“My Boyfriend Belongs to a Sex Site”

My boyfriend and I have been together nine months and met through a mutual friend. We’ve recently had a few small issues because he’s stressed with work and other things at the moment. I recently found out he was a member of some sort of sex/dating site thing. I looked at his profile and was not happy with what I read on it — things like he loved going out drinking then going home for ‘fun in the bedroom’ and stuff like that. I confronted him about it and he didn’t deny it.

He was honest about it and told me that he signed up for the site when he was with his previous partner (their relationship was really bad for ages, mainly because of her, and he only stayed with her as long as her did because he was in love with her and thought things would get better). He said he signed up because it was a way of escaping reality and her. He told me he hasn’t changed his profile on it and completly forgot about the site while he was with me until recently when he got an email saying someone wanted to talk to him on it.

I have found messages between him and a woman — not really like explicit things, and only about 10 short messages altogether, just talking about sexual things they’ve done, but not in much detail really. These messages were recent, but I didn’t find any others apart from that, though I did find messages from other women, which he ignored.

He said since he found out that he was still on the site he has been trying to find out how to delete his profile. Before all this, he was generally really caring and loving and we were happy together. He is usually honest with me but finds it hard to express his feelings at times. I believe him when he says he signed up for the site when he was with his ex, but I’m unsure about why he decided to keep his profile and started talking to this girl in the past few days. He has said he will delete his profile, and unsubscribe, and I could even read all his emails on his account if I wanted before he deletes them. He said he will work really hard to earn my trust and that he never planned on meeting up with the girls, which I do believe, as he has been cheated on in the past. What do you think? — Found His Sex

Something’s rotten in Denmark, that’s what I think. How did you find this sex site in the first place? Were you snooping? If so, that means there was a lack of trust even before you discovered your boyfriend was discussing his sexual history over email with some random woman he met on a sex site he’s a member of. I’ll repeat that last part again: your boyfriend has been trading sex stories with some random woman he met on a sex site he’s a member of. Recently. This happened since you’ve been together. And you’re wondering — what — if you should stay with him or something?

Um, no. Not unless you want to continually worry that your boyfriend is cheating on you or meeting women behind your back. There are a lot of red flags here. He has “trouble expressing his feelings.” He joined a sex site while he was in a committed relationship to “escape” the problems he was having with his girlfriend (what’s he going to do when he has problems with YOU?). And he told you he’s “trying to find out how to delete his profile” on the sex site he belongs to? HOW is he trying to figure that one out? Did he put a message in a bottle and throw it in the ocean and hope someone from customer service receives it?

Take your blinders off and see what’s going on here. You’re dating someone unscrupulous. He may be into you; he may WANT to be a good and decent boyfriend. But he’s got problems he doesn’t seem terribly committed to fixing. Unless you want to get sucked into more drama, I’d MOA from this one, and leave him to his sex stories with his new friends on the sex site he can’t figure out how to cancel.

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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy@dearwendy.com.


    1. And get yourself tested for STIs, because there’s a chance he’s been doing more than chatting.

      1. Avatar photo theattack says:

        “just talking about sexual things they’ve done”

        It sounds to me like they already had been doing stuff. I took this line as talking about sexual things they’ve done together, especially in combination with him saying that he never planned on meeting up with any of the girls, like it just happened on accident. But I guess it could mean sexual things they’ve done in the past with other people, and he could be saying that he actually didn’t meet up with any of them.

        I’m confused now.

      2. I think, since she believes they didn’t meet up, it must be things they’ve done with other people… “do you like it doggy-style” or something like that

      3. Avatar photo theattack says:

        I just skimmed through the letter and didn’t see where she said that she believed he didn’t meet up with her. I just found this:

        “…that he never planned on meeting up with the girls, which I do believe…”

        I’m just getting hung up on this phrase. Is it like “I never _planned_ to meet up with her, but it all just happened so fast!” or is it like “I joined the site and talked to her but never actually planned on meeting her, and I didn’t?” Because the LW could believe either one.

      4. I think that’s pretty unfair. He didn’t deny being part of the site and frankly his explanation seems completely reasonable. The woman in question already has trust issues if she was snooping around instead of being direct.

        As for the discussing sexual things they’ve done, perhaps he was interested in possibly cheating, that also seems reasonable, but he never followed up on it according to him And the emails in question. This woman should get tested every six months anyway (as we all should) but accusing him of cheating right off the bat sounds like projection of something you experienced rather than fact-based opinion.

      5. Avatar photo bittergaymark says:

        Agreed. This is such a mountain out of a molehill.

      6. ele4phant says:

        Whether or not its fair, this LW is uncomfortable being with a guy who needs a sexual outlet that involves other living, breathing women (even if they’re connecting online).

        Please don’t think I’m defending this woman’s actions, snooping through your partner’s personal email is a pretty shitty thing to do. But! People should try to find partners who share the same boundaries. Its clear these two have very different ideas about what’s okay and what’s not. And I get the sense the guy knew she was someone who wouldn’t be okay with him having online sexual exchanges, and rather than bring it up, he hide it until she found out. That kinda sucks. He should have brought it up rather than mislead her, and if she couldn’t deal with it, move on from one another.

        So while I don’t think he deserves to be called a POS, I don’t think they should be together. They’re incompatible, and seeing as they’ve *only* put in nine months, it makes more sense to break up and let eachother find someone they do jibe with better.

        If they were married with three kids and joint checking account, then it’d be worth trying to make it work. But they’ve barely just begun, so they should do each other a favor and move on.

  1. Avatar photo theattack says:

    Oh Lord. WWS. I could say so much about these points, but no. No more needs to be said. Just walk away and leave him to his sex-site devices.

  2. LW if you forgive him for this, he *will* do it again. Please, from someone who has gone through something similar, get out while you still have some self respect.

    1. He will also probably learn to lie and conceal better.

  3. Okay, sometimes the LWs’ attempts to justify their SOs are really frustrating.
    “He was honest about it and told me that he signed up for the site when he was with his previous partner (their relationship was really bad for ages, mainly because of her, and he only stayed with her as long as her did because he was in love with her and thought things would get better). He said he signed up because it was a way of escaping reality and her.”

    1. I was especially annoyed that this guy blamed most of the problems of the last relationship on the ex, while trying to make himself sound like a good guy (I stayed for looove!).

      Well OP, now you know how he acts when there are “problems.” And now you know how he’ll talk about your relationship with the next girl.

  4. Moneypenny says:

    Seriously, WWS. So many red flags here! The mere mention of him having *recently* been chatting with another woman would have me dump him right there. I’d never be able to trust him after that.

  5. kerrycontrary says:

    Oh my god…he lied to you about even remembering he was on the site, and then someone messaged him, and now he’s communicating with her. Oh, and it’s not hard to delete your profile off of any site so he’s lying about that too. He’s a liar, MOA.

    1. painted_lady says:

      Yeah, that was the lamest part as far as I was concerned. I may forget whether I locked my car, I may forget paper towels at the grocery store, but I’m not going to forget that I joined what’s either a hookup or a kink site. Maybe you forget to mention it on a single evening, but for nine months straight? I call bullshit.

      1. 6Napkinburger says:

        To be fair, I think I’m still a member of one of those fitness track-your -calorie and workout sites– and there was a whole community and a way to get and send messages. I haven’t thought about it in years — until right now — and I’m probably still a member. And I totally forgot that I was still on OKCupid when I moved out of state– for real. It took someone a couple of days ago ON A DATE pointing to the app which is on my phone (and not in one of those folders either) asking about it for me to be like, oh, I totally forgot I was still on that. And I wasn’t even lying — my life totally turned upside down (new job, new city, trying to find a place to live, trying to make friends, etc) that I just didn’t give a dating site a single thought. So I do buy that that is possible.

        But the other stuff? It is certainly … not awesome. Especially the part where she/he blames all the problems in the last relationship on the ex — on “her.” How do you know that they were all her fault? Who says “my last failed relationship? That was entirely on me” unless they are having some sort of come to jesus moment about it.

  6. What do I think? I think I’d be pissed if I found out my husband was exchanging sexual stories/conversation with other women. I’d also have issues with being part of the sex site, but depends on what the site is exactly. I read a few erotica sites, that I don’t think you can message other readers/writers (I’ve never looked into it), so that I wouldn’t be upset about. However if this is one of those dating/casual sex sites, yeah, I’d flip my lid a little bit.
    With only 9 months put into the relationship, I’d say just jet. Not really worth the time and effort to make him realize he’s being a douche. And at this point, if he’s ok doing whatever he’s doing behind your back (like he really forgot he’s on a sex site…) then he’s obviously not into this relationship much at all. Maybe he pulled this same shit on his last girlfriend, and not that lame story he told you.
    And the fact that he told you he went on this site while still in a committed relationship is a HUGE red flag. He admitted to fucking around, maybe not in person, while still in a relationship. Is that really something you want to have to worry about?

  7. WITR (Wendy Is Totally Right)

    The fact that this guy cheated online with his past girlfriend because there was problems (and what, he thought things would get better so he stayed in the relationship and got off on internet genitals??? Yah, that will make things a TON better. Super smart, dude.) = BAD

    The fact that you are fine with his previous justifications of cheating on his past girlfriend = ALSO BAD

    The fact that he still is on said site = REALLY BAD

    The fact that he excused being on this site by saying he “forgot about it” and “was trying to cancel it” = STUPID because holy hell how hard is it to cancel a sex profile?? And I’m sorry, he forgot? Yeah right. If he has to “unsubscribe” it means he was “subscribed” and got regular updates. More like, he let the account stay dormant in case you argued with him about anything and he gets the justification he needs to talk with sex ladiez without guilt.

    The fact that he messaged ANOTHER WOMAN about sex again and again while being with you = ALL CAPS REALLY REALLY BAD

    Dump. This. Loser. You know that past girlfriend where things were really bad and he needed an escape and he totally wouldn’t do that to you because you guys are in such a good place? YOU ARE HER IN THE FUTURE. You don’t even get a hoverboard. He will delete this account now, but, believe it or not, there are other ways to meet women on the internet to talk about sex and he will find them when you call him on any of his bullsh*t or you deprive him of sex once and he get’s hurt and horny. He will burn you with this sh*t. Move on.

    1. Avatar photo landygirl says:

      Excellent response.

  8. Umm, yeah. His shady “justification” for why he was on the site in the first place would be enough for me to MOA. Really? He was still in love with his ex but she was evil and crazy (right?) so he started getting his kicks on a sex site? Never mind the fact that he exchanged messages with a woman since you’ve been together. Shady, shady, shady.

  9. WWS! He has lied and is lying to you, so why do you want to be with someone like that? And really, he’s a member of a sex site and is trying to figure out how to delete it. It’s not rocket science – he can probably shut it down from his account details page or call the customer service line. Did it ever occur to you that he’s paying for this and he is basically into prostitution/prostituting?

  10. Completely with Wendy on this one. Also, what is with people being on Craigslist, sex sites, live web cam sites? Either a high number of people into these things date people that write in for advice, or I’m so behind the times. Whatever happened to good old regular porn?

    Also, this isn’t the first time I heard someone use the excuse that they “are trying to delete their profile” on these things. If they are resourceful enough to track down, register, and communicate with people via a sex website, I think they can master finding an “unsubscribe” or “delete” button. And for someone who claims he’s bad at communicate, he sure seems to have no longer communicating with random women on sex sites.

    My post is all the place, but basically he’s lazy, stupid, and possibly a cheater and banking on you being a pushover enough to stay with him. MOA.

  11. Wendy is 100% right. These are not just red flags, they’re crimson red flags. You left out how you found out about his profile and messages. Presumably you were looking at his email. His email is none of your business. Why were you looking at it in the first place?
    You need to answer that question honestly with yourself.
    Then you talked about why he signed up for the sex site originally. “Their relationship was really bad for ages, mainly because of her, and he only stayed with her as long as her did because he was in love with her and thought things would get better.” You are, of course, only hearing his side of the story. That the relationship was bad mainly because of her. His version of events doesn’t exactly sound credible. Anyone who signs up for a sex site while in a committed relationship is seriously violating that relationship. Read that again. Your boyfriend violated his committed relationship, even if he wants to justify it by saying how bad his ex was.
    Is it possible he forgot he signed up for the site and only recently started getting emails and messages again? Yes, it’s possible, but not probable. But the minute he received the messages he could have clicked “delete.” He didn’t. He responded to the messages. And it doesn’t really matter if there wasn’t much detail in the messages. What matters is that he responded to them, and in doing so, it was completely disrespectful and hurtful to you, so much so, that you needed to write into Wendy.
    So in order to earn your trust back, your boyfriend tells you that you can read all his emails. As if that’s the solution. He can easily set up fake email accounts that you wouldn’t be able to find.
    I once had a friend whose boyfriend was emailing back and forth with women who had personal ads on Craigslist. And she forgave him. I asked her why and she said because aside from this issue, he treated her well and she loved him. What I told her is that those two things do not add up. A man who loves you will not email other women about sex. A man who respects you will not violate your trust in such a deeply personal way. A man who treats you well will not do those things.
    You asked Wendy and the readers what we think, and I think you should move on to a man who truly respects you and wouldn’t dream of responding to messages from a sex site.
    But that is not our decision to make, and we don’t know every particular of the situation.
    If you had been together longer and had made a permanent commitment, I would go to couples counseling. But if he’s doing this to you after 9 months, I’d cut my losses.

    1. Really great response, and I totally didn’t comprehend that bit about “Their relationship was really bad for ages, mainly because of her” the first time reading it. So basically he got the LW to believe that not only was it his ex girlfriend’s fault that the relationship was bad and he was just the good guy trying to stick it out, but that it was also his ex’s fault that he had to look elsewhere for sweet lovin so he totally had reason to get internet poon because of her actions. Man, the LW better watch out, because I am falling in LOVE with this guy. What a prince.

      Btw, should we call them Oxblood flags? That color is so in right now.

  12. Avatar photo GatorGirl says:

    #1 – Listen to Wendy.

    #2 – You might be the most gullible person ever. He “forgot” about the account but was messanging some one recently? He can’t figure out how to delete his account? (Hint, there is usually an “unsubscribe” button or a “deactivate my account” button. Or you can e-mail/call their subscriber services and ASK HOW TO CANCEL!!)

    #3 – Go get a check up.

  13. Avatar photo landygirl says:

    I hope after you read Wendy’s response and the response of the other readers, he becomes your ex-boyfriend.

  14. bittergaymark says:

    Eh, they’ve been dating for a whopping nine months. Seriously, nine measly fucking months. I guess that’s like a REALLY long time if — what? You’re in highschool? Whatever. I simply don’t get how and why everybody expects monogamy, commitment, and full blown emotional fidelity when you are just basically dating. Seriously. That’s all you are doing here dating… Where do you all even get off expecting commitment where there is no promise of any? Seriously? It defies all common sense and logic. It really, truly does.

    Meanwhile, don’t go snooping around if you don’t wanna find shit. And this is a rather meager find here… Sounds like he uses the site as interactive porn meets email-sex. Whoop-de-do.

    I do love how our poor little Nancy Drew here is dating somebody “unscrupulous” — but invading his privacy and basically living out your life some deranged stalker bitch is apparently a-okay. Yikes. Once again, I am simply so glad to be gay where I’ve never had to once (in my many many years of dating!) put up with such batshit crazy double standards.

    1. They made a promise to be monogamous. Why should it matter how long you’ve been dating.

      1. bittergaymark says:

        Where does it say that? Seriously — where? It’s interesting how she may have assumed that… but even she never FLAT out states that that conversation ever happened… The ongoing, constant assumption of monogamy that so many make is such an epic fail — it amuses me to no end.

      2. ele4phant says:

        Well, would it have been relevant for her to include that they had the conversation? She called him her “boyfriend”, and I personally don’t call someone my boyfriend unless we’re both clear on why we’re using those labels. Otherwise, he would be “this guy I’ve been seeing”. Again, she’s not me, but I think its not a huge leap to assume that if they’re good on the boyfriend/girlfriend labels, they’re also good on the expecation of monogamy.

        And while I think no one should just *assume* exclusivity, no matter how long you’ve been seeing one another, I would hope by nine months it would’ve come up. While nine months is not a long relationship, it is long enough that you should know the person well enough to know if you’re potentially interested in being serious with them, and I would hope it would’ve been discussed months prior.

        Obvisouly, many many people don’t communicate as well as they should, but I think if you *know* you’re not interested in a serious relationship with someone, letting it get to nine months of dating without saying “BTW, I am not and will not be interested in a serious relationship with you. Are you okay with that?” is kind of cruel. Don’t waste someone’s time unless they’re okay with the proposition of it never going anywhere You can only casually date for so long without clarifying your intentions, and nine months is well past that date.

      3. ITA. I don’t think its wrong for my fuck buddy to fuck 100 other girls (uh, lets hope he showers between sessions-ha) but if my boyfriend even online sex chats, thats it. We’re done. Its not about the act in relation to how prude or frigid i am, but the deception and breach of trust that is not ok. IF my boyfriend wants the option of sex chatting, but nothing physical with other women, well thats another thing he should bring up and you know what, I might be ok with it. He won’t know til he asks me though. People, TALK TO EACH OTHER about your ‘kinks/desires’ the worse is they say no. But don’t go behind a partners back without prior agreement. Its really that simple. And LWs, DTMFA who does. Its just NOT OK. You have Lili’s permission, Wendy’s blessing and Dan Savage’s exasperation to feel better in that choice.

      4. ele4phant says:

        Yep yep yep.

        I personally would not be comfortable with my boyfriend sharing a sexual experiences with another woman, virtually or otherwise. He IS allowed to have his own private sexual thoughts that don’t include me. And there’s nothing morally wrong with people who enjoy cyber sex, and there are many men and women who aren’t bothered at all if there partner engages in it. I’m not one of them, and apparently neither is the LW. Which becomes the problem. Everybody is allowed their own line in the sand, but you shouldn’t partner yourself off with someone else who has a very different idea about what’s okay and what’s not.

        Furthermore, if you’re aware that your GF/BF is totally uncool with it, lying is bad. Instead of lying you should recognize you’re incompatible, and do each other a favor and let one another go.

        And snooping? That’s just as bad as lying.

        Bottom-line, nine months is not a huge investment of time. Its clear they’re not right for one another, so don’t drag it out. On to the next!

      5. Being serious doesn’t imply exclusivity. Those are two different things.

      6. ele4phant says:

        It is possible to be in a serious relationship that’s not exclusive, they are two seperate things yes.

        But let’s face it, in terms of hetreosexual couples, it is. Whether it “should be” or “has to be” is besides the point, the overwhelming majority of straight couples in serious relationships are also monogamous. So, unless otherwise specified, its logical to assume that this couple is like most straight couples, and therefore exclusive.

        She didn’t say anything about them previously agreeing to be non-monogamish, or monogamish; in fact she was upset at just a whiff of him being with someone else.

        So it makes no sense to assume that their relationship is serious but open.

      7. ele4phant says:

        Rereading the letter, I am even more convinced that they do have an established, exclusive relationship.

        The LW says that after she discovered his account, he told her it was left over from when he had an ex. When she snooped and found the messages, he told her he’d delete the account and offered to let her read all of his emails.

        Would you offer these indulgences to somone you were just casually dating and not exclusive with? I wouldn’t. If they were “just dating” his response should’ve been

        “Hey crazy-pants, we’re not exclusive. Sorry if you didn’t get the memo, but we aren’t together exclusively. I’m going to just move along now, because you’re clearly a crazy stalker, bunny-boiler. Take care.”

        If he doesn’t think they’re an exclusive committed couple, he’s doing a terrible job of making that clear to her.

      8. I think you are right BGM. In the hetero world there tends to be an assumption that monogamy is the default, and that if that is not what you want the onus is on you to be clear about that. Whereas with many of my gay friends, definitely if monogamy is desired, then THAT is a conversation you should specifically have or risk finding out your partner has a wider field of play. I also think the assumption of monogamy was not always as prevalent for heteros. In the late 70s, early 80s, before HIV became widely known, it was the quote-unquote sexual revolution, and things were looser. (Yes, I am that old.) I think the moral/religious right used HIV as a stick to cadge people into being afraid to be open and positive about sex for the wrong reasons. None of this implies that the LW’s guy isn’t a douchenozzle, nor that she isn’t a snoop who deserves to get busted for it, and deserves to find what she looked for. To me, the fact that she doesn’t mention him being angry about the snooping is an admission of guilt on his part. Even a halfway decent liar would have used her snooping as justification to take the moral high ground. But it sounds like he immediately rationalized his behaviour, which you wouldn’t do if it was innocent, as in “So what? we’re just dating, not married, and my online activities are my own business.” (The fact that I am monogamous, by choice, does not mean that I consider it the only option, even for me, if my circumstances were different.)

      9. I’m guessing they decided to be boyfriend/girlfriend based on the tone of hte letter and when you decide that, the default norms apply UNLESS you talk about it with your SO beforehand. Since he obviously didn’t talk about it with her he breached her trust. Hetero relationships are different from LGBT relationships but that’s usually the way it goes.

        And for the record I don’t believe in those “you technically never said we couldn’t sex chat iwth other people” or “you technically never said I couldn’t sleep with anyone”. People know when someone else is thinking monogamy/exclusivity and they totally take advantage of that when they resort to the “technically didn’t” argument. And that’s wrong. If it feels shady it’s because it is shady

    2. Generally when you’re dating someone “exclusively” (yes, even if it’s JUST dating), the expectation is that you NOT troll the internet looking for other sex partners. If that’s your thing, then you should discuss it first to figure out boundaries.

      And yeah, snooping is terrible. That should have been HIS dealbreaker.

    3. ele4phant says:

      I agree with everything you said…except I don’t think nine months is an unsubstaintial amount of time.

      I mean yes, when you compare it to couples who’ve reached their golden anniversaries its just a blip, but still, I would expect if you’ve been dating someone for nine months, that’s long enough to know you if you want to be serious about them. I’d say if you haven’t decided at nine months whether you like someone enough to stick around, you in fact don’t like them enough and aren’t being upfront about it. If they’ve both been to immature to have that conversation a long time ago (say six months prior) shame on them for making assumptions, but I don’t think anyone is out of bounds for being under the impression a nine month relationship is serious, or at least headed towards serious. If you’re not intersted in someone after nine months of dating, stop wasting their time or make it VERY clear you just want something casual.

      But yes, don’t snoop if you don’t want to find anything. And everyone is entitled to some privacy (even in the most serious relationships) and everyone is entitled to have part of their sex life that’s theirs alone and not shared with their partner. I agree that having some mutual masturbatory session over the interwebs doesn’t necessarily mean you’re interested in cheating in real-life, but some women may be insecure about it. So hide it well, or find a woman who isn’t bothered.

    4. It is interesting how she left out the details of how she found out about the sex sites and how she got the exchange between the boyfriend and the other woman/women. If you have to go snooping, then that’s not a good sign for how things are in your relationship, and you sure better be ready to deal with what you find once you do.

      That said, once she did find out, it was not cool for him to pass the buck (“I only did it because my old GF was soooo bad….”) and saying he didn’t know/forgot/was just about to deactivate the account was total BS. If you’re into interactive porn meets e-mail sex, then you should own it and be willing to disclose it way before the nine month mark in a relationship.

      They both have some honesty and communication problems to work through. Which gets us back to WWS…this whole situation stinks and she should MOA – not to stop him from going to the porn he loves, but because they both don’t trust each other enough to be honest with each other.

      1. Or themselves for that matter.

    5. Avatar photo landygirl says:

      Ya, just let the guy off the hook and blame the woman. Are you sure you’re not heterosexual?

    6. Anonymous says:

      While I feel so sorry for her and do agree that what’s he going is worse than her snooping, your comments made me laugh, and there was lots of truth to them. So hats off for being so fuckin honest, that it hurts.

  15. Rangerchic says:

    I agree with everyone else – if this is how he reacts with everything isn’t peachy keen it’s a pretty good indicator he just can’t handle the hard times and stress that comes with life and relationships. I know when things get stressful people need an outlet but come on….do some yoga, visit with friends, do some kickboxing but most people don’t turn straight to a sex site.

  16. LW, since you resorted to snooping instead of talking to your partner, your relationship is likely doomed. If you can’t trust your partner after 9 months together, you don’t have a healthy relationship and thus, you should end your relationship.

  17. He admitted that he’s completely spineless and you still find him attractive?

      1. Funniest comment so far

  18. I just want to say, it can be hard to delete your profile from sex-related sites. Like, Ashley Madison wants to charge you like $30 to “scrub your profile”–it’s how they make a lot of their money. So it’s not always that simple.

    That said, he’s a lying sack of shit. Just because you get messaged doesn’t mean you have to respond. Asshole.

    1. Avatar photo theattack says:

      Agreed. I’ll admit to signing up for a porn/sex site one night when I was about 19 and tripping on Ambien (bad, bad times). The next day when I realized what I had done I had to jump through hoops to shut the thing down. The site featured my name and picture on the front webpage even after I deleted my profile, and I had to fight them and make empty threats for legal action in order to get them to remove it. But either way, I did jump through the hoops because I didn’t want that shit. If the LW’s bf was worth being with he would find a way to shut his down too.

  19. Avatar photo Addie Pray says:

    Tech savvy enough to find and interact on a sex site, but not savvy enough to know how to stop it. … Fishy.

  20. and what’s up with all the “pre” excuses for the guy? We all have stresses at work, family issues, tough times, but they don’t make the vast majority of us run right to the computer and start trolling for hotties who’d like to show us their underpants!
    my new maxim: if the letter starts off with a bunch of exculpatory factors for someone’s bad behavior, the advice shall always be MOA!

    1. Any person who gives advice that includes “exculpatory” MUST know what s/he is talking about!


  21. ele4phant says:

    LW, at nine months, a relationship should still be smooth sailing. Even if you’re stressed and overwhelmed with other parts of your life. And nine months, that’s a baby relationship. You should still be in the honeymoon face. If he’s pulling away from you, and if you’re so insecure you’re snooping into his privacy (btw – don’t do that. Ever. Even if you end up having just cause, just don’t), something is not right.

    Relationships are hard. They take work to maintain. But there should be a rosy period at the front end where you build a solid foundation. That’s not what’s happening here, so maybe you’re just not right for each other.

  22. The LW states that since her boyfriend had been cheated on in the past, she doesn’t think he would cheat. I guess I could see why she would hope that, but I don’t agree. You would think that if you’ve been through the pain of being cheated on, you wouldn’t do that to another person. But I’ve been cheated on by someone who has been cheated on. Soooo, yeah, just because he’s been cheated on doesn’t mean he won’t do it to you.

  23. So really… he’s been trying to cancel his subscription since he found out how still had it, but while he’s been “trying” to figure that out, he decided to go ahead and chat up one of the women??? It’s only been 9 months, so I would definitely recommend that you MOA.

  24. 1. Never snoop. It’s crappy and stupid. if you’re having trust issues then Ask your partner if there is a problem or something you want to talk about. Stop being a 3 year old.

    2. This happened to me, a friend of my (now) ex saw my old profile on a dating site. He told my Ex and he asked me about it, I had forgotten all about it. I deleted it and that was the end of it. I hadn’t logged on at all since long before we had started dating, and wasn’t planning on logging in again (because I was happy and I had forgotten about it.)

    3. One thing Wendy (and most advice columnists) doesn’t do which I don’t like is suggest an alternative along the lines of, let’s say this guy Was thinking about sleeping with someone outside of his primary relationship. Considering the incredible amount of cheating going on these days (which in most cases translates to one of 2 things: 1. I’m not getting enough at home and 2. I like variety in sexual partners (which I feel is Completely normal, humans are not monogamous animals, at all.)) maybe we all need to start having honest conversations with our partners about whether or not true 100% monogamy works for us in the first place. it probably won’t longterm for either partner if we’re honest. Open and honest communication about our sexual desires and wants and needs will help foster trust and guarantee we’re with our partners because we want to be, not because we’re trying to live up to a religious-based standard of one man and one woman (or man and man, etc) when nature doesn’t work that way.

    Sex outside love doesn’t mean your partner doesn’t love you most of the time, we all need to start having real conversations about our expectations and if those expectations are reasonable.

    1. See, I have a bit of a problem with this. It’s one thing to define the lines of a relationship to allow for sex with other people, but its entirely another to cheat or cross the monogamous boundary (cheat lite) on your own first and then try to bring to partner in to that lifestyle. Good relationships, whether they include two people or more, are about trust. You can’t violate that trust and then say “oh well, monogamy isn’t realistic, we have to address this outdated notion if we want to last”. The bond is already broken, you can’t justify it with philosophical discussions.

      And this is a personal pet peeve, but I hate the whole “we’re not meant to monogamous because it’s not natural” argument. Monogamy isn’t natural for a lot of animals (yet it is for some, here’s looking at you geese). But the thing about humans is that we’re not just animals, we’re animals with evolved brains. Our brains give us the ability to chose ethical boundaries in our life and not just respond to sexual stimulation everywhere we go. If we want to cheat on partners, its because our ethical boundaries are less strict than another person’s boundaries, not because we’re giving in to our more natural tendencies.

      Personally, I believe a relationship that includes sex with other people can work. But it wouldn’t for me. I don’t think that makes me old fashioned or that my relationship is doomed, I think it makes me an ideal partner for my boyfriend, who also enjoys that the only naughty bits we play tag with are eachother’s.

      1. “If we want to cheat on partners, its because our ethical boundaries are less strict than another person’s boundaries, not because we’re giving in to our more natural tendencies.”


      2. ele4phant says:

        Yep. There is *nothing* wrong with wanting a non-monogamous relationship. There is something wrong with forcing your partner, who is not comfortable with it, into such a situation.

        If you don’t want/can’t be in a monogamous relationship, that’s gotta come up before you mess around with others, perferably before the person has invested a bunch of time and energy into you.

      3. Love your comment Sarah, and I agree that it’s annoying when people talk about how monogamy isn’t “natural” for humans. Hmm, neither is driving in cars, processed food, pharmaceuticals, major medical interventions, living past 35…

        Monogamy is a choice that some people make and it’s what works best for them. You could argue that it’s natural and you could argue that it’s not… but ultimately it doesn’t really matter. If it’s not what you want then that’s fine, so long as you’re honest with your partners about it. I don’t care, everyone’s happy.

      4. Is monogamy a choice made with awareness or an automatic expectation. I’m going with the latter. Your comparison of driving cars makes zero logical sense.

        I think about it this way, humans like variety in everything, food, movies, clothes, job, cars, houses, whatever, to deny that we don’t also very much enjoy and seek out variety in sex and love is ridiculous. Prior to the advent of agriculture, humans didn’t pair off and live alone, they lived in tribes and large groups and monogamy wasn’t a given at all. Religion and the need to defend property and resources (aka not being nomads, being farmers with permanent land) changed all that and Not for the better.

        What I’m saying is we all need to actively define the rules for our relationships. Have the conversation, ask questions like “what do you really want” and “what are the rules for our love”, which is something almost none of us do right now.

      5. ele4phant says:

        “What I’m saying is we all need to actively define the rules for our relationships. Have the conversation, ask questions like “what do you really want” and “what are the rules for our love”, which is something almost none of us do right now.”

        I like this. I can get on board with encouraging people to critically examine what it is that they want for themselves, not just go along with the status quo.

        What bothered me about your previous comment was that it was very “Nature makes us non-monogamous animals; therefore we should ALL be okay with and want multiple partners.” To me, that’s the other side of the same coin with “God says humans should only have sex within marriage. So we should ALL wait until marriage and only be with one person forever.”

        In either circumstance, its one individual invoking some higher power (God/Nature) that can’t really be proven or disproven to use as a stick and beat people over the head with “Hey! I’ve got it right! All you silly people, this is what you should be doing!”

        If you’ve looked critically into yourself and discovered that for *you* it feels natural and normal to have more than one partner, great, say that. But you can’t say what is right and natural for *all human beings* based on your personal preferences.

      6. The funny thing is, I’ve always been monogamous in my relationships and had no desire to seek sex outside what i already had, but I might had I had a long enough relationship.

        None of us are truly monogamous. We’re serial monogamists in most cases. We have many partners across our lives, sometimes casual, sometimes long term.

        And no, I didn’t mean to infer monogamy is impossible, I’m just saying it’s incredibly unrealistic long term. The proof is in the divorce-rate-pudding.

      7. My comparison to driving cars was only meant to illustrate the point that what is natural and what is not natural has nothing much to do with what is best for us in any given situation. If it made “zero logical sense” I doubt 19 people would have agreed with me.

        I agree with you that people should actively define the rules of their own relationships, and honestly I wish people would be more proactive in their lives in general instead of just letting things happen to them. But your comments about monogamy/polyamory are a little weird on this letter, since there is no indication in the letter that this is what the boyfriend wanted or wants. It seems like he’s just a dickbag who knowingly made a commitment and knowingly broke it. It’s kind of like you’re using this letter to shoe horn in your ideas about polyamory.

        I don’t care about other people’s sex lives, so long as they’re not hurting anyone else. But I don’t think that the whole “it’s not natural” argument in regards to monogamy is rational because 1) something being “natural” is not an argument for why we should do it and 2) we didn’t just pull monogamy out of our asses, I honestly think pair bonding in some form IS natural, so saying monogamy isn’t natural is not necessarily true.

      8. Thank you, Sarah!!!

      9. completely agree sarah. it’s one thing to have this relationship BEFORE you start the relationship. once you’re in it and supposedly monogamous it changes things. you’re basically asking to change the terms of the relationship.

        and i love your i’m looking at you geese comment. there are actually a variety of animals that are monogamous. with many more being monogamous from season to season (they have a different mate each season, but keep that one for the duration of that particular season), but hey when you’re not sure if your mate is going to live season to season i guess you have to keep your options open!

      10. A lot of birds are monogamous, surprisingly. There’s one species that practices lifelong monogamy, but with occasionally flings on the side. And if a bird ever catches their partner red handed cheating, they leave them, but only if they catch them. There’s everyone’s weird fact for the day.

        I think obviously humans evolved to pair bond. Maybe not for life, especially given our unnaturally long life spans. But whatever works for a couple works for them and (so long as no one is being hurt or lied to) that’s really all that matters.

      11. yeah, they have something along those lines shown in the life of birds (oh david attenborough), the whole leaving when getting caught. birds are just awesome, but in particular i find their mating rituals to be so cool.

        i agree that it should be whatever works for the couple, but both people should come to the table being very open and honest about what they want. if they don’t want to be monogamous they should be up front about it!

      12. ele4phant says:

        I also like how you brought attention the the whole “naturalness” arguement. Whenever anyone argues that something is “natural” for human beings and therefore right (whether that’s monagomy, breastfeeding, diet, whatever) I automatically tune them out.

        Because a) how do you define “natural” and b) how are you so sure that what you think is the natural state of being is actually “natural” anyways?

        Humans have the wonderful ability to create complex cultures, and that really sets us apart from other critters. Its something we’ve developed that can reinforce but also over-ride natural tendencies. But how can you sort out what’s the result of culture, and what’s embedded in our DNA? That’s pretty much impossible to do. And seeing as culture is developed partly in response to the contexts in which they first emerge, there are many many ways of doing things, that work great some places and terribly others.

        Just looking at sex/marriage, humans have done this many different ways (serial monagomy, monogamously, polyamourously -sometimes multiple women to one man, more rarely multiple men to one woman – so which way is the “natural” way? And furthermore, just because it was the “first” way, does that still mean its the “right” way in modern times?

        What was the first way humans started pairing off? When do we differeniate between modern humans and our ancestors? The beginning of modern homo-sapians? Guess what, we don’t really have a clue what was going on with them, and even if we did, we know they had culture too, so how can we differniate between what was natural for them and what was a cultural response to their surroundings, surroundings we modern humans no longer share?

        Point is, if you are happy being non-monogamous/breastfeeding your kid until their six/eating a paleo diet, you’ll get no guff from me. Its your life and your choices, and as long as you’re happy and not hurting anyone else, carry-on. But stop trying to tell me I should follow your choices because its “natural”. You don’t know that.

  25. painted_lady says:

    New rule for life: if anyone says to you, “I only did it because he/she/you…” then that person is full of shit. We do things because we choose to, and pointing the finger at others only looks weak and blame-y. “I only cheated because she was evil!” “I only punched her because she was bugging me!” “I didn’t want to yell, I just couldn’t help it!” Fuck that. You cheated because it was easier than breaking up. You punched because you don’t know how to communicate anger. You yelled because you were trying to intimidate. Unless there’s some kind of mind control device I’ve never heard of, no one ever makes anyone do anything.

    1. painted_lady says:

      Also, I could conceive of ways that this could be justified in ways I’m okay with. Like, if he said he created it and didn’t know how to tell her that for him, he likes the flirtation of it all. A sexual fantasy that emails back, if you will. Admitted it, apologized for lying, and then letting the LW set some guidelines for this sort of thing. I, at least, could handle that. But it’s the poorly conceived and thinly veiled lies – at best, this guy has some real issues owning his sexuality, and at worst he’s a cheater.

      1. I agree with you, PL. It’s not WHAT he did so much as how he tried to explain/excuse it. The BS about doing it to “escape” his last girlfriend who was oh so mean to him made me want to spew burrito chunks.

      2. painted_lady says:

        Oh don’t do that – burritos are so yummy. But yeah, if the evil bitch “made” him cheat, then that means a) it’s really likely LW will become an evil bitch as well, and therefore b) that he will be “forced” into doing something similar, poor baby.

    2. kerrycontrary says:

      Awesome rule!!!

  26. I honestly don’t find the excuse that he forgot he was signed up for it that bad in itself. My roommate forgot she was on OkCupid until she got a random email from a guy (because she was inactive, it didn’t promote her profile, so you’d have to really dig for it). But even if the excuses are true, they don’t make up for several big problems.

    One, that he was exchanging messages recently. Not only does that mean he’s lying, but it means he’s exchanging secret messages about sex with a woman on the internet. Two, a guy who gets on a sex site because he was having problems with his ex does not sound like boyfriend material. What happens when he and the LW go through a rough patch? His solution is apparently not to talk through problems or just break up with someone who isn’t right for him, but have sexual conversations (or more) with other women.

  27. First off, a lot of you are jumping to snooping. All she says is “I recently found out he was a member of some sort of sex/dating site thing.” If she’d said something specific to indicate she was snooping (“I got curious, I ‘just happened to see it’ etc) you’d all have a reason to jump on her about it, but as it is, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to accuse her of snooping.
    I mean, she doens’t even have to actively be looking in the browser history to find it. Say she opens a new tab and starts typing a website name into the bar, and it brings up suggestions on where she wants to go, based on what’s in the browser history. All it needs is a few letters in common with what she’s typing and it will bring up suggestions. Sure, I’m reading just as much between the lines as you are, but I don’t think it’s impossible she could have found this out without snooping.

    Second, I must be the world’s most forgiving person or the world’s biggest, most gullible idiot because I would not automatically MOA over something like this. I’d probably have a long and serious (but compassionate – not lecturing or OMG-freaking) talk with him, get confirmation that his account has been deleted (hell, I’d help him find the delete menu!), and then let him off the hook. I might be suspicious of him for a little while but it wouldn’t break my trust forever and ever.

    And for the record, I have memberships to sites I forget about all the time until they send me a random promotional email. Every six months or so, Writing.com reminds me I haven’t logged on in a while, and I’m like Oh crap, I need to get on there and retrieve the work I have saved there and get rid of that account because I simply never use it…but I never get around to it. Sure, it’s a social network for writers and not a sex chat site, but I can totally see how someone would have a site membership and forget about it for 9+ months. I agree he shouldn’t have chatted with the girl whose message reminded him that he’s a member, he should have logged in and deleted the account right away. But if all they did was swap stories about sexual experiences of the past, then pffft. There are way, way bigger problems in this world to get your panties in a twist over, IMHO.

    But again, I just might be a gullible, forgiving idiot for believing anything he said and wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    1. ele4phant says:

      “Say she opens a new tab and starts typing a website name into the bar, and it brings up suggestions on where she wants to go, based on what’s in the browser history. All it needs is a few letters in common with what she’s typing and it will bring up suggestions. Sure, I’m reading just as much between the lines as you are, but I don’t think it’s impossible she could have found this out without snooping.”

      In my opinion, that’s still snooping. Maybe not as actively intentioned, but if you are using someone else’s computer and you see websites they’ve gone to and *knowingly decide to navigate to them to see what’s up*, that’s snooping. That’s making the decision to check-in and see what your SO has been up to on online. Just because you’re not hacking into the history, just because it takes zero effort on your part, its still you checking out what your SO has been up to online without their permission.

      If this was the case, should he have cleared his browsing history? Maybe, but I try to extend my BF the courtesy of knowing I trust him and will not take an easy opportunity to check up on his online activities. People shouldn’t have to censor their browsing history or go back and cover their tracks just so they won’t get snooped on.

      1. OK, so if you were typing “ashevillenorthcarolinacabins . com” in the URL bar and “ashleymadison . com” came up as a suggestion, you wouldn’t be WTF is this? You wouldn’t investigate it further AT ALL?

        Or I guess that’s a bad example because most people already know what AM is… what about, you’re typing in “meetup . com” and it suggests “meetsexysingles . com.” You wouldn’t click to see what the hell that is?

        If you honestly wouldn’t, then I’ll take you at your word; I guess some women have more willpower than I do. My curiosity works faster than my rationality.

      2. Avatar photo theattack says:

        Hell, I think it’s completely rational to click through. Sorry, but if I saw something pop up as suggestive as meetsexysingles, I would sure as hell want to follow through and know about it. I don’t understand why anyone would avoid clicking on it out of courtesy for their bf. Something that is that strongly suggestive needs to be investigated, and I have no interest in being courteous enough to sit back and turn a blind eye to being cheated on. I truly do not understand that logic.

      3. 6Napkinburger says:

        Exactly. Snooping indicates a lack of trust initially. having the weird thing popup accidentally/inadvertently which is overtly suspicious in its own right– that’s something else. Is it a little disrespectful? maybe. But I don’t think it is demonstrative of a lack of trust. There’s a very crass expression which is something along the lines of “don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining” — i think the same logic applies. If I go on his computer and (truly) don’t realize that his gmail is open and not mine and see a letter with an interesting subject line and click on it, and suddenly realize that I’m staring at illicit correspondence — I’m not going to feel bad that I breached his privacy. Because it had nothing to do with trust.

      4. Avatar photo theattack says:

        Exactly! But if I started reading the letter and realized I was reading something I wasn’t supposed to, and it was something that indicated he was cheating on me, I would definitely keep reading it! There’s a huge difference between going out and looking for something and in running across something suspicious accidentally and checking it out.

      5. Yes! That’s why all the ganging-up-on about “you shouldn’t have been snooping,” especially when there’s nothing specific in the letter to indicate that she was snooping, seemed a little off-base to me.

        And everyone jumping on him about being a big liar liar pants on fire, well – what some call his “obvious lies,” I see enough plausibility for reasonable doubt. It’s plausible to me that he initially signed up for the site when he was with his ex. It’s plausible to me that his last relationship went downhill mostly because of his ex. (Does it say anything good about him that he blamed his ex, or that he used this site to escape instead of addressing his problems? No, but that’s not a reason to MOA immediately. Who the hell DOESN’T have a past relationship story where they handled something badly? This is how we learn, by making mistakes. And it’s not the place of a current girlfriend to punish a guy for mistakes he made with his last girlfriend, in my opinion.)

        The LW didn’t make it sound like he got overly defensive or emotional when she confronted him, and he let her see and read everything – I see signs of remorse and apology in that. I think it’s plausible that he did not have any intentions of meeting up with the woman he started chatting with. I think it’s plausible that he hadn’t actually cheated yet.

        I’m not excusing him completely. He acted stupidly when he started chatting with that woman; he should have shut it down as soon as he got the first message. But, humans being fallible and all, I can see how he made the wrong choice, and if I were in the LW’s position, I’d be able to forgive him for that as long as nothing similar happened again. I guess I was just surprised to see so many people jump on the MOA bandwagon so quickly. I mean, to each their own dealbreakers, but wow.

      6. ele4phant says:

        No, I wouldn’t. I would wait and have the conversation when he got home. I would not click on the link and poke around to see what he’d been up to until I talked to him.

        And knowing what its like to dick around on the internet, and you can get some weird, weird places that don’t really mean anything.

        For instance, *I* went on AshleyMadison once, not because I wanted to have an affair, but because I heard a news story about it and wanted to see the site in person. I would not appreciate if my BF saw that link and jumped to conclusions, so I’d extend him the same courtesey.

        If when we talked, he got weird or defensive, or if I started to notice things outside his internetting choices, well, there’d be follow-up conversations.

  28. I think I dated this guy.

    LW, he’ll keep gaslighting you as long as you let him get away with it. Personally, I think he probably hasn’ t cheated – he likes the attention and the thrill of the secrecy of the online interaction. But he’s too chickenshit to admit it like a grownup; instead he’s concocted this bullshit story and he’s hoping you’ll be enough of a sucker to fall for it. Don’t.

  29. “… and met through a mutual friend.”

    Am I the only one who read that and got caught up on that?
    (I mean, I think this LW needs to MOA quick, fast, and in a hurry. If nothing else because she seems to make excuses for his negative behaviors, and that’s never a good sign.)

    But that little tidbit makes me feel like there’s something about how they met that she wanted to cover up. Who knows? Maybe I’m just nitpicking….

  30. I find some of the comments on this a little over-the-top. For me, the worst thing here is that he blamed his ex for how bad their relationship was. That’s a bad explanation of his behaviour and not very mature of him. But I would guess that he felt defensive and stressed when you confronted him, so maybe this is not indicative of what he really thinks but just a bad excuse he came up with at that moment.
    The fact that he chatted with a woman does not necessarily indicate he wanted to meet her, although it could surely be the case. It could also be that he is just into the chatting. I would see this more as an opportunity to talk about boundaries than to MOA. What matters is whether he’s being honest about his intentions and ready to keep his commitments. He might not be, but I can’t say that for sure from the letter. You need to do the same: Make sure that he knows what you are and aren’t comfortable with. Have an open conversation about your respective desires and boundaries. The worst thing you could do is to just gloss over this and hope he’ll never do anything like it again.

  31. Jeeeez… only just found these!! there are so many to read through!
    thanks for the advice/ some abuse..
    I waasn’t ‘snopping’.. he was asleep, his phone was near me on the bedside table and kept making noises, like email notifications and fb, I picked it up to try find out how to put it on silent so it wouldn’t wake him, and as there was a notification for an email it popped up.
    yes I may be a little insecure, but I’m am dealing with that, as in my previous relationship, my ex cheated on me.
    His ex was a big problem to him, she was physically and emotionally abusive. I don’t condone him going on the site while he was with her, but I know why he says he stayed because he still loved her, he thought he loved her, didnt know a way out etc.

    To the person who said it sounded odd (sorry not sure on your name, as I read loads of posts just now) the way I said ‘we met through a mutual friend’ ..don’t worry it wasn’t weird… I have a close male friend, who was there for me when I needed him with things to do with my ex, who also happened to be there for my current boyfriend when he needed him to do with his ex too.. we didn’t know it at the time and didnt know each other… then down the line we met up at like a friend gathering..

    Yes I am still with him.. things are better now then they have been for a while really.. he was open to me and fully admitted what he did and that he was wrong to do it, and hated that he did it.. he also admitted he was glad I found out, not in a nasty way, but he wanted me to know, but didnt know was best to let me know, as he was going to delete it. together we sat down and went through his emails, as he wanted to show me he was deleting all trace of the site, I went on his profile with him to try delete it, and honestly, it took me a while, as some things on it just wouldnt budge,, I dont know if we are both stupid of if the site was jut weird or anything, but I honestly didnt know how to delete it for a while.
    We talked and talked about it all and about us for a while..
    He is building up my trust my again, and he didn’t cheat on me, I know he didn’t. He is now doing all he can to build my trust of him, and to show me that he really does want us and is putting everything into it.

    After my previous relationship I said I wasnt going to let myself get caught up in bad people, who wouldn’t treat me right again.. And I don’t believe I have to be honest, everyone makes mistakes, and as they say ‘everyone deserves a second chance’.. but if anything like this at all happens again then I am leaving him.

    People might think I’m stupid for staying with him, and I guess that’s the risk I have to take, I may lean the hard way, twice… but I am going to risk it, as we only live once, and he might just be the best thing to ever happen to me in the long run.

  32. Just to add..having read more of the comments now…
    Yes we have discussed where we are, how serious we are etc.
    Yes we are boyfriend/girlfriend/exclusive/have an anniversary date etc
    No we are not in high school!!
    Yes we have talked about the future
    No 9 months isn’t that long- but it’s long enough to want to fight and try a little harder
    Can’t believe how many responses there are on here!!

  33. Bellastar says:

    Yep honey… the exact same thing just happened to me last night… thou i am 5 months pregnant. We hardly have sex anymore… I wonder why… I think that it really speaks for itself.. as when i confronted him.. I got its spam, it was probably from 10 years ago, I am not an active member just on the mailing list ( mind you 4 women viewed his profile)… load of bull he keeps spinning and apparently I am now labelled nuts and apparently I am the bad one and he turned it around on me saying he wants to download everything off my iphone… mind you he has already done that once and found nothing… each time I get accussed of crap there is nothing there… but I am not even allowed to talk to some of my oldest girlfriends because he does not approve of them. Thou he has never even met them. i cant even talk to my father without getting in trouble… just not worth my time or heart… i deserve better than his belittling put downs and lies…

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