- This topic has 237 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 3 months ago by Miss MJ.
“Women willing to date much older men can be very selective in the older men they choose to date.”
Kind of irrelevant, but the pairings I’ve witnessed firsthand with large age gaps, these people generally have some issues.
And okay, I get it, Robert had other things going on during the pandemic that made dating less important, but if ever there was a time to insist on talking by phone or Zoom before meeting IRL without the other person thinking it was an added hurdle to an already-annoying process, it was 2020.JunieJuly 21, 2021 at 1:39 pm #1095391
If I recall from Robert’s earlier posts, he is trying to establish his own business and works at jobs such as food delivery. Robert, have you ever worked more traditional jobs? Did you not like these jobs because your supervisors didn’t know what they were doing or you couldn’t get along with co-workers?
My point is, I think Robert has more than just a dating problem. I think he may have problems relating to others in general.
There’s a concept that’s been stuck in my head, from E’s example:
We had sent long messages back and forth on a dating app for probably 2-3 weeks
I can’t pinpoint it either; I just knew within 30seconds-a minute that we weren’t going to vibe. We just didn’t have that connection in person
Those two ideas are so diametrically opposed, that it is a little hard to grasp. It’s basically as if the only possible way that can happen is if the guy put up a false front in messaging, and was his real self upon meeting — yet E is not making any such suggestion.
For me, when something interests me about a woman in a profile, and we start messaging with that as common ground, unless something big about us is so different, or it turns out that that is the only thing we have in common, for example, then that thing, or those things, are always there, unless the other person has outright misrepresented herself.
The way E presented her example, the thing that interested her about the guy initially suddenly became totally irrelevant. That makes no sense to me.
If I may digress in a way, I remember a few times at speed dating events, I remember one woman who, haunted house were her about the #1 thing she enjoyed doing any time (like me with the Christmas lights). It is my #2 thing, behind Christmas lights. If one finds haunted houses (or any other thing, just using haunted houses as this specific example) fun, then they are fun for that person. Period. A few things people have suggested on here might indicate that a given interest is fun with some people and terrible with other people. Like me with Christmas lights, I enjoy Christmas lights, no matter what, regardless of the person. If another person enjoys something, even mildly, that I am avidly interested in, it just makes sense to me to do that thing with that other person and get to know them more.
One example the other way, is Kate with the rowing. She loves her husband dearly, but there is no way she could ever be interested in rowing herself. No matter what. Period.
It just seems only logical to me that, if a lifelong relationship can take place with no problem with the #1 interest completely missing, then two people can have some single fun dates around a similar major interest. That’s not to say that the two people are automatically the right match, but I’m not thinking like that certainly on the first few dates.
I’m not going to include quotes, but several have said about things not being definable, and that seems to be part of why I have trouble grasping the above concept. I remember I always was bored in computer classes when we had to make flowcharts when most of the class struggled, because my mind is wired to be logical and concrete. I had to take art appreciation and philosophy as required electives, and those were my hardest two classes, because they were completely abstract. I can grasp the existence of the concept, but finding the hidden meaning behind art is something I will never get.
If I may digress, there is a little parklet in my area, that has a large piece of art, that I cannot describe except, to me, it looks like someone dumped a load of steel beams there, and I find it an eyesore, to be honest. Yet, there is meaning behind it. It’s a concept that needs to be explored in therapy, obviously, The lack of a “connection” despite common interests — checking off the checkboxes, basically — is really too abstract a concept for me to grasp.
Another thing several of you mentioned, I’m not trying to “win” in our exchanges. The personality test I took years ago also indicated that I am also an inquisitor, by nature. I am not trying to “argue”, but when see things a certain way — I can be convinced, but I evaluate it first, and I just ask so that I can be convinced that I am wrong, if I am. I just use independent judgement, on anything I am learning.
So in that circumstance, we hadn’t talked on the phone
I know how some of you feel about the phone, but it just seems to me that E’s real meet was exponentially higher maintenance than a phone call. A phone call would have gotten her out of a lousy time, then she could have gone to the art exhibit herself and had the good time she said she would have had.
The last date I went on was also without a phone call, and I decided that would be the last time without a phone call. I wasted time, and $$$, for no purpose whatsoever. Since every woman is different, I gave her the option, and she said she would prefer the first date with an actual dinner, rather than a Starbucks first meet. I actually agreed, so that’s what we did. I basically gave her my time and $$$, and got nothing for it, not even a simple explanation as to what changed.
I know what you all are going to say about that, so please don’t repeat it, but the waste of time and money and emotions is why I am so disgusted right now.
On the weight loss coach, that is already paid for. I have struggled with a sugar addiction for years, even decades, and that’s the only way I’ve been able to get my weight off. I’m not going to lie, I like my improved appearance as a result of the weight loss, but my motivation is health. When my weight’s down my energy level skyrockets, and I’m able to do more in life.
The “intense” comment actually referred to my focus on losing weight. It made me a good client in the program, as I was super motivated to lose the weight, but perhaps not everyone was up for that in other areas of life.
I’m learning how much responsibility there is in caregiving. My father is not doing well, not sure how long he will be around, either. Covid is making things harder, as I spend a lot of time on the phone. I’ve had a stretch of not much happening with the car, so therapy is not a problem, but I never know when something might happen with my father.
(“But why don’t you like this thing that I like? Here are 20 reasons why everyone should like this thing that I like”) or (“Your preference for thing B over thing A is wrong and now I’ll explain to you why you’re wrong.”)
I have never, ever, not ever, thought someone was wrong for not enjoying an interest of mine, or for liking something that I have no interest in. I’m not sure how I came across like i did. And because I don’t feel that way, I’ve never accused anyone of being wrong, either.
For example, many many many years ago I worked in construction. I didn’t do any labor, but I put on my hardhat and went to a plywood office in the middle of a very large, very visible construction site in the middle of DC blocks from the White House. When socializing in DC the first (and very annoying) question anyone asks is “what do you do?”. I can not tell you how many times I’d tell people that I, a very young woman, work in construction and there was no follow up. Nothing. My answer was “wrong”. Specifically it was wrong because I could not be used as an asset (I know a person who does…) nor could not be used as a measuring stick (Well I work at…).
If that was me, I would not have thought less of you for that, just thought I’d mention. My first thought may have been, do you build homes…just my first image of construction, since my father was a homebuilder. Then you would have told me what you did, presumably, and the conversation would have went from there.
Just to share how I would have done that conversation.
Insisting on phone calls is high-maintenance /difficult. There is no need for that, and it’s not going to prevent you from finding out you have no physical attraction
This leads me to a question that might seem overly basic, but are you saying the “no connection” means no physical attraction? The word “physical” was unexpected, so it made me wonder.
I’m not saying that physical attraction isn’t a consideration for me, but I’d rather date a woman who is average, or even below average, in looks, over one who is drop dead gorgeous with whom I have little in common. Looks are nice, but I have never proceeded with someone just because she was “beautiful” without having some common ground.
Lady E’s point about not clicking with the guy, when she met up with him at the gallery, is very important here. She said she could not say exactly why, but she knew he was not going to be someone she was interested in spending more time with/getting to know
I should have brought this up earlier, but it just goes back to what I said, my mind sees that there are only two ways this could have happened, either something was not asked before meeting to find this out up front, or the guy misrepresented himself. That’s all I’m able to see. It’s the abstract stuff like this that my mind just isn’t wired for, not only in relationships but in other areas of life, too.
I remember one friend who had a similar interest in photography as me, but for different reasons. I take photographs to capture memories, a photograph of a festival, or a light display I like, etc., but he was more into the art of it, like a reflection of something off a puddle. I photograph that item to remember that item.
I think he’s said he’s giving all ages a shot now
I am. I am still open to younger, but I am open to older, too. I would still like to have kids, but I realized from being on here, that my reality might be, no kids with no life partner because I am focused only on someone who wants kids, or no kids with a life partner because I have opened up to someone who doesn’t want kids.
The women with whom I went on my last date, by the way, is 8 months older than me. I’ve also messaged with women as high as mid 50s.
Robert, have you ever worked more traditional jobs
I did, briefly, for one summer when I was 17. My father got me in at his construction company. They didn’t exactly need another full time laborer, but did need an extra hand, so i did a lot of the lighter duty work. I started my landscaping business 2 years after that, and that worked out well for me.
I’ll be honest, my original plan was to get a “job”, but I never figured out what was holding me back in my mind until my mid 30s when I took the personality test. Owning my own business, or at least being in executive level management, is where I belonged. When I see someone in a “traditional” job, I see a company who just needs a robot.
Now, before someone gets the wrong idea, I am not calling individual employees robots. It’s just the idea that corporate offices already have things worked out and needs someone else to do the work. It just doesn’t work for me if I cannot do something that needs to be done, that I am capable of doing, but I don’t only because I am not permitted. Just do it and forget the melodrama is how I work.
Cleopatra_30 said something in another thread, that I hope we can talk about:
I do my best to try and find some common ground with them, enough to feel confident that when I meet in person I have some good topics and ideas to chat about
That’s how I think. I used to do that before I came here, but learned form you on here that it was a turnoff because it is “interviewing”. Now, she’s suggesting that someone else do it.
TigerPaw357, on same above thread
Speaking for myself, I like phone chats in getting to learn about a potential date
I’ll let that comment stand on its own. Just thought it’d be relevant here.
The one huge thing you’re missing is physical chemistry. We don’t know until we meet someone in person whether we are actually attracted to them. There are undefinable things like mannerisms, their smell, their eyes, that you can only pick up on in person, and if the chemistry and attraction aren’t there – if we can’t imagine making out with them – it’s not going to work. Maybe we give it one more date to make sure, but then we move on. It doesn’t matter at that point if we have interests in common, we’re not looking for friends, we’re looking for a relationship, and we can’t have a relationship with someone we don’t have physical chemistry with. Sorry you don’t understand it but that’s the way it is. Don’t try to “logic” us out of it. You’re 100% wrong on this one.
This is why, IMO, phone calls are usually a waste. You can absolutely have a pleasant call and then be like, oh, no, in person. Even if you saw their pics.
Again, do not argue with me on this. Just understand this is how women’s minds and bodies work and there are important evolutionary reasons why.
Robert, you’re lacking some component that other people have that allows them to pick up on nuances, emotions, intuitive feelings, associations, gut responses, etc., about other people.
Your reaction to art is really interesting and kind of says it all. Have you *ever* seen a piece of art that made you feel something? Or made you curious to know what it means, or what was going on with the artist, or the person shown in the art? I was an art history minor, and this interests me.
I don’t know if this is part of something like autism that could be diagnosed, but just realize that you’re not operating like most people. How about instead of saying 10,009 times that you don’t understand it and it’s on us to argue you to seeing it differently, you just accept it?
When I took my first art history class, we went to a local museum and were supposed to just find a piece that spoke to us and write a short paper about it. I looked around and saw a bust of a guy who reminded me of the vice principal at my high school, who was a character. He was in charge of discipline, so I interacted with him a bit. And he seemed conflicted. Anyway, I saw something in the expression of this head in the museum that made me pick it. I researched the Emperor Diocletian, whose likeness this was, and learned about what kind of guy he was and what was going on in his life at the time this sculpture was made, and how that came across in how the artist represented him.
Question: Do you get that there’s no one, true, objective way for an artist to paint or sculpt someone? Even with a photo, there isn’t. It’s one moment in time. A piece of art actually captures their essence, their humanity. Does that make any sense to you? It should, if you think back to your old profile pics and how we instructed you to do the new ones. You’re the same person but the two sets of pics say totally different things about you.
And yes, it is super creepy and gross to say you “didn’t get anything” out of a date in exchange for your money. You don’t buy a second date. If you feel like you’re being scammed into paying for dinner, don’t fucking agree to dinner. If someone is insisting on you taking them to dinner and you’ve never even met, politely decline. You should always be suggesting a drink. If they say no, let’s do dinner, they’re an idiot or scammer. Just take a pass. A woman who’s honestly trying to meet a guy for a relationship isn’t going to nix your suggestion of a drink and insist on dinner.
If you’re getting scammed by women and mechanics on the regular, that’s on you.
Re: the knowing in 30-seconds thing
It’s hard to explain. It’s kind of like how two songs can be great. You can really enjoy the heck out of both of them. But, you can never put them in a playlist back to back.
Maybe their rhythm is just slightly off, maybe it’s a tone, maybe it’s a “mood” – it’s just hard to quantify. Sometimes people are just like that. Everything about them can seem great “on paper” but there is just something that doesn’t align when you put them together. (What people refer to when they say “chemistry”.)
Even if you’ve talked online or over the phone, and even if you’ve seen a photo; you might meet someone in person and there is something about them that triggers a faint association with some person from your past. Or they have a mannerism that just causes a viceral reaction. Or, they just have a different “vibe” than you do. (I’m sorry if that doesn’t make sense, but there really isn’t a quantifiable way to explain, it’s just something most people feel.)
It doesn’t mean the person is bad. When you’re doing a jigsaw puzzle, there’s nothing “wrong” with the hundreds of other pieces, they’re just not the one that fits the spot you’re looking for.ronSeptember 16, 2021 at 8:50 am #1097834
Everything Kate wrote is right on the money. You need to wrap your head around the notion that people and our modern world work the way they work and that you need to accept that and adapt to it, rather than continuing to tell yourself and argue with us that your logic insists that’s not the way it should be and it should change. It won’t change.
Chemistry is real. Like me, you are old enough to have grown up in a pre-internet world. Then, if you met a future date at a party, or bar, meeting, or event, the initial attraction was all chemistry. It didn’t even get to the point of assessing common world views and interests if that initial attraction wasn’t there. And, that chemistry/attraction doesn’t require that the other person be above average in attractive. It does require that the other person seem alive.
I don’t know if you are failing in these in-person meet-ups because you fail to convey an alert, interested in life and emotionally active liveliness or not. It is also very important to visually show interest in the woman you are meeting for the first time. You need to display mental openness, not rigidity. You need to be friendly and approachable. You need to actively listen, which includes reacting appropriately, to what she says. You should display a natural interest in learning more about her and what she thinks, just as the fun part of a cocktail party is meeting and learning about a person you are meeting for the first time. You should project that you are happy with yourself and your life, although looking to make it better by adding a gf.
I have learned that a compatible outlook on life is far more important than common interests. If you know from on-line contact that you share a common interest, that provides a topic to ease conversation. My wife and I share a hobby, but strangely it is not one that either of us participated in until about the tenth year of our marriage. Obviously, it isn’t what brought us together. Chemistry and shared values/worldview and liking each other as friends as well as lovers is what brought us together and kept us together.
If you meet a person with mutual chemistry and compatible world view, then you can look forward to sharing your different hobby passions with each other. Getting involved with something new is a good thing.
Even to your example about hiring, Robert: At companies and even big corporations, the hiring manager is looking for chemistry, and they’re looking for unique skills that can drive change. They are not just looking to stick any cog into a wheel. Personality and chemistry are important. Team fit. Cultural fit. Would I like to have dinner with them.
Not sure why you’re weighing in on this anyway, having never worked for “the man,” but yeah, your assessment is off.