Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

“I Can’t Believe My Best Friend Invited my Ex-Boyfriend to Her Wedding!”

My ex-boyfriend, “Dan,” and I dated for two years, bought a house together, etc., and it all came crashing down when I realized our dreams did not align fully enough for us to continue our relationship. It ended on fairly good terms up until the house sale, and things seemed to be going as well as they could. I was struggling a bit, but I wasn’t super open about it to any of my friends or family; I figured it was a natural feeling during a breakup.

During this time frame, none of my friends reached out to see how I was doing, and they all seemed to turn on me – pitting me against Dan – this even included my best friend, “Kara.” The first scenario where this become abundantly clear was when my two best friends planned a small getaway with some other friends and didn’t invite me while they invited Dan. No one mentioned anything to me about the getaway until it was too late for me to go, and their reasoning for inviting Dan instead of me was that the trip better aligned with him, and they gave me a “maybe next time.” Naturally I was mad, especially at Kara who knew that I was upset about the breakup.

I didn’t talk to them for a bit after that, but eventually I decided to reach out to Kara. We rekindled our friendship and all seemed well and on the mend. A few weeks later, I asked what she was doing for the upcoming long weekend and she replied “I am going to a friend’s cottage.” Dan’s cottage. My heart was broken. How could my best friend do this to me? I thought she was my ride or die. I felt more betrayed than ever and stopped all forms of communication for months.

I then realized that perhaps I had overreacted and I needed my bestie back in my life. I was dating someone new, and I thought I was moving forward and hoped that maybe Kara also had “learned her lesson.” Everything was going well until she wouldn’t let me come over to her house because her boyfriend didn’t feel comfortable with my bringing my new man around since he and Kara were still friends with Dan. I wasn’t happy and threw a bit of a fit, but I moved on – until I got a text from my ex saying that he had gotten a new job in their town and was going to be living with them. My ex living with MY best friend – how?! Kara defended it by saying that she looked at it as she was helping out a friend and that it was temporary. Well, he lived there for eight months. In this time frame, I was mad, sad, betrayed, hurt – I did not know what to do. He has now moved out, but they go to the same gym and are fairly involved in each other’s lives – I hate it.

In between all of this happening, Kara got engaged, and naturally, even though we had been through all this, she asked me to be her MOH. Honored and excited for her, I obliged, thinking that this is what we needed to get past this ridiculousness. But now Dan is invited to the wedding, too. During this process, I have been doing so much for her – parties, showers and everything in between, and she doesn’t see anything wrong with inviting my ex to her wedding. Am I overreacting? I have a ton of anxiety about seeing him, being in the same room with him, etc. – I feel physically ill to even write this because it gives me such anxiety. I am emotionally distressed about this situation and am almost at the point of – “him or me” – even though I don’t want to do that to her. But I am at a loss. Please help me! — Reluctant MOH

Yes, you are overreacting. Furthermore, I am surprised you are so shocked that Dan would be invited to the wedding. Clearly, Kara and her fiancé are still very close with Dan. They vacation with him, he lived with them for eight months, and, as you said, they are “fairly involved in each other’s lives.” It didn’t cross your mind that he would likely be invited to the wedding?

And, look, you are not “almost at the point” of asking them to choose him or you. You are well, well past that point. That point happened immediately after your breakup, except you never said so explicitly. You simply implicitly expected your friends to choose you over Dan, and over and over they chose him. And every time they did that, you shut down, ignored them for months until you got lonely for them, and then came back, hoping they, too, “learned their lesson.” Well, they – or, Kara, specifically — didn’t learn any lesson. She didn’t miss you as much as you missed her or she would have been the one reaching out to you. But she didn’t. Each time, it was you who reached out. So, what lesson was there for Kara to learn? That if she chose Dan, the friend she apparently enjoys more, you would drop off for a while and then come back to her? Ok. Lesson learned then, I guess.

I can’t tell you why Kara asked you to be her MOH when she clearly doesn’t treat you like much of a friend. Maybe it was an easy way to throw you a bone. Maybe she thought you’d be most likely to do all the leg work a maid of honor does without complaining or playing martyr; I really don’t know. But she didn’t choose you to be MOH because it was what you two “needed to get past this ridiculousness.” That wasn’t even on her mind. The “ridiculousness,” in her mind, was all on your end. You were the one who implicitly expected your friends to choose sides and then dropped off when you weren’t chosen and then came crawling back months later when you got lonely. Kara and the rest of them were simply living their lives. Were they being good friends to you? No, obviously not. But any ridiculousness here was from your continuing to give them a chance to change when it was obvious they had no interest in doing so.

At this point, you have two choices: suck it up and go to the wedding* (and then either bluntly end the friendship with Kara immediately after or fade out over time), OR tell Kara the anxiety over seeing Dan is too much for you and you are going to have to bow out of going to the wedding. Either way, this friendship is essentially over. The truth is, it’s been over for a long time. Playing Kara’s MOH and doing all this stuff for her is not going to change anything. It isn’t going to win over her loyalty and love. She isn’t your ride or die. She apparently doesn’t even like your company as much as she likes Dan’s, and since you require her to “choose a side” in order to remain close to you, you’re already out because the side was chosen a long time ago and you didn’t win. I know that sucks and that you still feel sad and betrayed after all this time. But now you can truly move on, and you can focus on making new friends who don’t make you feel so sad all the time.

* If you do decide to attend the wedding — which is what I would do if I were you if for no other reason than it just looks really bad if you don’t, it needn’t be the end of the world. Here is some advice for how to handle seeing your ex at the event.

***************

Follow along on Facebook, and Instagram.

If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.

49 comments… add one
  • bittergaymark

    Bittergaymark May 7, 2019, 8:30 am

    Honestly, I disagree with Wendy in that I don’t think Kara has done anything THAT wrong… The LW comes off — frankly — as, well… petty and deranged. Grow up. Accept the fact that you were the bad guy in this breakup as, clearly, it wasn’t just Kara who thought so. NEWSFLASH: It was ALL your friends…

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      Ele4phant May 7, 2019, 10:21 am

      Yeah – I get breakups are hard, but this isn’t how grownups act. You don’t make your friends choose. Maybe in the event of abuse or something particularly bad, but this sounds like a garden variety breakup.

      I don’t see how Kara is being a bad friend to the OP by staying friends with Dan. In fact, it seems like she’s tried her best to be sensitive to the fact OP has a hard time being around Dan, so she keeps them separate whenever possible. Perhaps she should be more upfront that she’s hanging out with dan or going to his cottage, but she probably thinks she’s being respectful of your feelings by not being explicit.

      OP – I don’t know how fresh this breakup is, but your friends are allowed to stay friends with your ex. You’ve got to get past this, you’ve got to get over the fact you may in rare occasions have to run into him. Or you’ve got to find new friends if you can’t handle it. But you should, because most mature adults can, and most mature adults don’t try to get their friends to choose.

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        AttackKitten May 11, 2019, 5:07 pm

        Considering how close Kara and her boyfriend seem to be with Dan, I’d say LW is pretty dang lucky that he’s not the best man or a groomsman and was merely a guest.

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    Miss MJ May 7, 2019, 8:35 am

    Honestly, LW, I’m not even sure why Kara still hangs around with you. You’d be way too much drama and work for me. I’m exhausted just reading about your inane emotional outbursts in this letter.

    You haven’t been “betrayed” because your ex boyfriend (with whom you had an amicable break up that it reads like you wanted and initiated) remains friends with the friend group that you guys had when you were together. And, be honest — were they mostly *his* friends, anyway? Sounds like it. Or at least they are now. In any event, grow up, stop demanding that other people arrange their lives and friendships around your drama, and go see a therapist. Something tells me that you’re not as over Dan as you thought.

    Oh, and bow out of the wedding. Yes, it looks bad, but, frankly, that ship has sailed with these people, anyway, and in any event, bowing out doesn’t look nearly as bad as you having a few drinks at the wedding and having a absolute meltdown because Dan exists or something.

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    Hannanas May 7, 2019, 8:54 am

    “It all came crashing down when I realized our dreams did not align fully enough for us to continue our relationship”
    This struck me as a very unapologetic way of saying you broke his heart? If your friends befriended your boyfriend in this two-year period, and it was a nasty break-up from your end, I think it’s normal of them to feel for him, or to pick his side.
    I’d say you owe it to Dan to leave him be, let him have his friends (even if you consider them “yours” as if they have no will of their own) and his social life. Be happy for him – YOU broke up with HIM. What are you even having anxiety issues over? Because you still have feelings for him, or because you’re jealous of the fact that your friends like him so much?

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      Bittergaymark May 7, 2019, 8:59 am

      And then I suspect it was she who made things ugly during the sale of the house. Just a wild guess…

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    brise May 7, 2019, 9:01 am

    LW, you should take Kate, her fiance and Dan as a package. In my opinion, it is especially her fiance who likes Dan and is close to him. Kate goes along.
    She likes you but doesn’t support your post-breakup drama. The fiance resents you for the breakup. And I would resent more him than her : preventing you from going to their place because you have a new boyfriend ? WTF? You all sound very immature.
    Anyway, the breakup didn’t go well, or wasn’t understood by this friends circle, and it is too bad because breakups happen all the time. But you didn’t communicate a lot, and it is now way too late to act on it. Just accept the situation: you know why you ended the relationship and that is enough. But don’t ask your friends to erase Dan. Dan is their friend too. You are as well, of Kara’s (up to a certain extent), but without any exclusivity. So go to this wedding because frankly, it will appear really like a hot mess and a shitty thing to do to withdraw at this point. Your reputation will be destroyed. Be an adult. Of course they are friends with them. But don’t consider Kara as your best friend. Make new friends.
    And work on yourself about Dan. If after all this time, you feel anxious: perhaps once you call Dan and have a coffee with him just to relax and move on. He is an ex, not the plague. Let it go, go to the wedding, make new friends.

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    • bittergaymark

      Bittergaymark May 7, 2019, 9:10 am

      Hmmmm… after dumping him, making things needlessly ugly about the sale of the house, and then becoming enraged that all their mutual friends didn’t just summarily excommunicate him from their ranks… Gee, I somehow rather doubt he will have any real desire to go out to coffee with her…

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    brise May 7, 2019, 9:14 am

    Or to say it in a kinder way: stop synchronise yourself with Dan. You broke up for a reason, so Dan’s presence or whatever linked to Dan isn’t relevant for you anymore. Liberate yourself from this link. This drama is still very much like a link. Unleash yourself for good.

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    Poppy May 7, 2019, 9:48 am

    It sounds like your friends have chosen Dan to be in their life’s for now. Theres nothing you can do about it, even if kara is your best friend and should take your side. Your putting her in an uncomfortable situations with having to explain herself. She shouldnt have to EVER! The only thing negative on karas end is they shouldnt dictate when they are ready for your new guy(s) to come around because of your break up with Dan. It doesnt matter if you were the reason you broke up and your friends shouldn’t hold that against you because at the end of the day its your relationship and your decision on who you want to be with. But you have to also learn how to move on as well.

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    ArtsyGirl May 7, 2019, 9:57 am

    LW – welcome to the world of adulting. Serious, long term relationships will end and unless there is an easily identifiable guilty party (i.e. abuse, cheating) that means friendships will be entangled. You not only expected your friends to take “your side” in the break up, you also threw hissy fits to punish them when you didn’t get your way. Of course they stayed close to your ex. He has done nothing wrong and has behaved with more dignity and maturity then you did. I would say you have two choices – A) stay in the wedding and try to handle it as an adult by accepting that Dan is in their lives and will continue to be in their lives or B) drop out of the wedding and let the friendships die . You cannot control who they are friends with, you can only control your own actions.

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    anonymousse May 7, 2019, 10:23 am

    I’m so curious as to what the breakup was about and how things went south during the selling of the house. You never told any of your friends how you were feeling, and then held it against them that they didn’t reach out to see how you were doing. You were pretending to be fine. And then it all snowballed from there.

    You decided your friends had to pick a side, and they did. Are we even talking about multiple people, or just Kara? She is not your ride or die. You don’t push your ride or die away when you’re angry. And she wouldn’t have chosen your ex over you, if she was your ride or die. Multiple times in your post she chose your ex. That should tell you all you need to know about where you stand, but you don’t want to believe it.

    Go to the wedding, be civil and friendly. Kill them with kindness, and then take a step back and meet some new people. Kara is not going to choose you over him, clearly. Either you accept that and stay friends, or you’ll probably need to move on because at this point the person who is stressing you out and causing your emotional upset is…you.

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    Essie May 7, 2019, 10:35 am

    Unless Dan has cheated on you, verbally abused you, beaten you, or done some other horrible thing to you, there shouldn’t be any expectation that your mutual friends should choose sides. That’s how friendships work in junior high school. As adults? Not so much.

    You’re two grown-ups who dated for a couple of years, realized it wasn’t working, and broke up fairly amicably. You should be able to be in the same room with him for a couple of hours without having an emotional meltdown. People manage to work with exes, co-parent with exes. You can handle the occasional party.

    And seriously, no one has any right to tell another adult who they’re allowed to be friends with. If you really can’t bear to be in Dan’s presence, then you avoid events where he’ll be present. If you want to maintain some of these friendships, see them individually, for “girls’ lunches,” etc.

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    bondgirl May 7, 2019, 10:37 am

    In some of my past breakups there was definitely a trend of who got to keep certain friends….clearly you weren’t that person in your particular breakup – I’m actually wondering if they were his friends before you even got together. Honestly, life is too short to waste it vying for the attention of people who clearly aren’t interested in nurturing your friendship . I would’ve taken the hint after the 2nd or 3rd attempt, so why didn’t you? I think it’ll also help you move on from that relationship cuz I don’t get the impression that you have fully moved on….will it look bad if you pull out from the wedding? Probably. But, not nearly as bad as if you went, got hammered, and stirred up ex drama at this event that is NOT about you. Had someone done that at MY wedding you can sure as shit bet I’d be cutting them out of my life. Do yourself a favor, just remove yourself from the event and start to find new friends. There are so many kinds of meet-ups, young professional organizations, and adult sports leagues options to begin creating a new circle of friends and networking opportunities.

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      Sarah May 9, 2019, 6:56 pm

      It seems weird that Kara asked LW to be in her wedding – given her meltdowns about Dan and the effort her and her fiancé go to ensure Dan and LW don’t cross paths.

      Why would Kara choose a big event for them to cross paths? It seems like the makings of a huge scene at your wedding.

      Also these people are not your friends. Let these friendships go and move on.

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    Ele4phant May 7, 2019, 10:54 am

    As an aside – I kind of went on a double date with my college boyfriend to a mutual friends wedding a few years ago.

    Not really, we’re both happily in relationships with others, but a set of friends knew we all live in the same part of the city and suggested we all carpool together. And then my husband and my ex’s partner were both unable to attend, so it was just the two of us and one other couple driving together to the wedding.

    Then the foursome of us all hung out together at the wedding. It was great getting to catch up with him and be like – oh yeah even though we weren’t the right fit there’s a lot I enjoy about your company.

    Our mutual friends, like your friends, never wanted to choose between us and so they didn’t. We managed to avoid each other for a while (first on purpose, then just the inertia of our lives basically took care of that), but my friends enjoyed both of us and nobody did anything “wrong” (just like with your relationship OP) so they kept their friendships with both of us and neither of us made a stink about it or tried to make them pick.

    Obviously a LOT of time had passed, and we were both in better relationships, so the emotional stakes were much lower.

    But even if it was weird, the wedding was big enough we could have briefly acknowledged each other and then steered clear of one another.

    You can probably do the same OP. You’ll probably be pretty busy as MOH anyways, and in the slack moments, talk to other guests. His very presence shouldn’t destroy your ability to have a nice time and be happy for your friend.

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  • Dear Wendy

    Dear Wendy May 7, 2019, 11:38 am

    From the LW:

    “Thank you for your reply to my letter, I really appreciate it! Thank you for the name additions & such, definitely made the letter more understandable. I think all of the feedback was great and I am feeling a bit better now that I have attained some unbiased, honest feedback.

    I am not sure if you can add an edit for more detail but here are some answers for some questions your readers had
    1. The reason for the break up was mostly me, but because he was controlling, self centered and not trust worthy (we had 7 years of on/off stuff, where there was cheating, online dating etc – no one is perfect but this relationship was doomed from the start)
    2. The friends were my high school friends & “Kara” has been my bestie for 14 years. No one had met “Dan” until I introduced them.

    I think it has become clear that I need to go to the wedding & suck it up and “be an adult” (as many of the readers responded). I really appreciate your addition of the advice of how to deal with your ex at an event – that was very relevant and will be helpful for the day of!

    Thank you again for your help!”

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      LisforLeslie May 7, 2019, 11:53 am

      Wow. with this information then I in my opinion Kara went from “meh” to “raging dumpster fire” on the friend scale.

      Personally, I would back out of the wedding, cut my losses and leave that whole mess behind.

      It’s a hard lesson to learn, but friendships don’t always last. Kara isn’t your ride or die. She’s more of a pair of roller skates and a hangnail.

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      ele4phant May 7, 2019, 12:01 pm

      If you want to stay friends with Kara, you do need to go to her wedding and tolerate being in Dan’s presence.

      But, maybe on reflection, you don’t want Dan in your life in any way anymore, and if he and Kara and her husband have all become close and are a package deal now, you’ve got to move on.

      I *still* want to give Kara the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she still thinks this was a fairly equal break-up, particularly if you were the one to initiate it and move on with someone else before he did. We can never really fully understand what is going on behind closed doors, and I’m sure Dan doesn’t treat her the way he treated you, so she may not understand. And you admitted yourself you never really said anything to anyone about how you were feeling, so they may not know.

      If you want to try having a heart to heart with her about why it’s so hard for you to be around him and how bad your relationship was, do it. But be prepared for her to still want him around as a friend, and maybe the healthiest thing for you to do is distance yourself from the whole situation.

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      Bittergaymark May 7, 2019, 12:06 pm

      How exactly did seven years become two years in your letter?

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        ele4phant May 7, 2019, 12:18 pm

        Yeah, I mean it sounds like while Kara has known the OP longer, she’s also known Dan a pretty long time too. We don’t always keep to claim people just because we’ve known them longer.

        And I think it’s entirely possible that she thinks it was a typical inter-personal problem between Dan and the OP, and not fully realize that he was a particularly bad partner to the OP.

        It can be surprising how little people know intuit about a relationship’s dynamics when they are standing there from the outside looking in; even when they are close to both people in the couple and even when those in the relationship think it’s super obvious to the whole world what’s going on between them. Sometimes other people don’t get it.

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      Sarah May 9, 2019, 6:58 pm

      Don’t go to the wedding!!

      Don’t subject yourself to this mess! Let this friend crash and burn and walk away from the wreckage.

      Kara is NOT your friend.

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        Sarah May 9, 2019, 6:59 pm

        *friendship

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    PPK May 7, 2019, 12:07 pm

    Hey OP, my long term (20+ year) friends kept my ex too. It burns (jealous and insecurity). I know it means we’re all reasonable adults.

    I still want them to have said, “Well, sure he’s nice and all, but we love you and don’t need him.”

    With time, it has improved, but it is not at neutral yet. Hang in there. I’ve had to talk myself out of ghosting and flouncing more than once (no one would win, I would look like a pouty child).

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    Melissa May 7, 2019, 12:45 pm

    I think her friends sound awful!! I would go to the wedding but only bc you already agreed. I cant believe so many people are hating on the lw….

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    ron May 7, 2019, 1:17 pm

    LW describes her grievances in her own terms, marshalling the best evidence she has to bolster her argument of her bff and friends being bad friends, and… she comes off looking like an entitled, selfish, princess. It is telling when your bff and entire friend group choose your ex over you. It means they see you as in the wrong on the house sale problems and/or breaking up with him. Finding out if your dreams are closely enough aligned with a 2-year SO seems as step which simply has to be answered in the affirmative before you buy a house with that person. Since LW chooses not to mention anything about how their dreams misalign, I suspect that she knows full well how selfish her dreams are.

    She seems into punishing people who don’t do what she wants. She seems to think she owns her friends. She seems to think that friends must dump her ex, because she broke up with him. Sounds like she hurt him and the mutual friends rallied round him. They had a lot more facts than we do; they know her personality and character far, far better than we can. They made the choice between her and ex.

    Her basically giving friends the silent treatment when they decided not to drop the ex shows exactly how juvenile and selfish she is.

    If her complaints had any validity whatsoever, she’d be more specific about her issues with friends and ex. I have to assume she cast herself in the best possible light. The picture she paints of herself isn’t a pretty one.

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      ron May 7, 2019, 1:28 pm

      I’ve now read the update and it doesn’t match at all to the original post. Seems another case of an OP changing the story to garner more sympathy. He was controlling; he cheated; he was untrustworthy; this relationship was doomed from the start. I call B.S. If all of the above were true, why buy a house with the guy? She says the breakup was mostly on her and uses strange wording “there was cheating and on-line dating’
      ” and it was off and on for 7 years, not the 2 years of the original post. So, which of them was doing the cheating and on-line dating. She doesn’t say. If it was him, I’d expect it to be mention in OP, not tagged on in vague language now.
      None of this matches with the breakup being largely on her and “it all came crashing down when I realized our dreams did not align fully enough for us to continue our relationship,” if he were the one on-line dating and cheating during the relationship. I guess, given her penchant for cold-shouldering friends after a disagreement, it’s possible he dated and had sex with another woman after she had declared an ‘off’ period and disappeared for a time. I don’t regard that as cheating.

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        Poppy May 7, 2019, 2:07 pm

        “1. The reason for the break up was mostly me, but because he was controlling, self centered and not trust worthy (we had 7 years of on/off stuff, where there was cheating, online dating etc – no one is perfect but this relationship was doomed from the start)” She declares him to be the bad person in the relationship but takes no responsiblity for her actions. Of coarse she needs to make herself look like a victim so she can get sympathy and have commenters change their opinions. I’m with you @ron.

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        Sapphire May 7, 2019, 2:08 pm

        It sounds like it was written by two different people.

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        LisforLeslie May 7, 2019, 2:16 pm

        You’re putting a lot of assumptions in your explanation – like the story changed or the ex did the cheating when they were “off” – and not that the cheating caused the “off” periods.

        Here are my assumptions:
        The OP moved in with the guy based on empty promises that to make sure he was really committed they had to take this step and this was a run up to engagement.

        He’s charming and fun. He owns a cottage. He wheedles his way into people’s lives and says all the right things and does all the right things – if he owns property why does he need to move in with a couple? Because it puts him smack dab in the middle of that triangle and pushes the OP out.

        I’m not saying she’s perfect. Far from it. Running away and then coming back expecting people have “learned their lesson” is just stupid. They didn’t miss her – at least not enough to sit down and say “What the Eff? Why won’t you call me back?” in the first few weeks of said disappearance.

        Point being – these aren’t her friends. She should not spend money being MOH (dress, shoes, travel, showers, bachelorette weekend, blah blah blah) to have this reinforced over and over and over. Bow out. Move on. The friendship is on it’s last legs (if any legs remain) and she doesn’t have to spent $1500 to find that out.

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      • bittergaymark

        Bittergaymark May 7, 2019, 2:24 pm

        It was QUITE the narrative shift… 🙄

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        ele4phant May 7, 2019, 2:29 pm

        “They didn’t miss her – at least not enough to sit down and say “What the Eff? Why won’t you call me back?” in the first few weeks of said disappearance.”

        Counterpoint – I sometimes go weeks without calling my friends (and they don’t call me) because we’re busy. It’s life. I wouldn’t think my friend was mad at me and purposefully distancing herself if I didn’t hear from her in a bit; I’d assume she was slammed. OP has admitted she never really explained how she was feeling. Kara knew she was upset over the breakup, but like normal upset.

        I could be wrong – but I want to give Kara they benefit of the doubt that she has NO idea what is going on in the OP’s head. She has no clue exactly the dynamics of her relationship were and what the breakup was about, she has no idea exactly what OP is feeling or that she is distancing herself.

        Unless OP has had a come to Jesus conversation with Kara about how this guy was controlling and emotionally abusive and it pains her to be around him at all, we can’t assume Kara just gets it because they’ve been friends a really long time.

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        saneinca May 7, 2019, 2:31 pm

        @ron, It is not up to the LW’s friends to judge her breakup. They should have supported her. But they didn’t. They chose to hang with the ex.

        It s clear that while the LW considers Mira her bestie, Kita does not feel the same. Otherwise she would not have invited the ex without even considering the LW’s feelings.

        As Wendy suggested, it is better for the LW to take a step back from this friendship after this wedding.

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        saneinca May 7, 2019, 2:33 pm

        Sorry for the erroneous friend’s names. Blame autocorrect.

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        ron May 7, 2019, 4:15 pm

        L for L —
        They are assumptions directly rooted in her two posts.

        Kara has been her friend for 14 years and seems to be making an effort to hang in as a friend, despite LW’s juvenile behavior toward her and Kara’s view that LW didn’t treat Dan well. All of the friends share this view. Friends don’t behave like that because Dan is fun. They behave like that because something is off about Kara.

        Dan doesn’t own a cottage. He bought the cottage with LW and they sold it. Somehow the sales process soured relations between Dan and LW, who had been in the process of an amicable split. Dan went to live with Kara and her husband, because he didn’t own a place and likely was feeling hurt and lonely. A guy with a woman on the side would have just moved on to said woman.

        I don’t think at all unreasonable to assume that if he ‘cheated’, he did so during breaks ordered by LW. That seems to be her pattern for treating people who don’t do what she wants: walk away and go totally silent. She does that to friends who haven’t committed great sins against her, so I’m guessing it wouldn’t take much to prompt her to do this to an intimate partner. She seems to do a lot of punishing/testing people this way and expecting them to prove themselves by coming back to her with their tale between their legs.

        I don’t see how it’s possible to read her two posts and not sense a huge disconnect between them.

        Something seems ‘off’ about this LW.

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        anonymousse May 7, 2019, 5:05 pm

        It could be his parent’s place.

        I wonder if LW is always this guarded and reactive- if so, people tire of that after awhile. It can take years for that to happen. You grow up and realize you don’t really know your friend and maybe she keeps score and gives the silent treatment as punishment. She is seething, but I wonder if she has ever spoken up and voiced any of this to Lara, she never actually says she does.

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        LisforLeslie May 8, 2019, 6:04 am

        It was a big narrative shift – I’ll grant everyone that point.

        I think @dino said what I wasn’t able to: LW had all the proof she needed that this wasn’t her “ride and die”. A ride and die is going to shoot first and then ask questions. Here, her “bestie” was living with the ex. They were more than social together. Her friends made a choice, and the LW has been trying to figure out how to get her friends over to her side, without success. She’s making them choose, they don’t want to.

        So @ron, you could be right. We will never know.

        Still – I really don’t think the LW should outlay all the costs of MOH. Time to move the fuck on. Let this friendship die.

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        Ele4phant May 8, 2019, 9:35 am

        I think the very concept of having a ride or die is kind of…childish. Shooting first and asking questions later is also a childish way to conduct yourself, I think.

        Granted if one party was particularly abusive or toxic to the other, you would expect the mutual friends to re-evaluate the character of the abuser and maybe drop them. But that’s assuming they know. LW said she didn’t really talk about it.

        To me I see know evidence that the friends are choosing Dan OVER the LW, rather they are choosing to maintain separate friendships with BOTH; LW doesn’t want them to maintain a relationship with him at all.

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        LisforLeslie May 8, 2019, 10:35 am

        Of course it’s childish – the only examples I can think of where I’ve shot first and asked questions later are
        Friend: LisforL – tell my boyfriend/husband/other person they’re wrong
        L: You’re wrong – what was the question?

        The friends didn’t choose – that’s their choice. If the LW wants them to stop being friends with the ex – it’s not going to happen. If she can’t handle it – time to walk away.

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      ron May 7, 2019, 4:22 pm

      SaneInca —
      That might be true if they were HER friends. They may have started as HER friends, but they have long since become THEIR friends, as in her and her ex. They don’t see ex as some appendage of LW any longer. They don’t have to chuck a friend aside in favor of an older friend, especially when they believe older friend is the one who behaved badly.

      If the splitting up couple force friends to choose, then, of course, they will be forced to judge the breakup/the relationship/which half of couple is the more valued friend. Often, the friends dump the partner forcing them to choose one or the other, because they don’t want to choose and resent being forced to choose.
      When you involve an intimate partner in your friend group to the extent that person becomes an integral part of the group and forges close friendships within that group, the original group doesn’t get to demand that the ex be severed from all friendships with members of the original friend group. We don’t own our friends.

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    Ange May 7, 2019, 6:00 pm

    When you add in all the months of not speaking plus the 8 months that Dan lived with these people it’s reasonable to assume these two have been broken up nearly as long as they were together (according to the first letter). OP aside from everything else why are you still so stuck on this whole thing? All your current issues are because you’re stuck on a breakup that happened ages ago. Move on, I’m sure everyone else has.

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    dinoceros May 7, 2019, 10:17 pm

    I guess I’m going to disagree with basically everyone. I do think the you are overreacting in the sense that there have been like 5 times already where the BFF and others have made it clear that they have chosen Dan over you. So, the fact that you continue to be surprised is kind of odd. If you’re actually surprised, then I’m, well, surprised. But I assume that you’re not surprised, you’re just wanting to use each new incident as a reason to be angry or to express your anger.

    The part where I deviate from others is that I don’t see where the LW initially forced her friends to choose between her and Dan. They started making that choice before the LW started getting annoyed with them. And yeah, if my best friends started not inviting me to things because they preferred to invite my ex and wouldn’t let me bring my new boyfriend over because of him, then I’d be irritated too.

    I don’t really believe that everyone here who is acting like the LW is a monster wouldn’t be irritated themselves by this.

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      ele4phant May 7, 2019, 11:02 pm

      I don’t think she’s a monster, I do think it’s unfair to have the attitude that just because her relationship with Dan ends, after knowing him for 2 (7?) years, her friends should all end their relationships with him as well.

      I do disagree that its a given that Kara other friends are being jerks, or even that they prefer Dan over the LW. We’re allowed to maintain separate friendships when a couple breaks up. I know the LW update indicates the relationship was actually pretty toxic, and I’ll take her at her word, but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that all the friends know that too. In fact LW says she didn’t really talk about it with anyone, and couples always have a public face and a personal face, so its entirely possible they thought this was a normal breakup between two people that decided they weren’t compatible, and then maybe shit got a little messy when dividing assets.

      I can also see how the friends’ actions could actually be construed as an attempt to be considerate. They may not have always been choosing Dan over her – they want to keep both as friends – but knowing she was sensitive about being around or hearing about Dan, they weren’t forthcoming about the occasions they were hanging out with him. Perhaps they thought they were preserving her feelings, not deliberately and always choosing him over her. Is that misguided? Maybe, but maybe they thought the LW would prefer to put Dan out of her mind and not hear through the grapevine what he was up to.

      I can also see how perhaps when LW ghosted them that she was actually mad. I can go long stretches of time without talking to friends because we’re all busy. Doesn’t mean anything has changed in our friendship.

      Or maybe they realize LW was doing it because she was mad about them hanging out with Dan, but they felt “Oh, I see. You’re mad we’re maintaining a separate friendship with Dan, and you’re just going to fade out on us then? We still like you too, we want friendships with both of you, but okay then, suit yourself.”

      I might respond like that if I was friends with a former couple – that to my knowledge had a normal break-up – and one of them couldn’t stand us still hanging out with the other. I wouldn’t go chase after the person that decided to end the friendship because I also wanted to be friends with their ex.

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      ele4phant May 7, 2019, 11:05 pm

      I guess what I do agree on is that there isn’t a scenerio where they choose to stay friends with her and they drop Dan.

      They clearly want him as a friend still. I think it’s possible they *also* want to stay friends with the LW and in their minds it’s not choosing or preferring one over the other, but if LW can’t handle being in the same social network as her ex, well there’s not an option where she gets to stay and Dan leaves.

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      anonymousse May 8, 2019, 10:36 am

      I don’t think she forced the choice on them, like there wasn’t a conversation but so many people decide that you’ve taken the other person’s side if they are still friends, invited places, etc. By not shunning him and standing by her they chose Dan.

      I don’t think she’s a monster, but I think she behaves childishly with the silent treatment and obviously is not taking the hint that Dan isn’t going anywhere.

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        ele4phant May 8, 2019, 11:08 am

        “By not shunning him and standing by her they chose Dan.”

        Yeah, if this is how she sees it, that if Dan isn’t excommunicated entirely that means they *choose* him over her, that’s a warped way of looking at things.

        Kara has clearly not NOT chosen to keep LW as a friend. She’s Kara’s freaking maid of honor. They want both LW and Dan in their lives, they’re doing the best to keep them separate, but on occasion they may physically have to be in the same place for something huge like a wedding.

        LW – you’re not with Dan anymore. He is a separate person from you now. We all, including your friends, are capable of maintaining friendships with multiple distinct people. You are a person they want to be friends with. Dan is ALSO a person they want to be friends with. For them, it’s not one or the other. They’re choosing both of you.

        If being with Dan was so traumatizing it’s bad for your mental health to have any tangential connection to him at all, well a) make sure it’s clear what happened because I think your friends think this was a typical breakup, and b) maybe move on.

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  • Miss MJ

    Miss MJ May 7, 2019, 11:22 pm

    The LW isn’t being a monster, she’s being a child expecting that the world and those she knows in it should revolve around her demands and wants. By her own admission, she’s had multiple meltdowns because her friends are also friendly with her ex. That’s an unreasonable way for an adult to behave. The hows or whys are irrelevant. As a grown adult, you don’t get to dictate who other grown adults consider friends. . You can choose to not be near a particular person, sure. You can decline to interact with people who chose your ex over you, as well. Both of those things are within the LW’s control because they’re about her own actions. But she can’t demand that her friends shun that person or that they never invite her and that person to the same event. And, if she goes down that road, she can’t be surprised when she’s the one who stops getting invited — because she’s the problem. Put another way, if the LW feels disrespected and unappreciated by this group of friends (which is her choice), then she should find new friends, not demand they change to suit her.

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    Brise May 8, 2019, 4:05 am

    Yeah, the LW is very defensive, but I wouldn’t condemn her for the breakup. She has the right to break up with her BF. She didn’t confide her feelings to her best friend, maybe Dan stated that he was a victim and put more energy in keeping the friendships, and here we are. Anyway, Kara gave a clear sign of fidelity towards the LW in choosing her as her MOH for her wedding: an important sign. The fiance is a piece of work, but maybe he realised he was a baby regarding Dan’s ex’s new boyfriend. And this couple invited both of the exes to their wedding, so their position is clear: they want both of them as friends.
    The LW should go to the wedding, work on herself about her ex, and after the wedding, consider her feelings. Maybe this isn’t such a drama. Then she can perhaps simply confide to Kara how difficult it has been for her, regarding this ex, but that she respects her friends’ friendships. I think she transfers to her friends her own trouble with this breakup.
    I have noticed one thing about friends: requests of exclusivity don’t work.
    But high school friends evolve in their own way, often away of adulthood. These people still all behave like at high school. LW should make new friends who are not related to her ex and who will fully have her back. And she can confide more, be more open about her feelings.

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    Miss Will December 7, 2019, 4:32 am

    Really surprised at the comments. LW’s best friend has overstepped multiple boundaries and it’s entirely fair and justifiable for her to react the way she was.

    It’s not unreasonable to expect a best friend you’ve had for over ten years to not put you in a position where you’re reminded of your ex who was abusive and cheated. It’s not unreasonable to be upset when they pick this abuser over you on multiple occasions. It’s also not unreasonable to be upset that your new partner can no longer join the fold because they’re continuing a relationship with someone from your past.

    I can’t believe anyone in any good conscious is telling LW she should ‘suck it up’ and go to the wedding. Nobody should have to deal with poor behaviour, disloyalty and a blatant disregard for one’s feelings.

    It’s probably too late now and LW has probably already gone but I hope she picks her dignity and self esteem off the floor, and finds a new friend whose values of friendship are more aligned with her own.

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