Guest columnists and contributors are generously sharing their talents and insights while I’m taking some time to care for my new baby. Today’s letter is answered by prolific DW commenter and social media consultant, Sarah Huffman.
My boyfriend and I have been together for just over a year now. Things moved pretty fast and after five months of dating he moved into my mom’s house with me, although he was working out of town for days on end and wasn’t really ‘living’ there. We moved into our own place roughly six months ago and things have been great. Then one day I came home and there was a link opened on the computer for some webcam sex site. I asked him about it and he told me that it’s a site that he signed up for years ago and he uses it to look at porn (I’ve never had a problem with him watching porn – as long as that’s all it was).
Then a couple of nights ago, we were talking about porn and I had mentioned that site. He seemed to get really agitated about it and I asked him if he had been using it for other things and he told me he wasn’t. He’s not a very good liar. I told him I didn’t believe him, and he started getting angry with me, telling me that I should trust him, etc., etc. I told him if he had nothing to hide, he would log on and show me. He logged on and sure enough, he had been messaging three different girls.
He tells me that he feels awful, that he loves me and he has just screwed up the most important thing ever. I do love him, but I can’t help but have all these questions in my head that he can’t seem to answer. Like why? His reasoning is because he was stupid. He tells me that he only ever talked to them once each, and that he never showed anything on webcam, but I feel like I can’t take his word for anything. I don’t want to become this crazy girlfriend who is constantly asking where he’s going and what he’s doing and being so…distrusting, but I don’t feel as though I have even an ounce of trust left for him at this point.
Is there any hope? How to I move forward, in this relationship or on my own? — Online Heartbreak
Your boyfriend is into live sex. Not videos, not images, but live sex that he can feel a part of. Whether or not your boyfriend showed his peen during his webcam sexcapades is irrelevant; he chose to participate in a sexual relationship with women other than you. This is otherwise known as cheating.
He betrayed your trust and your loyalty. I can’t help being even more furious with him that he would get angry with you when you confronted him about it. A part of me wonders if that wasn’t where the real betrayal took place. He LIED about it, got angry with YOU for seeing through his crappy lie, then pulled the TRUST card, something that he did not even deserve to have in the first place. Can you rebuild things with him? I can’t answer this question for you. If you’re not sure how to proceed, then definitely seek the help of a counselor, whether for yourself personally, or with your boyfriend if you wish to include him in your decision process.
If it were me, I wouldn’t even consider getting back with him until he gave a better reason for his actions other than “I was stupid” (come on, asshole, how is a vague excuse supposed to make her trust you again?), he saw a relationship counselor regularly, and made active affirmations of his commitment to fixing things. Also, I’d probably make him promise to only use good ol’ paper porn in the future (if it was good enough for our grandfathers then its good enough — wait, ew). If your boyfriend just wants you to forgive him without active change in his daily life, then I don’t see how this will work. I will tell you this: if he’s had a longer relationship getting off with webcam girls than he’s had with you, you’re in for an uphill battle.
* Sarah Huffman is a social media consultant who is freelancing art and photography along the way. She lives in Hollywood with her boyfriend, David, and their two cats, Mia and Daphne. She likes spending her free time spying on the neighbors through her window and ruining her boyfriend’s Netflix recommendations by watching bad reality wedding shows and movies starring Sarah Jessica Parker.
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DDL December 1, 2011, 8:04 am
My problem is with the fact that he said he was doing nothing, told you he’d log on and show you, and then the messages were right there. That sounds pretty sleazy to me. It feels like he set you up to find the messages and hopefully you’d (a) join in; or (b) dump him.
And, really, he knew he fucked up long before you knew, but the “screw-up” was showing you.
And just because he’s never shown anything to the girls, doesn’t mean they haven’t shown him what he wanted. I don’t even know if this fits in with watching porn or crossing the line into cheating. But I know one thing – if you don’t trust him, and you don’t like him chatting up girls for sexual release, dump his sorry ass onto the street. However, if this is something you can get over and let him do, then do that instead. I wouldn’t even suggest therapy because I don’t even think he would change his ways… this just sounds way too sleazy to be a legit “I’m sorry, I’m a rotten douchebag; I fucked up”.
SweetPea December 1, 2011, 9:15 am
Yea, this guy is not likely to change. He’ll keep doing it. He might get smarter and hide it better.
If you don’t like it- dump him.
And I’m WAY old-fashioned, but more men should get sexual release from their actual girlfriends and not from porn (on a regular basis anyway). People are too reliant on fantasies nowadays.
Taylor December 1, 2011, 10:08 am
I totally agree.
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 8:14 am
“He tells me that he only ever talked to them once each, and that he never showed anything on webcam.”
Seriously? Come on now. It’s a LIVE SEX website. The fact that he’s claiming innocence in regard to a site whose sole purpose is specifically NOT innocent is lame. It’s like you walked in on him in bed with someone else and he said, “Oh, but I’m not naked yet!” Still counts. More than that, how can he claim innocence after he straight up lied to you? He said he had nothing to hide, then logs in and shows you proof that directly contradicts that. He’s backpedaling, trying to preserve any semblance of trust you might still have in him before you dump him.
The biggest thing you said, however, was “I don’t feel as though I have even an ounce of trust left for him at this point.” If that’s the case, do yourself a favor and MOA right now. Your trust has been broken, for good reason. It’s up to you if you want to stick around and try to re-build that trust…but it’s also up to you to determine if he’s owed that kind of treatment. Don’t stay in this relationship if you’re going to become the paranoid girl who monitors her boyfriend’s computer and other communications…it’d be much easier to dump the guy and find someone who wouldn’t stray from your relationship. They exist.
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 8:44 am
So, I didn’t know there were “webcam sex sites” where people could watch live sex. This isn’t normal, right? And is regular porn, the old fashion, good-enough-for-Grandpa porn (haha, Sarah) really so common? Do you think all the guys I have dated had a stash of porn somewhere? The topic of porn was never raised, so I really don’t know, and I’ve never snooped. But people really get off to porn, and it’s like a regular thing? Is that normal? How have I lead such a sheltered life? Why is this letter making me feel so sheltered and naive?
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 8:48 am
I mean, porn is so… goofy, right? Maybe if Alicia Florick and Will Gardner took off all their clothes and got it on in The Good Wife, then I’d be hooked to that porn.
lets_be_honest December 1, 2011, 9:35 am
Totally read that as Will Ferrell and immediately thought I had majorly misjudged you as a normal person.
Although if you’re into that, you could always just watch Old School.
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 10:25 am
Will Ferrell was pretty damn sexy in Elf.
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 10:46 am
And while we’re at it, maybe if Don Draper got naked with the teacher in his office, ok, I’d really like porn. (The teacher was my favorite of all of Don Draper’s flings.) When is the new season of Mad Men going to start already??! I am so savvy at completely changing the topic. Apologies to all LWs, past, present, and future.
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 10:49 am
No, Rachel, the Jewish department store owner from season 1, she was my favorite of Don’s women, for sure. Least favorite was the artist from seaon 1. This is fun, let’s rank Don’s women. And girls like Bethany don’t count because he has never been into the Bethany’s. Or let’s not. I”m going to go work.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 10:57 am
To what chargecode to you put your DW time? Training and professional development? 😉
I worked in a client service industry – I hated time and expense reports!!!
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 11:02 am
Ha! Business development. 😉
Nadine December 1, 2011, 7:18 pm
I love the tangents! And i would go for Rachel too. She had her shit together.
Sarah December 1, 2011, 12:04 pm
Ug, I couldn’t stand Faye from last season. Something about her bugged me. Oooo, and I saw pics of them filming the new season, and Betty’s wearing a fat suit!! Whaaa? This season is gonna be good.
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 8:49 am
Haha! I’m kind of with you. Both of the serious, long-term boyfriends I’ve had never expressed much interest in it. The most recent ex said he never watched it, never had an interest, because he was getting all he needed in the relationship. I believe him, because he never lied to me about anything. I think, like most things, porn exists on a spectrum. Some guys have a huge interest and need for it on one end, and on the other, there are guys who just don’t care about it (usually because their sex life satisfied them enough without it). Guys probably fall all along that range. I guess I tend to go for the kind of guys who aren’t all that interested in it.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 9:22 am
“…and on the other, there are guys who just don’t care about it (usually because their sex life satisfied them enough without it).”
The tone of that line makes it seem like a woman whose significant other looks at porn isn’t satisfying her man…
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 9:37 am
I should have included – it comes off as very “holier than thou” since _your_ two boyfriends didn’t view it.
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 9:56 am
Not intended that way. My personal theory is that if guys aren’t interested in porn, it’s likely because they feel satisfied without it, for whatever reason. Not because their girlfriend tries hard to make it that way, but because that’s simply the way they’re built.
grendel December 1, 2011, 10:10 am
As a dude, I can honestly say I’ve never met another guy that’s not used pornography, at least when single. It’s one thing when his girlfriend says she doesn’t like him looking at porn because it’s disrespectful and he’s like, ok, gotcha, I’ll stop.
But for a guy to be totally single and say “Porn sure is weird and gross, glad I don’t look at it” is pretty unlikely. Unless maybe he was really religious or something.
As a man I have an insight into male sexuality that no woman ever will because first of all, I am one, I live it every day and also, men just act differently around other men than they do in mixed company (so even if my attitudes towards sex don’t apply to men across the board, my relationships with other men are fundamentally different from the relationships, including friendships, between men and women). Men and women have different attitudes about sex. For men, sexual release is, on some level, compulsive. Men literally ejaculate in their sleep if they don’t climax often enough, as their bodies continue to produce sperm regardless of their sex lives and it has to go somewhere. I’d say a guy that honestly does not look at porn either 1) Does so out of respect for his partner’s wishes and has sex with him/her regularly anyway 2) Has a vivid imagination and imagines women he sees and knows in sex situations while masturbating (arguably weirder than just looking at porn) or 3) Has some sort of sexual hang-up (including religious reasons to not masturbate).
Anyway my point Regina is your guys were feeding a line of crap. Sorry!
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 10:28 am
I’m not naive. I fully believe they viewed porn as single dudes. But, as you mentioned, it’s a different game when you’re not single. They both knew that I didn’t care for porn, and they were both very respectful of that. You can tell me all day long that they were feeding me crap (and if they told me they didn’t like it at ALL, and didn’t watch it while single – then yeah, that’s crap)…but I dated these guys for years, each. While they were with me, I believe they really didn’t watch it, at least 95% of the time. And I’m really glad of that. Call me backwards, call me old-fashioned, call me naive – I just don’t care for porn, and I’m glad I with with guys who could respect that.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 10:42 am
The key is that they knew you disapproved of porn, so that’s not necessarily the same thing as what you were suggesting before. I’m not sure if guys who regularly watch porn watch it more than 5% of the time – 33% of their time is spent sleeping, 33% of their time is spent at work, 20% of their time is eating, 10% of their time is spent watching or playing sports…that’s 96% of their time. 😉
I’m joking, obviously, because I didn’t include bathroom time or time to sit around in their underwear, scratch themselves and think about “nothing”.
grendel December 1, 2011, 10:47 am
Ah, maybe I misunderstood. You said they “never” looked at porn, which I took to mean that they never had any desire to look at porn, but sounds like you meant never did during your relationship.
But I will say that your thinking that you satisfied them enough to undo their pornographic inclinations may be giving yourself too much credit, frankly. What’s more likely is that they respected your expectations of a relationship (or to put a cynical spin on it, were afraid of getting caught).
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 10:53 am
Yes, misunderstanding has occurred haha. When I said “never” I didn’t mean “never in their life,” I meant “never during the course of our relationship.”
And secondly, I never said that I satisfied them enough to undo their inclinations. That was totally misunderstood, too, by more than just you I think. I definitely think their impetus to not watch it was spurred by my dislike of it. But I also think that guys are far more likely to tone down the porn watching, whether just a bit or even altogether, when in a relationship…simply because they’re getting sexually stimulated on the regular. Just my theory.
Will.i.am December 1, 2011, 9:26 am
Porn to an extent is very dangerous in a relationship. I only tend to watch it when I’m single. I don’t want to be “experimenting with video fantasies” when I’m in a commited relationship. To me, that just screams pandoras box.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 9:29 am
I can understand your point relative to the live sex webcam in this letter, but are you suggesting that a site like youporn is dangerous to relationships?
Will.i.am December 1, 2011, 9:59 am
I’m saying it can get to the point where you are pushing your mate too far out of her comfort zone. You can see just about anything your mind can think of in XXX form. What happens if you see something you want to try, but your SO doesn’t want to try it? Then you keep pushing the issue and they start to get insecure and feel less adequate.
If you open your mind up to too much, it can be very dangerous to your partner, if you are suggesting something that they don’t want to do. That’s the dangerous aspect that I’m talking about with porn.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 10:04 am
You’re blaming porn for a behavior that is more about a lack of respect. If a person respects their significant other, they’re not going to “keep pushing the issue” for _anything_ that they know is a personal boundary for their significant other.
Will.i.am December 1, 2011, 10:14 am
But porn can ultimately cloud your judgement if you let it. Just like any other addiction. Not saying that anyone who watches porn is addicted, but it’s a gateway platform.
Not trying to argue my point by any means. Just trying to open the mind to think a bit outside of the box of how a relationship can be damaged.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 10:49 am
It’s like anything in life – it _can_ cause an issue if it’s “abused”, but to condemn porn as being damaging to a relationship is fallacious. Porn, in and of itself, is not “the” issue.
Will.i.am December 1, 2011, 11:05 am
I’m not condemning it at all. I have some friends who watch it together as a couple, but I also have friends where one party likes it and the other party is disgusted by it.
Britannia December 1, 2011, 11:39 am
I agree, PFG. It’s my opinion that mens’ sexualities tend to be multidimensional – there is the side that needs intimate sex, and the side that has kinky (or fantasy-based) interests that need to be satisfied. Sometimes the very basis of those kinky interests is that their girlfriend is not the one fulfilling them. As long as my boyfriend isn’t interacting face-to-face or flesh-to-flesh with anyone else, I let him do whatever makes him happy… and he’s quite happy with that because all of his needs are being filled.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 12:36 pm
I agree, Britannia, but it’s not just mens’ sexualities – it really just varies by person. Even women can be multidimensional. 😉
Simonthegrey December 3, 2011, 4:13 am
Totally agree – my BF may have been the one watching porn (I know he did, and I know he doesn’t now, although I have told him that I don’t care as long as it is nothing with tentacles or cartoons or kids) but I would venture to say I am the kinkier one. I don’t like porn because it doesn’t DO anything for me, not because I have a prudish hangup about it. I don’t watch it, but I don’t mind some experimentation.
bethany December 1, 2011, 10:34 am
I’m pretty sure my husband watches it occasionally when I’m away for the weekend or something, but not on a regular basis. I think most guys are at least a teeny bit interested in it, right?
caitie_didn't December 1, 2011, 12:07 pm
I’m a Dan Savage fan, so I take him at his word and assume that every guy looks at porn, and the ones who deny it are just lying. I also don’t think it has anything to do with how satisying their sex life is, and I don’t particularly care as long as it’s not 1). interfering with our mutual sex life, and 2) illegal or seriously freaky stuff.
Meredith December 1, 2011, 1:29 pm
I’m so glad to see another woman who doesn’t think porn is a big deal. (Also, high five on the Dan Savage reference!) People are sexual beings and no matter how much you may love your SO, no one can fulfill EVERY need the other has. I really don’t understand women’s hang up on porn. Are you so insecure that you can’t handle your man seeing another naked woman EVER? Why not make it part of your sex life and watch it together? That way you control it AND become the hottest woman ever in his eyes.
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 2:06 pm
This. When I first got with my husband, I’d seen my share of magazine porn, but only jokey-cheesy-type movies. He had an entire stash of movies, photos, stories, etc. saved on his computer. He thought it was hilarious that all I knew was Playboy/Hustler and like “Pizza Guy/Plumber” movie storylines. So he showed me that it was not at all like that. And I was intrigued. I was also laid-off at the time, so I spent days scouring the Interwebz for it and more sex-positive stuff (like Dan Savage & Violet Blue). I even ended up contributing to his stash as I’d find more photos/videos in my travels.
And you know what? SCORE FOR ME. I got first-hand insight into MY OWN sexuality, which made me a better partner for him. I learned what he likes visually, what *I* like that I didn’t even know about, a few tips & tricks of my own, how to be more comfortable in my own skin – because not every woman in porn is a blonde size 2 with big fake jugs & he’s the kind of man who appreciates women of all shapes, sizes, ethnicities, etc. In fact, before me, he was always an ass man. He loves girl butts & it was obvious to me by the content of his stash. After we had been together for some time, I slowly noticed that there were lots more boobs in that stash. I eventually asked him why, and he very sheepishly explained that since he’d been with me, his Breast Appreciation had gone way up. How freakin’ sexy & confident did that make me feel?!
It helped that I was not immediately repulsed by it. Some women are & although I don’t understand it, I can accept that. It also helped that he has always been very invested in letting me know that I’m his #1 girl. I never had to feel threatened by porn because quite simply, photos & videos can’t do what I can for him. ::finger snaps:: 🙂
Meredith December 1, 2011, 2:40 pm
Exactly. I think more people should read Dan Savage. I thought I was sex positive before reading his archives but I really learned a lot about sexuality and acceptance from him. Now I am truly GGG and it has even inspired my fiance and I to explore opening our relationship some, which has actually strengthened and revitalized our relationship even more. (Read his articles here:
Sex (and porn as a result) is natural, but we Americans especially tend to be very prudish about it (thanks Puritans!). I think what women who are insecure about porn should realize is that the act of your man watching porn is not indicative of your inadequacy or a lack of interest in having sex with you.
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 8:52 am
And as for the live sex sites, I knew they existed, and that’s about it. I did read a really interesting article on xojane recently about a plus size girl who worked behind the camera.
SaraRosie December 1, 2011, 9:47 am
That article was amazing, thanks for sharing!
camille905 December 1, 2011, 9:04 am
Some people watch more porn than others. My boyfriend and I both look at porn online (separately) for solo activities, usually when the other isn’t available (probably a couple of times a week). I have no problem with this. Some porn is crazy and stupid and some is pretty good but it’s not for everyone.
I don’t know about guys having a stash of porn, though I know a few guys who keep a folder of some of their favorite pics/movies on their computer. But yes it is a regular thing that people get off to porn.
meaghan December 1, 2011, 9:17 am
My husband and I regularly use porn either with each other or on our own, and we’re pretty open about it. In my past relationships they have all watched it at least occasionally, and from my Guy friends discussions its been made pretty apparent that most guys lie about it if they think their girl would make them stop if she knew. Personally, I think it can be a great tool for couples to explore each others interests and is just fun to watch if you have an open mind.
FireStar December 1, 2011, 9:59 am
I had a crew of guy friends and every last one of them watched to some degree and not one of them told their girlfriends about it. To them it was no big deal but they doubted the girls would think that. Even if the girl was open minded – they didn’t want to risk a fight over nothing so they said it wasn’t their thing. To me it was one of those standard white lies – like “no honey your ass doesn’t look big in that.”
grendel December 1, 2011, 10:22 am
Right. I think when girls think of guy watching pornography or watching a stripper or something they think something like he would have sex with the porn lady than his girlfriend, which in most healthy relationships isn’t the case at all. A devoted boyfriend can have his favorite porn lady from his favorite porn video stomp right up to him was he’s in line at Starbucks and BEG him to do all the awkward, weird sex from the porn videos that his girlfriend won’t do and he’d still be like “Um, no, leave me alone.”
Like most people men are complicated and men and women generally have pretty different views on sex and sexuality. See my post above if you want.
SweetPea December 1, 2011, 9:18 am
So glad you brought this up.
I feel like porn is great for single guys who are having trouble getting some and guys who have to be away from their love interests for long periods of time.
But, if they have a loving partner willing to “put out” (LOL)- porn seems like a real waste of sexual energy.
And is super goofy.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 9:27 am
Your whole comment seems so judgmental – there are plenty of people with active sex lives that enjoy porn. You may not and/or you may not understand that, but it’s not some dirty shameful “thing” that only those “hard up” for sex view.
SweetPea December 1, 2011, 9:53 am
Okay, you’re right. I do not know every person. And it’s not my thing. Sorry for the judgmental attitude.
I would really just rather my man spend intimate time with me than his computer. I have had that experience where my previous boyfriend LOVED him some internet porn… but stopped having sex with me. It was like he couldn’t get off without the some fake broads on the internet. Yuck. And it has really soured my opinion of it all. So, I let my past frustrations get the best of me here.
How many times do we see this kind of letter on here “My boyfriend did such & such on the internet, what should I do?” I have just seen a lot of unhealthy relationships come from it. A lot of trust issues. A lot of people that become obsessed with a fantasy. A lot of people that take it too far.
But, I am sure there are happy people thriving with it all. Just not my thing. And I am glad my current relationship has plenty (almost daily) of good old-fashioned real live sex.
But, if it IS your thing- not for me to say!
That’s the best I can do for an apology 🙂 I am terrible at conflict.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 11:06 am
No apology necessary, and I understand that you’ve had a negative experience with a significant other’s porn habits…I’m sorry.
Britannia December 1, 2011, 11:43 am
I just want to say that two people in a relationship CAN have different views on porn and still be happy together. I am a person who does not masturbate or look at porn, EVER. Neither things work for me and I generally just find both the practice and the theory awkward. However, if my boyfriend likes porn, I just ask him to keep it somewhere that I can’t find it and to respect my boundaries (I don’t want to walk upstairs and find him jacking off, for example). I’ve never had a boyfriend complain, because as long as it’s understood that they can do what they want during their private time, then they’re getting all their needs fulfilled.
leilani December 1, 2011, 9:35 am
Yeah, for me it has no connection to how satisfied I am by my partner. When I am single I probably watch it more just because I’m alone more/have more free time, but whether or not I want to doesn’t reflect the status of my sex life. Its just fun to watch, haha. The only guy I’ve dated seriously watched porn, but I don’t really know how often. I never took it to mean anything about me or our relationship, so I never felt the need to ask too many questions. Obviously he would pick me over porn any day, but I’m not at his house and ready to go every time he gets a boner.
Mainer December 1, 2011, 9:37 am
Actually, the more sexually active you are the more likely you are to masterbate. It’s kind of like crack – you need your fix more. So you could almost argue that people in a relationship who look at porn actually have a great sex life.
leilani December 1, 2011, 9:45 am
And I always preferred when my boyfriend masturbated regularly….then he would last longer….
Fabelle December 1, 2011, 9:46 am
I agree with this, I feel that for most people masturbating energizes their sexuality rather than drains it. Also, every guy I know watches porn. Like, every one. I think their willingness to admit it depends on the attitude they’re perceiving from you. There might be a few guys who don’t, but…do they not own a computer?
I look at porn myself, though I do think most videos are goofy & I have no patience to watch them all the way through. And I think visiting live webcam sites is sleazy to do while in a relationship– and if you’re single & think you won’t wanna stop visiting your webcam sites next time you’re in a relationship, you should probably wean yourself off now?
grendel December 1, 2011, 9:58 am
Are you actually wondering if a sizable percentage of the population peruses pornography? Is this your first time using the internet? Do you think porn “stars” get filmed having sex just for fun and receive no compensation? Sorry to blow your mind here but some people have different attitudes about sex than you.
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 10:18 am
Yea, I actually am. Because in my mind – somewhere in the back of my naive mind – it’s not what the majority of people do (and the minority of people who do must be major repeat customers because, yes, I am aware it’s a lucrative industry.)
Like, for example, I’m sitting here in my office, and there are 12 attorneys on my wing of this floor. 8 men, ages 40 to 68, all married with kids. And 4 women (late 20s / early 30s) who are all single. (Weird, I just noticed that.) Anyway, now I’m wondering (slash, DYING to know), do they all regularly look at porn? I would’ve said “oh of course not.” But now maybe not.
grendel December 1, 2011, 10:39 am
guys married with kids probably don’t have the privacy or time but they would if they could, yeah. ladies: i dunno, it’s possible, wouldn’t bet on it.
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 12:30 pm
I would. There are a number of VERY female-oriented porn sites, stories, books, movies, etc. There’s even a specific sub-genre of porn geared toward women because their consumption is that high & typical male-oriented porn just doesn’t necessarily turn women on or visually appeal to them the way it does to men.
Violet Blue is a sex columnist/writer who has discussed female pornography consumption for quite some time. Wiki:
Here’s Violet’s site, NSFW, obvs.
meaghan December 1, 2011, 2:20 pm
They probably look on their phones. That’s what we do since we don’t have computers or TVs on our bedroom(s)
leilani December 1, 2011, 10:42 am
Personally, I’d say about 1/2 of my girlfriends (that I’ve discussed it with) watch it at least semi-regularly. Basically every guy I’ve talked to does. This is a very small sample size though, not to mention a biased one.
Meredith December 1, 2011, 1:36 pm
Addie, I hate to say it but you are naive. Let me dispel this for you – EVERY guy you have ever known has watched porn at least once in their life. MOST of them watch it on at least a semi-regular basis. As cheesy as it sounds, men really do have a biological need for climax, as grendel mentioned in a previous comment. Plus they generally tend to be very visual so the image of a woman having sex is a powerful one.
I understand that some women think it’s weird and awkward but I would argue that that has more to do with their hang ups about sex/their own self esteem than anything else.
Nadine December 1, 2011, 7:42 pm
I hate the ‘men have a powerful need to climax’ thing. Can we say ‘people’? What about priests? (I realise not all keep to their vows, but some must, right?) Or men with low sex drives? What about women who want sex all the time? I just dont think its helpful to put it all on men.
Not to start a fight 🙂
Addie Pray December 1, 2011, 9:30 pm
For the past couple of years I have wanted sex all the time. I blame my 30s.
McLovin December 2, 2011, 4:29 am
doesn’t Southwest Airlines fly into Midway from Las Vegas now? I’ll have to look into this tomorrow.
Addie Pray December 4, 2011, 10:58 pm
haha, i just saw this. yes, it flies straight to midway. see you tomororw? ha!
Betty Boop December 1, 2011, 9:55 pm
In this instance it actually is a biological imperative in men to regularly climax. *Strictly* evolutionarily speaking, women having a climax is just a happy accident, it serves no actual (biological) purpose. Many other species procreate quite easily without the females willingly participating, let alone climaxing, so we are very lucky! Studies into sexuality of priests (yes, scientists have studied this!) have suggested that the sexual urge is, with varying degrees of success, sublimated into various rituals of the church. Most often reported is turning to prayer when tempted by sexual thoughts, while some use acts of contrition, or even resort to physical punishment to redirect the urges into a “better” purpose or associate it with negativity to decrease the frequency. Many frankly expressed that the desire never went away and that it was a constant struggle to understand and uphold their vow.
Yes, this is off topic but your response felt so knee jerk to the use of men having a different sexuality than women that I had to address it. Not everything is about gender roles/preferences, some things are about biology.
Meredith December 2, 2011, 1:31 pm
Thank you Betty, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Honeybeegood December 3, 2011, 10:14 pm
Women are more likely to conceive when they orgasm so it does have a biological purpose.
twiglet December 4, 2011, 2:06 pm
disagree that women who don’t watch porn have hangups. I love going for a good hill-walk but have no interest in watching other people walk up hills. Maybe when I get too old to walk anymore, I might- and maybe I’ll feel differently about porn then too. But for now- meh, I’ve never been bored enough to want to. Plus I really don’t like pink as a colour.
twiglet December 4, 2011, 1:57 pm
not sure if porn having become more acceptable has led to more people admitting they use it, or feeling that they are a bit straight-laced if they admit they don’t! Either way, it’s good that it’s all out in the open.
I’m not keen on it myself, though I am happy that other people enjoy it, especially now the industry is more open and therefore the working conditions are better for most.
My S.O. couldn’t care less about it and is amazing and considerate in bed- previous partners who were very into it–MUCH less so.IMO it can (can, not does) make (some) watchers jaded and thrill-seeking, and more into the act than the meaning or emotional content thereof.
Addie- not liking it doesn’t make you a freak. It used to be shame to admit to- now it’s shame not to love it- but there have always been those whose boat it will never float, and there always will be.
Taylor December 1, 2011, 10:12 am
Addie Pray,
I don’t know how normal it is – I’d say with ~1/3 of the guys I know it’s pretty regular. There’s a lot of guys that are also just not into it. And then there’s a few who have actual problems with it – wiki’s got a decent entry at: . I think that much like strip clubs, it’s something a lot of dudes outgrow when they have an actual woman at home.
GatorGirl December 1, 2011, 11:02 am
My BF (and I occasionally) both use porn as a part of our sexual relationship. His libido is much much higher than mine so porn serves as purpose in our relationship. Usually I know when he is having his time…heck in usually in the other room. But our arrangement allows for him to release his sexual frustration in an open and understood way, rather than hiding it from me.
Porn can definetly be negative in a relationship, but it can also be really positive.
mandalee December 1, 2011, 2:56 pm
My husband and I are the same way, except sometimes it’s me with the high libido and him with the low libido or vice versa. He hid it from me at first, like I was his mom. Until one day, he was looking through my computer and was like hey, why is “enter porn website’s name” on here? and I was like yeah, well you traveled last week, so, ya know…. haha He got the message, and we’ve openly used it separately and together ever since. It doesn’t always need to be a negative thing.
FireStar December 1, 2011, 8:20 am
Clearly he broke your trust, and given his weak attempt to hide it, knew that he was breaking your trust. Can you overcome cheating? Maybe. It depends on how much work he is willing to put in into rebuilding your trust. And how much time you are willing to invest in giving him that chance. I also think it turns on the nature of the offense. While virtual cheating is less severe, at least in its consequences than physically meeting a girl in a hotel room, any behaviour that is chronic is hard to overcome. I understand that he is your boyfriend, but he isn’t your husband and father of your 2.4 children. I would think strongly about what the best case scenario is likely to be in this circumstance. Is that the life you want for yourself? If you can’t ascertain that on your own then a couples’ counsellor may be able to help you. There is definitely no quick fix to this though.
fast eddie December 1, 2011, 8:40 am
Back off a couple of notches Sarah, you don’t have enough info to come down on him as hard as you did and made a quantum leap in assumptions and judgment about his behavior. He’s into the site for reasons of his own among which may be that the LW isn’t completely fulfilling his needs. A far better resolution would be to talk to him about what she could do to for/with him such that he gets what he wants up close and personal. Warm flesh trumps anything with a wire connected even if it’s interactive.
Allison December 1, 2011, 9:26 am
If he wasn’t being satisfied, then he should have started that conversation on his own. It’s not her job to follow him around and make sure he speaks up about his needs. He’s an adult and can voice his own concerns.
Fabelle December 1, 2011, 10:15 am
I don’t know… I don’t think any amount of talking about his needs would have helped. People don’t generally visit porn sites (or webcam sites) because of things they aren’t getting at home– the experience is completely different than a sexual experience with a partner. She can’t turn herself into 3 different strange girls and provide unique interactions with her boyfriend via webcam. I’m not saying the virtual experience is better, but it’s just so obviously an issue separate from the relationship.
Britannia December 1, 2011, 11:45 am
I wish I could like your comment more than once, Fabelle. There is this notion that porn is all about needs that COULD be fulfilled by a girlfriend, but that simply isn’t the case in reality. Porn is a whole different ball game than real, intimate sex. And I’ve found that some men with “kinks” only want to fantasize about them, not actually realize them.
Meredith December 1, 2011, 2:44 pm
Yes! People are hardwired to crave new experiences, sexual or not. I would argue that his desire to watch porn/webcam sites is completely separate from his desire/feelings for her.
Carolynasaurus December 1, 2011, 9:06 am
Let’s break your options down:
1) You blindly trust him and, odds are, he behaves fora while. But eventually, maybe months or years down the line, he will screw up again.
2) You go to counseling and swear to move on. However, you can’t trust him entirely yet so you make him get rid of the webcam and secretly install software that monitors EVERYTHING he does on the computer. A couple of weeks later, you find something to scream at him about, he tries to pull the trust card again, and explosion ensues.
3) You realize the trust is too broken to repair and you move on.
See what I’m saying? You aren’t really with any good options. You just need to determine which one you can live with and proceed with caution. Sorry.
Allison December 1, 2011, 9:30 am
The big problem here is that he lied repeatedly and didn’t fess up until your proof was right in front of your face. In my mind, that makes it extremely hard to trust him going forward because even if you ask him an honest question, he may or may not be telling the truth. That, of course, is true of anyone, but with him, you know it’s a strong possibility. He may have learned his lesson, or he may have just learned to be sneakier, in which case, this situation could crop up again one day, or in the form of another woman in the flesh.
leilani December 1, 2011, 9:42 am
I guess I’m not too strict about this kind of thing, but I probably wouldn’t break up with him over this if you guys have had no other issues with infidelity in the past. I wouldn’t force him to go to counseling, either…I don’t really think there’s anything here to suggest that he is mentally unbalanced and has issues. He just messed up. As virtual sex with strangers is kinda in the gray area between a fantasy and cheating, I can see how he could’ve started doing that without feeling like it was a big deal. The biggest issue, in my mind, is that he covered it up and lied about it, so he obviously knew that you would not be okay with it. I would give him some time to let him rebuild the trust and prove that that was just a stupid slip-up, not indicative of a bigger problem in his character.
I say that as someone who wouldn’t be that bothered by my boyfriend having webcam sex though….if its a big deal to you and you feel like you won’t be able to trust him again or get past it, that’s completely understandable. Just listen to yourself, there is no “right” answer.
Budj December 1, 2011, 9:50 am
Hold on…clarification needed.
I have never used a webcam site – in my opinion they are a waste of money (so much free pr0n on the interweb), but if this guy was just “messaging” women that just means it was like interactive porn. You talk – they do, kind of like online stripping. Not an unforgivable offense, but if you aren’t comfortable with it then tell ask him to find/stick to other porn outlets…which should be easy enough if he isn’t “addicted” to his apparent preferred style.
Now if he was actually exchanging web cam video shots of himself (I’ve never heard of this, but maybe there are online communities that do this) then that is something that could be considered cheating in a monogamous relationship (imo).
tom July 15, 2017, 7:49 pm
I didn’t realize that there are still people living in 2017 that didn’t know what cyber sex is. Come on.. your joking right. You log on a free webcam site, turn your little web cam on. Aim it at your bed, get naked and grab your favorite sex toys and start pleasuring yourself for who ever has been matched up to your site. You watch him/her doing it, and they watch you giving the performance of your life. And you both comment or just talk to each other and tell each other what turns you on. Until you climax. I know you have heard of Skype. Well next time take your clothes off. And taadah.
Jess of CityGirlsWorld.com December 1, 2011, 9:55 am
Wow, very interesting dialogue going on here. I’m pleased to see some people coming forward to talk about their use of porn and their openness with their partner. Bravo to them. I am much more in line with that way of thinking. Respectfully, I don’t agree for the most part with Sarah.
I’m also trying to honestly ask myself how I’d feel if this happened in my relationship right now (been together similar length of time). I have stumbled across porn links on my BF’s computer (seemingly video links though I didn’t click) and I actually (mostly) was pleased to see it there because I like the idea that he’s keeping that part of his life active. I almost see it like exercise (so he’s ready for OUR interactions which are the “games”!). I think the tricky part is the live web cam vs video/magazine porn. Meaning, its the interactive element that puts this on (or over) the line of what I would consider acceptable.
I think that YES most men absolutely have a stash of porn and/or look at porn semi-regularly. Um, so do many women! (especially those in their 30s and at their sexual peak! women in your 20s: you’ll see!!) And the content, frequency, and dependency vary. Does it mean that a guy is not satisfied with his partner? It could but in most cases, not at all! It’s often a healthy way to explore fantasies, taboos, or just variety. You might explore things in porn that you want NO PARTS of in real life or with your partner. That’s why its a fantasy. Generally, a safe one that has no impact on any real person.
I would also like to add that the normalcy of this probably increases with the length of the relationship. And like someone said, there is a spectrum here. If my boyfriend of 4 months (a stage when I’d expect to be in the throws of passion with each other!) was watching a lot of porn (and/or live porn!), I’d be worried. After 5 years? I’d say it’s a healthy outlet, maybe even a way to PREVENT cheating.
As for the live stuff, again, I don’t know. In theory, I’d like to say its acceptable (though uncomfortable). In reality, I can’t say that I wouldn’t be hurt if my BF was engaging in this kind of virtual relationship.
We’re human beings. Sexual, curious human beings with access to volumes of pornographic material thanks to the internet. I don’t think its wrong to explore that so long as you are not actually straying from your partner. MANY women see this as a betrayal and so men hide it. But I think we can all afford to add some compassionate realism into the picture here. Yes this is an issue of trust. But if we put up unrealistic barriers for our partners, we make it nearly impossible for them to establish trust with us.
Not everyone will agree, I realize, but that’s my take.
PFG-SCR December 1, 2011, 10:21 am
I agree with you, and I didn’t have time earlier to write a long comment that explained my thoughts, so I’m glad you did. People use porn in different ways, and it’s important to understand if it’s just a complement to an existing sexual relationship, or if it’s a replacement due to insufficient sexual intimacy. The former isn’t a bad thing, and obviously, the latter is a concern. But, as I’ve mentioned above, there shouldn’t be an automatic assumption that it’s the latter.
lk December 1, 2011, 10:22 am
This is exactly what I wanted to write.
Jess of CityGirlsWorld.com December 1, 2011, 10:25 am
Thanks for backing me up friends!
TaraMonster December 1, 2011, 11:33 am
“if we put up unrealistic barriers for our partners, we make it nearly impossible for them to establish trust with us.”
This. A hundred times this. LW’s dude (while he should NOT have lied) probably didn’t feel safe enough to be honest. And I’m not saying it’s the LW’s fault at all, either. Experience has undoubtedly taught him that this particular sexual outlet is frowned upon by his lady lovers. The comments on here are a pretty clear indication of that attitude. It’s up to the LW to decide whether this is a dealbreaker for her. And regardless of whether they stay together, LW’s boyfriend needs to start being honest about his needs or he’s just going to keep losing out on great relationships.
Jess of CityGirlsWorld.com December 1, 2011, 12:42 pm
It’s a toughie for sure. I know when I was in my early 20s, this would have been a deal breaker. Now in my 30s, I don’t see it that way. Is it maturity, cynicism, sexual awareness? Maybe all of the above.
But to be fair, LW does seem ok with his/their watching porn. It’s the live interaction that has her upset which I can understand. The lines are blurry, that’s for sure. Boundaries and clear communication are essential but SO is an open mind.
AndreaMarie December 1, 2011, 9:59 am
The problem here isn’t about what he did or didn’t do on the website, it’s that he straight up lied about it. If it was an innocent thing he would have told you the details about it upfront. Instead he lies repeatedly to your face and pulls the “you’re being one of those crazy girlfriends” when you question him on it, only to find out that, wow, he was actually lying. This isn’t about porn its about trust. If he can look you straight in the face and lie about this, what else could he lie about. Where there is no trust there is no relationship.
2_J December 1, 2011, 10:22 am
Where’s BitterGayMark when we need him….
And BTW, Watching a porn site, or a live sex site is NOT cheating Sarah.
Jess of CityGirlsWorld.com December 1, 2011, 10:23 am
OMG, had the same thought. He’ll come in here and rip the porn nay-sayers apart I think. EEP!
Kate B December 1, 2011, 10:46 am
Everybody’s definitiion of cheating is different. it’s cheating if one of the involved parties thinks it’s cheating.
lets_be_honest December 1, 2011, 11:11 am
…if they discuss it before the “cheating” occurs.
Thanks for your comment though. I find it wildly frustrating that commenters will scream their opinion and bash other’s just because they have different definitions of acceptability. Whether the topic is porn, cheating, abortion, etc., lets remember people have seriously varying opinions about things. It doesn’t make it right or wrong. For as right as you may think something is does not make it actually right. It makes it your opinion. If some look at porn as cheating, then to them its cheating.
I usually agree with most commenters, but there are certainly a couple things on here the majority and I are totally opposed. I still however like to hear the opinion and can be open to listening without saying you are wrong. I don’t think they’re wrong because they disagree. I don’t think I’m necessarily right either. Opinions, whether majority or not, are just opinions.
ReginaRey December 1, 2011, 11:34 am
I agree with this. It’s my OPINION that I dislike porn, and don’t choose to include it in my serious relationships. Thankfully, my boyfriends have all been very respectful and understanding of that. I don’t think my view is RIGHT, I just think it’s what’s right FOR ME. There’s a lot of judgi-ness swirling in this particular post.
Sarah December 1, 2011, 11:26 am
I went back and forth in this is my head over and over whether I’d use as harsh a word as cheating. So I broke down what happened. The LW’s boyfriend interacted with live women, watched them have sex while pleasuring himself. Any interactive relationship with another woman of a sexual nature that is not agreed upon in the relationship is CHEATING. Porn is so waaaaaaaaaay different that there is no grouping the two.
mandalee December 1, 2011, 3:00 pm
Yeah, I’m with Sarah on this one. I love porn and I’m a chick, but if the boyfriend is interacting with “live porn” then that’s a whole other monster. I would be just as freaked out as the girlfriend in this letter.
Sue Jones December 1, 2011, 10:23 am
I guess I feel a bit less judgemental about this. A lot of people have kinks and fetishes and maybe watching live sex is one of his. It does not mean that he can’t have a good relationship with you. And why do you think he lied? Come on! Just LOOK at all these judgemental comments! He probably thought it was better to keep the relationship to not be totally truthful than risk telling you he has a few kinks. Can you live with these kinks and separate them from your relationship? If not, than move on, but you WILL encounter stuff like this in your dating life in the future so you need to be clear what is and is not OK for you. With all kinds of porn so readily accessible online, I would wonder about a guy who had NEVER enjoyed it. While it is not my thing, guys are different, and some guys use it as a way to stay technically monogamous. So you need to think about this and whether it means dumping the guy and the good in the relationship (and future guys, because, I am telling you, it is ubiquitous) or developing a more honest approach with each other about this stuff and having conversations about what is and is not OK for you and developing a more real solid relationship. What can you live with and what is an absolute deal breaker for you?
mcminnem December 1, 2011, 11:33 am
What’s weird is that he had permission to watch porn, and lied anyway. If, in his mind, it’s just another kind of porn, why wouldn’t he just say so when asked? Unless she had specifically said “this kind is okay, this kind isn’t”. Which I doubt, because if she had the letter would read “I had given him permission to watch porn, but told him live sites weren’t okay, and then I found him doing it anyway!”
That makes me think that HE somehow is of the opinion that he’s crossed some kind of line with his behaviour – he covered it up because he already knew that THIS was the point where it was no longer okay. And it sounded like such a desperate, weird lie – trying to pull the trust card so she’d leave him alone. If this were my boyfriend and I, that lie would be a far bigger issue for me to get past than anything he may or may not have done with some virtual chick. I’d be wondering, what is it about this that’s making him feel so guilty that he has to lie? What else is going on? If you’re not doing anything wrong, you shouldn’t feel the need to hide it.
But I actually watch more porn than my boyfriend, so it’s probably just not the same issue for me. 😛
Britannia December 1, 2011, 12:38 pm
I think he got flustered and lied because he didn’t want her intruding upon his privacy. Regardless of the LW giving him permission to look at porn (and honestly, whether it’s live or not doesn’t change the fact that it’s pornography, not a personal relationship with a girl), she started asking him a lot of questions that made it seem like she was not okay with what he was using for porn. I would get flustered and worried that I had misunderstood her condoning of porn as a catch-all type of allowance when this new evidence appeared that now she’s got very certain ideas about what I’m allowed to watch. I’d lie to try to not piss her off and have my “privileges” “revoked”. It’s not about a guilty conscience… I think it’s about him being unnecessarily corralled in by the LW and just trying to save face when he realized that they were not on the same page.
Lindsey December 1, 2011, 1:03 pm
I completely agree with this!
Jess December 1, 2011, 10:33 am
Personally I don’t care about porn, and I don’t think “live-cam” porn is any different than pre-recorded. So I wouldn’t mind if my SO looked at it. I agree with the other people on here that said it was the lying that is the problem.
LTC039 December 1, 2011, 10:49 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, bc I don’t know anything about webcam porn… Are you interacting with another person or is it just they webcam themselves & it’s like a live feed? I’m completely oblivious to this topic.
mcminnem December 1, 2011, 11:35 am
I think it can be both.
Jess December 1, 2011, 11:58 am
i think you can give them suggestions in chat form, but you’re not the only person watching so they might not do what you say
CatsMeow December 1, 2011, 1:09 pm
Yeah… I thought it was like this.
theattack December 1, 2011, 2:39 pm
Unless you pay to have a private session with them. Usually you can see what everyone else can see, and you can type stuff to the girl, but she’ll probably ignore you. More often than not, the girl just sits there and doesn’t do much of anything unless you pay for a private session with her. I have no idea what happens in a private session because I refuse to pay for porn.
tom July 15, 2017, 8:06 pm
Most of these sites are completely random viewers who you don’t know them and they don’t know you. Random participants. Unless you make contact with someone somewhere and give them your Skype name and hook up on line, then I can’t see how random viewer cybor sex can be cheating. The main problem with this situation is the guy is a big liar. If I was on a webcam site viewing a naked girl every guy knows he’s pulling out his thang, and showing it to her. Don’t lie fellas.. this guy is guilty. Liar.
Britannia December 1, 2011, 12:40 pm
I don’t think it’s any different from pre-recorded porn, either. These girls aren’t doing it because they want to actually have sex with LW’s boyfriend… they’re doing it because they’re getting paid. They’re not asking him about his day or about his opinions on politics, they’re sex workers.
Lindsey December 1, 2011, 12:52 pm
Just wanted to comment and say, yes it can be both. Depending on whether you are an independent cam girl or work for a company it can be a private one on one session or with a group of other guys also watching.
Britannia December 1, 2011, 12:55 pm
Regardless of whether it’s private or not, these girls are not actually developing personal relationships with these customers.
Lindsey December 1, 2011, 1:02 pm
Yep, that’s a good point. I think it’s possible to develop a personal relationship but it probably happens a lot less with camming. I know with phone sex it happens all the time. Of course the personal relationship is completely fabricated!
Britannia December 1, 2011, 1:09 pm
Yeah, it’s possible, just highly unlikely in this case, since he’s talking to more than one girl and the LW makes no mention of him becoming emotionally or physically distant. I think I would have a problem with my boyfriend looking for/enjoying a GFE, because that’s something his REAL girlfriend should be providing, but that isn’t the case with this LW’s boyfriend.
theattack December 1, 2011, 2:43 pm
While I agree with you (and I’m totally okay with porn in my personal life so I’m not judging), it could also be said that you don’t develop personal relationships with random one night stands you never see again. Those would definitely be cheating in a relationship though. I personally do not draw the line at personal relationships. I would draw it at personal interactions. I’m totally fine with porn, but the live stuff gets tricky. If my bf watched the live stuff where he didn’t chat with her or she didn’t pay attention to anything he said because there were a hundred other guys watching, that would be fine with me. If he started paying for sessions and had direct interaction with her, that would be different. But I guess everyone uses different factors to differentiate.
CatsMeow December 1, 2011, 10:45 am
I have to admit, I am FASCINATED with porn. When I was younger (and more curious about sex in general), I used to watch a LOT of it – mostly in groups, mostly with my guy friends – and we would all kinda laugh at it. I know that’s probably really weird, but I always liked the ones with super-cheesy plots, like The Ozporns (a spoof on The Osbournes, obvz) and Foreskin Gump. I’ve also watched porn with boyfriends to get us all hot and heavy. I am aware that most (all) of my partners have enjoyed porn without me, and that’s OK. And I’ve also watched porn by myself to get off (albeit rarely).
I guess I’m prefacing this by saying that I’m OK with porn.
A while back, I remember reading an article that said that the most popular porn site WORLDWIDE is Live Jasmine. I decided to check it out, and basically you pick what you want out of different categories, like straight couples, gay couples, trans, different fetishes, etc. and then you can pick a room where someone is just chilling behind their webcam waiting for someone to come in. You can watch a little for free, but then if you want, you “chat” (like a chatroom) with them and then pay to go “private” where they do the stuff they won’t show you for free. I thought it was interesting, innovative, and essentially harmless. But that’s just me.
Was that the type of site he was involved in? If so, I think it’s one of those “grey areas” in regards to cheating – like the strip club debate – where some people here were like, who cares – no biggie, while others saw it as a dealbreaker/cheating.
LW, you are clearly uncomfortable with this. If you have already lost all trust, then it’s best to move on, and in the future make sure to communicate with your partner what you are or aren’t comfortable with in regards to porn/strip clubs/etc. Everyone’s different with their comfort levels. Personally? I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. But to each her own.
LTC039 December 1, 2011, 10:46 am
I feel like it’s the same story over & over & over again & I really believe that is the problem! Moving in with someone after 5 months, is not a good idea! Almost every single letter on this site starts off the same in regards to relationship issues…” Things moved fast & after 4 months, we’re living together” Why??? Why? What is the need to live with someone after 4 months of dating? Keep the excitement of having him pick you up at your house or meeting him out for as long as possible. I’m not saying that he webcammed different women because of this, I’m saying that if people didn’t move so quickly these days & moved in with their s/o’s things would be a lot less complicated!
Webcamming girls online is not a problem in my book, if you’re single! So the fact that he lied to your face & then had the audacity to get mad at you for not trusting him. So now your boyfriend is a liar & a scumbag.
Hun, grab any possible ounce of strength you can find & dump him. This guy is so not worth it… Find a new place, move back home, w/e you need to do, just go. And I hope this helps you realize that taking things slow is a lot simpler & mostly leads to great outcomes.
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 1:32 pm
But then there are plenty of people who did this & not only survived, but may have been better for it. I don’t think it’s really possible or fair to make a statement like “it’s ALWAYS a bad idea to move in with someone after 5 months.” Every couple is different. Some might say that moving in after just a few months was the best decision they ever made.
Usually, when people write in about the problems they’ve having, it’s not because they moved in at 5 months. It’s because they a) aren’t mature enough to handle issues b) don’t know how to communicate their feelings c) shouldn’t have been together in the first place d) all of the above e) everything else.
vizslalvr December 1, 2011, 2:18 pm
Ditto to you, GingerLaine. I moved in with my now-fiance after four months and we’re going strong three years later and planning our wedding for August. Seriously, McPreachy, calm down. Not everything is right for every couple in every situation.
Budj December 1, 2011, 2:37 pm
Typically 4 or 5 months isn’t that long to get to know someone you are dating (obviously friendships turned relationship are an exception) and will probably cause the relationship to last way longer than it should if it isn’t a good match when the honeymoon phase is over (or even worse cause it to not end).
People are taking a gamble moving in that early – doesn’t make it right or wrong – but it is a bigger risk because they may not know the person they are dating well enough to know if it will work. I’ve seen it work and I have seen it not work, but in most of my experiences (vicariously through friends) it usually ends up in nasty and prolonged break ups.
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 3:01 pm
I can get behind that. I would NEVER *recommend* that any couple move in together at 4 months, but it works for some, it doesn’t work for others. Only the people involved know whether that’s a step they’re ready to take, and sometimes, they know it’s wrong for them & do it anyway. And sometimes, they have extenuating circumstances that make it all but a necessity for one person to move in with the other. And sometimes, two people know they are each other’s ONE, move in together, get married, have babies, and have a happy life. Again, it just goes to show different strokes for different folks, not failure all the time & every time.
LTC039 December 1, 2011, 10:30 pm
I understand your point completely, but I just think logically speaking it makes no sense to move in w/ someone after 4-5 months. That excludes dire circumstances, of course. And another thing, I think it is a very immature decision to move in w/ someone so quickly. So yeah, many people aren’t mature enough…Also, I think a lot of people use moving in together as a way to fix their issues, which again is a set-up for failure. I applaud those that it’s worked for (you are few & far b/w as much as you’d like to argue that) & have no judgement for those who make that decision. I just feel it’s unwise & the reason why so many people waste their time in bad relationships.
Carolynasaurus December 1, 2011, 8:31 pm
I completely agree with you LTC039. And to everyone who commented that they moved in quickly and were fine, that’s great for you, but I have to believe you were the exception, not the rule. It’s like thinking, “Well, my best friend Sally eats ice cream all the time and weighs 105 lbs, so how come I do the same thing and weigh 350 lbs?”
Because people are different and most of the time and trying to be the exception will only get yourself hurt.
LTC039 December 1, 2011, 10:25 pm
Exactly what I meant… Those of you are the exception. I’m sorry, but as Budj put it, you don’t really know enough about a person to actually live with them. Living with someone is a big commitment (IMO) & it just makes things more complicated. Now this girl is torn b/w staying with him, I’m pretty a big part of that is bc they live together. Frankly, unless you got kicked out of your house or have no other options & I really don’t see the need to move in with someone after 5 months. I’ve been with my bf 3 yrs & just now is when I am starting to get the inkling to make that decision.
I’m not judging those who do it, to each is own, but I just think people don’t really think things through & that’s where a lot of the issues stem from.
Kate B December 1, 2011, 10:48 am
The worst thing here is that the LW feels she has lost trust in her boyfriend. He lied to her. That’s a big one for me. While you work out whether or not you want to stay with this guy, you should move out. Living with somebody you don’t trust can really mess you up. It’s soul-killing. You’re nerver comfortable in your own home.
lets_be_honest December 1, 2011, 11:16 am
LIKE
DudeInChicago December 1, 2011, 11:27 am
I don’t condone lying, but dude did not lie to you from the on-set of his porn habit.
So he did what most people (not just guys) will have done – he hid it. You were not satisfied and so you dug hard enough and now, you’ve found what you consider incriminating evidence. Bleh…
What he did was he omitted to tell you about the deeper fantasy of his. Still not right, he’s an idiot for that but I don’t blame him given your reaction.
His fantasy is just that – a fantasy. What he’s done on these webcams is not cheating. Call it anything, but that.
Sure, it’s always nice when one’s partner is up to indulge in fantasy play – so maybe that’s the conversation to have; what he likes and what you like – and see about stepping in to give each other a hand. Trust that this is also fun.
mcminnem December 1, 2011, 11:41 am
I don’t see it this way – he never hid his porn habit, she’d given him permission to watch porn. Which is why he dismissed this website as “just another place to watch porn” at first.
It’s the messaging of other actual people that’s bothering her, and that’s what he hid. If that was “just another kind of porn” to him, he wouldn’t have hidden it.
I think this is far less about the porn and far more about the fact that she asked directly and he lied.
DudeInChicago December 1, 2011, 2:13 pm
No one needs permission to do anything.
They failed to share what their sexual fantasies were to each other and it led to him hiding web-related fantasies to her. For that matter, it’s evident they didn’t even have the conversation on “what constitutes cheating”.
For us to make that call is foolhardy at best. Pinning the blame on him lying is taking the cop-out route. Don’t do that. It’s not cute.
From the letter, the LW sounds like one of those women who will give hints and expect the man to fully comply with her wishes. It’s apparent (again), why he hid his habits from her judgmental eyes.
They obviously are at an impasse and need to have a few openly (not just him being open to her, but vice versa) honest conversations with the other person.
Will.i.am December 1, 2011, 12:35 pm
With some thought, I can see this side of the story as well. If he’s not physically touching the women or devoting so much time away from you that the relationship suffers; what is the underlying problem? I know a lot of women get a hunch that their boyfriend is doing something they shouldn’t and it fuels them to snoop harder. You end up getting to the point where you are looking at anything and everything he does to find a fault. Instead of having a loving relationship, he ends up feeling like he’s being analyzed with every step he takes. In the long run, he indulges more in these fantasies or things he shouldn’t do, because he knows she’s constantly looking for him to mess anyways, so why not blatantly give her a reason to yell at him.
I’ve been in this situation before and I can tell you how it ends. Both parties end up being single and it’s always for the best.
Sarah December 1, 2011, 11:46 am
Ok, so if it wasn’t obvious in my response (lol) I have to say that live web cam sex is so so so so so so so not porn. Even from the business side of it. A good friend of mine is a porn star and the industry she works in is nowhere near that of webcam sex girls. Those girls are more of the escort side of the internet. I am not even slightly prudish about porn, my boyfriend watches it, I watch it, we dig through his mag stash together sometimes (ah, the nineties). The idea of my boyfriend watching porn doesn’t bother me at all. Because they are images. These are not real people he’s interacting with. If my boyfriend were to find other women, online or otherwise to engage in sexual acts with, I would consider it cheating. But many couples are different. Many couples would be fine with it. But guess what? The LW is not. She thinks it is a betrayal, and for their relationship, it is.
GatorGirl December 1, 2011, 3:36 pm
I totally agree. Live web cam sex is not equal to porn. On the web cam you are engaging with another individual, with porn your looking at pictures or videos. LW how would you feel if you found sexy e-mails or over heard you BF having phone sex with someone? To me the web cam falls into that category which in my book is cheating.
yMaryn December 1, 2011, 11:50 am
So, I don’t think guys will ever stop looking at porn, no matter how much they are sexually satisfied with their partners. It has nothing to do with that I think. For me is like, a guy gets horny, if his partner is there, great, if not, off to the computer.
I guess what would bother about this situation is that he LIED about it. If he had come up front about it, you could have discussed and talked about what kind of porn you are comfortable with and what kind you really don’t like. But his sneaking around, means he knew something was wrong. I would also be upset if I knew he was talking to some girls and them watch them get naked, it makes less impersonal and anonymous than normal, just-a-video-or-photos porn.
And if you don’t think you have an ounce of trust for him any more, there’s not much you can do either. It’s an awful situation, but regaining trust on someone is really difficult, almost impossible I would say. My advice would be to cut your losses and move on.
Kate December 1, 2011, 12:45 pm
To further add to the debate, what would everyone think if it weren’t live video camming but rather a chat room? Like cyber-sex, I guess (who says “cyber-sex” anyways?!?). Where there was a text chat with another person, and potentially self-stimulation, but no visual contact.
Lindsey December 1, 2011, 12:59 pm
Just wanted to comment on the whole webcam/porn thing.
I’ve done a tiny bit of camming in the past (although I mostly do phone sex) and while there definitely is a sexual element to it, it falls within the realm of fantasy. A previous commenter made a great comment about how for men (and women!), sometimes fantasy stays just that.
Web camming is a bit different versus porn because the girl can look right at you and have a personal connection with you. Whether that falls into the area of cheating or not depends on what you think. Everyone here has different boundaries. I know that the number one type of phone call I get from guys are those who want to explore their kinks without fear of judgement.
I think he panicked and lied. If that means that you can’t trust him again, then you can’t.
AKchic December 1, 2011, 1:31 pm
I think we need to differentiate between porn and webchatting/cyber sex. If I am to understand this correctly, the boyfriend was on a website that facilitated anonymous online meetings between two (or more possibly) individuals in order to have on-camera cyber sex. Basically, they masturbated in front of each other.
Take away the cameras and put them in the same room, and how would any of us feel about that? Would they have just stuck to masturbating in front of each other? Probably not. BF probably felt “safe” in the fact that the women weren’t really in his home. He was misleading as to what he was really doing. He lied and was disceptive.
You have no trust in this individual. Is it worth keeping him around? Probably not. You will always wonder if he is still hiding information, or if he met up with any of these women in person, or any other woman. Or if he does if you continue the relationship. It’s not worth the stress. Move on.
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 1:40 pm
But if it wasn’t on-camera cyber sex between two people, would it be different? Let’s say it’s only one-way on camera action. One person chats, the other person is on camera. In that scenario, what he’s doing is more equivalent to an old-school peep show.
I think that given the amount of information we have, it’s hard to say that what he did was equivalent to two people together in a room. I’m not sure that anyone can say unequivocally that it was/was not porn/cheating.
But so many others have mentioned… Does that particular aspect of it matter considering that when she asked him a (legitimate) question, he chewed her out, turned it around on her, and then was caught in the lie anyway? Blech. That leaves a much worse taste in my mouth. Some things you can work through how you feel about them, come to some compromise, or change your opinion. I will never be OK with being lied to.
CatsMeow December 1, 2011, 1:56 pm
Yeah, I think we need more information. If he was basically paying someone to have cyber sex with him, then that’s less of a “grey area” when it comes to cheating. If, however, he was jerking off while watching someone on a webcam while chatting (typing) with/at her, then it’s just more like interactive porn.
AKchic December 1, 2011, 5:27 pm
Good question. At the “old fashioned peepshow”, you knew that you didn’t have a chance with the girl on the other side of the mirror.
If I am understanding this particular website, these are two individuals who aren’t getting paid to meet up via webcam and act out their little tete-a-tete via webcam/computer/internet. If we were to eliminate the computer aspect, it’s pretty much like meeting someone in a bar and checking into a hotel room for a few hours.
If the girl on the other end is getting paid for a service, then how do we actually know that it’s not pre-recorded? If it’s pre-recorded, then it’s porn. Plain and simple.
The lying is the other aspect. And that DOES bear a larger portion of the scrutiny. He lied, he tried to make HER seem like the issue. HER trust issues, HER problem, etc. Whether there was actually one or not. Because of that, there is a problem. Because he created it.
CatsMeow December 1, 2011, 2:01 pm
Also, I just want to say that I LOVE it when these debates spark conversation between me and my boo. We’ve gotten better at defining those things that might be in the grey areas that WE consider to be “cheating”. Also this site has just given me better ways to communicate, and has made me think about the things about which we NEED to communicate. Thanks, DearWendy!
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 2:20 pm
Yay! Dan Savage & Sugar did that for me. We have a habit of sharing everything crazy we find in the interwebz (sweet jesus, I can’t tell you how many lolcats, memebase & i can haz cheezeburger photos that man has shown me…) so when we’d find things like this (or even that episode of House about the poly couple), it’s allowed us to discuss those things in a context rather than out of the blue (Can you imagine the look on your SO’s face if you said, “Thanks for taking the trash out, honey. On another note, if I were ever terminally ill/paralyzed/otherwise unable to perform, would you consider an open relationship?”). Yay, DW!
(P.S. Sugar is an advice columnist for The Rumpus. If you’ve never read her, start here.
And once you’re done bawling & thinking about how amazing love is & how much YOU have grown as a person and in your own relationship, let me know what you thought.) 🙂
CatsMeow December 1, 2011, 7:10 pm
Thanks! I’m addicted to Sugar now. 🙂
(I’ve been a fan of Dan Savage for quite some time)
GingerLaine December 1, 2011, 10:14 pm
I adore her. She writes beautifully, and almost seems like the big sister I always wanted, but never had. When I read her column, I find myself getting a little teary more than I’d like to admit. She has a funny way of mixing humor, ass-kicking, street & book smarts, and compassion into her advice, and after I read her, I always feel like I’ve taken away something that can make me a better person. Enjoy. 🙂
amber December 1, 2011, 2:40 pm
From the way you phrase the second paragraph of your question it sounds like you were uncomfortable with him viewing this webcam porn and instead of telling him that you pushed until you got him to tell you what you feared, that he had messaged girls from the site. I think that what the two of you need(ed) to do is have a conversation about what you are and aren’t ok with as far as porn goes. If he agrees not to look at these web cam sites you have two choices, believe him or not. I still wonder why you pushed him so much in the questioning, was it because there were other things in the relationship that have caused you to not trust him or have you had other bfs who have broken your trust with porn/cheating online?
bagge72 December 1, 2011, 3:17 pm
The thing that bothers me is him lying, but that could be because he knows it is uncomfortable for you, and he wants to keep doing it. He is also lying about the amount of times he has done this, and the fact that he hasn’t showed anything. If this is a two way cam show he is watching it so he can jerk off, and guess what that means he is jerking off while the camera is pointed him, and he is watching the women get off. I really don’t know how I would react to this situation unless I was in it so I don’t know what to tell you. I guess if you still love him, and you want to make it work you need to get the whole truth from him, but in a way that doesn’t make him feel like an asshole, and then set some boundries, and if he cant stick to them, then I guess you should move on.
*HmC* December 1, 2011, 3:46 pm
Every time I go to make a comment on this article, I see that PFG-SCR has already stepped in and said exactly what I was thinking, and probably better than I could have. So, just add an extra “thumbs up” to all of her comments for me.
Special recognition to grendel as well- he’s spot on with what my actual experiences with men have been.
Way to be, guys!
Nina December 1, 2011, 4:38 pm
I’ve been through this, and I am so sorry to say this but-You need to MOA. You are still early enough in your relationship that you can still get out relatively unscathed. TRUST ME, I know how hard it is-finding another apartment, supporting yourself, breaking emotional ties, telling friends and family and friends you broke up (and what exactly to tell them was the reason!!) but please-it doesn’t matter how many times he apologizes and tells you he was immature, stupid, he didn’t think, didn’t mean to hurt you etc etc. it is better to get out NOW instead of years down the road because honey, I am telling you right now this is not YOU it is HIM.
You LIVE together and he thinks its appropriate to have live cam sex with other women.
Again, I’ve been there. It hurts. It sucks. Don’t waste any more time effort and feelings on a guy who thinks that using a live cam sex site while in a committed relationship is ok. Be happy with someone who automatically knows that, and be happiest knowing that you didn’t put up with that crap.
xoxo
Monica M December 1, 2011, 4:41 pm
I think the LW should be concerned basically because she has discovered her boyfriend’s sexuality is kinkier that she knew. The problem is his inability to talk about it. There is the lying but there seems to be a lot of guilt coming from him. He needs to figure out his own sexuality. LW is justified in thinking that this is a no deal situation. Like others have said webcam stuff is more extreme and can be considered cheating. I would be concerned about how freaky his sexuality is. Would he film them secretly and post the videos? The LW has walked into a hornets’ nest and she needs to think about what is okay for her and not what society as a whole thinks.
bittergaymark December 2, 2011, 1:07 am
Eh, it’s still just porn. Porn meets strip club, but pretty much more porn than strip club. I mean, he’s not actually there… I dunno. I simply don’t get why chicks get so bent of shape about porn. It’s just silly, unnecessary drama. Many seem to thrive on that though…
McLovin December 2, 2011, 4:49 am
I completely agree. He lied about what he was doing and that, at least in my mind, is the bigger of the 2 issues. Porn is easy, it’s convenient, it’s uncomplicated, it doesn’t get mad at you when you want to explore your limits, and it never fails. It’s that incredibly hot woman that I saw on my way to work, or the waittress that smells great and said something funny at just the right time. It’s fantasy, it’s variety.
Having said all that, I do realize that porn isn’t for everyone and it should be discussed and boundaries set while in a relationship. In this case the bf tried to cover up at least one lie with another lie….that’s just no bueno. But this isn’t something that I would end what otherwise seems like a good relationship over.