I love him a lot and I want us to be together for our baby but this situation just seems so effed up. He said he wants to be with me and our baby and that he doesn’t want her to have another kid for him. He also begged me if we could still just try and be together, but I can’t figure out what to do but hope she’s lying. She had their first kid to trap him but he doesn’t want to be with her at all. I need help. This is tearing me apart. — Confused Baby Mama
You mentioned a couple times how you want to stay with your boyfriend “for the baby,” but if you really want to do something for that child you’re carrying, talk to a lawyer about lining up child support and stay away from any relationship drama — most specifically with your baby daddy — that will distract you from effectively caring for your offspring. This “man” is not prepared to be the partner or parent you need him to be, so forget about staying with him or hoping his other baby mama is lying, and focus instead on how you can be the best parent possible to your poor kid to make up for the joke of a dad he’s going to grow up with.
One of the ways you can be a good parent to your child is teaching him or her about the birds and the bees — a lesson your ex clearly missed out on. He doesn’t know how he got his other ex-girlfriend pregnant? Here’s a hint for him: the same way he got her pregnant the first time! The same way he got YOU pregnant. And here’s a hint for you: don’t ever let it happen again. Not with him, anyway.
P.S. You don’t REALLY believe that if your baby daddy got some other woman pregnant it happened in this last week that you were technically broken up, do you? Even women who are meticulously trying to get pregnant and taking Early Response tests ever other hour don’t get results that quickly. Wake up and smell the coffee, sugar.
6napkinburger November 9, 2011, 3:03 pm
I don’t understand this timeline at all.
TheOtherMe November 9, 2011, 3:08 pm
Maybe they broke up more than once ? Or maybe he’s just that virile that he can knock up women in only a week !
silver_dragon_girl November 9, 2011, 3:21 pm
I’m assuming that they broke up at least once before, or maybe went “on a break” for a while, or something. This is one of those “all the crucial details are missing” letters.
TheReverendMrs November 9, 2011, 5:47 pm
I am assuming the same thing…though I am not sure it really matters in the long run. Whether or not they were on a break or not, this situation has way too much drama.
Carolynasaurus November 9, 2011, 3:06 pm
Wendy’s right, this guy is bad news. He’s immature, he’s deceptive, and he’s just plain skeevy. Protect yourself now by getting child support and establishing any sort of custody agreement. You may not want him to have any sort of custody, but it’s best to create some sort of agreement that way he can’t go back on it (demanding to see the child when he can’t).
At some point in the future, there may be a chance that he’ll grow and mature and turn into a good father and maybe even a supportive partner, but you can’t hang your hopes and your life on that. Move forward with this new direction your life has taken, without him.
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 3:08 pm
Really? You think she had this baby to trap him? Why…because he’s such a catch? I despise women who choose to believe their completely UNTRUSTWORTHY boyfriend/exboyfriend/bang buddy/whatever for no reason.
Also – I would like to inform you about a little place called planned parenthood where birth control can be bought at a cheap price if you can’t afford regular birth control. I recommend you hand it out to all three of you in this triangle of disaster.
TaraMonster November 9, 2011, 4:41 pm
You know what I heard this morning, LW? That ridiculous personhood amendment was defeated in Miss. Do you know what that means? Birth control is STILL legal in Miss. and other parts of the country, wherever you may live. At least until the next election cycle.
caitie_didn't November 10, 2011, 9:08 am
Seriously. All I could think reading this was “jesus, WRAP IT UP people”.
Rachel November 9, 2011, 3:09 pm
I think adoption sounds like a great option here. I don’t say that to be condescending; I truly think that is what would be best for the child.
rainbow November 9, 2011, 4:36 pm
i think your comment is out of line. you don’t know this woman enough to say that.
hhr November 9, 2011, 4:48 pm
None of us knows her, but we’re all sharing our opinions and advising her on what to do with her life.
rrrainbow November 9, 2011, 7:15 pm
yeah, but there’s a difference between telling someone who can’t see she’s being cheated on to dump a guy and get a vibrator and a yoga instructor and telling someone in this kind of trouble, who’s trying to get advice on how to be the best mom she can be and who didn’t even ask about adoption, that she’s unfit to be a mother and her baby would be better off someplace else. have a fucking heart.
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 7:36 pm
Really? I didn’t get the feeling she was concerned about the baby at all. I got the feeling she was wanting us to tell her that she should try to make things work with him and was just conveniently able to use the baby as an excuse to continue dating him. The way she talks about his first baby mama makes it seem like she is competing with her – and over what? His awesome self?
Sorry but I just don’t get her caring about the best interests of the child at all. I see her caring about herself and trying to “win” against this other girl. Maybe they think whoever he has the most kids with is the one he REALLY loves.
rainbow November 9, 2011, 7:55 pm
I don’t know… I’ve seen LWs far more childish/idiotic than this one. I’m not saying I think she’ll be mom of the year, but we have no proof she’ll suck. And the fact that she dumped this shadeball of a dude BEFORE she even heard about the other woman’s pregnancy is a good sign, I guess.
Besides, like I wouldn’t want people telling me I shouldn’t do it if I decide to have an abortion, I wouldn’t like them telling me that I should have done it if I decide not to. It’s not like she’s trading blowjobs for crack or something like that, she’s just naive and in a bad relationship. I don’t think the baby is in danger. She can still grow up.
Rachel November 9, 2011, 8:07 pm
I just think that adoption should be considered more often. I’m not saying this woman SHOULD, but I think she should consider it. Adoption is probably one of the most difficult things a person can do, and by no means is it an easy decision.
I personally think that this child would be better off growing up with two loving parents who desperately want a child but cannot have one, rather than growing up in poverty, without a father, and with a child of a mother.
rainbow November 9, 2011, 8:20 pm
No one said anything about poverty, you’re just assuming that. And being a single mother is a valid option. I know a couple of awesome single moms, and a couple of adoptive parents who sucked really bad. Also the other way around, but what I mean is you cannot tell by the configuration of a family how good it will be.
The “with a child of a mother” point is a good one, though.
DonM November 10, 2011, 4:53 pm
We don’t know her, but we know she is gullible, and doesn’t have good morals.
Unless you think believing three impossible things before breakfast doesn’t make you gullible, and further think that having sexual congress with unsuitable people outside of wedlock, in a manner to create children is moral.
You should be responsible, and be married to someone responsible to have children. That way, if, heaven forfend, something happens to one parent, the child still has a responsible parent on which they can depend.
GatorGirl November 9, 2011, 3:11 pm
I fully support your advice Wendy. Staying together “for the baby” is a terrible idea. My mother got pregnant when she was 17 and tried to “make things work” with my father. She dropped out of high school, moved away from her family and support system only to find herself baby-daddy less before I was even born. Don’t give your life up for this guy- make a life for you and your baby.
I have mixed feelings about getting lawyers involved; my mother did not and it worked out best for us. Sure my mom struggled to support the two of us but I never had to go on court mandated visits with my father (who is an alcoholic and a drug addict and has been in and out of jail my entire life). My BF has a similar family situation but there was lawyers and courts involved and he was forced untill his 18th birthday to have regular visits with a man he does not like (and who exposed him to drinking, drug abuse and domestic violence). I’m not saying don’t set something up legally- but really think about it before you do.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 3:31 pm
You bring up an interesting point. In some situations, you can be better off without the courts being involved. While most people say no matter what, involved or not, the father (or mother) should pay his/her share of the costs of raising a child (a mere 17% of income in NY). I disagree.
I had a child with someone who was never involved, never met my kid, wanted nothing to do with any of it. I knew very early on that I would be raising a child alone and planned accordingly. I never wanted a dime from him (and in some ways did not think I should get a dime from him). He was entirely absent. It was as though I had a child on my own, well, I did. I preferred he stuck to his decision and kept away. I thought it best that my child never be a sometimes/maybe option for him. He decided to walk and I accepted it and wanted it to stay that way to avoid the inevitable heartbreak for my child of having an absentee or in-and-out parent. I think in the long run, its been best for all of us, especially my child. All she knows is mom, a loving, self-sufficient one too. I grew up with a father who was in and out of my life and it did a lot of harm and caused a lot of hurt and confusion.
Carolynasaurus November 9, 2011, 3:54 pm
I completely agree with you. The problem is that this is the time when the flakiness of the father will probably have the least amount of effect on the child. If they were both rational, grown-up people and he chose to walk away and she was ok with it, I’d say keep the courts out of it. But this guy is a loser. A manipulative lying one at that. She needs make a decision now about the ability of this guy to be a father and the potential harm he could do to the child’s development. I’ve got to believe see needs the law on her side in this case.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:14 pm
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing, but once the courts are involved, its likely he will get at minimum, visitation rights. Sure, she’d get a little $ each month, maybe. But her child would be forced to see this loser who I assume will not be a good dad, regardless of whether or not he’s paying child support. Its very rare that a parent wins sole custody with no visitation. Could do more harm than good.
bittergaymark November 9, 2011, 6:02 pm
Somehow, I doubt he will be any worse of a dad than she will be as a mom to be perfectly blunt.
Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich November 10, 2011, 2:08 am
DudeInChicago November 11, 2011, 11:03 am
I’m with BGM. Her decision making process is horrendous – at best!
Nadine November 9, 2011, 9:01 pm
I have no strong opinion here, but would the visitation rights with the loser dad maybe lead to a relationship with her siblings, who are equally blameless and could be a source of support?
plasticepoxy November 11, 2011, 10:53 am
Child support and visitation are two separate issues, at least in Minnesota. I had a (loser) boyfriend in the past who had a child from a previous relationship. He had to pay support every month, but he didn’t have rights to see his child. While he wasn’t a great guy, I don’t think this was specific to him only. He’d never met his child and the mom refused contact but did file through the courts for financial support. Perhaps this would also be an option for this LW.
DudeInChicago November 11, 2011, 11:05 am
That sounds so fair. *smh
theattack November 9, 2011, 4:17 pm
But if it turns out that the guy decides to be flaky later on, the mother will not be able to cut legal ties with him. At that point, she will be obligated to maintain these ties with the father. Unless she can prove that the father is absolutely terrible to the child, it’s unlikely that she will be able to change their parenting plan to say that he can never see the child. The child would have a life where her father could pop in and out when he wanted to without any regard to how that affects her.
I personally think the best approach is to not establish legal paternity and to see how the father performs as a parent before she creates a legal obligation for either of them.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:12 pm
And if it provides any sort of ‘I can do this’ attitude for you LW, I had my child at 21. I was obviously very young, still living with my mother, only a high school degree, a car that broke down several times a day and a receptionist job that paid very little. I was I found out I was pregnant in November. By December, I was taking 22 college credits at the local community college and continued through the end of May the following year right before I gave birth, all while working 2 jobs. It was the most draining time in my life. But you know what, I did it. I had very, very little help, even from family, and zero financial help. Less than a year after she was born, I was living in my own apartment (a tiny one bedroom, but man did I love it), finishing up college and the proud mom of a perfect little girl. I will never forget the day I hung my diploma up in our bedroom. Fast forward to now, I have a law degree, a high paying job, a car that’s brand new (my first brand new car!), a lovely and spacious condo and most importantly, a very smart, beautiful and happy little girl who is more independent than I bargained for.
And now I’m crying 🙂 Good luck. You CAN do this if you want it.
GatorGirl November 9, 2011, 4:26 pm
Kudos to you for creating a great life for your child. Have one healthy, stable, and loving parent is way better than forcing your child (and the father) to have a relationship neither of them wants.
My BF has memories of watching his father beat up his step-mother, my earliest memory of my father is visiting him while he was in jail for involuntary manslaughter (although drunk drag racing hardly warrants the involuntary part). Sometimes it really is best to not know your sperm (or egg) donor.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:32 pm
Absolutely agree. It is not always best. I wish more understood that.
FireStar November 9, 2011, 4:30 pm
What a great example for your little girl in responsibility and determination.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:34 pm
Thanks 🙂 I truly believe if someone wants something, whatever that thing may be, it can be achieved. A little hard work never killed anyone.
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:23 pm
Except for that one guy who died.
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:33 pm
(Come on, this was super funny too! It should have like, 5 likes. I’m going to go bug coworkers until it’s a respectable hour to leave. Yes, this is how it’s going to be up until my last day.)
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 4:44 pm
Wow — nice work, LBH! Very impressive. Out of curiosity, was that (ie, college, law school, etc.) always the plan, or do you think your drive/motivation came because of your daughter?
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:52 pm
I actually was an art history major before I became pregnant (mind you, with only a few classes under my belt). I knew I’d need a good paying job and quick so I became a paralegal first, then lawyer. It was never my “dream,” but it pays the bills.
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 4:47 pm
This is somethingn to be extremely proud of. I think sometimes women don’t set the bar high enough for themselves and think that because many others in their position fail – they probably will too – and therefore lose ambition. Stories like yours should be shared!
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:55 pm
I agree, I wish people knew what they are truly capable of. My mom had to go back to school after my dad left when we were little kids (we being me and my 3 siblings). We were poor as they come, just getting by and I took care of the ‘kids’ while my mom was in school and working. She struggled to provide for us but was an incredible inspiration. My brother and sisters are doctors now. I wanted to be that inspiration for my daughter. My mom showed me what it meant to overcome. And here I am, getting teary-eyed again.
I hope the LW sees that it can be done.
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 7:44 pm
Although unfortunately I think you are the exception, not the rule.
Chaotonic November 9, 2011, 8:40 pm
Honest! Wow that was a lot of hard work! Congrats on being just a super awesome mom and independent woman! You are someone to look up to!
Christy November 10, 2011, 7:33 pm
I understand the reasons for not getting the court involved, but I fall on the side of doing it. I think the dad has a right to see his child, even if the child may not like it and he may be a deadbeat (obviously this doesn’t apply if the dad is abusive). Maybe later on the child and dad can have a decent relationship. They wouldn’t have anything to build on if the kid is totally kept away. The court can also force him to provide financial support, which a lot of single moms need. Neither of them may be great parents, but the father has a right and a responsibility to be involved.
Riefer November 9, 2011, 3:12 pm
Agree with Wendy, don’t get romantically involved again. If he wants to be involved in the kid’s life, then that’s great because that’s the best thing for your kid. But keep it at the level of co-parenting, not a romantic relationship.
Also, what’s with the terminology “being pregnant for him” and “having a kid for him”? If these are the words he uses, then that’s fucked up. It sounds like he’s saying she’s doing it for him, and not because either she wanted to, or it was just an accident. Otherwise he’d say “having a kid *with* him”, no?
silver_dragon_girl November 9, 2011, 3:19 pm
I noticed that language too, and it bugged me. It’s kind of creepy, like women are just baby factories…
AKchic November 9, 2011, 4:14 pm
I assumed she meant “by him” rather than “for him”. Mixed up her prepositions. If she didn’t mix them up and truly meant “for” rather than “by” and it was what he said, then yes, there is an added fillip to the story. Either it was his terminology, or his other ex really is a bit of a nutter and his story COULD be a bit more believable. Possibly. Still doesn’t explain the “rebound” sex during the break-up that he conveniently doesn’t remember, unless she is psycho enough to GHB his ass. Always possible. GHB and viagra combos are known, and while difficult, not impossible.
LSS86 November 9, 2011, 6:20 pm
I noticed that too. I’m late to the party here, so with 80 comments, I figured someone would have already brought it up. Unless the LW’s English skills are sub par (maybe it’s not her first language?), that’s really fucked up. You don’t have a baby “for” someone.
Bethany November 9, 2011, 3:18 pm
Honey, you need to MOA- This guy clearly has no sense of loyalty, honesty and respect. He’s a d-bag, and having him around is only going to bring you and your child down. Stay single for a while and focus on being a good mom.
silver_dragon_girl November 9, 2011, 3:18 pm
“She got pregnant to trap me” = Loserspeak for “I will be a deadbeat father to this and any future offspring.”
“I want to be with you and our baby, but not her and her baby, which is also mine, and I don’t want her to have” = Loserspeak for “I do not take responsibility for my actions.”
This guy is just a candidate for Father of the Year.
LW, run far, far away from this guy. BEST case scenario he doesn’t understand how to properly use a condom, got drunk and was taken advantage of by his ex. I would be more likely to believe this if he hadn’t already has one kid with his ex and blamed it on her “trapping him.”
silver_dragon_girl November 9, 2011, 3:47 pm
A lot of the advice so far seems kind of harsh, and I just want to clarify to the LW that I don’t necessarily think you’re stupid or irresponsible. Unplanned pregnancies happen, it’s a fact of life. I think most of the exasperation and harsh judgement is being dolled out toward your boyfriend, at least I hope. It’s very easy for us to see, objectively, that your boyfriend is kind of a loser, irresponsible at the very least, and that you will probably be better off letting him go without any further waffling or drama.
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 4:51 pm
I completely agree. My harsh reaction above was definitely directed towards the boyfriend.
BUT!! If you give drama a stage it will perform.
Someone told me this once when I was complaining about the 10th crazy/manipulative thing my mother in law had done that month, and it really has changed my whole outlook on the way I approach dramatic/negative people.
LW – this guy is no good. It is VERY obvious to all the commenters. You can only control your own actions – and I hope that means not allowing him to continue to wreak havoc on your life. Do you really want your child to have such an unstable role model in their life?
TaraMonster November 9, 2011, 5:24 pm
Yeah. I was kinda snarky above, and I agree with you about the unplanned pregnancy thing. I just think the whole thing reeked of drama from the get-go and she continued on with him. Kind of like what FY is saying about giving the drama a stage. She not only gave it a stage, she threw on a feather boa and slid onto the stage with spirit fingers.
But I’ve always been wary of men who claim women “trapped” them, or that their ex is “crazy,” and generally any dude who fails to take responsibility for his screw ups, or has a laundry list of excuses. I believe these are called “red flags.” LW doesn’t seem to have had this reaction. For the sake of that kid I hope she not only MOA, but also takes this as a learning experience, instead of starting a trend with crummy guys. And also- birth control.
Nina November 10, 2011, 10:10 am
FireStar November 9, 2011, 3:18 pm
You have been broken up for 7 days and in that time he has – while calling you constantly – gotten drunk, somehow contacted his ex, hooked up with his ex and impregnated her and then blacked out but was subsequently told of his exploits (and the immediate magic pregnancy results)? That doesn’t even pretend to make sense. I think you should go and get tested for STDs to make sure you and your baby are safe – if he is setting you up to hear about the newest addition to his family it’s because that addition was already enroute…and not from 7 days ago.
Pinky November 9, 2011, 3:20 pm
Go ahead and flame me, but this crap is the reason why I think people need a license to breed.
GatorGirl November 9, 2011, 3:29 pm
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 3:33 pm
Definitely agree… I know we’re supposed to have compassions for LW’s so that they are more likely to listen to the advice…but this situations just screams trash. I have absolutely no constructive advice to give at all…
Kerrycontrary November 9, 2011, 3:49 pm
agreed. I hate that people who want to have babies, can financially and emotional support them, and provide a stable home have trouble with fertility. But everyone who shouldn’t be having a baby or raising a baby gets pregnant in 2 seconds.
6napkinburger November 9, 2011, 6:11 pm
I always found it facinating that teen magazines with articles on birth control methods, focusing on how easy it was to get pregnant and “just once is enough”; and then look at women’s magazines, with articles on strategies to get pregnant. saying how difficult it was and how timing mattered so much. I remember being in high school, asking my mom about that, being like, is this just one big lie? And she was like, no honey, its THAT much easier for teens to get pregnant than 30 year olds (in addition to, of course, putting me on BC for “hormonal regulation”). And I remember writing a story about a utopian/dystopian world where 15 year olds all got pregnant and gave their babies to 30 year old women who wanted them, and then when they were 30, they got babies from the next generation. That way everyone won (like social security with babies.) I realize now that there are some flaws in this plan but biologically, it wasn’t that dumb.
rainbow November 9, 2011, 8:11 pm
It makes a lot of evolutionary sense. Not only because babies would be created with healthy cells and raised by experienced people, but because we’re really stopping the species from evolving by spacing generations so much. At this rate, with people breeding in their 30’s or 40’s, we won’t get to be X-Men for millions of years!
Pinky November 9, 2011, 9:13 pm
That is VERY true. My friend, a red-headed rocket scientist, donated eggs to pay for her education. She did this a bunch of times in her 20’s. Once she hit 30, her body just stopped producing the same number of eggs. She gave up after a couple more tries. There are some amazingly smart little redheads in the Midwest because of her.
Something More November 10, 2011, 8:48 am
Umm… women are born with ALL of their eggs. We don’t “produce” any more as life goes on.
Pinky November 10, 2011, 10:03 am
You’re right. I didn’t phrase that well at all. Thanks for pointing that out. Women are way less likely to get pregnant at 30 than we are in our 20’s. Accidents happen in all ranges of fertility, but it’s less likely the older you get. When you donate eggs, you’re given fertility drugs to eject more than one out of your ovaries. You’re less likely do do that after 30. Please excuse the use of the wrong verb.
Pinky November 9, 2011, 9:21 pm
I teach at an after-school program for the future world leaders. My sister teaches at-risk kids in a not-so-great neighborhood. I don’t think that the children I work with were allowed to have their feet touch the ground for the first two years of life. These children are almost worshiped by their parents.
In my sister’s class, there are 24 kids. Every one of the kids is an “oops.” Not one of the children comes from a nuclear family. Ten of the children have one parent in jail. Two of the children have both parents in jail. Four of the children are foster children. One child is homeless. Not one child is working on grade level.
I understand that there will be anger over my “nuclear family” comment. There are supportive fathers out there, regardless of marital status. In the socioeconomic climate of my sister’s classroom, this is rarely the case.
AKchic November 9, 2011, 6:05 pm
*hands you her fire-resistant suit*
My idea is to have birth control mixed in with all alcohol/tobacco products. A long-lasting product that works for at least 72 hours for each drink/tobacco product you use. For both males and females. It would mean that we’d never have to deal with FAS babies anymore. Plus, most drug addicts also drink and smoke, so they wouldn’t be breeding either. If they want a child – they’d have to stop drinking and smoking!
Jubietta November 9, 2011, 8:33 pm
OMG, OMG, OMG! Yes, if there’s a planet where this is reality I want to move there!
Pinky November 9, 2011, 9:23 pm
Brilliant! Thanks for the fire-resistant suit. 🙂
Bethany November 10, 2011, 7:59 pm
I had a similar idea! It was to give teenage girls IUD’s and you’d have to pay to have them taken out. That way you couldn’t have a baby unless you actively prepared for it. However my theory is flawed, because IUDs are only good for up to 12 years (depending on what kind you get), and how in the heck are we going to implant them in all these kids? A girl can dream, I guess…
Renee November 10, 2011, 3:21 am
OK, I’ll flame. In all serious though.
Recently in the news they were covering a story in North Carolina about forced sterilization. You know eugenics…. There is nothing to like at all at your above statement.
“Elaine Riddick was 13 years old when she got pregnant after being raped by a neighbor in Winfall, N.C., in 1967. The state ordered that immediately after giving birth, she should be sterilized. Doctors cut and tied off her fallopian tubes.”
“Riddick’s records reveal that a five-person state eugenics board in Raleigh had approved a recommendation that she be sterilized. The records label Riddick as “feebleminded” and “promiscuous.” They said her schoolwork was poor and that she “does not get along well with others.””
“Eugenics was a scientific theory that grew in popularity during the 1920s. Eugenicists believed that poverty, promiscuity and alcoholism were traits that were inherited. To eliminate those society ills and improve society’s gene pool, proponents of the theory argued that those that exhibited the traits should be sterilized. Some of America’s wealthiest citizens of the time were eugenicists including Dr. Clarence Gamble of the Procter and Gamble fortune and James Hanes of the hosiery company. Hanes helped found the Human Betterment League which promoted the cause of eugenicists.
It began as a way to control welfare spending on poor white women and men, but over time, North Carolina shifted focus, targeting more women and more blacks than whites. A third of the sterilizations performed in North Carolina were done on girls under the age of 18”
bittergaymark November 10, 2011, 3:41 am
Eh, honestly, if this was does evenly across ALL the races, and we simply did this to all the people who were genuinely “feeble minded” I’d be all for it. Of course, it would instantly wipe out much of the tea party… But so be it.
NEWSFLASH: The world’s population has damn near fucking doubled since I was born in 1970. DOUBLED!!! Then it was like 3.7 billion now it’s over 7 billion. It’s fucking insane. Beyond that actually. Meanwhile, day after day, we are bombarded here on DW with vacuous douchebaggettes who are clearly too damn stupid to use birth control… So I say bring it on, baby. Bring it on. Desperate times = desperate measures.
haggith November 10, 2011, 3:58 am
Pinky November 10, 2011, 10:15 am
I read that article. What happened to Elaine Riddick was a travesty. She was victimized on multiple levels. I’ve also heard about eugenics. My mom’s side of the family that stayed in Europe during WWII was wiped out because of it.
My frustration is with people who aren’t personally responsible. I think most people are frustrated with individuals who lack personal responsibility. There is a huge difference between telling someone to use common sense and sticking an entire ethic group in a gas chamber.
Christy November 10, 2011, 7:39 pm
Thank you for posting this. I am disturbed anytime someone mentions population control.
JK November 9, 2011, 3:20 pm
Holy crap, these trainwreck letter are so horribly entertaining. How do people not use at least some type of BC?? I know accidents can happen, but I doubt all these unplanned pregnancies are truly accidents.
JK November 9, 2011, 3:24 pm
I feel the same way!
It honestly breaks my heart when people you know would be good parents and actually can take care of their kids have trouble conceiving or adopting, and other people pretty much have one baby after another.
JK November 9, 2011, 3:24 pm
whoops, was meant to be reply to Pinky
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:26 pm
Lol – I was going to say — I’m really glad you feel the same as yourself, JK. Feels good to be so sure, right?
JK November 10, 2011, 9:39 am
I know it´s no excuse, but I was just starting a lovely migraine when I commented (made even more lovely by the fact that I was alone with the girls, since my husband was working late) But today I´m back to normal, or as normal as I can be. 🙂
Good to see youré more chirpy since your decision AP!!!
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:22 pm
Wendy should have a “trainwreck” category so we can just jumpt to those.
EB November 9, 2011, 3:22 pm
After reading this letter, I seriously hope you consider adoption.
*I am not even trying to be snarky, just brutally honest; I already feel bad for this kid and it has not even been born yet.
6napkinburger November 9, 2011, 3:25 pm
People do realize that just because they get pregnant does not mean they have to have babies, right? Now, it’s a little late for this LW here, but, just saying. Still legal, people.
Taylor November 9, 2011, 4:40 pm
bittergaymark November 9, 2011, 5:28 pm
You said it, sister.
AKchic November 9, 2011, 6:01 pm
There’s a joke among some of my friends that certain individuals qualify for a “post-birth abortion”. We reserve that designation for child molesters, rapists, murderers, and people who use their cell phones during performances.
LSS86 November 9, 2011, 6:39 pm
Was that a vague reference to a Firefly quote…?
“If you take sexual advantage of her, you’re going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.”
*HmC* November 9, 2011, 6:56 pm
Yay for reference to Firefly!
AKchic November 9, 2011, 7:02 pm
Maaaaybe… *big grin for catching the veiled reference*
LSS86 November 9, 2011, 8:00 pm
I thought it was too close to not be a reference, but then again, you could just be as brilliant as Joss Whedon and have come up with it independently. I mean, I don’t know you, you could be anyone.
AKchic November 9, 2011, 8:24 pm
Perhaps it’s both 🙂 Brilliant as Whedon AND a reference (however veiled/vague).
Dammit, now I want to go watch Firefly tonight. Can’t though, I’m working on other projects.
Slamy November 9, 2011, 6:37 pm
Yep Yep Yep Yep
Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich November 10, 2011, 2:12 am
Still legal, for now.
kali November 10, 2011, 5:26 pm
omg, THANK YOU! I didn’t want to say it but yes! Why does everyone who finds themselves in this position automatically think they need to have the child?
Women fought long and hard to have alternatives and options and sometimes it seems that the Teen Mom generation (and others, to be fair) think they MUST have the child…
It’s tough to raise a child with a partner, it’s even tougher on one’s own. And it would be incredibly tough to go through pregnancy, labor and delivery and then give up the child. Why take on that fate when there are viable, legal options??
Or just use reliable birth control to begin with. The world already has too many people in it.
(I may need to borrow the flameproof suit, AKchic!)
HmC November 9, 2011, 3:28 pm
Kudos to everyone else for the constructive advice. Letters like this make me just throw my hands up in the air in disgust that there are so many people like this out there, and that they’re creating new lives to fuck up on top of it. I guess I’m being a jerk by saying this, but I just can’t imagine good advice penetrating this level of dumb and irresponsible behavior.
bittergaymark November 9, 2011, 5:38 pm
I feel the same way. I think that we, as a society, have overly destigmatized the situation to the point where “it’s normal” and acceptable. Never mind made that a huge, huge percentage of these people quickly prove to be just as inept at parenting as they were at using birth control…
ForeverYoung November 9, 2011, 7:47 pm
You know i’ve actually thought a lot about it and I have no solutions. People can no longer claim ignorance – everyone over the age of 18 knows how babies are made and knows about birth control. There are so many cheap options out there. I agree that the destigmatization of it is definitely NOT helping, but i’m not sure what will help. It seems like lately 85% of the people that are procreating are the ones that shouldn’t be, and their kids have young kids because they grew up thinking it was normal, and so the cycle continues.
I have no compassion for the parents – but I have unlimited compassion for the poor kids in these situations. Like really – some kid is going to have two half siblings within probably 2 years of his age with a dead beat dad?
Turtledove November 9, 2011, 3:32 pm
New babies and relationship drama go together about as well as coffee and sardines. You’re going to be hormonal and sleep deprived as it is, any drama you invite into your life during this time is just going to make everything 100x worse.
The best thing you can do for your child right now is to step back from your relationship with this guy. He effed up royally. I mean, broken up or not, who starts banging someone else when you’re 4 months pregnant? He ought to be preparing himself for the responsibility of raising another child, not out creating a third. So you shouldn’t trust him and if he wants back in, he should prove he’s worthy of it by being present, helpful, and drama free during those first few stressful months of new parenthood.
Maybe he’ll wind up being a decent father and partner. But you can’t assume he will be based on the evidence you’ve got. So table any discussion of a romantic relationship for a year and figure out how you’re going to raise your baby (child support discussions included). You’ve got somebody more important than either of you to think of now so you’ve got to be strategic on how you deal with things. Any decision you make regarding this man has to be viewed through the lens on what’s best for the child. And right now, being with this guy is not it.
Greebo November 9, 2011, 3:51 pm
I feel so badly for these babies born to mothers who latch on to deadbeats, and smarmy, smooth-talking ‘fathers’ who barely stick around beyond conception. This is like an episode of Maury or Springer, and I can’t help but think of friends who have waited years to adopt a baby to cherish and nurture.
Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but this loser guy is no catch. LW, why, why, why would you even consider taking this guy back into your life? I’ll bet he’s told his other “baby mama” that she’s the only one for him, your pregnancy was an accident, etc….right up until she kicked him out or he decided he was tired of her and their kids.
Renee November 9, 2011, 4:01 pm
I’m a strong dad advocate, but right now Wendy is right. Child support, emotional support from your family, and see what social services that you qualify for you and your baby. If he wants to be there for you and the baby, fine let the door be open, but now the focus must be on the wellbeing of the baby and you.
AKchic November 9, 2011, 4:05 pm
How old are you all? My fucking Goddess, I feel like I’m reading a letter from a high school-aged girl. “Baby mama”, “baby daddy”. Have some fucking respect for yourself. Dumbass ghetto-trash started calling their childrens’ fathers “baby daddy” because they didn’t respect them enough to call them by their names (if they even knew the father’s name), or by the appelation of “father”, “dad”, or even “sperm donor”. Then, they were too poor to allow the child ownership of the father, as in “baby’s daddy”, so it became “baby daddy”. Are you so poor (in self-esteem, education, and linguistics) to allow your child ownership of the word “mama”? “Daddy”?
Educate yourself. In your ramblings, you have managed to confuse the hell out of all of us. The timeline is off. When the hell did he knock up his child’s mother the second time? Getting you pregnant “at the same time” implies that you got pregnant within the same sexual encounter, or, at the very least, within the same month. If you two were separated and he did it as a way to cope with the pain of his loss, well – then he’s the dumbass for not using protection and the ball is in your court. If he was cheating – again, the ball is in your court.
Get to an attorney and see what your options are in your state. You have a lot of emotional/mental growing up to do, if your letter is any indication of your normal state of mind.
HmC November 9, 2011, 4:23 pm
Actually, I think the terms “baby mama” or “baby daddy” emerged to give a nifty name to a relatively new and growing phenomenon… they weren’t necessary before because the other parent of your kids was simply, my husband, or my wife. What a concept!
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:31 pm
Or you could just call them “the mother” or “the father” and not insult every person who has ever had a child out of wedlock or divorced after having children with their spouse. WHAT A CONCEPT!
HmC November 9, 2011, 4:44 pm
Color me old-fashioned and judgmental for appreciating the concept of getting married before having kids… I certainly wasn’t insulting divorcees. If you’re divorced, you call someone your ex-husband or ex-wife, not your baby mama or baby daddy… right? But I guess in a way I am judgmental about having kids without considering getting married first. I think kids do benefit from a stable family. But of course I know that context matters and not every situation is suited to marriage etc…. anyway, don’t want to crack open that whole can of worms…
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:48 pm
My parents are divorced and they refer to each other when talking to me and my siblings as “your father/mother.” I know several people who’ve had children before being married, adopted as a single person and children of divorces. They all use the common terms mom/dad/mother/father. I’m a pretty conservative person, but this is not that or old-fashioned. Its rude.
HmC November 9, 2011, 4:54 pm
What is rude exactly? My value on marriage before kids?
I just read your blurb above about your life, and honestly, I’m not insulting you personally. I think what you’ve accomplished is impressive! I’m very happy for you and your daughter. But in reality, I think that having kids super young, before getting married, and still being as successful as you have been, is more the exception than the rule. That’s just what I believe. It’s not what I would personally encourage others to do, like my own kids, for example. But I wouldn’t disown them if it happened, either.
I’m being honest about my values and beliefs here. I’m not trying to be rude, and I’m sorry if my initial comment offended you or came across as more judgmental than I meant it.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:58 pm
I’m sorry for jumping on you. I get the perfect-world concept you think is best. What I thought was rude was that you assumed if someone isn’t married, then they must all refer to the child’s other parent as babymama/baby daddy, which I agree is a trashy term.
HmC November 9, 2011, 5:02 pm
No idea how you got that from what I said. But anyway, I don’t think that at all. And yes, it is a “perfect world” concept, that’s a good way to put it. Of course, I know the world is far from perfect!
Pinky November 9, 2011, 9:30 pm
My mother refers to my father as, “that asshole.” She’s right, but it was a bit dicey in elementary school when I had to tell the class my parents’ names.
bittergaymark November 10, 2011, 2:32 am
Very classy of your mom. I’m sure it gave you a great opinion of men. I might call her — “bitch who sure knows how to pick ’em.”
Pinky November 10, 2011, 10:18 am
Ooooh, I think I’ll change her heading in my cell phone. She lives 20 minutes away, but I see her about as often as I see my dentist. The effect is about the same, though.
lets_be_honest November 9, 2011, 4:49 pm
Also, a stable family does not always have to mean Mom, Dad, 2.5 kids and a puppy.
6napkinburger November 9, 2011, 4:52 pm
See other post about the lack of puppies. True story.
HmC November 9, 2011, 4:55 pm
Obviously. There is not perfect recipe for stability. That’s not what I’m saying.
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:21 pm
Especially for the 0.5 kid – he must be really unstable.
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:28 pm
(Oh come on, that was super funny. I should have, like, 10 likes by now.)
Addie Pray November 9, 2011, 5:31 pm
I got so excited that I had a like, then I remembered I liked it myself. Tough crowd today. Too bad, because I’m on fire. I’m going to try to go make my coworkers laugh. I’m not doing any work.
silver_dragon_girl November 9, 2011, 5:41 pm
That’s how I’ll be tomorrow. Expect frequent commenting in the morning 😉
DonM November 10, 2011, 5:20 pm
Actuall, even numbers of kids are stable. Odd numbers always leave someone out.
GertietheDino November 9, 2011, 5:50 pm
Being married (either before or after having children) does not necessarily connote stability.
GatorGirl November 9, 2011, 4:34 pm
I don’t see a problem with the terms “baby daddy” and “sperm donor” – that’s what a lot of the guys are. And clearly this guy falls into this category. He is not a father and doesn’t deserve any more respect then he’s being given. Just because you supply half of the genetic material to form a child does not mean you a parent. I agree these terms can be disrespectful, but sometimes people don’t deserve respect.
Also- I’m for women who are deadbeat moms being called “baby mama” and “egg donors” because that’s what they are.
AKchic November 9, 2011, 4:55 pm
As a child grows up, what kind of example does it set for the child? To hear their custodial parent degenerate their other parent (whether around or not) as a sub-human unworthy of any appelation or ownership? Grammatically incorrect, trashy, and dismissive. These (erstwhile) ladies had enough “respect” to spread their legs and indulge in carnal pleasures of the flesh with the guy, but they don’t respect the fact that without this individual, for all his flaws (personality or otherwise), they would not have the child they have. They could at least respect the fact that yes, he may not be a good person, but without him, there would be no child in their life at that moment. No child to love, to cuddle, to parent. At least respect THAT much. The guy had good enough taste to find the female attractive enough to sleep with and impregnate (although, that is dubious in and of itself, but we’ll consider it a good thing for this discussion).
Eventually, a child knows that half of themselves is the very “baby daddy” that the mother has been insulting, disrespecting, and generally calling into question for that child’s entire life. It will (and in many ways does) make the child question their own self-worth.
My first husband was a monster of a person, but you will not hear me say one single negative thing about him while my kids are in the same house. Little ears hear things we don’t want them to.
GatorGirl November 9, 2011, 5:22 pm
I didn’t say anything about degrading the other parent in front of the children. That is unacceptable. But I dont see the problem when talking to a peer to refer to someone as a sperm donor if that’s truly all they are. I don’t consider my “father” anything more than a sperm donor- because that’s what he is. My mother has never spoken ill of him in front of me…I’ve come to this on my own. Just because you supply part of the genetic material doesn’t mean you’re a parent and should be given the honor of being called one.
And yes, “baby daddy” is bad grammar, but really who uses perfect grammar all of the time?
Renee November 9, 2011, 5:02 pm
AKchic, I live with lots of ‘baby mama’ drama in my neighborhood, it’s a term commonly use that I dislike. I always refrain from it and treat parents and children no matter the situation with respect out of need to defuse the disruptive instability in their lives. I do find it a bit hypocritical to complain how immature LW might be, considering you’re best advice is ‘Grow the f*ck up.’ Educated individuals don’t typically give advice with loads of profanity.
Renee November 9, 2011, 5:06 pm
Sorry to add on but remember LW come to Wendy for honest charitable advice, let’s not rip them up completely in the comment section and scare them away.
DonM November 10, 2011, 4:55 pm
If advice from Wendy is scary, they should certainly be aftraid to have a child with an immature lout.
AKchic November 9, 2011, 5:56 pm
Frustration at the “sound” of her letter does warrant a “grow the fuck up” from me. If she is in her late 20s or older and sounds like a teenager, then yes, she needs a brutally honest wake-up call. If she is a younger individual and is whiny, then she needs a brutally honest eye-opener that her fantasy of adult life is now shattered and she needs to come to reality faster than she had planned on previously.
Should she choose to stay with the father of her child, her child will have a half-sibling very close in age, plus an older half-sibling. Kids she will have to deal with as a caring, considerate step-parent to. She cannot just choose to ban them from her home if the father of those children live with her. If she chooses to keep the status quo, as in stay broken up with the father, then she needs to re-evaluate her entire life plan (if she has one), and figure out finances, legal aspects, child support, visitation, custody issues, what happens if she gets injured after the baby is born (or dies unexpectedly), a will, life insurance, etc. All of this needs to be done as soon as possible. Not whining about how she isn’t sure about getting back together because she’s frustrated that he knocked up his child’s mother again. It happened, and there’s nothing she can do to change that. All she can do is choose how to react to it, and choose how she is going to allow it to affect her life from here on out. Either she accepts it, him, and the package deal and they move on together; or she accepts it, rejects him and moves on on her own and prepares to have the baby on her own.
She doesn’t have time to throw herself a pity party. There are no time-outs in life when it comes to a baby. It’s time to get her head in the game and get her ass in gear. Period. That is a “grow the fuck up” situation. No sugar-coating it. That’s as charitable as I get about this situation, having been there myself at 16.
Landygirl November 9, 2011, 4:58 pm
The letter isn’t really cohesive and the timeline of events makes no sense. I’ll just say this….birth control is a good thing and all women with working reproductive systems should use it until they are in a stable relationship with a stable partner. Men, put a raincoat on it too.
bittergaymark November 9, 2011, 5:25 pm
Always a brilliant move to get knocked up when one is in such a secure, solid and healthy relationship. And to only do so with somebody who clearly has such a good handle on their drinking, too. Really good job here, LW! Bravo, Veronica. Bravo. A true paragon of virtue and wisdom. Ladies? Please take note… With proper care and planning, this, too, could happen to you! Oh, happy day…
Calle November 9, 2011, 7:41 pm
Agree, but I’d go even further. I may get flamed for this, but I have always thought that people should use two forms of birth control (pill and condom, etc.) unless they have the means or desire to raise a child or are able to pay and emotionally deal with an abortion or adoption. Crap happens. Hell, if you take your pill at a different time (say by three or four hours) every day you are opening up the chances of getting knocked up. Condoms tear. For example, I’m talking about people who decide to ditch the condoms and only go with the pill after only knowing each other for a couple of weeks. Another example is teenagers that can’t pay for an abortion or live in a state that only minimally provides the service and won’t go down to Planned Parenthood to get themselves the pill and some condoms. Have sex or even drunken sex but people need to use birth control to the max or be preprared.
Pinky November 9, 2011, 9:36 pm
No flames from me, Calle. I agree with you. There was an article recently about women who use birth control pills choosing boring mates. I think that women who use birth control pills tend to choose stable, responsible mates because they are responsible for their own reproduction.
Britannia November 9, 2011, 11:48 pm
I’m in complete agreement with you. I’ve always found it baffling that teenagers can find the time to go to wild parties and have sex, but can’t set aside an afternoon to take the bus to Planned Parenthood (or even a Gay Pride event) and stock up on condoms and knowledge.
My mother was always very very very into providing me with knowledge and resources about sexual health, but I knew that she would flip out if I ever actually had sex, so you know what I did? My grandma gave me a really ugly coat for Christmas, so I took it to the mall and returned it for cash. I took the bus over to PP and used that cash to get a stockpile of birth control. Simple as that. Well, it might not anymore because this was over 10 years ago, but still. If I had the wherewithal to do that when I was 12 years old, these 16 year olds can definitely take some effing responsibility for themselves.
Also, it should be noted that the morning-after pill is insanely easy to obtain. At the very least, have your “one night stand” take you to a Walgreens and spend the $50. It’s much cheaper than an abortion or a baby will ever be. (For the record, you can buy AS MANY BOXES of birth control and morning after pills as you want, at almost 50% the price in the States, if you buy the stuff in Mexico, and it’s all chemically equivalent to what you get in the States. THERE ARE NO EXCUSES FOR NOT USING BIRTH CONTROL.)
CatsMeow November 9, 2011, 10:09 pm
Heathers! My fav.
bittergaymark November 10, 2011, 2:35 am
Hah. I am amazed anybody caught that reference. It is pretty obscure — that quote. I only left it in mainly for my own amusement and for how fabulous it just sounds even on it’s own. So… Bravo, CatMeow. Bravo.
FireStar November 9, 2011, 7:21 pm
I’m not sure why so many are tearing into the LW. We don’t know that the pregnancy was planned – it sure doesn’t sound it. Would it be fabulous if everyone used birth control responsibly? Yep. But unplanned pregnancies happen and berating her over it isn’t helpful. She didn’t write in asking for opinions on breeding or adoption or abortions. Her virtue certainly shouldn’t be fodder for comment. No one can speak to that. Quite frankly no one should. She asked what to do with the father or her unborn child and her relationship with him.
So LW follow Wendy’s advice. Focus on your baby. See about his/her health and provide the most loving and stable environment you can for him/her. Right now that means walking away from your boyfriend and all the drama surrounding his activities with his other child’s mother. lets_be_honest is an excellent example of what you can accomplish if you put your mind and heart to something when faced with a similar situation. It doesn’t necessarily mean a career in law if you don’t want one – but you clearly can create a safe and secure life for you and your child. If your ex is involved with your child’s life or if you choose to include him in your child’s life then insure that you secure adequate child support.
You’ve made some mistakes but you don’t have to be mired in misery because of them and you are not a bad person because of those decisions. Just do better going forward. If you put your child’s interest first, then you will be okay. Good Luck.
rainbow November 9, 2011, 7:59 pm
HmC November 9, 2011, 9:50 pm
You’re right of course, constructive advice is why people write to Dear Wendy, and it’s probably got the best chance of breaking through to the LW. I do admire that you, Wendy, and others were able to instruct the LW in a positive way. And maybe if I were a better person, I could muster it. I almost always can for most LW’s, as I’m not particularly judgmental when it comes to what others choose to do with their genitals. I think the problem here, for me, is that I see these unplanned, unwanted (here at least by the father if not by the mother) babies coming into horrible, unstable situations, and I see red. I see red for the babies, and ultimately, selfishly, for society and myself. Maybe it’s because in my line of work, I come into contact with families in all kinds of fucked up situations, and it’s always the kids suffering as a result of some petty bullshit the parents have yet again drummed up. Parents who shouldn’t be parents in the first place.
Some of the kids still turn out ok. Many of them don’t. And most of time? They go on to repeat the cycle of bad parenting all over again, to exponential consequences. I’d even go so far as to say that unwanted, neglected babies are the very basis of pretty much every major social problem that we have in modern society- all sorts of crime, drug abuse, over-reliance on government aid etc. I see it all on a continual basis. And it makes me so sad that the whole insufferable cycle is so easily preventable with a tiny bit of self-control and common sense (birth control, which is free for pretty much anyone who can find a Planned Parenthood!).
So yeah, I see an LW like this, and I can’t get myself to comment very constructively. If I thought there was a snowball’s chance in hell that someone like this would actually turn their life around due to some online comments, maybe I could. But I don’t think that anyone who would make the above choices in their life would suddenly realize the error of their ways due to some articulate, well-meaning anonymous stranger.
Maybe I shouldn’t comment at all. Maybe this LW will read my comment and think, “I’ll show her!” I freaking hope she does!
Ross Geller November 10, 2011, 4:07 pm
We were on a break!
Bethany November 10, 2011, 8:07 pm
Still too soon Ross!
joe November 10, 2011, 8:36 pm
he’s a playa, the girls b fools
woohoo for NSA fun
Wacky Hermit November 10, 2011, 10:38 pm
I wonder if it had ever occurred to the LW that if the guy truly wants to stay with her because of the baby, that he would doubly so want to be with the other lady who not only is also having his baby, but already has another of his babies. That alone puts the lie to the idea that this is the real reason he wants to be with her.
KathyP November 11, 2011, 8:30 am
Seriously consider adoption. If the ‘baby mama’ goes through these mind games with herself, she’s in no position to raise this child, either. There are plenty of couples out there who can give this baby a stable, secure home; something she is most probably unable to do.
j November 11, 2011, 8:52 pm
drdre January 15, 2012, 12:11 am
Who had a baby to trap this loser? You or her?