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Hello all from Robert

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  • #1090288 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    There’s a lot to unpack here. I can only comment on some of it.

    First, there’s some angry, violent language that you may not even be aware of, but it jumps off the page at me, a woman. Ignorant, infuriating, kicked aside, thrown away… These words do reflect the truth of how you feel about dating, and yes, people pick up on it.

    Next, women don’t have to feel a “spark” to want to go out with you again. Women will give you more than one chance even if there’s no spark, just to make sure. They have to *not feel negative* about you. They have to feel they would not have a *bad* time on a second date. I definitely didn’t feel like, “yes!” on my first date with my husband, but I went out with him again because I felt like I’d have a good enough time with him and he was pleasant and kind of fun. And we did really hit it off on the second date.

    Guys I didn’t go on a second date with, of course I felt they were a good human being, but I also felt I would not have a good time on a second date.

    You’re getting turned down because women feel they could not have a decent time with you on a date, or would even be unsafe. Again, that is not just because there was no spark, it is because something is actively negative and wrong. Please don’t ignore this and brush it off. It’s the truth. In your 20s you weren’t bitter and angry with a victim mentality, but you are now. That’s absolutely part of it. The way you talk about mechanics for example. That kind of anger at the world is coming across to your dates whether you know it or not.

    And dismissing someone because she’s very into a sport? My husband is so into rowing that I laughed at him on the first date. His job is in rowing. He has website and a podcast. He rows every day and races. He was wearing a USA shirt with oars. He has oars tattooed on his leg. He’s ridiculous. I never played a sport in my life. I’m unathletic. I don’t even watch sports. I literally do not care. Yet we have a soulmate connection.

    Your POV is very simplistic: If you want to share different things, it won’t work. Not true. Women “require” an instant spark, instant gratification. Not true. More likely they feel a gut intuition that something is off, and we listen to our guts because it literally saves our lives. Despite us regularly pointing this out, you dismiss and refuse to try to understand it.

    And don’t come back at me with, “but I don’t talk this way on dates.” You don’t have to. It’s going to be apparent in your energy. Is your therapist a woman? I kind of hope so. She would absolutely pick up on this stuff.

    #1090289 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    Like, you even directly state this yourself, that even if you don’t feel the spark, you would keep hanging out because you could have fun together.

    Let that sink in.

    Women are the same way. But you’re not connecting the dots here: that they DON’T think they could have fun with you. You assume they “require” an instant spark. That is not true.

    #1090290 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    Also, consider that you believe women are kicking you aside and throwing you away, but you believe that YOU are merely stepping aside, and doing what’s good for THEM. That’s telling.

    #1090292 Reply
    anonymousse
    Participant

    Robert, you say you aren’t treated as a human. How is a woman declining a second date or ghosting you dehumanizing you? And you also call you declining to see a woman, “stepping aside” so that she can find a more ideal partner. Why waste any more of her time, right?

    Stop framing yourself as a bitter victim of mean women and just reframe it in your mind as that they are stepping aside to let you find your ideal partner.

    And then let it go. If you do hear from them, great! If you don’t, it is nothing personal. You don’t seem to understand the abuse and harassment most women face on dating sites and apps. That is why they ghost you. That is what we keep bringing up, and you don’t respond to. You aren’t considering how it feels to be a single woman subject to dick pics, degrading insults, threats, etc. Can you see how ghosting you is self protection for themselves?

    Ghosting is a accepted way of declining a second date is 2021. No one owes you an explanation, Robert. And I don’t think most of the women you’ve turned down probably wanted a list of reasons they weren’t acceptable to you.

    #1090294 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    Right, I was thinking too that they probably don’t want or need to hear the specific deal-breaker. I can only think of one instance where I was interested in knowing why a guy didn’t want another date. He said it was because he really wanted kids and I didn’t. Maybe that was the real reason, maybe not. But unless the woman is actually reaching out to you and suggesting another date, and you don’t want one, don’t contact her to give her an explanation. She doesn’t want it. And a polite no thank you is totally sufficient.

    #1090295 Reply
    anonymousse
    Participant

    I agree that your violent language stood out. Women have to look for red flags for violence and abuse, Robert. Your anger and the bitter tirade about the mechanic are big red flags.

    #1090297 Reply
    ktfran
    Participant

    I admit, I had a hard time reading what you wrote Robert. It did come across as angry. It seems you view woman as a means to an end or an object to be taken care of. I’ll echo a few things Kate and Anonymousse said and add a little.

    1. You make your dates sound transactional. Like, you must ask or accomplish this list of things to see if the woman you’re on a date with will check off some (or most) of your boxes. First dates should be light and fun.

    2. After a first date, you absolutely do not need to let a woman know why there won’t be a second. You telling them makes you sound extremely self important. It was one date. Minimal time was invested. I assure you, they’re fine.

    3. Enough with this list!! Even a shortened one. I did make a list with my therapist long ago. There were about 7 or 8 items and they were all centered around the core of who a person was with the exception of good humor, which I feel is a trait. Others were must be family oriented. Even though I didn’t want children, I wanted a person who liked to do things together as a family. Must be a kind human being (prior I had dated kind of a dick). Must be ok with my independence. I can’t remember the rest. Fyi. There was nothing about looks or occupation or specific interest. In fact, my husband, who made me laugh so hard on our second date that my face hurt is decidedly not my “type.”

    You have a lot to unpack in therapy.

    #1090302 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    Someone who’s never getting a second date shouldn’t have any checklist at all. Literally the only thing to be thinking about is, would I have a nice time with this person? Definitely get rid of any requirements like “must not be a huge sports fan” or “must love Christmas activities.” Those things are not even important. My dad is a big football fan, my mom doesn’t give a shit about sports, but they actually can be together and watch a game. I like to have some alone time, so it’s cool with me when my husband is out rowing. Someone could have never been jazzed about Christmas parades but still be happy to go to some of them with the right partner. You’re missing a huge set of truths about relationships. Hobbies and interests are only the surface stuff. A couple can have an extremely strong connection and make each other a priority even if they don’t have shared pasttimes. You are operating only on a very superficial surface level, and that’s another thing women are sensing about you.

    #1090307 Reply
    LisforLeslie
    Guest

    Are you getting turned down or are you getting ghosted? Is one more preferable to you? If you’re getting frustrated with being ghosted, I get it. The women may be immature but… Louis C.K. has a joke that men fear women laughing at them, women fear men killing them. This is true and it is scary.

    Now, I’m not saying that you’re a serial killer, but you can find dozens (if not hundreds) of examples of men being absolutely terrifying if women don’t respond, let alone give them a reason why they aren’t interested. Go on reddit and take a look at the niceguys subreddit. Some men, if they don’t receive a response within minutes start name calling, slut shaming, and threaten violence. Please understand that if women are ghosting you, it’s likely they don’t expect such behavior from you but also don’t feel like taking the chance. Because “nice” guys do 180’s all the time and your lack of empathy for what women want / do not want is a little concerning.

    Lastly, if every woman is either mutually agreeing there is no chemistry or not giving you a second date, then the common variable is you. Either you’re picking the wrong dating candidates or you are doing something really off putting during your dates.

    #1090308 Reply
    Kate
    Keymaster

    It’s also frankly not polite to give someone a breakdown of exactly why you didn’t feel it with them. Would it be nice or advisable for me to explain to a guy, “I just couldn’t get past your goofy face and be attracted to you even though I really wanted to,” or “You seemed bitter and weird that I told you I work at a company where you interviewed but didn’t get hired,” or “the way you spoke about your ex creeped me out,” or “it’s super sus that you tried to invite me over to your place after one date, claiming your daughter is at a slumber party?”

    Don’t even answer that, Robert. It’s not.

    #1090311 Reply
    ktfran
    Participant

    I didn’t do a lot of on-line dating but I distinctly remember two instances where I got on well enough with the gentleman during the date and considered a second. We even talked about a second date. After I was home and thought about it some more, I decided that no, I didn’t want a second date. Each for different reasons, but they were my reasons. When they texted, I did the nice thing, replied and said no. Both of them texted back nasty things. I learned two things. 1. Ghosting is better then saying anything. Why are they calling me a bitch because I wasn’t interested in a second date? 2. My after-date assessment was spot on and I’m glad I didn’t go on a second date.

    And I had maybe only gone on a total of 5 different dates from on-line dating. If two out of five men were like that, I can’t imagine how it is for women who go on more. YIKES!

    #1090312 Reply
    Peggy
    Guest

    Hi Robert. It still seems to me to boil down to this: You treat dates more like interviews, for the “job” of being your girlfriend. You also said, you are still interested in going out again, even if “we/she /you don’t feel the spark, but had a pleasant enough time”. But dating is not looking for a “friend”. So, if there is not much in the compatibitilty and interaction on the date, to possibly/maybe create a spark, most people move on.

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