’s not normal. It’s terrible parenting, and it can get you in trouble. You’re obligated to provide kids with food, clothing, and shelter, and depriving them of those is fucked up.

    “Since no one can predict what given circumstances might arise on any given day, this is a risky proposition at best, and there are many ways this could come back to bite you. Here in FL, you’re not going to find a judge that will expect a teenager to sit outside in the heat or storms of summer waiting for you to get home, for example. When a troublesome teenager can’t get into the home to use the restroom, and decides to defiantly leave a bowel movement in the middle of the front yard – guess who is going to get the angry end of the bull when neighbors call police who in turn call child services? Hint: the child won’t get the worst of it. Or, for a more modest teenager, what do you think a prosecutor will do in a case where the child tosses things through a window to get in to use the bathroom because you’ve locked him out (assuming police would even take a report)? See where this is going?

    You have an obligation to provide necessities like food, shelter, etc. Ultimately if the child is deprived of one or more of these, for any period of time, yes, it’s possible that authorities could get interested and things could escalate from there. The law doesn’t set forth black and white guidelines of “acceptable” time periods or circumstances within which a child may reasonably be deprived of these things. That’s why “reasonable” is so important. If such a shutout seems unreasonable to a police officer responding to the situation, they can arrest first and let the DA decide if a case for neglect or endangerment should move forward later. If the case moves forward, ultimately people like judges and juries will get to determine what’s “reasonable” – but it’s always better to not risk pitting what might be reasonable to you against what’s reasonable to any of these others with ability to take action against you. So be keenly aware that a lockout strategy as a tactic to deal with your unruly teen, whom you are still legally accountable for, can set the stage for going from the frying pan into the proverbial fire.”

    #735875 Reply
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    Kate
    Keymaster
    #735876 Reply
    Skyblossom
    Skyblossom
    Participant

    Good parents don’t do this so you assume it doesn’t happen but it does. We call the police. The parents don’t get into trouble. It is not endangering a child to not allow them to be home alone. You probably worked with parents who take their kids to activities and who are involved in their kids lives. You didn’t work with the kids whose parents aren’t involved.

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