Right when I was about to give up on him, he called me to hang out again. We went out with some mutual friends and halfway through the night we split off from them and spent the rest of the night alone together. I slept over again. Well, it’s been a week since then, and he hasn’t called me. We flirted at the bar the next couple days, and this past weekend I texted him to see if he was going out (hoping that would turn into us making plans that night together) and he basically told me he was staying in that night. I haven’t really talked to him since (for fear of hurting my pride. I don’t want to be “that girl” who’s following the guy aroud cuz she has feelings for him that he doesn’t return).
Now I don’t know what to do. I feel like it’s a “he’s just not that into you” situation, but I don’t want to believe it! I feel like we’ve had a really good time whenever we’ve hung out together. And the sex is great too. Should I just wait for him to ask me to hang out again and move on if he doesn’t, or should I try asking him out one more time? He is a little bit shy, and I am the one who initiated in the first place. I also recently came across his Match.com profile. He is apparently brand new on it and is online all the time. Is it possible he’s not asking me out again because he’s wrapped up in that? I remember how exciting Match.com was when I first signed on. I really want to go out with him again, but I don’t want to be delusional and cling to something that’s not really there if he’s not into it. What should I do?! — That Girl
Listen to me very carefully: Do NOT call this guy again. Do not ask him out. Do not hang around his bar, flirting with him hoping to boost his confidence enough that he’ll find the courage to ask you out. Do not stalk his Match.com profile. Do not stalk his Facebook page. And for the love of God, do not waste another minute of your life analyzing the situation, trying to figure out what’s going on in this guy’s head, and whether you did or didn’t say or do something that affected the way he feels about you.
Take it from me and from the countless women who have been where you are, some of whom I’m sure will echo my sentiments in the comments: This guy does not want to date you. Does that mean he isn’t into you? Not necessarily. I kinda wish everyone would stop using that phrase so liberally. A guy could be into you, but totally not interested in having a relationship with you. He may love having sex with you, but have no interest in being your boyfriend… or even having dinner with you. And if you are as into him as it sounds like you are, he can smell it on you and he knows that that whole, “Let’s hang out every few weeks and then have sex” scenario he’d most like to pursue isn’t going to satisfy you for long (in fact, it doesn’t satisfy you now).
The reason he isn’t asking you out isn’t because he’s shy or because he’s distracted with Match.com or because he’s busy at work or because you said the wrong thing or wore the wrong thing or ordered the wrong thing at his bar. He’s not asking you out because he doesn’t want to put any effort into dating you. Maybe if you end up in a group situation where you’re both drinking and it’s easy enough to get you back to his place for a convenient lay, he’ll be up for that. But actually calling you, making some plans, and taking you out? No. He’s not interested in putting that much work into it.
And do you want to spend time with someone who can’t even be bothered enough to put the most minimal amount of effort into dating you? Aren’t you looking for something more than that? If so, keep looking. Keep yourself available to those who find value in what you have to offer. Don’t get so wrapped up in some guy who’s shown he doesn’t appreciate you. What’s the point? It’s only going to make you feel like shit. Trust me, I’ve been there. So many of us have been there. Pining over some guy who isn’t interested in dating you is the worst. MOA. Aim higher and have more respect for yourself.
***************
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com.
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MJ October 15, 2012, 9:05 am
Yep, yep, yep. I feel like almost every guy I dated on OKCupid was like this. Fun, but not interested in a relationship, and it always left me feeling clingy and desperate because I wanted more.
The tricky thing is, these guys aren’t being malicious, and they’re not just using you. You’re hanging out and it’s fun. There’s a lot of gray between “using you” and “wants to meet your second cousins at the next family reunion.” But if you fade out of his life, pretty sure he won’t be contacting you again (unless it’s a last minute thing and/or he’s horny).
csp October 15, 2012, 12:51 pm
I love your line about the gray area. That is so true. People don’t fit in little boxes.
Fabelle October 15, 2012, 9:23 am
WWS. I love this, especially: “Does that mean he isn’t into you? Not necessarily. I kinda wish everyone would stop using that phrase so liberally. A guy could be into you, but totally not interested in having a relationship with you. He may love having sex with you, but have no interest in being your boyfriend… or even having dinner with you.”
It seems a lot of women who write in here sort of trick themselves by thinking in such black-and-white “Is he INTO me, or is he USING me?” terms. If you think like that, it’s easy to morph the situation & start believing a guy wants a relationship if he’s doing something as simple as NOT being an obviously sleazy asshole. Sorry, LW– I’d move on from here. Don’t beat yourself or work your mind in circles over it, anymore. Just move on & try not to put all your eggs in one basket (so to speak) next time.
ktfran October 15, 2012, 9:34 am
Oh honey, WWS and MOA!
He likes hanging out with you. He likes having sex with you. But he doesn’t want to date you. If he did, he would have called and made real plans, such as take you to and buy you dinner and maybe some kind of activity afterwards.
SuzyQ October 15, 2012, 9:46 am
Sometimes you have to let go and see if he makes the effort to pursue you. Stop all commmunication and see if he contacts you for a real date between just the two of you. And nit at 10 pm *wink wink*. I think yiu know the answer in this case. So WWS. MOA.
MackenzieLee October 15, 2012, 9:51 am
One of my favorite DWisms goes something like this: stop focusing so much on if he likes you instead think if the way he is treating you is the way you want to be treated by someone you are dating.
In this case it’s pretty clear it isn’t. So save yourself a hell of a lot of overanalyzing and time and just move on knowing that even if he is interested, you deserve better.
Kate October 15, 2012, 9:55 am
Yeah, I know that feeling of being really into a guy, having a few fun dates, and then feeling totally caught up and hanging there waiting for him to call. You just can’t believe it – you know he’s attracted to you and you had a good time together. So why isn’t he asking you out again?? Maybe he’s really busy. Maybe he’s seeing a couple other people and just needs time to figure out you’re the one. Maybe he wants YOU to ask him out, to show you’re interested.
But no, he just doesn’t want to go out again. Who cares why? He just doesn’t. It took me a while to learn, but if a guy is interested in dating you, he keeps asking you out on dates. It really is that simple. You actually don’t even have to do anything but pick up the phone and say yes to the date. If he’s not asking you on dates, he doesn’t want to date you.
You have to snap out of it, stop sitting at his bar, stop looking at his FB page or match profile, and accept that this is not happening. It’s actually kind of relief to accept it and move on.
muffy October 15, 2012, 9:56 am
This is controversial but as a general rule for myself I don’t sleep with guys I want something more from early on in the relationship. The reason I don’t do this is because I believe it warps things – if he has no interest in me he might still keep me on the back burner because I’m willing to have sex with him for no effort on his part. Now I know tons of women who have slept with a guy on the first date and they went on to have a relationship etc. but as a general rule I avoid that so there’s no grey area of “does he like me because he still responds kindly to me and hangs out with me once in a while and has sex with me but he never initiates anything”.
Alecia October 15, 2012, 10:20 am
I agree. I think if you go ahead and hook up on the first or second date the guy did the bare minimum to get you in the sack. It works for some but I think if you know you are the type to get clingy after just hanging out you might want to hold off on doing that.
Kate B. October 15, 2012, 10:31 am
It’s not as controversial as what I’m about to say. If you don’t want to be treated like a booty call, then don’t act like one. If you want more from a guy, don’t sleep with him right away. Let him wait a month or two. If he really wants a relationship with you, he’ll wait. Otherwise, you’ve sent him a message that sex is all you want from him, or that it’s what you’ll settle for, and you will be treated accordingly.
SarahKat October 15, 2012, 3:21 pm
Hmm, I disagree to an extent. I think sex can, and does, run parallel to finding out what you want from a guy. In my experience, I usually never know what I want from a guy until I’ve seen him for awhile. And, not to be crass, but what kind of sex he has should be one of those things. If a month or two down the road I wait to sleep with a guy when I’ve got a lot of feelings for him, if he’s just terribly awful in bed I’m going to be much more conflicted than if I already knew how he is in le sack.
Also, and I know you’re not saying this, but I have an issue as a whole with withholding sex to find out a man’s true intentions, because a guy who’s in it for the long run will let you know that, regardless of sex or no sex. Just like we wouldn’t hinge our judgement on a dude for wanting sex on the first date. I don’t think we should be held to a higher moral standard than men about sex.
Kate B. October 15, 2012, 4:08 pm
I come at this from the opposite end. For me, although sex is definitely an important part of a relationship, it is not the most important. Things happen: people get older, they can have health problems, the sex can go away. So I need more than that. Again, this is just me. I also think in terms of long-term relationships, as that’s what I look for when I date. I don’t know how to do it any other way. If a guy is really awful in bed, he can be taught, but if we just don’t get along, that’s a problem. For me, it would be more of a problem to bond with someone sexually and then discover we are not compatible in any other way. It makes it harder to let go. And this may be a generational thing, but I would judge a man who wanted sex on the first date. I would think him a player, and I am not interested in players. Don’t think this hasn’t caused me problems. I’m sure I would have a lot more sex if I could do things that way, but I can’t. Sometimes, I envy people who can. So, this is not a disagreement with what your’re saying, I just have a different perspective.
MackenzieLee October 15, 2012, 10:59 am
I don’t think that’s controversial at all. You’re not saying you’re a whorebag if you do sleep with a guy right away. You’re just saying it complicates the issue becuase it’s difficult to tell if he want sex or if he is interested in dating.
MackenzieLee October 15, 2012, 11:01 am
I can’t figure out how to edit and I just wanted to add that you’re not even saying sleeping with a guy that quickly will make him lose respect for you (which IS controversial and something that I disagree with at least a little)
tbrucemom October 15, 2012, 3:12 pm
Thank you all for saying what I was thinking. It seems that women today are afraid to ask for what they really want (i.e., a relationship) and settle for much less and consequently a guy who is not looking for a relationship doesn’t even have to really date a woman to have sex. The kicker is when a guy is looking for a relationship he may not pursue one with someone who he slept with right away. Don’t get me wrong, it does happen, but I don’t think it’s the majority. Also, if you’re a woman who truly just wants a FWB then feel free to do what you want, but if what you’re really looking for is a relationship stop acting like a FWB.
iwannatalktosampson October 15, 2012, 10:59 am
What you said isn’t controversial – it would be controversial if you said anyone that has sex before date X is a total hooba-skank.
I think what you actually said (and hopefully meant) is a really good thing for people to keep in mind. If you have sex early on it might turn into a relationship – or it might not. But if you having sex is going to turn you into a bar stalking, phone staring, emotional wreck – you’d be better off not having sex until there is more commitment. The thing is most people won’t turn down sex. So if they had never intended on dating you they still might like to have sex with you. Way too many people turn someone’s desire to bang them into their desire to make them a priority and hang out with them and fall in love and live happily ever after.
I think the LW’s problem is that she *thinks* she’s being really casual. At first I’m sure she was like “oh he’s cute. I am so laid back about this. I am the cool laid back chick. I will to stalk him until he notices that. Lets just see if this progresses slowly. I flirted with him at the bar for 2 weeks. I’ll just continue going to his bar and flirting with him. OMG we had sex. Why isn’t he calling me and asking me on dates?!?! Does he not realize we’re meant for each other? I mean we flirted! At a bar!” And then all of the sudden she’s not casual about it – even if she originally intended to be.
So LW – I think it would behoove you to have a little introspection. Think about your life. Really this guy could be any guy and I imagine this same thing would have happened. It’s okay to admit you want a boyfriend. By admitting that you aren’t admitting you’re lonely and desperate. You’re being honest with yourself. So if you decide you want a relationship (which I’m guessing you do since you got so hung up on this guy) you need to start 1) looking in the right places, 2) set your life up to be boyfriend ready and 3) have some good timing and dumb luck.
muffy October 15, 2012, 11:04 am
Good to know! I was trying to be careful not to say that those women were skanky that’s why I prefaced it with the fact that I was aware not everyone thought the same as me 🙂
MackenzieLee October 15, 2012, 11:33 am
the first lines of ours are complete mind-links
CatsMeow October 15, 2012, 12:53 pm
Yeah, I think having sex early on is perfectly OK and sometimes it does lead to a relationship (I’ve had it happen! more than once!) – but that’s not the “default assumption.” I think that if you KNOW you want something more, then you either need to be open and upfront about that before the sex happens, or just wait until you’re both on the same page relationship-wise.
Kate B. October 15, 2012, 4:15 pm
Can I just say that I like the phrase “hooba-skank”?
bethany October 15, 2012, 4:18 pm
Wasn’t that a band in the 90s??
Kate B. October 15, 2012, 5:04 pm
If it wasn’t, it should have been.
call-me-hobo October 15, 2012, 5:05 pm
hoobaSTANK. Much nastier sounding.
theattack October 15, 2012, 6:46 pm
I think it was more like the early 2000s, but HoobaSTANK was a band, as call-me-hobo pointed out. They did that song “So WHY ARE YOU RUNNING AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?”
MMcG October 15, 2012, 11:24 am
I have to agree as well, especially based on the facts in this situation.
It would be one thing if someone asks you out, you have an amazing date on Friday night… maybe get swept away into spending all weekend together, future plans are discussed, etc. — and you end up sleeping together over the weekend because you’ve already established that some effort is required. Asking a guy out and then lurking around the bar he works at to hang out sometimes does not indicate that any effort was required (which sorry LW, that’s basically what you are doing at the bar, been there / done that and it’s very challenging when you forget that the bartender’s job is basically to be nice and flirty and keep the guests happy and the drinks flowing).
This goes double for men or women that tend to automatically associate sex=feelings.
sarolabelle October 15, 2012, 11:30 am
I don’t know how anyone, male or female can want to have sex with someone they hardly know. Doesn’t there need to be some level of trust and understanding of the other person and good communication between y’all first?
bethany October 15, 2012, 11:38 am
Not really. It means different things to different people. Many people don’t need emotion or love to enjoy sex. It’s just another physical pleasure, like scratching your back or getting a massage!
JK October 15, 2012, 12:01 pm
Except it´s like a million times better than those things (when it´s done right, that is) 😉
ele4phant October 15, 2012, 11:41 am
They’re different things, different experiences.
Being in a relationship and having that bedrock of trust and communication can lead to really pleasurable and fulfilling sex. It’s about more than just getting off, its about strengthening the relationship. It also takes a lot of work.
Sometimes you don’t want to do that work. Sometimes you just want the physical aspect. And the sex you have casually is just…an entirely different thing.
Not everybody has to be interested in both (I’m not anymore), but it helps to understand that casual sex and sex in a relationship aren’t really comparable.
rachel October 15, 2012, 11:55 am
Not necessarily. I’ve had awful sex with someone I loved, and good sex with someone I had been on only a couple of dates with.
iwannatalktosampson October 15, 2012, 12:04 pm
Yeah but there’s nothing like love to ruin some great sex.
JK October 15, 2012, 12:10 pm
Ugh, this reminds me of the “fucking without regard” fiasco of a while back.
Sex is awesome. In a relationship, out of one, in love, in hate, whatever. Everybody does what they feel at the time (or they should), or what they can. There are people that would love to be in a r/ship, havent found the right person yet, so are maybe having casual sex in the meantime.
Why the judgment?
MackenzieLee October 15, 2012, 12:16 pm
I agree. There is no reason to judge someone else’s life. We each have our own set of moral and ideals. It’s no one’s buisness to judge someone else’s
ele4phant October 15, 2012, 12:21 pm
Oh I didn’t read it as judgement. Just that she literally didn’t understand how people could have sex without a relationship – its a foreign concept to her and she just can’t relate.
And its fine for people to be different, to have different attitudes towards sex and relationships. If she had called us dirty whores, or something, I’d be outraged. But I think she just doesn’t get it because she is who she is. And that’s fine.
Kate B. October 15, 2012, 12:31 pm
It’s that way for me. I am just not wired for casual sex. But some people are. The trouble starts when the wires get crossed and the wrong message is received. I say do what you want, but make sure the communication is clear.
SarahKat October 15, 2012, 2:52 pm
“Doesn’t there need to be some level of trust and understanding of the other person and good communication between y’all first?”
Newp. Sometimes its just that good on its own.
ele4phant October 15, 2012, 11:34 am
Hmm, I disagree and I agree.
While it would be wrong to generalize an entire gender (you yourself note that you’ve seen multiple relationships start that began with sex), it is true that many men (and women!) well think of someone less seriously if things get physical quickly. That’s a genuine risk you run by sleeping with someone right away.
However! If sleeping together soon is something a woman genuinely wants, if sex is something she views as pleasurable and it feels right for her to do it on the first date, I wouldn’t tell her to hold back who she is to get a guy. To me, not being who you are or doing what you want to get a guy is playing games and misrepresenting yourself, and its only going to catch up with you later. A guy may pass her over, yes, but if he does, I think he’s not the right guy for her.
So essentially, women (and men for that matter) should do what feels right and be who they are upfront. And that can cut both ways, if a woman doesn’t feel ready to sleep with a guy for several months, she shouldn’t push herself to do so sooner to get a guy to stick around. Likewise, if a woman wants sex on the first date, she shouldn’t hold back from that either. Ultimately being upfront with what you want will help you weed out people who aren’t really what you’re looking for anyways.
ele4phant October 15, 2012, 11:37 am
Oh and my comments in the abstract. I think for this LW, she clearly has an emotional investment in this guy, it wasn’t sexual or about going for what she wants. She probably shouldn’t have had sex with him in the first place.
Then again, it might not have made a difference. He may not have been into her either way, but sex was on the table, so he took it.
CatsMeow October 15, 2012, 12:56 pm
I agree with not holding back if that’s who you are. If some dude thinks less of me for having sex with him “too soon” or some other bullshit, then clearly he’s not the guy for me.
Sasa October 15, 2012, 11:45 am
I think that really depends on your own psychology. I don’t believe that sex is something a man has to make any special effort for, I just do it if/when I want to and it has actually never worked against me. It didn’t complicate things because I tend to signal clearly what I want and look for guys’ signals, too. It’s not all that hard to tell if somebody just wants sex from you… The problem is not sleeping with a guy too early but being delusional. It’s also totally possible to be delusional about someone being a potential boyfriend even if you haven’t slept with him.
Sasa October 15, 2012, 11:56 am
Bottom line: You can’t lure a guy into a relationship with sex. Whether you do it early or you do it late, don’t use sex as a means to an end. It doesn’t work.
bethany October 15, 2012, 10:02 am
WWS.
This guy likes you enough to hang out occasionally and hook up, but that’s it. Not everyone is looking for a relationship, and it sounds like he certainly isn’t.
If you’re at the point in your life where you’re comfortable having a very casual situation like this, then go for it. I did it in my early 20’s and it worked out great for me, but that was only because I didn’t want a boyfriend, so the situation was ideal for me. That’s not the case with many women though. So think really hard about what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a boyfriend, move on from this situation, cause it’s not gonna happen.
Lindsay October 15, 2012, 10:26 am
WWS. The whole concept of assuming a guy is shy because he’s not asking you out is silly to me. Especially when you’ve made it abundantly clear that you’re into him and have already slept with him. It would be a pretty no-risk situation for him to ask you to hang out, so while he probably enjoys being around you, he doesn’t seem to be interested in any more than sporadic hangouts.
lemongrass October 15, 2012, 11:27 am
Yes on the shy issue. My husband is really shy, especially was with women. We have a running joke that he would never cheat on me simply because he can’t talk to a woman. But once you’ve done it that pretty much ends the shyness. Actually it was simply kissing for my husband, then it was game on.
EricaSwagger October 15, 2012, 9:32 am
Uhm, yeah. Girlfriend, he knows how interested you are. You’ve done enough. Recognize that. Understand that if guys want to talk to you/hang out with you, they will. And for the love of all things great and small, please un-bookmark his Match.com profile! Ugh!
j2 October 15, 2012, 10:33 am
He is willing to be your booty call, and for you to be ONE of his.
That is IT!
If that is what you want (and it does not sound like it is), okay. Otherwise, MOA.
NOW!
landygirl October 15, 2012, 10:44 am
Amen.
Laura Hope October 15, 2012, 10:57 am
Back in the Stone Age, when I was dating, a girl did not pursue a guy who worked in a bar if she was looking for a relationship. Why? Because guys who work in bars have constant access to single girls and those who were attracted to that profession were looking for sexual encounters–not long term relationships. Maybe things have changed…..but even so, if you sleep with the guy on your 2nd date, you’re setting the tone, and it’s not for a long-term committed relationship.
Lili October 15, 2012, 1:39 pm
Just chiming in to say that I think a guy’s profession has little to do with how committed he is/can be. Its more about his stage of life and what he wants with a particular girl. Personally, I’ve known faithful bartenders and promiscuous school teachers. Its just hard to know where a guy is at I think, because so many men (at least in my area) are in perpetual Peter Pan mode, and since they have women to hook up without commitment, why bother with exerting more effort?
iseeshiny October 15, 2012, 1:45 pm
My SO was a bartender when we met. We slept together before we’d been on any dates at all. We’re happy, monogamous, and married. Way to stereotype.
XanderT October 15, 2012, 11:00 am
Is this letter from a couple of weeks ago? LW, are you my daughter? I thought we already had this conversation. Yep, LW, you are not the only one who has gone through this. Please don’t waste any more energy on him. MOA
MackenzieLee October 15, 2012, 12:19 pm
ahaha. It’s really impressive that you have such a good relationship with your daughter that she seeks advice from you on these kinds of issues. I’m quite jealous
JK October 15, 2012, 12:21 pm
Me too! I hope mine come to me when theyre going through those things!! (And that DW is still around). 🙂
XanderT October 15, 2012, 12:39 pm
Thanks! I appreciate your comment.
lemongrass October 15, 2012, 11:21 am
If someone wants to be with you, they will.
MISS MJ October 15, 2012, 11:45 am
I think a general rule of thumb might just be that if you have to ask yourself if a guy “just isn’t that into” you, then he’s probably not. I mean, in any situation other than a rom-com does this situation ever turn into a love story for the ages where the guy was into you the whole time, but reasons X, Y and/or Z kept him from asking you out or even letting you know that he’d like to ask you out but cannot because of X, Y and/or Z? Even if there are legitimate obstacles to a relationship, most guys are able to communicate that they’re into you, whether they are shy or busy with work or school or have crazy family stuff going on or not.
lynn October 15, 2012, 12:07 pm
WWS!
Like others have said, I have made a rule for myself not to sleep with people early on either. I’ve done that a few times before, and it never worked out for me. My best friend’s boyfriend has always told me to let guys chase me and that sometimes I need to let the guy be the guy (this advice has personally worked out well for me). He also always says, “If he wants to be with you, he’s going to be with you. It doesn’t matter how busy he is or what is going on in his life… if he is truly interested in a girl, then he’s going to be with that girl and make an effort. If he doesn’t show you that interest, then don’t waste your time. You’ll find someone else who appreciates you and wants to be with you for you.”
ktfran October 15, 2012, 2:26 pm
This goes both ways! If a girl wants to be with a guy, she’ll make time. I recently went on a few dates with a guy. I’m busy most nights and as soon as I didn’t want to make room for this guy anymore, I MOA’d. If I liked him enough, I would have made room.
lynn October 15, 2012, 3:28 pm
Definitely! I completely agree.
nola October 15, 2012, 12:53 pm
What does WWS mean?
bethany October 15, 2012, 1:36 pm
What Wendy Said!
karenwalker October 15, 2012, 5:49 pm
i know what wendy said, but what does WWS mean?
Sunshine Brite October 15, 2012, 6:27 pm
Who’s on 1st?
Lili October 15, 2012, 6:34 pm
It means What Wendy Said. Its like, DW speak for agreeing with the advice Wendy wrote and having nothing to add because Wendy was spot on with her answer (as she always is!)
SarahKat October 15, 2012, 2:47 pm
So, I’m not going to say it was wrong to sleep with him early on, because that would make me a giant hypocrite. I’m also not going to say it because I, personally, don’t think it has anything to do with whether a guy wants to date you or not.
Ok truth time. Out of the guys I’ve slept with, I would say 90% (and that’s being conservative) of those first times would be considered before the allotted time a woman “should” wait to sleep with a guy (I’m impatient). And you know what? It didn’t keep me from having boyfriends or from discovering what guys would work as boyfriends and which ones wouldn’t. At. all. The men who wanted a relationship past sex made that clear and the ones who didn’t made that clear as well. I also got to have great sex with men who I would have NEVER have considered boyfriend material. Its because of this experience that made me sexually matured to get the fullest out of the sex life with my boyfriend now. My boyfriend who I slept with on the first date. 2 and a half years ago.
The thing is though, this guy has already made his intentions clear. He just wants to flirt and sleep with you. If you want that from him too, awesome! If not, move move move it on. You wont be able to get this guy to want anything more than that and its only going to mess up your head for next time to try to get him to. No matter what, definitely listen to Wendy and stop going to hang out with him at the bar because its just gonna mess with your self worth.
But omg, for me, when he does call or text back in a week or so to hang out, send him a really disinterested and obscure refusal like “Sorry, I can’t go out with you, I just bought some scuba gear and I need to study the trends of the northwestern currents.” I LOVE it when guys get those because they know girls can dish that weird sh*t out as good as they can.
Spring October 16, 2012, 7:46 pm
I totally agree with Wendy and the other commenters here that you need to MOA. What struck me, though, is that she asked him out initially. I think this is an example that proves that it’s a good general rule of thumb that women should not ask men out. I know this isn’t PC, but in most cases, men want to pursue and women want to be pursued. Despite the fact that women can absolutely do anything a man can do, it’s just programmed into our caveman/cavewoman brain that men make the move.
Of course, we all know exceptions to the rule where a woman asked a guy out and now they’ve been happy together for years. But most of the time that’s not how it works. If a man is interested enough in a woman, even if he’s shy, he’ll find some way to make a move. When women ask men out, men generally value them less. This doesn’t mean that women should just sit around waiting — we have to flirt like crazy and make it totally obvious that if he asked, we’d totally say yes, and we can even hint and guide him along, but it’s usually better if the guy does the actual asking. He then values the woman more and she feels more desirable.
When women ask men out, the result is typically just like the LW’s experience — he doesn’t think as highly of her and doesn’t feel the need to put in any effort and she feels insecure. That’s not the case all the time, but it is a lot of the time.
bittergaymark October 16, 2012, 7:48 pm
Wendy, I like your second paragraph, but the phrase is “He just isn’t THAT into you…” You kinda forgot the THAT which is key here, I think. Oh, sure, he may be into you. He may want to hang with you, bang with you… but date you? No. And that is the THAT… It goes without saying that anytime somebody chimes in with “He’s just not THAT into you” that the guy in question is into the person on some much more shallow and superficial level… but nowhere near the degree of devotion that the other person wants or deserves…