It’s time again for “Dear Wendy Updates,” a feature where people I’ve given advice to in the past let us know whether they followed the advice and how they’re doing today. After the jump, we hear from “More Than a FWB?” who wondered if she should express her feelings to her FWB of five months before leaving town for the summer.
After careful thought and deliberation (okay, all of 15 minutes!) I let him know that we were done. Of course, he spent the night drunkenly texting me a mixture of sweet nothings, confessions of undying love, and some not-so-pleasant words. The next day, he tried to ‘take back’ all that he had said (because if you’re drunk when you do something, you don’t have to be accountable for it, right?) and wanted to confirm that we were, in fact, done. I asked him what it was that he wanted and he said he didn’t know. That was all I needed to hear to know it was time to MOA.
I am sad that I lost someone who was a very close friend to me for the last few months. But ya know what? In hindsight, and I know if he pulled that crap with me, then he wasn’t really a good friend anyway. So, I gave myself two days to be sad about it, then I put on my favorite dress and got back out there.
Thank you for your advice. I do think it was the best way to handle the situation.
Thanks for the update. Have a great summer — maybe you’ll even find someone to date who isn’t so ambivalent about what he wants!
If you’re someone I’ve given advice to in the past, I’d love to hear from you, too. Email me at firstname.lastname@example.org with a link to the original post, and let me know whether you followed the advice and how you’re doing now.
caitie_didn't May 17, 2011, 12:09 pm
Woohoo! Good for you, LW for standing up for yourself!
phoenix287 May 17, 2011, 2:17 pm
I wonder why you got thumbed down
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:25 pm
I guess they think that women aren’t allowed to have emotions or change their minds.
_jsw_ May 18, 2011, 1:36 pm
As someone who often reads this site on an iPhone, I can verify that you might think you’ve thumbed someone up (or down) and actually did the opposite, but then moved on before verifying your “vote”.
_jsw_ May 18, 2011, 1:41 pm
Didn’t read enough other comments. Someone’s enjoying trolling today. Too many thumbs down for benign comments.
BoomChakaLaka May 17, 2011, 12:17 pm
Love that you are getting right back out there! Don’t waste any time or tears on that dude.
Skyblossom May 17, 2011, 12:18 pm
Good for you! Strong, smart women end up with what they want!
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 1:46 pm
No, they don’t. They just marginally increase their chances of doing as such.
_jsw_ May 18, 2011, 1:40 pm
I disagree with “marginally.”
Granted, there are no guarantees, but someone who is proactive about not sticking around people and situations that aren’t good for them is definitely going to improve their chances of ending up with a person or situation that is better for them.
oldie May 17, 2011, 3:20 pm
I don’t think you deserved 6 thumbs down. In general I think you are right. Perhaps more accurate to also mention that it may take them longer to settle down, but that they are far less likely to settle down with or even waste significant time with a guy who is a big mistake. This isn’t limited to smart women, just women who are smart enough to have achieved sufficient self knowledge to know what will work for them long term, and who are strong enough to have a modicum of impulse control when confronted by choices who obviously deviate from what they have decided they need in a partner.
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 12:21 pm
“So, I gave myself two days to be sad about it, then I put on my favorite dress and got back out there.”
mf May 17, 2011, 1:22 pm
Is someone thumbing down all these comments? Why in the world would someone “dislike” all this encouragement for the LW?
caitie_didn't May 17, 2011, 1:27 pm
Firegirl32 May 17, 2011, 1:43 pm
Jess May 17, 2011, 1:50 pm
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 2:17 pm
There are some serious thumb-downers out there ! I made a joke on another post that if i would admit to liking the color red some red-color-hater would thumb me down & guess what, I was thumbed down !!!
Teresa May 17, 2011, 2:51 pm
I’ve noticed it a lot too, I think the haters (trolls, whatever you wanna cell ’em)come on here and thumb down everything for shits n giggles….. or there is really someone out there who is just that fucked up
Wendy May 17, 2011, 2:52 pm
Do you guys think I should get rid of the thumbs? Is it starting to cause too much negativity? I don’t want this to be a place that breeds that, although I do encourage debates. Thoughts?
LTC039 May 17, 2011, 2:56 pm
Honestly, at first they bothered me, but now I just brush them off as someone doing it for kicks. I think maybe we should, if that’s what you want… I rather someone explain to me why they disagree with me versus clicking a button just because.
Mainer May 17, 2011, 2:57 pm
I’ve always thought the thumb down thing was stupid. Thumb up is fine, it just shows support for a certain idea/comment. But if someone disagrees, post a comment to state why you disagree. This passive thumb downing thing is kinda dumb, because as most people point out when receiving one with no comment “what’s with the thumb down?” Sack up and engage in a debate rather than just purple thumbing it.
Hana May 17, 2011, 5:19 pm
Kate May 17, 2011, 5:22 pm
I don’t see why a “passive thumbs down” is different than a thumbs up. Isn’t it the same thing, it just means someone disagrees?
Mainer May 17, 2011, 5:28 pm
Well, a thumb up is agreeing with a person, so you don’t really need to say anything. Otherwise there would be a long list below it of “agree” or “this” or whatever. But if you disagree, maybe stand up for why you disagree. Get a dialogue going. That’s my whole rationale behind it. Then if you agree with someone’s contention, you can thumb up that comment. Getting a thumb down is like, “Okay you disagree. So WHY do you disagree?” Which makes the thumb down passive.
Kate May 17, 2011, 5:35 pm
Uh, I guess I don’t see it that way. If you don’t make a comment on either up or down, they are both passive. Also if you don’t have time or don’t know exactly what to day, the thumbs come in handy.
Foreveryoung May 17, 2011, 5:29 pm
I agree with Kate. It’s no more passive than a “passive” thumbs up. Again, thumbs down shouldn’t be taken too personally. Sometimes the most disagreement I have with something someone said is simply that, I disagree. No explanation is necessary, the thumbs down speaks for itself. Today is a slow day and I do have time to respond, but most days I don’t. It would be weird to “require” someone to explain why they disagree with something, while not “requiring” that they explain why they agree. I don’t think agreement/disagreement need to be explained a lot of the time.
People that comment should realize people might have different opinions than theirs, and that’s fine. Discussions like this would be really boring to read if everyone had the same background, same past experiences, and shared opinions. No need to get defensive.
Foreveryoung May 17, 2011, 5:33 pm
By the way I meant the people who get thumbed down should not get defensive about the purple thumb, like WHAT! How could you possibly not agree with me, everything I said was so well articulated and clearly the only rational opinion on the issue. Not that you personally were getting defensive at the present moment.
fallonthecity May 17, 2011, 11:35 pm
Yeah, the defensiveness is part of the reason I don’t tend to elaborate on why I disagree with comments here unless I’m familiar with the commenter and feel sure they’ll respond reasonably — I disagreed with a commenter I wasn’t familiar with once and had that person get all, STOP PICKING ON ME! Which doesn’t really make for interesting discussion.
Mainer May 17, 2011, 5:38 pm
No I agree, and you bring up a valid point (I just read what you wrote below). And I wasn’t really getting defensive, just defending my statement. Okay, so a form of being defensive, but not in the “jump down someone’s throat” defensive. Which is a good thing to see here and, just as with the purple thumbs, shouldn’t be taken seriously. Engaging in back and forth doesn’t need to be bitter (which can often be interpreted as, which would be another supporting argument for HAVING thumb up/down).
Thyme May 17, 2011, 3:03 pm
I like the thumbs!
When there are already tons of comments on a post, I generally only read the ones with lots of thumbs (of either variety), or at least that’s where I start.
Also, it feels good to get lots of thumbs up on one’s own comments.
I don’t take offense at thumbs-down. It’s just disagreement, not daggers of hatred.
SGMcG May 17, 2011, 3:03 pm
I don’t mind seeing the thumbs. I will confess that sometimes I skim the comments immediately to the thumbs down section because I’m interested in reading the non-popular ideas – it helps me get perspective. I’ve gotten a few thumbs down myself and it’s actually made me realize that I need to write my opinion more eloquently and indicate when I’m using sarcasm. Because we all know that the internet is not sarcastic at all
SGMcG May 17, 2011, 3:05 pm
Yeah, that last sentence was supposed to include a ::sarcasm:: tag. 😀
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 3:15 pm
I was going to suggest taking down the thumbs up/down option, it might push people into actually posting more if they agree or disagree with someone.
I don’t mind when someone disagrees with me but sometimes it’s obvious that someone is hating on a particular commentator more than on what is written.
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 3:18 pm
Wendy, how about an option that just lets us vote for a specific comment of the week ? That way yo can keep track & there might be less negativity.
Kate May 17, 2011, 5:23 pm
I do the same thing! Plus, I don’t see why people take a thumbs down personally. It’s an opinion!
Christy May 17, 2011, 3:20 pm
I love the thumbs, and I don’t have a problem when I get thumbsed down. What does annoy me, though, is when people commented on the thumbs. “Ooh, this will be thumbsed down!” “I wonder why this got thumbsed down?” For TOM’s comment, maybe someone thought that the LW should have given herself more time to process the FWB situation ending. For example, I just thumbsed down MissDre’s comment above because sometimes snippy comments really irritate me. I don’t have a problem with MissDre, but I don’t like the tone of her comment. I don’t care enough about it to leave a comment in reply, but I just wanted to let her know that I’m over the comment snippiness. MissDre, I’m just picking on you because you’re the first one I saw up there. Nothing personal 🙂 Maybe someone will thumbs me down because they hate smiley faces. But I don’t really care–it just helps me aggregate sentiment about my post.
Conclusion: Please keep the thumbs! But please, everyone, let’s stop commenting about the thumbs unless something is actually extra-ordinary.
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 3:34 pm
@Christy, I totally get your point & really don’t mind when someone disagrees but sometimes it’s not even an opinion that gets thumbed down it’s a personal preference. Last week, MissDre got thumbed down for saying that she loves working on a Mac but unfortunately has to use a PC at work. Why in the world would someone feel so strongly about that comment to thumb it down ?
If people are so thumb-down trigger happy, they shouldn’t mind if we call them out on it ….
Christy May 17, 2011, 3:40 pm
Maybe they work for Apple?
(Mostly) kidding. Maybe they wanted to express their supportive displeasure about having to use a PC at work? (Like a double negative?)
And with calling out the trolls–do you really think they care about you calling them out? For me, personally, the call-outs get really tedious.
Kate May 17, 2011, 5:24 pm
The call outs are very tedious, and like you said, who cares if someone calls you out?
HmC May 17, 2011, 5:31 pm
Why would you assume that someone would have to feel *strongly* about something in order to make the absolutely minimal effort it takes to click their mouse once over a purple thumb? Honestly, the fact that people get so emotionally wrapped up in this thumbing stuff is a clear indicator, to me, of how much more sensitive the commenters are on this site relative to others I frequent. I know it’s sexist and maybe unfair to attribute this difference to the fact that we are mostly female here, but I can’t help but think that is at least part of it. And I’m not even saying that’s a bad thing.
Honestly, people are so incredibly cordial here! And that’s good in a lot of ways and a nice respite from more male driven message boards where people are constantly ripping each other new assholes. But, posting on those sites, as well as getting purple thumbed on this one, has helped me to refine my writing expression skills as well as develop a thicker internet skin. Look at the purple thumbs as constructive criticism, and don’t take things so personally from people who don’t know you personally. If they’re just being a non-constructive jerk, then why should you care at all?
Kate May 17, 2011, 5:40 pm
I am giggling a little at your first paragraph…I wanted to say the same thing, but figured it would sound too mean. I think you’re right. Some people are very sensitive and it does not take much effort to click a button. People should not take it personally!
Foreveryoung May 17, 2011, 5:51 pm
I agree, most of the time if I purple thumb something down I don’t feel strongly about it, I just happen not to agree. Although I will say that I am extremely glad people here are sensitive and respectful. I think it sets the tone of having this site be more about meaningful, intelligent discussions instead of drama filled venting sessions. So I guess I think people should lighten up about it because this site is extremely respectul. If it weren’t, and people were name calling and being unnecessarily rude in their comments to one another, I could see how the purple thumb would be more offensive, but in this nice environment I think it should be taken more of just “hey, I don’t agree, but agree to disagree” and most people that do feel strongly will write their own comment.
As you can see I will stick up for my right to red/purple thumbs things because I clearly cannot articulate great responses like reginaray (sp?) and other commenters, haha. So for the most part I will leave it to the eloquent writers and agree/disagree with whoever most aligns with my thoughts.
Wendy May 17, 2011, 2:55 pm
The nice thing about the thumbs is that it helps me find the best/most popular comments for “comments of the week” — something I didn’t do while i was on vacation, but am planning to start up again this week. Without high-thumb counts, I have to wade through hundreds and hundreds of comments each week, and as much as I love you all, I don’t have time to read each and every word written in the section. Comments with lots of thumbs down also helps me moderate things and I can delete those comments that are especially nasty…
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:59 pm
Maybe we could have just “like” button and then a way to flag inappropriate comments? Not sure if your blog platform supports that.
So far I don’t think the thumbs is a huge deal, but we certainly don’t want to breed negativity as the community grows.
melikeycheesecake May 17, 2011, 3:12 pm
I like the thumbs.. and just tend to ignore the serial thumbs downers.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:21 pm
I think that both sets of thumbs are a necessary tool for keeping the discussions well-moderated, balanced, and not group-thinky. We’re all adults here, and should be able to handle the moderately tiny disappointment of receiving a red thumb. Trolls will troll regardless of the comment system.
Also, I can’t measure my own self-worth without the quantified approval of others.
Wendy May 17, 2011, 3:27 pm
Ha. Point taken.
SpaceySteph May 17, 2011, 9:53 pm
You’re so wrong Spaceboy, its a purple thumb. How do you feel about yourself now?
spaceboy761 May 18, 2011, 1:41 pm
That’s because YOU always hogged the crayons I never delveoped a proper sense of color!
spaceboy761 May 18, 2011, 1:41 pm
MOM ALWAYS LIKED YOU BETTER!!!
LennyBee May 17, 2011, 3:26 pm
I like the thumbs. I think they help motivate discussion, even the down thumbs. And the up thumbs are fabulous – it would get old quick to have to type out “wow! great comment!” at every comment we like, so we’d never get that positive feedback.
Foreveryoung May 17, 2011, 4:07 pm
Wendy please, please keep the thumbs! Both of them. I barely ever comment (I think I have twice so far) and I only do so when I feel extremely strongly about something. Since I barely have the time to read this site let alone comment, I truly appreciate the people who do. It’s great that I can just throw in a quick thumbs up if I love their response. I also find the thumbs down helpful in case someone is writing a snippy comment, being judgmental, or just stating an opinion I don’t particularly agree with. I don’t think you should remove the thumbs down…yet at least, because so far the environment here is respectful, and unless that changes I think most commenters understand that a thumbs down should not be taken personally, and just someone (quickly) stating that they don’t agree. I love the intelligent discussions on here, and unless the respect level changes I like being able to add input without having to personally comment.
Heather Feather May 17, 2011, 4:25 pm
I think it is fair to do a “nastiest comment of the week”. Call those suckas out!
SpyGlassez May 17, 2011, 3:59 pm
If there is just one thumb after a comment of mine, I tend to ignore it and just think trolls. If I have two or three thumbs, then I consider why someone might disagree with me. Usually, though, I think people put comments if they thumbs-down something to explain WHY they didn’t agree.
TheGirl May 17, 2011, 4:55 pm
I’m o.k. with the thumbs down, particularly if someone else has already responded and you agree with why they disagree with the original poster (I HOPE that made sense). Sometimes it just makes more sense than writing the same thing that the person before you already wrote – I do the same with the green thumbs too. Yes, sometimes it is applied a bit aggressively and without thought, but that is the nature of the beast we call the internet. Personally, I try not to reply to my own post asking why I’m getting purple thumbs. I don’t think that really gets you anywhere.
I do think we need to recognize that the purple thumb is JUST ‘disagree’, not ‘I hate you’. Its o.k. and very healthy to disagree.
As a side note – I do like the idea of adding an ‘inappropriate’ button… just not at the expense of the purple thumb!
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 12:49 pm
Interesting. Frankly, I don’t get why you got all huffy and bent out of shape when a guy treated you as just exactly what you signed up to be… a friend with benefits. He never said you were his girlfriend. (In fact, he went out of his way NOT to day that.) He never said YOU couldn’t sleep with others… Sounds to me like you were so desperate for a relationship with this guy that you simply lapped up any and all scraps he threw in your direction —- then got angry when it didn’t morph into somehow being “THE ONE.” It’s not his fault he never fell in love with you, especially when he spelled out that that was never his intention anyway… Sure, his drunken behavior and texts were a bit stupid to be sure, but drunken pathetic texting behavior is not exactly a male behavior… Oh, and I can’t tell you how many times people of both sexes have said ridiculously absurd things to me when drunk…
Look, when I’m in a friends with benefits relationship with some guy (which I presently am) we are both “nice enough” to tell one another if we’ve slept with anybody else. All these — You Go Girl! comments about how the LW are cracking me up. Look, the guy treated her like a friend with benefits….which is what SHE signed on to be. She’s more than entitled to change her mind about the relationship, true — but it isn’t exactly some huge victorious decision on her part Look, if you want to date somebody, don’t fuck them with no strings attached. NEWSFLASH! Don’t agree to be a friend with benefits because you simply “just know” it can and will only lead to the two of you being together forever and ever.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 12:53 pm
mf May 17, 2011, 1:25 pm
I don’t think she sounds huffy and bent out of shape. Besides, he wasn’t treating her like a FWB, he was treating her like his girlfriend! If you read the original post, you’ll see that he introduced her to his parents and said they were practically dating. That’s confusing behavior from someone who supposedly doesn’t have romantic feelings for you.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 1:52 pm
“Treating her like his girlfriend” would have constituted saying, “Hi mom. This is my girlfriend.” Did that happen? No. As Mark said, he treated her exactly like a FWB, which is all he ever promised. FWB relationships are like the nuclear power plant of mixed signals.
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 1:56 pm
PS — The only person who ever said practically dating was the LW.
mf May 17, 2011, 2:50 pm
Actually, no, the guy “made a joke about how [they were] practically dating.” That’s a direct quote from the LW’s previous letter.
ReginaRey May 17, 2011, 3:31 pm
Not so sure that making a joke about dating can be taken seriously…I feel that was probably the LW grasping at straws a bit.
Heather Feather May 17, 2011, 3:17 pm
I’m sorry but the FWB title goes right out the door as soon as he takes you to a function with his parents. Like it or not…that’s how us women feel.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:23 pm
I wouldn’t say ‘goes right out the door’, but it sure confuses the living hell out of it.
Heather Feather May 17, 2011, 4:27 pm
I have no intention of benefiting it up with someone when I know what their momma looks like. Just saying!
MissDre May 17, 2011, 1:39 pm
How was she acting bent out of shape? Yeah, she developed feelings for the guy, so she confessed her feelings, and he didn’t respond the way she wanted, so she chose to end it instead of continuing to sleep with someone who wasn’t on the same page as her. She simply decided that this wasn’t what she wanted anymore and maturely ended it.
What should she have done? Say “oops my bad, I was clearly wrong to break the FWB code” and continue to sleep with him? Hell no!
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 1:55 pm
Oh, come on! The tone of her entire rant was well beyond bent out of shape and bordering on snide. “After careful thought, okay all of 15 minutes…” “He kindly…” “If he pulled that crap on me…” Then, the most hilarious part of the original letter is the timing. When does she try to lock it all down? Now when they live in the same city and can see one another, no. But only after she has decided to leave town for three months…
If she is falling for the guy, then she should break things off, yes. But it isn’t HIS fault that she fell, so she should really get off the cross… All I am saying is that if you sign on to be a friend with benefits…don’t act all surprised and aghast that Mr. Friend sees you solely as that.
Hey, I’ve met the parents before, too. It certainly didn’t mean anything in the end other than the fact that I was a good friend. And you know what? That wasn’t exactly some big surprise, either as we both knew that going in. Look, LW, you can’t agree to something and then get all pissy just because it simply doesn’t grow like you (one-sidely) want it or expect it to. Stop holding your unfair and unrealistic expectations against those who fail to fulfill them. Trust me, you’ll be happier.
MissDre May 17, 2011, 1:59 pm
I don’t understand why you think she’s being pissy and blaming him… yes she was disappointed that he didn’t return her feelings, but she moved on from that.
SpaceySteph May 17, 2011, 2:16 pm
Part of the FWB agreement is that you can end it without having “a breakup” with all the drama that entails. She signed up for no strings attached, yet the moment she tried to walk away from the situation, he started tugging on the strings. Drunken texting about how he loves you or hates you post-FWB-relationship is just as inappropriate to the FWB arrangement as wanting him not to have sex with another girl, and I think she has a right to be pissy that she received that treatment from any guy.
Besides, as we told another LW last week, being drunk is not an ok excuse for saying/doing hurtful things. We should hold this guy to the same standard and be glad she didn’t let him get away with that behavior be he her friend, lover, ex boyfriend, or anything else.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:25 pm
Instant green thumb for ‘get off the cross’! It’s a classic for a reason!
Britannia May 17, 2011, 2:43 pm
Sometimes meeting the parents is inevitable – like, it was not set-up to be a formal meeting, it just happened to happen. Way too many women think “Oh, he introduced me by name to his parents, that MUST mean he’s serious about me”. No, it just meant that he introduced you to his parents, which is something that happens with almost all friends at some point. It doesn’t mean that he’s serious about you.
mf May 17, 2011, 2:52 pm
No, it doesn’t always mean the guy is serious about you. But it’s certainly unusual for a FWB situation, and it’s easy to see how she might misconstrue his feelings when he introduced her to his parents.
My point was: she misread his intentions, and I can see why she did that since some of actions seemed to point to “relationship” rather than “FWB.”
Hana May 17, 2011, 5:31 pm
It doesn’t always mean a guy is into you, true, but the letter says he was taking her to family events. IMO going to a family event with someone is not something FWB do if they are not dating. If he wasn’t serious about her why would he want to introduce her to people? Also, if he didn’t have feelings for her he would not drunk text her after she left him. He sounds like he just likes to be in controla nd have all the power or he is a player who wants it all but doesn’t want the LW to date others while with him. I am very happy for the LW that she realized what being with him (in the same fashion as before, whatever it was) was not working. Some women waste way too many years trying to prove themselves to a man or make him pick her.
More than a FWB May 18, 2011, 12:30 am
Actually, I am currently still in the same city. At least for a few more days. Perhaps, that’s why this all sucked so much. Because when we should have been enjoying these last couple of weeks (no matter what our relationship was) he was pretty much being a jerk. It was like a switch went off.
He made the comment about a month ago (while sober) that he was “pushing me away” because he torn between wanting to spend as much time as possible with me before I go and wanting to pretend like it wasn’t going to matter to him that I was leaving. I said, “I understand. However, even though I’m leaving, it’s only for a couple months and at the very least we are friends and a few months certainly doesn’t have to change that.”
I never was the one that brought up the subject of what we were. I did not end things because I wanted a commitment from him. My perfect scenerio was we enjoy the few weeks I was still here and if the feelings (that we both soberly admitted to having) still existed, then we could pursue that in the fall. I ended things because he was saying and doing hurtful things. Enough things that it kinda seemed intentional. I’m sorry, I don’t engage in passive aggressive behavior nor do I go out of my way to hurt people.
Also, I understand what you’re saying about meeting the parents. However, this guy was bringing me along to gatherings with his extended family. In fact, we were at his Aunt’s house for a function when he told me he stayed the night at another woman’s house.
More than a FWB May 17, 2011, 11:36 pm
Seriously? Let’s get real, obviously there is a lot more to the situation than I included in the letter. However, luckily for the readers, I didn’t send an e-mail giving the play-by-play of the last six months of my life.
Also, up until a few weeks ago, he was the only who always brought up the subject of what we were. However, the ball was always in my court and yeah, I was a coward and kept defining things as FWB, because I had some horrible fear of complicating things.
More than a FWB May 18, 2011, 12:42 am
& Even though it was brought up when I ended things, he was still the one that said, “I know we have to define what we are.” But he never seemed to understand, it was about what we were, it was about him coming out of left field and being a jerk.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 12:52 pm
Congrats on handling this so well! I probably would have done something like kept it going until his birthday and then send a raunchy text message promising to “GIVE YOU A B-DAY GIFT YOU’LL NEVER FORGET” and asking him to show up dressed in a crotchless fursuit or some other really f-ed fetish garb, eventually leading him up to the bedroom where about 40 of his closest friends and family were told that a big surprise party was being held.
Surprise indeed, asshole.
honeybeenicki May 17, 2011, 1:11 pm
Hmm crotchless fursuit? Excellent idea.
Teresa May 17, 2011, 2:55 pm
are the furries creeping in?
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:26 pm
SpyGlassez May 17, 2011, 4:02 pm
They’re not exactly CREEPING.
Amy May 17, 2011, 12:55 pm
Way to have some spit and fire! You’ll do just fine!
LTC039 May 17, 2011, 1:24 pm
I’m glad you pulled yourself out of this situation & didn’t allow your self-confidence to be washed away along with this situation! Shows you’ve got good character!
SGMcG May 17, 2011, 1:43 pm
o_O That’s some fucked-up rationale that former-FWB was showing there. What did you guys have a bit of a disagreement on that he thought it was a good excuse to stay over another women’s house? Unbelievable. In any event, you got your answer and you can checkout the hometown hottie scene without any ties whatsoever. Good Luck!
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 1:48 pm
Ah, okay. I am finally beginning to realize that clearly most of you posting don’t even understand what a friends with benefits arrangement actually is…
MissDre May 17, 2011, 1:51 pm
But why was it wrong for her to end it? We get it, FWB means no relationship. But we can’t always help the way we feel, and she started to develop feelings for him. So she was honest about that, and he basically told her that he didn’t feel the same way. What was she supposed to do? Keep fucking him anyway?
MissDre May 17, 2011, 1:54 pm
It would be another thing all together if she wailed and cried and accused him of leading her on and got all hysterical on him, but she didn’t! She simply decided that this arrangement wasn’t for her anymore and moved on.
I think you should be giving this girl props for not being a drama queen about it and just simply letting it go.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:07 pm
I thought she handled it perfectly, minus the aforementioned crotchless fursuit. I just can’t see where the ex-FWB did anything wrong… they were just two people who didn’t feel the same way and needed to split. I understand why she is hurting here, but I don’t blame it on the ex.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 1:55 pm
Do ya see what straight men have to deal with, Mark? DO YA SEE?!!!
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 2:04 pm
Please! This whole follow up IS all about her being a drama queen. Whatever. Clearly she isn’t the only person on the board who can’t handle a true Friend With Benefits arrangement. And that’s fine. But you know what? It’s not the fact that she ended it that I am holding against it her, but the fact that she ENTERED it. When she clearly wasn’t ready or able to actually handle it. Women always tend to fall in love with whomever they sleep with. Guys don’t.
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:08 pm
You sound like an emotionless zombie with no soul.
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 2:12 pm
No, I just don’t create fantasy relationships in my head after being specifically told that I’m not in one….
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:20 pm
Yeah, that’s right, she made it all up in head! Because him confessing his feelings and declaring his undying love for her really just meant “come back so we can keep fucking”. Yes, you’re right. How could she possibly have been mistaken? Silly over-emotion female.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:26 pm
I think Mark’s point (not putting words in his mouth or anything), is that if the idea of the ex shacking up with another girl really bothered the LW, she had to have spoken up months ago. Waiting until it actually happened was just a recipe for pain.
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:31 pm
But she did speak up first! And I quote ” we did discuss the feelings stuff and were in **mutual agreement**”
THEN they had a disagreement about what I took to be about something unrelated, and he went and slept with another girl.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:48 pm
Either that, or the unbelievably shitty communcation dynamic in this relationship led the LW to construe a sense of mutual agreement since ‘discuss the feelings stuff’ leaves a lot of room for interpretation. It’s hard to tell. He also could have totally gotten into an argument with the FWB and banged it out with another girl for all we know.
SpyGlassez May 17, 2011, 4:05 pm
Maybe your bfs are different from mine, but discussing the “feeling stuff” is one of the last things he wants to do. Being in “mutual agreement” tends to be him blinking and nodding while I explain how the relationship is working.
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 5:54 pm
When did he ever do that? Oh, when he was hopelessly drunk and then the very next day sad it was all just that — drunken rambling. Look, all this drama started well before that, my dear. She acted all betrayed and all hurt that he slept with somebody else, but she had absolutely no right to feel that as they weren’t even dating! That’s what friends with benefits means! You get together and you have fun. No strings attached…. And so — yes, in my opinion, this whole “relationship” of hers (notice how specific I was so as not to say theirs) was made up and existed solely in her head.
Amy May 18, 2011, 1:38 pm
So she is only entitled to the feelings that she has a “Right” to? Give me a break – Sometimes people enter into a relationship thinking one thing and then feelings change…. that’s why so many couples break up. Her feelings happened to go the other way. When she figured it out (and believe it or not – sometimes it’s hard to be fully in touch with your feelings and figure them out the instant they occur) – she ended it. She had hurt feelings but decided to deal with those for a few days and then move on. Glad to know that you are so ice cold that you can completely control your feelings and heart with just your mind and intentions – most people with a little depth of soul and character aren’t quite that way.
Heather Feather May 17, 2011, 3:20 pm
And not every woman does. So chill with the stereo typing. I would never engage in a FWB relationship because I know I don’t work that way. Just because she wanted more from something, wasn’t getting it and ended it and moved on doesn’t mean she is a drama queen.
Fab6 May 17, 2011, 2:19 pm
Bitterdude just enjoys getting everyone upset. I could care less about what he has to say and I hope the LW could care less too.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:29 pm
Actually, he provides a sorely absent male POV in this forum. Last time I checked, men account for roughly 50% of people in all relationships.
Fab6 May 17, 2011, 2:39 pm
Last time I checked this is not the first time a guy got another guys back… Space and Bitter I think we get it… your dudes and you don’t seem to agree with many of the women on this topic. GOT IT. Now drop it.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:54 pm
Sorry for disagreeing with you and providing some perspective on the conversation, General Qaddafi.
melikeycheesecake May 17, 2011, 4:14 pm
So true Spaceboy… disagreeing is perfectly fine!
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 6:06 pm
Actually, we’re only trying to point out that sometimes when girls get hurt they have nobody to blame but themselves… A viewpoint that could bear closer examining on these boards as far too many LWs seem to make the same mistakes over and over and over. But fine. You know, what? I’ll just sit back and let you all pat each other on the back, “gushing you-go-girl!” cliches to one another as you gloat about how no man is gonna do you wrong. Even though, the reality is YOU did the harm to yourselves by foolishly expecting far too much out of a friends with benefits situation.
Amy May 18, 2011, 1:44 pm
Fair enough… and I’ve been in situations where men dot he same thing – start fantasizing about how wonderful things are and not living in reality. Sometimes when you are hurting it’s easier to get over it when you get mad though.
But I don’t think having hurt feelings necessarily has to be anyone’s fault. Feelings just happen – feelings of love, feelings of disappointment, feelings of anger, feelings of appreciation, etc. Sometimes they aren’t always rational – and trying to manipulate your feelings to fit in the rational bucket is isn’t a good way to deal with them and move forward in a positive manner. And – it’s nice to have some support.
Further – I don’t know that people are supporting her with a “no man is going to do you wrong” attitude – I am just glad that she realized she was in an unhealthy situation that was causing her pain and ended it rather than stick around hoping things would change. That doesn’t mean he was in the wrong – just that she didn’t stick around feeling bad when things were disappointing her.
MissDre May 17, 2011, 5:57 pm
I just want to say that I realize my comment here comes across as mean spirited and I’m sorry for that! I felt like Mark’s comment was coming across as saying that women are wrong to develop feelings, but I should have just said that instead of throwing out an insult. While I disagree with Mark on this topic I generally think he’s pretty awesome and again I’m sorry for the hostility behind my words!
I love Dear Wendy and I want to do my part in keeping this a positive, friendly community where we can all feel free to speak our minds with no fear of disrespect!
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 2:10 pm
Also, if she had just written in with: “Well, I took your advice. And found that he didn’t feel the same way. I’m kinda bummed. But we’ve both moved on… I guess he really DID just want what he told me up front and everything else was wishful thinking on my part…” Then I would say she did exactly the right thing. How mature or her. What a great head she has on her shoulders… Instead we got a rant about what an awful guy he was and blah blah blah… It was just…um, dare I say it? Not very mature or grown up at all. Far from it. Far, far from it…
LTC039 May 17, 2011, 2:11 pm
No where in her letter do I see a rant about “what an awful guy he was” I do see snarky comments, but mostly related to facts leading up to the ending situation…
Amy May 18, 2011, 1:45 pm
Me too… maybe this hits a little close to home for bitter – and the way it comes across to the guy is different than to the girls.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:14 pm
In the LW’s defense, I don’t think that she entered the arrangement with the intent of steering him towards a committed relationship. Her emotions just welled up and she didn’t handle it as well as she thought she could or maybe as well as she did in the past. I would just chalk this up to ‘shit happens’. We’ve all been in relationships or even friendships where we were way more into the other person than they were into us, and it always hurts no matter how you got there and it’s hard not to take it personally even though you know that you shouldn’t.
MsMisery May 17, 2011, 2:40 pm
Congratulations on being psychic and always knowing what’s going to happen with every situation you ever encounter. Also, you forgot that boys wear blue and girls wear pink.
Christy May 17, 2011, 3:31 pm
I don’t agree with your sentiment here. I certainly don’t think that gender stereotyping of the manner “boys wear blue and girls wear pink,” but at the same time, biological differences do exist between the sexes. As a general rule, women are more attached to their sex partners than men are–it stems from the “I want to know who fathered my Neanderthal baby” vs “I want to make as many Neanderthal babies as possible.”
SpyGlassez May 17, 2011, 4:07 pm
Up til this century, actually, girls wore blue (because it was blue and the color of heaven/virgin Mary/etc) and boys wore pink (because it was derived from red and therefore the stronger and more “manly” color). Just another reason I will only dress my babies in yellow or green.
Hana May 17, 2011, 5:39 pm
Good think you sleep with men and don’t have to worry about a woman developing feelings.
I am not homophobic at all but I think you understand this on a male perspective only and thats not how most women feel when going into a FWB. She could have been fine entering it and developed feelings after or she could have thought he liked her from the beginning. And by the way, a fwb relationship is what the two people in it say it is. They may have not been seriously dating, but they could have had an agreement that while sleeping together they don’t sleep with anyone else. Or they could have had plans that night and he got mad at the argument and ran off and slept with someone else. That is really fucked up, whether your allowed to sleep with others or not. So maybe you don’t understand their situation, what women feel or you are really bitter because the same thing is happening with you and you can’t walk away. She didn’t so anythign wrong by entering the relationship or leaving it.
LTC039 May 17, 2011, 2:08 pm
I don’t really get why being condesending is neccessary. Women definitely handle things differently then men, but that doesn’t mean we don’t get “friends with benefits.”
As another LW suggested, re-read the original letter. She states that BOTH had “drunken- fueled confessions” of feelings, he began calling her every day & would show up at her house with baked treats, etc… If I was in that position, I would feel as if he wanted something more as well. He was DEFINITELY leading her on (from her letter, I don’t know his side, none of us do), so to go on a rant & say she shouldn’t be so emotional & this is what “straight men have to deal with” is out of line. If anything it’s what WE have to deal with. At least women can talk about their feelings,most men would rather get shot in the leg three times than be honest with a woman. But I’m not going to go further into that, because then I’d be doing the same thing you are.
Point is, it’s unfair to sit there & judge her because she’s upset things didn’t work out the guy *solely* because they had *initatially* agreed to be FWB. & guess what? He was breaking that FWB agreement JUST as much as she was.
mf May 17, 2011, 2:58 pm
Yup, I totally agree. She went into it with the intention of having a FWB but developed feelings for him. He was sending her mixed signals (see: baked goods, drunken confessions), so she thought reciprocated those feelings.
I don’t blame her for being a little upset. If he didn’t have feelings for her, the first time they discussed the “feelings stuff,” he should have told her straight up, “I don’t want a relationship with you.” But he didn’t do that–he was, in the LW’s own words, in mutual agreement with her. So yeah, he did lead her on.
mf May 17, 2011, 3:00 pm
And when I say he lead on, I don’t think he necessarily did so with malicious or selfish intent. He probably just handled the situation badly or didn’t know how to let her down.
SpyGlassez May 17, 2011, 4:11 pm
And maybe he did develop feelings for her but wasn’t willing to let go of the FWB and have a relationship. She was going to be leaving, after all. I’m not saying that’s the case, I’m just saying we don’t and can’t know his side without him writing in.
kdog May 17, 2011, 2:09 pm
Um, he got the benefits for months. And he’s not exactly having his bunny boiled in the aftermath. From my observations dudes readily deal with a lot worse to get laid. Not saying I don’t disagree with you and bgm on the set-up of the relationship, but maybe not the right forum to throw up the “what dudes have to deal with” stuff.
kdog May 17, 2011, 2:12 pm
Bleh, meant not saying I disgree.
SGMcG May 17, 2011, 2:50 pm
@BGM – I’ve had FWB arrangements before I got married. I’m not so pissed off about the fact that this guy ran off to the other woman. As part of the “with benefit” arrangement, that’s his right to indulge. I AM pissed off that they had a disagreement and rather than talking it out, like you would with any FRIEND, he ran away. You don’t do that to a FRIEND, especially one who is kind enough to give you benefits in the first place AND one you introduced your parents to AND started including in get-togethers with extended family members.
If you need a moment away from your friend, take the moment. If you feel the benefits are getting too much, take a step back. Yet don’t pull a disappearing act in the process – explain yourself AND put all cards on the table before you do the next step.
LTC039 May 17, 2011, 3:00 pm
I think really the reason that that doesn’t happen is because at the end of the day, sex complicates situations. As much as friends as they may have been, they’ll never be the same.
I’ve never had a FWB situation, but idk if I could handle going back to being normal friends…Is it possible to revert back to the way things were? I’m curious…
MissDre May 17, 2011, 3:02 pm
I think yes and no. I had a FWB for years, we’d always hook up whenever we were both single. Then when I decided to be celibate, he was totally ok with that and we still hung out and chatted and did stuff together like friends do. That went on for months and I was truly happy to count him among my friends. But now that I have a boyfriend, he never talks to me anymore.
oldie May 17, 2011, 4:29 pm
He may well have picked up on your boyfriend’s discomfort with the situation. It is easy to be a platonic friend of a single woman, much less so once they have coupled up.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:05 pm
Yes, but it takes a while and doesn’t usually happen. Not impossible though.
SGMcG May 17, 2011, 3:17 pm
I don’t think I could get my friendships back the way they were with all my FWB arrangements. Most of them occurred while I was in college and the physical distance between them and I now as to when it was back then is a barrier that’s difficult to manage my regular friendships with. Do I still respect all my FWB that were kind enough to share time with me? Absolutely. I may not talk to all of them now, but for a few of them there was no need to. We knew what we wanted getting in was truly physical and we had nothing but kindness when the benefit arrangement and subsequent communication ended.
bittergaymark May 17, 2011, 6:11 pm
But you don’t know he ran away! It just says that they had a disagreement and that he slept with somebody else. But I certainly didn’t take it as one led to the other. Maybe I am misreading the LW’s intentions, but I didn’t take away from this that they had a disagreement and so he went out and banged some chick out of spite.
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:36 pm
Ok starting a new comment:
Attention men of this forum, I don’t think any of us women here are putting down the guy. Maybe he was a little bit of a whiny biatch for all the drunk texting, but all of us here are clear that this started out as a FWB situation and I don’t think any of us have anything against this dude for not wanting it to turn into more. At least, I certainly don’t hold anything against him.
We all understand what it’s like to be disappointed when someone isn’t as into us as we are into them, so us girls are supporting the LW and giving her props for ending it, rather than dragging it out, and moving on with a positive attitude.
Spaceboy, you said above somewhere that we should just chalk this up to “shit happens”. And I agree. Shit happens, it didn’t work out, but nobody is really to blame.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:43 pm
I completely agree with you agreeing with me.
MissDre May 17, 2011, 2:47 pm
I still think you are totally awesome, but I just can’t forgive you for calling cats a**holes. That really broke my heart 🙁 🙁
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:03 pm
Eh. Once you get used to the emotional attachment that dogs show, cats just kind of come off like aloof jerks. I’m sure that if I ever lived with a cat, I would be able to pick up on its little personality traits and project something into those.
The new show ‘My Cat From Hell’ does a great job in explaining cats to non-cat people. He calls himself a cat behaviorist instead of a cat trainer and his clients cat guardians instead of cat owners. Basically, the idea is that cats are going to do what they’re programmed biologically to do no matter what. Dogs take on their individual personalities much more distinctly.
Another quote from Douglas Coupland: “If dogs were three times the size they are now, they would still make great friends. If cats were twice the size they are now, they would be illegal.”
MissDre May 17, 2011, 3:08 pm
I find it strange that people think cats are aloof. Both of my cats always lay on my chest/lap while I watch tv. They purr, and rub my face with their faces. They like to groom me, they LOVE endless cuddles and they follow me everywhere around the house and they sleep pressed up against me all night long. My little one always begs to be picked up, and when I do, she purrs and rests her head on my shoulders. They are the most affectionate little babies you could possibly imagine! Oh yes, they always come to greet me at the front door when I come home too! 🙂
TheGirl May 17, 2011, 4:28 pm
Me too! My cat is not the least bit aloof – he’s a total lover. Part of it is how you treat them. A cat that is shown a lot of attention will grow to love it, a cat that is left alone all the time will eventually prefer to be left alone. The other part, I think, is that most cats are one or two person cats, meaning that they don’t take well to others, but are affectionate with the people they label as ‘theirs’.
LennyBee May 17, 2011, 3:39 pm
My cats greet me at the door when I come home. And they cuddle on the couch when I sit down. One follows me around the house, sitting on chairs while I cook, etc. She’s never more than 3 feet away. Not all cats are aloof.
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 3:08 pm
TheOtherMe May 17, 2011, 3:09 pm
( ugh … was referring to the “you broke my heart” comment )
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 3:32 pm
“I knew it was you Spaceboy…you broke my heart….you broke my heart.”
Budjer May 17, 2011, 2:48 pm
I don’t know…I kind of think that guy shouldn’t be doing any more FWB situations either. He clearly couldn’t handle the situation as well.
spaceboy761 May 17, 2011, 2:50 pm
mf May 17, 2011, 2:59 pm
Mainer May 17, 2011, 3:32 pm
Thoughts: I think this ended overall on a good note. But, I do agree with BGM in the fact that she over-reacted to this whole situation (not just the sleeping with another girl thing) and may not have fully understood what FWB entails. Few specifics:
– Baking a girl treats, introducing her to your family, and taking her along on trips (family or otherwise) does NOT mean a guy wants to date you. This is what friends do. My family knows my female friends, they sometimes do stuff with us. This is a friend’s relationship. The whole idea behind FWB is you to are friends (and likewise do the above mentioned stuff), only you get to have sex with them as well. At NO POINT does that mean they are required to treat you any different than a friend, and you need to separate friend-time and sex-time. You do friend shit, but that is all it is. Don’t read into it.
– Drunkenly “confessing” feelings. Of course two friends are going to have feelings for one another. You can’t be friends with someone, let alone sleep with them, and feel absolutely nothing for them. Having feelings for someone does NOT equate being in love with them. This may have been where she misinterpreted these DRUNKEN remarks. If one of my female friends asked if I had feelings for her, I would say yes. Of sober mind, I would have the decency to clarify they are NOT romantic, but in a drunken state it is easy to understand where there may have been misrepresentation.
Here is why FWB gets hairy quick. You read into shit. You take an ordinary action, one that would be looked upon as mere kindness from anyone else who hasn’t been inside you, and you start thinking there is meaning behind it when there isn’t. That is all that happened here.
She developed feelings for him. It happens. She’s human. Congrats. I applaud the guy on telling her he hooked up with someone else, rather than trying to hide it from her. I think it wasn’t appropriate for her to get upset at him (she has every right to be upset or feel badly about the event, but not at HIM). But I also applaud her on following through with her feelings for him and asking if he wanted it to be more. Then when he baulked, she left. It ended properly, but I think drama ensued where it didn’t necessarily need to.
oldie May 17, 2011, 4:25 pm
This is so true. She says in the letter that even after they shared their feelings that they specifically did not name or rename the nature of their relationship. So there was a clear opportunity for them to declare themselves more than FWB, if that’s what they wanted to be. Since they did not do so, they are still FWB who have spent some time talking about muddled feelings about each other. Given that, his sleeping with another woman should not spark the feelings of betrayal that it obviously did.
sobriquet May 17, 2011, 4:40 pm
Hmm. I understand the confusion… when you hang out with a friend you have sex with, it will feel a lot like dating. I think you both simply had different definitions of “friends with benefits.” You thought it should purely be physical, he thought you could hang out and do friend stuff on top of the physical. Communication issue. Of course he liked you… he just didn’t want to commit. I’m sure that’s why after “discussing feelings stuff” you still didn’t put a label on the relationship (i.e. discuss exclusivity).
Either way, hopefully you learned from this experience?
fallonthecity May 17, 2011, 11:57 pm
I think it sounds like the LW handled things really well. I’ve never had a FWB thing going on, because I like clear-cut relationships in my life and it seems like that could get pretty damn messy. But from my uninformed perspective… I mean, neither party was perfect, and I know sometimes this stuff sucks, but sounds like it ended with as little fallout as possible. Good luck with whatever comes next for you!