- This topic has 26 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by Ange.
- May 15, 2019 at 4:49 pm #843472saneincaGuest
@quark, no it is liberal laziness that elected Trump.
As much as much people may have disliked Hilary, could they not see the alternative ?
I don’t blame conservatives for voting for their guy.
I blame liberals for not voting for our candidate.May 15, 2019 at 5:04 pm #843475dinocerosMember
I think it’s more nuanced than just whether people were motivated to vote or not. Voter suppression, campaign financing issues, etc. I just read “Dark Money” by Jane Mayer, and I think it shows there are a few more layers to it. I think it’s a little simplistic to say it’s just “you didn’t fall in line.”
I think if we’re going to list liberals’ problems, one of them is reciting conservative talking points without wondering if maybe the reason they are being said isn’t necessarily because they are 100% true, but perhaps so that we will recite them and it’ll become “fact.”May 15, 2019 at 5:22 pm #843476ktfranParticipant
With the current court, you’re delusional if you don’t think abortion rights has a strong chance of being severely limited or overturned. Maybe it won’t be Alabama, or Georgia, or Ohio, but someone will get it “right.” This is not GOP posturing. People want this and it has been building more steam for the last 10+ years with fucking tea party Republicans.
I hope I’m wrong and you can come back to this thread and say “I told you so” and I’ll gladly eat my words.
ETA: I’m also extremely pissed at people who think “oh, such and such will never happen.” People never thought Trump was electable. Look how that turned out. It’s that same type of thinking that will hurt women’s rights to body autonomy.
May 16, 2019 at 6:06 am #843498LisforLeslieGuest
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by ktfran.
The pendulum is likely going to swing back. I am mentally preparing for it.
I wrote a whole screed and then erased it because all I would like is for the group of old white men to answer the following questions.
1. How long does it take (hours or days) from sex to “conception”?
2. It is possible for a woman to get pregnant every day of the year Y/N
3. Pregnancy can not happen if the woman was raped T/F
4. The state will increase the budget by $$___________ to fund pre-natal care
5. The state will increase the budget by $$___________ to fund post-natal care including WIC, housing and medicaid
6. The state will increase the budget by $$___________ to build additional schools
7. The state will increase the budget by $$___________ to add social workers and foster programs
8. The state will increase the budget by $$___________ to add teachers and requisite administratorsMay 16, 2019 at 6:50 am #843503Cleopatra_30Participant
@LisforLeslie preach…that is my biggest concern, anytime a political party or representative talks about abortion and how evil it is, and wanting to rid of it, do they ever plan to increase funding to help that new Mother take care of that child they forced her into keeping?? How ironic eh?
Although I am Canadian, we have an MPP in Ontario (v young btw) who is pro life, and since the provinces recent election he was elected in for his riding. He has been to rallies and vocal on his support. He shared this gem in an interview
“Thank you for being among the first. You are all trailblazers because you believe in the rights of mothers and children.”
Just bullshit, you are not saving the rights of mothers, you are forcing the creation of mothers, the entire statement is a fallacy. I have been reading though the last day or so all the stuff happening in the states in relation to abortion. There is just so much irony to the laws being supported for abortion when they make it sound like these pregnant women are being forced to have abortions, their rights taken away from them as ‘mothers’ and their unborn children. When in fact the laws being supported are the ones taking rights away more so than just having abortion as an OPTION (not the only one as we know).
I was reading an article on Senator Wayne Wallingford who was quoted as saying women would be safer going to a zoo to get an abortion than at a clinic. Then continued to dig himself in a whole with that. Literally comparing the waiting period of zoo animals with women and how they should have a waiting period like zoo animals for abortions etc. Made me sick.
Then found out they had a lady named gianna jessen talk to their party earlier in the year. She sounds like a joke as well, and spewing all this misinformation. Comparing a 1970’s saline abortion to current standards in that because she was born early due to a botched abortion using that method, all abortions are bad. We have advanced since then, and apparently saline abortions have pretty much been phased out for more ethical and successful procedures.
Ugh, a bad way to end my day yesterday reading up on all this. But also very informative 😛May 16, 2019 at 7:47 am #843507Dear WendyKeymaster
If these old white men truly worried about the sanctity of life and felt, as they say, that life begins at conception, then they would also criminalize the discarding of unused embryos (like an IVF clinics, etc.). They don’t though, and when asked why not, an GOP Alabama state senator said it’s because the embryos aren’t in the women. This is ALL about controlling, degrading, and dehumanizing women by stripping away our rights and our autonomy over our own bodies. It’s fucking disgusting.May 16, 2019 at 7:56 am #843510ronGuest
I don’t doubt some young Bernie supporters sat out the election. I’m in an older demographic and I and quite a number of older progressives I talk politics with locally voted Bernie in the primary, but held our noses and voted Hillary in the general.
Do you know what demographic went for Trump by a fairly large majority: married white women. Hillary failed to carry her own demographic. A source of some ire to me, because when I campaigned for Obama back in 2008, these were the people in my district who a week before the election weren’t sure they could bring themselves to vote Obama, because they thought they were owed the first woman president before African-Americans got their first black president. They actually said it was ‘Hillary’s turn’. Prior to 2008, that had always been an R concept rather than a D one.
Obama was quite popular. Hillary couldn’t bring herself to talk up the Obama administration. It was all about how much tougher a foreign policy she would have had. One of the issues on which Trump beat her was her insistence upon standing as a neocon world policeman. That’s also how Obama beat her in 2008. Well, that and her stupid, multiple campaign managers who bargained on an early knockout and basically ceded the caucuses in the R Rocky Mountain states to Obama.
And no, this isn’t just Rs posturing for their base. Within the next couple of years, Roe is toast.May 16, 2019 at 8:10 am #843511LisforLeslieGuest
This is going to sound horrific and please don’t clothesline me but in a weird way, I feel like this is necessary to remind people what’s at stake.
We, as a nation, are stupid, selfish and callous. Look at the resurgence of measles. However, when people are touched by the issue, they pay attention.
There are young women out there who have never known a world without the birth control pill. Without privacy laws for health care. Where it was possible to discriminate on the basis of sex. They don’t understand their privilege and so by taking it away, it will return us to a bad position. But the real damage is that we know what privilege tastes like. We know what bodily autonomy feels like. Worst case – we have a situation like they had in Ireland where a woman died because the hospital wouldn’t put her life above that of a fetus. End result – marching in the streets and the law was changed. That is likely what will happen. Women will die. Women will die in hospitals because some doctor will be so scared of going to jail for doing her job, that she allows a patient to die.
The pendulum is swinging backwards, but it eventually moves forward again.May 16, 2019 at 8:13 am #843512LucidityGuest
@bloodymediocrity please don’t say you regret bringing your daughter into this world. I’m pregnant with a girl right now and when I found out the gender I was initially sad for a lot of reasons, including that she’ll share my experiences of getting sexually harassed and likely assaulted, probably from a very young age.
But despite how bad things seem right now, this is still one of the better times to be a woman, at least in most countries. She won’t be traded like property as a teenager to a man twice or triple her age and bear children nonstop while doing all the housework by hand. She can vote and own property and earn her own living. She can speak out about what matters to her without being burned as a witch for the crime of being a freethinker. She could run for office or volunteer with a politician who is trying to make things better or for other organizations that help women.
They may be trying to drag us backwards but women aren’t going to sit back and accept that. We’ve been through too much.May 16, 2019 at 8:44 am #843515KateKeymaster
Not surprising that men are inclined to blame women (HRC, DWS, female voters) for this situation.
41% of women voters voted for Trump, and 52% of men.
Also, hello, Paul Manafort gave Konstantin Kilimnick *polling data* for 4 key battleground states, 3 of which Trump mysteriously won by a handful of votes, juuuuust more than enough to do a recount.
May 16, 2019 at 9:43 am #843520anonymousseMember
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Kate.
I’m really tired of the pointing of fingers. There were many things that went wrong, and before we go there- she won the popular vote. Even with the meddling, even with the Bernie bros, even with 41% of white women (who did actually vote) for trump.
We have to move forward and do better. I do believe so many people were just inactive. I also believe having 45 in office has spurred more civic engagement. For too long, we were passive, apathetic and assumed the people we put in office wouldn’t do us wrong. In that sense, I actually think he could be MAGA- just not in the way he’s promised. The right has had anger and fear fueling them for a long time, which is powerful and propels them into action. Now the left does, too.May 16, 2019 at 3:31 pm #843529quarkGuest
The kind of thinking that elected the president is not liberal laziness, it is the “it is just posturing” or “it can never happen here” thinking. People stayed home because of it. People voted for Jill Stein because of it.
Saying these attacks of women’s autonomy is just posturing ignores the fact that the courts are packed with right-wing nut jobs who would love to outlaw abortion to control women. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see A LOT more of these bills being passed now that the SCOTUS is conservative.