Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

How do I properly communicate with women?

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  • This topic has 845 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 14 minutes ago by avatarGolfer.gal.
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  • #854869 Reply
    avatarFYI
    Guest

    Officially tired of this post. For real.

    #854882 Reply
    avatarRobert123
    Member

    I did get a new outfit today from target, as per your suggestions.

    Button-down:
    https://www.target.com/p/men-s-striped-slim-fit-long-sleeve-dress-button-down-shirt-goodfellow-co-153/-/A-54621281?preselect=54605251#lnk=sametab

    Black chinos:
    https://www.target.com/p/men-s-straight-fit-hennepin-chino-pants-goodfellow-co-153-black/-/A-53048475?preselect=52456052#lnk=sametab

    I also got a pair of Goodfellow black jeans.

    I was going to wear that shirt and those chinos to my next event on Friday.

    Is that outfit a good start? I’ll look at adding to this next week.

    Kate: I will be working on my profile Friday, hoping to finish up by Saturday. This week was especially bad busy, so that’s why I got a slow start. Plus, I added a few things to the list.

    Yes, I was in my 20s during the 1990s. Are you saying that the dress pants I am wearing are too dated, or dress pants period is a turn off to women?

    If a millennial thought you were super cute, you must look far younger than you actually are. Now, I am not sure why that guy would try to block your path, that seems a bit off, but otherwise seems like a compliment to me. I do see your point, though, you are married, so that can be a bit of an annoyance. Someone single and looking might see that differently.

    Lucidity: Point taken. I’m looking at things backwards. I guess I lost sight of things a little bit every year for so many years.

    Skyblossom: Not arguing with you here, but I do want to ask…maybe it’s just your word choice, but the way you describe it is like asking me to give up 80 to 90 % of my interest, going from 16 to 1 or 2. If that is the way you meant it, where is the flaw in my thinking? Isn’t compromise supposed to be somewhere in the middle? Like 50%?

    You used 26, that doesn’t mean 26 weekends, considering that the Christmas season is only 2 months. In a few cases, too, I saw two parades in the same day, one during the day and one at night.

    Yes, I can compromise; like i want to share my interests and traditions, she will want to share hers’ with me, too, and I am up for that.

    Again, maybe it’s the way you are saying things, or maybe I am reading things wrong, or maybe you are presenting things the way you are to make your point — you are coming through loud and clear, I get it, things will change, and I am accepting that — A situation where she enjoys *her* traditions exactly as she always did but that I have to severely limit mine isn’t going to work. Can you agree with *that*?

    Again, I am not arguing with you, just making a counterpoint, giving you the opportunity to point out where my thinking is still wrong.

    I actually built up my self-confidence by interacting with fellow shoppers at the grocery store and other places. not originally with the intention of trying to get a date, but dates have been gotten from random interactions. It occurred to me at some point that single and looking women shop in the same stores and patronize the same stores I do, and I do come face to face with them all the time without knowing. Breaking the ice is no longer a problem for me.

    There is definitely worlds of room to get better at my conversations. I cannot claim to be a master, I can only say that I am not scared to break the ice like I used to be.

    Some of your suggestions are things I am doing already, though you gave me a few additional ideas, too.

    Anonymousse: I am considering therapy. It’s obvious that my interactions have not been good, and I am getting a lot of good advice from this community, that seems to be turning things a little. I like to get to the point in general life, and I guess that transferred through into my dating approach. U used to be able to get dates (from online) with little difficulty, but I see that my interactions were different, too. I had less experience, was less aware of everything I wanted, but as I got more experience in dating and in life over time, I got a clearer picture of what I wanted, in detail, and so fell in to the interview style, unknowingly treating it like a task, and lost sight of the interactions that I used to do. I appreciate you and everyone else making me aware of this.

    K: I took those photographs at a park because it is a public place. I had no wedding or anywhere else to be, and I do want a couple of dressy photographs in my profile, to communicate that I like to dress that way for some dates, but I can accept that the style is out of date. I have no problem including some casual attire photographs, also. It’s also getting together with the second person, whether friend or someone hired, that is the hard part, but I will figure something out.

    Copa: Part of why my photos aren’t right is because I feel the pressure of the timer. I tried doing a more causal photoshoot with the self timer a few weeks ago, took about 10 photos, and even *I* didn’t like any of them.

    Vathena: I guess some of that goes back to the idea that I like to get things done. I get tired of searching when I don’t find a relationship or someone to date for a while, so I’d take a break and focus on other life goals that actually do get done, then go back to the sites and the apps.

    There’s a lot less to do in the winter, certainly not a lot of traditions. Valentine’s Day gets to me a little, but really the loneliness starts to seriously set in around Independence day, and the hole gradually gets bigger until after Christmas is over. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Peggy, Ange, MissMJ: Point taken. Posts read. SOme things to think about.

    #854893 Reply
    avatarKate
    Keymaster

    Is that outfit a good start? I’ll look at adding to this next week.

    ***Yes, great outfit. I like the Goodfellow brand.

    Kate: I will be working on my profile Friday, hoping to finish up by Saturday. This week was especially bad busy, so that’s why I got a slow start. Plus, I added a few things to the list.

    *** Yes, do it.

    Yes, I was in my 20s during the 1990s. Are you saying that the dress pants I am wearing are too dated, or dress pants period is a turn off to women?

    **** The outfits in your profile pics have an overall 90s vibe and not in a good way. It’s dated, tired, aging on you. We’ve all said that repeatedly. Dress pants look good with a full suit. If you’re not wearing a full suit, other options are better.

    If a millennial thought you were super cute, you must look far younger than you actually are.

    *** Probably, if you don’t look closely, but no matter how I look, people shouldn’t think they can stop me and comment on my looks or body.

    Now, I am not sure why that guy would try to block your path, that seems a bit off, but otherwise seems like a compliment to me.

    *** No, see, I don’t give a fuck what a random idiot thinks of me, so it’s not a compliment, it’s just annoying. Also kind of creepy. It was warm out (September still) and I was wearing cutoff jorts and a tank top. So it definitely felt like a body thing. Again, a quick honk from a truck like “hey, girl” is fine. Getting in my path and stopping me to try to have a conversation so that I have to talk to you or be rude? Not fine.

    I do see your point, though, you are married, so that can be a bit of an annoyance. Someone single and looking might see that differently.

    *** No, it’s not because I’m married, it’s because it’s rude and annoying to stop a woman going about her daily business and comment on her looks. If you need directions or a sandwich, sure, ask me.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by avatarKate.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by avatarKate.
    #854905 Reply
    avatarLisforLeslie
    Guest

    Dude – we are the same age. I am telling you, your clothing is behind the times. You have been shopping in the same stores for 20 years and you’ve been wondering why it’s harder and harder to find the clothes you like. You have to step up your style. I am not a millennial telling you how to get a woman in her 20’s.

    And there’s a “joke” – men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them. Stopping someone in the street and demanding that they talk to you is frightening. It’s not flattering. Catcalls are not flattering because they are already showing you that you are a piece of meat.

    If you start a conversation with a stranger in say, a bookstore, and she engages and doesn’t excuse herself, you can say “I’m enjoying this conversation, would you like to get coffee some time?” but you have to be smooth.

    Also – anytime time you do this and the person is working – it doesn’t count. That person is paid to be nice and considerate. Librarians, people in stores, waitresses, bartenders… their living is based off of customer service. If you’re the customer, they’re being nice so they keep their job. Unless they hand you their phone number, do not ask.

    #854916 Reply

    Robert, something about the way you approach women at dating events is not getting you matches. So cold approaching strangers going about their business is not going to go well. Many women are telling you not to do such a thing. It’s aggressive and for the most part, unwanted. There are ways to know if someone actually would want to start a conversation with you BUT you have to be really good at decoding body language, which I don’t think you are. Smile and say good morning and leave it basically at that, unless someone starts a convo with you.

    Please, for the love of god- update your profile. Ten pages ago there were a ton of recommendations and ideas. That is why you aren’t getting dates. You need a profile that tells women who you are. Google tips! Read back through this post. Speed dating is not working for you and I highly, highly doubt that anything anyone is telling you on this post is going to radically change whatever it is about you that isn’t attracting women at these events.

    Please stop considering it and make an appointment to go see a therapist. If you have insurance, you might get a discount on therapy if it’s not covered, a lot of therapists also use a sliding scale, or can work something out if it seems expensive. I honestly think the faster you do start therapy, the faster you are going to be able to meet someone and make a connection. It’s money well spent. It will save you more time in the long run, I promise you.

    The outfit you bought is fine but soclose to what you already had. It’s a good little baby step, I guess. What about shoes though?

    #854920 Reply
    avatarKate
    Keymaster

    Yes, shoes plus one other shirt so you have at least two outfits for your new photos.

    Get the new photos. Look around for local photographers that specialize in dating profile shoots. If necessary, even have your mom do it. The key is to get someone to take a ton of pics with the goal of getting 2 or 3 good ones where you look natural, unposed, relaxed, and friendly.

    Write the darn “about me” intro. 2 short paragraphs, maybe just one.

    Go on your health insurance web page and find a therapist near you.

    Join meetup. If you can’t think of a friend who could take profile pics or go to a parade with you, that’s a sign you’ve isolated yourself over time and need to do social things.

    Go to church if you’re a believer.

    Go to a gym to stay healthy and be around people.

    Go to 12-step meetings if you’re an addict.

    These are all things that adults do, that a lot of us have done, and that need to be done if you’re going to find love. Trust me, any woman who would want you to approach her is already on Match, so don’t waste your time with cold approaches or even speed dating.

    #854923 Reply

    Try a dark, small patterned button up that doesn’t look like you just left work or are a LDS missionary going door to door:

    https://www.target.com/p/men-s-printed-slim-fit-long-sleeve-dress-button-down-shirt-goodfellow-co-153-xavier-navy/-/A-54615129?preselect=54605217#lnk=sametab

    Even a flannel one:
    https://www.target.com/p/men-s-plaid-standard-fit-long-sleeve-flannel-button-down-shirt-goodfellow-co-153/-/A-54598047

    I didn’t link the Buffalo plaid for you to get that one, (I like some of the other plaids) but look at how that model is dressed. He looks good. Casual, but still nice. Ready to go to the pumpkin patch. Nice shoes. He looks put together not like a slob. Just small little things can make you look a little more stylish and younger.

    Even if you can’t find a local photographer (please try to!) to take literally just a few good, more casual photos of you, can you go out in public and ask someone to take a photo of you with your phone?

    #854926 Reply
    avatarKate
    Keymaster

    Target won’t load for me this morning, but absolutely, I want to go to a pumpkin patch or haunted house with a guy who’s dressed for that, as opposed to dressed for My Very First Office Job circa 1996. Plaid would be excellent.

    Edit: Yes! That outfit, in the Coastal Wave or Divine Blue plaid. With some shoes like the guy has on. Perfect for your profile or a fall date.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by avatarKate.
    #854937 Reply
    SkyblossomSkyblossom
    Participant

    If you have a partner you have to find a balance between the two of you in what you will do with your time. You can assume that her family will celebrate Thanksgiving and it would be rude of you to not be there. If you needed to travel to see her family for Thanksgiving you are giving up more than a day. If you don’t have to travel you will probably prepare some food to take and you will need to spend time the day or two before cooking and baking. If you hosted the Thanksgiving dinner you would spend time before the day cooking, baking and cleaning and decorating. The same for Christmas. Plus Christmas requires shopping for gifts and wrapping them on top of everything else. That takes time from both of you.

    Then you get into activities. You have 26 to do in only 8 weeks. That is literally taking all of your free time. If her main thing for Christmas is the usual shopping, decorating, baking and gift wrapping those aren’t so much fun activities as things that must be done and they are time consuming. You can either help or go do your own thing. If you aren’t helping you will be resented and your interests will be a large negative on the relationship. IF you end up in a relationship assume there will be far less free time.

    The free time you do have will need to be split. You can get in some of your things but she may have a few things she wants to do too. You can’t say it’s fair if I cut my 26 things down to 13 and you cut your two things down to one. In the 8 weeks leading up to Christmas you can expect to spend at least one of them decorating. At least one of them shopping and gift wrapping. At least one of them will be spent on thanksgiving. You are already down to five weekends and most people can’t get all their shopping down in one weekend. Think about having four free weekends in that eight week time frame. Your partner might want to relax on at least one of those weekends. Your schedule sounds exhausting and too much to try to add to the usual schedule that leads up to Christmas.

    #854943 Reply
    CopaCopa
    Participant

    Robert, I think it’s a mistake to think compromise always means 50/50. Especially in this context. Even if you went from 16 light shows and parades to eight, that’s still a LOT for many people if the expectation is to do them together. I wouldn’t have time for those activities on the average weeknight, nor would I want to do the same thing every weekend for all of November and December. I don’t think I’m in the minority. I think you’d need to go in with an open mind about what compromise would look like.

    #854944 Reply

    Robert, beyond the relationship stuff, there is so much more going on. That’s why I think therapy would be good for you. You’ve been without friends for awhile, right? You’ve been single for 15 years. Have you been trying to date that whole time? There’s also the all the surface stuff we’ve discussed. There’s a lot. I think the profile and the clothes are easy things to work on, but the bigger things you will need help with. More than a forum online can help you with.

    #854946 Reply
    avatarVathena
    Guest

    Yeah, I think it would be worth delving into your motivations for NEEDING to attend all these public holiday-themed events. I wonder what holidays were like for you as a kid and why you are so compulsively drawn to these (somewhat artificial) displays of magic/warmth/cheer. To the point that you will turn away from what could be a real, fulfilling connection with a person, if her enthusiasm for parades isn’t dialed up to 11. What Skyblossom said is sort of what I was getting at before – if you truly do want a wife and a family, you are going to have to adjust, and consider the needs of other people. Christmas will not be magical if your family is utterly exhausted. Light shows are not fun places for 4-year-olds up past their bedtimes and having screaming meltdowns, you know?

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