FYISeptember 17, 2020 at 12:08 pm #962280
You wrote in for a reason. Was it so that we could validate your feeling that your friends are “mean?” Instead, almost everyone on here is telling you to ditch this guy. Hmm, it’s getting unanimous.
From what you describe, the guy could do practically anything to you, short of abuse, and you’d stick it out. Well, from where I sit, he is being financially abusive.
* Sabotages your finances? check
* Lives in the home without helping? check
* Feels entitled to your money? check
* Limits your ability to advance your career or education? check
You may say that you don’t want children, a home, a career, more education, whatever. You think you’re being a free spirit, maybe, but more money = more options. At 35, you don’t want to save money? have an asset of some kind? a future!?!?
You won’t have options if this guy is taking your money.FYISeptember 17, 2020 at 12:12 pm #962281
“I can tell my fiancé to stop if he’s hurting my feelings and he will…”
We can only go by what you’re saying. Everything you said contradicts this. He over-drafted your account “several” times. It didn’t hurt your feelings the first or second time he did it? I assume you told him, and he went ahead and … DID IT AGAIN.
Your friends are NOT the problem here.
Laziness is a kind of malice, believe me, esp when you are left to pick up ALL the slack. But, you don’t want to hear any of this, that’s clear, so good luck when you’re 50 with no assets.
“all i really consider marriage to be is dating with a better tax refund.”
Then don’t get married! A little bigger tax refund isn’t worth the risk of him wrecking your credit or whatever other costly mistakes.
“ My relationship with my partner works outside the above mentioned things”
Keep it as is then. Go back to separate accounts and just be a couple that lives together.ele4phantSeptember 17, 2020 at 12:22 pm #962283
“Maybe it’s because I’m already divorced but all i really consider marriage to be is dating with a better tax refun”.
Girl – this is hard for me to wrap my head around. As someone who has been divorced once…you *should already know* that people can give marriage whatever meaning they want, *but* if you do it legally, the state for sure has a very specific interpretation of that that is legally and financially binding and hard to undo.
I think a good friend should give you their honest opinion, not say what their friend wants them to hear. Now, this *doesn’t* mean they are right or see the while picture, it’s your life you ultimately have to live with your decisions, but a good friend shouldn’t sugar coat their opinion just so you don’t feel bad.
They think it’s a bad idea that you marry this guy. Frankly, unless you get him to get his act together, I agree with them. Admittedly I don’t really know you, but I do know it’s a bad idea to financially hook your wagon to someone that is financially irresponsible, which you say he is.
If marriage is just a tax break in your eyes, than just have a public commitment ceremony and forgo getting legally married. If marriage doesn’t mean anything to you, why are you even considering doing it?
I didn’t say you were a bad friend. But if one of your friends had a problem like this, you’d really tell them to keep trying to make it work? Are men in short supply wherever you are? Why are you such a proponent of making it work?
All of the behavior you’ve described is disrespectful. He doesn’t care how many times he overdrafts your accounts. He doesn’t care if his inaction puts more work on you.
All men are not lazy. I have never dated a man who didn’t clean up after themself. Shitty men are probably fine with calling it laziness when the truth is, he just doesn’t give a shit enough to check his budget or pick up after himself. If he can fix hurting your feelings, why can’t he pull his fair share?
Why do you badmouth your boyfriend to people you’ve just met? You must have said a lot if they, having barely known him, believe you should break up with him.
But what do we know, right? Obviously, he’s got all those other great qualities you haven’t yet listed.
You can stay with this immature man if you want. But is that what you want? If you don’t want children, why are you mothering a grown man?
If you don’t want people to think your bf sucks, stop bitching about him.ele4phantSeptember 17, 2020 at 12:52 pm #962285
“He’s not malicious he’s just lazy and lots of men are.”
Also this is a lie that some men use to justify their immature behavior, and some women let them get away with it.
Plenty of men are responsible, and those that aren’t are certainly capable.
Don’t excuse his behavior because “Most guys are lazy”. That’s BS. He’s an adult, you aren’t his mother, at this point in his life he should be able to maintian a budget and spend within his means. Don’t let him off the hook because he says he’s lazy but that’s just how the menz are, what can you do?ronSeptember 17, 2020 at 1:32 pm #962286
I think the other posters may well be right, but things are being assumed (I did as well) which LW didn’t say. for instance:
— he is spending her money (She says he has always paid for his financial mistakes with his own $. She hasn’t said which of them earns more or which one works more hours. It may well be him — no indication.)
— He is selfish in terms of $ (She didn’t say that he buys big ticket stuff to satisfy his own needs They may even be gifts to her. They may be things to benefit their shared lives, things they have agreed they need, but that she’t doesn’t think they can afford yet and hasn’t budgeted. In other words, he is financially irresponsible, but not selfish)
— he is taken advantage of her by not doing much housework (I agree with this, but don’t think she does. She said she needs to be in control and wanted to run the finances and thought she could do the housework, which she links to her OCD as something that she may need to do herself, her way. Even if that’s the case, he certainly could pick up after himself and there certainly are chores he could do well by himself.
We don’t know how either of them existed, prior to living together. If they are just scraping by paycheck to paycheck, then either they rented too big an apartment, and/or neither of them lived in an apartment prior to getting together. He may have gotten by living at his parents’ home. We don’t know that. Nor do we know that she was financially stable in her own apartment.
LW seems to set high expectations for herself and she says she considers her self a failure, when she can’t achieve them. That probably is the OCD talking and this engagement/marriage is just another thing she is absolutely determined to make work.
I still think that, after a shot at financial (which they both need if neither of them can save $) and couples counseling, that she needs to MOA, if things don’t improve. Improvement likely requires both of them to alter expectations and make changes in behavior.
I think one of the attractions of this guy for her is that at some level she thinks she can mold and control him. She chose him knowing he was immature for his age and also 6 years younger, so far less mature than herself. The debit card approach is controlling. Really, it is hard to see what control or even independence he has in this relationship. He’s irresponsible and immature, but one gains responsibility by having to be responsible and maturity by doing and by suffering life’s bumps and bruises, as well as from finding your own brand of the good stuff.ele4phantSeptember 17, 2020 at 2:05 pm #962287
I don’t mean to be rude or cruel, and truthfully I *don’t know* the OP or all there is to know about their relationship, but from only what I’ve read, I kind of get the impression that the OP is bending over backwards to hang onto a man.
I mean – why the need to be so hard nosed in hanging onto a relationship , that in a pretty substaintial way, isn’t working. I know she says she has the mentality of just work it out no matter what baring anything extreme like abuse – but they’re *not* yet married (or even publicly committed if she’s truthful that she doesn’t care about marriage). That’s what dating is *for* – to determine if you have long term compability with someone before you commit your whole life to them. If there’s a glaring incompatibility or red flag, you absolutely can and should pull the plug.
His irresponsibility is a pretty huge red flag, but she’s accepting every single one of his excuses at face value.
Maybe if I knew more about the details of her life and relationship I’d have a different opinion, but based on what I do know my opinion is – have some self-respect for your own value and aim higher. To me OP it reads like you’re settling for crumbs and deluding yourself that you are okay with what you’ve got.
Are you really?BlabQueenSeptember 17, 2020 at 2:30 pm #962288
Ok for the sake of argument I rewrote my original post spun the way I meant it with hopefully extra info
I (35W) have been with my partner (29M) for 3 years. We are both pretty introverted and bonded over that in the beginning. We soon discovered we had a lot in common including music taste, politics and overall life goals. I am the more responsible one and can be a bit type A and he is more immature but also laid back so I felt like we balanced each well. One year ago we decided to move to the other side of country together. When we arrived at our new destination and got settled in he proposed. We hadn’t really talked about getting married but since we had common ideas about our future (we don’t want kids and aren’t interested in planting roots long term any particular place) I said yes. Getting married doesn’t really matter to me in the long run but I’m not against it. In this past year I made friends with a few new people (a married couple mid 30s, a man in his late 20s (in a relationship), and a girl on her mid 20s (single). Also in the past year my partner and I joined bank accounts. This was my suggestion because I like to be in control and thought it would make me feel better to manage our money. There have been a lot of issues since our accounts were joined and it causes me a lot of stress. Occasionally while out with the above friends I would vent my stress over our finances. I didn’t think this was a big deal since they all did the same. We discussed all sorts of topics including our main stressors which included work, relationships and money. I haven’t really had a friends group like this before and the personalities are a little different than what I’m used to. I was shocked that after I vented about my fiancé’s poor spending habits that all 4 of them suggested I end the relationship. The man in particular (who is a coworker as well) has been very aggressive about it, even involving other coworkers in my business which I thought was just between the friend group and me. My fiancé is not involved in the group as he doesn’t have the free time I do but he’s always been supportive of them and my spending time with them. I was always taught that it was bad form to try to break your friends up with their partners because if they stay together after you put it out there it will be hard for you to remain friends with a person who knows you hate their partner. I am trying to remain friends with these people but I find them aggressive and even more so feel like they only know my partner based on a few stories I told them while we were having what I thought was a community bitch session. I don’t really think the married couple or the guy are in good relationships but I would never tell them that. Am I in the wrong here? Are they? Should I just cut my losses? Thanks in advanceSeabeastSeptember 17, 2020 at 2:32 pm #962289
“There have been several times he has bought things I didn’t factor into our budget and caused us to overdraft (we don’t make a ton of money and basically live paycheck to paycheck) recently we bounced our rent check because he made a big ticket purchase without consulting me.”
Okay… that isn’t really a small issue. Bouncing a rent check is actually a BIG issue.
If you’re going to stay with him, at least separate your finances. Maybe have yours-mine-ours accounts, where a specific amount is put into the “ours” account for things like rent and utilities and nothing else, but you each have discretionary spending money of your own.
To be frank, I don’t see your relationship lasting. I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it.
His irresponsibility causes you a lot of stress. Those are your words. To marry him would be a big financial mistake because of that. Separate your finances. Insist on financial counseling. Be more careful of what you say to friends and coworkers.
It’s interesting that you hadn’t ever spoken of marriage. You can have commitment without marriage. Do you guys communicate? Do you tell him how much his bad choices stress you out? How they are affecting both of your finances? You can say you don’t care about owning a house one day, but wouldn’t it be nice not to live paycheck to paycheck? You could be saving, if he wasn’t reckless.
I know in your rewrite you’re trying to say this was a post about your friends, but the title remains- should you leave your fiancé over something smallish? Most of us have answered that- you just don’t like the answers. It’s worth thinking about that all of us and your “friends” agree.
“ I was always taught that it was bad form to try to break your friends up with their partners because if they stay together after you put it out there it will be hard for you to remain friends with a person who knows you hate their partner. ”
It’s not that it’s “bad form.” In fact true friends should be looking out for you and telling you if they think you should get away from your partner. It’s that you should *be careful* of doing that because of the reason you mentioned, that the person will probably end up staying in the bad relationship.
What you’re not getting is that *in spite of that,* these four people felt so strongly that you should dump this dud, that they ALL said, you know what, fuck it, I’m gonna just say it. That’s a big deal. You keep focusing on etiquette but it’s not the point.