Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

Your Turn: “He Doesn’t Want to Take My Virginity”

In a feature I call “Your Turn,” in which you, the readers, get to answer the question, I’m presenting the following letter without commentary from me:

I’ve been friends with this guy for six years now, and we’ve had quite the tumultuous relationship. In the first two years of our friendship, he was very persistent in pursuing me. So much so that I felt like I was being stalked! Hahha! At the time I was not over another guy and I told him I didn’t want to pursue anything with him. Gradually, as we started talking more, I started to really like him. He wanted to get intimate with me, but I kept pushing him away because I was a virgin and reluctant for him to be my first. He has always been that guy who has lots of short-term girlfriends and casual sex, so I guess there was a huge contrast between me and those girls he usually meets and sleeps with. We continued to flirt excessively, but he said I was too much of a “tease” because I wasn’t ready to sleep with him.

Six years later after meeting and becoming friends, I would really like to have sex with him. He told me he would really like to as well, but he doesn’t want to take my virginity. He said he doesn’t feel that it’s right and he would hold too much responsibility. I was kind of taken aback as this came from a sex-crazed type of overly-confident guy. I was giving him permission to have sex with me and he was declining, which is odd from someone who nearly begged me to sleep with him over and over. Now, he refuses to ever hang out anymore because he says the “temptation” is too much to handle.

My question is: Do you think he genuinely cares about me? Or do you think that he doesn’t want to have sex with me because I’m inexperienced? Or perhaps he feels I will become too attached? Even though he says he doesn’t want to pursue me, he always shows signs that he really likes me. — Confused Virgin

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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com.

155 comments… add one
  • avatar

    GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 9:05 am

    “Even though he says he doesn’t want to pursue me, he always shows signs that he really likes me.”

    Have you never seen He’s Just Not That Into You, LW? If a guy says he doesn’t want to date you…he doesn’t want to date you!!

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  • avatar

    Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 9:07 am

    LW, he doesn’t want to sleep with you because he knows it will be a big deal. Virginity becomes a bigger and bigger deal the older you get. He doesn’t want that pressure and there won’t be a lot that will change his mind. MOA.

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    • avatar

      Morgan August 14, 2013, 10:58 am

      I agree that he thinks its too much of a big deal, but I disagree that it becomes a bigger and bigger deal the older you get. This is purely anecdotal based on my experiences in my friend groups, btw.

      When you’re 16, you have this idea that it has to be with the right guy who loves you (usually whoever your long term high school boyfriend is). By the time you’re in college or older though, it’s less waiting for the right guy and more frustration that you’ve managed to hold on to it this long. Most of my friends, myself included, who lost their virginity in college did not do so with a boyfriend, but with a regular but casual partner.

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 11:04 am

        See, there was this speaker that I saw who said that virginity is like a backpack that gets heavier and heavier because you have held on to it for so long. So think past college, do you know any 30 year old virgins? 40 year old? There are a lot of expectations and figuring you might as well wait until marriage. there is also anxiety as well. The difference between 17 and 19 isn’t that big in my eyes but the difference between 17 and 30 is huge! that is twice a lifetime! It also becomes this huge responsibility to anyone who takes it. I didn’t mind taking a virginity when I was 16 but would really have reservations doing it at 35.

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      • avatar

        Morgan August 14, 2013, 11:12 am

        The only people who are virgins older than say, 25, that I know are waiting for religious/moral reasons. Again, based solely on personal experience.

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 12:05 pm

        So there is the religion thing (guilt) or being shy or some other complex. It gets built up to be a bigger and bigger thing that way. I had a friend who promised her dying grandmother that she would stay a virgin until marriage. she felt so guilty that she didn’t until she was 30 and unmarried. who puts that guilt on a 14 year old girl?

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      • avatar

        GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 12:14 pm

        To offer up another reasons- my college roommate didn’t have sex until 24ish (I don’t remember her exact age) because she had not met a guy she wanted to have sex with. She wasn’t waiting on anything, isn’t religious, wasn’t anxious/scared…she just plain old hadn’t found a person she wanted to have sex with. (She ended up having sex for the first time with a random neighbor because he was hot.)

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      • avatar

        SpyGlassez August 22, 2013, 5:37 pm

        I had sex at 32 for the first time. Three months before my wedding, with the guy I’d been with for 3 years. I wasn’t interested in sex in college, not for moral reasons but just not interested. I would have had sex sooner with my fiance but actually HE was the one who wanted to wait…and he was NOT a virgin when we got together. We did a lot of “everything but” and that was good for us.

        Also, we’re fat. So the mechanics weren’t easy. It was mostly the fat.

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      • avatar

        SasLinna August 14, 2013, 11:31 am

        I really think that depends on how the ‘virginity-losing’ person views it. It’s completely subjective. I’m not seeing the huge responsibility of having sex with a 35-year-old virgin.

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      • avatar

        SasLinna August 14, 2013, 11:32 am

        And there definitely are older virgins, some of them asexuals, some of them just shy people. Not just religious people.

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 11:57 am

        But someone who is shy a lot of times has anxiety around it. It isn’t just “I can’t make the first move.” The anxiety can be a bigger and bigger in your head.

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 11:52 am

        It might be. But if someone told me they were a virgin at 35 then it is a big enough deal for me to stay away. That is the thing about the LW. I feel like she has said to him, “Please take my virginity.” and that weighs heavier than saying, “Let’s get busy.”

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 12:22 pm

        i agree- and this is where the problem is. the focus is on the virginity specifically, not on general sex.

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      • avatar

        GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 12:01 pm

        Where did you see that speaker/what was the point of the speech?

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 2:13 pm

        It was at the University of Maryland. I was a Greek advisor there. It was about general sexuality, being safe, making good decisions. The speaker spoke about how the longer you wait and it seems like everyone is getting it on, it weighs on you and there is more pressure about sex. It gets built up in your head. It has stuck with me for years.

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      • courtney89

        CR August 14, 2013, 11:20 am

        YES. YES.
        100% agree with Morgan.
        The older you are, the less of a big deal it becomes IMO. I was 22. I was just ready to lose it. And I did with a good friends friend who was visiting for the weekend. Do I regret it? Nah.

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      • courtney89

        CR August 14, 2013, 11:23 am

        FTR, I also didn’t tell him that it was my first time either. In hindsight, I probably should have but whatever.

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 12:38 pm

        Like I said, I think it is more of a bell curve. Like big deal in high school, less of a big deal in early 20s then bigger and bigger deal after 25.

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      • Lindsay

        Lindsay August 14, 2013, 3:51 pm

        I disagree also. My friends mostly had sex in their teens, so they were all “I LOVE YOU. YOU WERE MY FIRST.” And by the time I had it in my 20s, I was like, eh, whatever. I think that the possible embarrassment increases with age because people act like you’re an old spinster as an older virgin, but you’re not going to suddenly get more attached to someone because you’re older.

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      • avatar

        Bunnycsp August 14, 2013, 4:39 pm

        I am not saying that you will get more attached. I am saying that it becomes a bigger deal in your head. And I was speaking to mid twenties and beyond. So I see no difference between losing it between the ages of 16-22. I feel like most people fall in that range. But the people that are 25-35 is a much bigger deal in your own psyche.

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      • Lindsay

        Lindsay August 14, 2013, 4:45 pm

        Ah, I guess I’m not sure how it being a bigger deal in someone’s head is going to affect the person they’re having sex with, so I assumed that’s what you meant. Would they feel pressure to be really good at it or something?

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  • avatar

    TECH August 14, 2013, 9:07 am

    This is purely speculation, but he probably doesn’t want to sleep with you because he knows he cannot give you everything you need and deserve. Because he has a lot of casual sex and short term relationships, he probably figures he can’t be the steady person in your life that you are probably looking for. I actually think it is rather kind of him.
    It’s doubtful that your lack of experience is the reason why he doesn’t want to sleep with you. Given the fact that he pursued you so strongly in the past, he is obviously attracted to you. Plus, virgins can start having great sex even after a couple times. It’s all about the sexual chemistry the two people have, rather than their levels of experience, that matters.

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    • avatar

      Apple Pancakes August 15, 2013, 2:31 pm

      I completely agree with TECH …he doesn’t want to take your virginity because he knows it’s a big deal (whether you think it is now or not, he knows it will be a big deal), and he knows himself well enough to know that he can’t give you what you need. That doesn’t change the fact that he’s still attracted to you!

      Ironically, it is pretty kind and intelligent of him to be so self-aware and to tell you. He probably cares for you as a friend, and therefore doesn’t want to see you get hurt, especially by him …because he’s pretty sure he’ll hurt you. So, if you do go for it, don’t be surprised if you’re writing to Wendy again in a few months asking “why he won’t commit” or why you’re stuck in an “on again off again” relationship with a dude that you’re falling hard for. This is one of those situations where he’s telling you who he is at the beginning, and you need to listen to him, or you will get hurt.

      The fact that he wants to avoid you completely is sad, but again, it’s who he is. He is aware enough to know that he can’t deal with the temptation to give into the physical attraction, in spite of the negative consequences. He doesn’t want to put himself in a situation that is full of potential regret. He’s just being honest. Be smart with the information he has just given you.

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  • avatar

    cdobbs August 14, 2013, 9:12 am

    its one thing to not want to sleep with you, but the part that gets me is that he doesn’t want to even hang out with you anymore….that is a huge red flag….i think he just isn’t in to you and you should probably move on and try to meet someone else

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    • avatar

      Sally August 14, 2013, 8:16 pm

      I agree. I think he was into you when he couldn’t have you, but now that he can, the fire is out. Can’t hang out with you anymore because the temptation is too great? Yeah, right. He doesn’t want to hang out with you because he is no longer interested in you but he thought he had to explain himself so he made up this nonsensical excuse.

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  • Fabelle

    Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:12 am

    It sounds like this guy just likes the back & forth, flirty-but-not-really-going-anywhere THANG you’ve got going on with him, LW. Also, emphasis on the ~back & forth~ (which is why maybe he’s not eager to “take your virginity”? He doesn’t want you to regret it or anything? Some people feel that deflowering someone is a big responsibility…)

    So, continue enjoying the flirty-ness (if you want), but don’t rely on this guy to give you your first sexual experience. (Although, for some reason, I see them getting drunk together one night, & him doing this whole act of “giving in to the temptation”)

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    • katie

      katie August 14, 2013, 9:15 am

      yea the “temptation” part of it was especially icky. like, that reminds me of older men who go for young women (jail bait or whatever), and talk about the temptation of it all and “giving in” and all that bullshit.

      icky.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:19 am

        Oh gross. THOSE guys…

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  • katie

    katie August 14, 2013, 9:13 am

    well, this is an unfortunate symptom of the whole virginity myth, where virginity is put up on a pedestal and held up as the ultimate state of being for women. he doesnt want to take your virginity, probably, because of a combination of the things he has told you, and that you suspect. all of those things play into the whole shitty perception of virgins and what virginity means.

    that of course isnt to say that being a virgin is wrong or bad, but the way we treat it in our world is what is wrong and bad.

    if i were you, i would run away from this guy as fast as you can. no matter what you feelings are, and no matter what you *assume* his feelings are, the way he is treating your state of sexuality at the current moment is very, very problematic. just for that reason i would not want anything to do with this guy. cut the 6 year weird, childish, on again off again ties with this guy, and find someone who will genuinely like you and want to be with you for YOU, and that doesnt determine those things based on your state of sexual being. he is seeing you as virgin first, person second, and that is so repulsive i cant stand it.

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    • avatar

      kerrycontrary August 14, 2013, 9:17 am

      Ugh, so I have this one guy friend that I dated when we were teenagers and we fooled around. Well when we were in college and finally had sex, he was like “I wish I had been the one to take your virginity”. Ew, gross, why??? Why are men so obsessed with being the first person inside of us? It doesn’t really matter.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:18 am

        Ewww

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:19 am

        Okay so this is fucked up, but I actually lied to my first boyfriend (the guy who “took my virginity”) & said he wasn’t the first. Because in my mind, I didn’t want to give him that power or something?? (I did drunkenly confess, YEARS later, that it had been him, but yeah. Ooops)

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:21 am

        Haha, I did that too, Fabelle! I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone that before though. I lied because I didn’t want him to worry about me getting attached since I knew I wouldn’t. I just wanted to throw away my “V-card” as fast as possible.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:24 am

        Ahh, too funny! I thought I was the only one who’s lied about having slept with MORE people (only woman, I guess, since you always hear that men skew up, & women skew down…to speak in generalizations, haha)

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      • avatar

        kerrycontrary August 14, 2013, 9:27 am

        I was going to ask you both “but wouldn’t they know you were virgins?” but then i remember my cherry got popped before I had intercourse as well. PS that hurt and there was so much blood! I mean not so much, but there was blood.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:28 am

        Yeah that happened for me from a different activity.

        Also, I lost my virginity in the lobby of an airport. This is another deleted thread, right?

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      • avatar

        TECH August 14, 2013, 9:32 am

        Haha, I think we need to hear that story!

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:33 am

        I concur (it’s tooootally a deleted thread… ;))

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:35 am

        I mean that’s really all there is to it. The guy had a part time job fueling up the airplanes, and I met him there either during or after his work (can’t remember), and we had sex in the lobby while his boss was in the back of the building. What were we thinking?!

        Okay, now someone else has to tell a story. I can’t be the only one sharing this kind of information on a Wednesday morning.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:45 am

        hahaha that’s awesome.

        Hmm well, like GG, I have had sex at a playground (on it, really) & my first boyfriend & I used to go to the mall & sneak into dressing rooms? The best place I’ve had sex though was in a restaurant bathroom with my ex. It was a single stall with full-length doors, so, perfect (& it was a nice restaurant, so the cleanliness was good)

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      • avatar

        GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 9:33 am

        What the heck?

        I lost mine on an elementary school playground.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:36 am

        Go GatorGirl!!! Let’s hope school wasn’t in session at the time. haha

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      • avatar

        GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 9:39 am

        It’s actually not that juicy of a story. I was a junior in high school, went to boarding school, and my BF of a year and I where making out on the lower school playground late one Friday night and it just happened. So no, school was not in session, I did bleed all over the dang place and have to walk through the main school hallway with it on my pants. That sucked.

        We had a lot of sex on the back steps to the school church too.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 9:52 am

        I’ll be bringing extra disinfectant wipes to the park from now on…
        haha 🙂

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      • avatar

        AliceInDairyland August 15, 2013, 11:41 am

        the backyard of a monastery is where I lost mine!!

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      • avatar

        kerrycontrary August 14, 2013, 9:38 am

        College dorm room. really not exciting.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:50 am

        Yeah, if we’re telling virginity stories, mine is not that exciting either.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 9:54 am

        I don’t even remember mine! I mean, I remember where I was and who with, but that’s it.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:32 am

        I always thought mine had been “popped” before (I was a horseback rider in my adolescence…) but I did bleed a little bit. It was something I noticed after, though, nothing that would’ve been obvious during the sex part.

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      • avatar

        applescruffs August 14, 2013, 10:32 am

        In my bedroom at my parents’ house…the day my grandfather died. I think he probably would have been proud of me!

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      • avatar

        Jessibel5 August 14, 2013, 10:18 am

        Haha, you’re not alone, I did that too. I didn’t want to give him the satisfaction, I guess. I wanted it to be no big deal, and he would have made it into a big deal if he knew. He was so tiny though, I don’t think he noticed.

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      • avatar

        Jessibel5 August 14, 2013, 10:24 am

        Also, conversely, it happened to me. My boyfriend my freshman year of college, who was a senior in college, was very hesitant to have sex for the first few months of our relationship, wanted to take it slow and get to know each other, because the other three times he had had sex it changed the relationships. Then when we finally did have sex, he told me afterwards that he was really a virgin. He was a lapsed Mormon and boy did I cry when I found out. I was terrified that I had tainted him somehow and he would resent me for that.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 12:36 pm

        This happened to my friend, sort of (minus the lapsed Mormon part, oh boy) She was dating this guy for a month, maybe? & they got a shore house one weekend with a bunch of friends. One morning, she woke him up & brought him into the shower with her. Later, he tells her that was his first time having sex… ever.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 10:38 am

        ah, i did the exact opposite and made it into a huge deal. and then after we broke up i spent like 2 years refusing to move on because he was the only person i had slept with, and i could never sleep with anyone else (that makes you a terrible slut of course), and we were going to get married because we had sex, so it was just that line of thinking that kept me in a terrible spot for so long.

        i wish i had lied! lol

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 10:57 am

        its pretty funny to picture you like that and not like the katie you are now!

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 11:48 am

        yea it took a good amount of… time? thoughts? internet reading? lots of stuff…

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      • avatar

        Grilledcheesecalliope August 14, 2013, 10:45 am

        Me too, I still dislike that guy so I’m glad I didn’t tell him.

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      • avatar

        Morgan August 14, 2013, 11:00 am

        I lied to the guy who took my virginity too. Because it wasn’t a big huge deal to me, and I didn’t want it to become some big huge thing. And like theattack, I mostly just wanted to be done with it at that point.

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    • avatar

      SasLinna August 14, 2013, 9:40 am

      yeah, both of them are really buying into the idea that virginity is super important, and have some strongly gendered ideas how the woman “tempts” the man with her sexiness and is a “tease”, but he tries to “resist” her lure because he doesn’t want to taint her “purity”, blablabla, but ultimately he “begs her” for it and she “gives him permission” . it reads like a scene from twilight. maybe the guy got tired of that narrative? or is it all just extended foreplay to him until he finally “deflowers” her?

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      • avatar

        artsygirl August 14, 2013, 9:57 am

        I originally read it as ‘purity bubble’

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      • avatar

        Morgan August 14, 2013, 11:03 am

        Wait, its like verbatim a scene from twilight, now that you mention it.

        And now I’m being judged.

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        SasLinna August 14, 2013, 11:35 am

        are you for real? I swear I haven’t read it, but there was such an internet buzz over it.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 9:47 am

      Not disagreeing with you, but don’t you think SHE played a big role in hyping the virginity thing too?

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:53 am

        yeah, I think it’s something like SasLinna said above— they’re BOTH buying into the narrative, possibly her moreso than him, even.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 9:55 am

        Ah, yea, seeing that now.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 10:03 am

        absolutely. i was actually going to add something about that, but then i got distracted.

        absolutely. and LW, drop that, and drop it quick. it is not healthy.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 10:08 am

        I’m so flip-floppy sometimes. What’s the bid deal if she thinks its a big deal though? I mean, it is to some people. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Now, branding it and selling it like she seems to have done, I don’t agree with, but its her body, her virginity, why shouldn’t she treat it however she pleases?

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      • Kate B.

        Kate B. August 14, 2013, 10:30 am

        Yeah. Mine was a big deal. I wish I could’ve done it differently. I would’ve picked a different guy. I was terrified and he was not supportive of that at all.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 10:32 am

        eh, well, i mean some people think a lot of things that ultimately arent healthy though. and i think its pretty known that isnt a healthy way to go about life, that is repeated all over the world with all the issues women face with virginity.

        sure, she can think whatever she wants, but that doesnt mean its going to be good.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 10:37 am

        I don’t know, Katie… I think deciding when you’re ready to have sex and making very careful decisions about that is a GOOD thing. Sex IS a big deal. It’s a wonderful thing, and virginity shouldn’t have such a big label to it, but it’s still a really big deal to make the decision to start having sex. I don’t like the weird branding it (as LBH called it), but I’m glad she’s taking control of her own sexual decisions and that she waited until she felt ready.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 10:55 am

        well, making good decisions about sex is NOT only for virgins, though. making good decisions about sex, when, where and who to have it with, ect, is a part of being a healthy sexual being, for as long as you choose to have sex, or not have sex, if you find out you are asexual/grey sexual.

        what i am talking about is the unhealthy attitudes relating to virginity specifically, not being healthy about having sex.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 10:59 am

        Agreed on your first paragraph. I’m just saying that we can’t ignore that “virgins” (I hate that word) have more things to consider in how to make those healthy decisions. Sex is a big deal, especially for the first time, and it should be treated as such, but it shouldn’t define anyone.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 11:15 am

        well honestly, i wouldnt give a virgin any more or different advice then i would give someone who wasnt a virgin. *maybe* let them know it will hurt and they will bleed (being a woman), but even that happens post-first sex. (it happens to me, anyway… so i would hope thats pretty normal lol)

        honestly, i mean, make good decisions, make thoughtful decisions, own the decisions you make, and have fun. that encompasses everything, right? i would say that to anyone, virgin or not. i think its unfortunate that virgins DO think its such a big deal, i think that contributes to all the issues. if it was just looked at as just as big of a deal as sex is at any other moment in their life, i think it would be a lot healthier.

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      • courtney89

        CR August 14, 2013, 11:27 am

        Did everyone’s first time hurt?
        Mine didn’t AT ALL.
        I also didn’t bleed at all.

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        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 11:28 am

        I feel like the first time for anything is going to be a big deal though. First kiss, first car, first day of school…

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        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 11:29 am

        And with all of those firsts, I’d give the same advice whether its your first or 100th. I mean, imagine jumping out of a plane the first time, its gonna be a BIG deal. Once you’ve done it a few times, its not.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 11:33 am

        That’s very true, and really I agree with you on most of this. But I think that like many things, sex is harder when you first start just because it’s new. You suddenly have to worry about diseases, and you have to juggle contraception for the first time. You might be more emotional about sex than you will be later. You might be self conscious and nervous about measuring up or worrying about if you’re doing it right. Plus sex can really change a young relationship, especially when one or both people are inexperienced, so there’s anxiety there too. Anyway, I’m just arguing a minute point here because I’m really bored. haha

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 11:35 am

        It’s kind of like driving a car. You would give the same advice to anyone, but a newer driver is more overwhelmed by it all than someone who already drives just because it’s new.

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        GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 11:39 am

        LBH & theattack, you guys are so smart. I never would have thought of those analogies. I totally agree with you two.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 11:41 am

        Thanks, GG! 🙂 I hadn’t seen LBH’s comment when I posted mine, so I guess we’re on the same wave-length today.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 11:45 am

        i dont disagree with any of that, but the “newness” of something doesnt negate all of the “sameness” about it. like, sure, jumping out of a plane is more of whatever the first time- but all the same concerns are there whether it is the first or 100th time you do it. you are still going to check your parachute, you are still going to chart wind speeds and directions or whatever guidelines about it there are. just because you might feel different things or be more emotional about it also doesnt negate the “sameness” that it will hold throughout a person’s life. so just because it is your 100th jump out of a plane doesnt mean that it means less.

        also, this is the path that is started on that eventually ends at people who have already had sex are worthless, shouldnt care about who they are doing it with because “its already done”, they are already “tainted”, ect.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 11:53 am

        I don’t think that’s where the path leads. Having the first time be important to you doesn’t mean that every other time won’t be.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 11:56 am

        I really don’t think that’s where this path leads either, Katie. It certainly can, but that happens more if you make virginity into an important label than if you make sex into a big decision.

        And although there is all of that sameness, the emotions and the anxiety are real, which makes it stand apart in a very real way.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 12:26 pm

        eh, im just saying… this is kind of a kind way of saying that virginity is super important.

        there are still women who are killed for their sexual state of being, right now, in our world. remember that. i think that raises the stakes, somewhat, at least in my opinion. its easy for us with our privilege to talk about who how and when we have sex to say that your first time is important, but there are people (women) in this world who would be killed for saying the same things because of the ideals that “virginity is important” lead to.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 12:32 pm

        Our Americanized thoughts on virginity don’t have an impact on what you are talking about though. I feel like they are entirely separate things. And, none of us were talking about virginity on a global scale.

        Anyway, I don’t think the first time being a little bit of a bigger deal = virginity itself is super important.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 12:36 pm

        well yes, that is precisely what you are saying. your first time being more important, more special then any other time in your life naturally leads you to believe that your state of sexual being before sex is important and needs more weight and is more important then your sexual state of being after sex. and even if you dont explicitly say that, that is certainly implied and is a conclusion people will come to on their own.

        and i do think its important to remember those issues. we dont live in a vacuum and the things we say and think and teach our children matter a lot.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 12:39 pm

        @Katie, I think you’re making some pretty huge jumps here. Neither of us have even suggested that virginity is important or that a person’s sexual status is important. Just that it’s okay for an individual person to view their first time as a big deal and to be a little cautious/anxious/more thoughtful about it. I see what you’re saying about larger cultural aspects, but there are some other steps in between the way one teenager views her first time and global sexual oppression and violence. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other. There is a moderate ground.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 12:40 pm

        No, you are adding those things. Your first time may very well not be the best, most important or most special. It simply will be a slightly bigger deal because its the first time. Just like with any first time. My first day of school was a bigger deal than other days of school, but it definitely wasn’t the most important or most special day of school ever.

        also, I’m definitely not saying what goes on elsewhere in the world isn’t very important, of course it is.

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      • avatar

        GatorGirl August 14, 2013, 12:46 pm

        Y’all should just stop engaging, what you’re saying is being taken completely out of context and skewed. It’s not worth your breath.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 12:57 pm

        and also- TA- “the emotions and the anxiety are real, which makes it stand apart in a very real way.”

        so people who are not virgins dont experience emotions and anxiety related to having sex? is that wrong or bad if they do? are they not allowed to because they have been through their “emotional, anxious” sex already?

        you see what i mean?

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 1:03 pm

        No, obviously not, Katie. No one is allowed to feel anything about sex unless they’re virgins.

        Virgins are just more likely to naturally have emotions about the first time they have sex than say, someone who’s been having sex for 10+ years and gets it on the regular. This isn’t about shoulds or shouldn’ts or hard and fast rules. It’s just an observation of something that’s quite natural and not at all unhealthy.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 1:24 pm

        ok, well this is the exact disconnect that i cant reconcile.

        if ANY sex can be emotional, bonding, form a commitment, anxiety- inducing, fun, not fun, hurtful, not hurtful, literally painful, not painful, with the right person, with not the right person, ect, ect, ect- if both virgin sex and any other sex can all be those things at varying points in your life and for different reasons, why the emphasis on your first time?

        i just cant reconcile that. its not logical to me. i mean is it just for nostalgias sake? why the emphasis? i dont get that.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 1:27 pm

        I don’t know that I can explain it any further than I have, to be honest. I do see a distinction, and thought I explained it. Maybe someone else has a better way of explaining it?

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 1:30 pm

        Yeah I’m at a loss too, LBH. Feelings don’t have to have justifications, and logic can’t cancel out feelings, especially about something in our personal lives. People just feel what they feel, and this feeling is a pretty common one. It’s just a fact that we have to accept and move on because it’s no big deal anyway.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 1:32 pm

        Ok, I’ll try one more thing-yes, while ANY sex can be all those things, they can also be none of those things. But, the first time is almost a 100% guarantee to be some of those things…especially the anxious one. The feelings I felt my first time were very different than the feelings I feel now. I think the only times that come close to that first time feeling are your first time with a new person.

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      • avatar

        SasLinna August 14, 2013, 10:49 am

        the problem to me isn’t whether she sees it as big deal, but that she has such a strange narrative built around it.

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    • CatsMeow

      CatsMeow August 14, 2013, 10:13 am

      YES, this is what I was going to say. The whole concept of virginity and the narrative surrounding it is so fucked up. It’s just sex. Have it or don’t.

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    • Lindsay

      Lindsay August 14, 2013, 4:19 pm

      I generally agree. I think even talking about “virginity” is silly because having had sex or not shouldn’t give you an entire label. But I can see why someone would care. For a person whose been having sex for a long time, I think it’s reasonable that they might not be interested in experiencing another person’s learning curve. Some people just want to jump in and try to have good sex, not worry about whether they have to teach someone.

      It’s like when some of my gay friends have specified that they don’t want to date someone whose just recently come out because they want someone who is more established in their identity.

      And I say this as someone who started having sex fairly late. Obviously, a guy who really cares about her wouldn’t mind helping her learn about what makes for good sex, but this guy doesn’t really seem like he’s interested in a relationship anyway.

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  • avatar

    kerrycontrary August 14, 2013, 9:15 am

    I think he may have been so into you before because he knew you were unavailable. Now that you’re available? He can’t enjoy the chase. I think he doesn’t want to sleep with you because losing your virginity should be a positive experience. You two aren’t dating, so it’s kind of…odd to want to lose your virginity to someone who is just a friend that you used to flirt with. This guy doesn’t want to date you and he doesn’t want to sleep with you (because if he did, you would be dating), I would just consider him a friend and go on dates with other guys right now.

    In terms of losing your virginity, it doesn’t have to be this HUGE life altering experience. Movies make it out to be a way bigger deal than it is. You won’t really feel different before or after. And you’ll probably go “huh, that’s it?” That being said, you want to lose it to someone you like and who respects you. It sounds like you have too much drama with this guy for it to end positively in the long-term.

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    • avatar

      lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 9:56 am

      I felt like my first french kiss was a way bigger deal, haha. I remember my mom picking me up after it happened and thinking she would see it all over my face, like somehow I looked different.

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      • avatar

        lets_be_honest August 14, 2013, 11:00 am

        Oh, update on that story-a few days later my best friend told me he paid his neighbor $5 to french kiss me. So technically, in a way, my first french kiss was the result of hiring a prostitute. haha.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 11:12 am

        that is amazing. haha

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  • avatar

    Nadine August 14, 2013, 9:15 am

    He sounds really confusing and who cares what his motivations are? Back away, find someone else to sleep with.
    We women sometimes get so obsessed with finding out ‘the reasons’ when really there are no reasons, he’s just behaving how he wants, and you need to behave how you want.

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    • avatar

      kerrycontrary August 14, 2013, 9:24 am

      I agree the LW should care about his motivations. Like why do you need to figure out why he doesn’t want to have sex with you? Who cares, he just doesn’t. People should spend their time on energy on other people who have made it clear that they also value them. This guy just sounds really dramatic and weird.

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      • avatar

        kerrycontrary August 14, 2013, 9:25 am

        *shouldn’t

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:27 am

        I agree generally, but this LW sounds really young, and she’s getting rejected the very first time she’s trying to have sex. That’s pretty rough. I can see why she would want to think through it all.

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      • avatar

        Nadine August 14, 2013, 9:57 am

        I understand, but it can be so exhausting, you know?

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  • Copa

    Copa August 14, 2013, 9:17 am

    LW, I have no answer to your questions because I can’t tell you what’s going on inside his head. What I can tell you, though, is that the reasons don’t matter; he doesn’t want that kind of relationship with you anymore, so MOA.

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  • theattack

    theattack August 14, 2013, 9:18 am

    First of all, stalking is not “hahaha” funny. That comment made me so mad I had difficulty reading the rest of your letter.

    Second, he doesn’t want to take your virginity because he’s worried that you’ll develop feelings for him. That’s not necessarily true for you, but it is true for many, many people. Let me say this again: He does not want to date you, and he feels so adamantly about that that he is willing to turn down sex he’s wanted for years. Either way he’s said his piece about it. Now you just have to accept it and move on. It’s probably best if you stop associating with him for now to soften the blow a little.

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    • Copa

      Copa August 14, 2013, 9:21 am

      The “stalker hahaha” comment really stuck out to me, too.

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    • Fabelle

      Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:21 am

      Oh yeah, I forgot to call her out on that. I raised my eyebrow so hard.

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    • avatar

      rachel August 14, 2013, 10:33 am

      Yeah, that was bizarre.

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  • avatar

    artsygirl August 14, 2013, 9:29 am

    LW – I think your situation screams romantic comedy script in a really unhealthy way – because lets face it, life is most definitely not like the movies. The facts are that he is a friend, who has a history of not being boyfriend material, that has stated clearly that he does not want to sleep with you. Maybe he is protecting you, maybe he doesn’t want to responsibility of taking your virginity, maybe he does not see you in a sexual light anymore, etc. No matter what – he has turned you down. The only healthy option is for you to take him at his word and go out and find someone who actually wants to be with you.

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  • avatar

    Turtledove August 14, 2013, 9:33 am

    He doesn’t want to date you. If he wanted to date you or have any kind of relationship beyond a flirty, bantering friendship, it would have happened years ago when you were ready for a relationship. Don’t stay hung up on this guy, go out and flirt with other guys.

    And don’t date anyone who finds you being a virgin who is ready to have sex for the first time to be a super big deal. I think many people will want to wait a little longer in the relationship before having sex with you so that the trust is there, but it is not a huge deal and anyone who treats it as such is kind of suspect in my book.

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  • bittergaymark

    Bittergaymark August 14, 2013, 9:38 am

    Everyone is ragging on him for being confusing, but hello! For two years she constantly pushed him away — over and over. Now, suddenly, SIX years later when she herself has made her virginity a much bigger deal simply by so clinging onto it — now she wants him to take it from her at long last? Yikes… No wonder he’s heading for the hills now at full speed.

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    • dabbler

      dabbler August 14, 2013, 9:49 am

      I wonder how old they are? Maybe that puts the 6 years into perspective.

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 9:57 am

        Yeah, I was imagining that this started when she was like 13, and now she’s ready to have sex at 19. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to start out saying no and then eventually change your mind at those ages.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle August 14, 2013, 10:00 am

        Hmm, that’s true.

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      • bittergaymark

        Bittergaymark August 14, 2013, 10:07 am

        Perfectly reasonable of him to change his mind, too. Look, I have unwittingly had my share of virgins and it was NEVER worth all the drama… And these were MEN I was dealing with! Hah. I can only imagine how much more clingy women can get… 😉

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 10:11 am

        Of course, it’s definitely reasonable for him to change his mind too. I don’t think he changed his mind just because she changed hers though. I think it’s a maturity issue because they’re presumably both so young. Six years is a very long time when you’re a teenager.

        And yeah, I had sex with a virgin once and vowed to never do it again. There really is no benefit to it but there is a whole lot of hassle. That’s probably a good reason why virgins need to “lose it” in a relationship with someone who already likes them.

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      • Lindsay

        Lindsay August 15, 2013, 12:12 am

        Yeah, there are plenty of people that I was interested in six years ago whom I wouldn’t be interested in anymore. And their gap in sexual experience has likely increased exponentially.

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      • katie

        katie August 14, 2013, 10:35 am

        dang i was imaging young, but not that young!

        your probably right though…

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      • avatar

        artsygirl August 14, 2013, 11:45 am

        I was hoping it was more like 15 so now they are early 20s mainly because I really still thought boys had cooties into freshman year of high school.

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    • Fabelle

      Fabelle August 14, 2013, 9:57 am

      Yeah, I agree. She built this up so much by at first refusing, then suddenly wanting to get it over with (it seems) that I’m not surprised he’s… wary.

      But it’s okay, LW. There will be others.

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  • dabbler

    dabbler August 14, 2013, 9:39 am

    …so he wants you to go out and just sleep with some random guy so that he won’t be the first?
    That right there tells you he doesn’t “genuinely care” or want to date you. If he wanted to be with you, he wouldn’t be telling you to go sleep around.

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  • avatar

    Jessibel5 August 14, 2013, 10:21 am

    This letter kind of makes my head hurt. I would just wash my hands of the whole thing, stop hanging out with him (which shouldn’t be that hard because he’s already avoiding you) and start hanging out with other people. Maybe you’ll meet a guy who just wants to be with you and doesn’t care about all that crap.

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  • avatar

    cdobbs August 14, 2013, 10:24 am

    when i was a teenager most of my friends at the time had lost their virginity, so i decided one day i would too….i knew this guy who had a crush on me so the next time he asked me out i said yes….i figured it would hurt so i drank half a bottle of vodka before the poor guy picked me up….i told him instead of going out we should go to this secluded spot in this park….then i seduced him….the amazing thing was he actually asked me out again after that night….i don’t think he had any idea i was even a virgin

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  • avatar

    Bossy Italian Wife August 14, 2013, 10:28 am

    He wants to have sex with you, but he doesn’t want to be your boyfriend, therefore he doesn’t want to take your virginity. MOA and find someone who isn’t just interested in the sex.

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    • avatar

      rachel August 14, 2013, 10:34 am

      This is how I read it too.

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  • avatar

    Painted_lady August 14, 2013, 10:58 am

    Wow. This guy quit hanging out with you because the temptation is too great?! Maybe you can offer to wear a veil and long sleeves and have a male relative chaperone since it’s all your fault if he decides to have sex with you. And obviously, if you don’t have sex with every man you show interest in, you’re a terrible, terrible tease.

    I don’t mean to let you off the hook, LW. Because you’re buying into all of this shit that this guy must really, really like you when actually, he just feels like you’re too much trouble since you didn’t “pay up” years ago. It doesn’t matter why you didn’t want to have sex, and it’s not a problem that he did want to – honestly, I’m really glad I didn’t lose my virginity till grad school simply because I met some really shitty guys and didn’t have the self-respect to know that they were shitty – but the problem comes in that a) he gave you shit for not having sex with him (if he was just interested in a hookup, fine, but you don’t get to call people names) and b) that he’s either lying about why he wants to avoid you or making his desire to have sex with you your fault, and then c) that you’re naive enough to believe all of this is secret code for I REALLY WANT YOU.

    Don’t continue to pursue people who reject you, whether it’s years later or not, and believe people when they say they don’t want to be around you. Also, quit thinking about sex and virginity as this crazy, monumental thing that determines whether guys will want you or not.
    There is no code. The guys who like you for the right reasons will still like you after you have sex with them, and within reason, there won’t be a deadline by which that has to happen. The guys who don’t actually like you won’t be swayed by whether you have sex with them or not. And if you can’t tell the difference between those guys, as long as you know that, go have sex with the people you want to have sex with. It sort of sucks to realize how little control you have, but there’s also a freedom in knowing that doing what you want won’t completely screw it up.

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    • bittergaymark

      Bittergaymark August 14, 2013, 11:14 am

      What? Calling somebody a “tease” is now some big terrible sin? Gee, I must have missed that memo. Come on, both men and women can be teases and accurately labeling somebody as such is no big crime…

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      • theattack

        theattack August 14, 2013, 11:27 am

        No, it’s not. The problem though is that (young) guys use that SO often to try to guilt-trip a girl into having sex. I think it’s important for inexperienced girls to have reminders that being called a tease doesn’t really mean anything, and she’s allowed to make the calls as she wants regardless of what anyone thinks of her.

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      • bittergaymark

        Bittergaymark August 14, 2013, 11:38 am

        He couldn’t have been pressuring her THAT hard if she spent over six years saying, “no.” 😉

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      • avatar

        Painted_lady August 14, 2013, 4:02 pm

        It’s not a terrible sin, but it’s shitty behavior. Things don’t have to be terrible and awful and traumatic for it to still be shitty behavior. And absolutely, women need to stop giving men’s words so much power, because I got called a tease when I had no intention of having sex with someone I was flirting with, and based on context and the situation, it was humiliating, and someone finally had to tell me, “Just because you were called a tease doesn’t mean you were *being* a tease.” So yeah, telling someone, “That’s bullshit; don’t listen,” doesn’t mean the guy’s a monster, but that he’s being a bit of a dick.

        I may not be traumatized by you standing on my foot, but I’m still going to ask you to knock it off.

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      • Lindsay

        Lindsay August 14, 2013, 4:47 pm

        The problem I find with calling someone a tease is the implication that flirting or simply being a young, attractive woman automatically means you’re going to be willing to have sex. And thus, if you in fact are not, despite the flirting and being attractive, then you’re a “tease.” Instead of the idea that flirting is no promise of anything to come afterward.

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      • avatar

        painted_lady August 14, 2013, 5:05 pm

        Yeah, it’s not that the insult is so awful, but that you can get it for just being attractive and being in the same room. Just…your wishful thinking=not my problem.

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  • avatar

    Sophronisba August 14, 2013, 11:12 am

    This is messed up. You are well shut of each other.

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  • Lyra

    Lyra August 14, 2013, 11:16 am

    LW, from one virgin to another, don’t waste any more time with this guy. He does NOT care about you and this will just cause unnecessary drama in your life.

    There are PLENTY of guys who would want to be with you for you and not just because you are a virgin. That is the type of guy that you want to be with. I want you to think long and hard about WHY you want this guy to take your virginity. Do you really want to be with a man who really doesn’t care about you?

    I’m waiting until marriage for personal reasons and I’ve been honest with every guy I’ve dated about it. If a guy is TOO willing to relieve me of my virginity, I run for the hills. The guys I’ve spent a decent amount of time with in relationships have all respected my decision and haven’t pushed me otherwise.

    Let go of all this drama and don’t waste any more time with this guy. If you truly are looking to lose your virginity, find a decent guy who respects you and who won’t put any pressure on you — NOT one who “stalks” you for two years. Gross.

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  • avatar

    sarolabelle August 14, 2013, 11:25 am

    I would say just leave him alone and have sex with someone that actually cares about you so much that they take you out to dinner sometime.

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  • avatar

    bethany August 14, 2013, 11:41 am

    He doesn’t like you. He doesn’t want to do it because he’s afraid you’re going to get attached and make it into a bigger deal than it needs to be.

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    • avatar

      mclovin August 15, 2013, 2:47 am

      Unfortunately for her, you are absolutely telling it like it is. The fall out would be much more involved for him then the actual deed is worth in his mind.

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  • avatar

    j2 August 14, 2013, 11:47 am

    My read is that the guy believes you will equate sex with commitment.

    He wants the sex, all right, just not the commitment.

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  • landygirl

    landygirl August 14, 2013, 12:02 pm

    LW, this guy sounds like a loser, just move on. You don’t really want him, he’s just convenient and safe.

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  • lemongrass

    Lemongrass August 14, 2013, 12:34 pm

    Run, fast. Look for a guy that you want and wants you equally.

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  • avatar

    Lucy August 14, 2013, 1:17 pm

    LW: You propositioned him; he said no. What difference would it make if you knew why? Are you hoping you can change his mind? Do you really want to be arguing this manwhore into sleeping with you, virgin or no?

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  • avatar

    SGMcG August 14, 2013, 3:44 pm

    After 6 years of flirting with each other, he might have just resigned himself to thinking that the two of you are friends – to the point that he thinks of you like a sister. You could be throwing yourself at him naked beggin him to sleep with you. Yet once you’re placed into that box of “not going to sleep with them” don’t even bother getting out of it just so you can lose your virginity.

    Find someone better and MOA already.

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  • Lindsay

    Lindsay August 14, 2013, 3:54 pm

    There’s no way of knowing what this guy is thinking, but you should go find someone who doesn’t care that you’re a virgin. Don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole. (Is that a pun?)

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  • avatar

    melancholia August 14, 2013, 4:14 pm

    My question is: Do you think he genuinely cares about me?: NO.

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  • fast eddie

    fast eddie August 14, 2013, 6:55 pm

    Setting all the other stuff aside for a moment, one thing you don’t have to worry about is being satisfying to him (no matter who “him” is) your first time. The only thing you can realistically hope for is that it’s special for both of you.

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  • avatar

    Lark August 14, 2013, 9:36 pm

    MOA. Seriously. Either lose it to a boyfriend, OR if you honestly have no expectations then make it clear to a guy that you are comfortable with and he very well may understand. This guy isn’t the understanding guy or the potential boyfriend. I have a feeling he is a player who enjoys the chase, but then was freaked out when faced with the fact that you may give in to his advances. He has this set idea in his head that you will become clingy. Many guys are like that, no matter what you tell them, so you have to be aware of it. Some guys will understand and take you at your word if you say that is not the case. (I have a friend who was late with her experiences due to religious reasons, and two guys who pursued her hard broke it off because they were afraid she would become clingy—and one guy didn’t and understood her reasoning).

    There is a big potential field of sexual partners out there, and this guy isn’t one of them.

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  • avatar

    Shandra August 14, 2013, 10:35 pm

    “Even though he says he doesn’t want to pursue me, he always shows signs that he really likes me.”

    Guys who really want to date you want to pursue you, at least enough that you don’t feel like you are begging them to sleep with you despite your virginity (or any other status.)

    Best advice I never got about sex: Not a no, “okay,” or “sure, why not?” are not reasons to proceed with sex. The only answer to “want to have sexy fun times together?” that should green-light it is a very clear “Why yes, please.”

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    • Lindsay

      Lindsay August 15, 2013, 12:10 am

      Definitely! You know, I started thinking about this, and virgin or not, it’s not OK for her to think that someone *should* want to have sex with her 1) because they previously wanted to, 2) simply because she offered or 3) because they have previously had casual sex with other people. The dude has a right to change his mind and to decline sex for any reason at all that he sees fit.

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  • avatar

    Trixy Minx August 14, 2013, 11:47 pm

    Kinda sounds like he’s doing the opposite if what you did to him. No? I hope it isn’t some game to him.

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  • avatar

    AndreaMarie August 15, 2013, 12:07 pm

    He cares enough about you as a friend not to have sex with you. He knows the loosing your virginity may be a big deal to you and since, in his mind, the sex with you is just going to be a fun/no strings attached deal, not a relationship building experience, he’s not going to put you through it.

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  • avatar

    BreezyAM August 17, 2013, 5:22 pm

    Honey, don’t try to talk a man into fucking you. There are plenty of men out there who want to fuck you. Don’t degrade yourself by laying out the case for why he should bang you.

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