- October 9, 2017 at 8:13 pm #722860
What stood out to me was the word “force”:
“ A person commits an assault when
(a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly”
Not that this happened in Canada, but even if it had, I still don’t see how it’s sexusl assault. They were at a club, he grabbed her hand and started dancing with her, they danced for a while, and he then he spun her around and kissed her. Where’s the force?October 9, 2017 at 8:16 pm #722862
He also appears to have stopped kissing when she did, and asked for her number, not kept trying to be physical.October 9, 2017 at 8:19 pm #722863
The ‘ol grab and spin, known and feared throughout the land! /sarcasm
Bottom line this young woman wasn’t assaulted. She DOES need to learn to assert herself before she is assaulted. Only it won’t be an ‘ugly’ black guy it will probably be a good looking friend of a friend at a house party.October 9, 2017 at 8:27 pm #722864
@wendy, that’s the general assault section, sexual assault is if you commit acts of sexual nature without consent.
@kate, if you read the whole thing, you’ll see that what you listed are only examples of non-consent, and are not to be considered the only allowable cases of non-consent. The next part after the part you pasted in reads:
Subsection (2) not limiting
(3) Nothing in subsection (2) shall be construed as limiting the circumstances in which no consent is obtained.
Voluntary agreement is the key. And the criminal code DOES make unwanted kissing illegal. Just like in the US, the laws are more complex than simply what’s on the page. You have to consider the history and case-law. Here’s a detailed writeup in a legal magazine. If you don’t want to read the whole thing, just search on “kiss” in that article. http://www.lawnow.org/the-law-of-sexual-assault-in-canada/
There’s literally a brou-ha-ha going on in Canada *right now* over this, because some politician got away with kissing a woman on the lips after a work meeting. A lot of people are really pissed. Note that this actually went to court. It was a valid charge, and if he’d been found guilty of it he could have gone to jail:
http://nationalpost.com/news/is-an-unwanted-hug-and-kiss-sexual-assault-not-always-judge-rules-in-trial-of-ex-yukon-mlaOctober 9, 2017 at 9:00 pm #722865
Oh, wow. I think this is the first time I’ve ever felt relieved to live under US policy vs. Canadian policy. To think that a white woman could be grossed out that her first kiss was with a black man whom she found ugly and she could accuse him of sexual assault because he kissed her while dancing together at a club without asking her consent first is really alarming to me, for a variety of reasons.October 9, 2017 at 9:06 pm #722866
Well, the fact that a guy can just grab a woman at a club and stick his tongue down her throat against her will and have it be perfectly legal is extremely alarming to me. I’m actually shocked that kissing someone without their consent is legal there. And further shocked that the majority of people on here think that’s totally fine. I guess it’s just what you’re used to.October 9, 2017 at 9:18 pm #722867
He didn’t grab her and stick his tongue down her throat. You are literally creating a scenario in your head that did.not.happen. They were dancing and talking in a club, THEY made out, she freaked out because someone might tell daddy. Assault my ass.October 9, 2017 at 9:33 pm #722868
Really stretching for that version of events. From the words on the page, she didn’t want to kiss him and any point. She was ready to burst into tears when it was over. How is that consent?
And regardless, according to you guys there’s no point in even talking about consent because it doesn’t factor in anyway. From what you all are saying, it’s outright legal. Anyone can just put their mouth on you whenever they want, and there’s nothing you can do about it.October 9, 2017 at 9:39 pm #722869
Oh my god, he didn’t kiss her against her will! She literally says she kissed him willfully. Like, she uses the word ‘willing’: “I think I was so willing because of the fact that I never receive male attention.” She kissed him willingly!
And, yes, kissing without verbal consent IS what people in the states are used to. ESPECIALLY in a club. I can’t fathom in a club environment, people who are dancing with each other — grinding against each other (bc that’s how you dance at a club) asking, “Is it ok if I kiss you now?” every time they go in for a kiss. I can’t even imagine being on a second, third, fourth date and my date asking if he can kiss me. It happened maybe two times total when I was still single where a guy asked — on a first date — if he could kiss me and each time, it sounded foreign. It’s just not the way it’s done here.But it’s different in Canada? People ask for consent every time they go in for a kiss?October 9, 2017 at 9:44 pm #722870
Boo Berry Waffles
Cleopatra Jones summed up everything I was thinking about this whole mess perfectly.
We’re talking about a woman who neglects her own agency. You were going to stay sober…right up until your friends wanted to do shots. You didn’t want to make out with a stranger in a club…right up until he did and it was only because you have shit self esteem? And even then your grievance isn’t so much that you were kissing a stranger…it was that you were kissing a stranger of a race your family wouldn’t approve of.
Others have already pointed out how ugly your family values currently are so I won’t rehash that, but the excellent news about excercising your agency is you can totally start with reversing your attitude towards people of color.October 9, 2017 at 9:51 pm #722871
No, anyone can’t just “put their mouth on you whenever they want,”in the states and it’s ok. As we’ve covered, if there’s force involved, that’s sexual assault and that’s crime. And if one person is, like, passed out or otherwise unable to say no, it’s sexual assault. If, however, two people are on a picnic date and one person leans over and kisses another and doesn’t first say, “Is it ok if I kiss you now?”, it’s not assault if there wasn’t force, if the other person doesn’t say “stop” or indicate that the kiss is unwanted. And if two people are dancing together in a club “for a while,” and one person spins the other and goes in for a kiss and the other person doesn’t back away or say no or hold up her hand or turn around or dodge the kiss, but insteads stands there and participates, willingly participates — that’s not sexual assault either.October 9, 2017 at 9:53 pm #722872
Consent doesn’t have to be verbal. Nowhere did I say that. But it does have to exist, unlike in the US apparently.