New readers, welcome to Dear Wendy, a relationship advice blog. If you don’t find the info you need in this column, please visit the Dear Wendy archives or the forums (you can even start your own thread), or submit a question for advice.
DENNIS: First, the short answer: Awesome. No. It’s an excuse. Yes. Go bowling.
And now, the long answer: It’s the perfect exit strategy for a guy looking to pump-and-dump. If he wasn’t all that interested in you to begin with, but was just looking to get laid, saying that he lost respect for you is an easy way to get out of seeing you again. Either way, a guy just looking for sex can easily hedge his bets: If you have sex with him right away, he “loses respect for you”; if you don’t have sex with him right away, you’re just a “tease.”
The point is, if a guy really likes you, he’ll be excited that you actually want to have sex with him, even on the first date. But there is one caveat: If he does like you, but then somehow gets the impression that you always have sex on the first date, then he may indeed lose respect for you. So, my advice? If you’re gonna sleep with a guy on the first date, at least make him feel like he’s special. That is, unless you’re just looking to get laid. In that case, tell him that you lost respect for him for giving it up so easily, then kick him out of bed.
JMagic: A guy’s opinion of sex on the first date depends on if it actually happens or not. Sure, we may be willing participants, but part of that is because sex. feels. good. Simple as that. And not having to work hard at it aside from buying dinner, cracking a few jokes, and making the right ‘moves’ makes it feel that much better. However, no matter how good it feels, all respect that may have been there at the beginning of the night is more than likely gone. Why? Because we figure if it was that easy for us to take it to that level, then it’s probably just as easy for some other guy to take it to that level. So rather than get attached to you as a person, we generally just chalk it up to a ‘future booty call.’ Harsh, but true. Now, if you make us wait, as crude as that sounds, we’re more likely to take things more seriously and make notes about you that don’t include the words “booty” and/or “call”.
David Jay: If a woman sleeps with a guy on a first date, it leaves the impression that it didn’t really matter whether it was him or any other guy. She just wanted sex and she used him for it. Some (scummy) guys are all too willing to assist women in making this mistake. If you ever meet the guy who says “Whoa!.. we just met!” as you stand before him topless… he’s worth a second date, and probably a lot more than that.. if you didn’t scare him away already.
The invitation to come inside should never be more than just that, but if you are uncertain, use the earlier part of your date to lay down your ground rules about relationships. For instance, “I don’t sleep with anyone until we’ve dated for at least a month.” Believe it or not, this is a BIG RELIEF for guys because it whisks that 800-lb “sex” gorilla out of the room and he can focus on just getting to know you without the added pressure. (Stop laughing guys. No… really. Guys? Guys!?).
Joe: In general, if a guy is sexually attracted to you, he’ll be fine with sex on the first date. If a man finds something desirable, he’s going to be happiest if he gets it ASAP. This applies to cheeseburgers. This applies to NFL RedZone on cable. This applies to sex. That doesn’t mean he has to have sex on the first date – just that it’s rarely seen as a negative.
Will he lose respect for the woman if they have sex on the first date? No. Whatever level of respect he had for her before sex will likely be undiminished after (of course, it might have been low before). If a guy says he lost respect for a woman because she slept with him on the first date, he really had little respect for her in the first place and probably was simply dating her to see if he could sleep with her.
If a man asks you to go to somewhere private with him, yes, often, they would be interested in having sex with you. However, that doesn’t usually mean they expect sex – for example, I want to win the lottery, but I don’t expect to. You should never feel that you’re expected to have sex, and you can always say that you’d love to hang out but that you’re not interested in getting physical. Also, as a reminder, you should never go somewhere private with someone you don’t trust and without friends knowing where you’re going and how to reach you.
* If you’d like to ask the guys a question, simply email me at [email protected] with “His Take” in the subject line and I’ll pass your question along to them.
mandalee August 9, 2011, 8:46 am
I may be a bad example of this, but I had sex with my now-fiance (and husband as of this Saturday) on the first date. I only slept with two other guys in my life at that point and both were in a relationship with me for months before we had sex. I’m sure it’s rarity that you go on to marry first-date sex girl, but it happened. In my case, he really was the exception. I was just so overwhelmingly attracted to him, both physically and mentally, I couldn’t help it. Afterward though, I was really, really embarassed. He offered me to stay over and I was like do people do that when they first meet? lol
At the end of the day, if it’s the first date it happens or your first year anniversary, if it’s the right guy/relationship, it won’t change matter when it happens. If it’s the wrong guy or time, then who cares. Life is too short to worry! I mean I wouldn’t make a habit of first date sex, but if it happens, what can ya do?
Bethany August 9, 2011, 8:51 am
Good luck on Saturday!!!!
LTC039 August 9, 2011, 10:02 am
I think it depends on the person & whether or not its meant to be. haha
A good friend of mine had drunken sex the first time (no date) she met her now boyfriend. They’ve been together for 6 yrs & are sure they want to marry each other (she’s waiting until she graduates Grad school).
LTC039 August 9, 2011, 10:02 am
Oh & Congrats to you & your soon-to-be husband!
mandalee August 9, 2011, 10:06 am
Thanks so much!!!
Yeah, I agree 100%- itdepends on the couple and situation. I feel like it’s not really a question that has a black and white answer. It has so many variables involved.
sohara August 9, 2011, 11:56 am
Congratulations. My friend E had sex with her husband on the first date, they slept together every night after that, were married on the first anniversary of their first date and have been married 30 years. Sometimes it just works out.
Landygirl August 9, 2011, 11:58 am
Good luck on Saturday! Congratulations!
mandalee August 9, 2011, 1:36 pm
Thanks Everyone! 🙂
Marie August 13, 2011, 12:21 pm
@Landygirl, totally off subject but your do is so cute! What kind is it?
Anna August 9, 2011, 3:51 pm
I don’t think you are a bad example at all! I believe Dennis, that “losing respect” for the woman is a douchy excuse to hit it and quit it. I worked with my boyfriend for about a month and developed a huge crush on him…when I finally asked him out, he said yes, and our first date consisted of driving around, eventually parking, and just talking the entire time. I had never felt so connected to someone. We did have sex on that first date, because we felt so connected and hit it off so well. It just felt right. We were very young and sexually inexperienced so we weren’t very good at it, but 8 years later we are still together and as close as ever (and the sex is fabulous!).
Jiggs August 9, 2011, 3:52 pm
I will throw another hat in the ring for ‘married the guy I boned on the first date’. It was the first time I’d ever done that as well and I had also only slept with two guys previous whom I did wait at least a month with. And we got married two months ago. It’s weird for me to read your comment because it’s basically my life too!
LW: If you’re feelin’ it, I say go for it. Even if he turns out to be douche, you still got sex with someone you’re presumably attracted to, so, pretty good deal. But don’t put out because of pressure or because you’re trying to convince yourself you’re an independent woman or something. It’s fine to go there, it’s also fine to wait.
Flake August 9, 2011, 9:11 am
I slept with my BF (of four years now) on the first date… We have a house and a 18-month old baby…
I also think that it has something to do with how old you are, and if you know yourself well and know what you want. When I was in my early 20s I always waited awhile before sleeping with someone, because that is how long it took to figure out what I want from that person/relationship. As I got older, I became better at judging people. So it became more about “do I want to sleep with this person at all vs. when do I sleep with this person”. Basically, if I think a guy is worth getting to know, it doesn’t matter when you sleep together.
Nick August 9, 2011, 12:06 pm
There is wisdom in this about how you likely become quicker and surer with age/ experience in deciding whether to FotFD. Also, when you’re younger, you have more time. FotFD in high school? Rare. FotFD in 20’s? At times. FotFD in 30’s? Probable. 40’s? I’d like to think that in the 70’s or beyond it’s a sure thing.
Dennis Hong August 9, 2011, 1:48 pm
In your 70s, I’d recommend F at the start of the FD because, let’s face it, you may not make it through the entire date….
Nadine August 9, 2011, 9:23 am
I, too, slept with my partner of four years on the first date…….
Bailey August 9, 2011, 9:29 am
My current boyfriend and I slept together on our second date, which was the night after our first. I was determined not to sleep with him, because from my previous experiences, things never work out when you sleep together on the first date. However, it was the night before my birthday and i figured “what the hell, it’s my birthday”, so I slept with him and in a few weeks it will be our one year anniversary 🙂
So yes, in my experience, a lot of times sleeping with the guy on a first or second date does mean that it won’t go anywhere… but it’s definitely not always the case. Use your own judgement.
Jiggs August 9, 2011, 3:55 pm
“What the hell, it’s my birthday” has to be the best reason for first date sex I’ve ever heard.
silver_dragon_girl August 9, 2011, 9:30 am
A month, David Jay?!?!?!?! A MONTH?!
Anyway, I agree with the guys who say that it doesn’t really matter. If a guy likes you, he’ll stick around regardless of when you have sex. If he’s not that into you, he won’t. It’s really as simple as that. Personally, I usually wait longer with guys I want an actual relationship with, because I like to lay the groundwork for actual feelings to be involved. Whether that works or not, who knows. Actually, going forward in my dating life, I’m going to resolve to wait longer (third date has been my usual MO up until now), more to protect my own emotional health than anything else.
demoiselle August 9, 2011, 12:51 pm
If you’re going on one date per week, that’s not very long at all…
Red_Lady August 9, 2011, 1:02 pm
Very true! I recently got engaged, and so many of my friends & family were like “finally!!” But we’ve only been together 3.5 years, and the for the first year we saw each other just a few times a month due to distance, then about 1-3 times/week since then. If you don’t see each other every single day, months and years don’t seem as long.
silver_dragon_girl August 9, 2011, 1:37 pm
True! Usually when I hit it off with a guy I see him 2-3 times a week at first (if it’s doable with our schedules), so that’s what I was thinking when I thought a month seemed like a long time. But if you’re just meeting up once a week then, yeah, a month wouldn’t be long at all.
demoiselle August 9, 2011, 2:21 pm
Yeah, I slept with my husband after one week, but during that week we spent 7-10 hours every day together. That’s a lot of weeks of one-three-hour-dinner-per-week dating.
Morgan August 9, 2011, 9:39 am
I don’t know if every guy looses respect for a girl if she sleeps with him on a first date, but I think a guy will respect that you have standards for yourself and stick to them.
Story: my current boyfriend and I met in college at a fraternity, I was pretty trashed and went home with him. He was also really drunk, but still enough of a good guy to, before escalating things, stop and ask what I was comfortable doing. I told him I wouldn’t have sex with him because I wasn’t comfortable making that decision while drunk. He much later, after we’d been dating for a while, said that he admired that I stuck by my standards and it made him determined to get me to go out with him sober. He phrased it as something like “a hot girl who wants to sleep with me but also respects herself is always a keeper.” (By which i absolutely do not mean to suggest that sleeping with a guy on the first date is a sign of not respecting yourself. I think just respecting what you are comfortable with, whether that includes sex or not, is important.)
This was, of course, not really a first date, but it was the first time I met him, so it seems at least a little relevant. So, if your standards include willingness to go for it on a first date if you’re really into the guy, I think that can be fine. I won’t hold it against you at least. But I think it can be important to the guy to convey that you do, in fact, have standards. I tend to agree with what Dennis said, about making the guy feel like you’re doing it because you’re super into him in particular, not just because you sleep with every guy on the first date.
Mainer August 9, 2011, 9:54 am
Make a list of all the things that typically happen in a relationship, that are usually considered a step forward. Meet the friends, the parents, weekend getaway, I love you, keep some stuff at my place, let’s move in, let’s get engaged, married, kids, etc. Somewhere in there is “sex” as well. Now of all those things, sex is the easiest to do before you’re really sure of your feelings. It’s the only one where you can say “Yeah, sure, let’s have sex.” You would never say “Yeah, sure, why don’t you meet my parents” or “Yeah, sure, I love you.” Guys, and this may come as a shock so please sit down, like sex. We’ll take it if it’s offered without really thinking about what we’re doing (logistics aside). So afterwards, when we’re laying in bed, we’re thinking: “We just had sex. What’s next? Oh man, I’m on the list. Sex is crossed off, where do we go from here? What step is next? I’m not even sure I wanted to be ON the list, now I am. Is this a relationship already? I don’t know her that well, it’s only been one date. What’s she thinking? Does she want to be committed now? Where does sex fall on her list?” It’s not the most logical mindset, but the blood hasn’t quite worked it’s way back up to our brain. If we stop thinking of sex as a conquest and more of a step in a relationship, it may be a little easier to understand why a guy may bolt if it happens too soon. Like others have said, if you two are into each other and know it, then the *when* doesn’t really matter. But unless that is the case, it can rock the boat a little bit and may freak some guys out in regards to where it puts you on the relationship spectrum.
Budjer August 9, 2011, 10:05 am
Yep, I’d also say that is an accurate description of most average guys after first date sex when you weren’t 100% sure of how you felt about the girl the night before.
justpeachy August 9, 2011, 4:00 pm
Didn’t mean to thumbs-down. Apparently my mouse has a mind of its own…
Budjer August 9, 2011, 4:05 pm
It’s cool. I can take it!.
fast eddie August 9, 2011, 9:30 am
WOW she had sex with me on the first date!
It can only mean she thinks I’m HOT.
I think I’m in love.
Sorry girls but we’re little boys that are easily impressed and delusional. When we have a wonderful evening together ending with doing the sheet shuffle our egos soar and want to make it a torrid weekend of never getting dressed. When reality smacks us in the face that you have other plans for today/tomorrow/the rest of your life we have to crawl back to the cave nursing our bruised ego. It isn’t a matter of respect for you, rather it’s about respecting ourselves. We wonder if we did something wrong/illegal.
Fast forward a few decades, my wife wouldn’t even kiss me on our first date. I felt rejected/used and it took a few days to get over it. Persistence pays off and I took the risk of being rejected again by asking her to come to my place for dinner the next weekend. The last thing I expected was to have sex. A fine meal of trout was served, she gave me a BJ for desert and didn’t go home until Monday. 25 years later we still have trout weekends.
Bottom line is sex on the first date is great but if your not interested in a repeat performance and unwilling to speak to him again after you get your jollies, offer and hand shake or a hug lock the door and dig out your dildo. Rejection is something we able to handle on the street but a night of passion is the stamp of approval for future exploration. Having respect is a two way street without speed bumps.
silver_dragon_girl August 9, 2011, 9:45 am
So what I’m taking home from this is that I should serve more trout?
fast eddie August 10, 2011, 8:53 am
When your fishing in the deep waters of life you never know what will bite your bait.
Landygirl August 9, 2011, 10:57 am
Guys lose respect because they are raving hypocrites, that’s why. They overlook the fact that they are just as easy and indiscriminate as the woman they sleep with. If a guy sleeps with you on the first date and then blows you off, it’s because he’s a jerk, not because you’re a loose woman.
You guys can explain and give as many excuses as you want, but in the end, you’re not taking responsibility for your own actions.
Katie August 9, 2011, 12:05 pm
can I get an amen!!!
Lydia August 9, 2011, 2:43 pm
THIS. Helloooo double standard.
If a guy would just lose his respect for me because we had sex on the first date, I would lose all of my respect for him even faster. It takes two to tango.
Budjer August 9, 2011, 10:01 am
As is the case in many situations there are a lot of ways a guy will react to sex on a first date depending on: his personality, your personality, both of your views on sex, and most importantly the context in which the physical relations happened.
I think for the most part that sex on the first date for people isn’t truly “losing respect” – that is a silly notion to me and I think an incorrect way of expressing that people lose interest and maybe feel slighted sometimes if they perceive that the mutual sex is not important. If a guy is one of those types that really values sexual discretion he won’t get whacked out by first date sex if you express similar values and make sure he knows that it is him you are with and you’re not just getting off with him because he’s there….really he just wants to know that it means something…
As is the case with me though I typically advise against having sex with those types of guys right away because they get attached easily and will over-look glaring personality differences that would make a relationship difficult!
leilani August 9, 2011, 11:22 am
Yeah, I’m not a dude, but from my experience, I don’t think in most cases having sex with a guy who likes you would change his opinion of you negatively. I think girls get this impression because guys are generally less picky about who they have sex with. A guy might seem super into you on a first date because he wants to get laid, and then have sex with you even if he knows he’s not interested in pursuing you romantically. Then, when the girl looks back on the experience, she thinks, “man, he really seemed to like me until I had sex with him, and then he lost interest”. From that, they pinpoint the sex as the turning point, when in reality, the guy would have lost interest either way. I’m sure there are some dudes out there who lose respect with girls when they have sex with them, but I haven’t met any of those guys and I have no interest in doing so. In general, I think if I guy really likes you, you’d have to do something pretty bad for him to suddenly lose interest….and I don’t think having sex with him falls into that category.
Katie August 9, 2011, 12:04 pm
I completely disagree with David Jay
cookiesandcream August 9, 2011, 7:16 pm
Hi, I’m the LW and I just wanted to say in David Jay’s defense that I think it’s important for men to feel like they can slow things down in the bedroom too. Sometimes I wish more guys would be more honest about not wanting to jump right into be instead of hooking up with a girl just to validate their masculinity.
katie August 9, 2011, 8:01 pm
yea- just because their guys doesn’t mean they have to jump at every naked figure with boobs they see…. guys do have emotional ties to sex. not like women do, but they still have them.
David Jay August 9, 2011, 11:49 pm
Of course you do, Katie. Getting to know someone’s last name BEFORE having sex with them is SOOO yesterday!!
Nadine August 10, 2011, 6:43 am
I do too, but why do you?
My problem is that if she sleeps with him it doesn’t matter who it is. I haven’t been on many dates, but it seems to me that if a date is fun, and someone accepts an invitation up to the others room (doesn’t matter which does what) then its probably because they like each other and they want to keep getting to know each other. and in my book that means in the social sense and the biblical sense.
Natasia Rose August 10, 2011, 11:31 am
David Jay’s response reflects the reason why the LW wrote in in the first place. He views women who sleep with men on the first date as sexually aggressive women who sleeps around, don’t care who they are sleeping with, don’t feel an emotional connection and don’t care what their date’s full name is. So basically, his answer is “Don’t sleep with a guy on the first date.”
Don’t sleep with a guy like David Jay on the first date, is my advice.
David Jay August 10, 2011, 12:33 pm
Ummm… you couldn’t sleep with me on a first date… that’s the point. If we’re dating, it means that I already have respect for you. And even if I didn’t, I’d respect myself more than that. Sorry loose ladies… I know this is a major disappointment to you 😉
Laurel August 9, 2011, 12:10 pm
Okay…my experience is a little different from all the people saying “I slept with a guy on the first date and we’re still together [x amount of time] later.” I was one of those people a couple years ago. I slept with a guy on the first date and we went on to have a 2.5 year relationship. Does that mean sleeping with him right away was a great idea? NO. I was horny and missed having regular sex, and once I’d slept with him it clouded my judgment with a false sense of attachment and intimacy. I took those feelings to build a relationship on, which ultimately crashed and burned because when it came down to it, I didn’t really like him as a person. If I had gone out on a few dates with him before sleeping together I might have figured that out and not wasted so much time getting invested in him.
I think it’s important to ask yourself what it means to you to have sex on the first date, not just what the guy will think. Do you want to have sex with someone you’ve only spent a handful of hours with? If you do that’s fine, but just go into it with your eyes open and be aware of how you react to sex (if you’re like me, it gives you a false sense of intimacy/attachment), and that you’ve just barely scratched the surface of someone’s character on the first date. Look out for yourself first. Ask yourself why you want to have sex with him so fast. Is it because you’re just so, so into him that you don’t want to wait? In that case, is there a chance that delaying your gratification for a period of time might make the sex even better and more satisfying? Do you want to find out more about him with the hopes of forming a long-term relationship? Then it’s probably best to wait, because if you’re operating on that time frame, there’s no need to rush. Is it because you’re horny and want to get laid and feel secure that you won’t have (many, if not any) negative emotional ramifications for it? Then by all means proceed.
ktfran August 9, 2011, 1:28 pm
I’m glad you posted this. It’s an excellent point and very true for a lot of people.
Laurel August 9, 2011, 1:59 pm
justpeachy August 9, 2011, 4:08 pm
And she sticks the landing!
You make some very valid points and I think your advice goes really well with some of the advice giving by JMagic and Mainer: sex can change how people view relationships. It may not necessarily mean that the guy has lost respect for you, but it will inevitably change something. And you need to not only be prepared for changes in him but changes in yourself.
Anna August 9, 2011, 10:57 pm
Well spoken! As one of the above posters, I completely agree with you. Even though it happens that I’m still with the guy I got it on with on our first date, it doesn’t mean I would repeat it in the future purposefully. I feel like that happened because it was meant to happen, not that it’s a blueprint for everyone else’s relationships. Hoping it turns out as magical as it seems and I never see another first date again!
David Jay August 10, 2011, 9:30 am
… that’s all I’m sayin! Very well said, Laurel. 🙂
cmarie August 9, 2011, 12:16 pm
If a guy says he lost respect for you because you slept with him on the first date take it as a blessing and run. Any guy that hung up on sex, who will pursue you and actively want and try to have sex with you then “lose” respect for you is nobody you want to be with. These type of guys tend to have a Madonna/whore complex that you just don’t want to be involved with. He’s a loser and doesn’t deserve your time. Those type of men are hypocrites and need to grow up. When the right man comes along, and by right man I’m not necessarily talking your soulmate, it could just be someone you can have a loving if temporary relationship with, sex on the first date will be just another thing that makes you awesome to date AND love.
Morgan August 9, 2011, 1:10 pm
What is it, sex on the first date day? Not only does The Frisky have a poll up about it, but two other blogs I read have features on the topic as well.
Katie August 9, 2011, 1:19 pm
I noticed that too! haha
heidikins August 9, 2011, 12:17 pm
I would like to know why, after a MUTUAL sexual experience, the “I lost respect for her” thing gets dumped on the woman. Why is it something wrong with her/me if it was a mutual thing? I don’t get it. No self-respecting man would honestly say “Oh, I lost respect for her because she slept with me on the first date” because, guess what, HE JUST DID THE EXACT SAME THING!! This is one of those hypocritical things that just drives me batty.
melikeycheesecake August 9, 2011, 1:27 pm
Yes to this… a millions times yes to this comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReadingIsFundamental August 9, 2011, 1:43 pm
A suggestion of sex on the first date would make me say goodbye. I see it much the same way I see drunkenness — if a woman is more interested in sex or booze than in getting to know me on the date, then she’s wasting my time.
David Jay August 10, 2011, 9:47 am
Interesting point, RIF… that the behavior is indicative of a greater issue/problem. I think you’re saying that, for you at least, it speaks to the person’s character if they want to engage in sex on the first date (and I don’t disagree). If you pursue that line of thinking however, the attitude you will ultimately uncover is that it is CHARACTER that doesn’t matter, not just sex. (I consider it President Clinton’s contribution to America.) Character is now defined in terms of “how much you agree with me” instead of your commitment to established principles… as demonstrated by the collective number of purple thumbs we will both accrue. 🙂
CatsMeow August 9, 2011, 2:04 pm
Um, JMagic, I think you might need a *slight* attitude adjustment (I say this with all due respect). I know the LW asked for your opinion, and you gave it, and I appreciate your honesty and everything, BUT – since it’s out there, I’m going to point out a couple of your points I have issues with.
First – the whole “Not having to work hard at it” thing, with “it” being SEX. Are you saying that if you DO “work hard at it”, above and beyond the standard “buying dinner, cracking a few jokes, and making the right ‘moves'” (whatever those are), and THEN she has sex with you, it’s ok? Or is it just if you don’t even try that hard and she still wants you that you then lose respect? I don’t get it.
It’s not a game.
And you’re completely taking the woman’s wants/needs/desires out of the equation. Because no matter how hard you “try” or don’t try, doesn’t she have a choice in the matter too? Do you really want it to be an interaction where the guy is always “trying” to have sex with the woman, and no matter what SHE actually wants, she has to fend you off so as not to appear slutty? But if she gives in to her own desires, that means what? That she has no self-control? She must do this all the time? I think men should WANT a woman who is sexually confident and in charge of her own desires. Instead some guys “try” no matter what to “close the deal” (or whatever – I don’t like that phrase) and then when their “strategy” works, they go for it anyway, knowing full well that from here on out this woman will be nothing more to them than a booty call. Yet SHE is the one who did something that deserves a loss of respect? I don’t get it.
My current boyfriend and I had sex on the first date. Five times, as a matter of fact. The fact is, i did it because I wanted to, and if I hadn’t wanted to, I would have said so. Either way, I think the end result would be the same – we would be together because we’re a really good match.
Just keep in mind that women are not always passive receivers of sexual advances whose job it is to keep horny men in check. We have our own desires. And we will make our own “moves” when we want to.
Tracey August 9, 2011, 2:38 pm
Standing and slow clapping your response, CatsMeow. Well said. I’d also recommend everyone on this thread go out and buy Jessica Valenti’s excellent book, “The Purity Myth.” It basically echoes what you just said – that a woman’s worth and moral standing measured by her character and intelligence, not her sexuality or chastity (or lack thereof). It’s an excellent rebuttal to the arguments that women are compelled to be either abstinent or hypersexualized – and frustrated (physically, emotionally, and spiritually) by either narrowly focused, unfairly controlling, restrictive choice.
katie August 9, 2011, 8:05 pm
CatsMeow August 9, 2011, 4:33 pm
Sorry… I guess that was my overly wordy stream-of-consciousness way of asking, WHY would you try your hardest to sleep with a woman and then condemn her for giving you what you want (and, presumably, what SHE wants – assuming she’s a willing participant)?
Tracey August 9, 2011, 4:39 pm
But every word was a gem. No apologies needed.
Nadine August 10, 2011, 6:35 am
My thumbs up was for ‘five times, in fact’.
LTC039 August 9, 2011, 1:47 pm
Yes, we can sit here & ask why do women get the heat & men don’t, but in reality, that’s how it is (it sucks!), unfortunately… I think it’s more up to you. I think there are a number of things to consider in regards to sleeping with someone, let alone on a first date. Personally, I’ve never done it, however, I did sleep with my now boyfriend a week after our first date (& really only had two dates) & it was in a car in his brother’s apt. complex parking lot…So if that’s not “slutty”-ish, idk what is. We’ve been together for 3 yrs & are very happy. Like I said above, it depends on the person & it depends on you. I think Laurel’s advice is very whole & sound. It is scientifically proven that women get attached to a sexual partner (obv. that doesn’t happen to men) & I think that may be why there’s a stigma.
Personally I believe if you are confident in yourself & it shows, then you’ll be fine.
LTC039 August 10, 2011, 1:16 pm
Let me guess. I added a scientific fact & every one is all up in arms saying “that’s SOOOO NOT TRUE”.
Tracey August 9, 2011, 3:41 pm
This thread made me think of a line from one of my favorite films, Dangerous Liaisons:
Vicomte de Valmont: Why do you suppose we only feel compelled to chase the ones who run away?
Marquise de Merteuil: Immaturity?
The Marquise, in that film, also had another line that I’ve adopted as my own personal credo for intimacy: If I want a man, I have him. If he can’t handle the fact that we’ve both had a mutually desired sexual experience, not matter the timing, than that’s his problem – and his immaturity. This doesn’t mean that I sleep with every man I date, nor does it mean that sleeping with him once means I’ll sleep with him every time I see him. It’s about being mature enough to decide whether or not I’m going to act on a desire and attraction I have and he shows.
I’ve found over time that men seem to fall into two camps – the damned if you do, damned if you don’t camp (you’re slutty if you do, a prude if you don’t) or the ones who respect and like a woman no matter what happens at the end of a date. After years of fretting, playing the “keep the horny men in check” game (brilliantly said, CatsMeow), and holding my sexual needs back to fit that game, I’m now at the point where I’ve had it with all that prude/slut nonsense – and the men who subscribe to that point of view.
If I want him – and he me – I have him. How I wish more women embraced that liberating point of view. And more men were honest enough about their desires and needs to embrace a woman who feels that way without all the traditional gender role baggage.
Jena August 9, 2011, 4:22 pm
“Why? Because we figure if it was that easy for us to take it to that level, then it’s probably just as easy for some other guy to take it to that level.”
I absolutely hate this slut-shamey double standard. News flash, dudes of the world: You are not the only person a girl has ever/will ever sleep with.
Tracey August 9, 2011, 4:41 pm
And the more a guy believes that line of slut-shamey nonsense, the more insecure he is about his own sexual prowess and worth.
cookiesandcream August 9, 2011, 6:39 pm
Hi everyone! I’m the LW and thanks so much for everyone’s comments! I have to admit that I liked Dennis’s and Joe’s responses the best (not that I didn’t appreciate what JMagic and David Jay had to say 🙂 ). This really doesn’t change anything, but the reason I wrote in was because I saw an episode of the Dr. Phil show where there was one woman who was desperate for a boyfriend and admitted to having sex on the first date (and really needs to write into Dear Wendy 🙂 ). Then Dr. Phil asked a few guys what they thought about first date sex and they all started talking about how much respect they lose for a woman when she puts out on the first date. I was so shocked and then even more surprised when Dr. Phil told the woman to listen to the men because I felt like he was majorly slut-shaming her. When I asked a few of my guy friends what they thought they agreed and said that they would think less of a woman if she had sex on the first date! I got really confused because my guy friends all had casual sex with women on multiple occasions. Anyway, thanks again for the comments and for reassuring me that not every guy operates under the double standard.
katie August 9, 2011, 7:59 pm
I think Joe nailed it on the head with “Whatever level of respect he had for her before sex will likely be undiminished after (of course, it might have been low before).” I think that generally guys will go into first dates with some sort of expectation, and therefore some sort of respect, of you and of dating in general.
it does totally depend on the situation, because my boyfriend of now 2 and some years and I slept together before even being a couple, or even going on a real date… lol. but it worked out for us. I have thought though of what would have happened if we had not ended up together, and I would have definitely regretted it though… but it felt so right, so I guess i always knew or something…
robottapocalypse August 10, 2011, 1:30 am
Sex on the first date is only removes respect if it is bad sex.
Swati August 10, 2011, 3:26 pm
I would have to wait till I’m secure in a relationship in order to have sex. I’ve only had sex with one person and I know exactly what effect that had on me. It created even more of an emotional attachment for me, and I just wanted to spend more and more time with my boyfriend.
So i know that if I had it on the first date, it would definitely create a false sense of attachment and I would probably form a relationship out of nothing, just because I felt like we were connected. But that’s just how I am.
Sex on the first date can work, but everyone involved needs to be very aware of what could possibly happen.
Lisa July 29, 2013, 4:22 pm
I think it all depends on the guy and how old he is.
I am a 44 year old divorcee and i have been with guys in their 20’s and guys my age and i have noticed that they think differently when it comes to sex.
First of all, What guy is going to turn down sex? NO guy. If its offered it to them, they’re going to take it.
But what i have noticed with the younger guys is they are not mature enough to be in a relationship so they would rather just use a woman for sex.
Most guys my age want a relationship so even if a woman has sex with them on the first date, most of them will call her the next day and will still respect her. Young guys don’t do that.
In my situation…I met this 41 year old guy on a dating site and we met and were instantly sexually attracted to each other so of course, we had sex the first time we met and he still calls me and wants to spend time with me even after having sex with him the first night we met.
I guess this time around, it was different for me when meeting him, i wasn’t so worried about if he was going to respect me after having sex with him the first time we met, i was more confident with myself.
So i think it all depends on the guy and his age.
50+ Shades of Grey October 19, 2013, 12:32 am
I’ve been in relationships with men my age. But no stamina in the bedroom (which is where they like to keep it) weird. Now I’m seeing a young Sparta.
I was in town partying and he had been on my mind for months. I was in a relationship when we met so off limits. We hit it off. Out of a relationship for 4 months and free. I called him from a bar and he was game to see me. Kidnapped him and he spent the weekend at my place.
He’s coming back too. He’s a “yes” man and gorgeous, I’m possibly too into him. I’m a “yes” woman so it all works out.
I think older men try to accommodate women, younger men are more selfish which is honest to me. “I’m not here to go all “snow white” fairy dust on you. I’m here to have fun in any way shape or form and make us both happy for today. That’s all I got for now.” It’s all honest stuff. Older men have more baggage too. Divorce, hate for the ex or still in love with their ex, it’s a big list. And hung up on “old school” ideas about women. So dull and so insulting.
Younger men, not much worrying them. It’s all about the fun. It’s just more easy going rather than easy does it. Older men seem to put on airs, younger men are actually really into being with you and hanging, no golf game tee offs, no sporting shows that HAVE to be watched. No, younger guys will forfeit their schedules, turn off their cell phones and just get into a woman. And when the libidos match.. yahoo! And when you’re having sex wars about who gets to do what to who first. Heaven comes smashing down on you.
Hope we both get enough of each other to write 60 shades of grey.
And as for ‘the day after” it’s cool, “whatever” no awkward shit. Just hang and do what we want to do. Younger men don’t talk about sawing off their arms or “oh shit, what happened”
They know what happened and she is very grateful. That and older men have this thing I call “the ideal” I find it more North American than say European. But if she’s not still wearing her nylons and leather boots during breakfast he’s loosing interest over his eggs and bacon.
Which is just ridiculous and callous. Younger men usually do you while you’re cooking the eggs. It’s their selfishness, their drive to please themselves. And it’s a huge turn on for women who love to be desired. Yes, sex on the first date is grande, second date, more grande.
But to those men who cannot pull it off, who think in your “old school” brains, she’ll want a relationship or the keys to your car or to pick her up at her mothers. Get real. She’s wondering after that distasteful look you gave over coffee, how soon she can get you out.
I’m just saying older men need game to stay in the game. That means you stay focused you keep it fresh and exciting. One should always be making history for their rocking chairs. I want to be 90 and rocking away with a big smile. Time waits for no one. If you don’t exceedingly feel grateful for your sexual moments or dating moments, you’re not trying hard enough to make life rock. Giving your all to get some all is all it takes. And while he takes his I’ll take mine and that’s why I’m still smiling. Einstein must of had an incredible sex life. For he said “imagination is better than knowledge” and it’s nice to bump into someone with alot of imagination. Really really nice. Thank you Sparta man. Again and again and hopefully again.