December 6, 2019 at 3:10 pm #863513
The point wasn’t that she had no right to be disappointed. The point was that they had discussed things so poorly, or not at all, that she got a proposal that she hated and which she attempted to avoid in the first place. That highlights a huge communication problem and is a symptom of a couple that isn’t ready to get married.
They needed to discuss the proposal ahead of time. They needed to discuss the general timeline of a proposal and marriage. They needed to discuss what would make a nice proposal. They needed to talk. They didn’t. That’s how and why you end up with a proposal that leaves you crying. It means they weren’t at all ready for an engagement.
She needed to see that. Her main complain was that she wouldn’t have a good story to tell her friends and family. That was her focus so that was what people addressed. The story of the engagement isn’t nearly as important as the ability to communicate and being focused on whether you want to spend your life together. The couple who has such a bad engagement is probably not going to do well in marriage because there are so many things that will come up that require communication and agreement. They didn’t manage that. They need a stronger foundation for marriage.
Telling her that yes he was horrible wouldn’t have helped her.December 6, 2019 at 3:21 pm #863518
Agree that they needed to discuss it ahead of time, but what’s relevant now is that they need to talk about it, and it’s not just about her sucking it up and pretending it’s ok when she’s feeling sore about it. It’s ok to want a story – the first thing everyone asks when you get engaged is “how did he/she do it?” I’m guessing people that know her know she’d been hoping for something more thought through.
Everyone who talked mainly about their need to communicate is spot on – but it’s all the rude comments that I think were uneccesary…#fortheinstagramDecember 6, 2019 at 3:21 pm #863519
Wow. There’s nothing wrong with wanting that stuff. In your case, you got it, right? Your fiancé was on the same page. No problem. Here there’s a big problem, which is that the two of them were on totally different pages. The advice was that she needs to get on the same page with him, or determine if she even can. And several people said they didn’t care about showy proposals and find them superficial. That’s an okay opinion to express. A lot of people think that.
I personally said she sounded too immature and insecure to get married, not because of the type of proposal she wanted, but because of her reaction – crying herself to sleep, not communicating, comparing herself to the ex, thinking the ex was the love of his life, etc. Not being able to work through this with the man she says she wants to marry. Those are big problems.December 6, 2019 at 3:24 pm #863520
And yes, I did say “for the gram.” I stand by it. That’s what the matching outfits are for, and making sure a photographer captures it. If not for the gram, for what? Just to text to ppl or put on a card? Everyone* posts their engagement or proposal pics.
*everyone who gets them taken. A lot of people don’t take that type of photo, especially older people.December 6, 2019 at 3:45 pm #863524
She definitely needs to talk it out with him, and her reaction wasn’t great. But a lot of people implied she was a brat for not being thrilled with it, and saying she’s not ready to get married is a leap. We don’t knwo any more context than this.
I’m 35 and got married this year, not sure what you consider “older” to be? As far as why you take them because….you want to? And want the outfits to look nice next to each other (or want good lighting, or want a nice background)? You want the memories of that time. What’s inherently wrong with sharing photos? Just because you take them AND share them doesn’t mean the sole purpose it to share them and look cool on instagram and get heaps of praise (which seems to be your implication). Sharing them on social media can just be you know, sharing about your life. I wanted nice pictures of us not in our wedding formal clothes to show our kids one day. I don’t have kids, but I’m not judging people who do newborn photo shoots…it’s a once in a lifetime thing, live and let live.
A lot of people don’t take that kind of photo, but comments about how she was probably whisked away for a vacay and photos in matching outfits seemed really snarky. Just a different perspective.December 6, 2019 at 3:52 pm #863527
It’s not her age that makes them unready for marriage. It’s their lack of communication making them unready for marriage. If you can’t talk enough to get an engagement that you like then you aren’t ready for marriage. They have got to learn how to talk to each other and discuss what they want and don’t want. The engagement was a symptom of a couple who aren’t on the same page. It was a wake up call. Hopefully this leads to them discussing things and doing better or maybe they need to break up because she feels that he loves his ex more than her. She was looking for validation of the relationship. If you need a physical sign that your relationship is valid it probably isn’t. When your relationship is right you know it. You are confident in it. She isn’t. She doesn’t feel like he loves her as much as the ex. She feels he isn’t over the ex. She may be right. She knows him and that’s her conclusion. If that’s how she feels she shouldn’t be getting engaged and maybe that’s why she avoided his attempt to get engaged earlier in the evening.December 6, 2019 at 3:55 pm #863531
I was being snarky, yes. I guess I do think proposal pics are cheesy when I think about it. I’m sorry. Just my opinion. Not a judgment on you.December 6, 2019 at 3:57 pm #863532
Also, what Skyblossom said. I said it earlier too, that I think she might be right. She knows the guy better than we do.December 6, 2019 at 4:07 pm #863533
I really think they need counseling to be honest, and some genuine conversations. Don’t disagree with that – but I guess I would hope they could work through it without calling off the engagement of that’s what they prefer. Definitely wouldn’t get married without better communication skills between them though.
I went on a vacation with my husband a few months before her proposed and had many, many people asking me before we went if I thought he was going to propose. I spent the first few days on pins and needles, until I finally told him what was on my mind, that I knew he wasn’t planning to propose (nothing in the safe, and we were in an area where you definitely would use it for a ring), and that I was feeling down about it. It opened the doors for us to talk honestly about our expectations and where we were at in our relationship. That’s why I recommended she open up to him – not to cry, chastise, or accuse him of still loving his ex, but to be honest about being let down and let it be the start of them getting on the same page.December 6, 2019 at 4:16 pm #863537
Right, good example.
Also, what I meant by “older people.” You’re a millennial, right? No offense meant. But if you think about boomers, lol, and their parents (greatest generation), do you see pics of the actual proposal? Not really, right? They had cameras, and they could have had someone standing by to capture the moment. They just didn’t do that. They might take an engagement photo for the paper later on, but the proposal was really a private moment and not something they’d think to photograph. You’d always remember it, of course. I can remember so clearly where I was and how I felt when I got engaged both times.
I’m Gen-X and we didn’t really do that either. The whole photo shoot thing really is a product of the Millennial and social media generation. It feels cheesy to me, but it’s pretty normal these days. I don’t hate on people’s pics, I definitely take a look, like them, and move on, but sometimes I do kind of “tee hee” to myself and think they’re selling it pretty hard. I don’t feel bad about that.December 6, 2019 at 4:44 pm #863546
It’s not that it’s bad to have a nice picture. It’s bad when your entire focus seems to be on the pictures and the sharing of them and the story rather than on the fact that you will be marrying this person. When it sounds like the only focus is on the photos and the sharing then the entire engagement feels wrong. If there is no genuine excitement about being engaged then probably they shouldn’t be engaged. If after getting engaged her entire mindset is that she is terribly hurt and feeling that he doesn’t love her as much as the ex then they shouldn’t be engaged. That doesn’t mean that they can’t ever be engaged but it means they certainly aren’t at that point yet.December 6, 2019 at 5:11 pm #863556ronGuest
We often see LW’s totally bent out of shape over what those on the board view as not very significant issues in a relationship. We often frame it as “the issue” being a proxy or test for problems/lack of comfort in the relationship. LW’s initial post shouts this sentiment.
A woman who is as deeply in love with a guy as she claims to be and says she knows that he loves her is simply not consistent with a woman who writes that this retroactive test of his love means that he doesn’t really love her, that his ex is the love of his life, that he isn’t willing to make any sort of effort to make her happy. It’s fine to be disappointed if you had an elaborate proposal with photographer in mind, but to go from thee to not being sure he loves her, is the mark of a very insecure woman who senses far bigger problems in her relationship than the details of his proposal. It also speaks volumes that she stalled his more romantic and picturesque planned proposal. That signifies doubt over the wisdom of marrying him. She faults him for his hints about the lookout spoiling the surprise of the proposal.
So it has to be elaborate, and to he taste, and yet a complete surprise. That precludes getting on the same page with each other about a satisfactory proposal.
A long-term, happy, mutually supportive til-death-do we-part loving marriage doesn’t come about because your proposal was super extravagant with lots of thought and professional photos, and your diamond is two carats. Communication and other important things seem to be missing in this relationship.
For recent posters who are bent out of shape about earlier posters being mean or slighting the LW, I’d say after re-reading the thread that LW was a hell of a lot more insulting to the posters than they were to her. I didn’t see the posters as bitter. We seem to be almost exclusively older marrieds who are very happy in our marriages and have no reason to be bitter.
Given the totality of what she wrote, it is very obvious that LW is not ready to marry this guy. In her original post, she even writes “I undoubtedly am in this relationship to go there at some point>” Also not the words of a woman ready to get engaged today. She says she knew that she was sent to do other shopping so he could get the ring and that she knew he wanted to go to the lookout to propose. Yet she never suggested that she wasn’t ready for a proposal at this time. This is on her. She should have said she was uncomfortable and wanted to slow down. If she wanted something more elaborate than an engagement atop the local look-out point, she should have said they needed to plan together. This whole thing has been recast as a retroactive test “I know he is capable of better, because he did it for her.” (paraphrase, cut and paste isn’t working). Her real problem is she isn’t ready for a proposal from him. Very possibly she never will be. She considers herself a real catch. Not sure she is convinced he measures up to what she deserves in a husband.