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“Our Beautiful Neighbor Lady is Getting Too Close with My Husband”
Last night, our other neighbors were having a get-together and I went next door to see what all the noise was. While I was in the bridle trail behind my house, I could see my husband and Ramona standing next to each other. Ramona handed my husband a glass of wine and then proceeded to give him a hug and a kiss on the cheek. I was caught off-guard and walked back to our yard and happened to glance over and I saw her kiss him again through the slats in the fence. I understand that people can become incredibly affectionate while intoxicated, but to a neighbor? It’s not like our families are the closest and we’ve only spoken to them a handful of times. In the morning, my husband said that Ramona’s husband came over and told him to “give it to her nice and slow.” Obviously, he sees what’s going with his wife, too. Either that or he is threatened by any male.
Ramona wears lingerie sleepers and oversized t-shirts without shorts and the collars ripped out while in the presence of my husband. She bends over a lot to, I assume, show off her cleavage/ and or behind since they are typically pointed in his direction. She also brushes his arm or touches it and is constantly hugging and cheek-kissing him.
One night she came over and criticized my housekeeping skills and then brought up _50 Shades of Grey_. She went into detail about some of the sex scenes in the book and suggested I read it to get some ideas in the bedroom. My husband was there and to my knowledge, neither one of us has ever said anything about our relationship to her.
I’ve talked to my husband about all this and although he isn’t necessarily unwilling to tell her to stop, he isn’t confrontational and he tries to be polite, which I don’t fault him for as there is nothing worse than having bad blood with neighbors and starting a feud. Consequently, Ramona continues to freely wander into our garage to “hang out and chit chat” with my husband (he is a night owl and tinkers on things), repeatedly going back to her house to fetch more wine when the bottle empties.
Is there any way that I can tactfully approach this neighbor about her behavior that is really stepping over the line and really upsets me? — Suspicious Neighbor
You know, there probably ISN’T a tactful way to approach a neighbor about hitting on your husband. Anything you say is going to be offensive. I mean, WHAT could you possibly say that wouldn’t offend her? “Hey, could you please wear pants and stop bending over in front of my husband?” is probably a little too forward. So is: “Will you please stop kissing my husband?”
Actually, wait, I like that one. Yeah, why not bake some cookies, bring them over to her house and say, “Listen, we don’t know each other that well and I’m sure you’re just trying to be friendly, but it makes me uncomfortable when you hug and kiss my husband. Those are gestures we usually reserve for family and old friends.” What can she say to that? She’ll be offended, and hopefully embarrassed (if she has any shame at all), but it’s not like you were going to be her best friend anyway. And you can’t argue someone’s discomfort. She can’t very well say, “No, it doesn’t make you feel uncomfortable!” Just frame your discussion around your feelings, which you have ownership of, rather than her intentions, which you don’t have ownership of, and then there’s nothing to argue.
But here’s the thing: she’s not the biggest problem. Your husband is. He’s not respecting you. He brushes off your concerns as if they don’t matter. He’s more interested in appeasing this neighbor women he’s just met than putting you at ease. He’d rather be “polite” to her than risk, what, hurting her feelings by pulling away from her kisses or telling her it’s too late to have company in his garage or turning down her offer for another glass of wine?
Here’s what I think: there’s more going on between them than you see or are willing to accept. I don’t buy that a woman you’ve only talked to a few times would advise you to read “50 Shades of Grey” to spice up things in your bedroom if she honestly didn’t have any clue what was going on in your bedroom. What do you think she and your husband talk about in that garage over multiple bottles of wine until the wee hours of the morning? I’m guessing not the most recent PTA meeting.
Furthermore, why is it that you’ve only talked to Ramona a handful of times but your husband seems to be super chummy with her? Why is he hanging out with her at night instead of you? Why, when you spy on them at a party from the Bridle path near your house, did you not go join them and put your arm around him? If I saw my husband cozying up to a woman who routinely ran around with no pants on and kissed him on the cheek constantly and drank wine with him in his garage until the wee hours of the morning, I wouldn’t just turn around and head home. I’d step in and remind them both who he’s married to.
You say you’ve already talked to your husband, but I don’t think you’ve talked enough. Something’s up with him and my guess is that whatever might be going on between him and Ramona probably starts with whatever is up between the two of you. Maybe he feels like he isn’t getting enough attention from you. Men are pretty simple. They like affection, attention, and eye candy. If they aren’t getting that from their partners, then someone who is offering it up for free all the time is going to be appealing to them.
I’m not saying your husband is cheating on you or that he’s even interested in Ramona. But, reading between the lines of your letter, I do think it’s possible he might be feeling neglected and probably enjoys getting whatever attention he can from the neighbor with no class. Regardless, a more serious conversation with him is overdue. This is more than just telling him that Ramona’s behavior upsets you. It’s time to let him know that HIS behavior upsets you. Are you really OK with him letting some woman hang out in his garage late at night? Are you OK with him being chummy with a woman who doesn’t wear pants? I mean, if she wants to run around half-naked, that’s on her. If your husband allows her to kiss him and touch him and drink with him and hang out in his garage all night, that’s on HIM.
He’s the one who’s married to you. Ramona really doesn’t owe you squat. Your husband? He owes you a lot more respect that what he’s been giving you. And it may be that you owe him a little more attention and affection than you’ve been doling out. Think of this as an opportunity to re-evaluate the state of your marriage and discuss how you can make each other a little happier and more satisfied. A strong union should be able to withstand even the most flirty (and pants-less) of neighbors.
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kerrycontrary September 25, 2012, 9:08 am
WWS! Your husband is the problem here. It’s not your responsibility to tell this woman to back off, because your husband is the one being hit on. He needs to tell her to back off, politeness aside.
Oh, and your husband isn’t a “typical male” who doesn’t notice a woman flirting with him. When I read that I thought you were going to say she touched his arm once in a while, not walked around half nude and hugged/kissed him. In fact, I’m sure he more than notices and is enjoying it. She kissed him on the cheek! If a drunk man went to kiss me I would pull away faster than a bunny being chased by my dog. That’s so inappropriate, how did you not freak out!? LW, I think you are in total d-e-n-i-a-l about what is going on between these two. Whats even more dangerous than her physical flirtation is that your husband stays up late talking to her. He’s opening up emotionally, and that’s where affairs develop.
laxhaxtax September 25, 2012, 9:12 am
I think this drunk woman and her husband are into swinging or some other type activity. He is way to comfortable with his wife coming onto another man. The husband of the writer is either already busy with the other woman or soon will be. The excuse that he is non-confrontational is silly. EVERY SINGLE TIME THE WOMAN COMES OVER EVEN IF IT IS THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT THE WRITER SHOULD SIT HERSELF DOWN IN THE GARAGE AND JUST WAIT THE TWO OF THEM OUT. At some point she should tell her husband he is either going to be on board with her or not. This mess isn’t just a red flag…..it is a disaster in the making. I don”t think the husband is going to fall madly in love with a drunk but he sure looks like he is more than willing to fall in lust with her. What a mess!!!
theattack September 25, 2012, 10:24 am
Not to mention that Ramona’s husband told the LW’s husband to “give it to her nice and slow.” They’re either swingers or in an open marriage.
Eve Harrison September 25, 2012, 11:27 pm
I was thinking the exact same thing. Either way if swinging is a part of your relationship you are trying to avoid, then by all means, establish a boundary.
laxhaxtax September 26, 2012, 5:59 pm
After posting on here I went online and read hundreds of letters written by women who were in agony because they were married to cheaters. Some had children, some did not but they all hurt like hell over the affairs. I think you, and all those women, want someone to give you a miracle and make the bad stuff go away. Your husband is suppose to be an adult. He is suppose to accept that he will be tempted and will not act on that temptation because he loves you. Right now it appears from your letter that he is NOT ignoring the temptation at all. I wish all the letter writers could give you your miracle but this is your marriage. You need a backbone. The word “no” is a very good one to use right now. He needs for you to tell him that you will not tolerate any more of his passivity or her come-ons. You have a right to be happy. If he is going to be the kind of guy who lets his wife hurt like this what kind of husband is he? Get mean. Get tough and get her out of the picture, period. So what if they are neighbors. My husband and I had to get tough with a man who lived next door and never knocked but just walked in and his excuse was he was being neighborly. Yeah, right. My husband told him he was not welcome and he and his family moved soon after.
emjay September 26, 2012, 7:55 pm
I really liked both of your responses. I would have completely flipped out the first time this happened, and I would def not tolerate it at all. I will admit that I am the jealous type, and this behavior is screaming CHEATER to me! Even if it is just an emotional affair but to me emotional affairs can be far worse than a physical one. And I say this because he is going to ANOTHER WOMAN to talk to, and to have someone listen to him. At first they start out as small talk, and then before you know it, he is spilling his guts to her and telling her about his day, plans, dreams etc. Instead of you.
Please do yourself a favor. First, stand up to ypur husband and firmly put an end to this on his end of things. You need to tell him that you will no longer tolerate this kind of behavior, and him brushing it off out of “neighborly respect” is a load of BS. He likes the attention and that is why he is allowing it to continue.
2nd, tell this woman that you and your husband are not swingers (if you are not) and that her over aggresive affection toward your husband is completely disrepectful to you and you will no longer put up with it. I would also tell her that if does not stop, that is is no longer welcome on your property. If she continues, then I would have the cops called for trespassing.
And if your husband does not respect you enough to stop this from going on, then he is a dog and you have to ask yourself, how many other women has this happened with before, and you didn’t even know about it.
What’s that famous saying: Oh Yeah: “Once a cheater, always a Cheater.” (Doesn’t matter if it is emotional or physical)
JK September 25, 2012, 9:14 am
WWS x a million!
I get that Ramona is being inappropriate, but she doesn´t owe you anything. Your husband does.
And if he doesnt want to be “confrontational” next time Ramona is hanging all over him and kissing him, all he has to do is walk away, he can invent having to go get something, if that´s what it takes. The fact that he didn´t do this is pissing ME off, I don´t know how you, LW aren´t more angry.
JK September 25, 2012, 9:34 am
ps. I love the picture!
ChemE September 25, 2012, 9:43 am
I agree, how is she not mad at him? I want to slap him and her for being so naive.
Christy September 25, 2012, 9:20 am
Oh Wendy, I love you. Great response. Thank you for acknowledging that the LW’s husband has to take some damn responsibility. The LW did a great job of blaming the neighbor for everything, and you did an even better job of refocusing her.
Seriously, you’ve been hitting it out of the park recently.
JK September 25, 2012, 9:23 am
I totally agree.
And what IS with women putting all the blame on “the other woman”. I´m not saying what the other person is doing is right, but LWs husband isn´t some poor little victim here. And I´ve seen this same thing repeat in several letters.
Christy September 25, 2012, 9:57 am
Can we make this a larger discussion? ITA with JK. Why do women assume the worst of each other and the best of their men? It’s really frustrating.
JK September 25, 2012, 10:03 am
I know! It´s always “the skank led him on” “he was really drunk and she came onto him” etc.
If my husband ever did anything inappropraite, let alone cheating, he would be the first (and main) object of my wrath. Sure I´d get mad at the woman as well (esp. if I knew her, I guess), but the husband is the one who promised the wife respect, fidelity, whatever, not the other woman!!!
Desiree September 25, 2012, 10:03 am
It is easy for the LW to see this woman as an “external evil” to be dealt with. Acknowledging her husband’s role is a lot harder to do and will hurt a lot more, even though it’s the real solution.
landygirl September 25, 2012, 11:36 am
I think it’s easier to blame the other woman than to realize that they are married to an asshole who is easily distracted by temptation.
Riefer September 25, 2012, 12:54 pm
It’s not just their own men. Do you remember when Sandra Bullock’s husband cheated on her with that tattoo artist woman? Oh my god, the comments about that were crazy. People did call him a slimebag, but WAY MORE were coming down on her for sleeping with a married man. Excuse me? HE’S the one who made marriage vows. HE’S the one who promised to be faithful. She’s single and free to sleep around with whoever she wants. Do I think it’s immoral to sleep with a married person? Yes I do. Do I think it’s MORE immoral to cheat on your spouse who you supposedly love? YES I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Z September 25, 2012, 1:03 pm
I think it’s easier to blame the other woman because if you blame your husband, you’re sort of blaming yourself, in a roundabout way. YOU married this man and YOU trusted him to be faithful, so YOU made a mistake if he breaks that trust. It’s a lot harder to accept responsibility yourself than it is to blame somebody you have no ties too and thus their actions don’t reflect back on you at all.
SuzyQ September 25, 2012, 10:48 am
I couldn’t agree more. It’s always the other woman’s fault. So he appears to accept the flirtation passively, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t accept or even encourage it. I’d even go so far as to say that he must be encouraging it or she’d have stopped long ago.
And the fact that she’s suggesting “fixes” for their sex life, oh hell no.
Fabelle September 25, 2012, 9:21 am
Wendy is spot-on with this, & I’m especially glad that she pointed out how something more may be going on with your husband & “Ramona”, LW. Your husband isn’t an innocent, clueless victim in this– he AT LEAST likes the attention & listening ear (& he definitely complains about your sex life to this neighbor. I’m sorry. But he definitely does). At most, he’s already doing– something– with her. And if that’s the case, I’m betting Ramona’s husband even knows. “Give it to her nice and slow?” That sounds like a man with a fetish for watching others fuck his wife. (I’m not saying that’s what is actually *happening* right now, but from what you wrote, I believe he LIKES seeing his wife flirt all up on your man.)
I mean. Yes. MAYBE I’m letting my imagination run away with me– sure. But you’re not letting your imagination run at all. If your thoughts really stop at “but he just wants to be polite,” then you’re not thinking OR doing enough. You need to stop blaming Ramona for everything & hold your husband accountable. And hold yourself accountable. If you’re literally watching your husband through “slats in the fence” as he’s letting himself be seduces, then something is wrong.
spark_plug September 25, 2012, 9:35 am
I found that comment REALLY weird as well. As someone else said above, maybe the couple is into swinging. Or maybe they have an open relationship. Where is Ramonas husband at night? Unless he has a night shift, wouldn’t he have some issues with his wife going to drink at the neighbors garage for hours at a time rather than spend time with him? I just find this situation so odd.
The LW could always try what my grandma did. When her husband was getting a bit too much attention from forward women and enjoying at attention, she said – “the next woman I see in this house flirting with you is probably the woman you’ll be living with because I’m going to kick you and all of your shit out of this house”. He never talked to another lady again without standing 4 feet away from her for months after that.
So make a damn demand. Stop being a pussy (I hate that term but I feel that it describes the LW here), stand up to your husband and demand he put a stop to it. And if he doesn’t, if he choses some random slutty alcoholic housewife – well then, better you know now then later.
LK7889 September 25, 2012, 9:36 am
Ramona’s husband saying that definitely gave me the same impression. He knows and he’s ok with it (or even in to it).
Desiree September 25, 2012, 9:28 am
LW, you need to see this for what it is: an affair in the making, if not a full-blown affair already. Those garage meetings? I call those rendezvous. And they are a breeding ground for trouble. You and your husband need to evaluate your marriage and what you both might be needing that you aren’t getting. But first, you need to have a little chitchat about your definition of monogamy with him, because he seems to be struggling with it.
ktfran September 25, 2012, 9:28 am
“my husband said that Ramona’s husband came over and told him to “give it to her nice and slow.”
What the fuck? Seriously? Who says this to another man about his wife?
I’m sorry, this entire letter is all kinds of wrong. And this is coming from a commenter who tells people they are overreacting a lot and to chill.
I agree with Wendy, LW. You are being passive in your own relationship and your husband is being an idiot. Comminicate. Talk to him. And figure something out.
katie September 25, 2012, 9:35 am
this letter is weird. all different kinds of weird…
ktfran September 25, 2012, 9:37 am
That was my first WKTFS! You MADE MY DAY! Thanks katie.
katie September 25, 2012, 9:38 am
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 10:00 am
Does no one have a random inappropriate family member or family friend that says shit like this? Makes jokes about wife swaps? Say things like “go for it – she can be your problem now”. Did I have a disturbed childhood and just not know it? Or did I just grow up around too many booze drinking pantless individuals?
katie September 25, 2012, 10:05 am
no, i think it is mostly normal. i guess i would find it a little odd because 1. he was talking directly about sex (give it to her nice and slow) and thats just kind of gross and 2. she says that that they are new to the neighborhood and not very close with these people
JK September 25, 2012, 10:05 am
I don´t know, we have some friends that we joke about that stuff all the time, but the comment Ramona´s husband (allegedly) said grossed me out.
ktfran September 25, 2012, 10:12 am
Agreed. I had to read that comment several times to make sure I read it right. I’m no prude, and joking is definitely ok. But telling someone how your wife likes to have sex? Someeone she is obviously flirting with? That is not ok.
bethany September 25, 2012, 11:10 am
key word “friends”
I only kid like that with people I’m close with, people who know my sense of humor. To joke like that with random neighbor you don’t really know…?? I don’t think so.
JK September 25, 2012, 1:07 pm
And Happy Anniversary! 🙂
Fabelle September 25, 2012, 10:08 am
But a “please take her off my hands!” joke is a little different than walking up to the guy your wife is definitely cozying up to, & suggesting he “give to her nice & slow.”
lemongrass September 25, 2012, 10:41 am
Oh our friends joke about it all the time with us. We can be a million times more inappropriate than this- but they are our friends and we know they are joking. I don’t think that guy was joking nor was he even a friend.
Kate B. September 25, 2012, 1:01 pm
I don’t think that’s normal. But, I also don’t think jokes about infidelity are funny. but I am nortoriously intolerant of any of that stuff. This letter made me livid. I would lose my shit immediately if my husband did this.
ChemE September 25, 2012, 9:29 am
So, yeah, I’d be kicking my husband’s ass if he was participating in this. I don’t care if miss friendly came over naked and bent over like a cat in heat, you husband shouldn’t be entertaining any of her shit.
She kissed him and he did what? Did he tell you she did it? Did you confront him about it? If it were me, I’d be so mad I’d stomp right over there and tell the tramp to get her damn hands off him and tell him to shape up or ship out. In my opinion, whatever they are willing to do in front of other people is nothing compared to what could be happening behind closed doors.
Maybe they are swingers, maybe that’s why he told you what her husband said. Maybe he’s read too many Penthouse stories and is hoping you’ll go along with whatever fantasy he has in his head. Maybe he’s already living some of it and you’re not part of it.
And the part about her coming over to my house at night to hang out, fuck that. I’d be down there harassing both of them if that’s what it took. You don’t like her, you don’t have to entertain her. And your dopey husband should be on board with that.
Fact is, at best he probably likes the attention she’s giving. At worst, they’re going behind your back.
You need to bring all this up to him, tell him HE is disrespecting you and he needs to back off communication with this lady if he wants to continue a relationship with you.
You could tell her off too, but since she obviously doesn’t care if you (or other people) are around, she probably won’t care and will do it more since she knows it pisses you off.
Oh yeah, why was he at this get together and you were sitting at home??
Addie Pray September 25, 2012, 9:31 am
I’m in love with Wendy.
LK7889 September 25, 2012, 9:38 am
Hopefully you are willing to share.
Addie Pray September 25, 2012, 9:43 am
Also, am I the only one who kind of wants to be friends with Ramona? Always drinking wine, never wearing pants… that’s a woman I can appreciate. If for no other reason it validates my own habits.
My other deep thought that I’d like to share is, as a woman who is usually the single one amongst couples and usually drinking wine and generally more touchy feely than the average bear and who when drunk gets worse — actually i get rough when drunk — i show my affection through tackling and headlocks — what’s that about? — my therapist thinks i have a drinking problem (confession!) — but you know what? she can go jump in a lake because i’m frustrated with her right now b/c after one year “together” she has revealed approximately ZERO personal information about herself and it’s not fair because she knows everything about me, literally everything! — I’m digressing — what I want to say is when commingling with the married men it’s very clear where the line is because someone — either me or the husband — has drawn it. If she is constantly acting like that around him then it’s because he is letting her. When she saunters over to the garage late at night with her wine, he’s got to welcome it — how/why else would she continue to do that? I know, there are “stalkerish” people that ignore boudnaries and push things… but come on, that’s the teeny tiny exception to the rule. He’s encouraging her. There, that’s my take on this. Also, I do not have a drinking problem.
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 9:54 am
I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT! She sounds like a blast in a glass. Pants are so 2006.
Addie Pray September 25, 2012, 1:10 pm
Is “a blast in the glass” a Canadian expression? I mean, I know what you mean but I’ve never heard “in a glass.” I also just learned what “MNF” means so take that with a grain of salt.
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 1:22 pm
No it’s a jersey shore reference that no one got 🙁 I’m ashamed.
lemongrass September 25, 2012, 10:43 am
Is your therapist my mother?
Amanda September 25, 2012, 10:32 am
I love Wendy and Addie Pray. 🙂
Addie Pray September 25, 2012, 1:12 pm
And I love Amanda!
Amanda September 25, 2012, 3:38 pm
Awww my heart is melting 😉
katie September 25, 2012, 9:39 am
ok, is that Dr. Ruth? because if it is, i love you, wendy. thats awesome.
Muffy September 25, 2012, 9:46 am
Oh no she didn’t! Put some ex-lax in those cookies when you bring them over to talk to her. And seriously sit down with your husband and ask him what’s up. Feeling neglected is not an excuse but knowing he feels that way is a starting point to fixing your relationship. If he feels neglected he should talk to you instead of seeking out the comfort of some tramp.
Christy September 25, 2012, 9:54 am
Why do women have to attack each other like this? The neighbor is not a tramp. We shouldn’t use these kinds of words against each other. Let’s focus the attacks back on the husband.
Seriously, what has happened to the sisterhood? (That’s another rant for another day. But I hate that we assume that the other woman is at fault.)
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 9:57 am
AMEN. She’s not the issue because she didn’t make vows with the LW. Tramp/whore/homewrecker – all these words need to be banished from the dictionary because they are ONLY used to describe women and it infuriates me. Somehow women are the only ones ever blamed in these situations.
Christy September 25, 2012, 10:00 am
Kate B. September 25, 2012, 4:44 pm
Those words are completely appropriate when directed at the right person. There are a whole selection of words used to describe men who do the same thing and they are appropriate also.
katie September 25, 2012, 9:58 am
i think the issue is that if the wife gets bad at the husband, she has to admit that he is at fault, and by extension, their relationship and her are also at fault. blaming the other woman is easy-peasy…
Lindsay September 25, 2012, 10:03 am
I think they should BOTH be blamed. The husband, for sure, should put a stop to this. But it’s extremely, extremely rude and inappropriate to flirt with a married man in that way.
theattack September 25, 2012, 10:37 am
Agreed. The husband is 90% the issue here, but the LW has to do something about Ramona too. If she gets her husband to start acting right, Ramona will _probably_ stop flirting, but she needs to be confronted too because, even if she’s not at fault for this, she’s still a problem.
Kate B. September 25, 2012, 4:42 pm
Totally agree. Classy women do not chase other women’s husbands.
ktfran September 25, 2012, 10:08 am
Put me in the agree with Christy camp!
SweetPeaG September 25, 2012, 12:18 pm
I do agree that those words just plain suck and I do not really use them.
However, BOTH husband and Ramona deserve a little blame here. Ramona seems to have broken the sisterhood when she decided it was okay to 1) Act sexually inappropriate with a man in a monogamous marriage and 2) Demean her fellow “sister” by coming into her home telling her she needed to “spice up her marriage”. What the hell is that? I may not call her a tramp, but I might call her a crappy person.
Don’t get me wrong… hubby is the douche canoe that deserves the most blame here. But, Ramona is no sister I’d want.
Muffy September 25, 2012, 12:00 pm
Ramona is behaving inappropriately and she knows it. I have read so many letters on here where the commenters also get mad at the other woman and now we’re saying that Ramona owes her neighbour nothing? The LW has every reason to be pissed off at both of them. And yes, Ramona is acting like a tramp. A desperate for attention tramp.
ktfran September 25, 2012, 12:26 pm
Actually, I’m in the husband or boyfriend or fiance is a complete ass hole or there is something seriously wrong with your marriage camp. I think it’s unproductive to go around and blame the other woman and call her names for a failed marriage. Maybe she is a tramp, but that’s besides the point. The fact is, there are all kinds of people out there. You can’t control their actions. You can only control your own. And hopefully you find a person who respects you. Who isn’t a complete asshole. And who talks to you if there are problems. And likewise if you have issues.
ele4phant September 25, 2012, 12:46 pm
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Ramona’s behavior is above reproach. I think everyone could agree, you are kind of a shady person if you openly and blatanly hit on someone else’s partner, particularly in front of your own husband.
However, she’s the minor issue here. The husband’s willingness to recieve her flirtations (maybe even encourage them) is the bigger problem. HE’S the one who made a committment to the LW and their marriage, not Ramona. If he was behaving approporiately, Ramona’s behavior would be a nuisance, nothing more. If he were respecting his marriage, then Ramona’s behavior would be perplexing, eye roll inducing, annoying, but not threatening.
Also, to me personally, I don’t like gender specific dergatory terms. If someone is being an asshole, just call them an asshole.
Muffy September 25, 2012, 12:58 pm
ok she’s an asshole. and he’s an asshole. They are both assholes. The words used make no difference to me. I was just pointing out that what she was doing was also bad not just the husband. She’s not above reproach just because she owes the letter writer nothing. When did we start to think that if you didn’t make a vow to be faithful and kind to someone then it’s ok to be a complete asshole.
I’m sorry if my choice of the word tramp offended anyone. I find it weird to call a woman an asshole you know? Same applies to calling a guy a bitch. But either way she is not acting like a nice person
ele4phant September 25, 2012, 1:04 pm
“When did we start to think that if you didn’t make a vow to be faithful and kind to someone then it’s ok to be a complete asshole.”
We don’t. Nobody’s saying that Ramona should be excused. Just that, the LW’s effort should be focused on the person she’s made a committment to, the person who is being disrespectful to that relationship.
I don’t think anyone is saying that the LW should go chew out the husband and then become besties with Ramona. She’s a jerk, and if I were the LW, I’d pretty much ignore her. No invites to neighborhood cookouts at my house.
But, to reiterate, the main problem, in terms of damage to the relationship, is the actions (or I guess, lack of action in shutting down Ramona’s advances) of the husband. So, to finger point at Ramona doesn’t make sense, nor will it address whatever is compelling the husband to indulge Ramona.
painted_lady September 25, 2012, 4:18 pm
YES YES YES. The thing is, someone I barely know treats me like shit? Sucks, but you move on, you know? You decide, “Hey, I don’t want to be friends with that person.” You weren’t really friends in the first place, so…life doesn’t really change.
If someone I’ve made a lifetime commitment to acts like an asshole, then that affects me far, far more. I now have to make a massive adjustment somewhere, either in what I will accept from a partner or in how I proceed with the rest of my life (in other words, without that person). Shit like that has much further-reaching consequences than just, “Hey, I’m really pissed at you.”
Christy September 25, 2012, 2:00 pm
The reason I don’t like gender-specific derogatory terms is because then the attack becomes gendered in nature. Calling a woman a bitch or a tramp is a very different thing than calling a man a bitch or a tramp. Part of the insult in calling a man a bitch is ascribing to him feminine characteristics, which are inherently unflattering. (Note: I’m not saying that feminine characteristics are inherently unflattering, only that a connotation of female is inherently unflattering in this method of insult.)
Don’t you feel like it’s different calling someone an asshole vs calling someone a bitch? I feel like they have different meanings. Same with a tramp–I feel like that is deliberately slut-shaming. Maybe my reading is unique.
ele4phant September 25, 2012, 2:53 pm
I agree, when you start flinging around insults that are gender-specific, it is becomes more about insulting the individual (who may or may not be deserving) and implicitly insults an entire gender.
If you call a woman a tramp, you’re not just saying that *this one individual* is acting in a way that is sexually inapproporiate, but also that *women and women alone* have the ability to act in a way that is deserving of heightened scorn.
And like you said, if men are insulted with gender-specific insults, the insult is not just a dig at them personally, but is insulting them as being “womanly”, which God knows, can’t be a good thing.
If *an individual* is behaving in a way that deserves to be described unfavorably, use a term that *targets them as an individual*, not one loaded with digs at one gender or another.
I guess that would rule out the use of dick, to be fair.
theattack September 25, 2012, 3:57 pm
Can I request some non-gender specific insults please? Because I agree with you, but I think I’m gonna need some more insults.
Where’s lemongrass when we need her to make another list of curse words? (Just kidding, Wendy! Sort of…)
ele4phant September 25, 2012, 4:03 pm
I kind of have a clean mouth, so maybe I’m not the best person to ask. Asshole is pretty much my go-to, and I don’t have any words for people who are sexually liberal, because I don’t think that’s a bad thing – so long as its aimed at people who are open and able to accept them.
If someone is making passes at someone who’s not open or willing to accepting them, its not really about the sex its- about them being, well, a jerk and violating someone’s boundaries.
Anybody else have any suggestions?
kerrycontrary September 25, 2012, 4:25 pm
I just call everyone a doodiehead….but I hate name calling in general because I don’t think it accurately describes people. The worst thing I’ve called someone in anger is “a piece of shit” which can be applied to both genders. Win!
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 4:42 pm
I’m a fan of dirtbag. Or if I want to be foul I use it’s granddaddy shitsack. Mostly if I really want to be insulting I use the situation at hand? Ramona would be an underdressed, ill-mannered, disrespectful wino. The husband would be a weak-willed, disingenuous, disrespectful schemer. None of the words are super offensive on their own but taken all together it’s pretty insulting.
lemongrass September 25, 2012, 5:55 pm
I won’t do 100 for Wendy’s sake but I will do a few 😉
Lickspittle, Smellfungus, Snollygoster, Ninnyhammer, Mumpsimus, Pettifogger, Mooncalf
*Bonus family favourite: freaker.
katie September 25, 2012, 12:51 pm
WKTFS & WES. fo sho.
sarolabelle September 25, 2012, 9:52 am
I have to say that some men really are stupid. They really are. They are dumb and naive and they walk around like “whaaaat?” all the time. Some are super shy and hardly say anything to anyone to avoid confrontation. I think the LW husband is like this. I think he is a simple man who hardly talks to anyone and so here is this woman talking to him without him having to try. He might be nervous when he talks to her like he is with everyone he talks to. He is shy and doesn’t want to tell her to leave. He’s passive, he lets things happen to him.
That is just who HE is perhaps. I don’t see him changing. I don’t know what the best solution for this situation is….but I guess WWS!
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 10:25 am
And some men have a vested interest in giving this impression so the can continue with their crappy behavior without reproach.
lemongrass September 25, 2012, 10:46 am
I doubt it. My husband is pretty passive. We joke that he would never cheat on me because he can’t talk to women. He also can’t say no when people ask him to do favours. But if some woman was kissing him on the cheek and her husband told him to “give it to her nice and slow” he would back the fuck up. You’d have to have an IQ of 63 not to see what was going on.
Skyblossom September 25, 2012, 10:58 am
If he was actually this shy and passive he could just avoid being in the garage at night. That would eliminate the situation. Also, if he saw her heading his direction during the day he could turn and go into the house. He doesn’t choose to do those things. He chooses to be there in the garage waiting for her. He chooses to be with her. He chooses to keep making himself available.
Fabelle September 25, 2012, 11:32 am
Yeah, this. As someone who IS passive at times & kind of avoidant, I’d just NOT go into the garage late at night and/or shut the garage door. I’m picturing this guy in there with all the lights on, door wide open, shirtless, pretending to tinker around every night until this lady wanders over in her “lingerie sleeper” with some wine.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 11:14 am
She described him as a typical guy, not some dopey Lenny type petting rabbits in the garage and grinning foolishly at an alcoholic’s advances. He is an active participant in an inappropriate relationship. Even the MOST passive person would be uncomfortable with this shit.
SweetPeaG September 25, 2012, 12:23 pm
“not some dopey Lenny type petting rabbits in the garage and grinning foolishly at an alcoholic’s advances.”
That description was awesome 🙂
SweetPeaG September 25, 2012, 12:39 pm
Is it wrong that I am totally picture Ray Ramano on “Everybody Loves Raymond”? He’s just always wandering around doing stupid things, completely clueless. And his wife is always the bad guy or the “bitch” telling Ray he can’t be a total moron. I can picture this whole thing an episode where Ray has no idea that he is being hit on by sexy neighbor lady. Everyone laughs at his dumb ass and they make up in the end.
But, no… that’s a sitcom. A terrible sitcom. I hate to believe that husbands are THIS stupid. They’re not. Thank the good Lord that Ray Ramano is not your average guy because he’s. just. awful.
So, I don’t not buy the excuse that LW’s hubby is just too darn clueless to get it. I won’t good-naturedly shake my head and say “Ohhh, you know men!”. He’s not a dummy. He knows he is being flirted with and he likes it. He has the power to stop it… and should if he values his wife.
SweetPeaG September 25, 2012, 12:42 pm
Lots of typos here… sorry.
Christy September 25, 2012, 9:59 am
Oh can I just mention this line: “She bends over a lot to, I assume, show off her cleavage/ and or behind since they are typically pointed in his direction.”
What else is going to be pointed in his direction?! If it’s not her front or her back, what else is it going to be? Her side? OF COURSE her front or back is going to be pointed at her, that’s just mathematically probable.
theattack September 25, 2012, 10:43 am
I don’t think this is weird. I have two types of bend-overs. One where I bend at my knees and kind of squat down to pick something up modestly, and one where I bend over and push my butt out prominently. You can definitely bend over without it being sexual, but it doesn’t sound like Ramona’s interested in that.
Skyblossom September 25, 2012, 11:00 am
Also, when I’m chatting with my neighbors I don’t find myself needing to bend over at all.
Christy September 25, 2012, 11:15 am
Alright, fair responses. I was already peeved at this LW, so it just rubbed me wrong. Like I totally agree about bending over, it was more just the odds that you’re facing someone when you’re interacting with them.
Lindsay September 25, 2012, 9:59 am
This creeps me out. Maybe the husband is polite, but my first thought would be that he’s enjoying the attention. You’d have to be really passive — timid and extremely shy, even — to not think you can just walk away after another woman kisses and hugs you once before she does it again. If the husband really hated confrontation that much, shouldn’t he be worried about offending his wife?
lemongrass September 25, 2012, 10:50 am
I agree with you that he’s enjoying the attention. My husband hates confrontation though, but not with his wife. You have to be able to confront issues when they come up in marriage or else it isn’t going to work so a passive person generally gets over that when they are in a serious relationship.
Lindsay September 25, 2012, 1:07 pm
Yeah. It’s much easier to “confront” someone that you’re close to, but like you said, it’s one of those things that you have to learn to do.
j2 September 25, 2012, 10:00 am
Some women can flirt some men into confusion; that is what this sounds like.
More than one has explained it to me as almost a drug rush. Marilyn Monroe in “Some Like It Hot” was an arch-type example, per them. Challenging the other woman is not likely to work; it is likely a basic trait. (“The Force runs deep in this one.”)
LW’s husband will encounter others. My advice is for LW to buttress him, not attack either him or the other woman. “Of course, she comes onto you, dear, you’re a handsome/good/sexy/whatever man … but you are MINE!” Then, convince him ….
Christy September 25, 2012, 10:02 am
Does anyone agree with this? I’m just trying to gauge responses. This seems like pure and utter bullshit to me.
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 10:08 am
Some women can flirt some men into confusion? Is there some joke in there I’m not getting?
j2 September 25, 2012, 10:19 am
I have witnessed it and asked the men (purely platonic friends) immediately afterward. That is what more than one told me, and they had no reason to dissemble.
Even my mathy friend reported he was not immune to this one woman at close range, and he was clearly repelled by her otherwise.
Desiree September 25, 2012, 10:11 am
I see two sides to it. I have known women who do go out of their way to be involved with men who were socially ‘off-limits’ (married, etc.) and it all seemed like an ego-boosting game to them. And I personally find that more than a little disturbing, and I would not want to be friends with a woman who behaved that way. Having said that, my fiance is no idiot. If something is happened between him and another woman, it would be HIS fault. He and I have had conversations about him establishing boundaries with people of the opposite sex (not that it has been a problem), because it is his job to do so. If he cheated, I would not be a big fan of the other woman, but my fiance would be the one finding all his stuff on the street with the note “See ya!”
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 10:27 am
I’m with you, Christy. “Men can’t possibly be held responsible for their actions, their penises made them do it! They can’t help it, poor things. The only way to keep your man is by stroking his ego until his esteem comes back to your in a frothy explosion of love.” Puke.
j2 September 25, 2012, 11:03 am
The line I take is that being affected may be unavoidable (hard-wired), but that acting upon it is.
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 11:08 am
I believe you when you say that’s what you meant, but when I read it it sounded a lot more like you were saying that she should excuse him from all responsibility in allowing this to continue and then use sex and flattery in order to manipulate him into doing what he’s told.
j2 September 25, 2012, 11:24 am
If the witch is a next door neighbor, she is not entirely avoidable and just going negative could make LW look less attractive by comparison. Did not LW marry her husband because she thought him desireable/handsome/sexy/whatever? Why not tell him?
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 11:50 am
I could get behind that if what you were saying was just the everyone needs to tell the person they are married to that they value them as a partner and find them sexy. You’re not, though, are you? You’re saying that the husband is too dumb to notice he’s being seduced or is at least held hostage to his hormones to the extent that he is helpless to resist the “witch” and that the LW needs to respond to this by having stronger vagina powers.
I married my husband because I thought he was desirable/handsome/sexy/smart/kind/funny but also because I trust him to be faithful and to never put me in a position where I feel like I’m competing for his affection with another woman. I know he is with me because he chooses to be and is faithful because he values me, not because I’m the one most willing to put out until he can score a hotter, sluttier chick.
By making it seem like if the LW can only fuck him hard enough then the husband will magically begin drawing reasonable boundaries with Ramona it also seems like the husband has no thoughts of his own. Give him a little more credit for being a thinking human.
JK September 25, 2012, 11:53 am
I <3 you.
rachel September 25, 2012, 11:54 am
Well said..and lol at “stronger vagina powers”
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 12:11 pm
With great power comes great responsibility?
…pun totally intended.
j2 September 25, 2012, 12:28 pm
What I thought I said was in-between what you said I did not say and what you said I said.
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 12:39 pm
Right not I can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 12:39 pm
Nah, you totally said that shit, just iseeshiny said it better. You can’t gaslight us when your comments are right here before our eyes! We are not the LW, you know!
j2 September 25, 2012, 1:01 pm
As you will.
I did not say “being seduced” nor “held hostage to his hormones” nor “helpless to resist.”
I said, “Some women can flirt some men into confusion” and that men I asked reported it as almost a “drug rush” feeling that I think may be hard-wired.
Additionally, I believe positive reinforcement is better than going hard negative, and that’s where most of the comments seem to be advocating.
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 1:07 pm
Oh, you didn’t say purple, you said violet. My mistake.
ktfran September 25, 2012, 1:23 pm
I don’t think anyone is telling her to go off on him. Or punish him. I think people are telling her she needs to have a conversation with the husband. Not the half naked neighbor lady.
katie September 25, 2012, 12:44 pm
oh this is wonderful. just wonderful…
Amanda September 25, 2012, 10:59 am
“Some women can flirt some men into confusion.” I’m sorry, but no adult is this stupid.
j2 September 25, 2012, 11:10 am
Sadly, history is replete with examples.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 11:20 am
That statement cannot be substantiated in any way. And it’s sexist garbage against both MEN and WOMEN.
-10 points to you for your antiquated stereotypes.
j2 September 25, 2012, 11:45 am
I have witnessed it personally, dear TaraMonster.
You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your own opinion of the validity/applicability of historical examples, no matter how many.
ktfran September 25, 2012, 11:47 am
You are cracking me up today.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 12:10 pm
This letter is just such excellent material!
the_optimist September 25, 2012, 10:44 am
I have to disagree. I’m not convinced that the husband is as clueless as he claims to be. She’d be rewarding bad behavior by trying to sweet-talk her husband away from this woman. She needs to stand up for herself, not treat him like some kind of Adonis.
MiMi September 25, 2012, 10:12 am
Well I’m quite sure there is tinkering going on in that garage…
What I’m not sure about is what neighborly relationship is it exactly that you are concerned about preserving? Start a war, I say. Run her off! When her tipsy self comes over at night, go ring her doorbell and ask her husband to come collect her. Rinse and repeat. And if it’s early enough in the morning, pick up the newspaper on your way back in and use it to whack your husband upside the head.
JK September 25, 2012, 11:23 am
I can´t stop laughing at your 1st line. Awesome.
bagge72 September 25, 2012, 10:25 am
Nothing much to add, everyone added on nicely to Wendy’s 100% accurate advice! I would like to know how many things your husband has to work on in his garage though, if he is there all of the time, instead of in the house with you. It definitely seems like he is trying to get a way from whatever is in the house, and when a drunk chick with no pants on, and bends over so you can see what she has to offer, and then rubs it all up on ya comes around when you are feeling like that, it is just a disaster waiting to happen. Oh and why weren’t you at this party, but your husband was? I mean clearly you new there was a party, because he was there so why even check on the noise? You were really just checking on him, and found what you thought was happening. So I guess I did have some stuff to add… sorry
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 10:33 am
Oh hey Mr. Married!
bagge72 September 25, 2012, 11:12 am
Hello! I feel much more Italian now that I’m wearing jewelry!
JK September 25, 2012, 11:26 am
You skank IWTTS!!! How dare you talk to a married guy? Don´t you know that guys can´t resist a woman talking to them, without making a fool of themselves??? 😉
bagge72 September 25, 2012, 12:10 pm
Yup it’s not my fault! I have now fallen in love with IWTTS beause she said hey to me, and came around with pictures of sunsets, and she know’s that really turns me on after being in Hawaii.
Lili September 25, 2012, 4:13 pm
Hey! (are we a threesome now?)
Budj September 25, 2012, 11:07 am
Lol – “I had no idea there was a party…so I sketchily walked on the trails behind the neighborhood to see what was going on and my husband was there…and…we never talk….so I just didn’t know he was there….and then I peered through the trees at the EXACT moment she was handing him a wine glass and kissing him…welll…maybe I lingered around for a while to wait for that to happen…but….”
bagge72 September 25, 2012, 11:19 am
Right! So she is going around trying to catching him doing stuff she already know’s he’s doing, but isn’t saying anything to him about it, because he is shy, and is only mad at her. She needs to kick them both in the pants area.
SixtyFour September 25, 2012, 10:38 am
LW, I’m sorry to break the news to you, but your husband wants to have an affair with this woman if he isn’t already. And it definitely sounds like he is at the least already having an emotional affair with her. There’s not much you can do to stop him from wanting her. Hell, there’s not much he can do to stop wanting her. But what he should do is realize that by allowing himself to be seduced, he’s hurting you and throwing away his marriage, and that this momentary high he feels when he’s around her would never ever be worth it in a million years if that meant losing you. So you need to make him see what is at stake here. Really sit him down and explain that you understand he may be attracted to ther women, but that you will not tolerate being made to feel disrepected and less than this woman. You are his number one priority and you should fell that way. And if he doens’t care about that, then you are out.
iwannatalktosampson September 25, 2012, 10:41 am
If you have a strong marriage – the ramona’s of the world are no threat to you. Work on why your husband likes the attention and find a solution. Whether he’s feeling neglected or he’s missing the spark or whatever. Work on you two and everything else will fall into line.
katie September 25, 2012, 11:45 am
THIS. exactly this.
people are going to be hitting on committed people until the end of time. sometimes it will be by accident, sometimes it will be malicious- it’ll be for any number of stupid or serious reasons… but the thing is, it shouldnt matter what the reason it. it shouldnt matter in the slightest! they are never going to go away, and you have to treat life like that. as so since you cannot control them, you control the one thing you can control, which is your own relationship and your own actions.
GatorGirl September 25, 2012, 12:24 pm
Totally agree. I do think the LW should clearly express how uncomfortable and unhappy the interactions with Romona are making her but if they (the LW and her husband) work on their relationship the problem should correct its self.
Bossy Italian Wife September 25, 2012, 10:41 am
You need to put the hammer down on your husband ASAP! People are going to act how they are going to act and his responsibility is to YOU. It’s much more effective for him to “politely” confront the neighbor than for you to—he could say, “Hey Ramona, you should really call before you come over” or “Gee Ramona, where’s your family? Maybe you should go love and kiss on them instead of me.”
There are any number of ways to go about it, but you shouldn’t have to be put in the middle of something that is clearly making you uncomfortable.
Talk to your husband seriously about this. Maybe beat her at her own game and give them both the shock of their lives!
*HmC* September 25, 2012, 10:47 am
“My husband is your “typical” male and doesn’t see this behavior and says that I am just seeing things. ”
I really loath statements like this. Not only is it generalizing about all males, but it’s insulting to the good ones AND gives the bad ones a convenient excuse to act like a jerk. If another woman is threatening your marriage, your husband should, at the very least, take your concerns seriously and attempt to ease your mind. Dismissing your feelings is never ok.
Also, neighbors don’t get a free pass to cross boundaries just because you want to keep the peace. Take it from me- I just had to confront my crazy neighbor because she was meddling with my cat too much, and I’m not confrontational. But it was empowering. If someone’s acting crazy, it’s THEIR fault that you have to confront them, not yours. This neighbor is the one contributing to the issue, not you.
LadyinPurpleNotRed September 25, 2012, 10:49 am
Speaking of your crazy neighbor…how have things been since you confronted her? Any more incidents?
*HmC* September 25, 2012, 10:59 am
Well, if she’s still taking him I haven’t caught her yet. He does go out for longer periods then he used to, but he could just be expanding his territory so it’s hard to say. Honestly I know she’s not afraid of me and feels she was justified so I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s still keeping him inside sometimes. If I catch her again I’ll confront again. Otherwise I sort of feel like my hands are tied…. it sucks.
But yeah it’s kind of a feud at this point. She’s super passive aggressive and nice to my roommate now but ignores me. And she’s been on the street for way longer so I’m sure she’s talked to the other neighbors about the incident and they all think I’m crazy. *sigh**
*HmC* September 25, 2012, 10:55 am
And for the record I don’t think the LW should confront Ramona… I think the husband needs to quit encouraging the behavior, and he should be the one to confront if it comes to that.
Amybelle September 25, 2012, 11:02 am
Ramona may be drunk and pants-less, but at least her kids aren’t in daycare, amirite?
(*sarcasm* if it’s not obvious)
Budj September 25, 2012, 11:19 am
Being a “shy-er” guy myself, if I was happily married, this behavior would be an annoyance to me that I would let slide if infrequent enough…like the neighbor just has a little too much to drink every so often and is one of those overly-affectionate drunks…not a big deal… The frequency this is happening though would just annoy me to the point of not caring if I pissed the neighbor off.
Putting myself in the situation of working in my garage on something and consistently having the lush across the street trying to flirt with me would feel pretty much like harrassment. I’m not interested – I have a happy family life – get the fuck away from me. I’m a fairly private person and my home is my shrine. Pending an invite I would prefer to be left alone. I’m not sure why your husband hasn’t put this fire out unless he is enjoying the attention which then you need to ask why the attention is desirable to him. Is there anything you are doing or more importantly NOT doing to make him seek that? And if not – is he a pushover? Is that in his personality? Could he just be putting up with this because he is avoiding a more awkward situation? If that is the case you need to let him know it is disrespectful to you as Wendy suggested….
Worstcase scenario he is an opportunist cheater and is stringing her along waiting for the right moment to “get away with it”, but until you have exhausted other options I wouldn’t go there yet.
the_optimist September 25, 2012, 10:27 am
Wait… ok, I totally agree that this is a discussion that needs to happen between husband and wife but…
…collars ripped out of t-shirts? How does that even look? None of my t-shirts ever had collars 🙁
theattack September 25, 2012, 10:46 am
Think the 80s fame look. By collar, I think it means the thick part around the neck. Not a regular collar.
Christy September 25, 2012, 10:58 am
I hate this look. I hate it. Wear the damn tshirt.
Sorry, I’m full of all the feels today.
the_optimist September 25, 2012, 10:51 am
lemongrass September 25, 2012, 11:45 am
Does anyone else think “Ramona Quimby” when they read the name Ramona?
JK September 25, 2012, 11:46 am
OMG I LOVED those books!!!!
rachel September 25, 2012, 11:47 am
Yep. Can’t not think it.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 12:16 pm
That Ramona always WAS a trouble maker. FIGURES.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 10:47 am
Am I the only one who thought that letter was a bad Nora Roberts novel turned even worse Lifetime movie?
As I walked along the bridle path, the moon clear and crisp over head, a familiar tinkling laugh drifted over from the Johnson’s yard. I peered through the slats in the fence to see what Ramona was up to this time. And there she stood in a lavender negligee. A lavender negligee outside of her bedroom! Just who was she trying to impress?! In one hand she held her customary glass of wine, while her other hand was pressed against the chest of a tall, dark-haired man. Ramona leaned in and kissed him on the cheek, and as the dark-haired man turned his head to accept it, his face was illuminated by the moonlight- it was Henry. My stomach dropped. I stepped away from the fence, my heart hammering in my chest, and headed back to the house. Ramona… I seethed. How dare she?!
ktfran September 25, 2012, 10:54 am
THIS is AWESOME!
I have no idea why I feel the need to use all caps today, but I do.
Fabelle September 25, 2012, 10:55 am
Oh my god, this is too fantastic.
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 11:16 am
I am not a loller, but I totally just lol’d.
Eljay September 25, 2012, 11:24 am
Sarah September 25, 2012, 12:11 pm
OMG PLEASE WRITE THIS NOVEL.
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 1:38 pm
Maybe I should do it for NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month)!! You have to write a 50K word novel from scratch in one month. I basically stared at a blank screen for an hour yesterday attempting to come up with a new idea so I can develop the plot, characters, and outline and be ready to go on Nov 1.
I just don’t know if I can stomach an entire month of writing romance!
TaraMonster September 25, 2012, 11:23 am
Maybe I should sell out and write romance novels!
Ramona is my muse.
Anon September 25, 2012, 1:25 pm
I haven’t actually read Fifty Shades of Grey, but I’m sure this novel is much better.
Addie Pray September 25, 2012, 1:52 pm
You on fire!
Roxy_84 September 25, 2012, 3:47 pm
Hahaha…this is fantastic!
stilgar666 September 25, 2012, 11:56 am
WWS, and I want to move into the neighborhood.
Sarah September 25, 2012, 12:07 pm
Uhh…LW, if you had a neighbor guy who was hitting on you and kissing you and visiting you at night, would it be your husband’s job to talk to him? No. It would be yours. I have to agree with everybody else when I ask why are you removing any responsibility from your husband in this? Is he or is he not letting this woman KISS him and visit him alone at night?? I wouldn’t put the blame on drunk neighbor mom, because she’s just doing what she seems to be getting away with to your husband.
I don’t buy that whole thing about guys being in denial about women who flirt/are attracted to them. In fact I think I read a study once that said are MORE likely to think women are attracted to them, even when they really aren’t. So instead of excusing your husband’s lack of action in preventing this in a “Dudes are crazy dumb, amirite ladies?” way, how about you actually have expectations for your husband?
This women has physically crossed a huge line with your husband and he needs to put a stop to it. He needs to tell her to stop speaking to him privately and that they can only be acquaintances in a group setting. I hope he does make it awkward with her. When someone hits on another person’s partner it should be awkward. Even if he doesn’t believe he’s getting hit on (bullsh*t) or if he’s too polite to comment on it (that’s bullsh*t for “I like another woman thinking I’m sezy but since I’m not contributing I can enjoy it) he still has to respect that its crossing a line for you.
bittergaymark September 25, 2012, 12:12 pm
Eh, this whole letter sounds fake to me as it’s just over the top. (I agree, it does read like the pages of the shittiest of women’s novels… Bravo to TaraMonster for that flawless parody…) Moreover, parts of this epic latter don’t even make sense… “In the morning, my husband said that Ramona’s husband came over and told him to “give it to her nice and slow.” Obviously, he sees what’s going with his wife, too. Either that or he is threatened by any male…”
Um, anybody that tells ANOTHER man to give it to his wife nice and slow is so NOT threatened by another male. The LW is so off-base here with this last statement it makes me question the veracity of this entire letter. I dunno, it just seems bogus.
That said — I do rather wonder what would be the reaction to this letter if the sexes were reversed. I mean, if some guy wrote in about how his wife was constantly being hit on by his drunken and often pants-less male neighbor, would everybody’s go to reaction be to blame the wife and allege that THEY were having an affair? Um, no. I think not. Wouldn’t we get a lot of “You can’t blame your wife for somebody else’s bad and wildly inappropriate behavior… I mean, come on. You know it to be true.
iseeshiny September 25, 2012, 12:37 pm
I wish it were fake, but I’m inclined to think it’s legit. So depressing how people delude themselves into seeing only what they want to see. It’s a lot easier to blame the whore than to blame your spouse. If it’s your spouse at fault you might have to face the fact that you’re married to a dirtbag, which, at that point you either have to get a divorce or resign yourself to the fact.
The gender swap exercise is fun to do for a lot of the other letters we get about what is acceptable behavior, but I don’t know if it applies as much here? Because I think the first reaction would probably be to assume that the drunken neighbor guy was a dangerous predator. Which, well, I think the neighbor lady is a predator too, but one the husband is most likely at less physical risk from, because of statistics and sexual dimorphism. But I agree that both Ramona and the husband are in the wrong here.
ele4phant September 25, 2012, 12:50 pm
If the wife in the reversed gender-situation hadn’t drawn a bright line in the sand about how unwelcome drunk male neighbor’s attentions were, or seemed to even be bemused or welcome his attentions (as the LW’s husband seems to) yeah, I think we’d have the same reaction.
the_optimist September 25, 2012, 12:43 pm
In your role-reversed scenario, if the wife were entertaining this pants-less lush of a neighbor, yeah, I think we would still blame her. It’d be different, sure, if in the case of this letter the husband were rebuffing this woman’s advances, but he isn’t doing anything to stop it.
wendykh December 14, 2012, 6:18 pm
I read it as neighbour husband saying it dripping with contempt and sarcasm. A friend of mine once told some guy hitting on his wife at a party “I got some condoms if you need ’em.” Some folks laughed… but not the ones who saw bullets coming from his eyes!
Sasa September 25, 2012, 12:23 pm
“Something’s up with him and my guess is that whatever might be going on between him and Ramona probably starts with whatever is up between the two of you. Maybe he feels like he isn’t getting enough attention from you. Men are pretty simple. They like affection, attention, and eye candy. If they aren’t getting that from their partners, then someone who is offering it up for free all the time is going to be appealing to them.” I disagree with this part of Wendy’s advice. What’s going on between LW’s husband and another woman does not necessarily have much to do with their marriage. Sure, it doesn’t sound like their relationship is great since they apparantly fail to adequately communicate about all this. But the idea that you can stop your husband from cheating by giving him attention is misguided IMO. There are people who get tons of attention from their SO and still cheat. Also, I don’t think men are simple. At any rate, they are not simpler than women in my experience. Believing that you can do a few simple things to keep any man happy in relationship is dangerous.
katie September 25, 2012, 12:40 pm
you cant get a husband to stop cheating by giving him attention, but you can get him not to cheat by having a good marriage from the start.
Sasa September 25, 2012, 2:25 pm
In the end you can’t control whether your spouse will cheat on you or not. You simply don’t have that degree of control over someone else’s decisions and even the person you know best and trust the most can sometimes do surprising things. Cheating sometimes also happens in good marriages (unless you simply define “good marriage = no cheating”, of course). But you hear less about it because even the “cheated-on” partners won’t necessarily tell you that it happened in their marriage, sometimes to protect themselves from judgment. This makes me think of the “Dear Sugar” column “A bit of sully in your sweet” – it’s great.
kerrycontrary September 25, 2012, 3:45 pm
But I think it takes two to have a good marriage, and that can’t be all on the woman. She can be a great wife, career woman, mother, and homemaker but a man can still cheat.
j.walker September 25, 2012, 12:57 pm
Usually the LW wants to get a certain answer and will tailor the letter to spin the situation in a certain direction.. But even with all the “typical guy,” “night owl,” “loves to tinker in the garage at night [instead of tinkering with his wife]” excuses EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD can see that the dude is at best enjoying and perpetuating the attention and at worst, having some type if affair. If the LW herself doesn’t see what’s going on here I can hardly imagine any of these comments will change her mind.
LW, if you get this far down the thread, I’m sorry, your husband is cheating on you, at the very least emotionally. And he is definitely ripping on your shitty sex life..
Caris September 25, 2012, 1:17 pm
A partner that respects you would never get himself/herself into this situation.
Some time ago, I went to a bookstore with my bf to look at books. He wanted to buy recipe books to learn how to cook. So he finally chose some books and went to pay for them while I waited for him somewhere else in the store. Apparently the cashier started flirting with him and asked him if he liked cooking or something like that. He realized (or thought) she was being flirty so he answered that he was buying those books to cook for his gf to shut her up.
My point is, your husband is clearly disrespecting you and you should have a talk, a very serious talk with him about respect and boundaries in your relationship. And like other have pointed you should be angry at your husband for letting her act like this with him. He should be more concerned about making you upset than making your neighbor upset.
Diablo September 25, 2012, 1:26 pm
I’m kinda with BGM on this one – there are a few things that don’t ring true about this, especially “give it to her nice and slow.” Even if they have an open relationship, you are taking a very big chance unless you’ve got some other likely interaction to go on. So what else has happened that she doesn’t know about? Anyway, I’ll assume this is real for the rest of my comment.
From the married straight guy perspective, assuming this is for real, Wendy’s best point is that the neighbour slut owes the LW nothing. She might be inappropriate, but the LW’s husband is the one who made a promise. It’s never the other woman (or man’s) fault. Look to the person who promised to be true to you; look at their behaviour.
I’d point out that as a “typical” guy, I tend to be intensely aware of any attention given to me by women who are not my wife. Because I am male, this type of attention equals peril that i wish to avoid. Each time anyone has gotten anything like close to me, apart from our closest friends who are just showing love not being sexy, I discuss it with her, like “So and so was pretty drunk tonight, she got pretty close when she said good night.” I never want to be perceived as participating in anything that would give my wife pause, because she is my best friend and I owe her everything and would lose everything I value. Usually, it’s nothing, just things drunk people sometimes do, but then again, they tend to happen only once, not repeatedly.
My point is, if your husband is regularly being kissed and touched by someone else, he knows he’s on the thin edge of the razor. He’s pretending not to think anything of it, but he knows. If he’s letting it happen at all, that counts as his behaviour, and he knows it. If he doesn’t, he shouldn’t be married at all. He needs to smarten up or lose you. If there are issues between you two that make him desire this attention, it’s still his responsibility to deal with them and with you directly, not accept inappropriate contact from the neighbour. No grey area here. You two may need to talk about YOUR issues, but that excuses nothing.
Men are what they are in their nature. Women should realize this and not expect us to change our nature. Male sexuality is based on visual stimuli and is basically predatory. We see and then seek what we desire, and that desire is based on seeing. Sorry, ladies, but them’s the facts. But you CAN hold us accountable for our behaviour. I can’t help what I see and my internal reaction to it. That’s just nature. A man who says he never looks at other women is almost certainly lying. But i can help what i seek and what i permit, because that is my choice, and that’s the choice you make when you marry someone. No wimping out, which is what cheaters are doing!
SixtyFour September 26, 2012, 11:49 am
Love, Love, Love this explanation! LW and Husband should sit down and read this together.
2_J September 25, 2012, 1:26 pm
LW, WWS, and…I really think your husband either will or already has slept with this woman , plain simple period.
tbrucemom September 25, 2012, 1:39 pm
My BF has a close female friend that he’s never dated or anything and is actually the widow of a friend of his. I’ve become friends with her too over the years. Whenever she sees my BF she kisses him on the cheek. It doesn’t really bother me as long as it’s on the cheek. If it was on the mouth I’d be like “hell no”. My point is this is an old friend who I’m also friends with and I’d prefer she didn’t do it but I’m not going to make a big deal out of it. If I was in the LW’s situation I’d be livid and definitely wouldn’t be looking thru slats and walking away! Her husband is at a minimum stroking his ego very inappropriately and worse is having an emotional affair or working up to a physical one.
Kelly September 25, 2012, 1:53 pm
I had a neighbor exactly like this! Came outside one time during a get together and she was sitting in my husbands lap, I made her get up. Thankfully, they moved, but she happened to drop by the day before my husband was suppose to go to Korea for a year. She was drunk and we couldn’t get rid of her. At one point she suggested we go upstairs for a threesome *shudder*. What I did was take her home since she was to drunk to drive. I than called her husband, a long distance trucker, and told him what his wife was up to. He ended up quitting his job to stay home to babysit his wife
wendykh December 14, 2012, 6:21 pm
your husband was probably boinking her behind your back you realize
Dennis Hong September 25, 2012, 1:32 pm
That is a seriously disturbing stock photo to go with that letter, Wendy.
Thanks for the nauseating visuals. :-p
bittergaymark September 25, 2012, 2:00 pm
Eh, everybody ages. I’m just amazed that a stock photo is of somebody famous…
Wendy September 25, 2012, 2:38 pm
I thought it was funny!
Dennis Hong September 25, 2012, 2:41 pm
In an evil sort of way, yes. 😉
landygirl September 25, 2012, 6:54 pm
It was funny.
ele4phant September 25, 2012, 8:49 pm
I think she looks like a good time.
HmC September 25, 2012, 10:53 pm
Dude, Dr. Ruth IS a good time! She is the epitome of a good time.
Eljay September 25, 2012, 2:51 pm
Hey LW, guess what? My husband was this “typical guy” in that his ex (and several co-workers) were throwing themselves at him on a regular basis. He told me all the time, “oh it’s nothing, we’re just friends,” “so what I text her all hours of the day and night, we’re just friends,” and my personal favorite – “just because she sent me flowers and candy on valentine’s day means nothing, we’re just friends.” Well surprise, surprise, after an entire year of this, he came home one night with his wedding ring in his pocket and said “I don’t want to be married anymore.” He was leaving me for her. I didn’t buy for a second that all along they were “just friends,” but a combination of denial, low self-esteem and low self-worth kept me from demanding better from him. Please don’t buy this crap for a second, they’re not just friends, he’s not just being polite, and she’s not just being friendly. Trust me when I say, he knows exactly what he’s doing, what she is doing and the path they’re on to accomplishing it.
E September 25, 2012, 4:42 pm
LW, the main issue is your husband, as everyone has pointed out. Some men and women are just clueless. However, when you add in Ramona’s husband’s quip, the late night garage visits, the 50 Shades of Grey, etc…there is just no way that your husband doesn’t recognize what is going on. He ENJOYS the flirting and the attention. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ramona and her hubby have an open marriage.
What LW needs to do is sit his ass down and ask him how he would feel if the LW interacted with a male neighbor the way he interacts with Ramona. Then, LW needs to tell her husband he is flat out being disrespectful. Ramona isn’t hypnotizing the husband…she doesn’t have a magical vagina. The husband should have enough of a spine to stand up to her.
WoW September 26, 2012, 12:14 am
LW, I absolutely feel for you! From the point of view of someone whose (now ex) husband acted in much the same way with a neighbour, I completely agree with Wendy. Everything everyone has said here about it being the responsibility of your husband to tend to your own relationship and marriage is absolutely right.
My story: husband agreed to babysit the neighbour’s kids while she and I were at the same function (and her husband was overseas). He came home from work, and immediately went to pack up his stuff to head over to her place. More than an hour ahead of necessary! I was already cooking his dinner and objected. So he gets on the phone to her, and I could tell from what he was saying that she was probably cooking dinner for him. I asked him directly when he finished the call – he said he wasn’t eating there. So immediately after OUR dinner he heads off, leaving me to look after my children so the neighbour could leave on time. He left something behind though and asked me to bring it over, so I did, and guess what? There he was, eating another dinner… The neighbour (who was a close-ish friend at the time) wouldn’t talk to me at the function, and left early. When I got home my husband was still out, and was for at least another 2 hours after. The next day when I asked him about it, he was defensive and made me out to be the crazy person for even bringing it up (although he’d regularly call into the neighbour’s on his way home from work, and I’d be calling him up to get home for dinner). I promptly booked us into couple’s counselling, however he would not engage with it so it was abandoned. A few months later I was overseas for 3 weeks, and while I was away my children let slip that the same neighbour, who I had not talked to in all that time, was over at our house cleaning out their wardrobes, my kitchen cupboards, cleaning my oven etc. When I asked my husband about it, he told me to ‘Shut the f— up’. So I did, and vowed to myself to get out of the relationship asap. I’ve now been separated for almost a year, and it was the best thing I ever did.
Our relationship was not great as my husband would not communicate (with me!) despite many and varied attempts, but it was something that developed over time. I was very hurt that he would not make an effort to try to work things out, especially after 20 years of marriage. I’ve never spoken to the neighbour again. Fortunately they’ve moved – some other poor woman’s problem now!
LW, if you value you relationship, don’t let this go any further. Your husband is an adult and needs to start acting responsibly and with some sensitivity to your feelings. As for the neighbour? Yeah she should know better too. But it’s hubby who’s to blame in this one. xx
frieda December 5, 2013, 3:49 pm
nothing worry about cause im gonna get ramona husband for you