In a feature I call “Your Turn,” in which you, the readers, get to answer the question, I’m presenting the following letter without commentary from me:
And yesterday, he admitted to me he has masturbated to my friend’s facebook pictures. Not once, but two or three times. The same friend. I am hurt more by this than by him jerking off to porn. His sexual fantasies are being fulfilled by someone I know personally — someone who is a real person in our lives. I am really hurt because I feel he cheated on me. And on top of that I feel stupid for believing that modesty and class is valued by men like him. I don’t have a bunch of pictures in bikinis and skimpy clothing on my Facebook. And I feel stupid for believing him when he tells me that I look great, even when I feel I need to lose some weight. When all that really tickles his fancy are skinny girls in skimpy clothing.
I know he is working out his problems, but I fear that eventually, though he’ll make peace with himself, I won’t make peace with him or this feeling. — Not a Skinny Facebook Girl
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iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 9:08 am
Wow. I’d be pissed if my boyfriend told me that too. What he does on his own time is his own business, but that is not something I’d want to know.
I just want to tell you that you are not obligated to stay with him. You are never obligated to stay with someone who doesn’t make you happy. It’s great that he is working on his issues, and I know 12-step programs are a lot of times about making amends with people you have hurt with your behavior, but what he did by telling you about the whole fb-wanking only caused more pain.
MOA or not, but if you stay with him I’d make sure he knows that he hurt you. Just because he’s got a problem and is trying to heal does not give him carte blanche to be hurtful in the name of his therapy.
Muffy February 6, 2012, 9:36 am
“Just because he’s got a problem and is trying to heal does not give him carte blanche to be hurtful in the name of his therapy”
YES! I find that all too often people are hurtful to one another in the name of “being honest”.
LW: it’s one thing to be honest and it’s another to be an asshole. Your bf falls into the latter category. He should never have told you that. And I fully understand if this is something you just can’t move past. I wouldn’t be able to stop imagining that I’m just someone he settled for.
Also: isn’t one of the steps making amends to people you’ve hurt by your addiction? Not going out there and hurting them more!!
I would MOA – I probably would’ve moved on when I found out he had a pornogaphy addiction. Watching it is ok, but being addicted to it? I couldn’t handle that. Don’t stay with someone if they make you uncomfortable.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 10:00 am
Yeah, I would have too if it were a full-on addiction. Catching him in the act a few times, fine. An addiction, where sex in the relationship is reduced to zero because I’m not a farting donkey in leather? I wouldn’t stick around for that.
It’s a really interesting topic after the overstimulation thing on the Friday links though.
rainbow February 6, 2012, 11:04 am
“An addiction, where sex in the relationship is reduced to zero because I’m not a farting donkey in leather?”
I love you for that.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 11:46 am
Aw, shucks.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:07 am
Yup. Looove the ‘making amends’ nonsense. So basically it gives someone the right to be a total jerkoff, let you move on from it, then come back whenever they feel like it looking for forgiveness for themselves. Has nothing to do with the person who was hurt and ALL to do with the dickhead feeling better about themselves.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 10:47 am
No pun intended with the jerkoff thing right? 😛
slamy February 6, 2012, 1:57 pm
I had something in the past occur that I just couldn’t move past. I broke up with him. We’d dated for 3 years but I couldn’t look him in the face without thinking of that situation and it was more beneficial to start over with someone else than to try to repair what had been irreparably damaged. It was just easier.
I spelled irreparably right on the first try… hell yeah.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 2:19 pm
FWIW, I only thumbed you up because of your spelling.
🙂
In all seriousness, your story is really sad. Glad you moved past it.
ReginaRey February 6, 2012, 9:13 am
I find it interesting that you say you “Fear you won’t make peace with him or this feeling.” And I say…why do you NEED to make peace with it? It sounds like you’ve left yourself only one option – staying with him and learning to deal with his addiction. But that’s certainly not your only option. Not everyone has the ability or desire to stay in a relationship with someone who has an addiction.
I’m sure you’ve heard that relationships are fundamentally about trust. Right now, you feel emotionally cheated on. You worry that you’ll never be able to believe him if he says he hasn’t been using pornography or looking at pictures of skimpily clad girls (and girls you KNOW, no less). In addition to that, his addiction is having the very negative effect of undercutting your self-esteem. Ultimately, if you want to stay in this relationship, you have to be able to fully trust him. You have to believe him when he says he hasn’t looked at porn; you have to trust that he isn’t cheating on you; you can’t snoop through his phone or computer or be wracked with worry every time he goes out without you. And you also can’t keep feeling that you’re not attractive enough for him.
If you realize, which I believe you’re headed toward now, that you just can’t trust him fully and that your self-esteem around him will never be healthy, then you need to MOA. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting or being unable to be a partner to an addict. Your first priority is taking care of yourself. A relationship that makes you feel worse about yourself and that makes you lose confidence and security is not one you should continue to fight for.
meg February 6, 2012, 12:29 pm
I think you’re right about the direction this relationship will probably go, unfortunately. I never really minded porn or my boyfriends looking at it and was always super confident and secure and had great self-esteem, all that. Then I dated my last boyfriend, a porn addict, for almost four years. When I realized how sort of out of control it was, he said he’d stop, always told me he hadn’t been using it, I would believe him, then stumble across it (he would forget to close out the pop up ads on MY COMPUTER when he was done, and I found magazines around our house), then eventually lost all trust in him not only in regards to porn but in most other areas of our lives. I was so torn up inside wondering why I wasn’t good enough or pretty enough for him, why he would choose porn over me, and what would happen when I got older and they stayed the same age (he would search “teens,” barf). I mean, I was in physical pain; my heart was broken through most of our relationship, because I fucking LOVED this kid and couldn’t bear to leave. My self-worth plummeted and I felt disgusting about myself (and him). I became the insecure girlfriend second-guessing everything he said, and snooping, and wondering who he was thinking about when we were having sex, and I couldn’t even watch movies with him with nudity in it without cringing and my heart racing with frustration. And I realized I hated the crazy person I had morphed into, and it wasn’t my fault, and I left him. It’s been 7 months and he still calls/texts everyday (I never answer) begging me to give him another chance (he’s already had about 12). I feel a hundred times better about myself now that I’m free of all that unnecessary drama and hurt. I’m starting to get back to my old confident self who likes the way I look and feels generally happy and secure. Although I fear how I’ll react to “normal” porn use in any future relationships; I think I may be a little permanently fucked in the head from my ex.
I hope the LW can sit down and really be honest with herself about whether she’s strong enough to really mentally and emotionally take this dude’s issues on (and whether she wants to). Because a porn addiction can be just as harmful (or more so, in my opinion) to the addict’s partner. I really wish I would have left him the first time he lied to me and salvaged a little more of my mental stability (ahh, fuck you, hindsight).
LW, if you’re thinking you owe it to him to stay or help him or something because you love him, I promise you, this is an EXCELLENT reason to get the eff outta there and not look back. Yeah, it’ll hurt to leave, but it’ll probably hurt a million times worse to stay.
ReginaRey February 6, 2012, 1:09 pm
It’s really great that you got out of that relationship. It’s amazing how an unhealthy relationship can morph you into someone you don’t even recognize. I’ve been there, too. Also…if he’s calling/texting everyday…why not block his number? Or just go get another number that he won’t know about? Just for your sake, it would fully eliminate the temptation to ever text or call him back.
SweetPea February 6, 2012, 2:16 pm
Meg… been there. It definitely feels terrible when you have been reduced to having to NAG in order to have maybe once a month (bad, unenthused!) sex when you know he is jerking off daily to teenagers. Definitely is a sucker punch to the self-esteem. Thankfully, I have moved past that period of my life. But, I still have an unhealthy dislike of porn because of it. I just prefer not knowing. Yea, it is WAY better to just be blissfully unaware! So… I can’t imagine how bad it must feel for the LW, knowing details.
John Rohan February 6, 2012, 8:04 pm
Wow, this is probably the first time I have ever agreed with Regina.
The only small caveat I would add is that personally I’m very skeptical about diagnoses of “addiction to porn”, or calling this guy an “addict”. You either like porn, or you don’t. But even if you like it an awful lot, to call it an “addiction” as if he’s going through heroin withdrawal is a little far fetched.
ape_escape February 6, 2012, 8:28 pm
Considering that the Letter Writer herself called it an “addiction” in the first sentence, and that she probably knows more about the situation than any of us do, AND that the boyfriend is going through a program to deal with it – does one attend 12-step meetings while considering their problem to *not* be an addiction? – I think we can safely use the A-word in discussing the issue without being alarmist.
Anna February 7, 2012, 3:14 am
I rarely agree with you, John, but in this case I do. Just because the LW thinks her bf is an addict and somehow convinced him that he is, enough to go to a 12-step program, doesn’t mean he really is. He might just really enjoy porn. It drives me crazy in today’s society when the word “addiction” is used to describe things that you ENJOY or a hobby that someone else doesn’t approve of. Just because someone else doesn’t see merit in your hobby or thinks you do it too much doesn’t make it an addiction. If this guy couldn’t hold a job or live a functional life because he’s too busy sitting at home all day with his dick in his hand, that’s another story. That’s beyond recreational enjoyment.
Just for an example…my brother is a strict fundamentalist Christian while my sister in law is a Christian who is much more relaxed about her faith. He thinks it is wrong to take even one sip of alcohol, while she thinks it is fine to have a couple glasses of wine on Sat night with her sisters. Just because he disapproves of her drinking, that doesn’t make her an alcoholic!
I do think it is f’ed up that he told her about jerking off to her FB friend. I think it’s pretty normal for guys to fantasize about their girlfriend’s hot friends, but honestly I don’t want to know about it! I’ve fantasized about other guys but I don’t consider that cheating and I certainly don’t describe it to my boyfriend.
Amanda February 6, 2012, 9:15 am
What a disrespectful ass! I can’t believe that he told you that he masturbated to your friend’s picture. It’s one thing to do it, but to actually tell you about it is absolutely unacceptable. LW, you deserve better. Spend some time being single to figure out what you want in a relationship because this guy isn’t it. Good luck
cporoski February 6, 2012, 9:21 am
totally agree. How did this come up in conversations?
Leroy February 6, 2012, 9:28 am
maybe it’s part of his 12 step process.
cporoski February 6, 2012, 11:18 am
ok, maybe. That is the only way this could make sense. I was just thinking. “who shares this?” Were they playing scrabble? On the way out of church?
mel February 6, 2012, 7:17 pm
Scrabble! Church!
This made me giggle way too hard.
ActiasLuna February 6, 2012, 9:29 am
Maybe it has something to do with the program he is attemding? IDK. LW, if you don’t think this is something you can make peace with, there is no shame in moving on. Do what is best for you. Good Luck!
fast eddie February 6, 2012, 10:09 am
Being jealous of his fantasy is a waste of energy. She said he admitted it, perhaps meaning she pried it out of him. Were that the case doubt must have existed beforehand. This issue isn’t going away ever. Everybody has desires that aren’t satisfied by their SO but acting on them is a separate issue. A very thorny situation to be sure but he’s actively working on it. Hopefully she’ll be proactive in that process for resolution.
jlyfsh February 6, 2012, 9:28 am
Yeah I agree too. I mean even if you did this, WHY tell your SO? Maybe he thinks it’s part ofthe 12 steps? This is one of those things you shouldn’t admit to your SO because really they’re not going to make them feel better it’s just going to make you feel less guilty.
meant to reply to amanda! and now i can’t delete it. oh well!
Christy February 6, 2012, 9:29 am
There is such a thing as overdisclosure in a relationship. Do you really need to know that he’s masturbated to pictures of your facebook friend? More importantly, has he done it since you’ve indicated that it bothers you? If he’s changed his behavior, then I don’t see a problem with it.
And just because you masturbate to something doesn’t mean you want it in real life. I’ve certainly masturbated to ridiculous, ridiculous things, but it doesn’t mean that I want those for real OR that I’m not incredibly attracted to my girlfriend.
Do you masturbate? To the thought of anything other than your boyfriend? Because that’s basically what he’s doing.
And for the love of God, keep some of the mystery. You do NOT need to know what he masturbates to unless he’s telling you some sort of fantasy he wants to play out WITH YOU.
Sorry these thoughts are sort of discombobulated.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:10 am
It pisses me off that people think if someone posts a photo on facebook it gives everyone free reign to do this. So digusting. I guess its what you sign up for putting pictures up there to begin with, but still. Oh I am angry today.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 10:22 am
Now i’m sitting here trying to think of any pictures I have on facebook that are “masturbate worthy”. Gross. I think i’m in the clear, but it still creeps me out a little bit that guys do that. Like you said, I guess that’s what you get for having any pictures at all but, but still, it’s creepy.
katie February 6, 2012, 8:30 pm
thats totally where my mind went to!!! eww!
Christy February 6, 2012, 10:40 am
I mean, LBH, I’m gonna be honest with you. I’ve masturbated at the memory of a girl I saw walking down the street. And she was fully clothed. She was just hot. What about the women who fantasize about George Clooney? (I understand that he’s supposed to be very attractive.) People fantasize all the time. I’ve definitely fantasized about real people before. It’s sort of skeezy to think that people are fantasizing about you (unless you’re an exhibitionist and you think it’s hot).
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:53 am
You have a point, definately. Just the idea though of say, my little sister whose in college, posting a photo of her at the beach and it being used for someone’s spank bank…gross. But I guess you’re right, there maybe is no difference in a woman walking down the street and looking hot. Or fantasizing about George Clooney.
Flanagan.er February 6, 2012, 11:46 am
h’s where I draw the line. Masturbate to thoughts or pictures of me all you want. But once you *tell* me that you done so, you’ve forced me to acknowledge your fantasy, and that’s not ok. There’s no reason to tell someone something like that beyond making them uncomfortable, and it’s definitely harassment.
slamy February 6, 2012, 2:01 pm
I agree. Maybe sort of ok to go… REALLY not ok to say you’ve done it!
slamy February 6, 2012, 2:16 pm
to DO***
landygirl February 6, 2012, 11:42 am
I need to stop posting photos of my dog oh FB!! Eeeeeeewwwwwww.
Kare February 6, 2012, 12:33 pm
Some people do need a bit more discretion with their facebook photos. Like when someone posts a picture of themselves in a skimpy bikini during the middle of winter in their bathroom. Or when you can almost see their labia.
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 9:29 am
My girlfriend is on the way out, and one of the major reasons is that she consciously refuses to understand that men are more physically attracted to slender women. She’s gained 30 lbs. in the five years we’ve been together, with about 10-15 in the first year and the rest gradually coming on. For the “natural life processes” objectors, she’s 28. The value of the physical side of our relationship has declined so much that the overall value for me has gotten close to zero, given other concurrent and related problems. One of the fortunate benefits of having so little to lose is that honesty about this issue, which no woman I’ve ever met in my life ever wants to hear about in person, becomes possible. “Why don’t you touch me?” You know why. You just want to continue to believe that anything other than the obvious creates physical attraction. I’m in great shape because I hit the gym regularly and don’t kill the benefits with booze. I’m a professional success. I have standards.
Does this dynamic exist in your relationship?
Flake February 6, 2012, 9:48 am
“men are more physically attracted to slender women”
Please speak for yourself.
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 9:58 am
I do speak for myself. What I said also holds for the large majority of men in this country and across the world, even if some men make compromises.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:00 am
I will repeat, please speak for yourself. You have no idea what holds true for anyone else other than yourself.
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:07 am
Don’t be silly. Someone can tell me their preferences, and then I have at minimum my preferences plus one more.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:12 am
Yes, and then that person will go and log on to some “Big and Beautiful” site because there is no way in hell anyone who knows you and your “standards” will admit to you that his idea of beautiful is way broader, and has room for such silly things as “character” and “sense of humour”.
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:17 am
He didn’t say anything about what he thinks is “beautiful”, just what is “physically attractive” for him. There is a difference.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:19 am
OK, replace my “beautiful” with “attractive”.
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:21 am
Again, that is very broad, Yes, character and a sense of humor can make someone attractive, but he’s talking about PHYSICAL attractiveness. “Character” isn’t a physical trait. Nor is a sense of humor.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:28 am
I guess you are right. But I don’t think that physical attributes and personality traits can be completely separate. Lets say I find Angelina Jolie attractive. It’s nor only because she is slender, but also because I “think” she has a great personality. Jennifer Aniston is also conventionally attractive, but not to me because I perceive her as whiny and annoying.
(DISCLAMER: I used those two just to illustrate my point)
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:33 am
They are completely seperate. One is a physical attribute. One is a personality trait. Whether you use both or each to view how you rate people is a personal choice.
The guy you are bashing is ONLY talking about the physical attributes of his girlfriend. That’s it. He didn’t say OVERALL he doesn’t find her attractive, only physically.
Yes, other things contribute to whether or not you find someone attractive, but we all (for the most part) have our “types.” I like tall guys. He prefers slender women. It’s not a crime.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 10:33 am
Um, you prefer Angie over Jen? We can’t be friends anymore.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:40 am
First of all, I am not bashing him. But I do think it is wrong to make such a general statement as to say that all man secretly prefer slender women.
Also, the way he said that “she is on her way out” gives me an impression that it’s not just the physical attraction that is over for him, but that generally he is no longer impressed with her.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:41 am
@Iseeshiny: I honestly could not care less about either of them. I think their names in my example are pretty interchangeable 🙂
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:56 am
Yes, generalizing statements are usually trouble.
And he said as much, that the weight gain was “one of the major reasons.” He is only talking about the phyical side of it, but you are assuming more. And you are using those assumptions for the basis of your condesending remarks. He could think she has the greatest laugh and makes the best jokes but that is not what his post is about and something he didn’t even comment on.
Flake February 6, 2012, 12:16 pm
I do not find my remarks particularly condescending.
1. “she consciously refuses to understand that men are more physically attracted to slender women” – that is condescending…
2. “Why don’t you touch me?” You know why. You just want to continue to believe that anything other than the obvious creates physical attraction”
3. “I’m in great shape because I hit the gym regularly and don’t kill the benefits with booze. I’m a professional success. I have standards”
Now those are condescending…
3.
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:20 am
See, this is the kind of comment I appreciate. You actually read what I said.
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:28 am
I did. And unfortunately, you probably won’t be able to talk anyone into (or out of) any opnion than the one they have now. It doesn’t work like that around here.
The fact that you made a sweeping generalization about a group of people (men), regardless of all the Victoia Secret commercials, popular actresses/models, is Strike One.
Good Luck!
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 10:45 am
Actually, Something More, what bothers me personally more than the sweeping generalizations in this instance was the implication that as a professional success he has more of a right to “standards” than anyone else. It made him sound less like someone with a healthy self-esteem and more like an arrogant and self-important ass.
Additionally, as his comment relates to the LW, it sounded like he was blaming the boyfriends addiction on her weight, which is something I take issue with. We are all responsible for our own actions. If the bf was really turned off by the LW’s hypothetical weight gain (for all we know she has always consdered herself overweight), then yes, she would be responsible for the loss of attraction. She is not, however, responsible for her boyfriend’s addiction.
Something More February 6, 2012, 11:20 am
I guess if you read it that way. I didn’t. I read it as information about himself as separate characteristics.
1. I’m in great shape because I hit the gym regularly and don’t kill the benefits with booze.
2. I’m a professional success.
3. I have standards.
And taken into the context of this post, I could see that also. But I think there is a fine line between “blaming” and “giving reasons for.” In HIS expericence he doesn’t find his girlfriend attractive, therefore he might be giving his view on what the problem is with the LW.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 11:43 am
And I’m sure that multiple opposing viewpoints on this issue will help the LW in making a reasoned, rational decision on where to go from here.
But I would be a lot more inclined to think his little anecdote was relevant if he admitted to a torrid love affair with his mouse and keyboard – if having a girlfriend he finds unattractive hasn’t made him become a raging porn addict or start masturbating to photos of her friends’ vacation to Belize last summer then it’s less a comment on the LW’s problem and more him complaining that his girlfriend has gained weight.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:36 am
I think you also forget that this modern idea of what is beautiful, attractive and desirable, at least as far as women are concerned, is relatively new. It has been shoved down everyone’s throat to a point that anyone who considers any other ideal is ridiculed. Historically, slender has always been associated with poverty and poor health, and in many cultures that still holds true.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 11:48 am
It really isn’t. Preferences are actually very consistent across cultures and periods. There does seem to be a correlation with resource scarcity – low resource environments may increase the preference for higher BMI’s. But the idea that there was some golden age in which obesity was considered attractive is largely a PC fiction.
Flake February 6, 2012, 12:09 pm
There is a big gap between “slender” and “obese”. Most women fall somewhere in between. And I can name quite a few cultures that still would not choose “slender” to describe their ideal woman.
MissDre February 6, 2012, 11:57 am
I have a very dear male friend who LOVES big girls. The bigger the better. He’s totally turned on by girls 200lbs or over.
My wonderful boyfriend is not attracted to skinny girls. He’s a fit guy, very athletic, but he likes a girl with meat on her bones. I’m about a size 12 and I’ve talked about wanting to lose 10 or 12 lbs and he tells me, “Please don’t get too skinny”. If I’m worry about my ass being too big in a certain outfit, he’s busy grabbing it.
So, yes. Some guys prefer thicker girls.
Will.i.am February 6, 2012, 3:14 pm
I’ve always preferred thicker girls. In my experiences growing up, thinner women weren’t attracted to me, because I was a heavier guy. Thicker girls seemed to prefer heavier guys so it kind of worked out that way.
I’m not into obese women, but a size 12 or 14 is right up my alley.
jlyfsh February 6, 2012, 10:11 am
flake obviously all men are only attracted to one type of woman. i guess i’ll have to go and ask my husband if he made compromises being with me since i’m not perfect. oh wait, no ones perfect, even those people who are professional successes and hit the gym regularly? people make compromises to be with them too? who knew.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:13 am
Yep… I would rather compromise on looks then on such things as decency, dependability and general strength of character. But those are just my standards….
atlimbo February 6, 2012, 11:16 am
Flake, I’ve found this whole conversation fascinating seeing as when me and my boyfriend got together years ago and moved in together last year, he was hell bent on helping me gain weight (a personal goal of mind for years due to health reasons but one which I was always super shy/embarrassed by – who wants to hear about the chick TRYING to gain weight? Right?). I finally hit 105 (from 95) after ten months and he was all “maybe we can try for 110?” out of concern for my health, lol.
Flake February 6, 2012, 11:19 am
Oh, I know a few man that really really wish that their GF’s would put on a few pounds. And none of those girls are skinny.
Renee February 6, 2012, 10:29 am
Actually no, men are atracted to a hip/waist ratio, too skinny is a sign of being unhealthy and not fertile.
landygirl February 6, 2012, 11:46 am
Let me fix that for you…You are more physically attracted to slender women.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 9:50 am
Then why are you still with her if you find her unattractive? And do you have pornography addiction as a result of her 30 lbs? I’d hate to think of a professional success being reduced to a panting, groaning jerk-off (in the literal sense of course) clutching his equipment in the home office because he is so disgusted by his long-term, especially if he has standards.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 9:52 am
I mean, really, you should have dumped her after those first ten pounds – obviously that’s way too much for the first year!
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:06 am
Do you have a vested interest in denying any physical basis for male attraction? What’s the point of trying to undermine my speculative, web-forum value if there’s no connection between that value and the physical standards I can keep?
To answer your substantive questions, I question whether pornography addiction exists, and like I mentioned before, the girlfriend is on her way out. Our trajectories are different, but it takes time to make arrangements. I’m not going to boot her to the curb.
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:16 am
I ma sure that the if your GF knew that the only thing keeping you there is your need for time to make arrangements, she would have been out of there yesterday.
Taylor February 6, 2012, 10:18 am
The “physical basis for male attraction” (and female attraction) is more nuanced than “slender” (an easy source for this is , although there’s a lot of literature out there). Your opinion isn’t the argument (slender is the basis of your attraction, sure), it’s the blanket statement that people disagree with.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 10:18 am
Why so defensive? If anything I think I adequately conveyed my admiration for a professional success having standards, and your confidence in believing that all men have the same unilateral preferences in women as you do. I’m completely with you – I don’t understand how anyone 30+ lbs overweight – man or woman – is ever able to claw a meaningful romantic relationship out of life. They’re probably just all in relationships based on a pretense, and their partners fantasize about athletes while they’re doing the deed. It’s like lying back and thinking of England, if England were really into tennis and kept a reasonable BMI.
landygirl February 6, 2012, 12:14 pm
Trolls tend to be defensive when they are called on their errors. Life is tough when you live under a bridge.
Violet February 6, 2012, 1:53 pm
Iseeshiny is awesome. 🙂
Imsostartled February 6, 2012, 3:44 pm
I’d double thumb up you if I could! You rock! I’ve never been a “slender” girl, but have been at a healthy weight throughout my relationship with my fiance. In fact he weighs less then me! He’s naturally very thin, but loves that I have some meat on my bones. He gets a bit pissy actually when I try to lose a few pounds since he’s attached to the size of my bum and doesn’t want it to go away. 😛
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 4:24 pm
You guys! I just got warm fuzzies. I can’t even… aw.
MJ February 6, 2012, 9:53 am
If the overall value of your relationship is zero, then you need to end it now. As a professional success, you should have no trouble finding a slender woman who meets your standards.
(And if you don’t think women aren’t aware of what men supposedly find attractive, you are delusional. We see it every fucking day.)
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:09 am
Close to zero, not zero. Like I mentioned elsewhere, arrangements take time.
landygirl February 6, 2012, 12:15 pm
Arranging what? Give us all a break.
oldie February 6, 2012, 9:53 am
You sound more than a little narcissistic and douchey. Stop belittling your gf and MOA. She’ll find someone else who appreciates her as she is.
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:10 am
You don’t actually know anything about my relationship except for what I’ve laid out. Your use of the standard template for trying to influence relationship attitudes is noted. Thanks!
landygirl February 6, 2012, 12:12 pm
I didn’t even know trolls could have relationships! You learn something new everyday.
oldie February 6, 2012, 3:47 pm
True, but what you layed out and added to it in subsequent posts is quite enough.
Christy February 6, 2012, 9:54 am
I want to preface what I’m about to say with the fact that I understand how important physical attraction is in a relationship, and I respect that your girlfriend’s weight gain diminished her attractiveness in your eyes.
But I think it’s unfair to make a blanket statement like “men are more physically attracted to slender women.” My main objection is to the idea that all men are this way. That’s categorically untrue. Many men are attracted to larger women. Look at the societal fascination with Christina Hendricks, for example. I wouldn’t call her slender.
Of course, there’s a big difference between not being slender and being obese. And a thirty pound weight gain is nothing to scoff at. (I say this from the other side, having lost 55 pounds. The first 30 pounds lost made me look substantially different.) So i understand that her weight gain could definitely decrease her level of attractiveness.
I’m going to dive into the standard advice things for your situation: do you cook healthy meals for you and your gf? Do you invite her to work out with you? Did you all of a sudden decide that she wasn’t attractive anymore? etc, etc.
And just so you know, the last two sentences in your first paragraph change the entire tone of what you wrote. You start off by sounding like a guy who’s lamenting the end of his relationship, but by ending with “I’m a professional success. I have standards.”, you come across as a bit of a douchecanoe.
jlyfsh February 6, 2012, 9:57 am
i completely agree with your statement. it’s one thing to admit that physical changes in your SO affect your attraction to them. it’s another to then say it the way he did.
Taylor February 6, 2012, 10:11 am
Well said! And I do hope douchecanoe catches on =)
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:16 am
The relevant measure is hip to waist ratio. Curves aren’t the same as overweight, and Christina Hendricks is not an example of what I’m talking about.
As to your behavioral questions, don’t they imply that I’m responsible for her appearance? Am I? I don’t think so. For the record, she dutifully pays for a gym membership she doesn’t use.
The point of my post wasn’t to carry a certain tone through from beginning to end. It was to explain what happened. My ducks are in a row, with the one exception I mentioned.
Christy February 6, 2012, 10:31 am
No, my behavioral questions reflect that you are responsible for your happiness in your relationship. Since your girlfriend’s weight gain is making you so unhappy, you should do what you can to fix it. Ways to fix it include what I mentioned. If working out together becomes a fun habit for the two of you, then your girlfriend will likely lose weight. Or, if you keep fixing delicious healthy meals for the two of you, then she might get a new favorite recipe.
And I really am curious to learn how you came to this realization about her weight gain (that it made her so unattractive). Did your attraction wane gradually as she gained weight? If so, why not invite her to the gym with you? Or did you realize it all of a sudden? In that case, what made you realize?
SweetPea February 6, 2012, 10:24 am
I would agree with your advice about cooking healthy meals and trying to exercise together… IF it seemed like he really cared about this woman. IF there seemed like something worth saving.
I totally understand the need for physical attraction. I have been on dates where the idea of kissing the guy at the end of the date was just unfathomable because I wasn’t attracted.
But… dude… your level of ego makes you sound pretty detestable yourself. Good luck with that as a single man. Most woman don’t care how much you work out or how professionally successful you are if you act like a douchecanoe.
TaraMonster February 6, 2012, 1:10 pm
Exactly.
Dude. You’re talking about this woman as if she’s an inventory checklist. Standards are great. I’ve got them! I think by all these replies you can rest assured that you really do sound like a douchecanoe (I love this btw!).
This whole conversation is making me hear that “I’m sexy and I know it” song in my head, but really just the part where he says “I work out!”
SweetPea February 6, 2012, 1:56 pm
I know that song is supposed to be a joke… but I hate it! Because I know there are guys (like “this is predictable”) that really feel this way. And it is so gross!
silver_dragon_girl February 6, 2012, 9:56 am
I wish that in order to become a “professional success” it was necessary to have a more respectful attitude towards others than you clearly do (or rather, do NOT have).
this is predictable February 6, 2012, 10:17 am
If it makes you feel better, I’d never tell a woman at work that this may be the reason that her relationship isn’t working out. Of course, she probably shouldn’t even tell me about her relationship failure if she’s a professional.
silver_dragon_girl February 6, 2012, 11:01 am
What does that have to do with anything? If I am reading your above comments correctly, you’re stringing along your current girlfriend until you can find a thinner one to replace her with. That makes you a jerk, plain and simple. In fact, I would say it makes you much worse than that, but then, don’t feed the trolls and all that…
landygirl February 6, 2012, 12:17 pm
I’m willing to be cash money that this guy’s girlfriend is imaginary and he’s trolling us.
TaraMonster February 6, 2012, 1:12 pm
I’ve been thinking this the whole time. Obvious troll is obvious.
Zyggurat February 6, 2012, 10:22 am
I’m a woman living in the Caribbean and I can definitively say that men here and NOT more attracted to slender women. They like big asses, big boobs, big thighs. So yeah, speak for yourself, not for your whole gender or the whole world.
FireStar February 6, 2012, 11:02 am
Oh darling – you have to forgive him. We aren’t entirely sure he is aware of a world existing outside of his own head. Someone who thinks he can speak for all men has bigger problems than ethnocentricity.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 2:51 pm
But also to be fair, do they like big bellies?
When i hear slender, I’m thinking torso, below boobs and above tushy. (though usually picks back up at thighs). I don’t really think of boobs, or tush as part of “slender”.
Which is why I think that the generalization is generally right. Most american men are not attracted to a big belly (external to pregnancy). Butt, thighs, boobs and muscle tone differ, but i think it is fair to say belly is pretty consistent.
(Plus, look at Botticelli’s women’s abdomens. They weren’t bulging. But the hips were wider than now. I would still call a Botticelli’s body type “slender”.)
Poicelle February 6, 2012, 10:34 am
Well, women are more attracted to men who aren’t selfish and shallow. They also have standards.
There has been weight gain between both my fiance and myself over the course of our 3 year relationships (probably a good 60 lbs worth between us) and not ONCE has my attraction to him diminished or vice versa. Why? Because he’s a beautiful person. And, since I have to shoo him away from me every day, I’m pretty sure he feels the same way. I have always yo-yo-ed in weight. I have also always had men interested in me. I guess they’re not the “men” you mention because they’re interested in things other than whether or not I could slip through a crack in floorboards.
I think it says more about you than your girlfriend that you’re ready to cast her aside for weight gain.
Budj February 6, 2012, 10:42 am
While not explained as P.C. as possible by thisispredictable, his lack of attraction could be due to a perceived lack of motivation and the weight gain more than the weight gain by itself. If he is an ambitious guy and she is unambitioius / sedantary then his attraction would naturally wane from that as well.
MaterialsGirl February 6, 2012, 11:22 am
I would agree with this statement 100%. It’s one thing to have gained weight (hey it happens to the best of us), it’s another to have gained as a result of completely different set of values.
Poicelle February 6, 2012, 12:56 pm
I might agree with that – except that there is nothing in this guy’s comment to suggest that. It’s weight=”she’s on her way out”. If it’s an “i’m an active person and he/she is not” sort of thing, then I get it.
But life happens – things happen that are out of your control and sometimes you don’t have the time, energy or physical ability to work out or eat a certain way. And I don’t see how you can be in a relationship with someone, a REAL relationship, in which you care about the other person, and not accept those types of changes. Personality changes are different, but I think that if you love someone, most physical changes shouldn’t be enough to be the difference between being together and getting dumped.
JK February 6, 2012, 10:41 am
FWIW, I kind of agree with this. Definitely not the way it was stated (“it´s not hat you say, it´s how yo say it”).
Guys get turned on visually. Women tend to go more for other traits (ones . Itthat make the man seem like a good provider). This is science, not sexism.
I know this is not going to be popular, but I definitely believe that when you are in a relationship, you owe that other person to maintain (within reason) yourself the way you were when you first started dating. Of course we all get older (and I hate plastic surgery), but, if when you start dating someone you weigh 60 kg, dress nicely, wear makeup regularly, you can´t then let your weight go up 20 kg, dress like a slob and forget about makeup. At least not if you expect your SO to still be attracted to you. I mean, otherwise they would´ve looked for a person like the “new you” from the getgo.
Christy February 6, 2012, 10:47 am
Yes. This exactly. Every part of what you said.
JK February 6, 2012, 10:54 am
Except for the typos, right? I should really start reading what I write before posting.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:58 am
I can’t speak for Christy, but I was only agreeing with the typos. Everything else you said made no sense 😉
Christy February 6, 2012, 10:59 am
I really like imagining you sassing someone saying “It’s not whatchu say, it’s how yo’ say it!”
JK February 6, 2012, 11:04 am
Hahaha, with my accent I would sound completely ridiculous talking like that!!! 😀
Flake February 6, 2012, 10:57 am
I agree with you generally. However, people are not statues carved in stone. Life happens. Children, illnesses, stress… And unfortunately women are more susceptible to weight gain. I would hope that my SO is enough of a man to understand that, and if he ever stops finding me attractive if I ever gain weight, I hope he has enough balls to tell me.
JK February 6, 2012, 11:03 am
Definitely agree, thatps why I added the “within reason”. But how many times do you see people (usually women) get married and start gaining weight? Or have a baby, and still have the “baby weight” 2 years later?
I am lucky in that I lose weight very easily, and after 2 kids I still have the same body I did 10 years ago, without doing anything about it. But if I´d realized I was taking longer than I should have to lose the pregnancy weight I would´ve hit the gym, sarted eating less, whatever it took to be OK.
Flake February 6, 2012, 11:17 am
My issue with that is I think that those women are hardly doing it on purpose (although I am sure that there are a few that in the very least do nothing to prevent that).
To take my personal example, I had a baby, and lost weight pretty fast. By six months, I was actually skinnier than when I met my SO. But then I had to go back to work, and I regained 15 lb (I went from 120lb to 135), so that now I am 10 lb heavier than when we met. I do what I can, I go to gym, I cook healthy meals every day (my SO is actually losing weight eating the same meals that I am). But it has simply become more difficult for me to lose weight. My metabolism has definitely changed. And I guess I could spend two hours at the gym every day instead of one, but it would come at the expense of spending time with my family. So to us, it is simply not worth it.
So if my SO came to me and said something along the lines of the OP such as “she consciously refuses to understand that men are more physically attracted to slender women” I would not be impressed.
JK February 6, 2012, 11:22 am
But 10 lb (would be around 5 kg?) sounds like a reasonable amount of weight to gain. When I was at uni my weight would fluctuate 5 kg between summer and winter!
But say, 15 kg or more would even change the way you look,, and that´s what I take issue with.
And I know SO many women that don´t make the most minimal effort to do anything about their weight once thay´ve had a kid itps not funny (and from all over the world, so I don´t think it´s a cultural thing), as if having a baby lets you off taking care of yourself.
Flake February 6, 2012, 11:33 am
Well, it is “only” 10lb, but by the OP’s standards that would be too much. While at 120 lb I was “slender”, now I definitely am not.
As for other women, I think that is because they stop thinking about themselves as anything else except “mother”. And while that is not helpful for their husbands, it is completely understandable, at least the first few years.
Also, I just wish people would be more tolerant towards one another. Everyone has a different life and a different way they got there. And while for some men, like the OP, gaining weight is unacceptable, I know quite a few guys that would not even bat an eye at that. Not because they have lower or no “standards” but because they are genuinely too busy to consider something so superficial.
Michelle.Lea February 6, 2012, 10:59 am
No one can deny that physical attractiveness can impact a relationship, but facts are facts and bodies change as we get older. If you honestly cant grow with someone and accept their changes, then stop being weak and move on, for her sake. Stop projecting. Let her find someone that will love her for her, regardless of her size. Because you are obviously not that person. Stop being a selfish ass and let her go.
maybe i’m just an idealist, but i find people get more attractive as the years go on. body shape/size makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 11:15 am
No, as a professional success I think he is fully entitled to trade for a newer, younger model whenever his current wife/girlfriend starts showing her age. I mean, he has standards.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 11:07 am
I kind of agree with you. Lately there has been a big surge to “accept everyone the size they are”. Which is fine, but it doesn’t change the fact that curves are sexy, and when a girl is 200 lbs you can’t really see her curves – it’s more like a box shape. I *think* what your issue might be (although I don’t mean to speak for you – especially if i’m wrong) is that you are not attracted to a lack of motivation. LIke her weight has been creeping on – she has a gym membership she doesn’t use – you are successful and maybe she’s not – she might drink a lot (just speculation based on you saying that you don’t ruin your work out with booze). Which is fine, but I still hope you don’t say these things to her when you break up with her.
But you still do sound kinda douchy when you say that because you’re a professional you have standards. Alright you didn’t quite say that, but it seems like that’s what you’re implying. Lets hope you never go bald.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 12:40 pm
I’m a professional as well and if anything, I have a lot less time for sexy with slender women. So in that sense it’s maladaptive.
If I had it all to do over again, I’d have become a fireman. They don’t have to work that hard, and women LOVE them.
Budj February 6, 2012, 2:17 pm
And you would already have awesome props for home videos.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 4:27 pm
where do you think that strip joints got the idea to use a pole?
From firemen! — because women LOVE firemen.
Sarah February 6, 2012, 11:33 am
Trrooooooolll! Troll in the Dungeon!!!!!
TaraMonster February 6, 2012, 1:53 pm
…thought you oughta know!
HP FTW!
savannah February 6, 2012, 11:43 am
Beyond how lame this comment is I’m trying to also see how it is relevant to the issue at hand?
meg February 6, 2012, 1:20 pm
Oh, you know. Because the LW’s bf (like all other men) is more attracted to slender women, and therefore entitled to fap to skinny girls on facebook. But it’s clearly her fault because she is obviously overweight and the boyfriend, a professional success.
Or something…
Amber February 6, 2012, 11:55 am
You come off as a massive narcissist who posts with a serious tone of disgust for your girlfriend.
“on the way out”? do her a favour and cut her loose today. Unless she’s as big of a jerk as you come across as, in which case maybe you two deserve each other.
If you just aren’t enamoured with her anymore, fine. But to put the blame on 30 lbs of weight gain is ridiculous. I gained weight at the beginning of my relationship, about 20 lbs, and now I’ve lost about 15 of them and continue to go down. Thank god my boyfriend didn’t just have fairweather feelings for me.
The way you posted here about someone you are supposedly in a relationship with, and who likely cares for you, sickens me.
meaghan February 6, 2012, 12:09 pm
I took your post to be about women out there who gain weight during a relationship from bad habits then complain that the ‘spark is gone’ or no one wants them for ‘who they are’. For that point I agree saying that it’s their fault, and they should either change their habits or shut up.
As for women who are built curvier I think men find them just as attractive. My guess is your generalization was geared toward men being more attracted to women in shape rather than saying anyone not a size two is less attractive
Finally: being attractive is physical. I know plenty of men who are amazingly hot, yet are complete jerks. I also know men who are wonderful gentlemen, but are just ugly. Yes, there is a factor where your emotions makes someone seem more attractive, but that doesn’t affect everyone you see so I don’t see that as a relative point.
Lili February 6, 2012, 1:09 pm
This is predictable ; I appreciate you voicing an unpopular opinion and think that a lot of what you are saying is related to how today’s (media driven) society projects attractiveness in terms of weight. I was in a relationship with a man who valued fitness and I constantly felt inadequate because I didn’t have the flat stomach/totally fit body. I’m average sized with my stomach being my ‘trouble spot’ but after he and I broke up, I hit the gym and did the typical post breakup workout+makeover bit so now I’m much more happier with my weight and appearance in general. I think however that this fixation on weight being pretty is a dangerous one and even more so when its internalized but not addressed.
So this weekend I go out with my friends and met a guy who was a friend of a friend that I’d never met before. I liked him and we had a good flirty vibe going drinking/dancing and discussing how much we want the Giants to win Sunday. After like 4 shots, I’m feeling pretty drunk chatty and start talking to one of his friends in the bathroom about him, turns out she brought him there to be ‘set up’ with my friend. My drunk self then goes and confronts him and asks if he’s interested in me or her. When he dilly dallies, I go into full on drunken brat mode and drag my best friend away and start to whine, basically saying he should just like ME more and pick me because I’m skinnier and prettier than the girl he was set up with. For the record I’m VERY embarrassed I said this and that apparently I think this…I guess I just never knew how much I’d internalized my shallow ex’s views until that moment.
Muffy February 6, 2012, 4:28 pm
Just agreeing with your realization that sometimes it’s not all about who looks better when you’re attracted to someone
Lili February 6, 2012, 6:29 pm
Thanks Muffy! I’m realizing how my last relationship unhealthiness is still seeping through. UGH. I wanted that man out of my head MONTHS ago.
Pinky February 6, 2012, 4:02 pm
Dude, I found your dream girl. Send me an invitation to the wedding.
Muffy February 6, 2012, 4:27 pm
@ This is predictable:
I agree that gaining weight can cause a loss of attraction in a relationship and I agree that it is important for a woman to try to look attractive for her significant other. And I agree that there are quite a few men out there that prefer slender women to heavier women.
I think what a lot of commentors take issue with is the flippant way in which you describe your plans to dispose of your girlfriend. “until arrangement are made”. I chose the word “dispose” purposefully because that’s the word that came to mind when I read your posts.
Your initial post screams of arrogance (sp?) – as if you deserve someone better looking because you yourself work out and are “a professional sucess” (whatever the hell that is). You may not have SAID the words “I deserve someone hotter” but that’s what your post came off as.
Don’t reduce your girlfriend to an object to make a point. It could have been made by simply asking the LW if she had a similar situation of gaining weight as you had with your girlfriend and if her boyfriend had ever mentioned she was no longer attractve to him because of it.
That being said: any weight she may have gained (or maintained) is not the cause of his addiction (if that even exists). He could’ve spoken up sooner or left the relationship if her weight (IF it is an issue-not saying it is) was unattractive.
Muffy February 6, 2012, 4:35 pm
I don’t need help spelling arrogance – i initially had another word in there and forgot to take out the parantheses
Anna February 7, 2012, 6:29 am
No, it doesn’t exist in my relationship because my SO and I love each other for who we really are inside rather than what we look like on the outside.
Budj February 6, 2012, 9:30 am
Very disrespectful. I don’t know why be brought this up…but if you directly asked him this question then you kind of asked for the situation.
That aside…I’m skeptical of the whole porn addiction thing. Unless your sex life was seriously impacted or he was skipping out on life responsibilities to jack off I’m not sure he actually HAS a probelm…
I don’t mean to be accusatory…but I couldn’t help but infer from the tone of your letter that you just have an issue with porn, period.
Budj February 6, 2012, 9:32 am
Seeing other’s comments it makes sense that he might have viewed that as part of his 12 step…but I think even in those programs there are some things you should leave out, haha.
Fabelle February 6, 2012, 9:36 am
Replying to say I share in your skepticism. I wasn’t sure from the letter if he ACTUALLY had an addiction, or if the LW diagnosed him with him because she didn’t like him looking at porn.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 9:42 am
I wonder that as well. This letter reveals more about her issues than it does any evidence of ‘porn addiction’ by her BF.
AmitR February 6, 2012, 9:54 am
How is that? He is actually in some kind of “anon” program for it. We should accept that as evidence of his addiction.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 11:15 am
But her letter is actually about herself, and her own issues.
CollegeCat February 6, 2012, 12:06 pm
thats what this site is for. To get advice about YOUR issues you have to write in about Yourself. The letter is about her problem that correlates to he bf’s addiction. When did we stop giving LWs the benefit of the doubt?
Leroy February 6, 2012, 12:44 pm
I don’t doubt her – that is, I don’t think that she’s lying. She probably does assume that her BF is an addict and a pervert etc.. But when you read what she’s written here, it’s apparent that she’s conflating his porn use with her poor body image and anxieties surrounding her sexuality. So I think that it’s more likely that those are the issue here, not that her BF is actually a ‘porn addict’. Porn addicts typically aren’t going to restrict themselves to such tame forms of porn.
savannah February 6, 2012, 12:59 pm
You could be a vanilla porn addict though right?
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 1:04 pm
Whether or not he is really addicted to porn doesn’t have much bearing on her issue – he did something hurtful (ie telling her that he masturbated to a photo of her friend) and she wants to know what to do with that. Honestly, if he isn’t a porn addict then I have even less sympathy for him. While addiction doesn’t excuse bad behavior it does provide some idea of where the person’s mind was when shit went down. If there is no addiction, then the guy is at best selfish and at worst a malicious doucherocket.
moonflowers February 7, 2012, 12:29 am
It could be that hot Facebook pics aren’t technically “porn,” so he was cheating on his “porn diet” with them …
oldie February 6, 2012, 9:56 am
Well, he likes porn and jerks off to it, so I doubt he’d be in a 12-step program if he didn’t think he was addicted. Gf should just MOA. They are not at all well suited to each other.
Budj February 6, 2012, 10:04 am
Gf that is insecure about porn: “If you don’t get help for your porn addiction we are breaking up”
Way stranger things have happened.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 10:17 am
I think that if he actually has a full blown addiction to porn, that she’d have more to complain about than the fact that he likes women in bikinis and masturbated to a picture of her friend on FB a couple of times.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 11:08 am
Hard to say without a follow up, but I read it as, “I understand he has a porn addiction and I know he’s working on it, but this it what is really bugging me.”
MJ February 6, 2012, 9:50 am
Yeah, I had the same thought. Is he really a porn addict, or, for the LW, does Porn Addict = jerks off to porn? Because if it’s the latter, she’s got a rude awakening ahead.
Here’s the thing. Men like porn. If it bothers you, ask him to be discreet and keep it out of your browser history and off your computer. Then go about your life.
If he’s choosing porn over sex with you regularly, or if he can’t do anything during the day BUT look at porn, then it’s time to MOA.
CatsMeow February 6, 2012, 12:15 pm
YES. I’m skeptical of the porn addiction thing as well. Also, this: “I feel stupid for believing that modesty and class is valued by men like him” makes me feel like the LW just has issues with porn and masturbation in general. And that’s OK! She just needs to find a guy that shares those values.
I understand her being hurt by the fact that her BF fantasizes about a FRIEND of hers, but come on…. fantasies are healthy and normal. She needs to accept that. I’m sure all of her boyfriends fantasized about lots of people besides her; they just weren’t dumb enough to admit it to her.
CatsMeow February 6, 2012, 12:25 pm
To clarify: I’m skeptical about porn addiction and sex addiction in general. I believe it can happen, but I think it’s over-diagnosed.
CatsMeow February 6, 2012, 12:26 pm
And to clarify further, I think it’s over-diagnosed by people not particularly qualified to be diagnosing.
Fabelle February 6, 2012, 2:42 pm
Yeah, that’s the line that made me pause also. Thoughts like that aren’t generally verbalized by those who are cool with porn, comfortable with different expressions of sexuality, etc.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 3:14 pm
Yeah. I remember reading that to be considered a sex addict you need to have some crazily severe symptoms – many (many many) partners, picked almost indiscreimantently, distrupted work life, compulsions, distrupted relationships etc. (From what I read (of course symptoms differ), that sympton is referring to 5-10 or so partners a week.) If someone skipped a meeting to go have random sex in a motel with strangers from online — i’d buy it. But I wouldn’t from a person caught cheating with a coworker. If a man couldn’t get an erection without watching porn, I’d buy it. But I wouldn’t from someone found jerking off to facebook. That’s not even porn.
Fabelle February 6, 2012, 9:32 am
I’d be upset about this too, & but can see why he did it– if you have no access to porn, you start looking at things like the underwear section of a JC Penney catalog or whatever. He was probably on Facebook one day & noticed that this girl’s revealing pictures could be the poor-man’s jerk off material. Since he’s doing 12-steps for pornography addiction, his mindset was probably “Well..it’s not like it’s PORN..” But yeah, he still should have realized there’s a boundry issue with using one of your friend’s pictures as fantasy material.
If he’s working on his addiction, there are probably going to be more bumps in the road like this. You don’t need to stay with him while feeling cheated on & constantly wondering “Did he masturbate today? What did he do it to?” That’s not healthy for him or for you.
MsBorgia February 6, 2012, 9:50 am
I was going to comment that he probably didn’t even see the pictures and think “I’m going to jack off to LW’s friend!”, he was probably like “yay half naked girl” and didn’t even attach a name to her. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think most guys masturbate to modestly-clothed women… He still shouldn’t have told the LW about it but I don’t think it’s an inherently dumpable offense.
Budj February 6, 2012, 10:00 am
There are fetishs based on certain fabrics, haha….but yea…clothed woman << scarcely clothed woman.
Lindsay February 6, 2012, 9:57 am
I agree. If porn is off-limits, then he was probably looking for anything else that contained a female to look at. As the others have said, if this is too much for you, then maybe breaking up would be best. It’s going to be a long time before he’s got all this worked out, it seems, so there might be a long, unpleasant road ahead.
The other thing is that there’s no reason to attach opinions of yourself to this. While obnoxious, him looking at this other girl is the same as looking at porn. Just because he looks at a certain type of porn doesn’t mean that’s what his “type” is. He obviously chose you, and that’s all that matters. You probably have actors you find attractive, but that doesn’t mean that you think your boyfriend is ugly because he doesn’t look like them.
Leah February 6, 2012, 9:40 am
I’m guessing he made this revelation as part of his 12-steps. Step 5 is “Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others”, and it’s possible that he miscalculated how much this particular admission would hurt you. The truth is, a lot of guys think about women they know in a sexual way, including their girlfriend’s attractive friends. The difference is, through the process of working through his addiction your boyfriend made the miscalculation of TELLING you about it, whereas most guys would keep their traps shut in order to avoid this kind of fallout.
I’m not your boyfriend and I can’t tell you what’s going through his head, but I will say that as a woman who regularly looks at porn I watch way more extreme things than I would ever be interested in doing. All porn is is a shortcut to an orgasm, and sometimes it takes bigger or more extreme stimuli to get turned on quickly enough for it to be worth it. Instead of going outside and enjoying a beautiful afternoon in the park, porn is like staying home and smoking crack. You get the same results in five minutes that would usually take much longer to achieve naturally. Your boyfriend’s addiction to porn means that he was probably searching out new stimuli constantly as he got used to the old stuff. Maybe he just thought your friend was attractive, or maybe the idea of jerking off to someone he knows, someone who he absolutely SHOULDN’T have been jerking off to, was part of the turn-on.
The bottom line is, he didn’t cheat on you. He did something stupid in the pursuit of pleasure, a pursuit that he readily admits was completely out of control. His real mistake was telling you about it and leaving you to handle the emotional fallout on your own. I’m with Regina when she says that you’re not obligated to forgive him for how he’s made you feel. But if you do want to try to forgive him, it’s going to take a lot of work on your own to rebuild your self-esteem, and a lot of work on his part to make you feel like you’re the most important person in his life. For starters, you might want to tell him to think a little more before being so specific about what he’s apologizing for.
lk February 6, 2012, 12:01 pm
“Instead of going outside and enjoying a beautiful afternoon in the park, porn is like staying home and smoking crack.”
LOL
ahlia February 6, 2012, 9:54 am
yeah, listen: this incident alone would be enough for me to break up with my boyfriend. Why the hell would he tell you that if not to hurt you!? Any normal sane person would KNOW that’s crossing a line. If he can’t understand that, he is stupid. If he does understand, he’s an asshole. Lose-lose.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:06 am
I’m going to live up to my username and just let it all out.
Give me a f’in break! ‘Wah, I am addicted to jerking off.’ Please. Its called self control. He’s choosing to do this, and then pretending its some sort of addiction. Dump the pervert.
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:13 am
So, you don’t think there are ANY addictions?
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:22 am
Huh? I don’t think what this BF has is a porn addiction, no.
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:42 am
Just that you could say the same thing about anything that is considered an addiction.
“Wah, I am addicted to smoking crack.” Please. Its called self control.
“Wah, I am addicted to gambling.” Please. Its called self control.
“Wah, I am addicted to working out.” Please. Its called self control.
“Wah, I am addicted to alcohol.” Please. Its called self control.
“Wah, I am addicted to porn.” Please. Its called self control.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:56 am
You COULD say that, but that’s not WHAT I said. I said I don’t buy this particular guy’s BS.
Something More February 6, 2012, 12:10 pm
You didn’t say that, tho. WHAT you said was “Give me a f’in break! ‘Wah, I am addicted to jerking off.’ Please. Its called self control. He’s choosing to do this, and then pretending its some sort of addiction. Dump the pervert.”
I didn’t read that to mean only this specific guy. I thought that was pretty general to addictions. And I guess I’m not the only one who read it that way. Obviously if you typed that out with just this guy in mind, then that’s how you meant it. But the words on the screen imply otherwise.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 12:32 pm
Did you catch the part where I said “HE’S” ???
By HE, I didn’t mean every person. I thought that was as clear as one could get when speaking about one person.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 1:52 pm
Maybe they thought by “He’s” you meant every HE in existence, and frankly that’s sexist and I won’t stand for it.
Guy Friday February 6, 2012, 11:21 am
I’m not sure why you’re going “Huh?” Your initial argument and logic can be pretty easily theoretically used to apply to ANY addiction. Replace “jerking off” with, say, “alcohol” and read your comment again. And some might even argue that you could use the same argument with “food”, meaning that, by your logic, you should be openly supporting the guy who commented above about dumping his 30-pounds-overweight girlfriend because she obviously is just pretending she can’t help her being overweight and is just lazy and unmotivated. Whether you personally believe someone can be addicted to pornography, you need to at least acknowledge that a fair number of scientific studies have shown that there is such a thing as a “porn addiction.” Personally, I believe that someone can be addicted to pornography, and I also think that someone can recognize themselves slipping down that slope and preemptively get help, much as someone can recognize they’re starting to lose control over their addiction for alcohol and get help. Whether the LW believes it or not is a whole other story.
LW, feel free to disagree, but in my opinion the context of WHEN it happened is of major importance here. Put another way: was he confessing to doing this BEFORE he started getting help or AFTER? If it’s after, then, yeah, it’s kind of a crappy thing to do. But if it’s before, and you’re saying you believe in the value of the 12-step program he’s in and are willing to support him through it, then I think you need to divide his actions into “Pre-treatment” and “post-treatment” (with “treatment” being when he started getting help). I’m not saying you MUST stay with him; I’m just saying that if you’re saying “I believe he has an addiction to masturbation, and I’m going to stay with him while he gets help”, then you can’t pick and choose which things to forgive him for and which not to. In this case, I feel like it has to be all or nothing, at least for anything he did pre-treatment.
(Also, a random aside, but to everyone who’s saying, “Maybe it’s part of the program, but even if it is, he shouldn’t have told her”: That’s not how 12-step programs work. They preach total and unbridled honesty, which requires asking forgiveness for both the things the people you harmed know about AND the things you don’t. The whole point is to not censor your apologies in that way. Of course, if it’s NOT part of the program, all bets are off.)
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 11:35 am
I don’t get your argument or SomethingMores, to be honest with you. Of course if you change the words that I am saying, it could be me saying something else. But I’m only saying the words I chose. My reply to SM was – “You COULD say that, but that’s not WHAT I said. I said I don’t buy this particular guy’s BS.”
Guy Friday February 6, 2012, 11:55 am
Yeah, but that’s not ACTUALLY what you said until our arguments were pointed out to you. What you said is that you think he’s a pervert whose “addiction” is simply a lack of self-control. If your argument was “I don’t believe that porn addiction is real, THEREFORE I believe he’s a pervert with a lack of self-control”, so be it; we can agree to disagree. But you acted surprised when we made logical inferences based on your statement, and it surprises me that you’re surprised is all.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 12:01 pm
Well all I have to say to that is I’m surprised you are surprised by me being surprised! So there!
I think you are just nitpicking my wording, but I think I was clear in what I said. Feel free to think otherwise, add words, delete and completely alter what my statement was.
Something More February 6, 2012, 12:15 pm
Like in my reply above, you THINK you were clear because you had your brain thinking your opinion with you as you typed. The actual words you typed are all we get to see. And it seemed you were talking about addictions in general.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 12:29 pm
This is getting annoying ot be honest with you. Did I say “Generally, speaking to ALL and every supposed addiction ever known to man, I think its all BS?” No. I was replying to a letter about alleged porn addiction. Why would you assume that I would be talking about anything other than this letter? I think the boyfriend in THIS LETTER is full of it. I also think the whole concept of porn addition is pretty bs, but I can’t comment on them all, just this specific letter.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 12:02 pm
“It surprises me that you’re surprised”. That made me lol for some reason. Must be a slow Monday. Anyway i’ll go out and say what everyone is tip-toeing around. I don’t think porn addiction is real. There I said it. It is a convenient excuse for men to try to save relationships where they have fucked up. Like looked at too much porn. Or cheated. Or is some other way disrepsected their significant other.
Now, I know what you’re going to say. Baaah there’s studies out there that prove it. Listen, I also don’t believe in food addictions. That might make you feel better or worse about me. But I just think people never want to be held accountable for their behavior, so if there is a way out, they want to find it. You ate yourself to 400 pounds. You whacked yourself right out of that relationship. These are choices.
Guy Friday February 6, 2012, 12:22 pm
And I get that not everyone feels it’s real, and I respect that. I’m being sincere when I say that I’m not sure I see much of a difference between an addiction to pornography and one to alcohol or drugs. Personally, I think it’s a real addiction. I think it affects both genders. The studies have convinced me. I think we’re a ways away from it being acceptable to consider in a mainstream sense in the same way that people used to disbelieve that someone could be addicted to cigarettes. And, frankly, I don’t think any man or woman would CHOOSE to spend the kind of time and effort on pornography that the people I consider to be legitimately “addicted” do. I mean, no question about it that it’s a VERY high bar to pass, and I agree that some of the people who claim it are full of crap. But if you look at some of these studies and the cases they’re talking about, the benders and the increasingly deviant behavior and the actions they take just to get one more orgasm, one more high . . . it reminds me of the crack addicts I deal with in my job.
Granted, in my responses to the LW I’m making an assumption, and that’s that she genuinely believes that porn addiction exists. If we don’t start with that assumption, then why would the letter even get written? And IF you believe it’s possible to be addicted to pornography, AND you believe that the LW believes that as well, then you get to the advice I was suggesting. If you don’t believe in porn addiction, it’s all pretty much a moot point.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 1:08 pm
Yeah I get that, but I just think that addictions almost turn into a fad sometimes. For me, it is hard to believe that anything you can’t be “physically” addicted to is an addiction. If the argument is that you are “mentally” addicted to it, I just don’t buy it. If it is a mental addiction it really is just a lack of willpower. You can be physically addicted to cigarettes. You can be physically addicted to alcohol, heroin, meth, etc. Even weed addiction I think is a joke. You’re not addicted to it, you just like to get high.
I mean porn addiction? Really? Block the sites from your laptop. Cancel your internet. Throw away your dvd’s. I promise he won’t go through withdrawl. He just likes to whack off to porn. The issue here is the LW thinks that’s trashy, so he is acting like he can’t stop himself to try to save the relationship. I don’t know it all just seems to ridiculous to me.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 1:30 pm
perfection.
Grilledcheesecalliope February 6, 2012, 1:53 pm
Food would count as a physical addiction
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 1:59 pm
No, it wouldn’t. There are no chemicals in food that make it addicting. That is proven by the fact that most people can eat totally normal amounts of food. People are addicted to food (or claim to be) in the sense that they use it to fill some emotional void. Hence mental addiction. If food was addicting every person who has ever eaten would be out of control and eat themselves to 400 pounds.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 2:06 pm
What about that sleepy stuff in turkey. Tryptophan?
I think that’s in all foods. Every time I eat I need a nap.
God damn, I just realized, Im not only addicted to being late, but also to napping.
savannah February 6, 2012, 3:11 pm
Iwannatalktosampson- So when talking about the differences between physical and ‘mental’ addiction, it’s important to understand that most ‘mental’ addictions are not just simply in peoples heads but really in their brains, an organ that operates basically by receiving and sending out lots of chemicals. There is a limited number of chemicals that our body makes and the sensors that release the pleasure or addiction ones ones don’t often make the same distinction that you are, that is to say people who do heroin and those who eat a lot of fast food might be having the same brian chemical make up. i.e. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2707143.stm
I think its more or less about what type of addiction, but rather comes down to if you belief in addiction at all or not.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 4:20 pm
Not sure why you say food can’t be an addiction. Sugar trips the same dopamine receptors as does cocaine. You can physically be addicted to sugar. (This is not knew — I learned this in principles of the nervous system 7 years ago; they’ve done repeated, peer-reviewed studies on this).
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 4:30 pm
I don’t believe in sugar addiction because I eat sugar all the time and am not addicted to it. I’m actually drinking a full sugar pop right now (wait – while we’re on the subject, why am I drinking full sugar pop? It’s like I actually enjoy my love handles 2012 has given me) and i’m not addicted. If I had the WILLPOWER I would not buy pop. If you are “addicted” to sugar, and stop consuming it – you will not go into convulsions. I’m sorry I don’t care what the studies say, i’m not buying it. Everyone wants an excuse out of everything. Maybe I am addicted to being a bitch. It also releases feel good chemicals in my brain. I mean come on what other bad behaviors are people going to wave the white flag for and say they have no control over. It is getting out of control.
savannah February 6, 2012, 7:28 pm
“I don’t believe in sugar addiction because I eat sugar all the time and am not addicted to it.” aka I don’t believe in alcohol addiction because I drink alcohol all the time and am not addicted to it.?? Yes, because everything is true only if it happens to you? I guess that might be the way you think since you also don’t believe in science.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 8:21 pm
I believe in science. I don’t believe in fake addictions. Every fat person is a “sugar addict” – every cheater is a “sex addict”. I mean where does it stop? Where is the personal responsibility. And you’re missing the clear distinction here. If you are an alcoholic and quit drinking you get the shakes – hence the need to be under the supervision of a doctor during detox. What do people to do when they kick a sugar addiction? Lose weight and “crash” therefore needing a nap? I mean come on, that’s ridiculous. It’s like an episode of spongebob.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 8:27 pm
See I’m with you that a lot of people do not have “Addictions” they say they do, that they blame things on. However, that doesn’t mean that the thing itself doesn’t exist. I can call myself a ballerina because i took lessons when I was 5, and i’d be wrong. But that doesn’t mean that real ballerina’s don’t exist or that ballet isn’t real.
Also, I’m not fat. I try to keep my sugar issues in check by eating less overall and working out. I’m hefty but not obese. And I didn’t say I took naps; I said I couldn’t sleep because I needed a fix. Which I would get and then be able to sleep.
I understand your opposition to labels like this, but I’m not sure why you take that to mean it is never legitimate.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 8:36 pm
Oh sorry I didn’t mean to imply that I think you’re fat. I was just saying that suggesting that a sugar addiction exists gives people just one more excuse out of taking responsibility for their own actions. I have a friend that I have known since high school that can literally eat fast food (not subway – i’m talking mcdonalds) for her three meals a day – and she weighs 105 pounds. Not kidding. I kind of hate her.
I’m confused about the ballerina analogy so i’m just going to skip that part.
But can you honestly say that you don’t have a choice to eat sugar? Like you have to have it?
Listen if the DW community has spoken and this counts as a legitimate addiction, then fine. I am addicted to the following things: friend chicken, cheese, cucumbers, and ranch.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 6:23 pm
I did try to quit sugar and I had real withdrawal symptoms. (In addition to extreme irratability, which I agree could be BS, I had massive headaches, extreme cravings (not just hmm, I like candy, all consuming, can’t focus, can’t sit still, trouble sleeping, etc.) The reason why I think I’m actually “dependent”/addicted to sugar more than normal people is that I had extreme stomach issues for many years and found the only thing I could eat without upsetting my stomach was bagels, plain pasta and sugar candy. (aka all basically glucose). Now that my stomach is no longer as sensitive (no idea why), I find I cannot seem to shake that diet, even though I very very seriously want to. I have tried several times to quit. I try not buying it and I wind up out in the middle of the night to the allnight drugstore because I can’t sleep, my cravings are that bad or doing disgusting things like eating agave syrup on rice. Which I don’t enjoy. Because its gross. But I get a release and all those bad feelings stop once I’ve eaten it. And the drug store is not close. and I have to walk to it. So its not something I really prefer to do by myself at 2:30 am on workdays but I find myself doing it anyway, if only so I can sleep.
I’m not saying everyone who has a sweet tooth is addicted. I’m not saying that willpower doesn’t play in. I’m just saying that it can be a true chemical addiction. There’s no reason to doubt the science of it any more than the science of heroin or meth dependence. Which I think you’d agree are real addictions.
For the record, again, I think you need to have a physical problem relating to porn (cannot get it up, cannot have an orgasm) for it to be addiction. which I would think are about 5 people, total. And not LW’s boyfriend. But I do think its real.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 8:27 pm
Do you think you physically HAD to go to the drugstore? Or could you have just found another outlet and gone back to sleep? Because I eat sugar all the time lately because i’m stressed out. But everytime I get up and eat ice cream I am choosing to do it.
I mean, that’s fine, if you think it’s a real addiction, then fine. But I just don’t.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 8:40 pm
But it isn’t getting up and eating ice cream out of the freezer. It is getting up in the middle of the night having stared at the ceiling for hours, then showered with relaxing candles, then stared at the ceiling, done sit ups, then stared at the ceiling, then watched tv, then stared at the ceiling, then, put on your coat and shoes, walked 5 flights of stairs, and 4 blocks in the cold to buy a bag of skittles at 3:30 am. And it is going home, having a handful and feeling this release and being able to fall asleep.
I’m not trying to make excuses for myself. I need to figure out some sort of true detox program where I can get past the cravings, like smokers.Smokers quit, and so can I. But smokers are also addicted, and so am I. Some people can have a drink every night and not be alcoholics. Some people can smoke cigarettes on the weekends, but not be a smoker. Why is it so impossible to believe that some people can eat sugar and have no negative affects and other people cannot? I don’t need you to believe me. But sugar really acts like a drug. I am curious why you are so hesitant to believe that.
SpaceySteph February 7, 2012, 6:18 am
I don’t see it as being an excuse to say you’re addicted to certain kinds of food. And I think there’s evidence of an addiction in what you said:
“If I had the WILLPOWER I would not buy pop.”
I agree that you can’t get severely sick or die from quitting sugar cold turkey like you could heroin. But you can get irritable, and you can get cravings, like you could from, say, quitting smoking. And besides, this lack of willpower in the face of soda is basically the same thing as a compulsion. That doesn’t mean you can’t stop. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. But recognizing that it isn’t easy because there is a real chemical reaction taking place that you subconsciously desire seek out is a good thing; it will give you a better understanding of how to fight back. And give you reason, once you do quit, not to go back.
6napkinburger February 6, 2012, 4:16 pm
I buy insofar as men who cannot get erections without porn. (Except nightime ones, i guess.) Or those who cannot climax without porn. That’s pretty much it.
FireStar February 6, 2012, 11:40 am
I disagree – I think you can pick and chose what to forgive. Just because he is in a 12 step program that does not negate HER ability to make personal choices for herself. Being in recovery does not absolve him from the consequences of his actions. I may support your goal of getting better but if that process is to MY detriment then I am fully within my rights to wish you well in your recovery as I tell you peace out.
Guy Friday February 6, 2012, 12:08 pm
Oh, I agree with you 100%. I wasn’t trying to say she HAS to stick around no matter when it happened. All I was saying is that if she’s saying, “I believe in this treatment and I accept that to do this I need to forgive him for all the pornography he was looking at before” then she would need to include this IF IT HAPPENED BEFORE TREATMENT (and I can’t stress that part enough). Pornography is literally defined as “material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement”, so I think that — though I’m NOT saying by any means that the LW’s friend was planning on causing this guy to masturbate to her picture — it would be reasonable to lump the photos in as a form of pornography for this guy.
If she doesn’t want to forgive him for all this, I’m not saying she has to. She has every right to say “Yeah, good luck with this. I’m out.” and it’s his own fault for causing that. I do think, however, that if she wants to stay, she needs to view everything he used as spank bank material prior to starting treatment — be it intended for that use or misappropriated for it — as one lump thing she has to forgive. And I’m also saying that I’m fairly certain he’s telling her this as a part of his 12-step program, and I don’t think it’s fair to say that he has to commit to his program except for occasions where he’s going to make the LW uncomfortable. The point of the programs is to right every one of the wrongs done by the participant to make the participant fully aware of just how deeply he/she has screwed him/herself with his/her actions, and they do that by seeking forgiveness for all things they admitted to previously or had never said before. Just because she didn’t know about it doesn’t make it any less wrong or worthy of remorse, right?
ReginaRey February 6, 2012, 10:40 am
I’m inclined to agree with you on this one. I believe that there can be legitimate addictions to sex and porn. But unfortunately, I think those legitimate addictions are somewhat sullied by people who claim to have an “addiction” as a convenient excuse to do whatever they want. I can’t tell for sure whether this guy is legitimate or not, but regardless…I don’t think she should stick around in a relationship that’s obviously making her feel worse about herself.
Something More February 6, 2012, 10:44 am
As to whether or not he has an actual addiction, I don’t know. But, people usually don’t join a 12-step program so they “claim to have an “addiction” as a convenient excuse to do whatever they want.”
Budj February 6, 2012, 10:46 am
I think they are implying that the him attending the program may have been initiated as a way to keep the relationship going…whether it was instigated by her or him we don’t know.
Leroy February 6, 2012, 10:49 am
like the sudden explosion in sex addiction among cheating husbands. Strangely they only realize that they are sex addicts when someone catches them.
Budj February 6, 2012, 10:55 am
Agent Mulder…why have you foresaken me?!
rachel February 6, 2012, 4:05 pm
I was sad to find out about David Duchovny’s sex addiction, but I’ve since decided that it must really mean that Tea Leoni is not enough woman for him, but clearly I would be. I am willing to help him with his problem by having frequent sex with him.
rainbow February 6, 2012, 4:10 pm
Yeah, me too. Give me a call so we can work out a schedule.
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 4:23 pm
If only they had called his show Califidelity I don’t think this would have happened.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 10:57 am
Yes, exactly.
Something More February 6, 2012, 11:01 am
Also, taking up a new religion? He’s hard core about keeping this relationship going if it’s not really an addiction.
FireStar February 6, 2012, 11:22 am
I generally don’t understand behavioural addictions. I understand that you can be genuinely addicted to certain things but when does choice become addiction? When it is inconvenient? When you get caught? Sometime before? I don’t know the answer. I have never been addicted to anything but I do know compulsion is not instant. There is always a fork in the road where you choose a certain behaviour – before you are compelled into it. I’m tired of “addiction” being the panacea for accountability and so I find my compassion is lessened dealing with those types of issues. Bu that is just me…
LW now might be the time to exercise your own choice of whether you want to stay with this type of person. Should his need for unnecessary “honesty” outweigh your feelings? When someone puts themselves first – where exactly does that leave you? You aren’t married with kids. There are plenty of men out in the world that you won’t have to think twice about trusting.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 11:37 am
Your first few sentences got me thinking–I think I’m addicted to getting to work late. Do you think my boss’ will be cool with this?
FireStar February 6, 2012, 11:44 am
Worth a shot – but make sure you call it chronic lateness… that practically sounds like a medical condition.
sparky629 February 6, 2012, 12:52 pm
I guess I have to disagree with you on the ‘it’s porn’. Maybe just maybe the boyfriend has an addictive personality and it just manifests itself in watching porn. I’m not saying she should be OK with him being an ass (because that was inexcusable) just that addictions are very very real for some people.
I once had a friend who was addicted to weed (said friend even tried to check in drug rehab but it was laughed off by the staff as ‘it’s only weed’). But seriously, the addiction that manifested itself as smoking weed was really a cover up for some deeper issues that said friend did NOT want to face because it was way too painful.
So yes to us it’s easy to laugh off his ‘porn addiction’ as BS but to him it may be something he battles every single day to get under control.
SweetPea February 6, 2012, 10:07 am
Some people have thick skins and could handle this kind of confession. I’m not one of them. LW, I don’t know you… but you don’t sound like one of them either. This sounds like it is eating you up inside. I am not sure if you’ll ever get over it. Even if he makes a lot of headway in changing his ways… can you forget the past? If you don’t think you can ever really forgive him… if you think this will always be on your mind… you need to end things. A relationship can’t continue in a healthy way when one party is forever harboring feelings of anger, sadness, and/or mistrust about the other party. And there is nothing wrong with you for deciding you can’t conquer those emotions.
Besides the fact that you are probably a lovely woman and don’t need to sit around comparing yourself to “skinny facebook girls”. You need someone that will remind you of just how wonderful you are.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 11:01 am
What happened to the good old days when guys could just be perverts? Now we have to put all these labels on it – like he’s a porn addict – he’s in recovery. Blech. He’s just a pervert. Everytime you take him anywhere you’re going to be wondering if he’s going to use the image of the hottie at the table next to you to whack off too later.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 11:07 am
I’d take that picture down if I were you. You’re lookin awfully pretty. Wait. Stop. I can’t control myself. BRB!
Budj February 6, 2012, 11:14 am
you don’t need to brb to take care of business on the interwebz.
Christy February 6, 2012, 11:15 am
Bahahaha
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 11:28 am
When I’m sitting at my desk in the office, I do. I try to be polite to my coworkers while masterbating. What can I say? I’m a saint.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 11:14 am
LBH I am warning you if you whack off to me I am going to whack off to you back. I know where to find your picture – it’s somewhere in the reader of the week file. I’ll do it.
Budj February 6, 2012, 11:22 am
I LOL’d at that…”don’t make me masterbate to you!” Put in quotes so you don’t think I was actually trying to threaten you with that…haha.
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 11:28 am
This is awesome.
TaraMonster February 6, 2012, 2:14 pm
You guys are cracking me up. I am literally getting no work done reading this thread. Bu that could also be due to my Superbowl Victory Hangover. Haha
Budj February 6, 2012, 3:51 pm
Did you like how Eli now has one more ring than his bro…yet they STILL wanted to talk to him about Peyton when giving him the MVP award?
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 4:03 pm
I know! Incredible. I hate how over shadowed he is by peyton. I’ve been team Eli all along. He’s got this baby face I just want to lick! Well, after a nice post game shower of course. Anyone see the video of Gisele talking shit about the wide receivers. That woman gives me another reason to think she’s a snob every week.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 4:06 pm
Ugh and then there’s Eli’s wife Abby – who is the total opposite of Gisele. She is classy and humble and supportive in the good way – not the whiny ‘my husband is the best. player. ever. and everyone should worship him’ kinda way.
Budj February 6, 2012, 4:09 pm
I agree with you. But in her defense. Branch, Welker, and Hernandes (twice) all dropped passes that would have changed the game….but on the same argument….the refs had no-calls on 3 Giants drives that would have at least gotten them field goals.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 4:16 pm
Yeah, I just feel like that’s the way games go though you know? Like a good quarterback wouldn’t have left the game to be decided that way. Like what was he doing the whole first half besides sucking? Maybe if he had played better the first half their team wouldn’t have had to rely on those catches you know what I mean? I just think she is so embarrassing.
Budj February 6, 2012, 4:20 pm
Yea you are right. Lots of factors play into the W so it’s tough to dissect it all. Fact of the matter is he had 2 good drives the whole game…so that is a pretty good statistic to reference in the loss…even when his offensive line was giving him all the time in the world.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 4:25 pm
Ugh I would KILL for his offensive line! As a broncos fan that was destroyed by his offensive line (twice this year) I feel like that vetos (vetoes?) her right to complain about anything, ever.
I am just waiting until the press asks the receivers about her comment. I want them to say something super snarky like, “well when anyone that matters in the situation has that comment to make, we will address it internally”.
Lili February 6, 2012, 4:29 pm
BTW did you hear about the email she sent to her friends and family to ‘pray for tommy’ BWAHAHAHA. I’m sorry but making him appear as a weak person who ‘really needs this win’ was so obnoxious to me.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 4:36 pm
See that didn’t bother me that much. I was kinda like aw, okay I can get behind that. She’s supporting him in a nice way. I mean I would never send that type of e-mail, but overall I wasn’t making fun of her for it. This is a big moment in his life. But then to blame the loss on other teammates?? Guys he has to look in the eyes? It’s like she is literally grabbing his balls and keeping them in her purse, it’s so degrading.
Mwalt February 6, 2012, 11:03 am
Sweetie, MOA for goodness sakes. This guy has wayyyyyy too much on his plate to be a decent boyfriend, and you need some time on your own to grow some self-esteem. Look, wether or not a guy sees and fantasizes about other woman is HIS problem, not yours. You are lovely, and your values and personality will reflect that. This is not a question of you not being thin enough – it’s a question of him being “well” enough, or even, just a question of his character as a man. Again, this is NOT about you. It’s about him. So break up with him and let him go figure himself out. And then, spend some time telling yourself how amazing you are until you believe it. I promise you, once you treat yourself the way you want to be treated, the right guy will come along. Good luck!
Michelle.Lea February 6, 2012, 11:06 am
Let’s clear something out of the way first. Just because a guy gets off looking at porn or some other girl that is ‘skinnier’ than you, or someone you perceive as more attractive does NOT mean he doesn’t find you attractive, in fact more attractive than the other girls.
To me, the fact that he makes you feel bad about yourself, regardless of the porn issue, is what makes this a move on situation. I know sometimes you’re with someone for a long time, and you cant quite put your finger on it, but something’s not quite right. Then one day you realize it’s not you. You’re just fine, but someone else is making you feel crappy about yourself, whether they mean to or not. When that day hits, get mad and pull from it to get out of the situation.
Christy February 6, 2012, 11:13 am
Yo everyone: I’m getting curious about people’s general thoughts on masturbation, so I posted a forum topic on it under “General Chat.” Please join me in my quest to the internet everything about my personal life!
Tracey February 6, 2012, 11:23 am
I think this letter comes down to one main issue – if this man’s behavior towards and treatment of you makes you feel so down about yourself that you end up feeling hurt, stupid, and fat (even when you know you aren’t), then you have to walk away and get yourself some healing. If he’s going through a 12-step program himself, then he needs to be focusing most (if not all) of his emotional energy on his recovery and healing.
You two can love each other without being in a relationship with each other. This is important to remember especially given the fact that so much trust has been eroded and so much hurt has taken place. Maybe you can work back towards each other after you’ve both taken some time to get yourselves healthy, but for now, it’s time to move on.
Also, understand that he will always be recovering from, never completely cured of, his addiction. It has little, if anything to do with an emotional attraction to your friend, or a lack of love for you. Please don’t hold his actions against your friend, or try to make yourself more overtly sexualized in an attempt to win him over. Neither of these things will help you or him.
Something More February 6, 2012, 11:38 am
Okay. First, he didn’t cheat on you. He whacked off to a girl you know. It was probably more out of convenience than straight out attraction. If he is in a program, he has probably had to get rid of a lot of his “personal collection” so again, probably convenience.
Second, the news that he confessed was a dick move. He shouldn’t have said it. And if it’s something that is going to bother you forever, than let him go. If, whenever one of your friends posts a picture of herself in skimpy clothes out at the club, you are worried what he might so with it, move on. You don’t have to stay in a relationship that makes you uncomfortable and you don’t have to have some epic reason to break it off.
Based on your letter, It doesn’t seem to me like you’ve had a lot of self-esteem issues proir to this. I mean, what woman at some point or another hasn’t felt the “need to lose some weight?” I have. For like… years. I think that you are more disappointed that it doesn’t seem like he has the same values of modesty on such a public forum as you thought he did. And, again difference of values in anything is a sign of incompatibility.
Honeslty, it sounds like you need to let this relationship go.
Sarah February 6, 2012, 11:44 am
Is it weird that I’m more bothered that he told her that he jerked it to her facebook friend in detail than that he actually did it? I mean, I’m not saying it wasn’t a crappy thing to do, I’m just completely put off by a dude who would go into such detail describing who and how many times he did said crappy thing.
“Honey, I had an affair, please forgive me.”
“Honey I had an affair. I took my secretary into our backyard and #%#*&$ her ^#^&#& on the trampoline. You know, the hot one you met at the Christmas party? That one. Three times. All on the trampoline. Please forgive me.”
Its like, couldn’t he admit to something like that without telling the LW who so she wouldn’t feel like she has a specific person to judge herself against or how many times so she wouldn’t have to picture it happening over and over? I think she should reconsider the relationship, not because he’s addicted to porn, but because he’s fine with her having to take all the emotional splashback (no pun intended) because of it.
Iwannatalktosampson February 6, 2012, 11:52 am
Maybe he gets turned on by talking about his masterbation?
lets_be_honest February 6, 2012, 11:59 am
Jeez, between FY’s photo and this trampoline sex talk, I’m getting all hot and bothered this morning. Amiright?
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 12:06 pm
I’ll be in my bunk.
seven7three February 6, 2012, 3:27 pm
I love you! Not in a creepy stalker way, but I’m sitting here, wearing my very cunning replica of Jayne’s hat and I just love you!
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 4:26 pm
Ah! I have a Jayne hat too! (Also, I… I have this thing for Adam Baldwin.)
iseeshiny February 6, 2012, 4:27 pm
That thing is in my pants. If I wasn’t clear.
Something More February 6, 2012, 12:22 pm
BF: I masterbated to So-and-so’s pis on Facbook.
LW: OK. Did it only happen once?
BF: No. It was two or three times.
Thaaaat’s about all the detail she goes into, so it could’ve been as basic as that.
Sarah February 6, 2012, 12:38 pm
Yeah but, what did it help anybody that she knew who and how many times he spanked it to her? Its like, he would have to be ridiculously stupid to not know telling her who it was is just going to give her a complex. Just because someone’s a porn addict doesn’t give them the right to ignore when giving the specifics is going to hurt someone more. That was my point.
rainbow February 6, 2012, 2:00 pm
This.
I have masturbated thinking of my boyfriend’s friends from time to time (mainly just before we broke up) but I would have NEVER EVER told him that. Because I’m not cruel, or completely stupid.
And I don’t know which one’s the deal with this dude, but in any case I think LW should let him go.
painted_lady February 6, 2012, 1:16 pm
Late to the game, but several thoughts occur: I’m always leery of the term “porn addiction.” WTF does that even mean? It could mean “watches porn a lot and doesn’t feel properly ashamed which makes girlfriend uncomfortable,” or “girlfriend wants complete and total control over his junk as well as erotic imagination and boyfriend refuses to budge” or “boyfriend stays home from work regularly to honk his horn while watching videos all day and has paid for so many he cannot pay rent and all the computers have viruses” or “boyfriend has not had sex with girlfriend in six months, and she regularly stumbles across him yanking it at 4 am when she goes to use the bathroom in the middle of the night, and rather than owning up to making her feel like shit, he screams addiction.” An addiction is neither something someone does that makes you feel badly nor something that makes someone feel badly that you don’t want to stop doing. An addiction is something that is interfering with you having a happy life that you actively want to stop but CAN’T HELP YOURSELF. I think only my third example is a true addiction, and the rest are just examples of one or both of you being a-holes.
Does this guy make you feel bad about yourself, LW? does he do things to actively undermine your self-esteem? Was this confession about your fb friend made when you were feeling particularly vulnerable or when he was feeling particularly crappy about himself? If so, leave. Not because he’s an addict, but because he’s a dick. If he doesn’t know the difference between disclosing the truth about his addiction and lashing out because he’s feeling badly and wants to drag you down too, he’s in no place to submit other people to his mess.
However, I wonder if the confession happened because you feel badly about yourself and forced him to confirm those beliefs. Did you grill him about all of it and keep at him till he confessed something that was truly over the line? If so, you’re in no place to submit other people to your mess. If you insist on knowing the worst about people, you will never be let down, and some of us have done some really weird stuff, sexually speaking. I’m sure if my boyfriend sat down and forced me to confess every bizarre thing I’d ever fantasized about, he might be a little disturbed, as I would him. People have a right to private headspace.
Either way, I think this relationship is too toxic. MOA.
Renee February 6, 2012, 1:27 pm
Do I believe it is an addiction? Yes.
It may start out innocently as a young teen, and because male hormones react as a hit of oxytocin to their body and brain a man can lose control in seeking it. Just because one could explain what happens biologically, doesn’t justify his behavior. All I’m saying is that’s how addiction happens. We know how addictions occur, all more the reason why we all need productive hobbies we can do in our spare time.
I’m really not a fan of sex ed that ‘promotes’ masturbation.* Does it happen and should it be addressed? Yes. It shouldn’t be a free pass to have no control of one’s ability, that they can’t maintain a functional and healthy sexual relationship.
I could never be together long term with a person who such an addiction. He needs to first address his addiction, before he can ever restart any relationship with a woman. Maybe the natural consequences of hurting you and you MOA is apart of his treatment to stop refraining from such activity.
* I realize I’m in the small minority on that here on disagree with the promotion. I’m taking it from the perspective of knowing people in my past with great talents, who would rather sit in front of porn, then engage in their true pursuits.
Bossy Italian Wife February 6, 2012, 1:41 pm
I understand your hurt over the situation of him masturbating to your FB friend’s picture, and generally I would be like “Whoa! Why did he admit that?!” BUT in this case, he admitted this to you in an effort to cop to his addiction. I agree with some others about not using his addiction as an excuse to hurt you, but I don’t know that he was trying to hurt you, although inadvertently, he did.
The real issue for you should be whether or not you can handle being with someone who has an addiction to pornography. This is a real issue for your boyfriend, and one that hits you both as a couple right in the kisser: the sex department. In all truth, you may not WANT to deal with his issue–like you say, you are hoping for him to find peace about this, but you aren’t sure you can. Let me be clear: THAT IS TOTALLY OKAY.
You aren’t required to stay with someone [even if you genuinely care for them] if they have a condition that is a deal breaker. You sound really mature about the situation, and it is likely you will come to realize this in time on your own. That being said, give yourself permission to explore whether or not this relationship is for you given all that being with a pornography addict may entail. You just might not be down for that type of lifestyle, and that is OKAY.
parton_doll February 6, 2012, 2:22 pm
Always love your advice. Reasonable, practical, and to the point … just what a lot of LW need to hear 🙂
slamy February 6, 2012, 1:45 pm
Why on earth would he tell you that? What a jerk. I’d break up with him, but that’s just me. I decided that anyone who makes me feel “less than” doesn’t deserve to experience any of my good qualities.
You know what? I’m sure my exes have been attracted to my friends. Maybe one yanked it to photos of a friend. If they EVER told me about it, I’d peace out. Seriously, what a scumbag.
landygirl February 6, 2012, 2:46 pm
LW, whatever your bf’s problem is, it wasn’t brought on by your weight. Women need to stop personalizing their partners’ problems. This guy would be an addict no matter who he was with so don’t blame yourself for it.
Also, he sounds like a tool. Maybe you don’t think you can do any better than him but I’m betting that you probably could.
oldie February 6, 2012, 3:59 pm
This is so true. Weight and looks in general are significant for getting noticed and starting a relationship, but after that, for somebody who actually loves you, they are less important than other things. You don’t stop loving somebody because of a 20 or 30 pound weight gain. Of course, if you never passed beyond the infatuation of physical attraction to getting to really know and love the other person, then 20 or 30 pounds could be the deal breaker, but equally so could be the passage of time and a generally wandering eye. Anybody actually think Donald Trump has ever loved any of his wives? That sort of relationship comes with a sell-by date, and not just because more costly pre-nup arrangements kick in.
Francine February 6, 2012, 6:44 pm
Your boyfriend has an addiction that he’s trying to work through and lots of people fantasize about things that they in no way desire in real life (ie. rape fantasies).
But to TELL you that he’s waxing the Ferrari to a fb pic of one of your friends!? Wow. Sounds like he’s a porn addict and a jerk. He doesn’t seem to care about your feelings. MOA.
Heather February 6, 2012, 7:41 pm
I feel like I’m pretty late to the punch on this, but I’ll throw something your way anyways.
I haven’t dated anyone with an addiction, but my brother was an addict/alcoholic/drug dealer for many years. I’ve mentioned this a couple times on here before in regards to other letters. A lot of people are criticizing your SO for telling you about masturbating to your friend’s photos. I disagree in that I think it’s a good thing he told you, if only now for the fact that you can know the extent of his issue and decide whether or not its a dealbreaker for you. (Personally, it would be a immediate dealbreaker for me.) I do think he did it for selfish reasons though. I get the sense that he told you out of some selfish sense of “getting it off his chest”, and as others have mentioned, to feel better about himself, instead of doing it because he knew that you needed to decide whether or not to stay with him.
Realistically, people who are recovering from addiction should not be in relationships. I’m not a psychologist, I’m saying this only from witnessing it. He is not in a position to take care of himself and love himself yet because of his addiction, and therefore, he cannot give you what is necessary for a healthy relationship. He can’t do both-work on his addiction, especially not this one specifically, and give you what you need.
You have absolutely every right to be hurt because of what he did. And please, do not feel obligated to stay with him. The only person that can help him is himself. And it seems like you are only hurting yourself by staying with him. My advice would be to let this one go and move on to live a happy life, with someone who is able to meet your needs and vice versa.
Also, and I know you can’t help how his actions make you feel, I can promise you that you are beautiful and this isn’t about you or how you look. You rock LW!