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Dear Wendy

Hello all from Robert

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  • #1098040 Reply
    Avatar photoTheLadyE

    You have a point, Kate. It would have to be worded very smoothly and well. Something like “I’m ‘old-fashioned’ and believe in getting to know someone well before being physical.” I can see reading that and – IF everything else went well, huge point there – giving a man longer to be physical than I would if I didn’t know. That, or he should make his intentions/expectations known early. The alternative is that the woman thinks he’s just not that into her, like what happened with the woman he talked about earlier.

    It’s difficult because that will, for sure, narrow down the options, but it’s arguable that it will “waste” less of Robert’s time doing that anyway…?

    That being said, you’re right in that it’s not the reason he’s not getting second dates.

    If it helps, Robert, while there are many issues to address, honestly your experience isn’t unique. I am 10 years younger than you and I’ve been on hundreds of first dates. Many of us have. Heck, I went out with a guy a few weeks ago in which we had two incredible, long dates where we talked for like 7 hours at a time, had (what I thought was) incredible chemistry and connection – and then he flaked on me and said he wasn’t feeling it, and deleted his dating profile. Did it suck? Yes! I was pretty disappointed. But it’s the way dating is, and you just keep getting gutter balls until you get the strike…or y’know, insert sports metaphor here.

    Also wanted to add: I agree that if a man says he is an entrepreneur and has his own business but what he really does is drive for UberEats, etc., I’m going to take that as lying and be suspicious right off the bat. You can spin what you do and the positives of it in such a way that it’s not disingenuous. I know plenty of people who are working in the gig economy right now, and as long as you’re working and can pay your bills (and don’t live with your parents), that should be plenty for a woman, at least in the early stages of dating.

    #1098048 Reply

    I shaded Robert pages back for the gig work/spinning it as working for himself instead of “the man.”

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with gig work. But you definitely shouldn’t say you own your own business and actually be delivering food for grub hub, Uber eats or doordash.

    #1098056 Reply
    Avatar photoCopa

    I think it’s fine to put on a profile if Robert felt compelled to do so. For the right women who share his values, it wouldn’t be a red flag. Most women who don’t share those values will still think it’s odd even if he waited until they’d met in person to bring it up. I did see some profiles when I was on the app that were very candid about who they were and what they wanted and I did appreciated knowing off the bat when something wouldn’t be okay with me. It limits your own first date candidates, but narrows in on the people who may be the better fit.

    A friend of mine and her now-husband met on OKCupid and apparently they didn’t even kiss for a solid 4-5 months. It blew my mind when they shared this because like many of you, I used to assume that if we hadn’t kissed by, like, date three that the guy wasn’t romantically interested.

    #1098067 Reply

    The timing of being physically intimate is a red herring. That was what, quite a few years ago? There could be hundreds of reasons the couple of woman it happened with didn’t want to continue dating. Further, it has nothing to do with why Robert isn’t getting a second date now or for the past few years. We’ve all speculated why Robert can’t seem to get a date, but really, nothing is going to change unless he does serious work and actually WANTS to do the serious work on himself.

    #1099641 Reply


    if a man is not interested in kissing me by the 3rd date, I assume he is not interested romantically. (And I think I’m generous!) My last two exes kissed me on the first or second date


    I used to assume that if we hadn’t kissed by, like, date three that the guy wasn’t romantically interested.

    Wow. Those two comments blew me away. I’m speechless on that one.

    I’ve actually came in here a couple of times to respond, but I had trouble gathering my thoughts on that one. Still do, to be honest, so if I jump around in this post, that’s why.

    I have encountered a few, and I emphasize a few, women over the years, who indicated this, but because it was just a few, I thought those were the outliers and the fast movers. It literally wasn’t until now, literally this last round of posts, that this is the norm.

    Sure, I’ve seen quick kisses in TV movies. As romantic as they are, they have to speed up the story to fit into, what, 1:40 after commercials are accounted for.

    The first kiss has always represented something deep and meaningful to me, even going back many years before my first ever kiss. It always seemed like simple logic to me to get to know someone on a deep level, then kiss and get deeply physical. Not things like holding hands or arms around each other, etc., that I’ve done on the first couple of dates.

    I just can’t kiss that quickly. Wow. The thought of that… I just have no words. I genuinely miss kissing, but because it’s a symbol to me of something deep. How is depth like that possible by the 3rd date? AM I slow on that part of it, as well?


    If you’re genuinely just waiting for a deeper connection before you get physical it’s worth being upfront about that early on.

    It wasn’t that I was “waiting”, I literally acted in accordance with what I thought was the logical flow of things.


    If you’re genuinely just waiting for a deeper connection before you get physical it’s worth being upfront about that early on.

    Many multiple massive miscommunications over decades. I literally had no idea there was anything to talk about.


    But… you do date a woman for 3 months, apparently with no explanation of why nothing physical is happening. She left, because she was frustrated. Did you give her any reason for why you were so slow with the physical?

    I had no clue that I was slow.

    Why it takes so long for even a kiss

    To me, it’s not “even” a kiss. I don’t like that adjective. A first kiss from me is an expression of deep attraction. After the first one, it can mean either physical or deep. A first kiss is sort of like my way of telling her that I think I know her well enough that I want to take our relationship to the next level. It says that I want her to be my exclusive girlfriend, I guess you could say.

    Do you let her know how you feel about her during this time?

    Well, I kept wanting to do go on dates to begin with. If I am not interested, then I would not want to go out with her. I am affectionate on a low level, but on a level that I always thought to be appropriate so as not to come on too strong, but evidently not strong enough.


    A friend of mine and her now-husband met on OKCupid and apparently they didn’t even kiss for a solid 4-5 months.

    Okay…well, I would likely not be waiting that long, though in their defense there’s nothing wrong with that, either. The fact that they really got o know each other is a good indication that their marriage will be successful.


    If you don’t talk about why you’re doing something (or not doing something in this case) then women are going to assume the worst.

    In my 20s, and even into my early 30s, with the exception of my ex girlfriend, it seems as though I couldn’t get past 2-3 months. As soon as I start to feel something deep enough to pursue something more physical, she would lose interest, and I never get the chance. I wish I’d known all about this then.

    I did some reading on demisexuality, and I’m not sure that I am quite that, either. There is another classification of sorts, where I think I fit, actually, that is not quite demisexual, who gets the urges and impulses, but cannot act on them until there is a deeper connection. I’ll go back to my example of the pretty, well-dressed lady I see passing by on the street. Am I aroused? Well, yes, I have to be honest. I can be, also, in the first few dates of seeing someone, but I just cannot be that casual with kissing. Physical without something deeper behind it??? I don’t get it. I can’t do it. A kiss is not a handshake.

    To me, there is nothing unique about the physical aspect of a relationship. I’ve always started with being able to carry on a conversation and enjoying doing things together, then eventually caring about each other as people, and if we’re enjoying each other, then get physical because there is something deeper.

    No wonder nothing else matters, qualities about the person. They just want that kiss the fastest way possible. I’m trying to share my life with someone of quality, and they’re only looking to get kissed.

    I do have to ask, before I go — I mean this in all seriousness — if that’s the case, then what is the point in profiles and descriptions?

    #1099645 Reply

    “No wonder nothing else matters, qualities about the person. They just want that kiss the fastest way possible. I’m trying to share my life with someone of quality, and they’re only looking to get kissed.”

    Dude. Duuuuuuuuude. That is not it at all. How can you run face first into the point and then miss it entirely? You’re not some amazing piece of man meat they just want to use to get their jollies, they want to establish a connection and if it’s good feel like it’s reciprocated. I’ve always tried to be gentler with you than others but oh my god.

    #1099648 Reply

    Wow, Robert.

    The point of profiles is so that you can meet someone online who you might like to see offline. That’s literally it. People used to go to bars or church or get introduced by their friends, but that only exposed you to a small pool of people. Online profiles expose you to a huge pool of people you wouldn’t otherwise meet. Duh.

    And yes, most people either feel like they want to kiss a person within the first few dates, or they realize within a few dates that there’s not sufficient attraction and it’s time to move on. We’ve said this hundreds of times so I’m not sure why it’s blowing your mind right now. And honestly, if a woman likes you, she will stick around after more than a few dates. See my next post. They’re not cutting things off at 3 dates if they’re enjoying your company but you haven’t kissed them yet.

    That is the norm. You are not in the norm with needing to wait for some deep connection before a kiss. But is this even relevant now, at age 48? You’re not making it to a first date most of the time, right? And if you do, you’re not making it to a second. So maybe back up and focus on what is going wrong during the messaging stage or on the actual first date. Trust me, it’s not because you’re not kissing women on a first date that they don’t want to go out again.

    And finally, we could all have done without hearing about guys being aroused when they see us on the street going about our business. Bleh.

    #1099649 Reply

    Oh, one more thing: those women who lost interest within 3 months? For heaven’s sake, they stuck with you LONG after that 3 date window that most people want to kiss or get off the pot. They gave you many many chances. But nothing physical happened, AND they weren’t feeling like they wanted to wait around. The chemistry was not there for them. It’s actually quite common for relationships to end at the 2-3 month mark. You’ve dated long enough to get to know the person pretty well, and you have the info you need to conclude there’s a future or there isn’t. No one needs to stick around longer than 3 months to know if it’s worth it or not.

    #1099651 Reply

    It is so telling that, instead of saying, oh wow, let me ask some questions here to try to better understand where women are coming from, your response is always to go back to, well, this is how *I* am, and the women must be like *this*. You’re only capable of seeing your own viewpoint and jumping to conclusions about others. Like when told that women feel unsafe, you dismissed it with, well, I would never do anything to make a woman feel unsafe, and anyway there are cameras everywhere. You had no interest whatsoever in understanding the very valid reasons women may feel unsafe, and what you could do to make them comfortable.

    #1099652 Reply

    Every time Robert pops back into this thread…


    #1099653 Reply

    Groundhog Day.

    So I’ll say it again, you are not getting dates because you’re rigid, myopic, not transparent (about your job, what you want), and don’t make women feel seen.

    #1099654 Reply

    “No wonder nothing else matters, qualities about the person. They just want that kiss the fastest way possible. I’m trying to share my life with someone of quality, and they’re only looking to get kissed.”

    When I was single it was exhausting to take public transit. So many women hungry for smooching.

    Every single discussion here is the same thing, people wasting their time trying to explain to Robert what women want and Robert saying that their preferences are garbage.

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