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Disaster in Afghanistan

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  • #1096752 Reply
    ele4phant
    Guest

    While it’s clear we never should have gone in, or at the very least, should have gone in with the very clear focus of trying to find Bin Laden and not trying to engage in “nation building”, I will grant that at the time, we had undergone the first attack on American soil in over 50 years, and there was clear evidence that the mastermind of that attack was hiding there.

    So, there was reason to go in (compared to Iraq where Bush and Cheney made shit up to justify it), so I can’t fault politicians for making that decision to go at that time. Obv, should have stayed very narrow in focus and duration.

    And yes, Biden absolutely has bungeled the withdrawl, but again, we never should’ve been there for two decades. There were three previous adminstrations that passed the buck onto the next.

    My younger brother served in Afghanistan back in 2010. It just feels like a slap in the face that he risked his life, he lost friends, and he dealt with PTSD as so many young soldiers did. For nothing. To say nothing of the massive tramua and death inflicted on the Afghani people the past two decades.

    Just…such as waste all around.

    #1096754 Reply
    LisforLeslie
    Guest

    Yes, a total and complete waste and I agree that as soon as the former guy made the deal, the State Department should have been processing visas. But that state department was completely compromised. Biden should have had Blanken working on that as soon as he was confirmed.

    Vets will need help for the next 40-50+ years, so even domestically, it’s a problem we will have to manage for quite some time.

    #1096756 Reply
    quark
    Guest

    My one thought is they wanted to get out by 9/11, which is a completely arbitrary date (arbitrary to the withdrawal, not to what it means for this nation).
    We could’ve evacuated people. We could’ve evacuated troops. We will never live the shame down.

    #1096757 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    They should just figure out right now how to get everyone to safety… TO the airport, then OUT of the airport, NOW, and worry about the paperwork later. This is not the time for beaurocratic bullshit. There are troops nearby. Bring them in, get people out. I’d adopt a kid just to keep her from being a child bride.

    #1096759 Reply
    Bittergaymark
    Guest

    This is what happens when you elect dumb people. Decade after decade… Seriously! Other than Obama, every damn President in my lifetime has proven clueless and utterly inept at the job.

    Nixon (enough said)
    Ford
    Carter (he’s been a great former President. Strangely.)
    Reagan. (Literally demented)
    Bush. (So bland. Who even remembers him?)
    Clinton (such an abusive manwhore he saddled us with….)
    W. (9/11 and everything that followed was due to his asministration. They all should be long dead from war crime hangings)
    Obame (NOT on this List. Just named here for reference.)
    Trump. (Where to start)
    And now Biden. (A one term President with no viable successor. None.)

    🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

    All of these fools have brought us to where we are today. It’s fuckimg embarrassing.

    #1096760 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    Other than Trump, and not sure about Reagan, these are smart people. They may have done a lot of things you don’t agree with, but they as people are not dumb or inept.

    #1096762 Reply
    ele4phant
    Guest

    I think it speaks more to a hubris than stupidity, that we think we can “fix” things in nations and cultures that are very different than ours. And it’s not a uniquely American thing – see the mess the Brits made of the Middle East when they decided to divvy it up all willy-nilly.

    Or the state of many former European ruled African nations.

    And specific to Afghanistan, that poor country has been overrun by invaders and occupiers since the time of Genghis Khan.

    #1096764 Reply
    ele4phant
    Guest

    Also, whether they are dumb or prideful or whatever, none of this presidents did it alone. They were surrounded both by other elected officials and appointees but also career bureaucrats that were considered experts in their specific domains.

    These mistakes do not belong to any one President. It was a huge systematic failure across time and parties.

    #1096766 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    Also our military made a bunch of assessments about how soon the Afghan “government” would fall. Not sure if Biden was supposed to know better than the military about the timing?

    #1096767 Reply
    Ange
    Guest

    It truly is hubris to think you can go into an area called ‘The Graveyard of Empires’ and think you’ll make any sort of significant difference, especially when you’ve spent a fair bit of time shadily supplying weapons to the people you’re now trying to defeat.

    That said while it is sad that Afghan forces withdrew they were also dealt a crushing blow by American negotiations strong arming them into releasing thousands of known terrorists and essentially striking deals with the Taliban that anyone with a shred of sense could see wouldn’t be honoured. Then America withdrew and left them to deal with the fallout, it’s disgusting. And while Trump negotiated a lof of this mess Biden was the one pretending withdrawal wouldn’t mean an immediate collapse of Afghanistan despite attacks and general unrest escalating during the entire negotiation period.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

    #1096769 Reply
    ele4phant
    Guest

    Yes, Biden is neither immune nor alone from making mistakes here.

    #1096770 Reply
    Bittergaymark
    Guest

    W. was so NOT smart. Like at all.

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