Dear Wendy
Dear Wendy

How do I properly communicate with women?

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  • #873555 Reply
    avatarPeggy
    Guest

    Hi Robert-you have “come a long way” but it is clear you are still confused about relationships and dating and struggling to connect,even with your new pictures and knowledge. You have built very high,thick walls it seems, and expect to scale them instantly when you spot the perfect woman on the other side. The comparision you use about goals, acheivement and success having to be 100% or “all or nothing” is a problem. People,dates, can not be goals to conquer with items to mark off on lists as they are discovered or accomplished.
    It really feels as though you have little clue as to how to form easy,healthy bonds with others-whether they be friends or woman you wish to date.
    I read a book by a dating coach-it was for women but had a section where men told her about meeting/dating a women they fell in love with. Many were along these lines: “I met her/took her out and she ordered this really stinky cheese appetiser. She enjoyed it so much,that she ordered another plate of it,and then a third one. Then,she tripped down some stairs and after that,stepped in some dog poop (accidentally) and got the stuff on the floor mat of my new car… Anyway,despite all that,I just really liked her.” The point is that liking and connection cannot be “listed”. You could actually meet someone that ticks every box you think you want and still have no chemistry.
    AND if you meet a woman you like and enjoy being with,superficial things or little incidents as described above will matter not. But you will never get there with your current anxiety and ridgidness. Therapy,therapy,therapy asap. I am hoping you can and will change your life and find happiness.

    #873556 Reply
    avatarMaltaKano
    Guest

    Yeah I’d love to see the convos.

    I will say, too, that some of this might just be the way online dating is. It’s not always something you’re doing wrong. The response/interest rate for men on dating platforms is FAR lower than that for women. Factoring in age and a little stiffness/awkwardness with chatting, and it’s super tough. So keep plugging away while you’re working on deeper stuff in therapy. Stop spending time parsing over each rejection and just keep messaging new prospects.

    #873559 Reply
    avatarFyodor
    Guest

    When I was single in 2005, I archived all of my chats in Gmail so I could keep track of everyone. If I have time to pull a few successful ones out and edit the PII, maybe I will post some here to give you a sense of what worked for me.

    #873560 Reply
    avatarFyodor
    Guest

    “Yet, I could have had 80% with someone who wanted kids. Now, I may only get 50% or 60%, without being a father”

    I wouldn’t think of it this way. Even if you met someone at 28 she wouldn’t be the same at 45 and you wouldn’t be the same. You might have gotten what seemed like 80 percent and ten years later have been at 0. I love my wife very much, but it’s an endless effort of change and adaptation. She’s not the same, I’m not the the same, and what each of us needs from a partner is not the same.

    #873563 Reply
    avatarNicole
    Guest

    Robert,

    I read this thread over the holiday season when it looked like it had died, and it was a wild ride for me. I’m glad you are back engaging with people on this forum.

    I’m in that demographic you want to target – youngISH (32), slim, advanced degree/well paying professional career, wants kids, long hair. I even love Christmas, although not to your extent. (and married, just to be clear)

    Regarding this question:

    “Do the “conventionally pretty” women really look for different things than someone average or below average? I would think that they want to be loved and respected just the same as an UNattractive women. Looks don’t affect how the MIND works.”

    Other commenters hit on the fact that such women have a lot of interest and thus are unlikely to settle for a guy much older than them, and I can anecdotally confirm that, but I wanted to go a step further.

    First, being loved and respected is a BARE MINIMUM in a relationship. Most people want to match on more than that. You have a list of things you are looking for, and it doesn’t include “I want her to love and respect me”, and I’m sure that you DO want that, but it’s just a given in a healthy relationship, so it doesn’t occur to you to list it. Women are the same way. Of course we want the basic respect, but we want you to have other characteristics we find attractive, too.

    You said looks don’t affect how the mind works. Maybe not, but your lifestyle definitely affects your looks. Many slim women, including myself, are not slim by genetic magic, but because we are active/spend a lot of time at the gym. Fit people who value fitness want to be with other people who value fitness. Please note: this is a shared VALUE and not a HOBBY. My husband is similarly active but does almost NONE of the same sports/exercise as me. I’m a runner/swimmer who does HIIT/crossfit and some yoga, and he’s a hockey player/climber who does weightlifting, rowing, and occasional yoga. It’s not that I need a partner who is at run group with me, I just need someone who is supportive of me waking up at 5 to do these things, and maybe more importantly, would model this behavior for future children.

    You haven’t mentioned any sort of physical activity you are into, which would probably be a turnoff to most active women, as well as the constant roadtripping in November/December. Holidays are unhealthy enough without being on the road, probably eating fast food all the time – I know that would drive me crazy. If you also value things like clear complexion, healthy hair, etc – there is some genetic component to all of these traits, but they are also correlated to lifestyle.

    I could go down your whole list and talk about each item, e.g. well educated women probably like to read and want a man who reads, but then this post would really be a novel.

    Basically – women are people who also have preferences, and if those preferences are well thought out, they are likely rooted in lifestyle. Why do you think you are the only one in this transaction with a preference for youth/looks/money/brains etc?

    #873566 Reply
    avatarKate
    Keymaster

    Those are some really good points, Nicole. Love and respect are table stakes, but a young, attractive, single woman wants a lot more than that and can afford to be selective. She can date guys in their 20s or early 30s who are also attractive and share the same lifestyle preferences. Literally no one who fits that demographic (20s, educated, successful in her own right, very pretty, wants kids and family) will date a guy in his mid-late 40s who’s not wealthy. NO ONE. I know this sounds harsh and mean at this point, but it’s true and needs to be accepted. There may be a woman in her 20s who would date a guy that old, but she’s not going to be pretty and successful and educated and a go-getter.

    #873567 Reply
    avataranonymousse
    Participant

    Make a Facebook profile. Search for your high school, college, old companies you’ve worked for, neighborhood you live in now. You can google ways to have your settings super locked down so that FB doesn’t own you.

    Learn how to text and get used to doing it.

    THERAPY. THERAPY. THERAPY.

    #873571 Reply
    avataranonymousse
    Participant

    I wrote about a long, angry rant about how ridiculous I think your requirements and excuses are but I feel it was too harsh.

    Robert, you need to see a therapist. Please stop everything else and make an appointment and keep going for at least six months.

    Even on the best day, you are full of red flags to a potential date.

    1. You don’t have social media. She can’t verify that you are who you are or that you have a social life and friends. That’s one red flag.

    2. You hate discussing your job.

    3. You seem to have few, if any friends.

    4. You don’t want to text.

    You’re so strict in what you think you want, and it’s holding you back. I’m not sure if you really even want anyone in your life because your so stubborn about things. We’ve been telling you to get yourself in therapy since this thread started, months ago. We’ve told you to join meetup and get involved in your community and volunteer or something. Meet people. Get used to actually talking and interacting with real, live humans.

    I also wrote this long thing about how I didn’t even like my husband when I first met him. He was not anything like what I thought I wanted. The point of that was to illustrate that the things you think you want and the things you actually need in a person are not going to be the same. You need to write that list of things “She must be” down and burn it. Say goodbye to it. Wish it well and flush the ashes down the toilet.

    The real woman you may one day meet and go on a date with does not need to like Christmas light shows, hallmark, fine dining restaurants, burger restaurants or dressing up. All she needs to like is you. That’s it. That’s enough to hold a relationship together, believe it or not. Shared goals and morals and dealbreakers will work themselves out later. All you need is mutual interest. She could be Jewish, vegan, a social drinker, who gets carsick on long drives and still 100% be the right woman for you. Please let the list go. It is a huge part of what’s holding you back.

    I hope you take this to heart and for god’s sake Robert, make an appointment with a therapist.

    #873732 Reply
    CopaCopa
    Participant

    So @Nicole said what I was going to say, but better. Robert, YOU yourself want more than just love and respect! Dozens of pages of this thread are dedicated to the laundry list of what you’re looking for beyond mutual love and respect. Why would you assume others are different? Love and respect are the bare minimum we all (hopefully) demand out of a partner, but it doesn’t mean we settle down with anyone who meets that baseline criteria if they’re not otherwise a good fit.

    Also, I think you’re doing yourself a huge disservice by thinking about dating in terms of percentages. You can’t quantify how close you are to an end goal in dating. I also found it frustrating, when I was single, that I could be so accomplished in my personal/professional life, but not be able to control the outcome in dating in that same way. So, I controlled what I could: I stopped dating against a checklist; I kept putting myself out there; I went on dates with an open mind; I gave second and third dates to men who were nice/cute but maybe not “my type.” I also made sure my life outside of dating was fulfilling so that, when I’d feel discouraged, it wasn’t that bad. I still had a great life.

    And thinking about your prospects so negatively — the “I could’ve had an 80% if I’d only done X years ago, now I’ll have to settle for a 50%” talk — is a mindset that’s going to keep you fixated on what your dates lack, not what they have to offer.

    I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but you can work through these mindsets in therapy…

    #873735 Reply
    avatarKate
    Keymaster

    I hope you’re not thinking/implying, Robert, that all women should just be satisfied with love and respect, and that they don’t or shouldn’t have a whole bunch of unique desires and attractions when it comes to a romantic partner.

    If you don’t see and understand women as individual people (which i suspect is true), it would explain why you don’t seem to get that women in their 20s don’t want to date men over 35 or 40. I think you’re respectful to women, but I don’t think you really know or understand women.

    #873746 Reply
    avatarVathena
    Guest

    I could be WAY WAY off here, but with all of the calculated/percentage thinking, along with the lack of any romantic connections or relationships in the past couple of decades, it does make me wonder whether Robert may be asexual. I would think that most of us are willing to look past minor “incompatibilities” in hobbies/interests for a person we are sexually attracted to. Robert, haven’t you ever sat across from someone on a first date, looked into her eyes, been dazzled by her smile, and thought, “HELL YEAH! Pants feelings!!!” I think most of us have been out with people who ultimately weren’t good matches for a host of reasons, but we tried to make a go of it because there was sexual chemistry. It seems like maybe you aren’t feeling that sort of attraction, if you are dismissing potential matches because of arbitrary criteria.

    #873747 Reply
    avataranonymousse
    Participant

    Pants feelings!

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