I asked my daughter on Thanksgiving why she didn’t tell me she’s no longer vegan

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  • This topic has 56 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 4 months, 2 weeks ago by That kind of daughter.
Viewing 12 posts - 37 through 48 (of 57 total)
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  • Lightningrod5
    November 26, 2023 at 9:58 am #1126829

    All,

    I will explain the Zoom Thanksgiving first. My wife and I are in the age range where COVID can be deadly for us. While we are all vaccinated, my wife, son and I continue to wear masks to all public places, outdoors or indoors. After moving out, our daughter told us she is no longer wearing a mask. We wouldn’t feel comfortable eating with her unmasked, so we proposed either we eat in separate rooms with doors closed and then congregate again in the family room while wearing masks, or Zoom. She took Zoom.

    Considering all your replies to me so far, I know this may gather ire responses. But it is something we feel quite strongly about and we don’t feel comfortable pushing this boundary when it involves our family’s health. At minimum, we will wear masks another two years until our son graduates from college so that is accomplished, and neither us or him get severely ill or worse until then. We got our daughter through school; we want to do the same for our son successfully and healthily.

    Regarding veganism, with all commenters saying it is not my “right” to know, I AGREE. I am talking about something beyond “rights.” I don’t say “transparency” with which she SHOULD tell me, but I would absolutely like her to. I want her to feel she can tell me anything. She does not have to do it as an independent adult, but why not share something so impactful with people that care about you?

    I don’t think I know how to explain my point more adequately. I feel some of you have decided on me being the bad, tyrannical dad, when that is far from the history of our interactions and definitely my intent.

    Reply
    Anonymousse
    November 26, 2023 at 10:29 am #1126830

    You are not reading, absorbing and trying to understand what any of us, including your daughter are saying. You are not easy to talk to. You grilled her during the dinner and she stood, exactly the same thing we all have. You are overbearing, too controlling and demanding.

    Yeah, if she trusted and felt comfortable with you, she would tell you things. But she doesn’t trust you to listen to her with an unbiased and open minded ear. She doesn’t feel comfortable expressing herself to you because you treat her this way.

    Take this comment section to your wife and discuss it and make an appointment with a therapist. You are pushing her away and will continue to do so until she wants nothing to do with you. You think this is hyperbole. I’m a 40 year old woman who has no relationship with parents and I beg off the holiday calls wpbecause they are awkward as hell. I’m trying to help you, everyone including your daughter IS BEING HONEST WITH YOU. But you refuse to hear it. Demanding over and over again that you’re nice and easy to talk to does not make it so.

    Therapy!

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    Anonymousse
    November 26, 2023 at 10:36 am #1126831

    I love how you assume we are what, anti maskers? because we don’t care that you think you are superior being vegan? No one cares because the detail doesn’t matter. Just as none of her diet is your business.

    Not to mention the way to get closer to someone is not to grill them about their lifestyle choices that you obviously disagree with! You antagonize her on zooms and wonder why she doesn’t want to tell you personal things? It’s not confusing at all to any thinking person.

    Just because she is your child doesn’t mean she’s your little dolly to play with for life. She is her own person. It’s really sad you can’t love and accept and enjoy her for who she is and get these stupid fixations on things you find disrespectful. Why would she want to spend time with you? Give me a reason you are fun to be with? You harass and antagonize her! Your wife checks her fridge for meat. You guys are unbelievable. I’m actually surprised she stayed on the zoom and didn’t hang up, I would have.

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    Anonymousse
    November 26, 2023 at 10:39 am #1126832

    Tell me about the side business and “pamphlets.” Please. How much were you paying her?

    Can you explain one topic of discussion, casual conversation you’ve had with her that hasn’t been you demeaning her own, personal adult choices?

    Reply
    Anonymousse
    November 26, 2023 at 10:42 am #1126833

    You have NOT made an environment where she “WOULD LIKE” to tell you things because you are so antagonistic.

    How can you not compute that? She told you. We’re all telling you. Your wife would, if she had a backbone left but I doubt she does. You’ve probably browbeat any dissenting opinions out of her.

    That is why you need therapy. If you want a real connection and relationship with your children, you need help now.

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    November 26, 2023 at 11:30 am #1126834

    Most of the people on this forum, at least those of us who have been here for a long while, are pro-masks. FYI. So that dig at us is completely wrong. I guess I can add judgmental to the list.

    We’re all telling you to back off and reflect on your part in this. You and your wife are pushing your daughter away. Instead of listening, you’re doubling down.

    That will not work out for you and your relationship with your daughter.

    Reply
    November 26, 2023 at 12:18 pm #1126835

    So, here’s the thing. When it comes to the things you’re daughter is not being straight-forward with you on: they are things you are doing that are from a big-picture view as morally right and correct. I think this is what you want to hear, and the truth is I don’t think you’re wrong. Yes, the world would be a better place if everyone were vegan. The pain and suffering we put on animals that we harvest for food and dairy is unconscionable, and most people have such a strong reaction against it because on some level they know. Your daughter probably feels the same way, but had chosen to no longer be vegan anyways.

    We could have eliminated COVID and would be a much healthier society of everyone wore masks all the time, and socially distanced year round. Your daughter knows this, and has decided to not mask anyways.

    People smoke even though they know it causes cancer. People watch TV for hours on end even though they know it would be better spent exercising. People buy electronics even though they know they were built with exploitive child labor.

    Everyone does this. We all carry some amount of cognitive dissonance through the world and actively do things we know are largely bad. I use social media even though I know it’s responsible for fucking up democracy and organizing hate groups. I eat dairy even though I know what animals go through to get us milk and cheese. I don’t wear masks in public anymore even though I know how effective it is.

    Why do we do these things? We all have a physical, financial, and psychological weight to bear, and we go through life coping as best we can. You HAVE to understand that your daughter is managing her life as best she can, and you can no longer pass judgement on how she chooses to live.

    It’s not enough to just acknowledge it and ignore it and not talk about it. You have to truly accept it and love your daughter unconditionally.

    Reply
    Anonymousse
    November 26, 2023 at 12:32 pm #1126836

    I was a strict vegan for a long time. I didn’t even learn how to drive a car and get my license until I was 31 because I was so set that my personal choices would make a huge impact. I don’t even know if I’ve shared that in this site, an advice site that I have been a part of for a really long time. They know a lot about me.

    I’m not even going to explain why I’m no longer vegan, and why I am part of a family that now owns two gas guzzling vehicles. It’s life, and as bloody said. I’m managing the best I can.

    You will total alienate yourself and your wife if you keep up with this moral superiority complex and judgement of the people around you.

    You’re not fun and pleasant to be around because yo7 are hounding her and grilling her. You really need therapy. I’m not saying this as an insult, I think almost anyone could benefit from some outside perspective.

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    Lucidity
    November 26, 2023 at 1:08 pm #1126837

    You want your daughter to feel like she can tell you anything. So, be the kind of person she would feel comfortable sharing with. Listen without judgement, respect her decisions, demonstrate unconditional love. Don’t ask for explanations, second-guess her motivations, express judgement, or dismiss her feelings.

    When she casually mentioned the roasted chicken, you could have said “oh – you’re no longer vegan? I’m glad you felt you could share that with me. I know I can be pretty intense about my passion for veganism,” (maybe with a little chuckle), and then dropped it. You could have added “I hope you know that I love you, no matter what you choose to eat.” She would have felt seen, respected. I’m sure she would have been pleasantly surprised. Dinner wouldn’t have gotten awkward and she would have hung up realizing that her fears of telling you were misplaced and that she might actually want to talk you to more about her life and choices!

    With the book thing, you could have accepted her answer when she agreed you should get someone else, and then just dropped it. That’s how most people would have handled this. I’m sure there were a lot of factors that contributed to her taking her time on that last project, and she told you some of them. Choose to believe her. You made it into A Thing when it didn’t need to be. If you have a habit of blowing things that shouldn’t be issues at all into big Things that require uncomfortable conversations, then you are absolutely difficult to talk to.

    Speaking of – you disagree with her statement that you are not easy to talk to. That is her experience, and by dismissing it, you are saying that her feelings don’t matter. When she tells you things, like how she experiences communicating with you, or that she was too busy to get the book thing done, you seem to have a pattern of not believing her. Of course she doesn’t feel like can share with you. Of course she is guarded. Of course she is pulling away.

    If therapy is accessible for you, I encourage you and your wife to attend. It could completely transform your relationship with your daughter, if you are willing to put in the work.

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    Lucidity
    November 26, 2023 at 1:20 pm #1126838

    Recognize and accept that you cannot control how, what, and if another person communicates with you. A lot of the tension between you two stems from you trying to force her to communicate the way you want her to, and holding her accountable when she does not. That’s a degree of control you simply cannot exert over another adult, regardless of whether or not they’re your child. It’s bizarre and very antagonizing behaviour, and it is absolutely part of what is driving her away.

    Reply
    Kate
    November 26, 2023 at 3:30 pm #1126840

    “I want her to feel she can tell me anything.”

    If that’s what you want, then you need to behave accordingly. What does that look like? NOT like asking a bunch of questions. It’s being the parent who says, “thank you for sharing that with me,” or “got it.” “Do you want to say more?” “I’m proud of you being on your own and figuring out what works for you.” “What can we do to support you in that?”

    She needs to know you’re not going to make a big deal out of everything. If she ever does want to go back to being vegan, it will be easier if you haven’t made it a whole thing.

    Reply
    ron
    November 26, 2023 at 3:55 pm #1126841

    I totally agree with the other commenters and I do wear a mask when outside our home; I do this as if my wife’s life depends upon it, because it does.

    You are missing a lot here. When you say things like “my daughter used to be enthusiastically vegan and helping with the family side business” you don’t consider that she had a choice other than to present that facade. It sounds like your family ran like a cult and daughter went along to get along. When she moved out of your house she could, for the first time in her life, decide how she wanted to live her life and what values married to her.

    Yes, you are very controlling. You would only have calmly asked questions if she had revealed she was no longer vegan? To translate: you would have forced her to justify her decision and tried your best to force her to change it. How do I know? The way you right and the fact that your wife, who is so into enforcing the ‘family rules’ you have set down in your little cult, felt the need to inspect her daughter’s refrigerator for meet but understood your daughter’s plea that she (your wife) not pass the information on to you. It seems your wife also fully understands what your reaction would be.

    A parent may hope that their child follow parent’s philosophy for the remainder of their lives, but it needn’t be so. My favorite saying is “you have but one life to live and it’s yours, not your child’s.” You say that you and your wife decided to become vegans in your 30’s. That’s fine and in many ways commendable, but this is what it tells me: you and your wife, as adults, made a decision to live your lives in a way which was different from how your parents raised you. As an adult, that was your right.

    Whether your daughter decides to be an omnivore, or drop out of the religion she was brought up in or leaves religion entirely, or belongs to a different political party than you do, or dates/marries someone you disapprove of, or doesn’t follow your preferred career path, or decides she’s LGBTQ+, or never wants to be a mother, or lives at a higher or lower living standard than you do — that’s all her choice and something that you have no control over and should expect no explanation for, just as you should expect to be granted no right of parental rebuttal to attempt to change her position. She’s an adult. That is the determining factor here. She makes her own decisions.

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I asked my daughter on Thanksgiving why she didn’t tell me she’s no longer vegan

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