I really hope this is a fake, especially since I just can’t seem to visualize — don’t want to visualize — how two people might use the toilet at the same time . . . even if they are crazy Spaniards. But . . . on the small chance that this isn’t fake and you are really in such a messed up situation, my advice is this: get out. Your husband’s relationship with his sister is not healthy, and your jealousy and weirded-out-ness is only going to intensify. Once your baby is born, discuss with your husband how you want to raise him or her near your own family and hope to God he gives you whatever written permission you need to take the baby back to your home country when the baby is old enough to travel. And then file for divorce and move on. Which you should have done the minute you saw your husband using the toilet with his sister at the same time instead of “trying to forget it and stuff.”
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at email@example.com.
Jane63 January 8, 2015, 8:23 am
This letter is disturbing on so many levels.
Jenny January 8, 2015, 8:38 am
Maybe “toilet” is being used like “bathroom”? Like maybe it’s a public bathroom with stalls and they were in there at the same time…just trying to get the image of two adults using the same toilet out of my mind. Gross. Anyway, this whole thing sounds extremely disgusting. I really hope this is fake. Why do LWs always wait til the end to casually mention they’re pregnant? If you’re real, listen to Wendy. Now to go bleach my brain.
MissDre January 8, 2015, 9:27 am
I was confused too but I think you’re right, I’ve heard Europeans say “toilet” meaning bathroom.
csp January 8, 2015, 9:28 am
I am hoping that it was some thing like he was peeing while she was brushing her teeth. Like the same bathroom. Still weird but not as weird.
Kate January 8, 2015, 5:29 pm
Hahaha! I just wanted to say that I remember at least once sitting on the toilet and peeing at the same time as my brother, but we were like 3 and 5. Kids at that age still take baths together I guess, but it still seems weird looking back on it.
Anyway, yeah, if this is for real then I just don’t see any solution to it. It’s not going to change, it freaks you out too much to deal with, so…
muchachaenlaventana January 8, 2015, 8:58 am
So I met a few Spaniards who thought nothing out of the norm of seeing their entire families naked. I lived there for awhile and yeah it was really a weird concept at first but I know guys who did this type of thing–one of the reasons is because in the summers there in parts, its so hot and with no air conditioning, the entire family would basically just have to be naked. Water is limited, there are a lot of factors that go in to play here. Nudity/sexuality there are a lot more fluid for a lot of people. They also don’t have the same taboos as kissing family members on lips/familial relations are a lot different and less sterile than in America (not sure if you are from Asia or an American/westerner who lived in Asia) the land of the prude and the brave! I think using the bathroom at the same time is strange, but honestly do not even see how its physically possible for two people to share a toilet, so think this may be a stretch. I think regardless you have this idea they are secretly in love or sexually attracted to each other and you are not comfortable and never will be, so you don’t really have many options here. I do at the base think this is a cultural thing, but have you ever asked him? Like seriously- or told him that this stuff makes you uncomfortable as you are not familiar with brother/sister relationships being that close.
Not everyone in Spain is like this, obviously, but honestly even beaches there are nude, are boys not supposed to look at their sisters or just ignore them if they are sunbathing topless or whatever? For a lot of Europeans being naked is no different than being clothed, seriously. They don’t sexualize every single thing. IDK. Just my two cents.
Kate B. January 8, 2015, 2:47 pm
I think I have shared this story before, but when I was nine, I met my great-aunt for the first time. Now, in my home, we did not kiss on the lips. That was reserved for when you had a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse, so my mother told me. Well, my great-aunt grabbed nine-year-old me and laid a big kiss right on my mouth. Freaked me out. Improper? Not at all, but definitely not what I was used to. I took me a long time to realise this (you see I still remember it), but my point is just because you kiss someone on the lips does not necessarily mean you are sexually attracted to that person. But, the point about the LW’s comfort level is well-made, I think.
Cassie January 9, 2015, 2:43 am
I would agree with some of the cultural interpretations (and, many places in Asia are much more conservative in this area even when comparing to America). However, this line stuck out to me, “And then, one day he was making a joke asking me if I’d like a foursome with his sister and her boyfriend and saying that he finds her very sexy too.” Even with nudity being more of the norm, making a ‘joke’ like this sets off all types of alarm bells.
Cassie January 9, 2015, 2:48 am
Of course, that is if this letter is even real.
Lyra January 9, 2015, 6:55 am
Read below, she emailed Wendy that it was real.
Laura Hope January 8, 2015, 9:06 am
He wants to have a foursome with his sister? Are their names Jaime and Cersei by any chance? (This letter’s not real)
RedroverRedrover January 8, 2015, 1:51 pm
Agree, I don’t think this letter’s real.
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 9:15 am
I think “toilet” means bathroom in this case. Still, I hope the letter is fake or the pregnancy hormones are causing the LW to exaggerate/misinterpret/see things that aren’t there. (Do pregnancy hormones cause that?)
shakeourtree January 8, 2015, 10:54 am
You could be right. Then again, I once had a friend who would routinely use the same toilet as her boyfriend–and I mean they would both pee in the same toilet at the same time. It’s possible!
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 10:57 am
but, how? does he aim between her legs? Does she sit on the very edge while he takes the other edge? Are these people tiny? Do they have king size toilets? Do they make king size toilets?
muchachaenlaventana January 8, 2015, 12:06 pm
yeah how can two people use one toilet at the same time??? do they each pee on one corner, like one butt cheek off the end. just ew and why??
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 12:12 pm
Well, maybe if they both have to go really bad and can’t hold it? Now I’m picturing the scene in Bridesmaids where Melissa McCarthy shits in the sink because the toilet is taken.
shakeourtree January 8, 2015, 12:20 pm
I think it was mostly her sitting and him aiming between her legs. But she has also apparently trained herself to pee standing up and claims she has great aim, so it could have gone the other way too.
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 12:31 pm
One time while I was peeing I was admiring a wax job and I was kind of moving parts to the side to inspect other parts and I accidentally tilted it in such a way the pee up and out of the toilet like a perfect little fountain. I just wanted to share; I’m not sure exactly how it relates.
shakeourtree January 8, 2015, 4:06 pm
Hahaha, clearly I love when people overshare, or else I wouldn’t know so much about all my friends’ bathroom habits.
Diablo January 8, 2015, 9:40 am
This is more a matter of etiquette than values. Obviously, unlike the Spaniard, the LW comes from a country that is way too conservative about incest and bathroom privacy, and will need to modernize her thinking. But the husband owed her the courtesy of offering a threesome with just the sister first, until they can all feel comfortable, before introducing the boyfriend, who, after all, isn’t even family. Actually, now that i think about it, he probably should have given his Dad a crack at his new bride solo before any of this. I’m not sure, because European society is so different from N. America. But there is no reason to get all freaked out until a child is born with an arm growing out of his head. But yeah, if you want to stay all repressed, maybe follow Wendy’s advice.
mylaray January 8, 2015, 11:41 am
Seriously? Joking about incest is not okay.
bittergaymark January 8, 2015, 11:51 am
Oh, please. Grow up.
Diablo January 8, 2015, 12:29 pm
Trying to deny free speech is not okay. Sarcasm, on the other hand, is wonderful!
Diablo January 8, 2015, 12:37 pm
Also, i just kind of like referring to anyone as “The Spaniard.” so romantic and mysterious. I wish I could be called “The Spaniard.” “Don Diablo, we have need of your sword, for the corsairs are sacking the village!”
bittergaymark January 8, 2015, 12:46 pm
But you could instead be simply called… El Diablo.
othy January 8, 2015, 1:48 pm
So, for my wedding, some friends of mine gave me a giant black dildo bigger than my arm. We promptly named it El Diablo. Sorry Diablo, you will now forever be a giant dildo in my mind.
Diablo January 8, 2015, 2:22 pm
As long as it’s a giant one.
Miss MJ January 8, 2015, 9:50 am
Suspicions of an inappropriate sibling relationship? Check.
Casual “BTW, I’m pregnant” at the end? Check.
You guys, I think we’ve got the holy grail of DW letters: The Trifecta.
Seriously, though, LW, if this is real, I don’t know what to tell you about the foursome stuff and your husband asking you if you’ve ever banged any family members, but the casual nudity and bathroom stuff can be chalked up to familial differences amplified by cultural differences. That said, regardless of what is going on, level of stress you’re having about it is a big problem for you and your baby. Go see a therapist to help you deal with that stress and anxiety and if that doesn’t make things clearer, or it makes it clear this isn’t for you, then do as Wendy advises and leave.
Dear Wendy January 8, 2015, 11:22 am
I feel like Pantsless Ramona could fit into this whole scenario really well.
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 12:14 pm
Wendy, do you think you could reach out to that LW for an update about her neighbor, the beloved fan-favorite Pantsless Ramona? Does she (that LW) even have any idea how much we’ve grown to love her (Ramona)?
bittergaymark January 8, 2015, 12:36 pm
Maybe Pantsless Ramona moved to Spain?
Got a sex change? Now goes by Ramon?
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 2:09 pm
Totally possible! All the more reason for Wendy to try to elicit an update from the LW with the pantless wino neighbor.
Pheebers January 8, 2015, 2:53 pm
Thanks to The Lego Movie, my 5-year-old thinks everything to do with missing pants is hilarious. For those without kids, the main character’s favorite TV show is “Where are my Pants?” and right now everything in my house is about missing pants.
Your post made me choke (but in a good way).
Kate B. January 8, 2015, 10:43 am
Ok, first the stuff I CAN wrap my head around:
Bathrooms are commonly referred to as “toilets” in Europe and the UK. So, using the toilet together may mean being in the bathroom at the same time. Odd for a brother and sister, but maybe not too bad.
Other people/cultures do have different ideas about nudity, although the idea of seeing my brother without pants weirds me out.
Now, the thing that makes me say RUN NOW: your husband wants to know a) if you’ve ever slept with any of your brothers, and b) if you want a foursome with his sister and her boyfriend. Unless he is an ancient Egyptian prince, this is way out of line. Please figure a way to get out of this, this is not a good situation.
TaraMonster January 8, 2015, 12:08 pm
My thought process exactly. I didn’t think twice about the “toilet” comment because I just assumed she meant bathroom. Many Europeans refer to the bathroom as the toilet. I thought that was more common knowledge than it is apparently?
Anyways. Assuming this letter is real (which omg, please be fake), it’s the comments made by LW’s husband that cause the real concern. Because who fucking asks if you’ve ever had sex with your brother? Or suggests a foursome with their sister? That is some messed up shit right there. I’m gonna go chant “pleasebefakepleasebefake” over and over again until I believe it…
cleopatra jones January 8, 2015, 12:21 pm
I almost feel like the ‘slept with your brothers’ could go two ways.
Did he mean, slept with your brothers as in shared the same bed while growing up? Cause I’ve totally done that.
Or did he mean, slept with your brothers as in sex cause that’s totally gross and I would run from him.
The joke about the foursome with his sister…well that’s a little too much for me. I don’t even want to have sex with the same guy my sister has cause that would be too much like sleeping with her. Yuck!
RedroverRedrover January 8, 2015, 2:05 pm
Speaking of sleeping with your sister, you know what I’ve never understood? That guy fantasy where he sleeps with twins. Dude, those twins are sisters. Having incest sex with each other. So gross. How could that be a fantasy?
Also, I know a guy who slept with twins. Twin women. And he’s gay.
cleopatra jones January 8, 2015, 3:30 pm
Many years ago Jerry Springer did a show about twin sisters who were porn stars. They would threesomes together, it was so mind-boggling WTF? I couldn’t even watch it (and I’ve watched some pretty horrible Jerry Springer shows).
But, I guess different strokes for different folks…
gigi January 8, 2015, 4:39 pm
I know of 2 sets or twins that do 3-somes around here. Weird. But to each his own I guess, They don’t play with each other, just the guy, together. Its still weird to me, but I’m not a guys so……..
bittergaymark January 8, 2015, 5:20 pm
Eh, as a dude, I gotta confess… being with two identical gay twins? HOT!
bittergaymark January 8, 2015, 11:38 am
Yeah, toilet means bathroom. As for the rest — eh, maybe the LW is crazy with hormones? Look, it’s clear she hates the sister. But much of this letter is just plain crazy. GASP! The sister say her brother pantsless! Eh, big whoop. Was he wandering around with a gigantic erection? Probably not. And frankly, there really is nothing sexual about a flaccid penis.
Oh, and ps — if the incest suspicions are true, and if the LW respected her body as much as she claims to, would she REALLY have rushed getting knocked up by such an obvious cad?
I dunno. My patience with stupidity is at its end. Stupid people? They deserve to have shitty lives as they are simply too dumb for anything else. Oh, well. Too bad. Sucks to be stupid, I guess.
Diablo January 8, 2015, 12:31 pm
BGM, joking about stupid people is not okay. Luckily for you, I believe you are not joking.
bittergaymark January 8, 2015, 12:35 pm
When I speak of my withering disdain for stupid people, I am never joking. If only people could actually be too stupid to breathe…
Diablo January 8, 2015, 12:39 pm
“Gasp! Can’t…. somebody…. hel……” [dies]
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 2:08 pm
Kind-hearted stupid people don’t bother me. Evil people bother me, especially evil people who are also smart – they’re dangerous. Think Karl Rove. I’d take nice and stupid over evil and smart any day. And, really, why shouldn’t stupid people deserve happiness? Despite their own limitations, I wish them the best! There, that’s my public service announcement in support of the nice but stupid people out there. And there are LOTS.
Diablo January 8, 2015, 2:30 pm
As long as we’re debating BGM’s consciously inflammatory declaration (with which i admit frequent sympathy), I think you are right. I have known some people who were not very smart in terms of yer “book-larnin'”, but who knew who they were and possessed decent emotional intelligence, and they are absolutely fine people. I have also known some very educated, apparently intelligent (by some arcane academic standard), but who had no common sense at all and who constantly wreak havoc in their own lives and those of others. The documentary “Stupidity” by Albert Nerenberg is a great survey of what the term has come to mean culturally. it also grapples with the troublesome truth that even very smart (BGM and AP no doubt are exceptions) do incredibly stupid things, sometimes quite often.
Diablo January 8, 2015, 2:32 pm
I omitted the word “people” twice in the above post, but i, uhh…., did it deliberately to prove my point.
Wendy_not_Wendy January 8, 2015, 12:42 pm
What’s with saying the sister “has no respect for her body”? That’s not for you to judge. I was on your side until you said that, and then I was kind of, eh, they all deserve each other.
Lyra January 8, 2015, 1:02 pm
I have nothing productive to add, but I was once at this bar with my friends in the middle of nowhere (which was Hicksville USA might I add). My friend walks into the one room bathroom to pee and freaks out and calls us all in. Confused, we walk in to find not one, but TWO working toilets with no stalls. Like within 3 feet of each other. We were the only ones in the bar at the time besides the old bartender, but we were completely and totally befuddled. Then we decided it would be ridiculous and fun to have two of us sit down on the toilets (with pants and all clothes on BTW) and hold hands because the toilets were side-by-side. (We were also a wee bit tipsy.) There is photographic evidence of the handholding toilet experience.
veritek33 January 8, 2015, 2:16 pm
ummmm my favorite Irish bar in my current hometown has two toilets in one bathroom. I have shared the bathroom with friends and lovers alike because when you gotta go, you gotta go. However, I’m an only child so I cannot attest to sharing with a sibling.
Kate B. January 8, 2015, 2:41 pm
There is a saying in London (and perhaps elsewhere) that the grottier the bathroom, the better the pub. If that’s true, then the Ten Bells pub must be the best in all England, because the bathroom is pretty bad.
Kate January 8, 2015, 5:33 pm
I heard at the Olympics last year the facilities were so fucked up that there were no stalls in the bathrooms, the toilets were just all lined up next to each other and the athletes would sit and go to the bathroom in plain sight while conversing or whatnot.
Kate B. January 8, 2015, 7:51 pm
I heard that, too. It did not make me want to rush over there. I’d like to see Russia one day, but I need walls around my toilet.
Laura Hope January 8, 2015, 2:18 pm
Yeah, maybe modesty is not an issue i some cultures but wanting to have a foursome with your hot sister? Never heard of that culture.
Dear Wendy January 8, 2015, 2:38 pm
You guys, the LW wrote to me and asked that I please take her letter down (she thought I would answer her privately …. even though I explicitly state that I don’t answer letters privately and I post letters every day). Anyway, turns out this isn’t fake. And I feel bad for the LW, so I told her I will take her letter down at the end of the day. So, re-read this letter now if you want and commit the details to memory for posterity. I’m going to leave up my response and the comments.
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 3:01 pm
LW, here’s what would do: sit down with your husband and tell him all these things that really bother you. The sharing of the toilet, his lack of modesty around his sister, the comments about sleeping with your brothers, about having a three-some. Tell him how off-putting that is and why and see what he says. Maybe there’s an explanation for everything that will give you the peace of mind you need. Or maybe your feelings will be validated and it will be clearer than ever what you need to do – i.e., move on.
Addie Pray January 8, 2015, 3:01 pm
*four-some, not three-some, and with his sister and her husband
Diablo January 8, 2015, 3:11 pm
Honestly, LW, i do feel for you and my jokes were just that. If I were you, I’d get a plane ticket to your home and family today, have the baby at home and let your husband try to extradite the kid if he wants. I have no idea of the legal implications, but i would be very worried that if you had the baby in Spain and tried to leave, a court might award full custody to the father, which is more common in Europe than in North America, where mothers more often get full custody. One way or another, you need to be outta there, sooner rather than later. This situation is NOT OK. You have my sympathy.
RedroverRedrover January 8, 2015, 4:09 pm
If her due date is in a few days, then it’s too late for this. 🙁 The airlines won’t let her fly. Otherwise I would totally agree with you. She’s going to have to fight it out now in Spain.
Pamplemousse Rose January 8, 2015, 4:39 pm
LW, if you can get home, you can fly with a healthy, full-term newborn when it’s one week old.
RedroverRedrover January 8, 2015, 4:42 pm
Then it’s potentially kidnapping though. You’re usually not allowed to take a child out of the country without the other parent’s permission. She would have to look up the Spanish laws for this. Could be very risky. Also the child will already be a Spanish citizen so she is taking it from its home country.
Pamplemousse Rose January 8, 2015, 5:12 pm
I just mean from Wendy’s advice – “hope to God he gives you whatever written permission you need to take the baby back to your home country when the baby is old enough to travel” – that if a baby is healthy/full term you can travel pretty immediately.
Lyra January 8, 2015, 9:57 pm
Yeah my dad and brother and I took a trip to Canada — pre 9/11 so when the US/Canada border was still pretty open — and they asked my dad a LOT of questions because they thought that he was smuggling us out of the country without my mom knowing. He had all documentation and everything but I think the border guard even had to call my mom to confirm. Especially since it’s Spain to Asia, I doubt they would let her through with her newborn…
jestme January 8, 2015, 3:24 pm
I have read only a couple letters on this blog. This is the Jerry Springer Show with BGM in charge. With Wendy’s advice it seems fine. Then Jerry shows up. Moving on….
ele4phant January 8, 2015, 4:43 pm
So most of this, if not all of it, can be chaulked up to cultural differences or misunderstandings.
European cultures are generally a lot more lax when it comes to attitudes about nudity, physical affection and talking/joking sex with others, including with family. And if the LW and her boyfriend don’t speak one another’s languages well, she could be misinterpreting some of what he’s saying to her; re – let’s have a foursome with my sister or have you slept with your brothers? Different cultural humor could be at play too. He may be joking, and she’s taking it at face value.
That being said, if the LW is uncomfortable with it, she’s uncomfortable, and she should say something. With honest conversation, maybe she’ll become more comfortable over time with the closeness he has with his sister. Or maybe he’d be willing to make some concessions around her about so she doesn’t feel so uncomfortable. Or maybe they’ll discover they’re just culturally incompatible.
Laura Hope January 8, 2015, 5:43 pm
Lw, Had we known your letter was real, I’m sure none of us would have made jokes at your expense. I know I wouldn’t have. Your question was, is his behavior normal? No, it’s not normal.Even asking you if you’ve ever had sex with your brothers is not a normal question. But you already knew that. Incest is taboo in all cultures. What to do with that information when you’re about to have a baby? I don’t know. But at least you have the information you need to move forward.
kaluu January 8, 2015, 9:46 pm
I think you should really grill him (as gently as would be effective) about the “sleeping with your brothers” and “foursome with sister” questions. If you feel comfortable with his answers (hopefully he will be mortified you thought he was pro-incest) forget about his naked or toilet habits, or his sisters. I prefer not to pee with my brother in the same room/ vice versa but it would not be the end of the world- plus we definitely peed / bathed (each person doing one of those things) in the same room at the same time when we were living in our old house with one bathroom (until I was 15, he’s 5 years younger) my parents aren’t European but I think some west coast people must also be more liberal about these things. We also grew up with a nude beach not far away, although we never visited it we were aware that some adults did and did not think of them as perverts. It’s actually not my preference to be so open about these things now (I do not let my kids walk around naked in the home like I’ve heard some people do), but there was nothing perverted about us sharing a bathroom as kids. When you’re used to seeing your sibling nude or almost nude, it’s just not a big deal. My 5 and 7 year old girl and boy bathing together seems fine to me too. I really hope your husband just has a TERRIBlLE sense of humour and also more liberal ideas about nudity and privacy.