“He Didn’t Think I Was Skinny Enough”

I’m 31 and met a man almost four years younger than me on a dating site. I’m a divorced single mom, so I know my looks aren’t what they use to be. Anyway, we connected so well, it was like we became best friends in a short amount of time. We became intimate and of course it was pretty amazing; everything seemed to be going well, except for one thing: he never took me anywhere. When I finally brought it up, he claimed he thought we were just FWB, which wasn’t the case, and that he was attracted to me and liked me a lot, but couldn’t be with me due to the fact that I wasn’t “skinny enough.”

I know I’m not skinny, but I don’t consider myself fat. I’m a size 12, and I’m curvy more than anything. I’ve struggled with my weight my whole life, and suddenly I felt like I was 21 again being judged for stupid little things. He begged me to continue sleeping with him and be his friend. I ended up sleeping with him once which was a disaster for me, and I tried to be his friend. He didn’t want to let me go, but yet he wanted to keep me a dirty little secret. Finally, it ended because he met someone that was perfectly skinny for him. This has really affected my self-esteem, and how I “put myself out there” and meeting other men. How can I change this? Is hope lost for women who aren’t skin and bones? Was this man truly embarrassed by me? — Not Skinny Enough for Him

Here’s what happened: this guy was not into you/ attracted to you enough to make you his girlfriend — or even take you out on a date — but you were good enough to relieve a little sexual tension while he waited for someone he did like. Does that mean that every guy you’re going meet is like that? Hell, no! Does that mean that every guy out there has a similar preference for skinny women? No! There are plenty of men for whom a size 12 — or whatever your size — is a perfect turn-on. But you’re only going to be a good match for them and good girlfriend material if you work on your self-esteem first.

How do you do that? You can start by measuring your value not by guys’ interest in you, but by your accomplishments, positive qualities, and the friendships and relationships you’ve cultivated over the years. If you’re feeling insecure about your looks, get a post-divorce “makeover” to boost your mood. Hit the salon and update your hairdo and color. Book a massage. Get your nails done. Schedule an appointment with your dentist and get a good cleaning or even some whitening if you think you need it. Ask a good friend or two to go shopping with you to help you pick out a couple new outfits that make you feel good about yourself. Join a gym or fitness class and focus on health not weight. Exercise releases feel-good endorphins that boost one’s mood and self-esteem. Smile more — smile at yourself in the mirror and smile at strangers on the street. Smiles are like a natural facelift, shedding years from your age and making you look warm and approachable. Once you feel more confident about your looks, take a few new photos for your dating profile.

Most important, don’t shy away from “putting yourself out there” because of one dumb guy. There are going to be lots of dumb guys out there who will use you and take advantage of you if you let them, but for every one them, there are many wonderful, genuine guys who want to get to know you and take you out and treat you well. Don’t miss out on all the opportunities you could have with any of them just because you feel a little burned by some dude you knew for a few weeks. That’s lame. And quit sleeping with guys who don’t have don’t respect you as a person. Believe that you are too good for that because you are.

*If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com and be sure to follow me on Twitter. ]=[


  1. Hell no!!! You are fantabulous as you are, you do not need to change! I am a size twelve too and I’ve always struggled with my weight. I have closet a full of clothes that are a dress size too small and I’m often talking about dropping ten pounds to get into them, but my boyfriend says he loves my ass and please don’t lose too much weight.

    So yes, there are men out there who will be attracted to you as you are. If you are happy, do NOT change yourself for a man and do NOT let one man’s idea of what’s attractive make you value yourself less.

    1. Painted_lady says:

      I second this, MissDre! My boyfriend made me promise when I got onto latest fitness kick that I wouldn’t do a thing to my ass. He’s said that’s the only part of my body he has strong feelings about one way or the other, and since his strong feelings are in favor of my keeping a little weight on, I’m perfectly fine with it.

    2. Calliopedork says:

      My bf is the same way we’ve been exercising together and whenever I do something that may slim my butt he starts tsking at me

      1. Wait, how do you focus your weight-losing in certain areas, so as not to affect your butt? I thought that when you lose, you lose it from all over. You don’t get to choose, your body does. Because I’m bigger on bottom and smaller on top, and I always lose weight on top first, which obviously sucks because it makes me even more of a pear. If there are exercises where you lose from thighs/butt and nowhere else, let me at them!

      2. Calliopedork says:

        Brazil butt lift and leg lifting. You will lose general weight but those areas will tone more

      3. Oh, ok. 🙁 Yeah, that still doesn’t help me much because my boobs always disappear when I start exercising, and no matter how toned my bottom half gets, it’s still big. And when I say my boobs disappear, I mean smaller than an A cup. At one point in my life I actually was up to a B cup, but wanted to trim my waist. I worked out hard for like 6 months, boobs went totally away, waist stayed the exact same. 🙁 I ended up looking worse than before. I know this is off topic, but if anyone has good tips for my scenario, I’m all ears. I did try doing a lot of upper-arm/chest exercises, to tone the muscles underneath the breasts, but when there’s absolutely nothing on top of them it still doesn’t look good.

      4. I’ll throw this one out there, but do keep in mind that everyone is different. All the toning exercises you were doing for your chest *might* have increased your weight loss in that area. A lot of where people lose weight is determined by genetics, but my friends and I have noticed that we can influence it somewhat by what areas we train the most.

      5. RoyalEagle0408 says:

        That depends on your definition of what looks “good”. Some of the most beautiful women I know are barely As.

    3. I’m normally underweight, and now that I’m pregnant and have put on some baby fat, my husband can’t keep his hands off my ass! He’s going to be so sad when it all turns into breastmilk…

      1. Anonymous says:

        No he won’t! He’ll just have something else to hold on to. 😉

      2. Notice I said “turns into breastmilk“. I said absolutely nothing about anything happening to the size of my breasts. 🙁

      3. Painted_lady says:

        Okay, I read that very quickly, and I was VEEEERRRRY confused for a second. Like, wait, that’s not where breastmilk comes from! confused.

    4. Ha! My bf says the samething. Anytime I compare myself to anyone he goes on and on about how much he loves my ass. If I try to shrink it, he threatens to force feed me burgers until it’s back to where he likes it. Definitely helps me feel confident! And, trust me, there are plenty of guys out there who LOVE that. Don’t change for anyone but yourself.

    5. neuroticbeagle says:

      “So your girlfriend rolls a Honda, playin’ workout tapes by Fonda
      But Fonda ain’t got a motor in the back of her Honda
      My anaconda don’t want none
      Unless you’ve got buns, hun
      You can do side bends or sit-ups,
      But please don’t lose that butt”

      1. Exactly what I was thinking!!

  2. Landygirl says:

    Basically, this dude is a choad and was trying to pawn his issues with weight onto you. He was using you then tried to make you feel guility for it. MOA and don’t look back, you’ll find the right one for you.

    1. I’m so glad to see someone finally had the lady balls to use the phrase ‘choad’.


      1. Love the lady balls comment! 🙂

  3. LW, I’m so sorry a guy treated you this rotten 🙁 I know how one guy can do something horrible and then it sets off a chain reaction of insecurities in yourself. I would follow Wendy’s advice of a post-divorce makeover to increase your confidence, and then put yourself out there again! You will meet the right guy eventually, but I always say that you may have to go through a lot of crappy men to meet a great one, but that one is really really great and totally worth it. And just to insure that a guy respects you and isn’t using you for sex, make sure that your first (and subsequent) meetings are actually dates.

  4. LW, it’s very possible this guy WAS attracted to you. Very attracted to you. BUT, because of stupid expectations of his friends/society, he felt like he had to show up in public with a skinnier woman. He wasn’t man enough to say “this is who I want to fuck and you all can just deal with it.”

    I don’t know if that helps you, because it still means he was a douche, but he was an immature douche. Fortunately there are more mature men who a) know what they want and b) don’t care what other people think.

    And don’t forget, confidence (even if you have to fake it) is the sexiest thing of all.

    1. Yes! The man enough thing. I was trying to find those words. A guy with confidence, who doesn’t feel like he has to impress people, is not going to care if you don’t look like the “ideal woman”. And that guy is the guy you want.

  5. lemongrass says:

    That guy was a straight-up jackass. Don’t let his issues create more for you! As a size 10 myself, previously a 16, the right guy will love you for you, not your body. My husband proposed to me at my heaviest with no diet in plan at that time, because its who you are inside that matters.

    1. For real, my best friend is probably 80-100 pounds overweight and she’s been on and off diets for as long as I’ve known her and yet all her husband worries about is whether or not she’s happy. He couldn’t care less about her size! And yes, she was that big when met her and he STILL wanted to marry her! Because he was attracted to her and he loves her.

      1. lemongrass says:

        No kidding. I was actually an 8 when my husband and I started dating. I ballooned and he never said a word. He didn’t think it was his place to critize. In hindsight, I told him to say something if I did it again, because it was unhealthy.

  6. SpaceySteph says:

    What a jerk! LW its understandable that you are having some self esteem issues- it must be difficult to get divorced and have to put yourself back out there.

    But just because it didn’t work out with your ex husband, and because you met one douchenozzle on a dating site, doesn’t mean that there aren’t men who will find you attractive and like you for you and who want more substance than skeleton.

    You just have to keep looking. And in the meantime, explore all the wonderful things about you. Are you a good cook? Are you a good mom? Do you like rock climbing or running or painting? I am sure there are plenty of good things about you… keep developing your interests, exploring your talents, and don’t worry about what guys might think of your appearance. Your life is about so much more than what a random guy on the internet thinks of you.

  7. Turtledove says:

    You. Are. Not. Fat.

    Ok, now that that’s out of my system. I’m a size 16. I’m not fat, I’ll be fat when I can’t bend over and look at my toes. Trust me, I take off my shirt and my husband is not looking at my belly or my muffin top or whatever other flaw I perceive in myself. When you’re with a good guy who is genuinely attracted to you, he’s not going to mind the saggy bits or squishy spots because 1. he’s not looking for your flaws and 2. he’s got plenty of his own (and is really hoping you don’t complain about the back hair) You quasi dated a skeez and you have my sympathies. But, you need to make peace with your body. Take a dance class or a yoga class– something to get you moving and thinking not about what your body looks like, but all the wonderful things it can do. When you can walk around at whatever size you happen to be and not care about your size, you will never fall prey to this type of man again.

    1. SpaceySteph says:

      Ooh try yoga! I just started yoga… the class has such a diverse group, young women, older women, chubby women, skinny women. Everyone was so nice and friendly and not judgy. Not at all the way I feel walking into an LA Fitness. Yoga rocks.

      1. I do yoga AT LA Fitness. Whoa!

      2. SpaceySteph says:

        Bummer… my former LA fitness didn’t have yoga, just a bunch of beefy dudes and skinny girls. Now I run outside and do yoga at a private studio and don’t ever have to look at ridiculous beefy dudes grunting at their reflections.

      3. I do Yoga at LA Fitness too!! WOW

    2. Thirding the yoga! It’s all inwardly focused, and as you get stronger and more flexible you’ll appreciate your body even more. Plus, it’s a stress reliever.

    3. I definitely agree; I am a size 14 with curvy thighs a full C-cup…my boyfriend is definitely turned on when I take it off! When we met, I was very skinny (for me) at about a size 7 and he actually didn’t think I was as attractive because I had very little in the thighs and butt and hardly any boobs. He has actually grown more attracted to me as I’ve “grown.”

      LW, the boy you encountered was very immature and you should never EVER judge your own value based on what an asshole guy has to say!!

      1. Why the thumbs down? I didn’t say I purposely gained weight…my average size has always been around 14 except for the one year right before I met my bf when I ate nothing but grilled chicken salads and ran every day…it was a pretty miserable year. When it comes down to it, I’m a foodie.

  8. I’m sure you’re aware that the only women with boyfriends or dates are not “skin and bones”. Lots of things are easier for people that 100% fit the mold of what society tells us is perfect and hot, but that hardly means that all hope is dashed for the extreme majority who don’t. While in the dating pool, everyone is going to run into someone that doesn’t like something about them. I can’t even imagine how exhausting it would be to try to change all of those little things for any dude that comes along rather than just realizing that you aren’t a match and moving on to the next.

  9. Also, it amazes me that there are guys out there that say these kinds of things to women. Whatever happened to, ‘I’m sorry, I just don’t think we’re a romantic match’ or ‘I’m not looking for anything serious’? There are euphemisms for these types of situations, people! I know everyone hates it when guys do the fade out, but if this BS is what they’re all keeping inside, I’d rather they just disappear.

    1. As a previous comment suggested I think he was using it as a way to make her feel guilty and still continue to have sex with her, rather than break it off, until he found someone that fit his description…absolutely the mature and best way to handle it would have been to just state you weren’t a match, but this guy is a shit bag.

  10. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:

    I’m going to get flamed for this.

    Yes, the guy the LW wrote in about was jerking her around, and treating her less like a human being that a pressure release valve. That sucks. Yes, different men have different tastes when it comes to how curvy/skinny the women they are attracted to are.
    I get that, I agree.

    But can we please PLEASE stop perpetuating the unhealthy myth that anyone who loves you will love you regardless of how you take care of yourself? That’s not true for men, and it’s not true for women either. I categorically do NOT mean that there is a set size that someone needs to be in order to deserve love, but taking care of your health, taking care of your attractiveness is something you should feel compelled to do if you love the other person. No one should stop loving you because you put on a pound, but no one should be expected to love you unconditionally regardless of how over/underweight you may become. Expecting unconditional devotion sets up your partner for failure.

    Someone who loves you will try to overlook many of your flaws, but that willingness on the part of your lover to round you up the perfect doesn’t mean you are.

    1. SpaceySteph says:

      If the LW wrote in to say she weighed 500 pounds and had to be craned off her couch to go on this date with this jerk, I might admit you have a point.

      But being a size 12 is not a flaw. And I fully advocate finding someone who will find you sexy at size 12 or 14 or 16, because they exist. It doesn’t mean you can’t lose a few pounds, it doesn’t mean license to eat nothing but cheese doodles and ho hos because your boyfriend loves you fat or skinny. But it does mean that you shouldn’t feel like you have to be a size 2 to be sexy.

      Also I think that the desire to want your SO to take care of themselves is admirable. Lord knows I encourage my boyfriend to get his ass up off the couch and come running with me even though its hot and we’re tired. Its not because I want to see him skinny, I just want him to be healthy so we can live longer together. And thats something people who love each other do. But the LW and this guy were not at that stage, and he has no clue (and neither do the rest of us) if she takes care of herself or not. Not everyone who is healthy will be skinny.

      1. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:

        And I totally agree that you shouldn’t have to be a size 2 to feel sexy. This guy wasn’t going to respect the LW no matter what size she is.

        I just get bothered when in reaction to the unfair beauty standards that are imposed on women, we respond with an attitude that any body criticism is unwarranted. That if someone loves you, they can no longer judge whether or not you are attractive. That ONLY what is inside counts. Women don’t treat men that way. The way a man looks, MATTERS. His hygiene MATTERS.

        I don’t think the LW has a problem with either of those examples (how would I?) and she is CLEARLY not the problem here. He is. I just don’t like knee-jerk cultures that lack nuance.

      2. robottapocalypse says:

        “This guy wasn’t going to respect the LW no matter what size she is.”
        This is sooooooo true. She should take some time to see what she’s hunting for and how she’s advertising it.

        I hear the women here calling for Kate Harding to appear. There are fetish sites for this kind of thing. I suggest the LW go to those for dating. You will find men with similar values, and that matters in this compartment. Men who value your size will value you for it.

        But, don’t expect really fit guys to want you unless they have a fetish for it. If you can’t keep up with him physically, you won’t be able to do the things he enjoys doing or share physical activities which would be a heartbreaking disadvantage for long-term dating a fit person. Fit people rarely stay that way by sitting around.

        Finally, I totally agree that investment in the things about yourself that your spouse values is an investment in the relationship. Picking someone who values you for who you are and who you can be is key. You won’t get anywhere picking someone who can’t value you from the start.

      3. Um, I respectfully disagree. She may be able to “keep up with a “fit” person”, afterall, she stated her size, not her work out plan or eating habits. She isn’t even close to the fetish point. Usually men looking for that are looking for 260 lbs plus.

        People come in all shapes and sizes, metabolizism changes through out people’s lifetime (especially with women.) Come to think of it, she didn’t even say that she wanted “a real fit person”. I think she is just looking for some one to care about her.

      4. SpaceySteph says:

        Agree with you Jenwaw. A size 12 is a normal person with a not terribly unhealthy weight, not a fetish item.
        I oscillate between a size 10 and a size 12, however I run 2-3 miles 4 times a week, play softball, am getting into yoga, eat semi-healthy. I’m not exactly a cow. While I could not start dating a marathon runner tomorrow and keep up with him for 26 miles, if he actually liked me for me and hung around long enough, I could train myself up to that level.

        The idea that a fit person would only date a size 12 because he had a fetish for fat chicks is ridiculous. Maybe he would like her for her intelligence or personality. Replace size 12 with size 20 and you MAY have a point. MAY. But there’s more to compatibility than appearance.

    2. Looking after yourself is part of loving yourself. Nobody’s saying, gain 100 pounds and it doesn’t matter. I think people just mean, whatever your body/fitness/health goals are… do it because you love yourself, not because you’re afraid somebody else won’t love you.

      1. robottapocalypse says:

        loving someone, and being interested in having sex with them are two incredibly different things.

        I love my brother, but would never have sex with him. I love my best friend bubba, but I wouldn’t have sex with him….

    3. I don’t think anyone was perpetuating that myth in this particular thread. Never did Wendy say that this guy is an ass because he didn’t like her figure. She simply said that there are guys that will, while suggesting that she look into taking better care of herself to boost her self-esteem. At a size 12, I really don’t think health is an issue at this point.

      1. neuroticbeagle says:

        I had to give you a purple thumb at this because depending on certain factors like genes and height, a size twelve can cause health problems. I was a size twelve when the doctor told me to lose weight because I am only five foot tall and the extra fat was exasterbating a certain health condition that I am genetically predisposed to having. (thanks mom and dad )

        I know that no where in LW’s letter is this implied, we have no way of knowing how healthy she is, but I wanted to throw it out there that there is such a thing as an unhealthy size 12.

      2. Exactly.And being 145 pounds for one person,depending on their height,might be considered fine.But for another person’s height,it’s considered too heavy/skinny.

      3. Britannia says:

        I was about to say the same thing. We don’t know how tall the LW is or what her BMI is.

        For all we know, she’s 4′ 9″ and a size 12 in women’s, which is NOT healthy no matter how you swing it. Just like being 6′ 0″ and a size 0 is not healthy.

      4. But I don’t think there was anything in the letter to indicate that health was an issue. She said she was a size 12, and “more curvy than anything”. This really doesn’t imply obesity.

      5. neuroticbeagle says:

        I did not say that she was obese. In fact, I mentioned that I had absolutely no clue as to what the LW’s health status is; I wasn’t talking about the LW.

        I took exception to your blanket statement that because someone is a size 12 they are probably a healthy weight. Some people who are a size twelve are a healthy weight, others are not.

        I do not believe that a dress size determines whether someone is a healthy weight or not, especially since dress sizes can vary depending on the type of clothing, the style of the clothing and certainly the store in which the clothing was bought.

      6. RoyalEagle0408 says:

        I completely agree because I’m in the category of “If I was a size 12, I would be obese”.

      7. I just think its weird that people are making this into a “health” issue when there is nothing in the letter that would suggest she has any health problems whatsoever in regards to her weight.

    4. Calliopedork says:

      That only applies to someone who loves you and who you love back. As a love partner u should take care of your health and appearance. Your love partner does have a right to let you know if you’ve let yourself go and the attraction is waning. It is unfair to expect your partner to keep wanting to screw you if you have drastically altered your appearance in a bad way. But the lw is the same size as when she met dickface so he is just a douche. You shouldnt screw people you find too ugly to be seen with.

      1. ForeverYoung says:

        That you, Calliopedork, that is exactly what I was going to say. No you should not let someone you love pick up unhealthy habits, but that doesn’t apply here. This guy clearly didn’t love her, so it’s not his place to discuss her health habits.

  11. silver_dragon_girl says:

    Incoming simile…

    OK, LW, listen up. Guys are like chocolate. This guy, this douchebag/tool/jerk/d*ck/rotten excuse for an adult male, is like that crappy “chocolate-flavored coating” they put in cheap candy. It doesn’t taste very good and it only satisfies your chocolate craving for as long as you can delude yourself that it’s actually chocolate. After like 20 minutes you realize how yucky it is and want something better. BUT! Since it’s been a while since you had some real Belgian goodness, you fixate on the cheapo stuff and convince yourself that you need more of it.

    There is WAY better chocolate out there. What do you want? Cake? Cookies? Solid candy? Light? Dark? Ice cream? With nuts (I would hope, but…)? Without nuts?

    There are a zillion types of chocolate out there. MORE THAN ONE OF THEM will no doubt satisfy you. But not the cheap shit from the dollar store. You deserve WAY better. Girlfriend, I have dated, exclusively from dating sites, for the past 2.5 years, and my weight has fluctuated during that time. I can guarantee you that there are no more Toblerone bars at a size 8 than there were at a size 14. And no fewer, either 🙂

    1. ahhh i love this!!! not only because i love chocolate, but because its so true!! and to take it a little further- you dont have to try very hard to find cheap chocolate, its all over, in a lot of candies. but to find the real, real good chocolate, the nice 70% straight from belguim stuff, you have to sift through all the crap chocolate. and once you taste it, you will be completely satisfied and will never even think about crap chocolate again.

  12. ugh, if anyone should be embarrassed here it should be you for being with such a total tool! who cares what this loser thinks! go out and find a real man, not some shallow pathetic loser (who probably didn’t look like Brad Pitt himself!)! sorry my comments usually have a little rage mixed in as I write them while at work and in a cranky mood 😛

  13. Painted_lady says:

    LW, I absolutely agree with Wendy and all the commenters that you’re not fat and you need to make an effort to rebuild your self-esteem and be happy with yourself. They’ve all said it way better than me. Find some physical activity you love, be it dance, yoga, roller derby, whatever, and sticking with it and watching yourself progress both in skill and in physical well-being will do wonders for your self-esteem. Make the effort in your appearance that you deserve.

    One other thing, though, and I want it to be clear I am NOT judging you for inadvertently being this doucheapotamus’ FWB: don’t accept casual sex when what you really want is a relationship. A lot of women – myself formerly included in this group, which is why I can’t judge – want to be “cool” or not like other girls who only want a commitment, or whatever it is. We’re taught to be accommodating and gracious, and sometimes that means we feel like we should be grateful for whatever we can get. I know he didn’t overtly say you were FWB, but the fact that he never took you on a real date should, in future, be completely unacceptable. Lesson learned, and expect and demand better for yourself. No one is going to treat you better than you feel like you deserve, and you gotta own that you absolutely deserve a man who actually wants *you.*

    1. silver_dragon_girl says:

      Loud “seconded” to your second paragraph. That is one thing I have struggled with a lot– the desire to NOT be that stereotypical clingy girl who just wants to get married and have babies. And yet…I do want a long-term relationship, with the ultimate goal of having a family. So shouldn’t I be able to ask for that?

      LW, hold out for what YOU want. If you want to date without sex, that is FINE. If you want to hook up without dating, that is fine, too! Or anything in between. Do NOT be afraid or ashamed of asking for what you want.

      Closed mouths don’t get fed.

      1. “Closed mouths don’t get fed” LOVE THIS!

    2. Definitely agree with you. It sounds like, in the future, she should take a little more time to establish the nature of a guy’s interest before introducing sex into the equation. Nothing is guaranteed in the world of dating, but it should lower the risk for a repeat of this situation.

    3. neuroticbeagle says:


      I nominate this as the best word on the thread.

  14. This made me so, so sad. I’m about your age, and divorced as well, and a size 10-12 (but probably a 16-20 in my head and when I look in the mirror). I’m glad your question wasn’t about how to starve yourself so you COULD be skinny enough for him or for what you think other guys might want. I hope you’re able to hold on to that healthy body image even in the face of this rejection. You certainly dodged a bullet there, whether you realized it at the time or not. Good luck!

    1. Britannia says:

      Just a side note – you do NOT have to “starve yourself” in order to become skinny. Not all skinny girls are starving. I hate that bias just as much as I hate the bias that all fat people are slobs.

      Calorie intake > calorie expenditure = fatter. Calorie intake < calorie expenditure = thinner. That does NOT always equate to being a glutton OR starving.

  15. That guy? Is an ass. End of story. From personal experience, I can assure you that lots of guys love curvy women.

    Also, what Wendy said.

  16. The way to get better at “putting yourself out there” is by realizing that the problem here wasn’t you (except for the part where you slept with him that last time, but we’ll get to that in a minute) the problem here is that this man is NOT a God, contrary to his belife, that determines the beauties from the fuglies! Of course, hearing something like that is not exactly easy to forget, but why would you want to be with someone who would actually utter those words to you? I think this guy & the previous LW would’ve been a great match! A guy with class would a) not judge you solely on what the ticket on the back of your pants says & b) if he wasn’t so interested & felt there wasn’t that attraction there would break things off in a completely different way.
    You need to be thankful you didn’t waste another second with this low-life creep & try really hard to cast those encounters aside as “psssh HIS problem!”
    Trust me, do what Wendy says, go get a makeover, hit the gym if you want, & once you are really really happy & confident that will totally radiate out into the universe & you will find a REAL man!

  17. ForeverYoung says:

    The thing about self esteem is that you have to understand it is all in your head. It is not real, it is only how you perceive yourself. So you just need to get a better attitude. You have to realize that this guy was a jerk and all that other stuff everyone above has said. But him being a jerk won’t give you any higher self esteem, so you have to start working on yourself.

    Do things that make you happy. Like Wendy said, get a pedicure, buy a new dress, work out, whatever makes you happy and feel like you’re beautiful and worthy of love – do those things.

    I don’t know if my little story will help, but i’ll share it in case it does. I used to be a size 12. I am only 5’1, so that was fatter than I needed to be, but I only weighed about 145. I was depressed and overall just didn’t feel good about myself, so I didn’t eat for a couple months (slight exageration – I obviously ate, but only about 700 calories a day for two months straight) and lost about 25 pouds. Now I am a size 4.

    I still have the EXACT SAME ISSUES AS BEFORE. Now i’m self conscious because when people who haven’t seen me in a while tell me I look great I wonder if that means before they thought I was a huge fat ass and now only talk to me because I am what many people (not celebrities obviously) would consider a great size to be at. Having low self esteem affects people of all shapes and sizes. I’m only telling you this so you realize these self esteem issues are in your head, not stored in fat. If you lose the weight you aren’t going to magically be super confident. You didn’t mention wanting to lose weight specifically, so i’m sorry if this isn’t helpful to you, I just want you to realize you need to work on making yourself happy.

    When I first told my husband that I was going on a diet he told me to be careful and not lose too much because he loved my muscular legs, big boobs, and curvy stomach. He said it made me look like a woman. Now that I am quite smaller (I swear when you’re this short you can lose 5 pounds and lose 2 dress sizes) he still loves the way I look. The point is that with the right guy, you will be perfect no matter what size you’re at. Find someone who loves who you are inside, so that when your outsides change with age, weight loss, weight gain, whatever, they will love you all the same.

    1. You are so right about the self-esteem issue. All the pretty girls that I have envied before probably have the exact same issues as me. My childhood best friend is a perfect example: slender, busty, blonde. Yet she stayed in an awful relationship for two years with someone who made her feel like dirt because she couldn’t accept she deserved better. It took meeting her now-husband to realize what she was missing. Most woman go through this, and it is not truly tied to how we look.

    2. SpaceySteph says:

      “these self esteem issues are in your head, not stored in fat. If you lose the weight you aren’t going to magically be super confident.”

      Hah I love that! Could become my new mantra: “Body issues are not stored in fat!”

      I had a similar problem you describe. In my junior year of college I decided to get healthy (note: not skinny) but in the process I lost about 30 pounds and about 4 pant sizes. And then when I met guys after that, I was always afraid to get involved with them. I mean obviously they only wanted me because I was “pretty” now, and if they knew the real me, the fat me, then they wouldn’t like me anymore. Nevermind that “pretty” is not exclusively defined by pant size. Nevermind that they hadn’t even known me when I was fat and therefore couldn’t possibly say whether they would have liked me then. I KNEW that I was only attractive because I was skinnier and so none of these boys could love me for me.

      It took me YEARS to figure out that its not about my pant size and never was.

      1. ForeverYoung says:

        Thank you I’m glad you thought that was clever! I thought so and was starting to get sad that no one else was appreciating it! 🙂 at size 12 She is not obese yet and I think since she has a realistic view point (admitting she’s not what she once was) as soon as she gets her self esteem in check then she can work on other things she can do to better herself

  18. Size 12 is a very nice size. Post-divorce is a difficult time and regaining self-esteem may take a little while. You dated a complete jerk. Two things to ask yourself: 1) why did you wait until he dumped you instead of stalking out as soon as he said you weren’t skinny enough to be seen in public with 2) what attracted you to him in the first place and how do you want to recalibrate your criteria for guys you date more than once. Avoid desperation, you should expect to have to sift through a lot of guys before you find the right one for you. Things will get better.

    1. BigRedYouSay? says:

      “why did you wait until he dumped you instead of stalking out as soon as he said you weren’t skinny enough to be seen in public with”

      LW: No more dating for you until you’ve found your self worth. Self worth would have made you shed those excess pounds of which that man consisted the second he inflicted his assiness upon you. Listen to Wendy and the other commenters, please, and don’t waste another minute wondering if you’re skinny enough to date.

      1. Thumbs up for the use of “assiness”.

  19. Astronomer says:

    I want to jump on the “some dudes like bigger girls” bandwagon with a happy story of my own, because I can totally relate to the feelings the LW is expressing here.

    True story: I met my boyfriend on the internet, I’m 30, a size 12/14, and we cannot stop having sex with each other. He’s ridiculously hot for my brain and my curves AND my wobbly bits, just like I’m ridiculously hot for his brain and his beard and his pot belly. Like, sometimes we’ll try to go out to eat, but we’ll get distracted touching each others’ faces, and the next thing you know, we’re doing it ten ways from Tuesday.

    That’s not to say we don’t have mutual love and respect and dates. We have those things, too, and the sex would get old if we didn’t. But I’ll be darned if we can’t read in bed together for more than four minutes before the sexy times take over. The funny thing is that I used to be very, very pretty when I younger, and now I’m starting to look my age. (Gravity always wins, darn it!) But the majority of my relationships when I was a hot young thing didn’t have this kind of passion, and if they did, it certainly didn’t last.

    Trust me, LW, there will be a man in your future who makes you feel beautiful and sexy just for being you, and he won’t be afraid to let you know. The trick is to not waste any time or headspace on the ones who waffle about what they want or make you feel like less than yourself. Believing that you’re worthy of being with a man who makes you feel this way is the first and and most important step, because otherwise, you’ll keep settling for punks like your most recent ex. All the things Wendy and the others suggest will help you get there.

  20. This sentence jumped out at me:

    “I’m a divorced single mom, so I know my looks aren’t what they use to be.”

    Which part is supposed to have diminished her looks? The divorced, the single or the mom? It almost looks like she thinks the divorce must mean she’s ugly, or “damaged goods” or whatever. Buck up! As others have said, this guy was a jerk – don’t let him or your ex define who you are.

    1. BriarRose says:

      Thank you for bringing that up! I’m a divorced, 31 year old single mom (just like the LW) and while I don’t look like I did at 21, it has nothing to do with being divorced or a mom!

  21. caitie_didn't says:

    Ugh, this dude sounds like a total ass hat. You’re well rid of him!

    I feel bad for the girl he eventually dates/marries and then dumps her the second her post-baby body doesn’t match the size 2 body she had when they first met.

  22. Honey – he’s a dick. Plain and simple. He wanted instant gratification and he didn’t care where it came from. If you had dropped him like a bad habit as soon as you learned his “dirty little secret” (which wasn’t you, it was the fact that he has no respect for a woman’s body), then he would have moved on to another woman until Ms. Skin’n’Bones came along. When she gains a bit of weight, he’ll either put up, shut up, or move on. Period. He’s a self-serving dick and when push comes to shove, he’ll be at the “self-serve” pump later in life when all the women get as old as he does and none of them are his “ideal” and the younger ones won’t touch him because of his age (assuming he doesn’t change his opinions).

    You are fine. Curvy is fine. I’m finally curvy after 4 kids. At first I was just a string bean. After 1 I was still a string bean, at 2 and 3 – top heavy. I was glad to get curves. Sure – it’s a pain sometime trying to find clothes that fit right, but I’d rather be curvy than be a stick.

  23. LW, I’m so sorry that you had to meet this toolbox. He didn’t deserve you, and I hope he finds Ms. Toolbox to keep him company while staying waif-thin. I’m a size 12 too. I’ve also dated online. I’m pretty sure that some first dates ended because of my size and the guys just weren’t attracted. But here’s the awesome thing: If they hadn’t passed on me, I wouldn’t have met my boyfriend. I’d be stuck in some dating circle with guys that don’t appreciate me and my size. I wouldn’t have this great man that tells me I’m beautiful and when I mention dieting gives me a weird look and says “just don’t lose the boobs or the butt…”
    You deserve someone that will look at you with genuine amazement and appreciation.
    I suggest taking Wendy’s advice and doing something nice for yourself, to boost your confidence a bit, and then get back out there. The guy for you will love you just as you are, and won’t want to be a FWB.
    Good luck!

  24. I want to reach out to you because this is exactly the kind of jerks I used to date. I was used to thinking that they were all I deserve cause I was fat/ugly. Finally one day, I got fed up with the bullshit and quit all the dating sites I was on. I have trouble believing people find lasting connections on dating sites because it seems that people there are so superficial.

    What hobbies and interests do you have? Don’t go out with the intention of finding someone to date but just to have fun for yourself. While you have fun pursuing your interest, people may or may not notice you. It’s a chance you take. What did people do to meet each other in the days before the internet?

    I realized that this may not be the advice you’re looking for, but the bottom line is: Don’t rely on dating sites for meeting people.

    Also, I’m a size 22 and I found a guy who is absolutely perfect for me. Actually, he found me. We used to work together and he always saw me every day no matter what the state of my appearance, weight gain, weight loss, short hair, long hair, etc, etc. After I left that job, purely by chance, I saw him out in a bar. I had never looked at him as a romantic interest before, but now I saw him in a whole new light. When he asked me out, I knew that this was it.

  25. Natasia Rose says:

    I think we can all agree that a size 12 isn’t fat. The problem here, as I see it, is that the LW continued to sleep with this man after he started treating her like garbage.

    LW, putting yourself into the dating world and letting someone walk all over you are two different things. You start your email to Wendy by trashing your looks. Go to the mall and get a make-over, work out to get your endorphins flowing and acknowledge your beauty, inside and out.

    Then go on a date and if the guy sucks, tell him to go screw himself and find a new date.

  26. bittergaymark says:

    Yeah, lets all get fat, America! Curves rule! Who cares that we all die younger? Who cares that medical costs are going through the roof? Who cares that we all have diabetes? Woo Hoo! It’s sexy and accepted to be fat! So lets all go, girls! Wait… Maybe we should actually get off our ever expanding asses and do something about staying in shape? Nahhhh! Fat is in! Guys secretly LOVE big, bloated women!! It’s just that they get embarrassed because of peer pressure! Deep down everybody secretly wants Roseanne Barr in bed.


    Newsflash. Guys ARE very visual. (Trust me, I know. Gay guys are even worse.) You know what? I simply take care of myself. I go to the gym. I walk a lot. And I often skip desert. I take the salad over fries.

    This post will get me a million thumbs down, but I’m sorry… I don’t think telling somebody to embrace their extra baggage is doing anybody any favors. America is getting fatter by the day and all this normalizing and acceptance of obesity is a huge part of the problem. Thanks Oprah. Seriously…who didn’t see it coming that the consequence of normalizing being FAT would only ensure that it became normal to be fat? Heck, I was at a playground the other day and I simply couldn’t believe how FAT so many of the kids were. I mean, seriously, seriously fat. It was truly disturbing. When I was a kid in the 1970s, hardly anybody was fat. Seriously, I recently looked through old class photos a while back — and I grew up in the midwest which is not the easiest place to stay fit as it is below freezing so much of the time… But now, here in southern California — LA even! — where one can seriously be outside 350 days a year, the kids are all fat. And that is sad. It truly is.

    If you don’t care enough to take care of your body, then you need to figure out what the heck is wrong with you. Seriously. Ten extra pounds soon becomes twenty, then thirty…

    1. mark, you are extremely correct. but this LW is a size 12.. you know who else was a size 12? Marilyn Monroe. you are so so right, but not everyone who has a little meat on their bones is obese.

      1. bittergaymark says:

        Yeah, Marilyn was a size 12. But today’s size 12 is not the same as a 1950s size 12. Far from it. See, to make women feel “better” about themselves they have made all the sizes much bigger and roomier than the 1950s predecessors. Depending on her height, a size 12 could be quite heavy actually. She herself says that he looks are not what they once were…

      2. bittergaymark says:

        A friend of mine who does wardrobe has told me that Marilyn’s size 12 of 1959 would be a size 6 today. Or, at some generous stores….a size 4.

      3. I believe that about Marilyn. My grandma gave me a bunch of her old dresses once and the waists were out of this world tiny, but they were all labeled size 6 or 8. I don’t really understand this emphasis on size though. I don’t think sizes have much to do with the shape people are in. Sizes in stores are so incredibly random. Sometimes I overhear people bragging that they fit into a size that they normally wouldn’t be able to. But it’s not like your figure changed or anything.

      4. Britannia says:

        THANK YOU regarding the Marilyn quote. I absolutely hate that this “fact” (which is NOT a fact) about Marilyn has become a rallying cry for large women. It’s asinine to use such a “fact” when no one has any idea that it’s completely untrue.

        FOR THE RECORD, Marilyn’s measurements were 37-23-36 (her studio’s official claim), 35-22-35 (her dressmaker’s official claim). These days, the average hip measurement for a size 12 is 41″ or more.

      5. hmmm i didn’t know she has become a rallying cry for heavy women.they really should pick someone else because size 12 decades ago was smaller than it is now(i think that was mentioned).and marilyn monroe was in no way overweight.

      6. well, ok, but i still dont think telling someone who is a size 12 that they are obese is ok… because thats just more then likely not tue. i mean i am sometimes a size 9 in pants, and that is only like 2 sizes below this lady, and to say that she is obese… like thats just not logical. size 12 is not obese. maybe if you like a 12 year old, yes. but not for a normal, middle aged woman.

        all that you said about children being obese, and people in general not taking care of themselves and not being healthy- that is all totally true. BUT, healthy doesn’t have a size. healthy can be a whole lot of different shapes and sizes.

      7. bittergaymark says:

        I wasn’t saying that she was obese. But she probably could stand to get back into better shape. Anybody who says that their body “isn’t what it once was” should probably start taking better care of themselves. So I don’t think everybody piling on and telling her how fabulous she is (sight unseen, no less) and how she doesn’t need to change a thing is really going to do anything to actually “help” the LW in the long run. I just don’t. Seriously, sometimes I think the solidarity of sisterhood can actually be very (albeit unintentionally) destructive.

      8. It’s funny BGM…before even reading your posts I was about to write the same thing.

        Before I write this post,I’m not referring to the LW here.Plenty of advice has already been given to her.But I want to address the issues of “fat” and “curvy”.

        While no woman should ever starve herself to be skinny to please a guy,lets not go the other extreme and encourage overweight women to stay overweight.Moreover,(and I’m not seeing any of the commenters so far doing this)let’s stop criticizing men and women for watching their weight and exercising.It’s called being smart about one’s health.Overweight people ought to take cues from them sometime.Also,time to stop calling fat women “curvy”. They aren’t curvy…they’re fat.”Curvy” is a word we use so as not to hurt people’s feelings.But while we’re telling them it’s okay to be overweight,we’re lulling them into a false sense of security and ignoring all the health risks that go along with obesity.

        I agree with BGM,she could lose a few pounds though no matter what her weight nobody has the right to treat her as this dickhead did.

        I live in Los Angeles and it’s pretty disturbing going to the beach and seeing so many heavy children being fed burgers and fries by their parents because its the “easiest” thing to feed them.It’s also disturbing for parents to teach their children that its okay to be fat because in the workplace nobody will judge you.Reality check: it’s not okay to be fat,it’s not okay to be dangerously skinny and you will be judged in the workplace.

        Okay.Rant over.

      9. And what’s with the phrase “real women”? Are girls who watch their weight and exercise “fake women”?

      10. VioletLover says:

        I’ve been told that I’m not a “real woman” because I was 5’6″ and weighed about 95 lbs. Yeah, way too skinny, and I knew it, and I was taking steps to get to a healthy weight. But I got so much shit for not having “curves”.

        Even now, that I’m at a healthier weight (5’7″and 120lbs) I still get shit from people because I’m not packing much in the way of cleavage.

        And all the people throwing this “not a real woman” BS at me? Other ladies. All of them fat. I’m not talking curvy, I mean they’re borderline obese. The type of body that shows up if you google BBW with your safe search turned off. I’ve never had a healthy sized woman tell me that I’m less of a woman than her because I’m too skinny.

        So I think the “real woman” spiel is a line of crap from women who are, frankly, insecure about their attractiveness.

      11. Yeah,exactly.I’ve never actually heard a healthy looking looking woman tell a skinny woman she doesn’t have real curves.I’ve only heard the fat women say that.It’s like they’re trying to make fat be the norm.Eating properly and exercising is completely taboo….it MUST mean women who do that have low self esteem about their bodies!!

      12. Britannia says:

        And do the women who happen to be naturally thin not deserve to be called sexy, or “real”? It is completely unfair to ostracize thin women because they “must be starving themselves” or “have nothing to complain about”. Oh, and are constantly insulted by being told that “real, sexy women have curves”. So, in order to start a “revolution” that fat girls can be sexy too, the fat girls try to put the skinny ones under their shoe. Very fair and not bitchy at all.

      13. Agreed! And hasn’t it ever occured to people that a lot of the thin girls aren’t thin because they just happen to be “lucky”, its because they take good care of themselves?

      14. Agreed! And hasn’t it ever occured to people that a lot of the thin girls aren’t thin because they just happen to be “lucky”, its because they take good care of themselves?

      15. so any girl with curves, ie boobs and butt, now has to lose weight? curvy applies to anyone who has CURVES, which, weirdly enough, are a natural part of a womans body…. people have called me curvy, so now i have to lose weight because i have a small waist and larger hips?

        that is completely illogical.

        curves are created in a womans body to be able to produce healthier, larger weight children. studies have shown that men are more attracted to a woman with curves then without, because it is an indicator of a better mate.

        no one is arguing that over weight people shouldn’t excersise, and no is saying it is ok to have obese children. what isn’t ok is saying that normal, healthy women need to lose weight because they don’t fit into some type of ideal of a skinny woman. that is just not the way the human body works.

      16. But I’ve never heard a girl who looks healthy(as in,you can actually tell they have boobs and a butt) called “curvy”. I’ve only heard overweight women called curvy.That’s my point.Instead of telling women who are overweight that they are overweight,we call them curvy.It’s a euphemism which doesn’t do them any favors.I’m not suggesting they starve themselves.I’m suggesting they take better care of themselves.The world is not divided up into fat and dangerously skinny people.There’s a happy medium.

        And I’m also not suggesting healthy women lose weight.Women who are health conscious and exercise aren’t necessarily skinny.Some are,but others aren’t.

      17. i have experienced the complete opposite- girls who have that coveted “hourglass” look are called curvy, and overweight girls, well, they are just over weight.

        i totally agree that using polite words for overweight people doesnt do them any good, but i still completely believe that there is no weight or size that is healthy for everyone. some people are bigger then others and that is just the way human beings are.

      18. Calliopedork says:

        Strangers and media should be polite. If you dont know someone and dont really have their well being at heart you should not be making any comments about their weight. If the alternative is strangers and celebrities thinking its ok to shame overweight people i’d prefer we all say curvy

      19. But I’ve never heard a girl who looks healthy(as in,you can actually tell they have boobs and a butt) called “curvy”. I’ve only heard overweight women called curvy.That’s my point.Instead of telling women who are overweight that they are overweight,we call them curvy.It’s a euphemism which doesn’t do them any favors.I’m not suggesting they starve themselves.I’m suggesting they take better care of themselves.The world is not divided up into fat and dangerously skinny people.There’s a happy medium.

        And I’m also not suggesting healthy women lose weight.Women who are health conscious and exercise aren’t necessarily skinny.Some are,but others aren’t.

      20. The world isn’t divided up into fat and dangerously skinny.There’s a happy medium…that would be the woman who is healthy conscious and has a (healthy)amount of fat to have boobs and a butt.I didn’t say there are no such thing as curvy women…I’m saying that women who are fat are not curvy.They’re fat.

        And I’ve also seen that study.And most men are attracted to a woman who takes care of her body over a fat women.Most women are attracted to men who take care of their bodies rather than fat men. Again,people who take care of themselves are not dangerously skinny.They’re healthy.

        I also didn’t say healthy women needed to lose weight.I said fat women do.

      21. There’s also the debate of what is healthy and what is fat but that’s an entirely different debate.

      22. Having said all this,the LW doesn’t deserve this douchebag.If he was ashamed of her body he never should have slept with her to begin with.

      23. i totally agree with that.

        i feel like so much of the time, people think that healthy equals skinny, and i just think that isn’t true. and im a skinny girl im not even a fat girl trying to justify myself! i just dont believe in the blanket statement of skinny = healthy. different bodies are going to look and weigh differently but they can all be healthy.

      24. ForeverYoung says:

        I was going to bring this up mark but we have no idea how tall she is… How often she works out… Really anything besides a size 12… When I was a size 12 I personally was too fat, but some who is 5’8 probably isn’t. For her personally I think her number one priority needs to be her self esteem. Once she has a positive self image she will have a better lens with which to assess her physical health.

        I still appreciate your bluntness though 🙂 I just think girl self esteem is a pretty delicate issue. I know for me depression leads to weight gain like a stereotypical girl crying in a bowl of ice cream.

      25. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:

        THANK YOU.

      26. robottapocalypse says:

        Healthy may not have a size, but it does have a BMI, and I’m not sure a size 12 is anywhere near that BMI for the average-height American woman.

      27. bmi’s are not accurate and that has been proven many times

      28. Yeah.I don’t know anybody who has ever gone by BMIs.Most people just weigh themselves on scales

      29. bmi’s dont take so many things into account… they can work for most people, but there are so many other indicators like where the fat is located (this one is so important), how much muscle mass the person has, bone density, water weight at that exact moment, ect… and apparently its even racist.. haha. i guess that the entire scale is based on white people, and so any other heritage’s bodies wont work on it… the difference between an overweight white woman and a black woman is two whole points!

      30. Britannia says:

        Fat calipers are one of the best ways to determine if you’re overweight or not. Also, physical ability/endurance. If you don’t have any sort of illness (besides obesity) and can’t run a mile, you’re probably unhealthy.

      31. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:

        I really don’t know why you got thumbed down for that! Healthy people absolutely should be able to run a mile. The recommended physical activity level is 30 mins of moderate exercise EVERYDAY.

      32. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:


        Nice. I’ve been running with a good friend of mine, as well as trail running, hiking, and general cross training, and whenever we need to motivate each-other we joke about the inevitable zombie takeover.

        Zombies don’t like fast food.

      33. are those the ones that use the pulses to figure out the density of the fat… or are those the grabby ones?

      34. Britannia says:


        The purple thumbs are the ones who will be bringing up the rear end of the crowd when the zombie apocalypse happens.

        I have no problem with this.

      35. I have no idea why she’s getting thumbed down either.Maybe because fat calipers aren’t very popular?I’ve never heard of them either.I sure hope its not because she suggested that its a problem if you can’t run a mile due to only your weight.Because,uh,it IS a problem.

      36. Britannia says:

        @Katie – The calipers that involve MRI/ultrasound.

      37. LMAO it’s racist?? That’s one I’ve never heard.BMIs just seem like too much work to deal with,what with everything you’ve mentioned up to water weight “at that exact moment” (seriously,wtf lol).

        I dunno…I just look at calories and I’m done with it.

      38. yep- your body will flucuate 5 or more pounds each day because of water weight.. sometimes you body is conserving it to use later, sometimes it just used it all up… ect. the body is just way way to complex for a simple math equation to tell us if we are healthy or not- thats what it comes down to.

      39. I’ll just say this, BGM, I agree with most of what you say, but some people are just built differently. I’ve done three triathlons and 2 goddamn half marathons, and guess what…..my ass is still a sz 12. I have a feeling it always will be, because that’s just the way God built me. So every person you see that has a bit of extra fat on them, it doesn’t necessarily mean they sit on their ass.

      40. oh thank you. that was all i was trying to say. i know so many people, of all different sizes and shapes, that are all healthy. it has nothing to do with size and shape. nothing.

      41. she had a 23 inch waist which is smaller than mine and I am a size 0/2.

    2. It’s abnormal to be health conscious nowadays.I remember once ordering a salad with my friends and they asked me why I was trying to lose weight(I wasn’t).

      It’s like if anyone eats anything healthy nowadays,they MUST have some sort of bad body image.

      1. “It’s abnormal to be health conscious nowadays”

        as a chef, i have to completely disagree with that. go read any article about new food trends

      2. bittergaymark says:

        katie, Marie is right. It is was as normal as your articles say then the obesity level in America simply wouldn’t be the HIGHEST its ever been!

      3. No, BGM and Marie, I have to agree with Katie on this one. As a nation, we’re very health conscious; this is why fast food chains are offering apples instead of fries, and milk instead of soda. However, for some people it has nothing to do with the “healthy” meals that are served in restaurants. While some can eat salads, or a Mediterranean diet, or cake and ice cream all day long and never gain a pound, other folks have to completely cut sugars/carbs in order to just maintain their weight. What works for some people does not necessarily work for others.

        In this country, we’ve been force-fed (pun intended) diet literature lauding the food pyramid (with grains! GRAINS! as the base) and low fat/low calorie intake. And because of this, many “healthy” options exist: the apples instead of fries, “lean” microwave dinners consisting of pasta, and low fat yogurts (with FAR more carbs than their full fat brethren because if you take out one, you’ll have to add the other in order to keep some semblance of taste). But for many people, eating a calorie restrictive, low fat diet simply does not work.

        I’ve watched my mom wear a size 2-22. I’ve seen her starve herself, work out to counteract all calories taken in, and stick to a diet with a resolve anyone would envy. And at a svelte size 6 for her 5’5″ frame at age 50, she was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes. Now she follows a plan built by her endocrinologist on which she has gained weight to be a size 12, but is far healthier than she was when she was smaller sized; the diabetes is no longer a threat and she barely has to take readings any longer.

        Myself, I only lose/maintain weight if I stay away from sugars; therefore, there is no fruit, no ‘low fat”, no bread/pasta/grains/rice/potatoes/etc. While this might not work for others such as yourselves, BGM and Marie, it works for me. I’ve just completed my first marathon this past spring and run daily. I intake between 1500-1800 calories a day. And I’m a size 12.

        So, it IS possible to gain weight on a supposedly healthier diet. Eating all “diet” food may help some people but may make others heavier. As a nation, we’ve grown completely dependent on grains as a staple of our diet as a low fat food filler in comparison to proteins and natural fats: a diet that takes numerous processes to make edible. We *are* health conscious; many of us, however, have not been given the information that we need in order to avoid the dogma of low-fat, low cal so ingrained (yay, another pun!) in our culture. Some people just work differently, and “Fat Hate”- such as suggesting that all fat people can be skinny if they work out more and eat like you do– is extremely counterproductive. Rather than be critical, give the book, “Why We Get Fat” a read; it has completely changed my way of thinking about weight loss, control, and understanding the human body.

      4. Yes,all that “diet food” crap that Jenny Craig and South Beach sells is unhealthy.I’m talking about healthier food–fresh fruits and vegetables,lean proteins,whole grains,ect.

        And yes,everyone’s bodies are different.But they aren’t so different that some people who eat healthier will have healthier bodies while others who eat healthier will not.

      5. oh i am so glad that there are other people out there who understand this concept!!

      6. Go read the stats about obesity in this country.It’s shocking.

        Though I do applaud people who cook and eat healthy foods even if they’re just starting too.If I start to see a healthier looking people walking down the street in a few years,Katie,I’ll take your word for it.

      7. alright, maybe i read that a little wrong… is it abnormal to be healthy, because it is easy, fast, and cheap to be unhealthy. but in the grand sceme of things, it is TRENDY to be healthy nowadays. most brands in stores have whole wheat or whatever added now. you can buy Simply Jif, and similar things where there aren’t so many bad ingredients used. the rise in popularity of frozen yogurt shops (less fat, healthy active cultures). just like two days ago, on the same day, i saw on the Today show a segment on how to add more leafy greens into your diet, and right after on the news the world launch of the new mcdonals happy meal that has a caloric reduction of 20%.

        you know, thinking about it that way makes it so much worse that there are so many obese people in america because it is so so accessible to be healthy now… wow. thats a sad realization.

      8. Ah.Well,what I’m seeing is that it’s trendy to sell healthy foods nowadays.I just hope that people don’t start eating healthy foods ALONG with all the unhealthy food they are also consuming.I hope they eat these healthy products in place of the unhealthy things.

      9. “you know, thinking about it that way makes it so much worse that there are so many obese people in america because it is so so accessible to be healthy now… wow. thats a sad realization”.


      10. right! wow. as i typed that i just literally stopped and was like, whoa. keaneu reeves style…

        i just wish people would do a 10 minute google search and figure out a little bit more about health. its honestly not even that hard to eat healthy! i feel like I eat pretty healthy and I dont have to work incredibly hard to do it. for example, the salads at Mcdonalds are supposedly worse for you then the burgers are, thats what the experts say. if people just understood little things like that i feel like it would be so much better….but then again, just not eating at mcd’s ever would really be the best option.

      11. Yep,homecooked meals are best.Even if people feel the need to go to McD’s every once in awhile,they can get the small order of fries instead of supersizing it.

      12. ah i feel like the degrade of home cooked meals has to be near the number one reason america is getting so obese! i cook almost all my meals at home. im kind of spoiled, as i am a chef, and so is my boyfriend, but still! its cheaper, and its healthier.

        we also try to actively find restaurants that make all their own foods.. we found this one little bar that makes all their stuff in house, like even their serrano-tequila and lemoncello! its great. i love that place.

      13. And I think every fast food place now provides a calorie counter or something.I just typed in McDonald’s Calories into Google…got the entire nutritional list.And Subway actually provides it for you when you go there.

      14. yea they are making it easier and easier so people will eventually have no excuse

      15. bittergaymark says:

        Sad but true. America is getting fatter and dumber by the day — but turn on the TV and it’s all just: “I’m a REAL” woman.” “I have curves!” Whatever. So did Jabba the Hutt — NEWSFLASH! He didn’t go out on a lot of dates. Sigh… It’s depressing to go to the malls these days, everybody just looks like shit.

      16. ForeverYoung says:

        The general public is pretty sketchy lately. I refuse to go to waterworld. At a healthy size 4 (in noooo way too skinny… I’m 5’1) I swear I was one of the smallest people there.

      17. Yeah it’s incredible.I know a woman who refused to tell her 17 year old that she needed to lose weight because she didn’t want to “destroy her self-esteem and give her an eating disorder”. Her doctor ended up telling her she needed to lose 45 pounds.If only parents would start acting like parents and telling it how it is…

      18. neuroticbeagle says:

        This reminds me of this true story:

        A customer in a retail clothing store asked an associate for a size for her daughter. The associate said that the store did not have that size,(the customer wanted a size larger than what the store carried) which prompted the customer to ask for where she could find the size. The associate, wanting to be helpful, politely mentioned that stores x, y, and z carried larger sizes, meaning sizes larger than that store. The customer promptly left the store.
        The next day, the customer called up the store deeply offended, resulting in the associate getting written up for ‘inappropriate customer behavior’ because apparently the associate used the phrase “larger sizes” , which was meant to be a statement comparing one store to the other, not in any way referring to any person, was insulting and damaging to the daughters self esteem.

      19. That reminds me of the woman who sued her doctor for telling her she was overweight,which apparently caused her “mental anguish”.

        I suppose the associate could have said “No we don’t carry sizes 1,3 or 5 but sizes 7,9 and 11 are at XYZ”. But either way,that’s ridiculous to complain about!

      20. Britannia says:

        People really are like this.

        I received a customer complaint and was suspended for a week when I worked at Express after a woman asked me to help her find size 16 jeans. I told her we only went up to size 12, and that the only stores in the mall that carried those were the department stores, Torrid, and Lane Bryant. She actually became offended after I mentioned Torrid and LB – “Sorry, I don’t shop at FAT STORES!”

        And then filed a complaint, saying that I was suggesting she was “plus size” and I made her feel discriminated against. My manager laughed when she received the letter from corporate… it’s CORPORATE’S fault for deciding not to provide a size 16, not mine! But they demanded that I receive some sort of punishment so that they “didn’t lose a customer”. A customer they weren’t willing to clothe. Mmmkay.

      21. Wow,that’s really too bad,especially when you didn’t do anything wrong.You were just giving her information.She’s the one who wanted the size 16,its not like you told her she wouldn’t be able to fit into a 12

      22. neuroticbeagle says:

        Ha! Express is the retail store I was referring to! Which Express was it? I was referring to the one in the Cherry Hill Mall (NJ).

      23. Britannia says:

        Tucson Mall in Arizona.

        They really did have a problem with discriminating against/being biased with large girls… In training, they actually say, “We provide skinny jeans in a size 12 because sometimes a size 12 girl CAN rock the style.” And, at least when I was there, it was an unspoken kind of thing that there had to be a “token” large girl on staff – someone who fit into our size 12s, so that the hiring/representation couldn’t be called “sizeist”. I’m ashamed to say I worked there, but really, I didn’t have any other option, I plead innocence since it was my first job… my grandparents literally dropped me off at the mall one day and told me not to leave until I got a job offer. Express was the only one who would take me, at the time.

      24. When I worked at David’s Bridal, I was disciplined because a customer complained that I said her size too loudly when I double checked to see what it was. She wore a size 2!

      25. Yeah it’s incredible.I know a woman who refused to tell her 17 year old that she needed to lose weight because she didn’t want to “destroy her self-esteem and give her an eating disorder”. Her doctor ended up telling her she needed to lose 45 pounds.If only parents would start acting like parents and telling it how it is…

      26. “I have curves” translation: “I have many rolls of fat”. The women with curves are the ones who take care of themselves.Those are the women who do not starve themselves and who do not eat like there’s a famine coming.

      27. robottapocalypse says:

        My girlfriend has what I would call curves, i.e. big boobs, skinny waist, and big butt. She has a healthy fluctuation of weight in a healthy range, but actually has curves. Girls like her call themselves “average,” or “normal.”

        When I was doing online dating, many of the women who claimed they were curvy were actually calling their fat roles curves. Fat rolls are not curves. A gut/pannus is not a curve, it’s a pannus. A muffin top is not a curve, it’s a roll. Delusions are delusions.

        What I find funny is that there isn’t a correlating lie for fat men to use. Fat women call themselves “curvy,” and lie to themselves about how hot the general guy will find them; but what do fat men get to call themselves? Nobody is less sexualized in our society than the fat man.

      28. Haha,maybe we should start calling fat men “curvy” too,although men don’t generally want boobs and a butt.I don’t know why there’s no replacement term for men,either! Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems like the type of ideal body for a man are chiseled arms/abs/legs.So I don’t konw what a correlating lie would work for men either o_O

      29. It’s amusing watching skinny,boob-less,butt-less 13 year olds wearing tight clothing when they don’t have anything to show off.It’s also amusing(and sad)watching fat women wearing tight clothing.What exactly do they think they’re trying to show off.

        I’d love for a woman of a healthy weight to go on tv and show herself off.Of course,we have yet to see that happen.

      30. ForeverYoung says:

        Yeah but I think you might be bordering on too picky at some point. Everyone can’t be perfect. I think if you’re normal, slightly under or slightly over weight everyone should back off.

      31. Oh,I’m not talking about people who are a few pounds overweight or underweight.I’m talking about the ones who are dangerously over/undeweight.

      32. ForeverYoung says:

        Well my is 13 and none of her friends have boobs or butts and are all rail thin and eat ridiculous amounts of food. I wouldn’t categorize them as dangerously underweight. They are just young with high metabolisms

      33. Yeah,not everyone who is rail thin is dangerously underweight.Most skinny girls I see walking around don’t look dangerously skinny.I was referring to girls who are clearly emaciated looking.

      34. robottapocalypse says:

        And guys deserve more credit for knowing the difference between toned butts and fat asses.

      35. Lol.Unfortunately any guy that DARES suggest he isn’t attracted to an overweight woman MUST be a total douchebag.However,if a woman says “I’m more attracted to a guy with a nice body,not a guy with a gut”, that’s totally okay.

      36. My boyfriend & I are very open with each other. We were listening to the radio & this guy called in & said “my gf gained ab over 20 lbs, just because, whats a good way to tell her she should work out w/o her getting mad at me?”
        My bf says he would feel the same way & I wasn’t upset. If your partner isn’t sexually/physically attracted to you anymore, that’s not good. That doesn’t mean he’ll dump me in a second, but you need to keep yourself up!
        I actually gained 25 lbs (I was 124 & skyrocketed to 148! I’m 5’2) when I was taking these anti-depressants (cymbalta, WORST pill EVER!), he never told me anything but I’ve been going to the gym & so far have lost about 15 lbs. All in all, you should always be wanting to better yourself & I agree with BGM, America has gotten too comfortable with “curvy” terms.
        Going to work & school sometimes leaves me no choice but to pass through Mcdonalds, I wish I didn’t, but it’s either that or starve. I just get smarter about what I order & I take the stairs instead of the elevator, park far away etc…while going to the gym. It’s not about being shallow it’s about health!

      37. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:

        Spanish TV. It’s wonderful.

      38. There’s a woman at my job that weighs 350lbs, she’s diabetic, & has done NOTHING to help her situation. No lie, she can barely walk! She gets up from her chair to get something & she’s already huffing & puffing for air. She cooks fried foods, eats Wendy’s a lot, etc…In fact, she couldn’t come to work for 2 months because she was cooking in the deep fryer & spilled the hot grease all over herself… This woman has two children (who both have illness, one is autistic & the other has major heart problems, had 2 open heart surgeries before the age of 15) I’m almost positive the degree of her weight is what caused her children’s illnesses. She has no plan to change her diet, or exercise. Not only is her life at risk, but her children will be motherless if something does happen to her. That’s not acceptable at all

      39. ForeverYoung says:

        DId you seriously just say that her being overweight made her kid autistic? Do you know anything about autism?

        You don’t think maybe the stress of her children’s health maybe led to her weight gain.

      40. Not when she was already overweight & diabetic when she had him. You’re right I don’t know much about autism, but I do know being THAT overweight & baring children leads them to have many health issues. I’m sorry if it sounded bad, but the autistic child was born after the one with heart issues.

      41. ForeverYoung says:

        I cannot even begin to explain how offended I am by your comment. For the record, being overweight doesn’t cause autism. Jenny McCarthy’s son is autistic and she’s rail thin. Saying she needs to lose weight to be there for her children is a valid claim – but saying her weight caused their health issues is beyond disgusting.

      42. I did not mean to offend you, but I truly believe you are pressing that one comment a little too much. Obviously I don’t know about autism, however, I do know that the causes of autism aren’t exactly 100% known. I never, at any point in time said that autistic children ONLY come from obese women, I just said that her degree of obesity & obvious health problems, IMO, are a contributing factor to the child’s autism. Obviously you are more knowledgeable in that ring, so you should probably elaborate.

      43. “but saying her weight caused their health issues is beyond disgusting.”

        a little brash on your part. tone it down just a bit

      44. Thank you, I actually wasn’t 100% sure, but I know that severe obesity does bring a higher risk of health issues transmitted to your pregnancy. I wasn’t trying to be judgemental or rude, just honest.

      45. LTC,you’re right.I didn’t know about the autism thing but it is medically proven that obesity brings an increased risk of health problems to children born(whatever the health problems are).Instead of people getting offended they should learn about it.They can ask any doctor,or will the doctor offend them too?

      46. LTC,you’re right.I didn’t know about the autism thing but it is medically proven that obesity brings an increased risk of health problems to children born(whatever the health problems are).Instead of people getting offended they should learn about it.They can ask any doctor,or will the doctor offend them too?

      47. @Marie & @EB…exactly! to say that me pointing that out is “beyond disgusting”, I don’t get it?? There are other people on this forum saying A LOT more offensive things…I just brought up a point, which has proven to be true.
        It is NOT OK to be obese! Sorry, aside from the physical appearance, it’s more about a health issue, don’t know why that’s so offensive to be concerned about America’s health??

      48. Why am I getting a thumb down for this?
        I didn’t post my opinion; I posted the findings of a MEDICAL STUDY.
        Geez…I’m sorry if you don’t like those facts but don’t shoot the messenger.

      49. “Geez…I’m sorry if you don’t like those facts but don’t shoot the messenger”

        Seriously.Imagine what doctors have to put up with…

      50. ForeverYoung says:

        DId you seriously just say that her being overweight made her kid autistic? Do you know anything about autism?

        You don’t think maybe the stress of her children’s health maybe led to her weight gain.

      51. Hey ForeverYoung,
        Do YOU know anything about autism?

        “Women who have diabetes, high blood pressure, or are obese before pregnancy are more likely to have a child with autism, according to new research.

        ‘For mothers with at least one of these conditions, there was a 60% increased risk for autism in the offspring,” says Irva Hertz-Picciotto, PhD, an autism researcher at the University of California, Davis MIND Institute.'”


      52. Honeybeegood says:

        Hey Eb,
        And everyone else in this thread.

        Do YOU know about correlation and causation? Couples with a combined income of over 200k have an increased chance of buying a BMW. Clearly this means that being rich CAUSES people to buy BMW’s.

        Not to mention tons of studies are performed using dubious methods with non-replicable results, and are funded by companies that want to sell you a product. Wouldn’t you find it ridiculous if there was a study that “proved” you would be up to 34% happier if your lashes were 3x fuller (funded by Cover Girl ofc.). Yet “news” outlets report these types of numbers related to obesity daily.

        Not to mention the whole issue of “health” here is just silly. Who flipping cares if someone is healthy unless that person is you or a loved one of you. No one yells at the tall lanky guy in McDonald’s eating a Big Mac Large size value meal, but if its a fat guy everyone all of a sudden cares about his arteries.

    3. “Is hope lost for women who aren’t skin and bones?”

      Really LW? All women < a size 12 ="skin and bones"?

      Dear LW,
      Disparaging other women's bodies won't make you feel better about your one.

      1. VioletLover says:

        Women saying shit like that is why I’ve lost sympathy for overweight women. All throughout growing up, I was always underweight. And I got a TON of crap for it. People anonymously reporting me, every fucking year, sometimes more than once a year, to the school nurse/counselor for anorexia or bulimia. Girls telling me I’m not a real woman ’cause I didn’t have ‘curves’. Once, when trying on swimsuits in a Gordman’s, I walked past these two obese women (I’m not exaggerating, I honestly think one was almost wider than she was tall) and heard one stage whisper to the other “No real woman looks like that! She’s starving herself and she doesn’t even look good.” Two perfect strangers, old enough to be considered adults, automatically assumed and made public their belief that I had an eating disorder ’cause I was skinny. I’ve been called all range of names, from Toothpick to Skeletor, and I can’t even begin to count how many times my weight has been the butt of a joke.

        Some of it was from guys, yeah, but almost all the verbal abuse was from overweight women. The same chicks talking about how society needs to accept them and their bodies the way they are were the ones being bitches to me about mine. It’s not okay to mock fat people, but hey, skinny chicks don’t have feelings, so fuck ’em.

        I don’t get it. If you want people to stop making fun of you for your weight…why the HELL would you make fun of someone else for theirs?

      2. Britannia says:

        I am in the same boat as you. I developed an eating disorder because everyone kept saying I HAD TO HAVE AN EATING DISORDER BECAUSE I WAS SKINNY, and to stop lying about it! I love that the new method of thought is that fat women are not necessarily mentally disturbed or physically unhealthy, but all skinny women are anorexic and have poor self esteem.

      3. Yeah,it’s annoying.It isn’t healthy to be unhealthily skinny or fat.Moderation is key.But its like super skinny girls are like “At least I’m not super fat like you”!! And fat girls are like “At least I’m not disgustingly skinny like you”!!

      4. Yeah.If we’re all supposed to love our own bodies,that should go for the really skinny girls too.

      5. Honestly,I can’t stand it either when people categorize everyone as “super skinny” or “super heavy”. There’s a damn category called “healthy weight”.

      6. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:


    4. AnitaBath says:

      Wow. Way to over simplify the growing obesity epidemic. So everyone’s fat because we’re supposedly making it okay to be fat? Good to know, because here I thought it was plethora of problems, none that could be easily fixed. But, like always, ALL the blame lies solely on the shoulders of those fatty fatty fatsos. Because the mindset is the ONLY thing that’s changed since the 1970’s….

      1. What do you mean by it being oversimplified?

      2. AnitaBath says:

        “America is getting fatter by the day and all this normalizing and acceptance of obesity is a huge part of the problem.”

        I mean that citing the normalization of being overweight as the HUGE problem concerning the obesity epidemic is like saying the reason health care is so expensive is because of those damned drug companies. They both have so many factors that go into them that claiming ONE part of it is THE problem is laughable.

        There’s this thing called the social-ecological model that public health officials use to help explain all of the factors that go into a problem and at what steps they can try and target the behavior to change it (here’s a handy, but unprofessional-looking link I found .

        The attitudes of the person thinking it’s okay to be fat would fall at the individual level, and you could say that everyone telling that person it’s okay to be fat would fall at the interpersonal level, but then the other three levels and all the other factors that go into it are completely ignored.

        So the HUGE part of the problem behind why most of America is overweight is because it’s normalized? Because here I thought it was a complex mixture of a lot of things, including portion control (the portions in America are HUGE compared to everywhere else), an increasingly sedentary lifestyle (sorry, computers, video games, and television weren’t around NEARLY to the extent they are today in the 1970s), a lack of knowledge on how to eat healthy, the cheap, nasty things and options served at school lunches, a lack of healthy resources in certain communities, the cheapness and zero time involved of obtaining unhealthy food compared to spending the time to cook a huge meal. There are so many factors that go into it, that I can’t help but balk at anyone who tries to claim that they know the one factor that’s pretty much affecting it all. And for that factor to just be a mindset at the individual level, especially concerning children? HA!

      3. Nobody is saying the reason obesity has been on the rise is because they’ve been encouraged to be or accepted as fat.Of course,obesity is caused by lack of portion control,unhealthy eating and lack of exercise.Nobody is debating that.What we’re discussing is how the tendency to be overweight due to all those factors is accepted as the norm because nowadays it IS the norm.

      4. AnitaBath says:

        Did you skip the quote I started out my comment with?

      5. No I read it.Did you skip what I wrote just before you asked if I read that quote? Because I didn’t say normalization of obesity causes obesity. I listed a few factors and I said that overweight people are considered the norm in this country.

      6. AnitaBath says:

        No, I read it. Did you skip what I wrote before about reading the comment I wrote before that quoted what BGM wrote before about how the normalization of obesity was a HUGE PART of the problem? Because he pretty much said that the obesity epidemic is getting worse before now we think it’s “okay.” Which contradicts your statement saying that no one was saying that.

      7. bittergaymark says:

        I stand by my statement. If there was far more of a stigma to being fat, I honestly think less people would be fat. But now, it’s all — Oh, the can’t help themselves B.S. Some of us are born big and blah blah blah.

        I still say it is a HUGE part of the problem. I mean, hey, it is quite interesting how since this acceptance of the overweight spread in the media more and more people are overweight.

      8. i just think you have a skewed view as to what “overweight” is…

      9. Oh,I see what you’re saying.I agree here.It is a big part of the problem.Sure,some people have thyroid issues.Some people are born bigger than others.But nobody is “destined” to be fat.People either choose to live a healthy lifestyle or they don’t.Obesity is not some disease which cannot be controlled.

      10. AnitaBath says:

        Marie, no one is destined to be fat? Really? There isn’t any disease that makes “fat” the default weight? Try Googling Prader-Willi Syndrome (not sure if I spelled that right).

      11. Anita,for some reason I can’t comment under your comment about Prader Willi so I’m commenting here.You’re right and I shouldn’t have said “nobody”. Yes,there are SOME people out there who can’t lose weight due to a thyroid condition or rare genetic disorders such as Prader Willi Syndrome.But not everyone can claim they have a disorder from preventing them from losing weight.And Prader Willi Syndrome is not exactly afflicting our society.Processed junk food and lack of an active lifestyle is.

      12. Okay,nvm,guess I was able to comment under it…

    5. caitie_didn't says:

      I love how every time a LW mentions her size in a letter, it turns into some fucking “well EXCUUUUUSE ME, but people are SO FAT NOWADAYS. GOD DON’T YOU KNOW YOU’RE HEINOUS?!?!”.

      Seriously, gag me with a stick. The LW is asking for advice about something that really isn’t all that related to weight, and you take it as an excuse to go all troll-tastic on a forum that is *usually* reasonable and respectful. Get a life and take your judgey, unrelated comments elsewhere SVP.

      1. Thank you! I was getting depressed with this thread!
        As a not-american, obesity just doesn’t enter my radar as much, maybe? Not talked about as much? I was shocked that people are hating on people in such a blaming, black/white manner.
        I know this site is about tough love, but I think we should remember the love part, too.

      2. Well our talks about obesity aren’t aimed at the LW.It just came up because we’re discussing obesity in the US.

      3. Well our talks about obesity aren’t aimed at the LW.It just came up because we’re discussing obesity in the US.

      4. caitie_didn't says:

        I know, right! The blaming/shaming is OUT OF CONTROL on this thread. It doesn’t belong here, find a food and nutrition forum to share your judgmental and unrelated comments. Even more depressing??? Reading through some responses, I’ve notice a lot of the ones that say “you can find someone who will love you for YOU” HAVE BEEN THUMBED DOWN. Seriously, guys? We’re not talking about an LW who’s morbidly obese, here. And like I said previously, HER SIZE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THIS GUY WAS AN ASS HAT.

        I consider myself a regular commenter here at DW and one of the reasons I keep commenting is because I am always SO impressed at the thoughtfulness (and spelling/grammar!) of the responses here and how supportive commenters are of each other, and of most of the letter writers.

        Mean thread hijacking like this makes me want to leave this community, because it’s become a place that is no longer respectful. Wendy, I know you’re focused right now on getting healthy, but I think in the future I’d really appreciate/respect you taking a harder line with commentors who hijack threads to ride their hobby horses/shame LW’s so blatantly.

      5. bittergaymark says:

        If you can’t handle a much needed civil discussion on the topic of obesity which is the worst its ever been — then maybe you should leave the forums. Seriously. If you can’t a mature chat about the issues, then, frankly, there isn’t much you can handle.

        PS — Very few guys are chomping at the bit to marry “fat chicks.” (Their words not mine.) That is just the plain simple truth.

      6. AnitaBath says:

        CIVIL!? Hahahahahaha.

      7. caitie_didn't says:

        yeah, my thoughts exactly. this discussion has been neither civil nor rational, nor has it had anything to do with the question posed by the LW. Nor is it “much-needed” on the Dear Wendy forums.

        Also, maybe I’m reading too much into BGM’s response, but I’m hearing that I or anyone else who takes issue with this blatant shaming and humiliation must be a “fat chick” because obviously, why else would we have a stake in the discussion?

      8. Though I’m sure if this was a discussion about anorexia,everyone would be up in arms about it,talking about how much of a problem it is.

      9. I don’t think anyone is denying that eating disorders are a problem, but that a LW is looking for advice. Tangents happen, I know, but this thread is one that will no doubt be read and taken to heart by a woman who has had her feelings hurt. There is very little constructive advice going on.
        If I wrote this letter, I know that if I was ALREADY feeling sensitive about myself, an “unrelated” conversation about how fat I might be, and body-snarking at other people, and sharing stories about disgusting fatties, well, I know I would ignore th epositive advice given by Wendy and start freaking out about my weight.
        She didn’t ask about her weight. Thats why she didn’t go into detail (“I’m so tall, and so wide, and this is what I eat for lunch”). she asked about ways to boost her self esteem after a shitty shitty date, but because she made the mistake of identifying her pants-size, now she is fair game.
        I dont know, it upsets me.

      10. caitie_didn't says:


      11. No. I’d still think it has nothing to do with the LW’s question.

      12. Painted_lady says:

        At the same time, though, I think – I hope – everyone would agree that telling an anorexic, “Hey, maybe you might wanna gain a little weight, honey. Try a cheeseburger for the love of sweet jeebus,” would be insensitive, inappropriate and counterproductive. Shaming someone for their eating habits isn’t the most effective way to approach it.

      13. No.All you need to tell someone who is overweight is “Hey,eat healthier and exercise”. (assuming they don’t have some sort of disorder prohibiting them from losing weight)

      14. If you read the majority of our comments about obesity,we haven’t mentioned the LW once.Obesity came up (probably because the LW basically said if you aren’t a size 12 you must be skin and bones,which can’t be further from the truth) and we discussed it.I’ve been a regular reader on DW and I always see people go off on tangents.I’m sure if Wendy thought we were insulting the LW or anyone else on this forum,she would say something.

      15. bittergaymark says:

        You know, I’m sorry, but if somebody writes in about how they were dumped for not being skinny enough — then it seems more than a little logical to comment on how perhaps being a little too fat isn’t exactly a good thing.

        I mean, if somebody wrote in saying that they were dumped because they were too bitchy — I’d be inclined to say, hey, try not being so bitchy.

      16. ok, that statement is the entire problem.

        1. just because someone dumps someone else for not being skinny enough, that does not mean that the person getting dumped is overweight, obese, or even unhealthy. that event has more to say about the person who did the dumping, then the person getting dumped.

        2. your statement is exactly why some girls and women develop eating disorders.

        3. she nowhere said how fat or skinny she was, or whatever- she said a size. size has absolutely nothing to do with how healthy a person is. just like reducing the immense complexity of the human body to a math equation (BMI’s), taking a size as to the fat-ness or skinny-ness, or healthy-ness of a person is just ignorant.

        i honestly cant believe that you would reduce a letter of a woman trying to understand some jerk guy telling her she wasn’t beautiful enough to say, well maybe the jerk was right. you usually have very logical comments, but i just cant even begin to wrap my head around this.

  27. ugh. i hate men like this… hate them.

    LW, here is a story for you. it just happened yesterday on my lunch break…. this girl and me were friends in high school. not amazing friends, but we were good friends. her dream was to become a hollywood actress/model/singer/whatever. after graduation, she moved to hollywood, got an agent, and pretty much cut everyone out of her life except her “new hollywood” friends. so, as her “career” has progressed, me and my friends have seen through facebook her body just get smaller and smaller… she is literally vanishing. the latest picture she posted, yesterday on my lunchbreak, was a picture of her with her torso mostly naked. i could count each of her ribs, and her arms look like wooden dowels. her collarbone, if the light hits it right, looks like a huge necklace it is so pronounced. its sick- so i showed this picture to all my male co workers who were on lunch and asked them if that was attractive in any way to them. their responses were varying from she needs to eat a steak, to that is disgusting, to wow how sad. they also commented how actresses and models now are becoming bigger, and how happy they were about it. they are becoming more like normal people, and not like my emanciated friend.

    my friend has bought into the idea that this guy has planted in your head- that you will never be good enough until you are skinny enough. i just plead with you to see the logic of this matter that it is just NOT TRUE!! every one of the guys at my work commented on how they like girls “with a little meat on their bones”. honestly, this guy’s ideal of a woman isnt even a very popular ideal!! as you can see from a lot of other commentors above, their men love their curves and their butts and boobs just the way they are. find a real man, who loves real women (not emanciated girls) and kick the memory of this jerk to the curb.

  28. Look at the positive! You put yourself out there, you found that you can be giddy and excited again, and yes you got burned, but after reading these comments and Wendy’s spot on advice, I am sure you know that you have and will survive. Let this empower you to put yourself out there again.
    You had the chance to learn what you don’t want, you got a little action, and you can be grateful that you didn’t take him on dates or introduce that weasel to your friends.
    Work on you, be the best you possible, that is the most sexy to a good man, and if he’s not a good man, YOU don’t want HIM!

  29. MissChievous says:

    OHMIGOD! Why did you continue to even speak to this guy after what he told you?! Yes, your self esteem will be thrashed if you allow yourself, after him revealing that you didn’t meet the skinny criteria, to continue to treat you as a fwb. The reason he begged is cause he wanted sex on the side while he looked for the real deal. The way you perk your self esteem is to make a vow to yourself that you won’t let anyone (including yourself) feel inferior. Make the decision palpable and it will make it easier. Just don’t settle for less, which in the long run will save you so much time! (I speak from experience, be thankful that it didn’t take you seven years like it took me and once I resolved that I deserved better it helped weed out a lot of guys and ultimately lead to the best relationship ever). If you think it will be help, get angry, use that passion to fuel your decisions to be able to say “Hell, no!” (It certainly helped me, and got me to lose quite a bit of weight). It’s like what Eleanor Roosevelt says, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

    You are so much more than the sum of your parts. Embrace it. Life is too short to let this slow you down. And it’s healthy to proceed slowly and take a step back and evaluate situations. Don’t be afraid to ask yourself the tough questions. “Will this make me happy?” “Is this what I want?” “Will this get me to where I want to go/what I want?” and “Have I taken this as far as it will go?”

    Everyone experiences disappointments in dating, why would you be any different? It’s totally normal and every guy that it doesn’t work out with gets you one step closer to the right one. If you look at the big picture with the right attitude it will get you through some of the dating bullshit easier.

  30. It doesn’t bother me at all that he didn’t find her attractive. If that’s his MO, whatever, so be it. It’s that he was an ass to her about it. That he fucked with her feelings so that he could get laid, THEN decided to drop the bomb about not being attracted to her.

    LW, keep that confidence up and you’ll find someone that deserves YOU.

  31. Anyway,LW,the guy is a jackass.He shouldn’t have slept with you if he was ashamed of you.You’ll meet a guy who will appreciate everything about you,including your body.Just know that not all guys out there is like the one you had this experience with.There are some jerks out there,sure,but there are some great guys too.


    Gimme this guy’s contact info so I can properly tell him off.

    1. Painted_lady says:

      Lol. Clue – best movie ever. Loves me some Madeline Kahn.

  33. AndreaMarie says:

    Girl, this had nothing to do with you! This guy had some serious insecurity, social acceptence, whatever, issues that he was project out in some bizarre way on your weight. I mean sit back and think about it, if he truly thought you were some chubby, unattractive cow would he be “begging” to sleep with you??!! Obviously he was seriously attracted to you physically. Who knows where his issues about people’s perceived feelings towards a skinny/curvey girlfriend come from and honestly who cares. He is the one that’s going to be unhappy his whole life, settling for what he thinks others will like, all the while not having what he wants.

    You should absolutley put yourself out there. There are all kinds of men out there who like all kinds of women. So cliche to say but you will find a man who loves your body and is proud to show those curves off to anyone within 10 feet.

    Just one additional thought, are you still doing online dating? I was on Match and several of the guys I went out with discussed how women put up only pictures of their face or old pictures and were suprised that the woman they eventually met up with did not look like her pictures. I’m not saying you did that but put up pictures that show you and your beauty, who you are, curvey sexy body and all. I garuntee you’ll get tons of emails from guys who want to take you out.

    1. SpaceySteph says:

      This is great advice that I fear is not getting the attention it deserves due to the kerfuffle above.
      LW if your self confidence is as bad as you say, then you probably are putting up pictures that disguise your body or make you look “better” than you think you look normally. It could be attracting the type of guy that will not find you attractive, because he is looking for someone with an appearance that matches your photos but not your physical self. Put up pictures that show the real you, with all your curves, and you will attract guys who will be interested.
      The truth of first impressions is that your body has to make them, so certain people like this jerk, who have it in their head that they can’t be seen with a “fat girl” will never stick around long enough to know you.

  34. I am the person that wrote this question. First of all, thank you all for the positive comments, I know now he is a complete douchebag. But it seems like all these comments are taking on a new light. Do I need to post my weight for some people to say oh its ok or not ok to be treated like that? When I quoted about me not looking the way I use to, its called stress, its called having a 3 year old and working full time and going to school. I don’t have all the time in the world to hit the gym like I did back in the single days, and a majority of women’s body change after a baby. And “curvy” is not always a defintion for a “fat girl” to use. I use curvy because I have a small flat weight but I have hips and a butt. Anyways, some people seemed confused about those things, hope I cleared it up for ya!

    1. AnitaBath says:

      “Do I need to post my weight for some people to say oh its ok or not ok to be treated like that?”

      Don’t be silly, LW! We’ll need far more than your weight to know if we should treat you with respect. We’ll need your weight, height, bra size, heart rate, blood pressure, and cholesterol levels before we’ll adequately be able to put you on a sliding scale ranging from “BURN THE UNHEALTHY WENCH!” to “Meh, okay, I’ll admit it, you’re decently healthy and worthy of my respect.”

      But in all seriousness, I’m glad you have the healthy attitude (so much stress on a healthy weight, and yet none put on a healthy attitude) about it all. The douchebag’s behavior was completely uncalled for, and I’m glad you can see that!

    2. “And “curvy” is not always a defintion for a “fat girl” to use.”

      GOD THANK YOU!!!

    3. Painted_lady says:

      Good for you, LW!!!! I stayed out of the shitstorm up there because…well, I hate crap like that. Good job on standing up for yourself on here.

      I fail to see how going on and on about how unbearable it is that people are fat and totally to blame for it all is helpful to you, especially since you’d taken such a hit on your self-esteem. Aside from making you feel awful, if they’re trying to shame you into losing weight, I know self-loathing and shame generally work wonders on motivation. Just ask all of those women who comfort eat.

      I also fail to see how encouraging you to be more healthy and active – which just about everyone prior to that awful series of rants DID encourage you to do – is accepting and “normalizing” obesity.

      Whether you’re 5’8″ and a truly curvy size 12 or 4’11” and 40 pounds heavier than is healthy, that guy is still an asshole and you still didn’t deserve it. No matter what size you are, working on your physical well-being can NEVER hurt, and no matter what your size, saying thoughtlessly hurtful or intentionally cruel things about your weight (even when it’s under the veil of “just being honest” or “not directly about her”) ALWAYS will.

      I am in a healthy weight/size range for my height, and I have always been on the thinner side. I have a wonderful boyfriend who treats me well, but that’s after a string of men who were not awesome at all. I have heavy friends with amazing boyfriends, thin friends with awful boyfriends, and vice versa. Some of them could do way better, some of them don’t deserve how good they have it. And yet, that has nothing to do with weight.

      I’m sure this will fall on some deaf ears, and that’s fine, but there is a fine line between being blunt and being cruel. I’m not suggesting anyone is going out of their way to be deliberately cruel, but perhaps we could all go out of our way and deliberately *not* be cruel. Just sayin’.

      1. there are some certain people who need to read this….

    4. neuroticbeagle says:

      From what I read, everybody seems to be in agreement that the guy is a complete tool and you did not deserve to be treated in such a way no matter what your weight/size.

      I think the arguement came from some people saying that you should accept your body the way it is regardless of size/shape/weight. Others disagreed with this general principle of unconditional acceptance and pointed out that health should be a condition; that one should accept ones body size, shape and weight as long as one takes care of oneself and is healthy.
      Chaos then ensued with some people discussing your specific case (“she never said anything about being an unhealthy weight”) and other people discussing generalities (“dress size does not determine whether some one is healthy or not”). Mix in people’s experiences, emotions and strong opinions about what is fat/skinny/average/healthy/unhealthy and this board went a little crazy.

      1. Yes.I have yet to read a comment which says “Hey,LW,you deserved this,you shouldn’t be a size 12 if you want a man”! Any girl of any size deserves and will find a good man.I think we’re all in agreement that this guy is an asshole.But what set off this obesity discussion was when people said “love your body the way it is”. I fully agree with that statement–but loving your body doesn’t mean eating/starving yourself to death,it means taking care of it.

        But I have to disagree with the LW when she basically says that people who aren’t a size 12 are skin and bones.That’s completely false.

  35. AndreaMarie says:

    I was just reading an article about vanity sizing, and as a petite woman, am dealing with the issue surrounding it.

    We women are so caught up on the size in the clothes. Size is all relative. A girl with a nice curbey butt/hips can be in a zero, meanwhile a tall rail is a 6. Google Miss USA, Alyssa Campanella. She is a good friend of mine. What size do you thin she is? 00? Nope she’s a 2/4.

    I have a friend I consider to be out of shape. Pudgy tummy, saggy thighs, and bad eating habits. No one would call her “skin and bones’. She’s a size 0. I have a friend who runs marathons. She is solid muscle with a six-pack. She’s a size 8.

    This whole vanity sizing is insane. Stores purposly designing their clothes to run big so that woman can be happy wearing a 2 (when in reality its measured to a size 6). Thus they will spend more money in that store so they can “feel smaller”. It’s insane and really puts us women in a pathetic light.

    As someone who is just over 5 feet and 100lbs with a small frame, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE for me to find clothes!!

  36. I got together with my now-husband when I was at my heaviest, around a size 10 and probably 165 lbs–like you, LW, I’ve never been fat, but the skinny-chasers were never after me because my legs were bigger than theirs. I am so serious when I say that he changed the whole way I look at my body and my weight (which is not to say that you need a man to make you feel beautiful, the light just didn’t go on for me until then). He is hispanic and the whole standard of beauty in his country is just different from ours–there’s absolutely no emphasis on the merit of being skinny. They love big butts and big legs, and they really couldn’t care less about some belly fat, cellulite, whatever–and the funny part is, even though they’re not super interested in fitness, their diet is pretty healthy. I am six months pregnant now, and I swear to you, I am a fucking whale, but my husband tells me literally every day that I look great and he can’t believe what a “cute preggo” I am–he also follows me around trying to touch my butt and pinch my legs because he thinks it’s cute that they’re so fat now. I say this not because the most important thing is for your man to find you attractive–mine is a great guy all around, connects with me and treats me well–but because the wrong influence can really negatively skew your view of yourself, whereas the right one will make you feel great about all the things you love and value in yourself–including that butt!!!!

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