This topic contains 525 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Miss MJ 1 day, 3 hours ago.
- June 8, 2017 at 6:52 am #689739
I think racism was absolutely at play. Trump and his entourage are white supremacists and nationalists. Come on. They gave Americans permission to stand up and express their racist beliefs and hate. You’re seeing it now. Plenty of Americans eagerly got on board with that after feeling shushed and PC’d for years. This is backlash.
There’s also this obsession with taking away women’s reproductive rights that is ALL about keeping women in their place, controlled by men. That absolutely cannot be excused by the argument that, oh, they’re devout Christians. And let’s admit that this obsession with HRC being evil, corrupt, a bad candidate, well, a lot of that is just sexism. They couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a woman, so they made their reluctance about her being so *bad.* To Meadowphoenix’s point about Brogressives – they were so loathe to vote for Hillary that they’d forfeit electing a democrat at all and just stay home or write in some guy’s name who wasn’t even on the ballot. Sure, ok, she’s corporate. She’s establishment. Yes. But you’re really ok with Trump winning? You can’t vote for HRC when she’s the only thing standing in the way of him being your president? Then you’re sexist and stupid.June 8, 2017 at 8:40 am #689744
Yes, that’s the Trump base. They are very racist and they are also sexist and Islamophobes and homophobes. Yes, they have been ‘liberated’ by Trump to say out loud and in public all the nasty thoughts which they previously felt compelled to stifle. Yes, they are much more in-your-face obnoxious than they were prior to Trump. They are feeling their oats. Despite Trump not receiving even a plurality of the vote they feel like they are the no-longer-silent true majority. But, and an extremely big but… the Trump base isn’t big enough to produce a winner. It took a lot of other votes beyond these racists.
Edsall has a good account in today’s NYT:
On the Bernie Bros: yes it’s kind of despicable, but it’s not new. There have always been a lot of ideologues of both parties who felt it more important to win control of their party than to win the current general election. They always felt theirs was the only true and popular enough to win message and that losing today, but gaining control of the party meant tons of future victories. In my early political days (McCarthy/McGovern) Ds went through this to a much larger extent than today. The Rs went through it with Goldwater.
HRC is partly responsible for the bros. When she lost to O in 2008, she exacted a huge price to agree to work to get her stalwart supporters to back O. In 2016, exactly what did she do for Bernie or his supporters to get them to line up behind her? Almost exactly nothing — I think she assumed ‘I’m running against Trump, what other choice do they have?’ Many didn’t like that and were really angered by the not-at-all-surprising DNC e-mails. Admittedly, it was not as easy to find a way to court Bernie and his supporters — HRC wanted bennies for herself, Bernie and the bros wanted policy change from HRC.June 8, 2017 at 8:45 am #689746
I don’t think it’s just his base, Ron. Plenty of others who voted for him or *didnt vote for Hillary* are, truly, kind of racist. Maybe they’re not the ones leaving nooses around, but they’re racist. I saw it in New England growing up, rampant racism. Maybe it didn’t express itself in hate crimes, but it was there in attitude.June 8, 2017 at 8:46 am #689747
And no, Hillary is not responsible for the ingrained sexism that kept Berner Bros from voting for her. She could have kissed their asses all year and they still would find reasons not to vote for her.
She’s not responsible for their irresponsible idiocy either, in deciding to throw away their votes and risk Trump being elected.
June 8, 2017 at 11:32 am #689777
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Kate.
Anyone watching Comey’s testimony?June 8, 2017 at 11:55 am #689782
I have been too busy — three mile run, HUGE job interview today… two of them!! — but MY-OH-MY! He certainly came in with his guns blazing, didn’t he?! Damn. Pretty scathing…June 8, 2017 at 12:00 pm #689783
PS — Hillary did NOTHING to appeal to the Bernie supporters. Nothing. Sanders did all he fucking could to rally them behind her, but she didn’t exactly open her arms to greet them. She assumed they would have to vote for her. She assumed white women liked her. She pretty much just assumed she’d win… She sure assumed A LOT of things, didn’t she?June 8, 2017 at 12:11 pm #689784
Bittergaymark, hope your interviews went well!
I was able to watch some of Comey’s testimony. Am I the only one to thinks Trump might’ve fired the only honest guy in Washington?June 8, 2017 at 12:46 pm #689787
Eh… I’d think more highly of Comey had he treated Trump with the same amount of disdain he clearly had for HRC. Though, hey, I get it… that oh-so-fucked-up not-so-secret meeting on the Phoenix tarmac STUNK to high heaven. And said “chance encounter” had the same exact “loyalty” stench to it as well. I said it then — and now I am proved right… THAT cost HRC the election. That was the straw that brought everything crashing down.June 8, 2017 at 12:48 pm #689788
Thanks, Bondgirl! They take place later today…June 8, 2017 at 12:49 pm #689789
There are other honest civil servants and politicians in Washington. I agree Comey is honest. I also see him as a tad priggish and subject to fits of bad judgment. I want to like him more, but get the impression that his greatest interest is CYA and his second greatest interest is covering the collective asses of the FBI as an institution. He showed bad judgment twice wrt HRC investigation, and then the Russia investigation during the campaign, as in if you knew this was happening in real time, why did you just let it keep happening unimpeded. Yes, you want the best on-going investigation and convictions, but you don’t sacrifice a fair election for president to achieve that, especially when the Russians in question are beyond your ability to indict. He leaked his notes! Could have given them to the Congressional investigators and the Asst. A.G. He manned up and admitted leaking, but that is a bit much, since he was certainly going to testify publicly and could get his story out. He seems like a male version of a church lady with the added CYA dimension. I find the “Oh LOrdy” to be off-putting in Congressional testimony of a former FBI head.June 9, 2017 at 8:34 am #689861
I mean, yeah, she DID assume incorrectly. She bought into the whole “liberals/the left are smarter than conservatives,” thing we like to peddle. BIG mistake. HUGE. (It’d be one thing if her platform wasn’t at all comparable to Sanders, and she still expected a lot of support. But there were a lot of ways in which it was better, like specifically mentioning support for women and the disabled in healthcare, and I find expecting politicians to woo you with more than their platform is something we actually need to change in the way people view responsibility for their votes). She should have been incredibly manipulative in a way Sanders supporters would have ate up, while they pretended to be really cynical about the political process. Lord knows, Sanders used understandable outrage to pretend he’d done more in the Senate than he’d done, or was hindered by the DNC more than he was, or understood anything about the policies he was talking about. He understood that optics mattered more than substance.
I think she also thought Bill Clinton would do more harm than good in the rust belt, and frankly, she should know that most of those women fucking love his lyin cheating power-abusing ass. She should have let him charm all the white women, like he is wont.
I don’t feel sorry for Comey, he got what he deserved frankly. If you can’t recognize fake Russian intelligence, before you go spouting off about the golden ticket, or that there is not a politician in the intelligence committee who wouldn’t politicize anything you told them, or that a wing of your agency has been infiltrated by the right-wing, or that this specific president can’t be trusted to button his own shirt, or that you’d clearly HAD become a little bit of a fame-whore your former boss would be disappointed in, what the fuck are you doing?
Good luck on those interviews, BGM!