It’s time again for Shortcuts. For every question, I’ll give my advice in just a few sentences, because sometimes the answer to a person’s question is so obvious and the need to hear it so great, being as clear and frank as possible is simply the best way to go.
This isn’t the past you’re talking about; this is the present. Your “boyfriend” is going to be the father of two babies that he conceived with two different women while cheating on you. Yes, this is a big deal and you should MOA before you, too, find yourself the mother of a baby whose father can’t afford to pay child support because he’s already supporting two other children with two different baby mamas.
He never apologized or anything so two days after he called I forwarded his message and I said: “I’m sending you back your message for you to realize how bad you sound.” He never replied and now I know he is in his parents’ house in Utah with his girlfriend celebrating Christmas and it hurts a little.
Let me know what you think. — Call Me Maybe
I think you need to delete him from Facebook, delete his phone number from your phone, block any further communication from him and get on with your life. Your breakup was two years ago, he’s with someone else and he doesn’t want you or your cat back no matter what some drunken, late-night message might lead you to believe. Plus, he has rats.
Uh, yeah, it’s ok to rather be with someone who loves you for you and doesn’t make you feel shitty about yourself. If fact, that’s actually the way it should be. Dump this loser and avoid manipulative jerks like this one in the future.
You can follow me on Facebook here and sign up for my weekly newsletter here.
If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at email@example.com.
artsygirl January 4, 2013, 9:07 am
Yay for train wreck Fridays. All three LWs do as Wendy says! Also, LW 2 – reading WAY too much into a drunk message from an ex.
MELH January 4, 2013, 5:32 pm
Agreed. What part of your ex drunkenly meowing into your phone made you think he wanted you back or something?
katie January 4, 2013, 9:26 am
why? WHY? W-H-Y????????????
LuckySeven January 4, 2013, 9:26 am
I was so excited for this! Please all three letter writers, WWS.
Also, LW1, I’m sorry for all that’s going on right now, but please, please do not have a baby until you are emotionally, financially, and relationship ready. Right now it sounds like you don’t have a definite place of your own to stay; your boyfriend has at least two children on the way; and he may have been cheating on you. There’s always other ways to fulfill to get that baby fix, such as spending time with a family member/ friend who has a baby or young child.
Here are the estimated costs of having a baby: http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-real-cost-of-raising-a-baby_1744454.bc
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 10:06 am
Great suggestion. Go babysit for someone.
LM January 4, 2013, 11:54 am
LW 1, go babysit for someone who doesn’t have the most well behaved child and is a down right brat and imagine yourself in those couple of hours everyday, all day. By yourself. With NO help.
LW 2, really? Get over it and MOA!
LW 3, you need to be with someone who loves you for you. Never take anything but the best and if your SO does make you feel like a queen when you are together, dump his sorry ass!
LM January 4, 2013, 11:56 am
Oh, and LW 1 – he cheated on you twice and got two different ladies pregnant. And you want to be with him and possibly have a baby with him? Are you serious? Tell this to yourself out loud and see if there is anything wrong with this. It’s NOT OKAY to be with a cheater!
bethany January 4, 2013, 9:31 am
This makes me so sad.
LADIES- AIM HIGHER. There is nothing wrong with having standards for a boyfriend, and everything wrong with NOT having standards for a boyfriend. If someone treats you like crap, cheats on your, or has another girlfriend, MOA! Being single can be a really fun, awesome time in your life. Please embrace it.
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 9:32 am
“I have wanted a child since I was 13.”
No. No. No. Please please pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee think long and hard before going and having a child (at a young age) with this man or any man. Why do you want a baby? How will you support the baby? Do you understand that your life as you know it ends? I’m going to take a jump here and say that you have some issues with your parents, having a child will not make you feel loved or replace anything that is currently missing in your life. PLEASE please rethink this mind set.
I hope we don’t see a letter from you in 6 months saying you’re pregnant and the babies father is mia and not supporting his other 2 kids…
kerrycontrary January 4, 2013, 9:56 am
Yeh this breaks my heart. There is no other time in your life like your teenage years and your early 20s. You will never get that time back. There are so many wonderful things awaiting you in your life, don’t make yourself grow up early by having a child.
Lindsay January 4, 2013, 11:34 am
Yeah, and the thing is, if you have a baby at 20 or 30, they’re still going to be a child for the same amount of time. It’s not like by waiting to get pregnant, you’re missing out on part of your child’s life.
ReadingIsFundamental January 4, 2013, 2:06 pm
This is all true, especially for this LW. There is however a flip side. The longer one waits to have a child, the older one is when that child is “out of the nest”. I know several people who had children at ages 18-22 who now are empty-nesters at 40 when they are still young and healthy enough to go out and have active adventures. I know some other people that waited until 35-40 and, in addition to the significantly higher frequency of birth defects in that age group, they’re also nearly 60 by the time those kids are out of the house.
Personally I find time in my 40s to be much more rewarding because I am more financially secure than I was in my 20s and I can do more and different kinds of things than I could 20 years ago.
Desiree January 4, 2013, 9:57 am
It could be the culture of her community. Certain communities encourage their girls to become pregnant at a young age. I see cases like hers a lot at the hospital in the city where I live. There have been studies about this phenomenon, because it is very cyclical and interferes with attempts to improve the education/life circumstances of the girls involved.
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 10:10 am
I 110% agree Desiree. It is cyclical and very much geographic and socioeconomically influenced. But she has a choice. She can chose to use birth controll or abstain and she can break herself from the cycle. I come from a culture/family background of teen mom’s. I made a conscious decision around 15 or so to not be a teen mom. And it worked! And the LW can chose to break out of the cycle too if she wants.
katie January 4, 2013, 10:14 am
i feel like those cultures wouldnt be the same as the ones who would “kick out” an 18 year old daughter and have a younger male who had two children with two mothers- although maybe the two are related and THATS why…
SallyS January 4, 2013, 11:37 am
Any chance she just meant “I’ve known since I was 13 that I wanted to be a mother someday?”
bethany January 4, 2013, 11:45 am
Sadly, probably not.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:27 pm
You must be new here 😉
Wendy (not Wendy) January 4, 2013, 9:42 am
These are heartbreaking letters today.
Wendy (not Wendy) January 4, 2013, 9:43 am
(But “Plus, he has rats” = winner.)
LK7889 January 4, 2013, 10:18 am
I read that line, and in my head, it sounded like the equivalent of someone saying “besides, he has crabs.”
Lo January 4, 2013, 9:43 am
I don’t know on the last one there may be more to this story. It could be coming from a genuine place like concern over a recent weight gain. And if that’s the case, a weight gain can sometimes be accompanied by a change of mood/loss of energy – things that seriously impact a relationship. He could be trying to motivate her to better herself – which isn’t a bad thing. Perhaps he could have been more tactful in his approach. But if he’s telling you this, maybe don’t immediately write him off as a jerk and examine yourself too.
Wendy (not Wendy) January 4, 2013, 9:46 am
Someone who cared about her health would tell her he cared about her health. Hell, even a lot of people who just didn’t like that she’d gained weight would phrase it as “I’m just worried about your health”. This is not that guy.
He’s trying to motivate her to be better arm candy. If he’s not sexually attracted to her anymore, that’s his business, but I’m very willing to immediately write him off as a jerk no matter what the circumstances are.
John Rohan January 6, 2013, 9:14 am
Isn’t that rather extreme? You really need to be attracted to someone to be in a romantic relationship them. It’s usually not about being “arm candy”.
He says he loves her and is trying to find ways to help her to improve her looks. The very short letter doesn’t say anything about whether that’s the only thing that’s important to him. I guess I am just different than most DW readers; if my partner said this to me (assuming it was in a supportive tone, not a mean or vindictive way) I wouldn’t be the least bit offended, and would take a hard honest look at how I’ve changed, and decide whether I wanted to do anything about it.
Fabelle January 4, 2013, 10:03 am
Yeah, no. This sounds like young guy who thinks he’s playing a “create your own girlfriend” game or something. The way he phrased himself doesn’t just reflect a lack of tact—it means he’s not placing value on her as an actual person.
L January 4, 2013, 10:06 am
My deal with the last letter is that he made her feel insecure about her looks. She said everything has changed. There are plenty of ways to gracefully voice your concerns about a little weight gain or a change in mood to a significant other. Since she is feeling so horrible, there’s something else going on and it’s obvious he didn’t approach it in a respectful manner.
csp January 4, 2013, 12:54 pm
See, I don’t agree with this. I think this is one of those taboo things that it is VERY hard to say something about. Especially a guy saying it to a girl. I wonder if this one comment was taken out of context.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 11:38 am
I agree with you. “he doesn’t like what he sees when he looks at me.” That could be interpreted in many ways by an insecure woman and if you have recently gained a bunch of weight then you are likely to feel insecure. I agree that a partner should make weight loss all about the health BUT it didn’t sound like he was that big of a jerk to me. He suggested they go to the gym together- meaning he cares about putting in an effort to help her. He didn’t say that she had to drop 20, stat or he’s leaving her.
I have gained weight in my relationship and my husband didn’t say anything. After I lost the weight I wished that he did. It would have stung, for sure, but it would have been a great motivator and taken me out of the denial that I was in.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 12:00 pm
On this note, DW community – how do you motivate your SO to get in shape?
I’ve been with my husband for 11 years (as of today!) and married to him for 3, he’s never been a small guy, built like a linebacker and a bit heavyset. I’m still plenty attracted to him, I actually prefer guys with a little pudge to them, but he could stand to be fitter and *definitely* to improve his diet. He knows this and has acknowledged it himself, but puts no effort towards changing anything (and is especially resistant to changing his diet). We’ve tried working out together in the past, but it does’t really work for us. And to be fair, I could use an upgrade to my own efforts too, but I seem to have an internal motivator that he’s lacking.
So how does a person say nicely, without hurting feelings, that she’d like to see her SO put more effort into fitness & health? Sorry to threadjack but it IS at least somewhat on topic so I don’t feel so bad.
LM January 4, 2013, 12:17 pm
By not shaming them. My husband said once that he was ashamed to be seen out in public with me because I was so huge after I had our son. That still hurts and I told him that it did and he apologized. I’ve got about 20 pounds to go before I get back to pre-baby weight. He doesn’t say “You look fat” or “Your butt is huge” or anything like that. He asked me before what he should say and I said say something tactful. Tact isn’t really in his vocabulary, unfortunately. So, we agreed with saying “Hey, you want to go on a walk with the kids?” or “Let’s go for a run!” or something like that. Weight doesn’t necessarily have to be put into the comment in order to get a point across.
When it comes to diet, I told my hubby that, since I do the cooking, we’re all going on a diet. He’s older so he wants to be healthy too, so it worked out. We have a “crap food” night once every couple of weeks (read pizza or burgers) so we don’t crave them. There’s no chips and cookies in the house, so that makes it easier too.
Btw, congrats on 11 years, KKZ!
theattack January 4, 2013, 12:20 pm
Doesn’t that association kind of ruin walks and runs for you though? I wouldn’t want to think that every time my fiance wanted to walk with me he was actually just trying to change the way I looked. I would be pouty, insecure, and hurt every time he wanted to go walking.
LM January 4, 2013, 12:26 pm
Not really. My husband is a very active person and I knew this before getting married. I used to be more active than I am now… my profession doesn’t really allow to be that active so I have to find the motivation to do something. We both like being outdoors, but I do more indoor things because I burn easily. I think it’s a mindset too. Right after I had our son, I was ashamed of myself because I was so big – I didn’t even want to go out in public. But, I had to put things into perspective and tell myself that the weight was only a temporary thing and the only way I would feel better is by DOING something about it.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 12:27 pm
I think that it varies with each person. Some people would prefer blunt and some would prefer a gentler approach. I would have liked my husband to have said “you’re gaining weight and I’m worried about your health.” Sure, I would be very hurt and upset but it would have really gotten the point across to me and I couldn’t blow it off as he just wanted to go for a walk.
Every marriage is different and you need to find what works for you and you’re husband. Mine is a meat and potatoes kind of guy and he doesn’t gain weight no matter what he does but I needed healthier dinner on the table and so he tries what is in front of him. He won’t eat whole wheat pasta, but turns out he loves quinoa. Trial and error.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 12:51 pm
My husband leans toward blunt. I’ve mentioned it before but he comes from a very Teasing family, and almost nothing is off-limits for teasing. I’ve found I’ve had to grow a thicker skin because we have different ideas of where is that line you should not cross, and he’s hurt/upset me before with playful teasing comments about my appearance.
I think that’s where we sometimes have a breakdown in communication – he’ll bring up a legitimate point but frame it as a joke/tease, and my knee-jerk is to either brush it off or tease back, depending on my mood, and sometimes hurtful things get said this way. Not only that, but a joking “har har we are getting chubby har har” talk does not get either of us very far down the path we need to go.
I think you were on the thread, LG, where I talked about his eating habits. He is a white bread, white rice, white tortillas, no substitutes kinda guy. I can get away with buying regular wheat bread for sandwiches, and have recently started buying the “whole grain white” bread and he’ll accept that, but otherwise it’s still a battleground. *Sigh* Oh well.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 1:22 pm
I tried to diet once before my successful weight loss and my husband said that he wasn’t going to eat the diet food- it was my issue and he didn’t want to change his eating habits because of my issue. He wasn’t gaining weight, why should he cut out white rice? Needless to say, that diet didn’t work. A few months (and about 15 lbs) later I got the point across that I needed him to work as a team with me. If there was crap in the house, I was going to eat it. He said okay, and started eating yams or squash instead of potatoes. And I lost 40 lbs in 6 months. Maybe try making new recipes with healthier ingredients and frame it as “trying new things.” I like to try new recipes so that works for me. Sometimes it’s a fail though. Turns out we both really don’t like eggplant.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:24 pm
Please share your tips!
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 1:38 pm
I ate less 🙂 Quite literally. I tracked everything I ate and counted up the calories. I tried for 1200-1350 a day. It was hard at first but then I learned what foods would keep me the fullest and healthiest without using too many calories. The only food group I really restricted was carbs. I would eat smart pasta occasionally or a piece of whole grain bread but nothing white. I ate a lot of celery with natural PB. I love that though and still eat a lot of it. I would mash steamed cauliflower to use as rice for sauces (curry chicken and stuff like that). I ate a lot of egg-white omelets for breakfast. I never went hungry and always ate breakfast.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:48 pm
Thanks. I’m trying to lose some weight now and have been counting calories, but I keep coming in at under 1200 a day, closer to 1000. Not intentionally though, and I’m not hungry bc of it, so now I’m thinking I prob am just eating better foods, but not less. I gotta start eating breakfast though.
JK January 4, 2013, 1:52 pm
@lbh its my understanding (maybe buttoned can chime in here) that if you consistently eat too few calories for your body, it actually holds on to the fat, thinking you´re in starvation mode, and that you need it. ANd definitely have breakfast!!!
katie January 4, 2013, 2:34 pm
LBH, look up nutrient density. that is what you are looking for
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 2:44 pm
thanks guys. I’ve heard that too. Never been a breakfast eater though. My sister suggested just a piece of toast with peanut butter, so I’ll try that or a carnation. @katie, looking it up now. thanks.
honeybeegood January 4, 2013, 3:36 pm
JK from my extensive internet readings, and personal experience what happens if you eat too few calories is this- Let’s say you need 2000 calories to maintain your current weight with no exercise, but you’re trying to be healthy so you’re exercising and burning an additional 300 cal a day. So you’re needs are 2300/day, but you’re only eating 1200/day. You’re in a deficit of 1100. Oh hey a pound is 3500 calories so thats like 2.2 lbs/week. That’s awesome right?! Except for a few things:
1: when you eat 1200 calories for a long period of time your metabolism slows down.
2: If you still manage to eat 1200/day every day you will still lose weight though. The downfall is when you eat something else. Its bobby’s birthday so you eat a few pieces of pizza and are at a total of 2000/day. You’d think since you needed 2300 this wouldn’t be a problem, but your body has been starving so it holds on to all those pizza calories and stores them as fat for the next time you starve it.
3: You can only oxidize so much fat in a day.
4: When you drastically cut calories you lose muscle as well as fat- this makes it harder to lose fat in the future.
The current consensus is that the best way to lose fat and keep it off is to eat a slight deficit and weight train to preserve lean body mass while losing fat. So in the above example you would eat say 2000/cal on workout days and 1700 on non-workout days. You might not lose as much “weight” as other people, but you would probably lose as much fat. This isn’t to say other methods can’t be effective, you need to find what works for you. Last January I had a biggest loser type contest with some co-workers. I ate 1200-1400 cal of whole foods every day except Saturdays where I would eat 2000 (cheat day.) I worked out 5-6 times a week for 1.5hrs. By the end of January I had lost 1.5lbs. Yay? Currently I eat 1750 on non-workout days and 2500 or so on workout days depending on what I do. It is working much better than eating 1200 cal for me, and I don’t feel binge-y.
Breakfast turns out to not matter that much either now I hear.
JK January 4, 2013, 3:44 pm
very interesting. I am one of those lucky people that has never had to diet (even having gained heaps of weight in my pregnancies it just melted off), but I was just going from what i´d heard/read. 🙂
honeybeegood January 4, 2013, 4:04 pm
I was one of those people until I quit smoking. haha!
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 5:17 pm
I will say that my body only needs 1500 calories a day without exercising so eating 1200-1350 isn’t THAT much of a cut for me. Also, I didn’t really exercise all that often during my dieting. I know I should and I would try to but wouldn’t keep it up. Obviously eat more if you are exercising!
honeybeegood January 4, 2013, 5:55 pm
Yes that wasn’t directed at you specifically lemongrass, and I apologize if it came across that way. Eating what you ate seemed to work well for you so congratulations! The bulk of the diet industry (gross term imo) seems to feel that everyone needs 1200 calories or maybe as much as 1400 no matter what which is just silly. I guess then more people fail and they buy more books and gadgets?
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 7:00 pm
No I just wanted to point out that some people don’t need 2000 calories a day. It was obviously trial and error for me to figure that out! I didn’t read any diet books or anything like that, I just found what worked for me. I don’t believe in certain “diets” like south beach or cabbage soup and when I say “on my diet” I literally mean the food I ate lol.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 1:04 pm
We switch off on cooking duties, but I do almost all the grocery shopping and meal planning, so I do have a pretty firm level of control over what we have in stock. Snacking is our problem more than meals, and I’ve been try-try-trying to keep less snack food in the house. But I think where it *really* becomes a problem is when he’s working (he’s a contractor so he’s not always employed) because he goes out to lunch ALL THE TIME. I could pack him a lunch but truthfully, I barely remember to pack *myself* a lunch every day, and besides, I’m not his mother.
His secret to weight loss is exercise. Having been together as long as we are, I’ve seen him do it more than once. When he starts exercising, he drops weight like no tomorrow, like 15-20lbs in a month. Motivating him to exercise regularly enough to see those results is the tough part, though. We have a punching bag, but without a training buddy, he doesn’t use it (nor did he ever bother to get the proper equipment, hand wraps, etc.). I can kind of understand that – my dance practice has severely dropped off since I stopped dancing with my best friend when our schedules and living arrangements changed.
Maybe that should be our joint resolution for 2013 – each of us needs to get back in touch with our workout buddies and lean on them for support.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:29 pm
I’d focus on saying you want him to be healthier.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 1:29 pm
I guess that’s the thing, though, it’s hard for me to make a health argument, because it’s not really his weight I’m concerned with. He IS overweight but not at a health-threatening level. What I want is for him to *get in shape,* not necessarily just drop pounds – I’d love to see him start strength training again and get the tone back in his arms and shoulders. Not super-buff, I find that gross and he knows it, but enough that I can see the lines of his muscles again.
I tried a couple months back suggesting that we find some partners exercises we can do together, but that was met with an eye-roll. We used to go to the gym together years and years ago but still worked out separately. I think he needs a MALE workout buddy who likes doing the same stuff he does, and can help him commit to a regular routine. He used to golf all the time too and I know he’d love to get back to that this summer – he traveled all last summer and I think only golfed once or twice.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:35 pm
If he’s not the ideal weight and in perfect shape with a 6 pack, you can always use the health argument. What’s he going to say, I’m too healthy already? No one is too healthy.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 2:01 pm
Not too healthy, but healthy enough. As in, he’s not seeing any ill effects from his weight that have a significant impact on his weight, so status quo is acceptable. My theory is he doesn’t view his weight/body shape as a health issue, but an appearance one (hey, I think we all do that to some extent). And I don’t think he personally views the 6-pack level of fitness as an ideal he wants to work towards. He is 6’2″ and just “built thick” (his brother is the same – that linebacker bodytype runs in the family) which I know is no excuse for not working out, but still kinda pushes the 6-pack Adonis out of the realm of plausibility.
In other words, he’s content to settle with where he’s at now, because it’s not affecting him negatively. Does he wish he looked better? Sure, but he doesn’t want it bad enough, he has no reason to want it. And part of me knows the answer, that it has to come from HIM, just like in relationships, he has to want to change, I can’t force change on him. Treading the line between that logic, and wanting to be a supportive and motivating partner and nudge him towards action, is where I’m stumbling.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 2:02 pm
Endomorph! That’s the word I wanted. He has an endomorphic body type.
csp January 4, 2013, 12:42 pm
Here are two things that I did. 1.) I do 90% or the cooking in our house. So once I was cooking better because I was on a new plan and my husband lost 20 lbs just because I was cooking healthier food. So don’t say anything just make the food and prepare the plate for him. Like if I fill a plate, I will make most of it salad, but my husband will make it mostly meat. 2.) don’t “work out” but have more active date nights. So for example, my husband and I are taking six weeks of latin dance classes or we go roller skating rather than just sitting at a bar. Another good thing is doing projects around the house. if you are organizing, painting, or rearranging furniture, then it works.
csp January 4, 2013, 12:45 pm
if you go on pinterest, there are pins for “active dates”. Also, don’t have dinner in front of the tv but at the table.
KKZ January 4, 2013, 1:17 pm
I am LOLing at the idea of even trying to convince my husband to do Latin dance. 😉 He won’t even dance with me at weddings. My birthday was a few weeks ago and I had a private yoga party at my favorite studio. He was definitely dragging his feet and grumbling that day, but ended up really enjoying the yoga session. I told him he’s free to join me for my weekly class anytime he wants… but I’m not holding my breath that he’ll take me up on it.
You do have a good point, we could both afford to be more active. I love to go for hikes and dog walks but I HATE winter weather so that’s a seasonally-limited idea. We used to ride bikes together a lot before we had a dog but he’s getting rid of his bike when we move later this month. Maybe the change of space and scenery will inspire us to make other changes.
Dinner by the TV has got to be our worst habit. In the apartment we’re leaving, we didn’t really have a viable dining area – a table we used for bills and key-dropping and stuff, but almost all dining happened by the TV. In fact we spend WAYYYYYY too much time in front of the stupid TV as it is. Damn you, Netflix, for allowing us to marathon our favorite shows!
csp January 4, 2013, 2:14 pm
My husband is not happy about Latin Dance either but he is a “try anything once type of guy” so he was game. I just think that we gained weight together because we used to be active together. Then we started sitting and eating together. My sister and BIL are very active, I got them a gift card to a rock climbing gym for Christmas. Or Ice Skating or even bowling. Or we went to a pool hall recently. Even though some of those aren’t alot of effort, at least it isn’t just sitting. A good thing for cooking is skinnytaste. you can google it. but the food tastes good and is lower calorie. So you can be a foodie on it. Great activities also can be found on Groupon. I have seen things show up that I have found fun. Also looking at your local community center or community college. My point is that you can be “active” without calling it exercise. I find that it goes over much better that way.
csp January 4, 2013, 12:50 pm
I actually think this too. LW, you need to ask yourself if he has a point? How long have you been in this relationship and have you gained weight. I remember, when my husband and I were together. We both realized over the course of our relationship that we each had gained 40 lbs. It happened slowly over the course of 10 years but it happened. We both realized that by gaining 5lbs a year, we would be 500 lbs by the time we were old. So, LW, the question is. Is he not attracted to you because you gained 10 lbs or because you gained 100?
Lo January 4, 2013, 6:55 pm
I definitely think there is a difference between a man who just wants arm candy and someone who may be coming from a sincere place. But if the man was truly shallow, he maybe wouldn’t say something like let’s work out together he’d just dump her and find someone new – at least that’s my reaction trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. On her end, there is a difference between having enough self awareness/confidence to look at yourself and evaluate a comment like that for any truth and being too insecure to respond with a reaction other than defensiveness and more insecurity.
Kelly L. January 5, 2013, 9:27 pm
Not necessarily. There are guys (and women too) who might approach this from a sincere place, and there are people who might just leave…but there are also people who are just plain jerks or verbal abusers who say things like this specifically to undermine their partner’s confidence, to make them feel like they’ll never find anyone else if they leave, etc. The OP knows her boyfriend better than we do, but just from the little bit we see here, his wording ain’t great. Maybe it was clumsy and well meant, but maybe it was an intentional dig. I can assure you that people exist who would make such digs on purpose.
I feel like you are criticizing the OP for being upset by the comment. It’s not at all unreasonable to be upset by the comment. He was tactless at best and cruel at worst, depending on the way the comment fits into the larger context of his personality and behavior.
LK7889 January 4, 2013, 9:52 am
Every time I hear the “my boyfriend is sleeping with another woman” story from a LW, I always think that the “other woman” is probably thinking the same thing! Also, if there are two babies from two different mamas, there were definitely “other women” aside from the ones we know about.
Fabelle January 4, 2013, 9:56 am
I think somebody has brought this up in the past, but why do so many young women feel the need to ask permission to feel their feelings? Or ask WHAT they should be feeling?
LW1: “should I just not care about the past? or should I make it a big deal?” Babies are a big fucking deal. So yes, you should “make it a big deal”—by moving on. The short answer is that there’s too much baggage here.
LW3: “…is it OK to rather be with someone who loves me for me?” What do you mean, is it “OK”??? Of course it’s okay to prefer a partner NOT to say things like “I don’t like what I see when I look at you.” Does he like it better when his girlfriend is crying on the treadmill, holding her head down in public because of how badly she feels about herself? That’s bullshit. It’s time to lose this guy.
And LW2…I don’t even know what to say. It’s fine to feel weird about an ex, but please don’t over-analyze his drunken voicemails. Especially if they’re about your cat, & not you.
LK7889 January 4, 2013, 10:14 am
I think these women have been gaslighted for so long that they actually internalize what they are told and think that if they are feeling X, they must be crazy, which is why they ask for permission to feel a certain way. They need reassurance that they are not crazy. It’s sad, really, and I wish I could just get them to believe that they are not crazy and that their feelings are not invalid!
artsygirl January 4, 2013, 11:13 am
LW 3- as the old joke goes. A great way to loose weight is dump your BF, approx. 200 lbs gone immediately!
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 10:05 am
Are people just totally fucking dense? Have the young women of the world just been totally blind to how difficult it is to have a baby, ever!, let alone with a loser, who has more babies?
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 10:09 am
I assume that if you write in, that you probably read the site somewhat regularly. So seriously, how are people still this clueless?
LK7889 January 4, 2013, 10:16 am
My sincere hope is that a lot of these people are just googling up “advice” or the like and ending up here…
katie January 4, 2013, 10:21 am
babies are touted as the culmination of all of a person’s (and really, specifically a woman’s) purpose in life all over our culture. everyone whines about “saving the babies” from any and all dangers, they say that having children is the “most important job in your life” and that they will bring you joy, happiness, purpose, ect…
no one ever talks about the shitty parts about raising a kid- we have talked about this before, it was one of wendy’s pieces on motherhood that was on her top pieces of 2012… about how everyone talks about how wonderful it will be, pushes it on others, ect, and then when it happens many mothers marytr their lives about the whole thing (ie. i gave that child MY WHOLE LIFE! i sacrificed everything! ect).
so really, to a female child/teenager, they are taught that a baby is *everything*. it doesnt surprise me in the slightest that people think as this LW thinks. its how we teach them.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 10:30 am
I feel like (and I could be massively wrong) that yes, while women are taught the baby is everything and the culmination and all that, they are taught that EVENTUALLY a baby will be everything, blah, blah, blah. Not when you are a kid yourself! Not before you have accomplished anything in your life!
And what about all the women/girls that are taught you have to support yourself, go to college, be as good as a man, etc.?
katie January 4, 2013, 10:38 am
i would say that especially in lower economic brackets, the “eventually” part gets lost. i would actually say that the eventually part is lost a lot of the time… and anyway, its easy to think that eventually means now- especially for an 18 year old. and then especially for an 18 year old who has family problems, and as someone pointed out somewhere else, maybe has love/acceptance issues or some other sort of issue that a child would “fix” for them, and has wanted a baby since she was 13. i can see that all adding together to create an 18 year old with no income to speak of and no house to live in thinking a baby is a good choice.
about women being taught to support themselves/college/ect, i think that is like the other end of the extreme. we never really talk about the balance of it, really, which i think is the problem. you are either career driven 100% and cant have a kid because that will mess up your 10 year plan or whatever OR you are wanting a baby at 18. i feel like there is so, so little in between those two extremes..
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 10:44 am
Great points katie. Sad though.
I’ve always admired people who have a grasp on balancing their lives.
ktfran January 4, 2013, 11:04 am
I know where I grew up, finding a husband and having kids is the most important thing a girl or woman could do. That’s how you define your life. If you don’t reach the husband/kid point by a certain age, there is something wrong with you. There are a few reasons I moved away. That was one of them.
I get that’s it 2012, but in a lot of parts of the country, there is a stigma attached to unwed, childless women. I mean, just look at all the politicians who brought up women issues in the last year. Are you effing kidding me?
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 11:14 am
I know a fair amount of people with that mindset. It’s pretty sad. Like a woman isn’t whole until she’s married and has kids. What?
ktfran January 4, 2013, 11:59 am
It makes my stomach churn.
LM January 4, 2013, 1:02 pm
I think it’s a generational thing… my mom is 60 and she, for whatever reason, put a lot of emphasis or finding a good husband and being a good housekeeper and all of that… yet, she is a very educated and hard working woman. That, for some reason, got lost in translation.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:11 pm
Yea, I’m hoping the next generation will not see having a husband and/or a baby as the culmination of a woman’s life.
If the woman chooses to think its the best thing ever, or the ultimate goal, that’s a different story.
LM January 4, 2013, 1:44 pm
Me too. I over heard my stepson and his girlfriend talking marriage and babies. They’re still in their teens and I was mortified! I was hoping my last pregnancy and my daughter were birth control enough, but the g/f’s mom doesn’t seem to see the importance of BC or education. She knows of their sexual exploits and won’t even put the g/f on BC!
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:50 pm
Denial maybe? Strange. My mom didn’t like to put any of us on bc (obv!). I brought my sisters to get it without her knowing at the time. Worth it if you ask me. Not that I recommend doing that with your son’s gf!!
LM January 4, 2013, 1:59 pm
I have sat down with both and them and talked about it… and then I told the g/f that if I ever heard about her having sex in my house (before or future) she would never be allowed over again. She doesn’t seem to think of me as a parental figure because we are just over 10 years apart and she seems to think we are on the same level. The stepson… I don’t have that type of relationship with him, so I had to tell the hubby my concerns that he related over.
The g/f’s mom though, she had way too many (5) kids at way too young (she’s 40 and the oldest is 22 or 23…) so, well, I kind of see where her obliviousness is coming from…
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 11:45 am
This is why I complain as frequently as I can to all teenagers around me about the discomforts of pregnancy. Nobody said I would feel like I’ve been kicked in the crotch or that I would sweat so much. I feel like a walking PSA because I don’t hold it in for those girls. And I straight up tell them “continue to take your birth control pills if you don’t want your va-jay-jay to swell up.” The disgusted looks on their faces tells me I’m doing my job right.
theattack January 4, 2013, 11:47 am
vagina…swells…what?!!?! that’s horrifying! thank you for that heavy dose of birth control, lemongrass.
Beth January 4, 2013, 11:55 am
oh it does more than swell up…hahaha! I did not mind being pregnant, but the shit show my body was afterwards was way worse.
I agree that too much esteem is placed on being a mother. I do like being a mom, but in so many ways it does super suck. And it is hard to prepare for the shitty parts until you start experiencing them for yourself.
It also has many benefits. But I feel that as a person, there are much better things a woman can do than have a kid. I hope my life won’t be completely summed up at 26 because of my child.
katie January 4, 2013, 11:59 am
it makes sense- everything swells up when your pregnant from what ive heard from people. your vagina is just another part of you, and also is located at the bottom of your torso, easy for excess water to drain towards…
theattack January 4, 2013, 12:13 pm
Goddd, This is why I flip flop between wanting kids and not wanting them. Because, OMG SO CUUUUUTE, and then there’s a swollen vagina. Then you see cute little baby pajamas with giraffes and OMG SO CUTE AGAIN, and then you find out that people poop during labor. So confusing!
So is this the internal actual vagina we’re talking about, or the vulva? I’d imagine this completely stops all sex.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:18 pm
You think a swollen vagina is bad? Wait til you see what happens after delivery!
But yea, baby pjs with giraffes!
theattack January 4, 2013, 12:22 pm
whawhawha….what happens after delivery? I’m scared. Don’t tell me. But then do tell me because I have to know.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:27 pm
Ever hear about vaginal reconstruction surgery? So it looks pretty again.
Or episioty (sp?). I had one (where they cut you to make room). The plus side, I don’t even remember the cutting because I was in such pain already, with an epidural fading away, but crap did it hurt after. And for weeks. You would have to soak it for hours in a sitz bath for any kind of relief. And I was so scared to tear open the stitches that I tried to not go to the bathroom for like a week. Also painful.
Stay focused on the baby pajamas 🙂
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 12:32 pm
I’m not looking forward to healing! I’m doing all I can now to prevent tearing, including *shudder* perenial stretching. They don’t do episiotomies hardly ever anymore though, LBH. Also, I have an AWESOME midwife who is really experienced (over 2,400 births!) and she’ll be with me the whole time. I’m really going to try to go drug free so that I can labour and birth not laying on my back because that increases the chances of tearing and other complications by a lot.
theattack January 4, 2013, 12:35 pm
…I don’t think I like baby pajamas anymore 🙁 That is so scary. How did you do all of that with a newborn? My god.
JK January 4, 2013, 12:39 pm
It totally depends on the person. And I´m a wuss.
WIth both (natural) births I had episiotomies, (one posterolaterl, one posterior), and sure they´re uncomfortable, but not that bad. I didn´t take any painkillers after coming home (at the clinic they gave me something haha). And my babies were BIG and with the eldest the slit my ob did wasnt enough so I tore a little as well. And the scars are barely noticeable.
I mean I´m not about convincing everyone to go have babies, but I wouldn´t want someone that wants babies to not have them for fear of the birth and what happens after.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:46 pm
@lemon, I didn’t know that. Guess its been a while, however, I was a labor coach for a friend about 4 years ago and they did. And if you just arent big enough, it will tear on its own, so I’m not sure how accurate the whole barely-ever comment is. But obv I am not a doctor or have had a baby recently. GOOD LUCK! When are you due?
@attack, Yea, not fun with a baby, but even as a single parent, I;m not going to pretend to be one of those that never had a minute to pee or anything. I’d just soak when my mom or sister were playing with the baby.
@jk, I agree, I wouldn’t let the fear of childbirth keep you from having kids. Even with all the scary, painful stuff, you will be fine. My body snapped back pretty quickly with no effort at all. Granted, I was young, but my moms had 6 kids and still looks great. Just some stretch marks. I have none.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 12:57 pm
Oh, tearing is very common, but cutting you open (at least in Canada) isn’t really done anymore because you are most likely to tear exactly as far as you need to and no more, where they can cut you too far. An episiotomy is pretty useless since your body is going to tear if it needs to anyways. I’m due in a month! So probably 6 weeks since I’m most likely going to be late as everyone in my family is.
katie January 4, 2013, 1:04 pm
the US does a whole lot of stuff that other countries dont… we have one of the worst infant mortality rates in the whole world… lower then a lot of ‘third world’ countries.
theattack January 4, 2013, 1:16 pm
I’d always heard it was preferable to be cut than to tear because supposedly it heals better and is less likely to get infected, but I don’t know how true any of that is.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:19 pm
@attack, that’s my understanding as well.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 1:33 pm
Katie’s right- the US’s treatment of pregnant women is appalling. Check out “the business of being born” documentary.
The WHO recommends using episiotomies sparingly. I’ve never heard of them healing better than a tear or having a lessened chance of infection. I’ve heard the opposite. You aren’t necessarily going to tear so routinely using episiotomies would definitely create more chances for infection: more cuts, more chances.
Culture and location plays a huge part in the whole birthing scene as well. Different countries have very different views. In my part of Canada having less interventions is preferable whereas in the US it isn’t unusual for a Dr. to schedule interventions based on his schedule or convenience.
JK January 4, 2013, 1:37 pm
I have heard that tears scar better than epis. However, with my 2nd kid, my OB preferred not to cut. Her head got stuck, and most of the delivery was spent trying to get her head out (the dr scooping around her head with every push). And nothing. WIth the epi she was out straight away (by that stage I was exhausted as well). Só It can happen that you don´t tear and the baby still doesnpt come out.
And with my 1st Iknow the dr.cut to control where the epi would be (since a tear can be anywhere, and riskier places. Since we already knew she was going to be big he didn´t want to risk it.
Luckily I had no issues whatsoever either time.
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 1:38 pm
lemongrass, the amount of scheduled c-sections for convience is appalling to me. My uncles girlfriend was just talking about how she was going to schedule her c-section (for her first pregnancy with absolutely no complications) so it was on a convient date and asap because she was “tired of being pregnant and uncomfortable”. Come the fuck on.
katie January 4, 2013, 1:42 pm
GG- and whats worse is that there is research coming out now that is suggesting that the later weeks of pregnancy are so, so crucial to a childs development. oregon, i think, actually passed a law that you cant “schedule” a C-section. they are only to be used in active labor or in emergencies.
JK January 4, 2013, 1:48 pm
I´ll never get why people prefer C sections. I´ve always been terrified of them. It´s fucking surgery people.
The epidural scared the crap out of me as well, luckily my ob prefers not to use them as well.Of course if it was a matter of life or death I would have had a C section, but so the date would be better? Or because I was sick of being pregnant? God people piss me off.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 2:48 pm
It’s appalling to me too. Interventions, c-sections, etc. are fantastic when medically needed but they are so overused and one just leads to another. There is a real lack of trust that a woman’s body is able to birth on it’s own. I’m lucky that that mindset isn’t so bad where I live. The health minister of BC just publicly stated that he recommends homebirths for low risk pregnancies because they are safe! I’m too far away from a hospital for my own personal tastes but if I was closer I would definitely consider it. I’ve looked into all the medications available to pregnant women and the side effects that they don’t tell you are crazy.
theattack January 4, 2013, 2:54 pm
What’s really scary to me is that you can have a natural birth as your birth plan, but if your doctor isn’t there when you go into labor, another doctor can just insist on doing something differently when it’s not necessary. And what are you going to do? Say you’ll come back later? People end up being cornered into C-sections basically.
I would be way too scared to give birth away from a hospital though. What if something goes wrong and you or your baby need immediate life-saving care?
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 2:58 pm
I have never heard of a woman showing up at the hospital in labor and being forced to do an unnecessary c section.
Wendy January 4, 2013, 3:07 pm
It DEFINITELY happens!! Doctors can’t leave until the baby they are birthing comes out. They can’t leave mid-labor, even if they have dinner reservations later or plans to see their favorite band or whatever. So instead of working for a potential 24 more hours or so, they tell the laboring mother than a c-section will be beneficial because of X,Y,Z. No, they don’t force a woman to get a c-section, but to a woman who has already been laboring for hours and hours and is tired and emotional and probably concerned for the welfare of her baby, a doctor can certainly make a c-section seem like the best option. When, really, it’s only for the doctor’s benefit. Happens all the time.
theattack January 4, 2013, 3:10 pm
I think they can also get more money for it since it’s a surgery.
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 3:22 pm
Very true. It also costs you a ton more than a natural birth. The birthing centers I’ve been looking into (way ahead of time btw) cost about $5,000 (if you have no insurance) for all prenatal appointments labor/delivery and follow ups. Plus a fair number of insurances cover birth centers. It can cost an astronomical amount to have a baby in a hospital.
Lark January 5, 2013, 1:42 am
Pros/Cons to both sides. I tend to fall on the hospital side, but I completely understand why people go the home birth route. I think the natural birth centers at the hospitals or right next to a hospital are kind of a happy medium. However, I do kind of hate the narrative of most OBGYNs supposedly being disrespectful/always wanting the easy way and to charge more money, etc that I often see on Jezebel and some other websites. The doctor who delivered me saved my life…everything looked hunky dory, and then it all went to hell (I was born with a cord wrapped around my neck and worse). I have a close friend that’s an OBGYN and she’s very supportive of those who chose the home birth route if they feel it is the best choice for them as long as the pregnancy looks fine.
JK January 5, 2013, 9:00 am
Even when the pregnancy looks fine things can go wrong in delivery. A friend of mine had her 1st son in one clinic (C section), for her 2nd she decided to switch clinics because the 1st one didnt have ICU for newborns. Her daughter was born (Csection) and ended up having to be in the ICU for a few days.
Granted home births aren´t even really an option where I live, but I was glad to have my daughters in a place where I knew they (or I) would get immediate emergency care if needed.
JK January 4, 2013, 3:50 pm
Both of my births screwed my OB over completely, the 1st was at noon on a day he was covering for another doctor, so he had a waiting room FULL of patients, and the 2nd he was out to dinner with friends (born at 10.35 pm).
My doctor is awesome though. 🙂
theattack January 4, 2013, 3:00 pm
You haven’t? My mom has told me horror stories about it at her hospital. I don’t know how common it is though
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 3:01 pm
Note the word unnecessary.
If a doctor believes its a must even though the patient doesn’t want it, that’s very different.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 3:06 pm
theattack- not having the doctor I spent my pregnancy getting to know is one of the main reasons I chose to have a midwife. They may be different down in the states but here they are the most amazing thing ever. My midwife comes to my house when I go into labour, travels to the hospital with me and stays with me the whole time until after I give birth and all that. Then for the next week or two she makes visits to my house so I don’t have to leave. I get 45 mins at my appts with her and she has all the same legal rights and whatnot as Dr.’s do. Plus our medical system pays for it all, the same as Dr.s
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 3:11 pm
@theattack Have you ever considered a birth center or using a midwife? Rather then just a tradition OBGYN. They are highly trained (and birth centers are medically equipt) but are usually more focused on natural birth and less medical intervention.
Sadly, LBH, there are plenty of doctors who will gladly do a c-section (or schedule on in advance) so they can have their night off/vacation day/go home. I know countless people who had scheduled c-sections so the doctor could have his weekend off or because they were carrying a 9 pound baby and it would be faster than trying to go through the labor. C-sections are life saving in a lot of situations and need to happen sometimes, but a lot of people go the “easy” route. Get a C-section and a tummy tuck in one! Have the c-section on December 19 so you don’t end up in labor on 12/25. It happens. A lot.
misslisa January 5, 2013, 4:52 pm
The horror stories of pregnancy and childbirth are precisely why I had my tubes tied at an early age. That procedure alone freaked me out (no laproscopic back then so an inch-long incision), but I figured it was far better than the horrors of childbirth!
Well guess what – at age 46, I had to undergo reconstructive surgery anyway, even though I’ve never even been pregnant. A combination of factors lead to my having an incision similar to an episiotomy (all the way across the taint!) plus some internal things which I don’t want to gross out y’all with. (Look up pelvic prolapse for more info).
If I’d known at 25 that these medical issues were inevitable regardless of having kids or not, I might have had kids after all. So, theattack, don’t let fear stop you the way it did me.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 3:16 pm
yea, def have heard of the pregnant lady wanting one that isn’t necessary, but that’s different obviously.
I guess I read the comment weirdly, like a woman literally is forced to do it. Sounds like docs may try to convince only.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 12:22 pm
The vulva. Mines pretty minor actually, it’s more the pain that is bothersome. And sex is about the last thing I want (turns out I’m not one of those crazy-horny pregnant women) but we still do it about once every week and a half or two. Only because I feel sorry for my husband! Terrible, I know, but in a few weeks he’ll be getting it everyday for the prostaglandins.
I had my hospital tour last night and before I was grumbling “get out of my ribs, child!” and grumpy but then there was a newborn baby and you can’t help but smile. Most of the time I hate being pregnant, it hasn’t been easy, but I do still think it is worth it. Because really, robot pajama’s!
JK January 4, 2013, 12:13 pm
It doesnt happen to everyone, I was one of the lucky ones, thank goodness 🙂
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:15 pm
Haha. I used to joke that my sisters didn’t need BC because of seeing me pregnant.
LM January 4, 2013, 12:59 pm
I think we can sort of blame shows like “Teen Mom” and “16 and Pregnant” that sort of glorify teen or young pregnancy. They also get paid. I think it is the generation or ones that don’t have solid upbringings.
And yes, they are totally dense. I was one of those “statistics” and had my daughter at 19… so, I am determined to show her that if you make a “mistake”, own up to it and strive for something more. I have a good job and am almost done with a degree.
Oh, and LBH – there is a shirt with your Porculoon romance on it!
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 1:07 pm
Awesome about the shirt!
I’m in the same boat LM. Kid at 20. It blows me away that someone who had a child young unintentionally or ill-prepared would do anything but their best to deter their kid from the same thing. Like, don’t you people want better for your kid than what you had? Strange.
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 1:19 pm
I know I’m in the minority but I don’t think the MTV shows glorify teen pregnancy at all. Have you watched them ever? Most episodes are filled with fighting, crying, money struggles,relatinoships falling apart and then a few tender or happy moments with the kids. The bulk of the shows are terribly depressing and make me, at 27 and about to get married, worried that having a child is more then I can handle!
LM January 4, 2013, 1:51 pm
I’ve watched a few, but I stopped because it just seemed ridiculous. The magazines and tabloids in grocery stores don’t much help. I do know that most of them have drama up the wazoo, but then enter the magazines and internet and the mere mention of their $60,000 paycheck for the series and BAM! Enter stupid. But there are those teenagers that think they can get their 15 minutes of fame if they do wind up pregnant with all their spin offs and interviews and stuff.
GatorGirl – I think it makes you logical, though. Congrats on the upcoming nuptials!
LBH – not a clue why. My husband and I both said we had our first kids at way too young and it’s just frustrating. It’s almost like the stepson and the g/f see it as, well, you’re doing alright for yourself… you have a good job, a car, a house, etc, but what they DIDN’T see was all the struggle that came with it. I did the military thing and that enabled me to be able to get a job and a car and a house, but not everyone is lucky or they don’t work for things or the opportunity isn’t there or whatever. It galls me and I just don’t get it.
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 3:56 pm
I’ve actually been watching a Teen Mom marathon today while home sick and it’s sad. It’s really really sad. The amount of family drama, boyfriend drama, abuse, money problems…it never ends. I don’t know how any young girl could watch this show and think “I’ll make it rich if I just get pregnant and on Teen Mom!!” Perhaps I’m way to level headed compaired to most people but ugh, this show is so sad.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 4:02 pm
I agree, but they get a ton of money too. Celebs in general having babies, esp young or unmarried, I think adds to the coolness of being pregnant in girls’ eyes.
Also, can I come to the wedding? A DW wedding would be so fun. (that’s not rude to ask, right 🙂
GatorGirl January 4, 2013, 5:40 pm
Haha, of course it’s not rude to ask! You make it to PA, you can come to the party! Don’t forget to bring the pre-selected toaster as a gift! 🙂
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 5:41 pm
God you’re rude. Forget it!
Lianne January 4, 2013, 10:20 am
These shortcuts always make me laugh! Happy Friday!!
Essie January 4, 2013, 10:33 am
LW3, here’s the correct answer to “I don’t like what I see when I look at you”:
“Not a problem, because you won’t have to look at me ever again.” Followed by the door slamming as you walk out on this loser.
I have a friend who had a 20-year-marriage to someone who said things like that. Do you know what 20 years of constantly marinating in those kinds of putdowns does to someone? A formerly strong, confident, happy woman is now a broken, depressed person who’s afraid to leave her house because she doesn’t want anyone to see how fat and ugly she is (she’s neither, by the way). Her husband ran off with one of his girlfriends years ago.
Please, please, walk away now. And walk away from any man who puts you down like that.
John Rohan January 6, 2013, 9:05 am
If he honestly doesn’t like what he sees, what should he do? Lie about it? I’m genuinely curious.
It’s not a “putdown”. He’s actually telling her in the most gentle way possible, and he offered to go to the gym with her to work on it. He might be a shallow jerk, and he might not. But he is definitely not your friend’s former husband, so you shouldn’t assume that he has done all the same terrible things that this other guy did.
rachel January 6, 2013, 11:36 am
I actually agree with you, John. I’m sure my feelings would be hurt if I heard something like that from my partner, but we don’t really know in this situation whether it was meant in a caring way or a mean way – there is a lot of context missing.
Kate B. January 4, 2013, 10:34 am
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. WHY do these women put up with this??? M.O.A. Aim higher. Everything that we say all the time here x 1000. Please. What is so wrong with being single? Having standards? I’ve been single for a long time and I may never go back. I’m having too much fun. Think of a life full of freedom and fun. This could be you. (Sales pitch over.) Please. Leave these men. They are not good for you.
othy January 4, 2013, 10:58 am
LW2, you are reading FAR too much into this. He was drunk, he missed his cat. This doesn’t mean you can Facebook stalk him. You broke up two years ago, MOA.
QaraKoz January 4, 2013, 11:27 am
Agree. Lw2: after 2 years he is not your “boyfriend”. He is your EX. And you need to MOA.
Beth January 4, 2013, 11:29 am
oh shit storm.
#1- MOA! Please! I work for a lawyer that does divorces and child custody, and once men start having multiple illegitimate children, you will never be a priority financially, as child support is a bitch!
#2- Why would you even give a shit he left a voicemail? He was drunk. Press delete and move on. Block his ass on facebook and cuddle with your cat and be glad you don’t have to deal with his vermin.
#3- you are beautiful as you are. If YOU want to go to the gym, then go! If you want to make major life choices, then do it! But don’t base them off of him. Plus, he sounds like a dick.
theattack January 4, 2013, 11:41 am
The child support thing was my exact thought. In my state, if a man has children by several different women, the last child is barely getting any child support. The child support calculations for each child are calculated including what he’s already paying in child support. LW, that means that the two girls he cheated on you with would be getting more child support than you (if he even bothered to pay it), because he would get “credit” for paying the child support for the first two children, which reduces the amount he’s ordered to pay to you. It’s complicated, but please realize that this is not a good situation for you.
Lindsay January 4, 2013, 11:33 am
I’m still trying to figure out what the point of #2 is. I get that drunken messages are annoying, particularly from exes, but it’s not worth this much thought. Am I missing something, though, as to why it deserves an apology and a bitchy email? If it keeps happening, tell him to delete your number, but you guys have been broken up way too long for this to be distressing you as much as it is.
Addie Pray January 4, 2013, 11:41 am
Help, there’s a Friends reference here! Based on my fuzzy Friends memory, it goes something like this: Rachel is on a date with some guy and gets drunk and leaves a voice message for Ross, saying something about being happy for him and his cat, a cat he should name Michael! There, that’s all I remember. Except I also remember that, of course, Ross was Rachel’s true love. Meaning, the drunk voice message *was* significant! LW2, I think you are Ross and your ex is Rachel….and your ex still loves you! Go for it – true love conquers all! I think you should go to Utah and surprise him – you could wear a big down coat with nothing underneath. Per usual, glad I could be the voice of reason among all these murderers of love.
bethany January 4, 2013, 11:50 am
The message ended with “And that my friend, is what we call closure”
Then Ross comes over and listens to the message… “You’re over me? When were you under me?”
Something like that.
Tanya January 4, 2013, 12:04 pm
How did he manage to get 2 women pregnant? I mean, really! I have only recently started trying for a baby and until you do, you don’t really realize what a short period of time within the month you have to make one!! They must have been going at it like rabbits or the guy is just that lucky (?). Either way…move on, girl, before you become pregnant mama no.3.
lets_be_honest January 4, 2013, 12:08 pm
Not to sound awful, but why would you want the father of your child to already have other children, esp with different mothers? Would you want an ideal situation of it just being the 3 of you? I mean, its not like he was even married when he had them, and divorced and is now some great single dad.
va-in-ny January 4, 2013, 1:49 pm
Maybe they were roommates and ended up on the same cycle…
cdobbs January 4, 2013, 12:33 pm
LW3 sorry your boyfriend said that to you (very cold)…how would your boyfriend feel if you pointed out his flaws (and i’m sure he has a few, everyone does)…if someone said when they looked at me and didn’t like what they saw i would so be out of there…not only because i wouldn’t want to be with someone who is so inconsiderate (and just plain mean!)…but i would forever feel so uncomfortable around them…”what flaw are they looking at now”…ugh, not a nice way to live!
Meredith January 4, 2013, 2:19 pm
I should’ve let LW1 come to my house and change the poop diaper my 2 mo old just had. Great deterrent lolol.
honeybeegood January 4, 2013, 3:40 pm
“and he has rats” has to be in the top 10 DW lines ever.
lemongrass January 4, 2013, 5:55 pm
Again, check out “the business of being born.” It’s a really good documentary. It’s on Canadian netflix so it should be on the US as well.
bittergaymark January 4, 2013, 8:40 pm
Dear God. Wendy, please, please PLEASE try to get classier LWs writing in… For the mother of God, talk about One, Two, no, THREE hopelessly lost causes…
acastil5 January 4, 2013, 9:56 pm
Shouldn’t it be “meow meow”?
wendykh January 5, 2013, 12:51 pm
I don’t think it helps to be dismissive of a teen girl’s desire to have a baby. It could be for all the wrong reasons, or her hormones. Acknowledging it and helping her plan to get into a position to do that responsibly (yes, getting financially stable with her OWN career and in a healthy relationship) will do more good than telling her how wrong her desire is. The second one starts with “butbutbut your youth is so awesome don’t give it away!” they tune out.
wendykh January 5, 2013, 1:01 pm
FTR it drives me NUTS when people say “butbutbut what if something goes wrong?!” regarding homebirth. Um, then you go to the hospital. This is not rocket science. I had 1&3 in hospital, 2 in a birth centre, and 4 at home. Not having to deal with snotty patronizing nurses treating me like a child was the best part of being home. There was nothing good about the hospital except that with #3 we both lived. I was grateful to the doctors (who for the record were kind and respectful) but the snot nurses treating me like some retarded 15 yr old was not a good experience. I was accused of not getting prenatal care despite having gone through my province’s fully regulated and funded midwifery service “NO when you are pregnant you need to see a DOCTOR a midwife is NOT prenatal care!” Luckily I have no complex about being a bitch myself and said “I have no idea where you got your nursing degree young lady but midwives have been regulated and fully integrated into the health care system here since 1996. I had every test you can imagine plus an amnio and daily sugar checks. So please be more educated before you assume my medical history.” Grrr.
Also, a lot of things people think are emergencies AREN’T. My BFF said “butbutbut my daughter was born with the cord around her neck! What would a midwife do?!” I looked at her deadpan and said “stick a finger under and loop it over if it’s loose enough. You know, like your doctor did.”
She felt stupid then and laughed and stopped bugging me. 😛
lemongrass January 5, 2013, 2:48 pm
Which province are you in? I’m in BC and from what I’ve seen from nurses/other medical professionals midwives are pretty respected, which I love. I know it’s not the same in other provinces though. When people say that home birth’s aren’t as safe I ask them which studies they looked at that told them that. Usually it’s just being misinformed and guessing that midwives aren’t as qualified as they are. They can see when an issue MIGHT come up and transfer just in case. They bring oxytocin for postpartum haemorrhaging and other uses, they do stitches, etc.
If you are going to tell me that something is unsafe at LEAST be informed first and don’t just make sweeping assumptions.
bittergaymark January 5, 2013, 7:54 pm
Um, for somebody who has had four kids, you seem curiously ill informed about the many things that can and sometimes do go wrong… Naive would be putting it mildly.