“My Baby’s Due in Three Weeks and the Roommate Still Hasn’t Moved Out!”


I met my fiancé over a year ago and we started dating almost right away. When we’d been together seven months, we found out we were pregnant. Since we are both older (I’m mid-30s and he’s 40s), we decided to keep the baby. Things have been lovely between us (other than a few growing pains which are to be expected), and we are very excited to welcome our son in a few weeks!

Our problem is our roommate, “Fred.” My fiancé and Fred have known each other since college and are very good friends. Fred moved in with my fiancé in 2011. He has a lot of furniture and loves living in the house and showing it off to friends. Before I moved in, the house was definitely a bachelor pad.

For the first three months that I lived here, things were fine. I was actually really excited to have Fred live in the house with the baby as he is also in his mid-40s, never married, has no kids, and seemed really excited to get to play “uncle.” He’s been a great sounding board for me to vent to about things I feel I can’t tell my fiancé, and overall he’s been a wonderful friend! But over the last month or two (or three) he’s been really unpleasant to be around. He gripes about how my fiancé and I leave dishes in the sink, that we are too spread out (a lot of it is baby stuff) and we don’t take care of the house.

If he comes home early from work, he’ll complain to me about how little my fiancé does to help me out around the house and how I won’t be able to rely on my fiancé for any help when it comes to the baby. It makes me very uncomfortable to hear him speak so negatively about my fiancé. It also bothers me because no one is perfect and Fred doesn’t clean up after himself either.

The house is a small two-bedroom house located near the beach in a nice neighborhood. We all love this house. However, with three adults and a baby on the way, it’s become very cramped! We desperately need a nursery for the baby, and the roommate hasn’t moved out yet and it’s starting to cause A LOT of friction among the three of us.

We haven’t been sure what our housing situation is going to be. This house is owned by my fiancé’s mother. As of right now, we all pay a third of the mortgage. The roommate pays a third, my fiancé and I pay a third, and his mother pays a third. If the roommate moved out we would not be able to cover the costs of 2/3s rent so initially we were planning on moving out. If the roommate stays in this house and we move out, he would have to pay full rent. My future mother-in-law, though, decided she doesn’t want strangers to live in the house or to deal with renters. She had the house refinanced and it’s looking like we might end up staying in this house after all. Upon finding this out, the roommate has made no attempt to find a new place to live.

Wendy, this is so frustrating. We have no nursery for our baby and he’ll be here in three weeks! We’ve put all the baby stuff in the family room, but obviously that is no place for a baby to sleep. He’ll be in the co-sleeper for a few weeks, but after that we have no place for him. I also don’t want to feel like I need to tiptoe around a volatile roommate, especially once the baby arrives. I don’t want to feel like I have to go hide away in my room to feed the baby or hide him if he’s crying. It’s our house too. I’m also worried that the roommate will still bring over guests and my fiancé and I both don’t want that at all.

Help….what should we do about him? We don’t want to hurt the friendship at all, but we need him to move out. Am I not seeing things from his perspective? — Three’s a Crowd

No, clearly you aren’t seeing things from his perspective. First of all, you aren’t all paying 1/3 of the rent. Fred is paying a third of the rent, your fiancé’s mother is paying a third of the rent, and you and your fiancé are each paying 1/6 of the rent. Fred is literally paying double what you and your fiancé each pay for roughly the same living space — living space that is now mostly filled with your baby crap. On top of that, he’s dealing with dirty dishes in the sink and a pregnant roommate who vents to him about all the stuff she, for some reason, doesn’t think she can talk to her fiancé about (which, by the way, is not cool). No wonder tensions are high and tempers are short!

Frankly, I am stunned that your baby is due in three weeks and you still haven’t figured out your living situation. You’ve had MONTHS to work out where you’re going to live. If you knew you couldn’t afford to live in your current home without Fred’s financial contribution, you should have found a place you and your fiancé can afford on your own and given Fred plenty of time to either find new roommates or a new place to live. And it’s nice of your future mother-in-law to help with rent, but you are two grownups who are about to be parents. If the two of you together can only afford 1/3 of the rent, you probably need to find a new place to live. What if, after the house is re-financed, you still can’t afford to pay a much bigger percentage than you currently are? What if something happens to your future MIL and she’s unable to continue supporting/helping you? It’s time to start being responsible and live within your means. You have a child to think about now.

If I were you, I would immediately look for a new apartment — a two-bedroom, preferably (this may require moving to a less ideal location, away from the beach; suck it up). Let Fred know and put him in touch with your MIL to work out whether she wants him to stay or not. And then move. If you can move in the three weeks before your baby comes, great. If you can’t, you’ll just have to move afterward. Fortunately, a newborn baby doesn’t require much space and can sleep with you in your co-sleeper until you find a more suitable living arrangement. A nursery is sweet and definitely convenient, but generally not a necessity in the early weeks.

If you do decide to stay in your current home, even though you can’t afford it without your fiancé’s mother paying for 2/3 of the rent (or whatever it will be once the house is refinanced), tell Fred you’d like him to find a new place to live, within a month, and that he will be reimbursed whatever deposit he put down. Apologize for waiting so many months to figure out that having a third, unrelated adult living with you while raising a newborn didn’t make much sense, especially since doing so meant encroaching on shared living space as much as you already have.

Honestly, I’m still shaking my head that your baby is due in three weeks — which means he could come tomorrow and still be considered full-term — and you three adults still haven’t discussed what the plan is for living arrangements once he’s born. As guilty as you are for not broaching the topic with Fred, he’s just as clueless. Who lives with a couple expecting a baby and doesn’t say, “Hey, where were you thinking the baby is going to sleep when it’s born? Um, should I start looking for a new place?”

Also, if you don’t want Fred talking negatively to you about your fiancé, quit confiding in him like HE’s your partner, and start communicating better with the man you’re about to have a child with.


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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com.


  1. kerrycontrary says:

    And another letter proves that age does not equal maturity. If there are three people living in the house, you should each be paying 1/3 for the rent. I’d be super pissed if my roommate had his girlfriend move in and she didn’t start paying as much rent as me. I hope to god you are splitting the utilities 3 ways. And how did you JUST realized that space would be cramped in a 2 bedroom house with 3 adults and a baby?

  2. Stephanie says:

    WWS! Why isn’t the LW contributing by paying any rent herself? Presumably she was paying for rent wherever she lived before she met her fiance. At the very least she should have that money she hasn’t been spending on rent saved so they can afford to pay their own way at their current house or rent their own place entirely. The baby is coming and nobody thought to have a discussion about the living arrangements? You’re having a baby with a man who needs mommy to help him pay rent? The two of you can’t afford a place to life without a roommate, take over the house, don’t clean up after yourselves, and then get mad when he voices complaints? I feel sorry for the baby that is going to be born into this madness.

    1. Seriously! WWS! Every pregnant friend I’ve had (and there have been many) started nesting immediately after learning they were pregnant. There have been houses bought, moves, remodels and many life changes in advance of a new baby. How this couple can put their heads in the sand like this is beyond me. There isn’t a planner in the bunch of them! Just a lot of passive-aggressive attempts at making it someone else’s program. I mean, what if MIL decides that since she’s footing the bill, she now has say over how they raise the baby?

      Oy vey! Wendy hit the nail on the head – they need to move out and get a place they can afford on their own.

      1. *problem, not program

  3. It sounds to me like the 3 of you haven’t actually sat down and discussed what is going to happen.

    NEWSFLASH– You are an adult. Act like one. Call a house meeting, discuss who is staying, who is leaving, who is paying for what, set a timeline and stick to it. It’s your future MIL’s house, so maybe call her in on this meeting, too.

    1. Jessibel5 says:

      I agree! Also, nowhere in her letter does she say that she ever asked or told Fred to move out…is he supposed to be a mind reader?

      1. That’s what I was going to say. I read nowhere “We asked Fred to move out MONTHS ago!!” Nowhere. I think she just assumed Fred would get the hint, or assume as the single person it was his duty, or get sick of her griping and baby crap, and flee. I mean, after the refi and things became more affordable for everyone, why *would* Fred move out? He’s probably hoping Y’ALL will move out!!

  4. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

    You guys! I’m in a really good mood this morning so don’t let this sound more A N G R Y than it should, but, you know how much I hate the term “hubby”? Well, there’s only one thing that irks me more, and that’s when a woman says “we’re pregnant!” No, YOU are pregnant! I don’t think the dad gets credit for being pregnant. “We’re expecting?” Ok, I can get behind that. I’m expecting you to have a baby too, so we’re all expecting, but we’re not all pregnant! <— Ok, "hate" is too strong of a word, but I always think it's silly when a woman says that. amirite? No?

    Ok, now off to read the letter…. sorry, the "we are pregnant" distracted me, as things easily do.

      1. Thirded and fourthed. I especially hate the hubby thing. Every time I hear or read it, I throw up in my mouth a little bit.

      2. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

        Know what might literally kill me? If someone said:

        “MY HUBBY AND I ARE PREGNANT!” <— I vomited a little in my mouth just typing that out.

        Oh no, this is way worse:

        "'THE' HUBBY AND I ARE PREGNANT!" <—- That caused the vomit to seep out the corners of my mouth.


      4. lemongrass says:

        Hate both terms too. So does my husband but he accidentally said that “we’re pregnant!” when he told his dad. He was more upset than he should have been hah.

      5. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

        Oh I thought of an even worse sentence. This one:

        “Me and the Hubs are pregnant!”

        No, this one: “Me and the Hubs are preggo, y’all!”

        I gotta stop, I’m giving myself ulcers.

      6. hahahahahaha i love you addie 😀

      7. I promise that one day, far off in the future, when my husband and I decide to start having kids, I will post, “THE DARLING HUBBY AND I ARE PREGNANT” and label it To Addie Pray.

        And then I will probably have to leave the room because I hate both of those phrases as well.

    1. Jessibel5 says:

      We’re expecting a baby…but it COULD be a Velociraptor…

    2. I was just about to say the same thing when I saw your comment. Last time I checked, males were still unable to be pregnant. Unless I’ve missed something major!

    3. SpaceySteph says:

      I guess I’ll be the lone voice for liking the “we’re pregnant.” Sure I’m going to be the one with a baby in my uterus, but I want my husband to take as much responsibility as he can for the fact that he helped put it there, will help when it comes out, and will take care of my expanding ass while I’m pregnant.

      It doesn’t just affect my life, it affects his too. We do this, like all things, as a team. And when I’m pregnant, the team is pregnant.

      1. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

        I dunno, I’d first make him prove it. I’d wait until he proves it by getting morning sickness and stetch marks with you.

      2. Haha, that’s great, “When I’m pregnant, the team is pregnant.” It would be even better if you two got jerseys and wrote on them “Team Preggo”. Ooooh, and pompoms.

      3. LOL get back to us after you actually have been pregnant 9 months and can tell us how you two were equally pregnant.

  5. I share Wendy’s incredulity that you 3 haven’t figured this out yet. I’m getting the impression, LW, that you were imagining this would all turn out to be some lovely sitcom-ish scenario where Fred filled the “uncle” role, & everything was just going to be some nonstop wacky adventure. Wellll, that’s not how life works (I mean, arguably, it’s a nonstop wacky adventure, yeah, but…)

    So, okay. You’re just realizing that this isn’t an ideal situation. Hmm. Now, why are you expecting Fred to just hustle on his way? It doesn’t sound like you EVER had a conversation about it, right? Don’t expect him to rely on cues like your fiance’s mother refinancing the house. Have a talk with him, & ask if he”d be willing to move out. He might be frustrated, so prepare for that. (From his perspective, um, his fiance suddenly got a new girlfriend, got her pregnant, moved her into the house, & is now kicking him out.)

    OR you & your fiance can move out. I don’t get what the issue is with Fred living there on his own, unless he literally cannot pay the entire rent himself? (You say your future MIL doesn’t want strangers renting, but Fred is not a stranger at this point, right?) So yeah, I’d actually go this route. Find a cheaper place.

    1. “his fiance” OOOPS, that should read *friend

      1. Ha! Freudian slip – they sure are too much up in each other’s business, that’s for sure.

    2. kerrycontrary says:

      Fred could also find a roommate if he can’t pay the entire mortgage himself. And the MIL could increase the deposit if she’s worried about damage to the house itself.

  6. lets_be_honest says:

    Is it Friday already? Wendy forgot to write Shortcuts in the title.

    1. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

      I was going to say – no, silly, it’s only Thursday, then a) I realized you were kidding, and b) I realized it’s Wed. and now I’m depressed.

      LBH, aren’t you going to Napa soon? I leave on Friday!

      1. lets_be_honest says:

        Yes! No super soon though. Pushed it to July. My brother who lives in SF got my sister an internship at his hospital for the summer, so I’m waiting til she will be there so we can all go together. Which places are you going to?

      2. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

        I’m not sure – I was only in charge of getting the rental car, ha. The hotel, the car service to the wineries, the biking, the spa day — all planned by my more responsible friends.

        I know we are staying here though: http://www.westinnapa.com/

        Everybody come find me at the Westin!

      3. landygirl says:

        You’ll be in my neck of the woods!

      4. lets_be_honest says:

        Are you in SF? Or Napa? We should plan a get together!

      5. landygirl says:

        I’m in SF proper. I think there are a few DWs here in the Bay Area.

      6. lets_be_honest says:

        My favorite spot in SF is Land’s End. Have you been?

      7. I’m in SF, too. I did the Coastal Trail at Land’s End this weekend. I recommend it.

      8. landygirl says:

        Yes, I used to live out by the beach but am now on the opposite side of the city.

      9. Mine too!! I’m a Bay Area DWer… I’m about 20 minutes Northeast of Napa.

        My words of advice, dress/pack layers. I don’t know if you’ve ever been out here, but the weatherperson is always wrong. ALWAYS. For example, yesterday it said it was supposed to be 90 degrees by this evening. I woke up and it was 48 degrees, with a new high of 70.

        So yeah. Layers. And watch out for Napa PD they are sort of notorious for being rude to out of towners…

      10. lets_be_honest says:

        People warned me that if you cross the street, you will need a new outfit. Its true!

    2. Sue Jones says:

      Facepalm Friday again! No, wait! It’s only Wednesday… Perhaps we can call it “WTF Wednesday”.

  7. GatorGirl says:

    FFS, grow up. Seriously. No one’s mother should be paying part of your rent. “mid-30’s and 40’s” is entirely too old to have roommates. YOU ARE HAVING A CHILD, time to learn how to be responsible and wash dishes, support yourself, share communial spaces, etc etc etc.

    Basically what Wendy said because I don’t have the capacity to deal with this trainwreck.

    1. kerrycontrary says:

      This sounds super judgey of me, but I would not sleep with a guy who was 40 and had a roommate. I’m 25 and I somehow managed to live alone. Yeh it’s expensive but it’s totally worth it.

      1. GatorGirl says:

        I would be okay with it up to around 30ish. But 40? And expecting a child? Nope.

      2. lets_be_honest says:

        + his mommy pays 1/3 of his housing still…

      3. Oh my god, me too! I will not date a guy who has roommates. I want a guy with his shit together. I’m not 22 anymore.

        So I don’t judge you kerrycontrary.

      4. 6napkinburger says:

        I was totally like that, but then I met the guy I’m dating now, who is 34. He and his ex moved into two floors of a house together (3 bedrooms, 2 .5 bath, living room, dining room, kitchen, office, second rando living room), which they easily afforded together, in a suburb ( that is a little farther from the city than my liking) that was walking distance to his job. He thought he was going to buy an apt which they both would have moved into, but didn’t find one he wanted before the two of them broke up. He took on roommates because he couldn’t afford the gigantic place all by himself, and didn’t feel like moving. Am I making excuses or is this actually ok?

        BTW We went to his friend’s house for dinner a couple nights ago who is living in a shitty apartment with two random/non-friend roommate, whose gf of two years just moved from her old apartment to her new apartment (and not in with his friend). I talked to him last night about how I was not ok being at his friend’s stage in life and living like that, that I liked living in “nice” places that made me happy. He said that we were on the same page with that He also said that he’d never move in with someone and have roommates. so phew.

      5. SpaceySteph says:

        Ugh my husband had a roommate when we started dating, all the way up until we got married and he moved in to my house (the roommate still lived in my husband’s house without him for a month after that). A roommate who annoyed the shit out of me, too.
        He was an insomniac with the weirdest eating habits so he had weird shit in the fridge and would be up at all hours watching TV in the living room; which, my husband could sleep through a train running through the living room, but I cannot.
        I love my husband, and I don’t wish I hadn’t started dating him, but it was SO awkward with his roommate around. Luckily we spent a lot of nights at my place. I NEVER would have moved in with him while the roommate still lived there.
        And at least the two of them covered the mortgage, no mommy involved.

      6. Brown-eyed NoVA Girl says:


      7. I know two 50-ish men who are planing on being roommates again. They’ve been roommates in college and best friend since then. Both of them are making a lot of money. They just feel like having company actually. (And they aren’t gays if anyone was thinking about it.)

        I personally like to live by myself, and have my boyfriend for me alone if we were living together but… I guess everyone is allowed to live like they want to.

    2. Avatar photo theattack says:

      How’s it all going, GatorGirl?

      1. Avatar photo GatorGirl says:

        Good!! But a million things to do still. Like the pretty seating chart, bar menu, finish the painted signs, host like 900 lunches/dinners, thank you gifts…all the little odds and ends! Oh, and my mom made my hair appointment too late (and they can’t move it) so that’s stressful. We’re cutting it extremely close to get all of the photo’s in pre-ceremony but we’ll make it work. Overall it’s good!

        Bad news is I’m working today and a half day tomorrow, so I feel super rushed all the time but GatorGuy has been the biggest help this week 🙂

      2. Liquid Luck says:

        Are you going to call him GatorHubby after the wedding?

      3. Avatar photo GatorGirl says:

        Maybe GatorHubs 😉 haha.

      4. lemongrass says:

        Hubs is even worse!

      5. SpaceySteph says:

        I love ‘Hubs.” I must be a detestable human being.

      6. Liquid Luck says:

        Perfect. You should definitely do that 😀

    3. Sue Jones says:

      Hey, my husband and I rented out a room in our house for some extra “fun” money until only 4 years ago. We rented to mature graduate students in our town. Almost never had a problem and hardly ever interacted with them. Our house is set up so that it is very private with a private bathroom. Now it is the guest room with a huge man-cave TV in it, so I STILL don’t really feel connected to that room. If your house is large enough you can do it. I am glad we stopped doing it, though, because I was ready to be done.

    4. zombeyonce says:

      I disagree with that being “too old to have roommates.” My husband was 36 when we met and he had been renting a room in a house for almost a decade. He’s lived alone before, but got a cheap room with enough space in a good neighborhood. He was able to spend his money on things he thought were more important. And having a little roommate companionship while working and going to school was helpful (though he wasn’t really friends with the other housemates, they got along).

      When we got engaged, I moved out of my apartment and into the house and we were able to put away tons of money to afford a fat down payment on the house we now live in. Even if that wasn’t the reason, I still don’t see anything wrong with people sharing living space, especially older single (and potentially socially awkward) people that may really appreciate being around other people in a casual way. Personally, I prefer living alone, but I think it’s a completely reasonable way to live.

  8. I’m confused as to whether or not you asked Fred to actually move out, or were just hoping he’d go away on his own?

    You are about to be a parent, start taking control & responsibility for your own life!

    Also, lines were definitely crossed with telling fred things you ‘don’t feel comfortable’ telling your fiance. I sense there are some hurt feelings generated behind the negative comments from fred towards your fiance. You need to separate your lives from Fred!

    1. lets_be_honest says:

      Sheryl, when I need something important to happen in my life, I close my eyes real hard and just wish it to happen. Maybe the LW is doing the same with the Fred moving out issue? Wish stronger LW!

      1. That’s just silly – everyone knows you close your eyes and turn around three times counter-clockwise and THEN wish.

      2. lets_be_honest says:

        Shit. That’s why its not been working. Thanks fire.

    2. Oh yeah, I forgot to even address the “venting” thing. I agree that lines there are being overstepped. It sounds like it’s mutual, though—the LW felt comfortable venting to Fred about Fiance, so now Fred feels comfortable enough to do the same…but she’s getting offended.

      LW, don’t complain about your S/O to someone that they know, & not expect them to start doing the same. It’s not a healthy dynamic for your relationship.

      1. Avatar photo GatorGirl says:

        YES! My soon to be MIL gave me the advice to never talk bad about my partner, ever, to anyone. If I have a complaint, bring it up with him. Our “dirty laundry” doesn’t need to be aired to anyone and it only multiplies an issue.

      2. I mostly agree with this, but I’m sorry, it it just too much fun to bitch with your girlfriends over wine about stupid shit your husband does 🙂

      3. lets_be_honest says:

        Stupid shit? Trash talk away.
        Serious shit? Don’t.

        That’s what I try to do.

      4. Avatar photo beelzebarb says:

        ESPECIALLY not with a male roommate who is HIS long time best friend!!!!!! If you really need to talk to a friend (I can see some situations where it would help), talk to YOUR best friend. I wanted to smack my head on the table when I read that part. Really??

    3. It’s amazing – she was talking to Fred about things she had no business talking to him about and then NOT talking to him about the things she definitely should have. Confusing.

      1. Avatar photo beelzebarb says:

        Well put.

    4. I’m feeling a “brother husbands” vibe here…

  9. lets_be_honest says:

    You say you decided to keep the baby, with your boyfriend of one year, since you are both older. Ok, I can understand that, but did it never occur to you that you should at least be able to afford your living arrangements without all this help? Only affording 1/3 of a home is NOT a good place financially to be in when you decide to have a baby. How do you not know that at your age?!

    1. Maybe they live somewhere really pricy – San Francisco, LA, which could make it harder to move? That was my first thought when I read the description of the house (and the “near the beach”). Weird lack of communication though. LW, do you have a budget? If not, make one, figure out where you can live, and make it a priority to talk about the big stuff in advance.

      1. lets_be_honest says:

        Sure, but if that’s the case, then move to a less desirable location that you can afford.

  10. Avatar photo sobriquet says:

    I haven’t read Wendy’s response yet, I just wanted to comment about roommates since LW gave me an opening. You are not allowed to bitch about how your roommate complains about you leaving your shit everywhere IF YOU INDEED ARE LEAVING YOUR SHIT EVERYWHERE. Clean your fucking dishes!

    K, rant over. Can you tell I’m done with living with roommates? 🙂

    1. But it’s ok because the roommate does it too! Didn’t you read that?! (\sarcasm)

    2. lets_be_honest says:

      You have roommates?! 🙂

    3. Liquid Luck says:

      Roommates are the worst! Also, I seriously doubt that this guy is also making a huge mess, because if he was it probably wouldn’t bother him that they were. Seriously, I had a housemate in college who swore up and down that those were NOT his dishes in the sink, they HAD to be ours. They clearly weren’t, so my other housemate and I decided to test this craziness. For a whole week, we both used plastic utensils and paper plates when we ate at home so that we didn’t dirty any dishes. Sure enough, at the end of the week there was a mountain of dishes in the sink that, somehow, the messy roommate said weren’t his.

      He was a bit better after that though, but we also saw him around less.

      1. Avatar photo sobriquet says:

        Haha, my roommates were the same way at the beginning. That was back when I thought it would be a good idea to just let the dishes pile up so that they would be forced to clean them. Nigel said that they’d never learn to clean the dishes if I always did it for them, so I stopped cleaning their dishes and they just piled up for 7 days straight. Sigh. The first time I brought up their complete inability to clean up after themselves, they protested and blamed the mess on my boyfriend. So yeah, I believe that most messy people have no idea how messy they actually are.

        Last night my roommate decided to bake a cake, but the cake mix ended up spilling all over the floor so she wasn’t able to. I was secretly very happy! All because I knew that if she baked a cake, she would have several dirty bowls and utensils that would inevitably sit in the sink until I cleaned them. As she was cleaning up the cake mess, she decided to wipe down the burners on the stove, but gave up on one and just put it in the sink to soak. It’s still soaking in the sink, where I’m sure it will remain until I clean it.

        I think I’m gonna make a sign for our kitchen that reads: “SOAKING =/= CLEANING. YOU’RE NOT FINISHED YET.”

      2. lets_be_honest says:

        I woke up this morning to a very messy bathroom (one that is not shared with the kiddo). The same bathroom I cleaned a day and a half ago. So pissed off, I cleaned it quickly and went downstairs and complained to Peter that he has to clean up after himself/its not fair to me to make a mess of something I just cleaned. 15 minutes later, he says he just looked in the bathroom and its nice and clean and I need to relax. Of course its clean! I just cleaned it!! Again! Grr.

      3. Grilledcheesecalliope says:

        God I hate soaking, it is the biggesr lazy person excuse. “Oh it’s soaking, I’ll finish later”. Soaking is stupid just wash the damn thing. And if you burned stuff on the dish so bad it has to soak, don’t cook anymore.

      4. Oh man. I had a super messy roommate like that. Our other roommate had been living with her already for 2 years, so she was sort of used to writing it off and being like “oh, that’s just how roommate B is!” I was more annoyed.

        However, when she baked, she spilled stuff EVERYWHERE but then continued to bake… and never cleaned up her messes, even when we asked her to right away. She would leave batter all over the counters, sugar all over the table and floor, burnt things in the oven, etc. The worst part with the lack of cleaning her messes was that for the first month or two of living in that place we battled a horrible ant infestation (the ants could get in under both our front door and our kitchen door to our back deck), and then right after the other roommate and I had finally gotten the ants out she was leaving them more encouragement to come back in.

        And then there was the whole situation with the little pantry beetles that got into everything. It wasn’t until I refused to let her leave the townhouse until she cleaned out her cupboards (because the other roommate and I had been unable to find a source among our foods) that we finally managed to get that somewhat under control. Turns out she had thrown out a few things over the weeks that were FILLED with the little flour beetle things, but didn’t bother to check if there were more in the cupboard.

        Sorry for the rant. Your roommate’s cake thing gave me flashbacks. I didn’t realize how nice it would to dump all that bitching.

        In more relatedness: When those two roommates first moved in with me, we came up with a list of household rules that we had posted (we printed them with fancy lettering and had a bunch of silly ones that made them seem less uptight), and the soaking =/= cleaning was a great one. I never, EVER regretted having that one. I regretted not coming up with rules like that for my next living situation though.

      5. Liquid Luck says:

        That’s just obnoxious. I mean, I can be messy, but I’m not dirty. I have no problem leaving my clean laundry in the basket on top of the dryer for weeks, but when it comes to thing like dirty dishes and spilled food, that’s where I draw the line. There aren’t going to be bugs in my clean clothes, but there are when you spill something in the fridge and let it congeal there for days (also something that particular roommate thought was no big deal), and that’s a serious problem.

        I am so lucky that my bf doesn’t mind cleaning. Seriously, he’s been gone for over a week and my crap is just everywhere. When he’s home, he does all the daily straightening up and weekly vacuuming, and I do pretty much all the once-every-couple-weeks stuff (dusting, cleaning the stove, wiping down the fridge, sorting through leftovers, etc.). Living with people who refused to clean was really bad for my mental health. Although it was better than the one roommate I had who insisted we switch off bleaching the bathroom every other day.

      6. At one point, between the three of us I believe there were 7 half-gallon jugs of milk in the fridge. At least 5 of which were expired.

        Only one was mine, and it was fresh, yet I was the one who cleaned out the fridge. Two were from the not-very-messy roommate. The rest were from the messy/dirty one.

        I’m messy too, but I’m clean. I don’t understand how people manage to get things so dirty. I have so many stories about that one roommate, it makes me sad.

      7. SpaceySteph says:

        HOW THE FUCK do people not know which dishes they used?

        This is seriously incomprehensible to me that a person could seriously believe those were not their dishes; what, do they dream about washing dishes and then believe it really happened? I don’t fucking get it.

        Also, dirty dishes in the sink is my biggest pet peeve. Probably why I lived alone as soon as humanly possible, up until I got married. Also, bless my husband’s heart, he doesn’t understand my dish issues but he accepts them and always loads his plates into the dishwasher right away.

      8. Liquid Luck says:

        Seriously. Especially since we never ate meals together, so it was pretty easy to tell that if you had spaghetti for dinner last night, the plate and the pot with sauce all over them are yours! Or if you eat cereal every single morning, you should be washing seven bowls a week. It’s really not that hard.

  11. oh god. well, this is why i worry about the status of the world.

    grow up, LW. have conversations. face issues. pay your own rent- i mean, really? how are you, your partner, and the roommate ALL so immature together? talk about a recipe for disaster.

  12. I don’t even know where to go with this. I guess I have a few things:
    1 – “Because we’re older” just doesn’t seem like a good reason to bring a baby into the mix. Especially since older does not = maturity. But if you think you’re ready, then good for you.

    2 – You should not be discussing things with Fred that you “can’t” discuss with your fiance. You should be able to talk to your fiance about anything. It’s called good communication. And he probably thinks he can criticize your fiance to you because you did the same to him. Strengthen your communication skills with your fiance.

    3 – I can see why Fred would have mixed signals. You say you were excited to have him live there and be an “uncle” to the baby and all of a sudden you want him to go away? And it doesn’t sound like there was a nice, adult, sit-down meeting about the expectations of everyone. If you haven’t done that, maybe you should do that. Like right now.

    4 – Two wrongs don’t make a right. You say Fred is complaining about leaving dishes in the sink and not picking up after yourselves, but then you say that he does it too. Maybe that’s something that should have been discussed in the aforementioned adult discussion that never took place. But even if “he does it too”… that doesn’t mean it’s ok for you to do it.

    5 – You need to find a place with your fiance and the baby that you can afford. There is no reason that someone who doesn’t even live in the house should be paying 1/3 of the rent (the fiance’s mother). When you moved in, you should have taken over paying an equal share. There are three adults living there, each should be paying 1/3 of the bills. I just don’t understand why any grown man or woman would need their mother or mother-in-law to pay their bills indefinitely like that. I can understand if something comes up and there is help needed for a short period of time, but that doesn’t seem to be what’s going on here. If the two of you can’t afford the place, then you need to move. Especially since babies are expensive. With all the daily needs and gear and things to just plain make your life easier with a baby, it can cost a lot.

    So my basic, overall advice is this: Grow up, find a place you can afford to live and stop expecting someone else to pay your way. You’re about to become a parent, so act like it.

    1. painted_lady says:

      Re: #1, pregnancy should be, more than anything else, the perfect excuse to get your shit together, ESPECIALLY if you are “older.” But older doesn’t give you an automatic pass for bringing a kid into the world without being prepared. You aren’t entitled. My cousin, who is 29 , has every excuse in the book for not getting her shit together when she discovered she was pregnant: mental and physical health problems, her husband had just left her, lost her job – her life was falling apart. And yet it’s been the kick in the ass she needed to pull it together. If this baby isn’t a good enough reason to grow up, I doubt they ever will. So “we’re older! We should keep it!” is, IMO, total bullshit in this case.

      1. I’ve seen someone who should never ever have a child completely turn their life around and I was so thankful that that’s the way it went for her. But I agree – great reason to get your shit together and if you don’t, then you never will.

  13. Stephanie says:

    This is one of the few letters I’ve read where I hope we don’t get an update.

    1. This is one of the few letters where we should dispatch BGM *in person* to deal with it. An online response just won’t be enough.

      1. This is one of those letters where I hope he doesn’t think this LW represents the entire female sex, and that he realizes a number of women are calling her out.

  14. It doesn’t sound like you have even had a conversation with Fred about moving out, and you said yourself that “I was actually really excited to have Fred live in the house with the baby as he is also in his mid-40s”, so how the heck is Fred figure out you want him to leave. It doesn’t sound very fair to him, that you tell him that you want him to stay, and be the awesome live in uncle, confide in him all the things you dislike about the guy you rushed into a relationship with, and then don’t clean up after yourselves, because you have too much going on. I mean yeah shame on him for not having a light bulb go off in his head that said “hmm two bedroom house + 3 people and a baby doesn’t work” but you made him think it would work.
    Also I don’t get why Fred gets screwed on the rent. When I was living with my roommate, and his fiancée moved in, we split the rent 3 ways, they didn’t try to take advantage of me, and make me pay the same while they split the difference, and guess what, this was a family house as well, though his aunt wasn’t still paying part of the rent.
    So If you go by just your letter, you don’t make enough to live on your own being in your 30’s and 40’s so you lead on your roommate so you can stay in this beautiful house, and once your boyfriends mother in law bails you out even more than she already is (which is way too much already) you want Fred to figure out on his own that he has to move out, and then you are going to live above your means while trying to provide for this baby while leaning on your boyfriends mother for money.

    So I would say WWS

  15. Deciding to “keep” the baby bc “we are both older” is NOT a reason at all. You need to be ready to commit your life to your child. Sounds like being beach bums is more of what you want. It also sounds like LW is thinking she’s on some kind of an episode of “I love lucy” or something. Having a child is TONS OF WORK. It requires HUGE sacrifices. If three week till you are giving birth (so like Wendy said, any day now) and you don’t even have a place to PUT the baby, maybe you should slow down and consider adoption. There are plenty of parents who want a baby and can’t have one, and have their lives in way better order than yours. If you are not grown up enough to have a conversation with your roommate about living space, I doubt you have truly thought committing the rest of your life to this child through.

  16. So, I had a roommate for a year right after college. We both moved to Florida. A few months in, her sort of boyfriend came down and started living with us. He was supposed to help with rent but never did. Needless to say, I lost a friend over the debacle. Espeically when this boy called me a bitch. Umm, he didn’t even pay rent. Pretty sure you don’t have a right to get mad at me for asking you to clean up after yourself. Effing a hole.

    Anyway, adults who live together should pay equal shares of the rent. If I was Fred or whatever the hell his name is, I would be pissed too. LW, you’re basically living somewhere for free. And your pregnant. And you’re in your 30s. And you don’t do your dishes. Grow up.

    1. 6napkinburger says:

      I understand Fred’s frustration, but Fred is only paying for his fair share of the apartment, and it isn’t his place to dictate how the other shares are broken up. His rent entitles him to be one of three adults living in the place, and he is one of three adults. I’m not surprised that he is annoyed that she doesn’t actually pay, but that isn’t really any of his business and as far as he is concerned, everyone is paying equal shares of the rent.

      1. Fred is paying for his share if it were two people living there, once a third person moved in, the total rent they pay should be split between the 3 of them unless otherwise stated.

      2. haha yeah, I love how she’s like, “Fiance & I are paying 1/3.” No, one-third implies that you are one of 3 separate, individual people. In this case, the 3 individual people are Fred, Fiance, & Mother.

      3. 6napkinburger says:

        Totally disagree. Fred is paying one third of the rent. It doesn’t matter who is paying for the other two thirds as long as only two people are living in the apartment. Bagge72, I think you are a lawyer. It’s kind of akin to per stirpes v. per capita distributions. I think that this should be considered more per stirpes: each third of the rent entitles one person to live in the apartment. It was split before the third person moved in; that doesn’t mean that they have to re-jigger the numbers. it just means that Fred was paying 1/3rd to live in 1/2 of the apartment before and is now paying the proper amount!

      4. 6napkinburger says:

        Correction: “It doesn’t matter who is paying for the other two thirds as long as only two OTHER people are living in the apartment, MAKING THE TOTAL 3 PEOPLE.”

      5. I wish I were a laywer, I work in insurance! The way I see it is that what the mother pays for the house is irrelevant, she is just a lanlord for all I’m concerned. It should be looked at as Fred, and BF were paying an agreed amount for 2 people to live in that house so they split it 50/50, a 3rd person moved into the house, and now that agreed amount gets split between the 3 of them. Fred has to share his space with more people now, so he should have to pay less just like the rest of them. The amount that the mother pays should not be brought up at all.

      6. 6napkinburger says:

        I would agree if she, as a landlord, had just set the rent at some value and fiance and Fred split it 50/50. They could have split it any way they wanted to (I know people who split it like 55/45 based on who gets the master bedroom, etc.). In that case, a third person coming in should pay a third of that value.

        But that’s not how it was presented. It was presented as the mother setting a number (which we can call “total rent”) and then dividing that into thirds, which everyone agreed to. Fred pays a third of the rent. Fiance and his mother paid for 2/3rds of the rent. Fred was living in half of the apartment and got a great deal. As they were paying for 2/3rd of the apartment, Fiance and mother were entitled 2/3rds occupancy. Which they then cashed in on.

        Take a look at this site to see what I meant: ; it kind of applies.

      7. I guess I don’t see where that applies, because this isn’t an estate, and the only owner of the house is the mother, and isn’t dying, or leaving the house to the son as of right now that we know of. I think you are getting caught up on this 1/3rd paid for by the mother, but that is probably just information that the fiancee knows about, not information that really matters. To me it is just the mother doesn’t want to rent her house to anyone she doesn’t know, and is willing to lose some money to do this, and to make sure her 40 year old son has a place he can afford. I think the question now is going to be, is the mother going to be very controlling with her grandchild, and very invasive in the couples life since she is so generous in letting them live there so cheap.

      8. lets_be_honest says:

        Mom here is a huge enabler. Hopefully she is loaded, because once she passes away, he’ll be f’d without her help.

      9. 6napkinburger says:

        I didn’t mean that it literally applies, but that the conceptual way which it breaks up obligations (or shares) sort of applies.

      10. 6napkinburger says:

        And I see your point that I’m getting caught up on the 1/3rd thing, but I really think I am getting caught up on it in response to the other commenters saying that she should pay rent, rather than Fred. It just seems everyone thinks that paying for their own rent out of their own pocket is sacrosant, and I guess I just don’t see it that way. Don’t get me wrong, I pay my rent, and live alone because I am a horrible roommate, so I really don’t think I am being personal defensive about this. But while I agree that being able to support oneself and one’s family is hugely important, I don’t think that accepting help to do so when it is happily offered is some failure of an individual. I totally agree with you that, practically speaking, this can spell disaster with an intrusive grandma who feels entitled because she pays the bills. And for that reason, I might not accept the help, because I was unwilling to “pay” for it. But people seem to be speaking, not from a practical basis, but more of a moral basis, that she is wrong for not paying her own rent and wrong for letting the mother help them. And I just don’t see it like that.

      11. Yeah I don’t really care about the help from the mother, it is great that she can do that, even though I feel like she is probably enabling her baby boy, I just feel bad for Fred haha.

      12. Shouldn’t it just depend on what’s laid out in the lease? And if there’s no lease, whatever the mother says? If the mother is OK with paying 1/3 of the mortgage, then it seems like she probably wouldn’t really care where the rest comes from as long as she gets it.

        That’s not to say that I think it SHOULD be that way. I think that the only fair thing would be for the roommates to discuss how it should be broken down, but I feel like there’s not really a legal requirement for it. Maybe I’m wrong, though.

      13. ele4phant says:

        Disagree. The dynamics of the house change when another person moves in. Suddenly there’s one more person using the kitchen or the shower when you need it, one more person’s quirks to deal with. To put up with those additional hassles another person brings, there should be a compensation in rent, particularly if Fred got no say in whether or not he was cool taking those additional hassles on.

        If mom wants to continue paying something, they could split it four ways, but every adult should be paying the exact same amount. For Fred to pay a third while they each pay a sixth (or she pays absolutely nothing) is not fair to Fred.

      14. ele4phant says:

        If the LW can’t pay a full fourth of the rent, whatever, finance can cover both of their fourths, but there is no reason Fred should be absorbing part of the cost of her living there. Either she pays an equal portion, or she and her finance come to some agreement about how to cover it, but Fred shouldn’t have to pay part of the cost of get living there.

  17. If Fred was clueless about moving out before, he sure as shit won’t be once that baby is born. The crying, puking on everything, pooping in the living room, the weird sleep schedule – it will be like Fred and your Fiance’s college days all over again…except they’re 40, they haven’t been able to keep up with that shit for at least a decade, likely more. His bags will be packed within a week. There’s half your dilemma. The other half being you are dedicating most of your finances toward your living situation rather than expenses to actually live for you, your fiancé, and your kid.

  18. lemongrass says:

    The only roleplaying you should be doing in your forties is in the sack.

  19. Sue Jones says:

    Most likely once the baby comes, Fred will want to move out on his own with a baby crying all night and all. And your new little family will obviously want some space. Time to sit down and have the discussion and give him notice. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has seen the writing on the wall already but chooses to ignore it. Why anyone in their mid-40’s would choose to live where they are not wanted (if they have other options) is beyond me. I think if you both said something like “We love having you here, but with the baby coming, this arrangement is no longer viable and our situation has changed. You need to find a place in 2 months so that we can bond as a new family” or something like that and he will have to deal. If you both cannot afford the house on your own with your MIL already paying for 1/3, then perhaps this arrangement no longer works.

    1. lets_be_honest says:

      Can you imagine having a roommate and all of a sudden his girlfriend poops a house worth of baby shit all over your place? And then asks you to leave? Fred’s an idiot here too. I feel sorry for him, but he’s still an idiot.

      1. Avatar photo GatorGirl says:

        I feel bad for the rommate too. He was living the high life in a subsidised bachelor pad. Then all the sudden a pregnant lady who is messy and all of her baby crap moves in. Annoying.

      2. In fairness, he is in his 40’s too. How long was he planning on living the bachelor dream? When the pregnant fiancée moved in he should have started looking for another place…it seems everyone had their head buried in the sand on this one.

      3. lets_be_honest says:

        Why can’t he plan on living the bachelor dream forever? He doesn’t have a kid on the way.

      4. Sue Jones says:

        He can keep on living the bachelor dream, he just can’t do it there! I do feel bad for Fred, but hey, his roomates are about to have a baby so time to go! THIS is the advantage to owning your own place, or at the very least being the lease holder so that you are the one in charge. Before I owned my own house, I was ALWAYS the leaseholder. That way I had control. When you aren’t the one in control, you are in a precarious situation. He should know this by now.

      5. lets_be_honest says:

        Very true! I’m the same about being the leaseholder/on the mortgage. I need control.

      6. Yeah, if you live with a guy whose mom owns the house, you have to consider yourself the one who’s going to get booted out if someone has to go.

      7. Avatar photo GatorGirl says:

        I’m with LBH on this one. Roommate didn’t decide to have a child. LW and fiance did. This guy is kinda getting the shaft.

        And who knows what kind of agreement roommate and fiance had about the situation. For all we know they where in agreement of having a bachelor pad indefinitely. And if you’re living like that at 40, my guess is they were.

      8. Maybe I should have said how long did he plan on living the bachelor dream in that house. Fred can’t be upset because his roommate is moving on with his life and leaving the bachelor dream behind. He didn’t decide to have a kid but he did decide to live with someone who might. In any case, the writing has been on the wall for the last 6-9 months. Things change. Adjust. That is just life. You still want to dream the dream of a bachelor? Cool. But you can’t do it sharing a two bedroom house with a family of three.

      9. Having an accident baby with a gf of seven months may or may not be “moving on with [one’s] life” ………

      10. It’s a move…maybe unplanned…maybe unwanted…but if I’ve learned anything it’s that babies will make you move come hell or high water… otherwise you are doing it wrong…and in which case – poor little one.

      11. I’d agree in theory but it’s BF’s mom’s house. Not Fred’s mom. Seriously I don’t know why he is not yet out.

  20. Hahaha uhhh… well if it weren’t for your future MIL, if I were Fred, I would ask for you and your fiance to move out. I mean, he is the one paying for mostly everything. And at your age, how the eff can you not afford to pay more than 1/3 of the rent (you and your fiance COMBINED). Are you even contributing? Idk, this kind of stuff annoys me because you came after the roommate did… so I kind of think all three of y’all need to part ways with the house and get your own place.

    And I find it very, very weird that a dude in his 40s is living in a place owned by his mother, which she continues to help pay for. Like what? Am I missing something here?

    1. One more thing — grow the fuck up. Seriously. Reading this letter just really pissed me off. Especially because your tone is all oh-so-sweet… no, I know the game you’re playing, I know people like you… you carefully thought about your language and placed Wendy’s name in carefully… because you wanted sympathy and for people to be on your side. Ain’t going to happen.

    2. I have a guess. I’m betting they could afford a house/rent under normal circumstances but I am betting this house has a steep mortgage because it’s so close to the beach. Beach properties can rent for double or even triple the cost of a house 3 miles inland.

      That doesn’t take away from the fact that they need to live within their means! But, as others pointed out, the family connection is probably why all of this was in place.

  21. Older and (hopefully) wiser says:

    LW, you may not know this but when you have a new baby, you are so sleep deprived that keeping the house clean and the dishes done is not the priority. If you think “Uncle Fred’s freaking out now ………. Also, if your baby is colicky, doesn’t fall asleep right away or gets sick, you will find yourself pacing the halls all night while rocking him in your arms. And he’ll probably be screaming. If you do nothing about your living situation, I suspect Fred will be moving out shortly after the baby is born anyway.

  22. Sunshine Brite says:

    Learn how to do finances. Seriously. Gah, I absolutely hate that Fred let himself get strung along into paying for more of the house. We each pay a 1/3rd, HA! What a joke! I can’t believe you counted his mom as a 1/3rd!

    Oh yes, and part of the reason it’s nice for babies to grow for awhile is to be able to plan for their arrival. You missed an opportunity.

  23. It’s obvious that the LW wants Fred to move out, but just hasn’t worked up the guts to ask him to. What’s not clear to me is whether the LW and the fiance can swing paying the rent if Fred moves out. If they can’t, then they need to find another place to live, and give both Fred and the mom 30 days notice. It’s really as simple as that.

    I almost don’t even understand why the LW wrote in for advice? Is she asking for advice on how to act like an adult?

    I would also not be cool with having a fiance in his 40’s whose mother pays a 1/3 of the mortgage for a house that he lives in, even if its under the guise of him “helping her out” because they’re keeping her house rented.

    1. lets_be_honest says:

      Its really not even her place to ask him to move. Its the boyfriend’s or the mother’s, since they are the ones paying.

  24. Sometimes the response to a letter is obvious and self-evident. In this case, it’s clear that Lindsay Lohan would play the LW on the sitcom of which this must surely be the first draft. Dax Shepard’s character from “Baby Mama” would be the husband. Each episode, they’d cook up crazy harebrained schemes for how to scam Tina Fey out of their share of the rent. (They’d never get Fey for this – just thinkin’ out loud.) Louis CK would be the crotchety, beleaguered yet worldly-wise roomie, who would be left to bring up the baby while Lindsay and Dax plotted. But where I get hung up is, who would play the MIL? let’s see…. “How I Met you Mother” is taken… She’s in her 30s, so it couldn’t be “Teen Mom”… Hmmm…

    See, even a dumbass sitcom has to be thought through carefully before the studio commits… oh wait, I forgot, this is your REAL LIFE. That’s a relief, because those shows can be totally unscripted and people will still tune in every week for the train wreck.

  25. 6napkinburger says:

    Because your Fiance’s Mother owns the house, I am going to take a much more charitable stance on this stuff. Also, I don’t think that paying rent is an obligation that every single adult carries around with them at all times, like, say, the obligation not to murder people. That one is immutable. But rent? That’s situation specific. And notice, LW did not say ANYTHING about leases.

    Here’s how I see it: FM (Fiance’s mother) owns the house, and doesn’t want to deal with real renters, so she rented the house out to her son and his friend, whose rent she uses to pay off the mortgage. She doesn’t have a lease with either Fiancie or Fred. This is already different than a traditional landlord who, in a professional capacity, rents to tenants for fixed amounts of time pursuant to a lease. Fiance and LW get together, and LW moves in. If Fred isn’t happy about it, he didn’t voice his concerns. Even if he did, he’s still only paying for 1/3rd of the rent– which is the portion he should be paying with 3 people living there. It is effectively like fiance is paying 1/3 (actually funded by his mother), LW is paying 1/3 (actually funded by LW and fiance) and Fred is paying a third. He doesn’t have a leg to stand in challenging this fee arrangement. The 3rd that FW is paying for isn’t just discounted and Fiance and Fred were paying 1/2, it was 1/3 from the beginning. Before LW moved in, Fred was just getting a good deal and now he isn’t.

    With the baby coming, Fred should have moved out. He’s an idiot. An idiot without a lease. Not sure exactly what he hopes to gain — everyone else in the arrangement is on one side, and he’s on the other.

    I disagree with Wendy that the LW and her fiance should have moved out; they should have told Fred to move out and they still should do that. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that they continue living in FM’s house, paying down the mortgage, rather than throwing money away in rent to some other landlord. This seems to be the most symbiotic and useful arrangement, especially considering how low refinancing rates are right now. Rather than just taking handouts from FM’s, they are doing her a favor — they are paying off the mortgage while she gets equity in the house. Plus, she doesn’t have to be a true landlord. This may be equal or greater to the percentage that she pays to the mortgage. Plus, it isn’t strange to me that a mother would want to help her kid as he gets married and has a baby. And if something happens to FM, he will most likely inherit the house outright, or at least a share of it. Which still makes it a good idea to be living there, as he will then be paying “rent” towards his own mortgage.

    This all seems like a no-brainer — ask Fred to move out, pronto. If he refuses, your relationship with him is dead anyway (who doesn’t move out when the people he is living with have a baby!). If he doesn’t start to move out a month, talk to a lawyer about starting eviction proceedings, especially as he has no lease (and it doesn’t seem like he ever did).This will most likely get him out, and if not, then the actual proceedings will.

    1. lets_be_honest says:

      Rather than just taking handouts from FM’s, they are doing her a favor — they are paying off the mortgage while she gets equity in the house.

      But she’s paying 1/3 of it.

      1. 6napkinburger says:

        But it is actually a huge hassle to be a real landlord. If that is the case, people either do it and suck it up to make a profit in the short term as well as building up equity, or they pay management companies to deal with it. If they can, they hike the rent way up to cover that cost, so they still make a profit in the short term. If they can’t they get a much smaller profit over the short term, but are building up equity in an investment property, and will make the profit as the value of the home goes up over time.

        Here, FM doesn’t seem to care about making a profit in the short term, and only cares about the equity. Clearly, she would rather let her her son live there and is willing to subsidize that. Perhaps the son takes good care of the property (like fixing things not like dishes) and she knows that he values the property as his own in a way a renter wouldn’t. This could be the same as paying for a management company, but gets to benefit her and her son rather than a random company.

        The couple moving out to a less ideal place where their rent does not benefit themselves in any way and possibly pay a broker for the ability to do that, while FM having to find new renters to build the same equity, pay a broker for that luxury, and then pay a management company or super to take care of the house, or take care of the issues herself which she doesn’t want to do, seems to hurt everyone for no reason other than it seems to bother other people that fiance’s mother, rather than a stranger, owns the house, and that they are having their housing subsidized by the mother, rather than the government or a school, etc. That seems like a silly reason to hurt everyone. Don’t forget that FM will now raise the rent to pay for the super or management company, and because it is no longer her son living in the house. So Fred will also have his rent raised AND have to deal with the new roommates. So he’ll probably move out anyway. Which means that all of this was for nothing.

        If asking him nicelydoesn’t work, I would suggest that FM explain that she will have raise the rent as high as she can by law, have him sign a lease, and that rent the other bedrooms to strangers, as long as this is legal in their jursidiction. He will probably leave anyway, and LW’s problem is solved.

      2. lets_be_honest says:

        Idk. I just can’t get behind a grown man with a (soon to be) family happily taking handouts. Just because its offered, doesn’t mean you should always take it. To me, its pathetic.

        My boyfriend’s mother has asked us to live in her big house a million times. For free. She’d even pay to turn it into an official mother-daughter house. She redid her pool a couple years ago thinking it would convince us. Unless she literally needs us to be there, I could never accept that. At what point do you decide to be an independent adult without your parents helping you?

      3. 6napkinburger says:

        Tons of people receive help on the downpayment on a house as a wedding present or baby present from their parents. Or for the wedding itself. I’m not sure why that is so different.

        If your mom wants you to live WITH her, I totally understand your hesitancy. If it is a house she is renting out but would rather you live there than strangers, and you love the house and would want to live there, and there are really no strings attached, I understand it less. (Though I very strongly doubt there would be no strings, and if that is the case, then I again understand your hesitancy).

        I think independence is great and financial independence is even better (I am totally financially independent) but I think one of the hallmarks of being an adult is being able to accept truly beneficial help from your parents without feeling the need to (metaphorically) harumph and say “I can do it myself, mom!” (though I am not saying you are doing that with the house). Accepting good will and help when it benefits everyone is not a sign of immaturity; on the contrar,; i think it demonstrates a true independence of thinking (because knee-jerk reactions of No! are not actually independent — they are just the opposite of being totally dependent on parents). It’s the progression of doing everything your parents suggest, then NOT doing it because it was your parents who suggested it , to making your own decisions and considering all good ideas, including those from your parents.

      4. lets_be_honest says:

        I do see help with a downpayment or a wedding as very different than a “forever monthly payment.” A one time gift just seems very different to me. If you truly need help, then I guess take it, but do everything you can to not need it first.

      5. 6napkinburger says:

        I do get that distinction and I think it is signficant. Though the funny thing is that the total can very well be the same, which makes it a distinction without a real difference. But it still seems different, I grant you.

      6. Agreed. Getting part of a down payment as a gift still relies on the fact that you’ll be supporting yourself by paying your mortgage. It’s just a way of getting it sooner.

    2. Wendy said the LW and her fiancé should move out because the LW said they can’t afford the house without help.
      I’m not sure where the ‘favour’ part comes in exactly that the fiancé is doing for his mother…as he lives in her house for the same amount she pays to NOT live there. If she just rented out the house to someone else she would still be creating equity in her home…only she would have to deal with the “stranger” element to renting but she wouldn’t be contributing to the mortgage payments personally…which is typical when you have an investment property. The favour here is clearly one that benefits the fiancé. The fiancé is in his 40s and his rent is being subsidized by both his mom and by his having a roommate…there comes a time to grow up and cover your own bills…particularly if you want to bring a child into the mix. As for him inheriting the property or part of it…we don’t know that at all.

    3. I think this is a really practical summary and bit of advice on the situation.

    4. SpaceySteph says:

      “I disagree with Wendy that the LW and her fiance should have moved out; they should have told Fred to move out and they still should do that.”
      But, as the LW said, they weren’t sure they could afford 2/3 of the mortgage on their own. If the MIL isn’t in the position to give them a better deal (if 1/3 is all she can afford maybe) then they really don’t have any choice but to move out and either the MIL needs to sell the house or find a real renter.

      Staying sounds ideal, MIL being a landlord sounds unpleasant, but if the LW and her fiance and his mother cannot afford the house between the 3 of them (and don’t forget how expensive babies are… they can’t afford 2/3 of the mortgage already and their expenses are about to increase A LOT) then there isn’t much choice in the matter for anyone.

  26. Ask Fred to move out. BAM, done! Do apologize for having delayed the decision-making and not letting him know earlier. This will help smooth things over with him.
    If your fiancé’s mother is ready to cover 2/3 of the mortgage, I’m not going to judge you for taking her up on it. I do think it would be smarter for you to pay your own way for rent, but whatever.

  27. 6napkinburger says:

    All of you people who are ragging on the dishes thing — Dishes are the number one reason why friendships with roommates fall apart!!*

    Some people like to dishes immediately upon using a dish, some people like to do them before bed, some people don’t mind leaving them until the morning, and some people hate doing them altogether and only do them when they need to. Some people don’t eat at home and only have a mug in the morning from their coffee, and they’ll let the empty mugs collect in the sink over a week until they put them all in the dishwasher. Some people will load the dishwasher but not run it because it isn’t full yet. Some people will load an empty dishwasher but hate unloading full dishwasher. All of these idiosyncracies drive people with OTHER idiosyncracies nuts and make everyone feel like they are doing more than their fair share. The person who is bitter because they ALWAYS load the dishwasher is secretly resented by the roommate who is better because they ALWAYS empty the dishwasher. People overvalue and overestimate their contribution and undervalue and underestimate the other person’s.
    This is human nature and needs conscious effort and intervention to thwart. This doesn’t mean that the LW and her fiance are lazy, immature pigs who leave the apartment in shambles and should be scolded.

    *citation: me.

    1. I kind of really love this. I think it should be posted onto the walls of every chore-based tension household.

    2. All you have said is very true. However, these guys are in their 40’s! Shouldn’t they have learned to come up with some sort of truce about the dishes with a housemate by now? It all just seems so petty when you’re also talking about, you know, bringing a new life into the world.

      1. 6napkinburger says:

        I’m 29 and haven’t figured out a solution to it yet. Which is why I live alone– I suck pretty hardcore at dishes. I guess that’s a solution, but not really.

      2. SpaceySteph says:

        I think this is really the ONLY solution.

        If you are the kind of person who hates dishes in the sink, then you will never be truly happy living with your roommate’s dishes in the sink. If you are the kind of person who likes to leave the dishes in the sink until there aren’t any clean ones left, then you will always be annoying the shit out of your roommate who cleans up your dishes so she doesn’t have to look at them in the sink every day. Or if you’re this person and you agree to clean your dishes immediately for the compulsive* roommate’s sake, you’ll resent them for being crazy and if you forget even for a day they’ll hate you for being sloppy.

        This never ends well.

    3. Exactly! I have had discussions of this with many other people.

      Also, from the times where I basically lived at my (now ex) bf’s place (don’t worry, I helped clean, made them food, even offered to pay them, and there was never any baby to worry about), and living in a couple different households with several adults, I’ve noticed that basically EVERYONE thinks that they do far more chores than they actually do. The only exception to this is when someone doesn’t want to admit that their significant other is more like their child than their partner. People tend to get so caught up on specific things that they don’t notice the other things the roommates do around the place.

  28. Avatar photo gatecrashergirl says:

    Am I the only one giving LW the benefit of the doubt? I feel like there were things that might have been left out but implied. I read it in the manner that they asked him to move, the MIL refinanced the house and now they are capable of paying for it themselves and Fred simply won’t get a move on it. I agree they’re handling it horribly and they need to pull up their adult pants and just sit down for that awkward conversation (perhaps again?). Why would Fred want to stay there and be the third wheel??

    1. That’s a good point. It may be that she left a lot out (let’s hope so). But it’s really weird that she wouldn’t mention at all that they’ve already asked him to leave and he refused or ignored them or whatever.

      1. Avatar photo gatecrashergirl says:

        I took the part where she’d said that once the MIL had refinanced he stopped looking as they’d all talked about moving out… but then again, what do I know? But absolutely… I hope she left a lot out. Otherwise, it sounds like they’re acting much more early twenties than late thirties. Geeze.

      2. Ahhh, yeah, I feel like I was probably skimming at that point. It sounds like they have talked about it, but maybe haven’t really revisited the topic? Either way, something’s wrong here.

  29. “Your problem” is not Fred. Your problem is you. I’m not even sure exactly what you want. You lament the fact that Fred hasn’t magically disappeared, but you acknowledge that you couldn’t pay for his share of the house. And then you say you can’t really move because your fiance’s mother doesn’t want you to. Then you talk about how you thought it would be nice to have Fred live with you, your fiance and the baby.

    I’m also not really sure why you aren’t more concerned that you and your fiance can’t pay more than 1/3 of a mortgage together. Children are expensive. If you guys can’t even live as independent adults by yourselves, how do you expect to support a child, too?

    Also, I don’t think Fred is that stupid. I assume that anyone who would put up with this shit is also too irresponsible to afford more than 1/3 of a home, or else he’s just assuming you guys will move out since you can’t afford the house, and is waiting for that magical day to arrive.

    One last thing: Please, please learn some manners before you start raising a child. As in, when you move in with your fiance and his roommate, actually pull your weight when it comes to rent and chores. And don’t bitch about your fiance to some other guy.

    1. Avatar photo gatecrashergirl says:

      YES YES YES! They should be very concerned that paying their own rent is a problem if they have a baby on the way! You hit the nail on the head Lindsay.

  30. Bittergaymark says:

    deleted by wendy

    1. 6napkinburger says:

      And yet it is curious why Wendy is receiving fewer letters?

      1. Avatar photo LadyinPurpleNotRed says:

        If BGM’s comment(s) are enough to make someone not send in a letter, they weren’t serious about it to begin with.

      2. Bittergaymark says:

        PLEASE!! Those that recieve my harshest comments are so clueless they always think they are “right.” They would never even begin to think that I would ever dress them down…

      3. Actually, in recent weeks, I’ve been receiving more than ever.

      4. 6napkinburger says:

        Oh, I thought you had said you had a decrease. Sorry!

      5. lets_be_honest says:

        I thought there was a decrease only because of posting letters from the forums on the main page. Glad to hear that’s not the case!

    2. Please refrain from calling LWs or anyone else names.

    3. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

      BGM, you’re such a [deleted by wendy] and [deleted by wendy]. In conclusion, [deleted by wendy] your mom.

      1. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

        ^ hahaha i was just trying to sound badass.

  31. Poor Fred and poor fetus. Y’all still need to figure out how to do dishes (which probably should’ve happened, at the latest, just out of college) and you’re mid-30s/40s and about to have a child? Yeesh. This is Roommate 101. Don’t even get me started on Parenting 101, Adulthood 101, and Financial Independence from Parents 101.

  32. Ok first of all LW…do you even work? Do you have a job and career? You are not paying a dime to live in the house and therefore you have no right to ask people to move out of the house. Your FH, his roomate and FML are the ones who are paying the bills. When you moved in, FML (future mother in law) 1/3 should have been taken over by you. But instead you are NOT paying a dime for anything! You can not even clean up after yourself! What do you do all day? Sit on your ass at the beach lookin through baby mags and working on your tan? And what is up with this crap of talking shit behind your FH’s back to his BFF & roomate, bc that is what you were doing. You are planning on marrying him and yet cannot voice any concerns to your FH? There are things you can’t talk to him about? Then you do not belong getting married to him. Marriage is not a game, nor is parenthood! Both require work, dedication, trust, communication, helping each other, anr a strong united front. Motherhood is not easy, it is not a walk in the park, anr above all MOTHERHOOD IS NOT A GAME!!!! A child does not take care of itself, it needs is parents. You are not ready to get married, you are not ready to become a mother. You are a whiny, irresponsible, little brat who wants everyone to do everything for her. Hell YOU CAN’T EVEN WASH YOUR OWN DISHES OR CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS!

    You have no say in who stays or leaves the home except toward yourself. You are not the landlord or owner of the home, your FML is. It is her decision who lives in her home and who doesn’t. It is her responsibility to give a 30day notice to whoever she wants out of her home, NOT YOURS!!!!! You need to grow up. Age does not mean maturity. Stoo being a lazy, selfish brat and start paying your own way and contribute to the home you now share. But I do agree with everyone else, you and your FH should move out and find something you can afford together. Because once that baby comes, cost of living is gonna skyrocket. Daycare, food, clothes etc etc etc.

    1. Sorry if this seems harsh but (maybe I should have worded it better) is that she appears to come across as a whiny self-entitled brat. Maybe its the hormones, idk, but the LW is an adult and it is about time she steps up and pulls her own weight around the home, including paying her portion of the rent.

      1. it’s not harsh that was the exact take I had too.

  33. Oddly, I’m really hoping that this LW will write back in (hopefully soon!) and be like, “Omg, you guys have it all wrong!”

    Not because I like it at all when people “update” with rude defensive letters, but I’m hoping she’ll be like, “You guys have the complete wrong impression because I left out some important details that I thought I implied, but I had not! I am so sorry! Here’s the rest of the story!”

    Maybe it’ll be something like,

    “When I initially moved into the house, we had discussed a ‘trial period’ with all three of us, and if it didn’t work out, either he or us would move out, most likely him. After a couple months we realized it wasn’t working so we did mention to him that he’d need to move out. I thought that was implied by us waiting for him to move out, sorry!

    As for the dishes, they do get washed every day, but he complains because fiance leaves ‘almost twice as many dishes as he did before [I] moved in,’ which obviously would be the case if there are two of us eating instead of just fiance. He gets mad that we don’t wash them IMMEDIATELY after we eat.

    As far as rent goes, fiance’s mother insists on paying 1/3 of the mortgage because in her eyes it’s her house and she’s going to be the one owning it in the end. We initially figured since I’d just be joining fiance in his room, we could split his 1/3 of the mortgage, provided that I paid my fair share of the utilities. I guess I didn’t take into account the extra stuff I might bring into shared spaces. All of us agreed on it in the beginning and Fred said he was completely fine with it. My future MIL is the one who is really trying to convince fiance and I to stay, because without us she’ll be struggling to afford it but she doesn’t want to deal with other renters, even if one of them was Fred.

    Neither of us have had children, so we didn’t expect to have so much baby stuff. People have been very generous and we’re bursting at the seams with baby supplies. I feel guilty having it in a shared space, because I know it’s rude, but sometimes with my up and down moods I’ve been finding it easier to move the blame away from me and onto why the baby needs its own space, so I’m not crying 24/7.

    I forgot to mention that Fred’s volatile moods don’t seem entirely due to the living situation. He’s kind of gone off the deep end, and I’m worried that somethings not quite right with him and he’s becoming unpredictable.”

    I don’t know. I don’t want to the dishes at my own house, so I’m amusing myself by coming up with justifications that the LW might come up with. I so badly want people to be more rational and thoughtful sometimes, even if the reality is more likely (based on some past updates by others) that the update would be more along the lines of, “You are all such mean and nasty people! Fiance shouldn’t have to pay more rent since we’re not even going to get to own the house, so his mom should have to pay her share! That’s totally normal for a 40-something year old man! Obviously Fred is just being selfish and mean, and everyone needs to care about babies!”

    1. Haha, maybe you should start a business where you edit LWs letters for them in hopes of improving their image…

      1. Some of us will do a lot to get out of doing dishes, even if only for a little while.

        Perhaps the next time I get bored I’ll write a few more “There’s more to the story!” or “The other side of the story!” comments. It amused me for quite a while.


      1. lets_be_honest says:

        ha, you should thank her.

      2. lets_be_honest says:

        Come on LW. That’s all you’re going to comment with? We need more!

      3. Whoa whoa whoa, you can’t just comment with “that”!! Hahaha

      4. I agree with lets_be_honest, we need more information! I can’t do all your work for you.

      5. You never specified which part you’re referring to with your “that” comment. For all we know, you could be saying that you want to call us all meanies.

        And there’s no way I got that all spot on. I mean, I’m pretty fantastic and brilliant, don’t get me wrong. However, as far as I’m aware, I’m not psychic, so I highly doubt what I said was exactly right.

        Please give us more answers!

      6. THAT! Insert smiley face, even though I dislike emoticons.

      7. I thought someone was just pretending to be the LW since it was kind of tongue in cheek funny… a real LW would have been more effusive with all the defences she offered…

  34. stilgar666 says:

    I feel bad for our gene pool.

    1. Bittergaymark says:

      Seriously. Its increasingly clear the best and brightest keep breeding like rats… Who had a baby when the two of them combined can only cover 1/3 of their rent? Seriously?

      1. A La Mode says:

        Idiocracy is coming to fruition – at least while we are alive, the indiscriminate breeders are still literate.

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