Hello all from Robert

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    Phoebe
    July 20, 2021 at 9:03 am #1095291

    I follow this thread with a mix of interest and frustration. Robert reminds me of a FB friend I have. He frequently posts asking for advice but never accepts any solutions as viable. He always has an argument for why they’re wrong, wouldn’t work, or aren’t worth considering. Then he continues to post about how he wants to improve his situation.

    Robert, why ask for advice if you won’t consider taking it? You seem absolutely convinced your way is correct despite being told otherwise over and over. What you’re doing isn’t really working. Why not consider a different point of view?

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    July 20, 2021 at 9:31 am #1095294

    “I will say that I never have been the “flirty” type. That other post brought up that thought, wondering if something I’m *not* doing might be an issue.”

    No, Robert, it’s not anything you’re *not* doing. That’s not the issue. I can tell you your issues. I’ve been telling you your issues. And I’ve also told you that you need to work with a therapist to overcome those issues. Nothing we, this community, or a date will tell you can change the outcome you seek.

    Here are but a few:
    1. You’re stuck in a 1950s fantasy. Example: You want a beautiful, late 20-soemthing or early 30-something woman with long hair to bear your children so you can have picture perfect holiday outings. Life is messy. This is not life.

    2. You’re too stringent. Example A: Everything thing we’ve been telling you and you refuse to acknowledge, instead telling us why we’re wrong and you’re right. Example B: You refuse to update your way of communication to this century. Women don’t want someone who doesn’t appropriately use technology. Example C: You explained your dating semantics to @Copa explaining why, again, you’re right. First meet / first date… basically the same thing. Geesh.

    3. You think the women you date owe you. They don’t owe you an explanation. of why they don’t want to go on a second date. Full Stop.

    4. You haven’t had a relationship in years and you no longer have friends. It’s likely because you’re too set in your ways to actually be a good friend or partner. See item #2. HUGE RED FLAG.

    You are doing something to turn people off. It’s something deep within you. You need a therapist to work through it.

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    Peggy
    July 20, 2021 at 9:59 am #1095299

    Yup. Your attitude is not getting better. You say in one breath that you are learning from us and improving, but you still constantly push back and argue over little inconsequential details or aspects of something. You seem incredibly rigid and stubborn. The bus thing makes you sound cheap, unable to deal with typical/normal aspects of life and just plain weird. A woman may feel sorry for you when you explain the bus taking and the reasons, but she likely will not feel an attraction. I am losing hope for you ever making a “match”. Please get help now to unpack all your issues. It could take years.
    The person who said all of us seem to be wasting our time trying to help could be right. You have made very little progress.

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    July 20, 2021 at 10:20 am #1095301

    In a nutshell, your problem is “Robert’s rules for how everything should be,” and that’s even why you ended your last relationship: You thought she should be a certain way – more ambitious. You don’t adapt to people or things or new information, you just keep going back to what you think. A lot of it is way outdated or just plain wrong, but you’re clinging to it, why? A therapist can help you figure that out.

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    July 20, 2021 at 10:41 am #1095302

    If you dedicated as much time to being in therapy as you do to “working on getting into therapy,” you’d have made progress by now.

    Also, please stop asking women you have a business relationship with to speculate why you don’t get second dates. It’s bad enough that you keep asking your dates.

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    July 20, 2021 at 10:56 am #1095305

    You’re seriously spending money on a weight loss coach right now, but not therapy!?!?

    You’re wasting all the time you might have left meeting a person you could connect with focusing on superficial shit that is not going to address the deep, deep issues you have making and keeping relationships with other people.

    And yeah, your weight loss coach telling you that you are intense-to me, means you are probably scary, Robert! She’s trying to keep you as a client and was being honest but that’s eye opening feedback. Intense…I think we all know is an understatement. Stop asking her for her opinion on why women won’t date you. I don’t think you realize how inappropriate even that is. Stop asking women what’s wrong with you and see a therapist.

    And I agree, you totally act like you’re not interested if you’d prefer to take the public bus home than get a ride home from a pleasant date. Jeez! I’m surprised she offered you that ride in the first place, but you whiffed it.

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    July 20, 2021 at 11:03 am #1095308

    I love how you argue with us about how people enjoy things and people but how you can only enjoy things you like, no matter who you’re with.

    That’s a bullshit imaginary scenario you’ve imagined, not experienced while many of us here have said the opposing thing. Like Kate married an athlete of a sport she’s literally not interested in at all and they still have a fulfilling life. My husband plays the guitar and I hate hearing people practice the same songs over and over, but guess what- I still love him playing the guitar and our life together. He practices on a different floor so as not to annoy me. It’s not a big deal breaker. You are arguing with real people with real lives and relationships about what real relationships are like.

    Stop writing in and see a therapist.

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    July 20, 2021 at 11:05 am #1095310

    Robert, I know this can all feel like we’re “piling on”, but you have some of the longest threads on the site. People are here trying to help.

    It feels a little like conversations are something you feel you need to “win.” Part of this comes from the combativeness here, and also due to clues like your weight loss coach saying you’re “intense.” Conversations with someone who always needs to win the conversation are tiring. If you’re doing this on dates, it will definitely be a turnoff.

    Conversations are a collaboration, not a competition. Maybe the lessons of improv will be helpful here. Improv works off the concept of “yes and” when interacting with the other artists. I feel like you may be doing a lot of “no, actually …” when dealing with your dates. (The one who offered you a ride, but you “no, actually I’ll take the bus back” being a piece of evidence.)

    “Yes and” means you don’t come in and completely negate what the person before you did. You take it and build upon it instead, but don’t just “no” it. That causes things to just stop. This doesn’t mean you just agree to everything anyone says, but you need to keep the flow going. If you just throw a “no” out there, it’s like hitting a wall. The flow of conversation just drops flat and there is effort to pick it up again. This effort is work. And nobody wants their dates (leisure activity) to be work.

    “One woman did tell me that I was a gentleman and a pleasant person to talk to, but she felt that I showed no interest in her on the first meet.”

    The “show no interest” part sounds a lot like whatever she talked about just got ignored rather than “yes and”-ed where you actually listen and follow up. It sounds like you may have taken the conversation and driven it where you wanted as soon as she stopped talking, rather than keeping it with her and showing that she interests you. (But, of course, going too far ends up in the “interrogation” land, which is also no fun. It really is a delicate dance.)

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    Allornone
    July 20, 2021 at 11:48 am #1095311

    This is a small point, but I think it should be addressed because it speaks to the larger issue of you not listening to others. You tried to brush off the “women don’t feel safe” issue because of the one girl that offered you a ride. And you mention cameras. Um, cameras aren’t quite the safety net you imagine them to be. There is literally camera footage of USC student Samantha Josephson getting into what she thought was her Uber but was instead a dude that raped and killed her. The cameras maybe helped catch him, but certainly didn’t save her life. So, once again, WOMEN DON’T FEEL SAFE. Even in situations where everything seems fine and innocent, we still need to be on guard. And a dude that puts off “intense” vibes is certainly going to keep that guard up. No offense.

    You’re not listening to anyone here. You think you are, but you still have an answer to everything and a whole well-not-in-my-experience air to your thinking. Here’s a clue- your experience sucks. That’s why you’re here. And I’m not judging that. I was in your position once too. Heck, I’m so socially awkward I had virtually no clue how other people outside of me thought and behaved. But i shut up, listened to and actually heard advice. I still have a lot of growing to do, but at least I understand that.

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    July 20, 2021 at 12:37 pm #1095314

    Also, please don’t compare your experience with that of a recent 29 year old woman writing in. Your experiences are nothing alike. You have had a problem connecting with men and women for years, decades, right? She’s had ten first dates that went nowhere.

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    Fyodor
    July 20, 2021 at 12:58 pm #1095315

    Yeah, the safety thing is an example of refusing to give the wants and needs of other people the same standing.

    Women: The women you date are worried about their safety and thus are not going to give you frank feedback and may be careful about meeting someone who seems angry and bitter.

    Robert: I cannot murder those women in specific heavily surveilled locations without appearing on grainy security camera footage so their concern is irrational and I need not account for their concerns in my dating approach and will instead continue to willfully freak them out.

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    TheLadyE
    July 20, 2021 at 3:43 pm #1095320

    “For example, a couple years ago I once went to an art museum exhibit on a first date – one I had been wanting to go see for weeks. I knew within 30 seconds of meeting him in person that we probably weren’t going to go out again.

    I like those little examples. If I may ask, as I am genuinely curious, what did you see immediately upon seeing him that did not come out during the phone conversation? It seems so dramatic and sudden to me, the way you described it, that there *has* to be some indication beforehand.”

    (I don’t know how to do the little insert quote thingie here, so I apologize if that doesn’t format correctly. Also I’m glad you like the examples; happy to give you some because I’ve had a ton, lol.)

    So in that circumstance, we hadn’t talked on the phone. We had sent long messages back and forth on a dating app for probably 2-3 weeks. And I guess I am talking about a “first meet” rather than a first date, but yes, it is semantics at this point. I go through more upfront in getting to know men than a lot of people (especially younger Millennials and Gen Z) do, but I don’t have to talk on the phone before I meet them. So yeah, I took a risk, but I figured why not – he can write well, he seems smart, how bad could it be? Yeah, no.

    I can’t pinpoint it either; I just knew within 30seconds-a minute that we weren’t going to vibe. We just didn’t have that connection in person.

    There’s so much of this that’s difficult to put into words, I’m finding.

    With the hobbies/interests thing: for me (women in general?) it is all about if you like the person you’re doing things with. I agree with you, Robert, that I used to not go to things/do things because I was single, and now if there’s something I want to do and I can’t find anyone to go with me I would much rather go alone. I’ve done everything alone from concerts, movies, restaurants, even traveling/vacations. So I applaud you in not letting that hold you back!

    My most recent boyfriend and I were so different in many of our interests, but just enough were the same that we could share time together – and then we could go off and do our own things.

    I say all this to say…you have to have the personality connection first, the “I want to spend time with this person no matter what we’re doing” first, and unfortunately – for most/all of us – that is very hard to find!

    If a weight loss coach makes you feel more confident about yourself, awesome! I do agree with others in saying a therapist would probably help even more with some of the issues you’re having, if it’s a question of how to allocate resources (money and time). But I get it.

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Hello all from Robert

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