Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

Your Turn: “I Don’t Trust His Female Friend”

In a feature I call “Your Turn,” in which you, the readers, get to answer the question, I’m presenting the following letter without commentary from me:

My boyfriend and I are preparing to be long-distance while we complete our master’s degrees and then move in together again once we are done. He’s wonderful, we have a great relationship, and we’re planning on spending the rest of our lives together. I do have one small, but persistent concern. He’ll be attending school in the same city as one of his female friends, P.

Throughout our five-year relationship, P has been around to make negative comments about me and act a little emotionally unhinged around my boyfriend — fishing for compliments, needing attention, inviting him to things and getting sulky when he can’t attend. (Apparently, he had a small crush on her before he met me). P has also alienated a few friends by carrying on with another guy, whom she knew to have a girlfriend, and convincing him to dump the girlfriend for her. She apparently only began to show interest in the guy once he and his girlfriend were official. She also tried a similar routine with another couple we know.

My boyfriend has told me that while he and P had been good friends, their friendship has waned. I’m still uneasy about this because he asked me to go through his phone to find a message a friend had texted him and, because I’m not a smartphone user, I had trouble with the touch screen, selected the wrong message and saw that he had texted her that she is “cute” and “adorable when you are drunk.”

We had a talk about the text messages and he let me look through the rest. Apparently, they were at an event together and she asked if they could talk privately. She told him that things were not going well with the guy she had been dating and that she is upset her parents won’t pay for her to go to grad school and want her to get a job instead. From the texts, she made him promise they would hang out all the time and be “best friends.” My boyfriend has a white knight complex and the affectionate text was sent later that night, when he was home, still drunk, and she texted him. He was “trying to cheer up,” and swears that it wasn’t affectionate, just old friends. My close guy friends and I don’t talk like that.

My boyfriend and I mutually set the following boundaries regarding him and P: no hanging out one-on-one, and no getting drunk together. He has said he plans to spend some time with her in the city, but will be busy most of the time with work, school, and visiting me. I trust my boyfriend not to do anything wrong, but I don’t think he can tell what’s manipulative and what is genuine with P. I don’t want to tell him to not hang out with his friend, but I don’t feel like this is a good friendship and I’m a bit uncomfortable. Is there a better compromise/solution to be made here? — Uneasy about His “Friend”

125 comments… add one
  • avatar

    ReginaRey June 11, 2012, 9:10 am

    I think you’ve already done the best thing you can do: Communicate with your boyfriend about your concerns, and set very clear boundaries that both of you can agree on and feel comfortable with.

    I completely understand your concerns, and think they’re pretty valid given what you’ve shared with us about “P.” But unfortunately, the rest is now out of your control. You’ve done what you can, and the rest is about trusting your boyfriend not to toe the line or blatantly cross it.

    It’s up to your boyfriend to maintain his end of the relationship by being trustworthy and faithful, but you’ve also got a pretty big part to play in this newly-long-distance relationship. Let me assure you right now — The quickest way to kill this LDR is to allow your worries about this girl to seep in and make you overtly distrustful, insecure, needy, or smothering. I’m not saying you’re going to be able to put aside all of your worries…that’s probably not possible. But for the sake of your relationship, you can’t allow yourself to stumble into insecure territory. You know, checking in with your boyfriend every hour, asking him to tell you what he’s doing at all hours, fishing for details about her, etc. Becoming his warden or his mom isn’t going to do positive things for your relationship.

    Trust him, try not to nag him or get insecure, and visit each other as often as possible. You’ve already done a great job of communicating about THIS issue, so continue that trend with communicating about your LDR in general. What’s your preferred style of communication? What expectations do you have about keeping up that communication (texting, talking on the phone…how often, what times, etc), and what expectations you have about visiting, etc. Make plans as far out as you can, to give you both something to look forward to. LDRs are difficult already, so don’t focus on the negatives. Being positive and actively working on your relationship while you’re apart is the best way to keep things healthy.

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    • avatar

      Muffy June 11, 2012, 12:08 pm

      Agree completely. If he oversteps those boundaries then consider moving on from him – it’s about trust and when someone breaks it, it’s almost impossible to go back. I personally cannot be in a relationship if I’m constantly worrying about the other person – I would rather be alone.

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      • Tracey

        Tracey June 11, 2012, 12:37 pm

        And don’t give him too many do-overs if (when?) he oversteps those bounds. You’ve talked, he’s promised. Now it’s time for him to show you he means what he says without allowing him to slip repeatedly. Once, maybe twice, then done.

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  • katie

    katie June 11, 2012, 9:23 am

    i agree with RR- youve set boundaries, now you just have to trust that your boyfriend will follow through with them. this is an issue that has come up and been addressed, so you have to act as though the issue is closed… even though, i guess technically its not because he will still see her. but, you have to act as if that is the case…

    and also, just like RR said, dont become the jealous overprotective girlfriend. thats the quickest relationship killer- so much quicker then any insecure attention seeking old flame could ever be.

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  • avatar

    Mainer June 11, 2012, 9:52 am

    “because I’m not a smartphone user, I had trouble with the touch screen”

    Come on, now. This isn’t fooling anyone. This same tactic was used in A Christmas Story: “I don’t know what happened…I…I was just watering my plant and….and I broke your lamp.”

    You used up all the glue on PURPOSE!

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    • avatar

      savannah June 11, 2012, 9:58 am

      have you seen your parents/grandparents try to use a touchscreen phone recently? makes me wanna give mine a stationary set.

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      • JK

        JK June 11, 2012, 10:01 am

        I´m useless with touch screens, as well. And I´m 33, so not terribly old. Technology is ust not my thing:

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    • call-me-hobo

      call-me-hobo June 11, 2012, 10:00 am

      I dunno- I don’t have a smart phone, and whenever I DO use one, I usually end up fat-fingering whatever I am trying to do. (Accidently clicking on something when I meant to click on something close to it)

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      • avatar

        MsMisery82 June 12, 2012, 12:48 pm

        Me too. I had an iPod touch, and it made me swear off anything with touch technology FOR EVER AND EVER. I am not sure if I just got a buggy iPod or if I am just personally incompatible with touch screens, but damn I hated that thing (had it for 3 yrs). Was so glad to get a classic for xmas.

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    • avatar

      Mainer June 11, 2012, 10:08 am

      Oh no, this silly touch screen. I accidentally went into P’s text messages. Oh weird. How do I back out, I scroll down? Whoops. Thank god I “accidentally” fumbled onto this text convo and was able to decipher your TRUE feelings from this short text exchange, otherwise this could have got real messy.

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    • avatar

      kerrycontrary June 11, 2012, 10:13 am

      yeh, lets be serious here. Just say you looked through your boyfriends text messages when he gave you an excuse to be going through his phone. It’s cool, we won’t judge you.

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    • avatar

      Caris June 11, 2012, 10:15 am

      I’m 22. I still have one of those old nokias. I tried using my friends touch screen smartphones and it turns out I suck. One of them wanted to show me an sms he had gotten and I ended up looking at the wrong message. So I believe her. I tired playing fruit ninja on my others friend phone and it turns out I suck REAL bad lol.

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      • JK

        JK June 11, 2012, 10:19 am

        I hope they never stop making phones with buttons.

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    • avatar

      ReginaRey June 11, 2012, 10:18 am

      Eh. I don’t have an iPhone, and basically everyone I know does. I used my brother’s iPhone to take a picture of my dog and send it to my roommate, and when I was trying to find her reply in his messages, I accidentally saw a text from an ex-girlfriend of his that I know he wouldn’t have wanted me glimpsing.

      I’m guessing that she’s probably being truthful, to an extent. I’m guessing she was in his messages, and accidentally saw her name and the beginning of the text…and then couldn’t resist clicking on the convo to read further. I don’t think it’s THAT big of a deal. I probably would have clicked on it, too, if I’d seen a convo between my boyfriend and his manipulative-boyfriend-stealing friend.

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      • JK

        JK June 11, 2012, 10:21 am

        That was pretty close to my guess, as well I prefer giving LW the benefit of the doubt. And I would definitely have clicked on a message like that.

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    • avatar

      Mainer June 11, 2012, 10:22 am

      Look, I’m not saying what she did was wrong. He obviously didn’t care, he let her read the rest of the text convo. But stop with this need to feel you have to “justify” the fact that you let your curiosity run and were put in a position to “confirm” previous beliefs. You don’t think it is a tad coincidental that, of all the text messages in his phone, and given her already existing distrust of P, she just accidentally “fat fingered” in to P’s and his text convo? I mean it’s sweet you all think that these types of things are all mysterious, accidental little miracles, but we’ve discussed on here before the extent people will go to try and confirm a suspicion. I get why she blamed the smartphone, she didn’t want it to “appear” she was snooping, but it’s not like it was a true accident, otherwise she would have backed right out and not felt the need to read what she accidentally clicked into.

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      • Fabelle

        Fabelle June 11, 2012, 10:41 am

        People tend to come down hard on snoopers around here, though– if she didn’t meticulously explain how she came to read the message, there’d be a whole stream of comments speculating what happened/telling her “This is why snooping is bad!” There’s really no good way to ward that off.

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      • avatar

        ktfran June 11, 2012, 10:47 am

        Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

        I will say this, I suck at iphones. Or touch screens. Or whatever. I always mess my sisters up somehow and need her to get back to the screen I’m supposed to be on.

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      • avatar

        Mainer June 11, 2012, 10:50 am

        It is a tough position, I agree. I just don’t like this whole tricking yourself or others by saying “let’s all pretend it wasn’t snooping, okay?”. For every person who would give her shit for snooping, I’d be there to give her props for being honest about it. “Look, I had his phone, P’s text convo was there, I don’t trust that bitch one bit, so I clicked on it to see if she was sending my bf nudes or something.” Cool, we’d all do the same. Thanks for not bullshitting us to try and paint yourself in some sort of false light.

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      • avatar

        BeckyGrace June 11, 2012, 12:39 pm

        Um… how about easing back a bit… you are being REALLY harsh in a forum that values respect…

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      • avatar

        Mainer June 12, 2012, 9:13 am

        First of all, there is nothing I said that was disrespectful. Simply calling someone out on an attempt to win the favor of the readers/commenters by pretending she discovered a text by mere happenstance of complete and innocent unfamiliarity of a smartphone is not being “REALLY harsh.” I can’t imagine the sheltered life one would have to live for that to be considered “REALLY harsh.”

        So if by “easing back a bit” you’re really asking me to simply jump on the wagon of this whole denial thing you all have going on where you like to pretend you weren’t actually snooping simply because it’s frowned upon, then I apologize, that is not going to happen. The situations in which information is discovered that confirm (or seemingly confirm) a previously established suspicion very rarely happen “by accident.” Aside from physically walking in on your significant other banging another person, you are going to have to do some detective work to “stumble” upon evidence of your suspicion. My only issue, and this was genuinely my only reason for posting originally, is that you all keep pretending you weren’t doing what you really were doing. I respect a person’s decision to let their curiosity get the best of them, there is nothing abnormal or un-human about that. Just own up to it. That is it. That is my measures of truly respecting a person, since that seems to be something you all value so much. What I do not respect is deceiving yourself or others by pretending your some innocent angel who tripped over a cellphone and it fell in your lap with all the information you were looking for staring you in the face.

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      • Budj

        Budj June 11, 2012, 10:42 am

        agreeed.

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      • avatar

        Caris June 11, 2012, 10:48 am

        I beleive her because it happened to me. I didnt end up reading anything i wasnt supposed to or anything but i know its a very possible thing to happen.

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    • avatar

      bethany June 11, 2012, 11:08 am

      I’m an iphone user, and when my dad gives me his blackberry and asks me to do something on it (like send a text while he’s driving, or something), I’m like a moron!! I have NO idea how to use the thing!

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    • avatar

      camille905 June 11, 2012, 11:20 am

      Actually this has happened to me. I have iPhone but my fiance has an Android phone and it’s different enough that I sometimes has difficulty finding what I’m looking for and tap on the wrong thing. SO. It could happen.

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    • avatar

      ele4phant June 11, 2012, 11:26 am

      Uh, I’m not a smart phone user, and this totally could/has happened to me. I haven’t found anything of note, but there have definitely been times where I’ve been trying to find photos and ended up in the Yelp apps when using my boyfriend’s phone.

      This sounds legit to me.

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    • bagge72

      bagge72 June 11, 2012, 10:45 am

      I konw right? It was probably was like 10 messages away, but some how she still selected that one by mistake!

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    • avatar

      Jiggs June 11, 2012, 12:16 pm

      I have fat thumbs so I have no problem believing this. I can frequently be found swearing at my smartphone because I followed some random link instead of hitting next or something like that.

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    • avatar

      temperance June 11, 2012, 7:48 pm

      Honestly, I have a smart phone and I occasionally have trouble with the touch screen. I’ve accidentally set off the scrolling on messages and email, which is really annoying when you want to read one.

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  • Fabelle

    Fabelle June 11, 2012, 9:54 am

    Okay LW, so it sounds like you & your boyfriend have good communication skills already & that will be key during your upcoming time apart. I agree with you that his friendship with “P” doesn’t sound very good– she seems troubled and attention-seeking, which is the perfect combination for what you describe as his “white knight” complex. So, at best, their interactions feed into the worst parts of each of them. Even if your boyfriend could tell the difference between genuine need and manipulative-ness, it probably wouldn’t matter– either way, he’s getting some kind of ego boost from her.

    Not to be all doom & gloom, but the no-hanging-out-one-on-one, no-getting-drunk agreement will most likely get thrown to the wayside at least on one occassion. They’re in the same city while you’re absent, & it will be harder to abide by that rule. Is that something you’re prepared for? Because if he IS trustworthy, then that rule could seem– to him– arbitrary enough to lie about, if only to ease your mind. If you want the communication lines to remain open, then don’t try to remotely enforce that rule.

    That’s really the only advice I have– similiar to what RR said, of COURSE you’re going to be worried…but it’s unfortunately a bit out of your hands.

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  • rilooyah

    rilooyah June 11, 2012, 9:56 am

    Agreed, RR hit it on the head, per usual. :o)

    And Steph, I think you are absolutely right- that trust in him needs to be recognized as fully separate from distrust of P.

    Honestly, I cant believe ppl are still friends with this chick-that-likes-to-steal-boyfriends. In the friends group is it just the mindset of “Oh, you know P- only likes the ones that are taken! haha! There she goes again! Adorbs! lol lol!”? Or what? I dont get that aspect.

    Good luck, LW. Trust is your friend, is really the best advice I can think of for your situation.

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    • mandalee

      mandalee June 11, 2012, 10:47 am

      Honestly, I cant believe ppl are still friends with this chick-that-likes-to-steal-boyfriends. In the friends group is it just the mindset of “Oh, you know P- only likes the ones that are taken! haha! There she goes again! Adorbs! lol lol!”? Or what? I dont get that aspect. <—Right?!

      I feel like so many Dear Wendy letters lately are full of groups of friends who are totally okay including a drama queen boyfriend stealer. I mean, really? Even with the males enjoying the attention (if they do), I can't imagine her awesome qualities outweigh her negative ones. In my group of friends, it seems to be if you come out as a negative on the fun-drama scale, then see ya later!

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      • avatar

        Muffy June 11, 2012, 12:14 pm

        I would never hang out with a girl like that. Or be in a social group with that person. I have anxiety issues without being around someone to excerbate them.

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  • avatar

    Ally June 11, 2012, 10:31 am

    I have to disagree 100%, I DON’T think RR hit it on the head. I think this relationship is over, the writer just can’t admit it yet. There is no such thing as “white knight syndrome” in men – when they say they are trying to help out a girl whom they are secretly texting about their cuteness, they are liars and cheaters. Come on people, it’s really very simple in life: a man who wants to spend the rest of his life with someone does NOT appreciate the gross come-ons of a needy friend. They kick that girl to the curb and are completely open to their GF about it. The more boundaries, rules, and snooping that is needed (or feels like is needed) that are required for the writer to feel secure are the waving red flags that scream MOA!

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    • avatar

      Lindsay June 11, 2012, 10:40 am

      You make good points. I’m not sure how telling someone they are adorable when they are drunk is going to help them through a tough time. It also makes me wonder what the boundaries are for — to put the LW at ease or to ensure that the boyfriend doesn’t cheat? Because if my boyfriend had to have rules in place to keep him from getting together with his friend, then that would be a big red flag. Still seems a little pre-emptive to dump him over this though.

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      • avatar

        Guy Friday June 11, 2012, 11:04 am

        Well, I’ve said “you’re adorable when drunk” in the context of a friend telling me “I think I’m hideous, and I have absolutely no positive qualities.” It’s supposed to make them smile, in the sense that it wasn’t really something you’d call a POSITIVE quality.

        As for the boundaries, I read that as “LW had an issue that boyfriend didn’t realize it was an issue, LW raised the issue to boyfriend, boyfriend acknowledged issue and had open discussion with her about helping her feel more at ease, boundaries were set.” I don’t get the impression that this guy would cheat even if the boundaries weren’t set, but it’s probably a good-faith gesture on his part to show the LW that he cares about what upsets her and would do what’s necessary to show her she can trust him.

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    • avatar

      amy June 11, 2012, 10:46 am

      White knight syndrom does exist. Also, I think if he was doing something wrong, he wouldn’t have let her look through all of the text messages. He would be hiding things from her. He seems to be being open and honest about this situation which is a good sign to me.

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    • mandalee

      mandalee June 11, 2012, 10:53 am

      I wouldn’t say the relationship is over, but the actions are troubling. My husband had a friend who was a huge drama queen boyfriend stealer when we started dating. After one night out with her where she crossed the line many times, I let him know I didn’t appreciate her or his inability to shut her down. The next time we all hung out, he basically spelled it out for her as nice as possible. When she caused more drama on my birthday, he cut her out of his life.

      I think it’s great that the LW and her boyfriend can talk about her uncomfortableness and set boundaries. However, this friend doesn’t seem to do good with boundaries if she’s already broken up a few relationships. I just wonder if they discussed what would happen if they do hang out one or one or get drunk together? Is it game over? Will the LW just get upset and the boyfriend makes excuses?

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      • avatar

        Guy Friday June 11, 2012, 11:06 am

        I wonder if they discussed it too, but I also have a gut feeling that a guy who is willing to have this open discussion and set these boundaries is also the kind of guy who would approach it the same way your husband did: lay it out as to why these boundaries needed to be set, ask her to respect them, and if she doesn’t, she’s out of his life. I don’t fault him for giving the friend one last shot; sometimes these things need to be spelled out for people to grasp them.

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    • avatar

      Caris June 11, 2012, 10:55 am

      except he would have called her crazy or tell her her freak out was an overreaction, but he didn’t.

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      • avatar

        amy June 11, 2012, 11:04 am

        exactly, he had a rational discussion with her. Not exactly something a cheater would do, I don’t think.

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    • avatar

      Guy Friday June 11, 2012, 10:59 am

      Bull. I’m very much in love with my wife, and I have absolutely no desire to cheat on her, and I’ve sent texts to female friends in that exact scenario: they’re feeling seriously down, and I tell them not to be so hard on themselves. And I’ve called them “cute” and “adorable when drunk” before. I do it because I like that I can be the guy that people can count on, and, yes, I like that they trust me enough that they can come to me with their fears and insecurities and doubts and vulnerabilities because, again, I’m not going to cheat on my wife. And you know how you know I’m not secretly trying to get into their pants? Because if I wanted them in that way, I wouldn’t be calling them “cute”; I’d be calling them “sexy” or “hot” or “irresistible.” And as for the “not telling the LW about the texts”, it’s perfectly understandable if you’re a normal couple who, you know, has separate lives from each other. I don’t ask my wife about every text she sends to people. She’s known the maid of honor in our wedding for 6 years now, and she’s closer to her than she is with her own sisters. But hey, a lot of people can be in the closet about being bisexual, so maybe there’s something more going on there? Maybe I should be skeptical about every time they’ve had dinner or drinks together? Who knows what they might be planning to do behind my back?!

      I love when people say that life is “simple” and make sweeping generalizations about things, even things like this that they figure are black-and-white. The truth is that life is very rarely simple, and life is very rarely black and white. There is no evidence that the LW’s boyfriend has said any of the usual phrases we see in letters when dealing with cheaters: “It’s no big deal”, “You’re crazy”, etc. In fact, the boyfriend clearly respects the LW’s concerns, because they developed mutually set boundaries. Boundaries are perfectly reasonable to have in healthy relationships, and these aren’t unreasonable boundaries to set; they’re basically “don’t put yourself in situations where she tends to be vulnerable.” So, unless and until this guy breaks his boundaries, I believe he deserves an opportunity to show he’s serious about it.

      (And somewhat tangentially, if a female friend of mine wants to hit on me in a moment of insecurity or self-doubt, why should I be Judgy McJudgerson? Am I perfect? Far from it. It’s not like they can make me some kind of offer that will cause me to reconsider my vows or my loyalty to my wife. I also stay friends with people who drunk dial me to chat, sleep around randomly without protection, and who voted for Scott Walker in Wisconsin’s recall election, all things that I think are ridiculous to do. They’re my friends, and I want to help them with my love and my support to fix the fundamental issues that cause them to do these things. And, yes, I DO include voting for Scott Walker in that category 🙂 )

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      • avatar

        amy June 11, 2012, 11:10 am

        When I was feeling down when i was out at a bar with my friend and her fiance’, the fiance’ pretended to hit on me to make me feel better 😀 He pretended to pick me up while my best friend was right there lol. It made my night but I know it was absolutely done to only lift my spirits (was waiting on that dreaded phone call after a first date a few days prior and I was feeling in the dumps)

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        ktfran June 11, 2012, 11:28 am

        GFriday –

        The relationship you have with your wife sounds very much like the kind of relationship I want. Let me know if you’re ever single. Kidding!

        In all seriousness, I agree with you. Unless the LW’s boyfriend gives her reason to be insecure, she shouldn’t sweat this P chick. Also, if the bf wants to cheat, he will. No amount of prodding from anyone of the opposite sex will make him cheat.

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      • avatar

        DMR June 12, 2012, 9:10 am

        Guy Friday,

        “There is no evidence that the LW’s boyfriend has said any of the usual phrases we see in letters when dealing with cheaters: “It’s no big deal”, “You’re crazy”, etc.”

        Hah! You tell us life isn’t simple, then try to convince us that it’s easy to tell if someone’s a cheater: just consult the ‘cheat sheet’ of phrases that adulterers typically use!
        Seriously. I think it’s great that you can flirt outrageously with women just to cheer them up, and your wife doesn’t care. Presumably you’re a high status male – which means that the rules are different for you. (As a high status male you should have figured that out by now, bud). Meanwhile what we’re trying to do here is figure out what’s probably going on with these two lovebirds, and in 99 cases out of a hundred, a guy texting a woman that she’s cute and adorable is a pretty good indication that the guy wants to get into her pants.

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    • bagge72

      bagge72 June 11, 2012, 11:07 am

      I don’t think this relationship is over, but I do agree that you don’t send somebody a text telling them the are a cute, and adorable drunk, to make them feel better about themselves. I don’t think he is a cheater though, I think he has been friends with this girl a long time, and since he used to have a crush on this girl, this is the type of attention he has always gave her, and he probably does need to be reminded by his GF that it isn’t ok to be talking to this girl that way. This girl has had 5 years to break up this relationship, and she hasn’t yet, so if they do end up breaking up, it’s not because this girl stole him from her, it’s going to be that he really isn’t in as much love with the LW as he thought, and then they go there seperate ways, if this brings him into the arms of his long lost love who is his bff then that’s what happens.

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    • avatar

      Muffy June 11, 2012, 12:15 pm

      I don’t know if I could be in a relationship with a man who felt it was duty to save everyone. Just me lol 🙂

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    • avatar

      rachel June 11, 2012, 1:36 pm

      I can understand why you think this, but honestly I have a friend who I could easily see something like this happening to. He’s just a super nice guy and many women have taken advantage of his generosity.

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    • avatar

      temperance June 11, 2012, 7:51 pm

      Honestly, I disagree with you. While he could very well have boned this skank, and very possibly could have, he might just be that clueless because their friendship has always been just on the other side of appropriate, KWIM?

      Mr. Temperance didn’t realize that his friendship with another woman was inappropriate until I complained to him about it. He thought that long phone calls and messages and “cute” status updates referencing each other were fine. We weren’t dating long, and my gay male friends and I would do this … but this girl had a ladyboner for him and was making a play. He was too stupid to realize it. He hasn’t done anything since and he stopped talking to her. (She even tried the “I really want to get to know your girlfriend!” tactic. Ugh.)

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      • avatar

        Jubietta June 11, 2012, 10:29 pm

        Ladyboner! ha! That made me smile at the end of a tough day. Thanks for it!

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  • avatar

    amy June 11, 2012, 10:32 am

    I think you are handling the situation very maturely. You told him your worries, and you set boundaries. If he was doing something wrong, he wouldn’t have let you read any of the other text messages.

    My fiance’ is in Colorado and I am in New York and he has friends out there. He was going to travel home for the summer (as in a three day drive) with his female friend, and I was ok with that. Granted, she is not manipulative.

    The point is, it seems like your boyfriend doesn’t care for this girl in the way she wants him to. No matter how needy or manipulative she can become, it is still your boyfriends choice to stay faithful to YOU.

    Keep doing what you are doing. Don’t put any suspicion or anything on him because he will begin to feel guilty thinking that you don’t trust him. Trust is EVERYTHING in a long distance relationship. So is communication. Looks like you’ve already started the communication part, keep that up, stick to the boundaries that have been set, and you guys will be fine.

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    • avatar

      amy June 11, 2012, 10:33 am

      You also have the added benefit of your boyfriend being able to visit you. That’s a plus, in my book.

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  • avatar

    Lindsay June 11, 2012, 10:32 am

    Sounds like you already came up with a compromise. If you do trust your boyfriend, then it shouldn’t matter what P does. (It might be annoying, yes, but she can’t take him from you without his consent.) If he’s the sort of guy who is led astray by her, then he’s not good enough for you.

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  • avatar

    SpaceySteph June 11, 2012, 9:40 am

    No need for any of the rest of us to respond, since Regina Rey has it covered. But I am gonna pipe in anyways because I had this happen to me once.

    LW, your fears are not unfounded. I’d like to say that first. You’re not crazy. There exist in the world manipulative boyfriend-stealing women, and this P sounds like one of them.

    However, if you think that your bf is a good guy and you trust him then you actually have to trust him. Trust that even though she might make a pass at him, he’ll turn her down. Trust that even though you aren’t around to remind him that he loves you, he’ll know it anyways. And trust that when he promises he won’t hang out with her drunk or one-on-one he’ll do what he says.
    It’s hard to separate distrust of her from trust of him, but you need to make the clear distinction in your head. He’s your boyfriend, who you love and trust. He promised to be faithful to you, and you trust that he will. Focus on that.
    I’m not saying it’s easy. But if you don’t trust him, your long distance relationship will fall apart anyways, with or without P’s help.

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  • avatar

    Suzanne June 11, 2012, 10:49 am

    If my partner was texting some other girl late at night that she was “cute” and “adorable”, I would have a huge problem with that. Like that maybe he’s not really as ready to commit as she hopes he is.

    And now the boyfriend is going to live close to the other girl and has already said he plans to spend time with her? I guess there’s nothing else to do but wait and see, but I think I’d be having more in-depth discussions. Does he see himself marrying her? Is he in love? How does he see their future? These questions might reveal a lot.

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    • avatar

      Suzanne June 11, 2012, 11:00 am

      (The questions are about his feelings for the LW, not the other girl.)

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    • avatar

      kerrycontrary June 11, 2012, 11:10 am

      Yeh I might blow a gasket if my boyfriend called a girl he knew (and admittedly used to have a crush on) “cute” or ‘adorable”. That’s just so disrespectful to your partner to speak to someone else like that. I mean would the LW’s boyfriend liked if she was texting some other guy that he was hot or sexy? No.

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  • Budj

    Budj June 11, 2012, 10:56 am

    Your bf is playing with fire in this situation. This individual is proving to be someone that likes the thrill of wooing a taken man… I’m not quite sure I understand his desire to be friends with her when it’s fairly obvious what is going on on her end.

    I also wouldn’t read into those two text messages….that is a pretty textbook way of deflecting a drunk girl’s awkward over-complimenting….but that doesn’t mean worse things haven’t been said between them… The whole situation is weird to me though…if their friendship has waned and she clearly would have no qualms about ruining your and his relationship then why continue this friendship?

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    • landygirl

      landygirl June 11, 2012, 11:23 am

      You brought up my concern…why is he still friends with the high drama women who is also a boyfriend stealer. I’m sure he likes the attention but does he like it enough to take it to a different level. Hopefully not.

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  • littlebit

    littlebit June 11, 2012, 11:03 am

    Am I the only one that feels like her bf is getting too much credit? As if he has no fault in this situation? I feel like he’s saying what the LW wants to hear…
    That little text conversation could be a red flag, and it seems like even the LW doesn’t believe it was an innocent situation. I think that the text shouldn’t be played down just b/c the bf was drunk; he knew what he was doing. Like she said, not even her close guy friends talk like that. I feel like he’s trying to act like it wasn’t a big deal, like it’s the other girl w/ the issue.
    It’s like the bf is still leaving his “doors” open while continuing his relationship. Hate to say it, but
    the friendship w/ the other girl isn’t platonic; someone has feelings for the other person…
    Like Fabelle said, he may be getting some kinda ego boost from her, especially knowing she has interest in him.
    My advice would be to focus on you, LW. Yeah, it sucks that this situation is out of your control b/c you can’t control their feelings and actions. I feel like you have a lot going for you, and the worrying about you LDR could hinder your amazing future. Just keep your mind open, be prepared for the obstacles you may face, even if at some point you guys don’t stay together. It’s hard not knowing what the future holds, but the only person you can control is you.
    Anyway, if he already knows how uncomfortable the other girl makes you feel, but he doesn’t respect that and remains unusually close to her…let him go. You deserve better 🙂

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    • Budj

      Budj June 11, 2012, 11:08 am

      I don’t read much into those two text messages itself, but if they have been together 5 years and this is the first time her alarm is going off then I have to give the LW some more credit based on her ability to witness how the two interact with each other which may be causing her reading into those text messages….

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      • littlebit

        littlebit June 11, 2012, 11:18 am

        True. Plus, the whole “friendship” seems a little odd…hopefully this doesn’t grow into an even bigger problem…

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    • JK

      JK June 11, 2012, 12:11 pm

      Great comment, littlebit, I´m glad you decided to stay 🙂

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      • littlebit

        littlebit June 11, 2012, 12:26 pm

        Thanks JK! I’m here to stay haha!

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    • avatar

      cdobbs June 11, 2012, 2:55 pm

      I wish I read your post before I posted mine…you said it perfectly…agree 100%

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  • avatar

    Desiree June 11, 2012, 11:17 am

    The thing that I don’t understand is why guys keep these kind of female friends in their lives, particularly if they truly value their significant others. My fiance has a lot of female friends (several of whom are ex-girlfriends), but none of them are like this. If my fiance had a good female friend who acted this way, I would want a damn good explanation of *why* he felt the need to keep her as a close friend.

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    • KKZ

      KKZ June 11, 2012, 12:42 pm

      I dealt with something like this once in college, when a mutual friend from a campus club wedged herself between my fiance-at-the-time and me. There it wasn’t so hard to see why my fiance liked having this woman around – personality-wise, she was very much like a female version of him: outgoing, center-of-attention, raunchy sense of humor, take-no-shit attitude. And I think that’s why her over-the-top flirting and reputation for promiscuity and recklessness didn’t bother him so much – because they got along so well otherwise, he could overlook her bad behavior.

      That’s the only explanation I can come up with for why people let these drama queens stick around – that when they’re NOT being drama queens, they can be decent people and even kinda fun. I’ve noticed too that over the long term, these people do end up alone when their friends get tired of putting up with their drama – but there’s still that period where everyone puts up with her. Or when a friendship only lingers because there’s a long history and no real solid reason to get rid of her (dumping a friend, IMHO, can be harder than dumping a S.O.). Or she’s tight with one person in the group and the rest of them just tolerate her because they don’t see her often. Etc. It’s hard to judge a friendship from the outside.

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    • avatar

      temperance June 11, 2012, 8:01 pm

      THIS. I don’t have personal relationships with single, straight men that would break up my relationship, and Mr. Temperance doesn’t have relationships like that with women. Simple, right?

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  • caitie_didnt

    caitie_didnt June 11, 2012, 11:51 am

    Huge props to this LW for handling this situation maturely and rationally. It seems like BF is on the level- I think if he was actively trying to cheat with this girl, the conversation would have devolved into “you’re crazy, you’re imagining things” and similar gaslighting behaviour, instead of the rational compromise that it was.

    Having said that….why do people keep these drama mamas in their lives? What value is P adding to the boyfriend’s life other than playing into his need to feel like a rescuer or a protector? Is she a loyal friend? Have they been friends since childhood? Is she generous and kind otherwise (I’m going to guess not, since generous, kind people often don’t go around sabotaging relationships for the fun of it)? Is she fun to party with? Is she a good networker and can hook him up with valuable contacts in his new city? If no, and he’s keeping her around because of a misguided sense of duty or responsibility, then yes, he is absolutely, 100% playing with fire. I feel like the “white knight complex” is often closely tied to a large ego and a need to satisfy that ego by feeling morally or otherwise superior and having people be dependent on them. i.e. “everyone else has turned their back on this person (because they can’t be trusted) but I didn’t so I’m better than all of you! I’m just being the bigger person, I can’t believe you’d let someone’s indescretions colour your view of them”.

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  • katie

    Katie June 11, 2012, 11:58 am

    I don’t understand why any and a interactions between men and women are automatically assumed as sexual. I don’t get that.

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    • avatar

      A June 11, 2012, 12:32 pm

      thank the Lord- finally a sane voice. Rainbow have yuo never been in a group out having drinks and said to a good female friend in some context or another that she is adorable, or ” your cute when your mad/drunk/ …” insert whatever you like. these exchanges can be friendly and fun and nothing more….Its so exhausting thats so many people here to jump on the MOA train with so quickly. Its a wonder anyone in that group has a relationship if everytime you hear a comment you dont like and that can be miscontrued you run for the door!

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    • CatsMeow

      CatsMeow June 11, 2012, 12:33 pm

      THANK YOU.

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  • rainbow

    rainbow June 11, 2012, 11:15 am

    We’ve answered this exact same letter several times already, and every time a new version comes in the LW makes a worse job pinning all the responsibility on the other girl and explaining why her relationship with her boyfriend is meant to be.
    LW, you don’t trust this guy. That’s not a great relationship at all. Learn how to, or move on.
    Also, we’ve heard the line where he’s honest but a bit slow to understand people’s real intentions and just wants to make his insecure friend feel better too many times to keep count, and it’s been sounding like a convenient excuse since the very first time. No woman in the world could be gorgeous and twisted enough to intrude in someone else’s relationship unless at least one of the people in it wants her there.

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    • avatar

      Desiree June 11, 2012, 11:25 am

      I understand what you are saying, but I do have some empathy for the LW. I have trouble sometimes deciding whether my fears are rational or ridiculous. I have trusted guys in the past who did not deserve it, and sometimes I have that creeping fear of being taken advantage of again. On the other hand, no one wants to sabotage a good relationship with unfounded insecurity. It can be a tough balance; I know it is for me.

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    • littlebit

      littlebit June 11, 2012, 11:27 am

      Exactly!! Seems like he wants the other girl there, and he’s using a convenient excuse! Red flags…

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    • CatsMeow

      CatsMeow June 11, 2012, 11:45 am

      I’m on the fence with this one. I honestly wonder WHO all these manipulative, boyfriend-stealing drama queens are. I mean, are they really so common? I’ve never known anyone like this. I’ve had friends who developed crushes on guys with girlfriends, and I’ve done the same thing (it happens), but the red flag for ME is that the LW places all the blame on the “other woman” while dismissing her boyfriend’s actions as “white knight syndrome.” Really? Come on. Your boyfriend is friends with a female who once went after a guy with a girlfriend. And now she’s some manipulative man-eating hussy whom you can’t trust your boyfriend to be alone with? If you trust him, then you trust him. Can’t we, as women, stop jealously portraying other women so negatively?

      Then again, I think they both handled the situation very maturely, and being able to keep the communication open and setting boundaries is very important – and is about to be even more important with the distance. I also understand how insecurities might be magnified with the relationship about to go through a difficult transition. Like I said, I’m torn on this one.

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      • Budj

        Budj June 11, 2012, 12:43 pm

        In my experience guys are deemed more desirable to women when they have a girl friend….not sure why…probably a lot of different reasons….but whenever I’ve had a girl friend they seem to come out of the woodwork and same thing with my other guy friends experiences.

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      • avatar

        ktfran June 11, 2012, 1:12 pm

        Some goes for girls. When I was engaged, I got hit on a lot. A lot more than I ever do when I’m single.

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      • avatar

        ktfran June 11, 2012, 1:12 pm

        Same. Not some. Sorry!

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      • bagge72

        bagge72 June 11, 2012, 1:44 pm

        Yeah I think there are couple of theories with that. One is that it shows a guy can be committed, and I think the other is one what happens to me a lot, I’m actually not as afraid to talk to girls when I’m in a relationship, because I’m not looking for anything out of it, so I’m more comfortable, easy going, and add that to how unfucking believably handsome I am, and the girls just want to date me. I was at a pizza joint with my fiancée, and a friend of mine, and I was just being friendly and talking to the hostess while we were waiting to be seated, and because of this she thought my fiancée, and my friend were together, and she wanted to go out with me.

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      • Lili

        Lili June 11, 2012, 12:44 pm

        Its could also be the girl everyone least expects. I think manipulative is a very broad term and can be used to fit a number of scenarios. I’m not trying to be a debbie downer, but men who want to cheat have ways of finding women to cheat with. Sometimes, the friendships/hangouts are even done with the wife’s knowledge, but of course she doesn’t know what EXACTLY goes on…Sorry if my comment isn’t helpful. I guess what I’m trying to say is I agree with Cats, we should all work on our insecurities, and then learn to trust our gut.

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      • CatsMeow

        CatsMeow June 11, 2012, 12:52 pm

        Yeah. If he’s gonna cheat, he’s gonna cheat – and that’s on him. The only thing that putting restrictions on when/how he can hang out with his friend will do is make the LW feel better – it won’t really prevent anything from happening, if it’s going to happen.

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      • Lili

        Lili June 11, 2012, 1:04 pm

        Its kinda ironic, I lived in this intensely insecure place when I was with my ex. Always worried he was going to cheat on me, how all his female friends were SO MUCH better/prettier/thinner/smarter/hotter than me and then I’d be a nervous wreck internally anytime he went out with the guys coming up with all these scenarios of all the hot women who’d be flinging themselves at MY HOT MAN. Also, I’d call/text frequently to make sure ‘I stayed present’ in his mind and phone. Yeah, not a shocker, we broke up. BUT Not because he cheated on me.

        Then, I got to be witness to a friend’s buildup to an affair with a married guy. Man were some of my ideas about cheating blown out of the water it really can be the person you least expect to be the one to end up sleeping with your man. If alcohol is involved, and a man and woman alone together…yeah something could happen. I also saw how the dynamic can work. It doesn’t matter if the wife and the gal are friends, have common friends etc. When people want to cheat, it will happen. There is no way to control what other people, just be good to each other, and always be honest.

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      • landygirl

        landygirl June 11, 2012, 2:23 pm

        Debbie Downer at Disneyland

        http://www.hulu.com/watch/68225

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      • avatar

        temperance June 11, 2012, 7:59 pm

        You are really lucky. I know a woman who is just like this, and I can’t deal with it. She did flirt with Mr. Temperance in front of me, he thought she was just being “friendly”, and I was understandably angry. Because I didn’t trust her, I would occasionally show up to bars when I knew she would be out trolling for attention from men in relationships (local open mic nights – full of men, very few women) just to see what she was up to because I didn’t trust her. She was dating a friend of mine at the time, FWIW.

        I found out a few months later that she fucked 2 of my male friends (not Mr. Temperance, who won’t speak to her because she’s trashy and no good – of course, me saying that she was bad news didn’t do it, her fucking our friends did) while dating another good friend. She was trying to play my other 2 friends against each other. She’s gross and a bad person, and she was actually “upset” when we stopped being friends. Uh, really? You have no morals and have no problem disrupting relationships.

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  • bagge72

    bagge72 June 11, 2012, 11:56 am

    The friend of the boyfriend here doesn’t sound that bad to me, just because she went after one guy who had a GF, doesn’t mean she is this girl that goes around trying that on every single guy, and we have know idea how much that other guy played in that. I didn’t see anything in the LW’s letter saying that this girl has ever done anything to make her think that she is trying to take this guy away from her. The only problem I see is that this girl tries to hangout with the LW’s boyfriend sometimes, and gets upset, because the LW wont let them hangout, and probably takes it the wrong way. Actually all of the problems that the LW describes sound like something a very jealous GF woulds say, because she thinks something is going on, but what really is happening is that they are very good friends, and they have always acted that way. Like I said before, this girl has had 5 years to try, and steal this guy from you, and nothing has happenend so it seems like an overraction.

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    • CatsMeow

      CatsMeow June 11, 2012, 12:14 pm

      This is the impression I’m getting too.

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      • CatsMeow

        CatsMeow June 11, 2012, 12:14 pm

        Well, mostly. I’m torn, as I said above.

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    • CatsMeow

      CatsMeow June 11, 2012, 12:32 pm

      I mean, she almost sounds like a typical jealous girlfriend who happens to also regularly read DW and therefore knows exactly what we are going to say, and so wrote her letter in a way that presents herself in the best possible light. Right? That’s why she “accidentally” snooped, and then had a calm and rational conversation with her boyfriend about boundaries. HMMMMMM….

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      • avatar

        ktfran June 11, 2012, 1:07 pm

        Interesting. And she even said they had a calm, rational conversation about it. Something we always tell the LW to do.

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      • bagge72

        bagge72 June 11, 2012, 1:13 pm

        haha yeah that is what I was thinking too!

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  • rilooyah

    rilooyah June 11, 2012, 12:58 pm

    After reading these, I had to read the letter again.

    This chick P (as alleged by LW) does the following: 1)makes nasty comments about Lw to LW’s bf, 2)becomes emotionally unhinged around bf, 3) has broken up one couple after becoming interested in the guy AFTER he and previous gf became official, 4) did same with another couple (presumably stealing guy from previous gf), 5) wants to be bfff foreversss with LW’s bf, and 6) is needy and fishing for compliments from LW’s bf often.

    Any one of theses behaviors in a “friend’ of a guy I was dating would be worrisome to me. I mean, seriously, what chick “friend” makes disparaging comments about a friend’s SO? That is inherently rude and nasty, with a few exceptions like, “dude, she’s cheating on you. I saw her kissing a guy outside a hotel,” or something like that. This “friend” is toxic. I mean, she is likely very insecure and has some issues with social norms, but that is no excuse.

    This letter totally reminded me of the “Friend”-who-sends-nudie-pics-to-my-bf letter, anyone else?

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    • avatar

      Caris June 11, 2012, 1:20 pm

      A little. But on the other letter, the bf dismissed the gfs concerns and told her there was nothing to worry about (a lie since the “friend’ had already sent him nude pics). And after confronted he admitted the ‘friend’ has been ‘a little over the top’ which is kind of a very big understatement. And he masturbated to them too. Ew.

      On this one the bf didn’t get mad that she saw the sms and then he let her see all of the conversation and supposedly they had a calm and rational conversation about boundaries.

      I’d recommend the LW to remain calm and cautious. Make sure the boundaries are respected but at the same time try not to act like a super jealous gf. Now, if you find you cannot trust your bf anymore break it off before it becomes long distance.

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    • katie

      katie June 11, 2012, 1:21 pm

      except that in the friend who sends nudie pics letter, the guy was totally dismissive and told the LW that nothing was going on and there was nothing to worry about.

      in this letter, the guy had a calm coversation with the LW, they agreed on boundaries, and wrapped it all up.

      im not saying that both stories might not end the same way, but atleast in this letter there is clear communication and understand on both sides. and once again, the “if hes gonna cheat, he will” thought proves true. what else are you supposed to do with your boyfriend? monitor hes every move? pre-approve friends? thats not real life. in real life, you communicate and then trust. thats literally all a person can do in this situation. thats all a person can do in ANY relationship ever!!

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  • bittergaymark

    bittergaymark June 11, 2012, 1:09 pm

    Eh, he’s just not that into you… Five years? No real commitment? Now he’s leaving town? Oh, wake up, honey. You’re both just dragging this one out.

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    • Lili

      Lili June 11, 2012, 1:17 pm

      Ha. I totally chuckled at reading this. How was your trip to OR btw?!

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      • bittergaymark

        bittergaymark June 11, 2012, 1:21 pm

        Fantastic! It’s gorgeous up there…

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      • Lili

        Lili June 11, 2012, 1:24 pm

        You should come a bit more north next time! PS-Its almost Cherry SEASON!

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      • bittergaymark

        bittergaymark June 11, 2012, 1:47 pm

        I so wanted to hop a train to Seattle…

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      • Lili

        Lili June 11, 2012, 1:56 pm

        Do it next time!!! You’re single right? I know some FUN places I’d love to take you 🙂 Its funny that I know all the awesome gay hotspots here, but its very hit or miss for me with bars regarding straight guys…

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      • bittergaymark

        bittergaymark June 11, 2012, 5:45 pm

        So single!!

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    • katie

      katie June 11, 2012, 1:23 pm

      i need to know your opinion on voodoo donuts!! donuts have been ruined for me, so i just tried to enjoy them the best i could… your verdict?

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      • bittergaymark

        bittergaymark June 11, 2012, 1:44 pm

        Voodoo Donuts: Okay, despite ordering rather BADLY… I was foolishly and drunkenly swayed by the oh-so-pretty colors of the one plastered with Fruit Loops cereal — I can thankfully still say that Voodoo Donuts ARE amazing because, luckily, I was given a bite of pure Maple Bacon heaven… That masterpiece was ordered up by my ex boyfriend (See? See! I practice what I preach! I met up with an old ex boyfriend and we had such a marvelous time together that he selflessly gave me a piece of true culinary delight!) Anybody going to Portland? Be sure to order up the Maple Bacon… Best. Donut. Ever.

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      • avatar

        Muffy June 11, 2012, 9:38 pm

        what are voodoo donuts!?

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        Jubietta June 11, 2012, 11:00 pm

        Voodoo donuts is a privately-owned donut shop on the east side of Portland that makes great donuts with some creative toppings, like cooked bacon or crushed cereal. The line often takes 15 minutes to get to the counter!

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      • bittergaymark

        bittergaymark June 12, 2012, 12:53 pm

        Our line was much shorter, but we hit it up super late at night… I think they have multiple locations, too. The one we visited was downtown…

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    • avatar

      Muffy June 11, 2012, 9:40 pm

      haha I thought that too. You have other problems to deal with LW – like the fact that after 5 years together he moved long distance for grad school away from you and no real commitment. The introduction of this new friend drama just seems like a giant waste of energy.

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  • Kristina

    Kristina June 11, 2012, 2:33 pm

    If this girl P has been like this throughout your relationship, I think it’s odd that it’s taken 5 years for you to become upset and jealous all of a sudden. In a way that shows there is something uneasy about your relationship that is making you so jealous. Maybe it’s the change to long-distance, but I think you’re making a big issue out of something small, and using it as an excuse for problems in your relationship. Don’t be that person that is ready to jump on the ‘other woman’ (which doesn’t sound like it at all anyways) for problems of trust in your relationship. You’re quick to blame people and say your boyfriend has white knight complex, but you’re not looking at the whole picture, in my opinion. If after 5 years, something as small as those texts P sent your boyfriend gets you this upset, then I think you have bigger issues you need to confront for yourself.

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  • avatar

    cdobbs June 11, 2012, 2:49 pm

    Letter writer dump this guy…no loyal boyfriend texts: “she is “cute” and “adorable when you are drunk.” Of course he tried to explain it away…its her fault…she is insecure…blah…blah…blah. He is just telling you what you want to hear. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you. Maybe he was drunk and felt extra flirty that night? Who knows (but him). But next time he is out and they get a drink together (and they will, because you won’t be there to catch him) who knows how far it will go. That text to me was a huge red flag…I would personally MOA.

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    • avatar

      Guy Friday June 11, 2012, 3:09 pm

      I wrote a very long response to this exact point above. Are you suggesting I’m disloyal or that I commit acts of infidelity?

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      • avatar

        cdobbs June 11, 2012, 4:36 pm

        I think he said she was “cute” and separately that she was “adorable when she was drunk”…i’m not saying that everyone who says these things is trying to hook up with someone…it was the whole tone of the letter…he used to have a crush on her…he plans to see her in the new city even though she puts down his girlfriend…when guys are backed into a corner they will say things to get out of trouble…i just don’t buy this guy’s explanation

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      • avatar

        Caris June 11, 2012, 9:44 pm

        Just because you are good friends with someone and are not afraid to call them cute/adorable doesn’t mean you want to cheat on you SO.

        I have a female friend who likes to grab/spank her friends butts. Shes been doing this for years. She’ll spank guys and girls, she doesn’t discriminate. Does it mean she wants something with them? No. Did she ever have feelings for any of this friends? No. Would she ever cheat on her SO? No. Did she ever cheat on an SO? No.

        This same friend likes to be uh drawn (?) on. If she sees your hands are not busy writing shell stretch her arm for you to draw on her with your fingers. Shes had everyone she knows do this to her. Again, it doesn’t mean she was trying to cheat or whatever.

        So why would someone calling someone else cute or adorable mean he means to cheat or that he is lying?

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      • bittergaymark

        bittergaymark June 11, 2012, 5:46 pm

        Yeah, Guy’s very thorough response made a lot of sense to me, actually.

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      • avatar

        DMR June 12, 2012, 9:15 am

        See my response above. You’re clearly a very handsome, high status male (aka alpha male). I’m not being sarcastic. The rules are a bit different for guys like you. When you flirt, women are grateful just that you’re flirting with them! A bit of attention from you is enough to cheer a woman up out of her doldrums! And there’s no way she would even dream that you might be interested in little ole her.
        Don’t mistakenly your experience of life is universal.
        When regular guys flirt with a woman, mostly it’s because they want to have sex with them. That’s just how it is, and all you’re doing is adding smoke.

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  • avatar

    MiMi June 11, 2012, 7:56 pm

    You’ve done all you can reasonably do vis a vis letting your guy know where you stand and how you feel – now what happens or doesn’t happen while he’s away is his responsibility. It will be a long, long future marriage if you plan on running interference on every shady lady who will ever cross his path…

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  • avatar

    LW June 11, 2012, 8:02 pm

    Hey all, LW here.

    Thank you all around for the advice! Even the advice that seemed scary to me was very helpful in helping me sort out my feelings.

    Few things:

    In writing this, I was worried about P’s description. Apparently, she’s pretty chill most of the time, but the interested-in-taken-guys thing is a big theme for her. I totally didn’t want to sound like I was stereotyping her, but I do know this has happened.

    1)Sadly, the bumbling-the-smartphone thing is true…I was going to the message above that, but when I got to P’s message, I did read it instead of clicking out, which perhaps, a better person would have done.
    2)They hang out in small and large groups (maybe 2x a month?) and I have never objected or told him him what to do…even though sometimes I’ve thought about it? So bad, obviously, but I have kept a button on it because acting insecure creates insecurity in the relationship.
    3) It is entirely plausible to me that I am displacing anxiety about being away.
    4) Boyfriend has said friendship soured after he realized she was manipulating him (as have other mutual friends);they’ve been friends since about six months before we started dating, so not childhood BFFs. He just thinks they’ve been friends awhile, have good mutual friends, so if nothing is wrong on his end, why carpet bomb the friendship?
    5) I do not think she wants a relationship with him, I heard through a mutual friend that she just thinks she can have him, if she wanted to, but she doesn’t…messed up right? Apparently, just a need for male attention and feel like she has him on the hook, so to speak. Boyfriend’s opinion on this? He says he never operates on hearsay and that I should trust him to shut it down.

    Boyfriend and I’s plan is to move to the same city once we’ve finished our masters and move in together.He says he wants nothing more than to spend the rest of life with me, and I believe he means it.

    If not, I know where to look for good advice, thanks all!

    As you can tell, I love and trust the boyfriend and just needed a better framework for evaluating this, since I want to be as fair to myself, my boyfriend, and even to P as I can be.

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    • CatsMeow

      CatsMeow June 12, 2012, 7:48 am

      OK. You and your boyfriend sound very reasonable, and I think you have every reason to trust him. Don’t let the distance and insecurities get the best of you! Good luck.

      Reply Link
    • fast eddie

      fast eddie June 12, 2012, 8:50 am

      Thanks for post scripting which relieves our anxiety and hopefully yours as well. LDRs are hard to live with but yours seems to be on track. Your anxiety is very understandable and we all hope it will be a positive to both of you in understanding that any relationship is dependent on mutual trust. 🙂

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  • fast eddie

    fast eddie June 11, 2012, 7:19 pm

    To the LW her boyfriend’s friend girl is a brazen hussy. To him she’s a kitten that needs his help. The reality is that if he does overstep the boundaries the LW can’t stop him. From my armchair perspective the kitten is poison and should be avoided. Back to reality, the better approach is what they already did, talk about it, then walk the walk.

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    • avatar

      Caris June 11, 2012, 9:48 pm

      I guess he never had a kitten. Otherwise he would know their claws are sharp as hell.

      Reply Link
      • fast eddie

        fast eddie June 12, 2012, 8:41 am

        And they can break your heart when they leave, whether they’re it 2 or 4 legged.

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    Sarah June 12, 2012, 12:13 am

    “fishing for compliments, needing attention, inviting him to things and getting sulky when he can’t attend.”

    Is she like this only around your BF, or around everyone? Because some people are just needy in general, but you might only be focusing on her interactions with your BF. And the negative comments about you — is that also specifically towards you and actually negative, or is she just the type of person who always has her foot in her mouth (or has a rude sense of humor)? And have you tried telling her that you don’t appreciate those types of comments? (which if they are actually negative, even if said with the i’m-just-joking nonsense, you should). Because really it’s obvious that you don’t completely trust your BF around this girl, and without any more specifics it kinda sounds like you’re funneling that distrust to her because it’s easier to blame someone who you don’t like than your relationship.

    I’ve had friends (past tense) that thought saying mean-ish things followed by “I’m joking!” was actually funny. Not people I wanted to spend time with after so long, but their negative comments were cast at basically everyone, so taking offense would just be foolish – they were just projecting their low self esteem onto others. I’ve also had guy friend’s girlfriends dislike me because I said the exact same thing as someone else (“why hasn’t so-and-so come back from the bathroom yet?” “oh, you know him, he found a mirror and is making sure his hair looks perfect. I’m sure he won’t mind if we order drinks before he gets back.” (true)), but I was the guy’s ex-girlfriend, so obviously if I said something that the new GF didn’t like then I was trying to ruin their relationship (when seriously, *zero* remaining romantic interest or residual weirdness on either of our parts.)

    I’m just saying that it’s obvious you don’t actually trust your BF, and it’s unclear whether you’re blaming this girl because you just don’t like her much (and are uncomfortable with your BF being friends with a woman you don’t like), or if there is some legitimate inappropriate flirting going on between them. And those two text messages really don’t signal inappropriate to me. I mean, if you find them inappropriate that’s fine to say they are, but I know plenty of people, and have had friends myself, where there is plenty of completely innocent but pseudo-flirty interactions going on, and until a significant other says they’re not comfortable with that, then there’s really nothing wrong with it, and it’s not fair to ban your boyfriend from seeing this girl just because you don’t understand their friendship and won’t give him a chance to eliminate the interactons that are reasonably objectionable.

    So going under the assumption that your BF is trustworthy (ie, this girl may be annoying and a flirt, but there’s nothing so obviously out of line that it’s worrisome your BF doesn’t ditch her), if you did fully trust him then it shouldn’t matter to you that one of his friends’ hobbies is fishing for compliments. And instead of writing in to an advice column about not trusting this girl (which honestly just means you don’t trust your BF…around her) and how you’ve already made rules about how often he can socialize with her, you would have told him that it bugs you when he calls her cute (and since we’re assuming he’s trustworthy, he would have stopped doing so), and that would be the end of the story.

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  • avatar

    DMR June 12, 2012, 8:56 am

    This letter is one of the easiest ever.
    This relationship is so over. Stick a fork in it, because it’s done.

    Let’s recap.
    1. You’re preparing to be “long distance” and will reunite when it’s all over. Yeah, okay, could happen. Realistically, no it won’t but hey anything’s possible.
    2. Another woman wants your guy, and she has form.
    3. The other woman will be living in the same city as your guy.
    4. your guy thinks the other woman is cute, and sends her flirtatious text messages
    5. He already plans to be best friends with her and hang out with her lots.

    The mind boggles that anyone could think this is a salvageable situation. He wants her. He’s going to be hanging out with her every frickin day. And she wants him. And you won’t be there.

    As for the “white knight” complex, come on. Admit it, that’s your last ditch attempt to tell yourself it’s all okay. Every guy has that. The whole “white knight” schtick is either your own rationalizations for what’s happening, or a slick sales pitch he’s thrown to blind you to what’s going on.

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  • avatar

    Butterfly26 June 14, 2012, 8:02 am

    I had a similar experience, the girl in question was waaay to needy and attention seeking for my comfort, and also a little unhinged. The best advice I can give is to ‘give her rope’ she will eventually hang herself, mine did, and since then she has not been a feature.

    It was tough while she was still around, it was so hard not to get really overtly protective, and flip out when she started with her ‘promise to hang out, just the two of us’ rubbish, but every time I would just remind myself that if I acted crazy, then she would most likely have the ‘in’ she was looking for, and I would run the risk of losing the amazing relationship I have with my own ‘white knight’ 🙂

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  • avatar

    Quirkyrosa October 11, 2012, 11:43 am

    I agree, she should trust as much as she can but if her worries continue, she should MOA. One big red flag is that across the 5 years P has been dramatic, seeking attention and making the LW look bad, she also has a history of stealing bfs. Why is he still friends with her, even when she makes his gf LW feel bad? I have a feeling he still has feelings for P. Time will show whether in fact he is trustworthy or he has feelings for P and LW should leave. It happened to me. I had a bf whom everything was great for 2 years of dating. X was his buddy, she had a boyfriend, whom she cheated on and he broke up with her during this time. I really did not know her history, until she started needing my then bf’s attention, calling him for hours, meeting him one on one, etc. I also discussed it with him and we placed boundaries to which he said she was just a needy girl and for me to pay no mind. He also confirmed that X loved male attention and that even if she made a move on him, he would never go for it. He even added that in the past he had a crush on her but eventually he realized she was a big cheating selfish woman. Well, he never stopped meeting with her one on one in my back after he said he would not. Eventually, my insecurities grew wild. After 6 more months of dating my life became hell, I should have MOA after he broke the rule 3 time (I give people chances). However, I too thought he had a saving friends complex (he always came to my rescue in my low times). Well, in the end after so many arguments he admitted he had feelings for her and added that he dreamed about being with her, etc, so he broke up with me. He told me he was sorry but he didn’t realize how strong his feelings were for her until then. Eventually, X met a new guy and no longer needed his attention; this is when he tried to be friends with me again. There were other things that happened that made me cut him off from my life. I didn’t look back and become his friends. My big lesson MOA when you’re feeling insecure about your bf’s female friend.

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