Your Turn: “I Want to Ban His Gay BFF from our Home”

In a feature I call “Your Turn,” in which you, the readers, get to answer the question, I’m presenting the following letter without commentary from me:

My boyfriend, “Victor,” and I met in high school through mutual friends and have been together almost 4 years. Victor and his friend “Harry” are now 23 and have known each other since they were about 7. Victor has not had a ton of girlfriends or experience with girls and is slightly awkward, so when we started dating in college, everyone from our high school was surprised. Harry dated girls for the first part of high-school but then came out as gay in our senior year.

When Harry came out, a rumor got started that he and Victor had once watched gay porn together and then attempted to have anal sex, but gave up due to the discomfort. When we started dating, I asked Victor about it and he denied the rumor. I asked where it came from and he said it was just something one of his other friends started to be an ass. The problem is that every time he’s in town, Harry belittles my relationship with Victor and says that Victor is gay anyway.

Recently, Harry was rude to the point where I refuse to spend any time around him, which has caused an issue with him and Victor. Victor hasn’t completely cut him out of his life but is respecting my need to not have Harry around, for now. Harry will be back in town soon and I want to ban him from our house. Do you think banning him will negatively impact my relationship? Also, I feel like my boyfriend is lying to me about experimenting with boys. I don’t care if he has, but I hate being lied to. What should I do? — Lost in Rumorville


  1. MellaJade says:

    ‘Banning’ someone from a home you share with your boyfriend will always cause trouble. If you’ve expressed to your BF that his friend makes you uncomfortable then he should respect you enough not to bring him home. If he wants to meet with the buddy, they can meet outside the home, no?

  2. bittergaymark says:

    Okay, that’s an odd rumor for somebody to start. But then homophobic guys are assholes, how can a straight guy be friends with a known fag if he also isn’t secretly gay… Or so that “logic” can go. Frankly, your letter is really too vague for me to offer much insight. Exactly what does Harry say? How often does he say it? It could all be just passive aggressive ribbing/wishful thinking on Harry’s part to be sure… However, the fact that Victor has so little experience with girls is…um…interesting.

    So, how IS your sex life? Huge black hole you said nothing about which is alone quite telling. I mean, i would think that if it was stellar this would have been mentioned.

    Sure Harry sounds like an asshole, but that said — are you REALLY just blaming the messenger here? Maybe there IS some truth to the rumor after all — that said, anal sex is NOT usually the very first thing gay guys experiment with… That’s kind of varsity gay meaning usually the first time is much more junior varsity stuff such as a lot of touchy feelie mixed in with a bit of oral…

    Look, if Victor truly IS conflicted about his sexuality than you might as well welcome Harry into your home and into Victor’s bed to ferret out this mystery. Why? Because if there is one thing I’ve learned is that 99% of guys in the closet who wants to sleep with dudes WILL eventually come out… (Oh, and PS — the remaining five percent simply fuck every guy they can on the side while the clueless wife sits at home making feeble excuses for their lack of sex…) So better to have him leave you now than in ten to fifteen years when you have kids to deal with and you’ve REALLY wasted the best years of your life…

    1. ReginaRey says:

      I’m glad you shared your insights. Personally, one of the big red flags here is that this rumor about her boyfriend even existed in the first place. I feel like if you’re truly a straight guy, rumors about anal sex don’t tend to circulate about you. She said that past experimenting wouldn’t necessarily bother her, but clearly it does! She’s trying to ban his gay friend from their home…and I think her own unease about her boyfriend’s sexuality probably has a lot to do with it.

      1. bittergaymark says:

        On, the flip side, the rumour is so extreme and over the top, it totally COULD be made up by some asshole homophobe. Personally, I’d give the rumor much more weight if it was something like Victor drunkenly let Harry blow him and then would up returning the favor… That is a much more plausible experimentation rumor than the big leap right to the big leagues…

      2. Theenemyofmyenemyisagrilledcheesesandwich says:

        Yeah… I’m more inclined to believe that this is a homophobic rumor. When I was in high-school, my best friend Beth and I were routinely called lesbian… because we hugged each-other. We both had boyfriends when this happened, and are now both in long-term relationships with men. It’s high-school, people are dipshits.

        It’s also pretty common (at least it was at my high-school) for the sexual identity of FRIENDS (all friends, ALL) of kids who have come out during high-school to be questioned, regardless of reality. Since high-school wasn’t that long ago for the LW, I also wonder if she’s not falling a bit into this trap.

        If you’ve been with a man for FOUR YEARS, what does it matter IF he has ever experimented with boys if you are confident in his attraction to you? I understand the tension of having someone question your relationship, but if all Harry has on you is a douche-bag rumor that he and Victor watched a porn together, he doesn’t have much.

      3. I just want to say that I think lesbian rumors are generally less of a big deal because homophobia towards gay men is often so much stronger. Lesbian rumors seem almost common to me, but gay rumors don’t just pop out of thin air.

        My two cents, almost certainly tainted by life experience and going to an all-girls high school.

      4. GillianCate says:

        My husband–who has, admittedly, kissed dudes in the past–was rumored to have had sex with a guy at the local drive-in theatre when he was in high school.

        It never happened. He was away for a track meet the night this allegedly occurred. The rumor was started because my husband was scrawny and not terribly popular, and a large portion of his classmates were/are very homophobic (small redneck town).

        Rumors like this certainly happen with no grounds whatsoever, but in the LW’s case, there’s so much information missing, that I have no strong feeling whatsoever that this event did or didn’t happen. Regardless of what did or didn’t occur, Harry seems like he’s a negative influence on their relationship.

      5. I disagree with this, “if you’re truly a straight guy, rumors about anal sex don’t tend to circulate about you.”

        That said, if the LW doesn’t trust him, I don’t really know what else to say. You can’t have a good relationship with someone you don’t trust & it doesn’t make sense to try & control the social life of someone you trust.

      6. bittergaymark says:

        Yeah, this is especially true in Hollywood. A lot of wishful sinking… Rumors are often just rumors…

      7. theattack says:

        Rumors about straight guys doing gay things circulate all the time. That’s how homophobic guys put other people down.

        Also, you said “She said that past experimenting wouldn’t necessarily bother her, but clearly it does!”
        We really can’t know if this bothers her. If he had experimented with someone he no longer talks to and had told her about it, she might be fine with it. As it is now, he’s hanging out with someone that he may have a sexual history with, and the LW isn’t sure about his honesty here. This is a relationship flag regardless of whether it’s same sex or not.

      8. That’s what I think, too, theattack. I don’t think it’s the experimentation that bothers her, but the fact that the alleged partner is still hanging around… coupled with the fact that he’s obviously jealous. I mean, if Harry were another woman, no one would think it was weird at all that this situation bothers LW.

    2. Shadowflash1522 says:

      I guess I’m just curious, and since none of my gay friends are available right now to answer me I’ll post it here.

      Does anyone else find the details of the rumor a little weird? I mean, I’m a heterosexual female and I have no idea what the typical anal sex try vs. success ratio is, but the whole “they tried to have sex and failed” part is just…unnecessary. If I were a nasty homophobic rumormonger, I would have said that they had sex and left it at that. It’s succinct, devastating, and leaves no doubt about what a godforsaken fag he is (spoken in character, not an actual opinion). If anything, their lack of “success” kind of undermines the rumor, doesn’t it? I guess it could be a clever ploy, but most rumor-starters don’t have that much imagination. As you suggested BGM, it could just be so over the top that it’s true…but then the only person who would know that little detail is our not-so-BFF Harry.

      Other thoughts?

      1. How Rumors Get Started:

        harry is gay – did you hear harry is gay? – victor is gay? – harry is gay – victor is gay – harry & victor are dating – victor’s not gay, harry is gay! – victor & harry were dating, but since victor won’t come out, harry broke up with him – victor is gay? – victor & harry are just friends – victor is gay but he won’t come out – harry & victor were dating? – harry & victor were not dating, but they have hooked up – harry & victor got caught hooking up by victor’s mom & that’s who told everyone harry is gay – victor is gay? – harry & victor had sex & victor is the one who told everyone that harry is gay – victor is not gay – harry & victor just experimented together – victor is gay too – harry just came onto victor, but they didn’t actually have sex – harry & victor tried to have sex, but it hurt too much

      2. Jess of says:

        My take was that it’s a double-insult from the homophobes by saying that:
        1. He’s gay
        2. He’s a failure sexually.

      3. I’m betting the “tried to have sex but failed” line was not part of the original rumor but got tacked on as it circulated, maybe in an attempt to defend Victor that got warped through repetition.

    3. Jess of says:

      For me the most telling part of the letter is the last line when she says that she “feels like her boyfriend is lying” about his sexual past with “boys.”

      1. bittergaymark says:

        The other part about the rumor that could use a bit of clarification is um, who was trying to fuck who? If, uh, Harry was trying to bang Victor and was the “top” then this rumor is really getting more interesting. And more loaded. I agree though, the details about almost having sex makes it more credible in some respects…

      2. I agree, the fact that it was an “almost” makes me doubt the bf’s assertion that “oh, it was just a rumor made up by a couple of assholes!” I know there’s not enough info in the letter to really say for sure, but my first thought about this situation is that Harry is just rolling his eyes at what seems like a sham-relationship. Like… “why are you with this woman when you’re gay?” I don’t think he’s being petty & jealous so much as that he wants his friend to stop pretending.

  3. Ok, you basically asked two questions:
    1) Can I ban Harry from the house without damaging my relationship?
    2) Should I hound my boyfriend or snoop until I have proof that he’s experimented with boys?

    To answer #1, if you live with your boyfriend (which I am assuming you are), I think you can tell him that you do not feel COMFORTABLE having Harry in your house. I wouldn’t ban him because that doesn’t let your boyfriend be part of the decision. If your bf decides to be an ass and says he doesn’t see why Harry can’t come over, make sure to leave whenever Harry is coming over and make sure your boyfriend knows you are leaving because you are uncomfortable, not just because of a well-timed haircut appointment. If Harry only rarely is in town, this would probably be the least stress solution for your relationship.

    Now onto #2, you really only have two options: drop it or keep poking at it until it destroys everything. Now, if you 100% trust your boyfriend and you believe that it’s all in the past (if anything happened at all), you won’t have any problem with the advice I gave above because you won’t secretly believe your boyfriend is gay and cheating on you with Harry in your own house. But, from the tone of your letter, I don’t think you trust your bf 100%. You’re like a guy asking, “What’s wrong?” and not believing his gf when she says nothing until she explodes at him for being annoyed. If you want to try to get things out in a healthy way because you refuse to believe him, maybe consider couples counseling. It seems you have some trust issues and I don’t see how it could hurt you both if you discusses these issues with a professional.

    1. Christina says:

      drop it or keep poking at in until it destroys everything…..well put.

  4. I think you shouldn’t be so concerned with what may or may not have happened between Victor and Harry. It’s in the past and if your boyfriend comes to a point in his life where he wants to share this with you (if it actually happened), he will. I think you have a valid point of concern when you say Harry “belittles your relationship”. I think you should confront Harry about how you feel and make a stand. Banning him from your house is avoiding the problem, not solving it. Tell him something along the lines of “I don’t care about what Victor may have done in high school, I’m his present and I want to be treated with respect”. I’m not sure whether asking your boyfriend to get involved would hurt or help your cause. On the one hand, he should be concerned about what his friends have to say about you, but I would try to not put him in the middle of this, if that’s even possible.

  5. Sounds like you are from a small town? If so – you know how these things work… everybody dies famous in a small town. You can’t change what people will think or say. You can change whether or not you care what they think or say. That’s pretty hard in a small community – particularly in your young 20s. I would recommend working really hard to not care about this or other gossip – it will fuel the fire far less if you don’t care what people say. You will be much happier with your relationship too. Also – as hard as it is in a small community – I’ve found I tend to stay out of the gossip circle much more often if I’m not contributing to it. And – it makes others gossip seem much more petty – so it doesn’t bother me as much when I’m the one that is the center of the chit chat.

    And as for whether your boyfriend is lying to you about past experiences – my advice is going to be controversial – but here it is anyway: Let it go. It’s creating drama in your life about something that happened years ago before you were even involved in this relationship. Perhaps he’s telling the truth, perhaps he’s not, perhaps he doesn’t want to add fuel to a bunch of gossiping hens in your town, perhaps he just wants whatever that experience was to remain private, whatever it is… Just let it lie. And as far as banning Harry from your house – you sure shouldn’t have to put up with someone that is rude to you or disrespectful of your relationship in your own home. I’d just caution against too much drama in the establishing of this boundary – it seems the rumors and gossip are upsetting you – if you create a scene – you’ll just add more fuel to the fire.

  6. EpicMalarkey says:

    Oh man. Sometimes I read these letters and think “I can’t wait to read what Wendy thinks” and then I see its a Your Turn and I get a little disappointed. ANYWAYS.

    I think you need to have a serious talk with your boyfriend. You say you’ve been together for four years, so this seems to be a serious enough relationship to warrant a “big feelings” talk. Tell him how you feel about his friend Harry. Don’t say things like “He’s such a jerk and I hate him. He does this and that…” because this can really put your guy, Victor, on the defensive. You need to calmly explain that Harry’s behavior towards your relationship makes you feel disrespected and hurt. You get so upset about it, that it’s ruining the trust you have with your boyfriend. Explain to him that when Harry is belittling your relationship, he’s being a shitty friend to Victor. Because he is. Who in their right mind would want a “close friend” belittle their relationship and keep spreading crappy rumors? This so-called friend sounds entirely toxic. Harry is making you unhappy and uncomfortable. He won’t let that stupid rumor die. Make Victor realize that this is his problem too and he needs to reevaluate his friendship with Harry.

    Now that I keep thinking about this Harry character, I’m actually getting pissed. Eff this guy Harry. He sounds like a total jerk. I don’t care if he is gay and therefore is the total authority on stupid high school gay drama. I don’t even care if he did screw around with your boyfriend. If Harry was a girl, it would be easy to see that he/she is acting like some bitter, jilted crush.

    Your best bet is if you can get Victor to see what a juice box Harry is and have him tell Harry to piss off. Feel free to frolic into the sunset and make out after you do.

    1. Love this. Thumbs up x 1000.

    2. bittergaymark says:

      Nice that all gays are supposedly so versed in “stupid high school gay drama” — whatever the fuck that means. I guess I can assume all women are experts at being homophobic judgmental harpies, oh wait, huh? Not so many likes to that last thought, eh? But sweeping generalization about gays get an immediate 15 likes… Sad…

      1. EpicMalarkey says:

        well it wasn’t my intention to sound have that sentence sound so sweeping and mean. I guess what I really meant was that….I feel like this Harry character acts like since he is gay, he therefore would know if Victor would be gay and has merit for spreading the rumor. Either way he’s just being oddly rude.

        I’m sorry if i caused hurt feelings on that one since it wasn’t my intention. But that’s ok. Kudos for using the word harpy, bonus vocab word for the day.

      2. bittergaymark says:

        Actually, I had a really crappy day so my mood in not the best.

        That said, I don’t think Harry assumes Victor is gay because he has excellent gayday or something… No. Instead, the actions (or lack of actions) by Victor here make me pretty darn sure that Harry is a loose cannon who is more than fed up with being constantly led on…

  7. honeybeenicki says:

    It is generally not a good idea to ban your SO’s friend from your house/their life/etc. It never really turns out well. I agree with other commenters that you should make it clear about how uncomfortable you are around him and hopefully he gets the idea and meets up with him outside of the house.

    I am curious to know what it is that the friend actually says to you. There is so much missing from this letter and we all could probably give better advice if we knew the whole story.

    As for wondering about whether or not your boyfriend experimented with this friend (or any other male for that matter), I’d say just let it go. If it is in the past, it is in the past. If there is any truth to this rumor, sure he shouldn’t lie but it is still in the past. I don’t know why its a big deal if guys experiment but not a big deal if girls do (Ok, I do know how people actually view the whole issue there, but come on). However, if there is a question of his sexuality, that is something he needs to deal with before it causes even more hurt (you know, after marriage and kids and years together). It is a difficult thing to deal with and will probably be hard on both of you, but I am a firm believer in being true to yourself. For all we know, he is gay but the rumors and I’m sure other comments that were made during the same time may have scared him enough that he’s trying to fit his life into a little heterosexual box.

  8. wendyblueeyes says:

    Oh honey, it’s so easy to sort out this mess. Tell BF that his friend Harry is rude, and you don’t have to put up with it. Tell him that he can have his friend over, but you will have some errands to run when Harry arrives. This way your BF knows you are leaving in advance. Put a nannycam in the bedroom and living room, plug it in and leave for your errands. When you play it all back later, all your questions will be answered. What will Harry and BF do when left alone? What does Harry say to BF about you when you aren’t there? Does your BF come to your defense? Is Harry jealous of you? Nannycam will reveal all.

    1. Sounds like a new reality show…

      1. It’s definitely something that would air after “Bachelor Pad”.

    2. Jess of says:

      This is like so awful but also kind of genius.

      1. You know, if you have to put a nanny cam in a room to spy on your BF and his BFF, then your relationship has more problems than a random rumor and a rude friend with whom you clash. All you have to do is simply make yourself scarce when the BFF comes around, and accept your BF’s explanation that the rumor was just that…an ugly rumor.

        You can also tell your BF why you’re going to be scarce when his BFF comes over to visit…that you don’t get along with him, and he’s been rude to you. You two will probably never get along, but your BF should tell his BFF to treat you with respect and courtesy when he’s visiting. If your BFF is truly friends with your BF, he’ll do his best to honor that request.

        If the three of you can’t make that happen, you might as get out the nanny cam and start snooping, because the relationship is over.

      2. Oh and I forgot…LW should be doing her best to treat the BFF with courtesy and respect when he’s visiting her BF, too. This will help prevent the clashes and personality conflicts that seem to keep cropping up, and it’s always beneficial to take the high road in situations like this.

  9. Christina says:

    Is Harry passive/aggressive-ly dissing your relationship or saying it to other people or is he saying things directly to you to upset you? If he is just being snipey then ask him directly if there is a problem here between you. I’ve done this with people who just chilled out immediately when I mentioned I sensed a problem. None have ever admitted a problem or gotten loud. They just push you while you put up with it. If he sees you are a strong willed person maybe he will stop or like usually happens, you are likely to become friendly.
    He may be a little jealous that his bff has a live-in girlfriend he’ll have to share his attentions with.

  10. Shadowflash1522 says:

    I will answer your questions separately, as others have done, since they are mostly unrelated:

    1. I think ‘banning’ anything affects relationships negatively on principle because it’s a dictatorial thing to do. Banning things — your BF’s female friends, dogs (because you hate them, not because of allergies), gay potential ex-lover BFFs — is going to make your BF feel like an unruly semi-permanent houseguest rather than an equal partner in your living arrangements. Unless it really *is* your house (as in, you own it yourself) in which case he IS an unruly houseguest overstepping his bounds. But I’m going to continue assuming that your living arrangement is a joint thing. Anyway, banning things like certain friends or peeling oranges is a sure way to make him feel like he has no control and no say in this relationship, and nobody likes a dictator.

    2. What should you do…about his potential experimentation? Ideally, nothing. He’ll tell you on his own time if there’s even anything to tell. I’ll probably end up speculating about the rumor itself, but the conclusion will still be the same. However, you’ve already opened the “lying” can of worms — you said it yourself. Now that you’ve entertained the possibility that he’s lying to you, you can’t stop thinking about it. The funny thing about that is that once you go there, you won’t be able to stop until you find *something* that validates you. The less there is to find, the harder you’ll search, until you destroy the relationship from within. Been. There. Not a fun place. So you have two choices: Suck it up and have a little faith, or dump him now and spare everyone the long spiral of suspicion.

    Now to dissect the rumor: The part that really stood out to me is that they stopped short. If I were a malicious rumormonger, I would have left it at “they watched gay porn together and had anal sex”; the whole stopping because of discomfort thing is a little detail that most rumormongers don’t have the imagination to include. Especially because there’s no way to prove that juicy detail — it’s not like with hetero sex where you have to account for pregnancy (or lack thereof) — and it actually sort of undermines the point of the rumor, that Victor and Harry are/were gay lovers. The other thing is this: how would you know? How would some unknown third party conclude that they didn’t go all the way, let alone their reasons for stopping? The only people who could possibly know that for sure are Victor and Harry. Harry, for his part, seems to be doing a marvelous job playing the jealous gay wannabe-lover who was rejected back in Victor’s experimentation days. Especially his protestations that Victor is gay, in spite of his relationship with you, smacks to me of wishful thinking. So I would say (based on the sketchy info I have) that something *did* happen, but Victor decided that he’s straight and Harry is bitter about it. Regardless, though, you are sticking your nose where it does not belong. See above.

      1. bittergaymark says:

        Um, I’m sorry but your logic on number 2 is pretty naive if not stupid… “He’ll tell you on his own time if there’s even anything to tell.” Um, really? Yeah. She should just sit back and wait… HELLO!? Do you know how many husbands come out to their wives after years if not decades? To bury her head in the sand here is asking to become a future member of Straight Spouses Anonymous…That’s right, this possibility of this happening is so strong that there is a support group for those dealing with it, a national support group whose members number in the thousands…

      2. Just because someone experiments in gay sex does not mean they are gay. Some of the straightest men I know have had gay sex, usually with close friends. It’s called experimentation for a reason.

        I’m not saying that he is definitely not gay (I’ve never met him, my gaydar doesn’t work very well online), but there is a large chance that he is not, and that he is just uncomfortable talking about supposed experimentation because of the issue she has with his friendship with Harry. He may not want to fuel a fire, and he may be unsure how she would actually take the news that he did experiment (assuming he did).

      3. bittergaymark says:

        Yeah, sure, Victor may not be gay. But they NEED to talk about this… Because there is simply too much going on here NOT to talk about it. If Harry is just a raving psycho, I simply don’t see what Victor gains by keeping him around. This behavior alone is VERY suspicious. Hey, if Harry was cooler about things and they both calmly told her, yeah, hah, we messed around once (or even a couple of times) but it just wasn’t all that great for Victor…then I would have no suspicions that Victor is hiding something…

      4. AndreaMarie says:

        I’m sorry but no man who engages in anal sex with another man is the straightest man anyone knows…

      5. bittergaymark says:

        Hah, I almost said this myself but you beat me to it… 🙂

    1. I don’t think she’s sticking her nose where it doesn’t belong when the gay experiment partner is still chasing her bf! It would be totally different if he and Harry weren’t still close, or if Harry didn’t take the jealous I-totally-want-him-back-and-I’ll-totally-go-for-it-if-I-can angle.

  11. Calliopedork says:

    Oh crap, sorry everyone. I was trying not to ramble but I ended up being overly vague. Harry(the friend) is the one who started the rumor and he credits the whole anal experiment with helping him come out. My boyfriend has always been kind of conflictphobic so he denied it but never made a big deal over the rumor. Harry has called me a controlling bitch, a fat cunt, and said that my boyfriend is just using me as a stepping stone on the way to gay bliss. He has also repeated the rumor in a room full of people(including my uncle) at my last birthday party. He makes sure to do this when my bf goes to the bathroom orleaves the room. My bf has talked to him and he always apologizes but as soon as he is in town and drinking does it again. I feel like if he were a girl banning him would be no problem but because he is male and my bf is not gay im expected to get over it. Also our sex life is normal and perfectly enjoyable and I dont think my bf is gay. Hopefully this helps. Thanks everyone

    1. You just confirmed what I suspected reading the letter, that Harry started the rumor about your BF’s attempt at anal sex with him. It sounds like Harry was/is carrying a torch for your BF and is still bitter that his buddy didn’t turn out to be gay too. There’s not much you can do about that, beyond avoiding Harry until he gets beyond the whole “bitter scored lover” bit–if he ever does. As far as banning Harry from your house, I agree with the other comments saying that would be too dictatorial. Just tell your BF that you are sick of Harry’s disrepectful comments, and that you do not want to see him when he comes to town. Ask that you BF let you know if he plans to bring Harry home so that you can arrange to be elsewhere, or that he get together with Harry someplace outside your home. I think that would get the point across without making you look overly controlling.

    2. Wow, Harry sounds like an ass. Has he said these insults to your face? Or is this another comment he makes when you’re out of the room? If these are things he’s saying behind your back, then call him out about it. He sounds like a little bitch and would probably back pedal the hell away from a confrontation, as it appears he has done when your boyfriend’s talked to him. Be nice, but firm. “I don’t appreciate you saying these things about me, and neither does my boyfriend, who is supposed to be your friend. Please respect our relationship as we respect any relationship you may have.”

    3. Shadowflash1522 says:

      I still stand by what I said before. ‘Banning’ is dictatorial, but refusal to ban on your BF’s part is also dictatorial. You have a joint living situation, so you need to talk it out and make a joint decision about how you are going to deal with Harry. And you need to either let the experimentation thing go or MOA, because there is nothing Victor can say to you that will make you feel better.

      And if it were a girl, I would say the same thing.

    4. “fat cunt” makes me giggle – don’t really know why. that is an absurd thing to ever allow to escape your lips, even in the throws of a jealous rage. i would feel crazy just having that phrase clang against my mental/verbal filter. sorry about that, but at least he’s acting like a nut-job – it would be worse in my opinion to have a perfectly calm, rational person interfering in your relationship : )

    5. Jess of says:

      This does change the way I read your original letter. I hope BGM will chime in here with his thoughts. I am really not sure what to say except that I agree with others that banning a friend will not work.

      My BF has a female friend who I dislike and who interfered in our relationship at times. I developed a personal policy for dealing with her and its very effective.

      Rule 1: I get to set my own boundaries with her but not his. Meaning that I get to say how she treats ME but I don’t get to interfere with how she treats HIM. If she speaks rudely to me, I politely object. If she insults him, I ignore it. His friendship, his choice.

      Rule 2: I don’t stop him from seeing her. I’d object if this got out of hand but they have dinner every other week or so and that’s not cutting in on my time. Much as I might not understand the friendship, I respect it.

      Rule 3: While she and I will never be buddies, I vow to always be polite and friendly with her no matter at every occasion. I will never make her feel uncomfortable in our home or when we’re at events. I am careful not to put my BF in the middle unless its absolutely necessary.

      I don’t know if those tips will work for you. Just know its a work in progress –things don’t get better overnight. But sometimes being more permission with someone is exactly the thing to diffuse tension. And meantime, you can empower your boyfriend better by example than you will by fighting his battles.

      1. Landygirl says:

        I always wonder why people feel the need to keep such a negative person in their lives knowing that this person is treating their mate poorly. It makes me question their judgement.

      2. Exactly. What’s ‘interfering’? I’d find it so annoying if it were my friend.

      3. bittergaymark says:

        Chiming in. Okay, as much of an ass as Harry is made out to be here, I still think it was/is VERY telling that your BF is so non-confrontational about this rumor is because he knows it IS true. If it was all a lie, he would just write Harry off… Instead, VIctor keeps Harry around. Why? It would seem that Victor must like Harry…for some reason.

        Hey, I have lots and lots of straight friends. Many of them hot, and many of them I am VERY attracted to… That said none of them have ever tried to fuck me. Not a one. I know, I know, it’s almost tragic… My point is, if I were the LW, I would stop blaming everything on Harry and take a serious looks at her boyfriend. I mean, it just begs to question, if Harry is a demented as you make him out to be — then why the hell is Victor keeping him around. And don’t give me the line that poor Victor is afraid of confrontation… Because that is total b.s.

      4. She did say they’ve known each other since they were about 7 years old. So assuming the rumors started when they were, oh, 17 or so, that’s at least ten years of friendship BEFORE the homo-drama started. That could be a factor in Victor not wanting to cut off ties with Harry.

        Beyond acting like he’s bitter, Harry seems like the kind of person who likes being the center of attention and starting shit just to start shit – a drama llama. The fact that he persists with this allegation against his friend and is particularly vicious about it says he doesn’t really care who he might be hurting. In his mind, it’s all about HIM. He might even be trying to score some pity for having been rejected, making Victor the bad guy. Regardless, he is actively trying to sabotage Victor and Victor’s relationship, and pointing this out to Victor might be the wake-up call that his friend is being shitty and it has to be handled, not ignored.

        One my hubby’s best friends and I do not get along very well. Not that we have any conflict between us, but we just don’t have much in common and don’t see eye-to-eye on almost anything. This makes it really tedious to hang out with him, so when he comes to town, I make other plans. I’ll be friendly with him when we do cross paths, but I limit that time. I let him and my Hubby have their time together and feel no need to be included. Perfect time for a girls’ night out, or to sequester myself in my office and work on some projects, or go visit my parents for the evening, etc. (Yes, I’d rather hang out with my parents than this guy! LOL.) Hubby initially resisted and wanted us all to be friends, but he now accepts the compromise and gives me a heads-up when his friend will be in town. I suggest you try to do the same, LW, to keep the peace and keep yourself sane.

    6. Many (not all) of the gay men I know are pretty catty, but this is beyond that. If anything, it sounds like jealousy, or being over protective. And not necessarily from romantic feelings.

      Think of it this way: how ’bout a close female friend, who has no romantic feelings for her male friend, but is jealous of his significant other, because she doesn’t feel as close to him since he got in a relationship, and wants to sabotage that. There are platonic friends who react this way to their best friends entering into relationships. They used to be two peas in a pod, no one closer than than her to him, and suddenly, someone new is in the picture, who is, naturally, closer, just because of the nature of the relationship.

      I’m not saying for sure he didn’t experiment (it happens, even with straight guys), and it could be true that Harry has feelings for Victor, but even if he doesn’t, it could be a matter of him missing what he used to share with him. I find this a more common occurrence with girls, but it’s not out of the question with men.

      You might ask Victor what he thinks the situation is. He knows his friend better than you do, and he might have some insight on why he is acting this way. If he thinks it is a platonic issue, then you might ask him to have a talk with Harry, and say something along the lines of “I know I have a girlfriend now, and she’s a very important part of my life, but you are still a close friend. And as a close friend, I really wish you were supportive of my relationship, because this is a girl I really care about.”

      And if it’s not a platonic issue, he should still have a talk with Harry.

      As for the ‘experimentation’ issue, I wouldn’t push it too much, until the situation with Harry is better, simply because it may put more of a strain on your relationship than is necessary. If it comes up naturally, go ahead and ask, but if not, save that discussion for a day when you two are more comfortable and he is less on guard about his relationship with Harry. If he is lying about it, a lot of it may be to protect himself from what he sees as hostility on their friendship. I know you said you wouldn’t have a problem if it did happen, and that’s great, but a lot of girls would, and that may be why your boyfriend is hesitant to say anything about it.

    7. Okay… if one of my boyfriend’s friends called me a “fat cunt” in any manner of seriousness, that friend WOULD be banned from my home or that boyfriend would no longer be my boyfriend.

      Your boyfriend should not allow any of his friends to disrespect you that badly.

      1. This.

    8. Conflictphobic!? The problem is no longer Harry – it’s the fact that Victor continues to allow Harry to disrespect you at all turns! You deserve better. If he doesn’t start standing up for you, you seriously need to DTMFA. I had a boyfriend do that to me once and believe me, he did NOT let it happen again. I was very clear with him that it was not acceptable for him to stand by and let me get disrespected. Be clear with him that this passiveness is not acceptable and that if he values your relationship he will not allow you to be disrespected in public again.

      1. parton_doll says:

        I agree. Gay rumors aside … her boyfriend would rather allow this situation to continue than to set up the appropriate boundaries out of respect for his girlfriend. Take a step back LW and assess what your boyfriend’s passiveness is really saying about him as a person and determine how that may translate into other aspects of your relationship. Harry may not be the problem … he may be a sympton (albeit a HUGE symptom) of a larger problem.

  12. I would request that Victor and Harry hang out alone and not at group functions. Harry also sounds like a really shitty friend if that experimentation really didn’t happen….and if it did happen….he still sounds like a really shitty friend.

    1. bittergaymark says:

      Unless he and Victor are STILL sleeping together because Victor is a huge liar… Look, if Harry IS lying…really? What’s the point? Now if Victor is the one who is lying…then Harry has a lot to gain (potentially) and a real reason to drive the LW away… As selfish his motives would be here, he would actually be doing her a HUGE favor…

  13. If Harry did start the rumor, I’m wondering why on earth your boyfriend stayed friends with this guy! If one of my friends started a nasty rumor about me in high school, the friendship would have ended right there. But back to your question- Flat out tell your bf that you don’t like being around Harry and that you will make alternate plans for when he’s visiting, and follow through on it. You don’t need to be around that.

    1. Landygirl says:

      Thank you.

      1. AndreaMarie says:

        OMG amen!!! Why would your BF choose to stay friends with someone who would make uo such an insane “rumor” like that?

  14. Wait. HARRY says Victor is gay? This is just not vague rumour and general disrespect of your relationship if Harry is the one saying your boyfriend is gay. The other person in the gay rumour about your boyfriend is calling him gay! Um. If it isn’t true then why are they still friends? If my friend was telling lies about me that were hurtful to me or my partner then they wouldn’t be my friend anymore. I think your boyfriend may be due for a frank talk with both you and Harry. I don’t know a straight man alive that wouldn’t have shut that down from jump the second a friend called them gay in all seriousness. But to answer your questions – ask your boyfriend why the friendship is so important to him that he would want Harry over even though he has been disrespectful to you both by perpetuating the rumours. And I disagree with the other opinions – if he wants to visit with Harry do it elsewhere. That is your home and you should not have to flee it to avoid disrespect from any “guest”.

    1. Skyblossom says:

      I have to wonder why they’re still friends too. At a very minimum, I expect my friends to treat me with dignity and respect or they aren’t my friends. That is my most basic line that’s nonnegotiable in a friendship. I don’t think any friendship can last when there isn’t mutual respect. I suspect Victor is hanging in there out of duty due to the long friendship from a young age but this is no longer friendship. We all draw the boundaries for what is acceptable in our lives and I think it’s time for Victor to set a strong, nonnegotiable boundary. He can tell Harry what he finds unacceptable and if Harry crosses the line don’t see him again that visit. If Harry continues to cross the line each visit then he’s out for good.

      1. Calliopedork says:

        They are still friends because they always have been. They also have the same mutual friends.who take it as a joke and think im being girly and sensitive. They are all bros over hoes which is dumb because dude is.acting like.a jealous meddling hoe. Oh well I still have 4 months before he moves back home

      2. You might ask for a better answer than that. I’ve known you from small doesn’t measure up against you are disrespecting my girlfriend, telling lies about me, belittling my relationship, calling her names and damaging my reputation, etc.

      3. bittergaymark says:

        Harry is MOVING back home? Wow. Um, okay. Seriously…you need to ask yourself what the heck you three are all doing here… Because it’s a mess. Victor is playing you both and rather than blaming him — both you and Harry are lashing out of one another instead. So, what’s the deal? Is Victor like super hot or what?

      4. vizslalvr says:

        Have you given any thought to the fact that all of your boyfriend’s friends are assholes? Why is that? Is he that much of a pushover so as to completely lack a spine? Is he truly unable to speak up for himself or his girlfriend? Or is it that he, too, is kind of an asshole who permits his friends to put “bros before hoes,” and treat him and his relationship with a complete lack of respect?

        I don’t get it. Yeah, Harry is a dick. But your boyfriend puts up with it. If you can’t deal with that, consider finding a boyfriend who has a pair of balls and can stand up for himself and choose friends who aren’t moronic frat boys and/or passive aggressive liars.

      5. Okay read the clarification from LW– wow. At “best”, the boyfriend can’t even stick up for his girlfriend when his friend verbally disparages her. At worst (? …I can’t even tell which is necessarily the worse situation) her boyfriend is still fooling around with Harry. The latter makes more sense to me, & I would recommend the LW look into it instead of waiting for the day Harry moves back home.

  15. Banning someone from your home is drastic. It should be reserved for the most heinous of crimes. Douche-baggery isn’t exactly a crime. Something tells me that the gay friend is jealous of the relationship you have with your boyfriend, and wishes that your boyfriend really was gay.
    Do I think your boyfriend is gay? No. He may have experimented, but I doubt anal sex was on the table. That rumor was more than likely started by some homophobic asshole. You need to toss that rumor aside and give it no more thought.

    Time to figure out why the other guy doesn’t like you. Because that’s what this boils down to, a fundamental dislike between YOU TWO. And you are putting your mutual guy in between and he’s going to eventually have to choose if you two don’t stop. Is it a personality clash? A jealousy issue on his part? An insecurity issue on yours? Go out like a couple of “girls” and discuss. You two have one thing in common – a desire to see your boyfriend HAPPY. Work off of that.

    1. “Douche-baggery isn’t exactly a crime.”

      But how awesome would it be if it was?

      1. iseeshiny says:

        Anybody watch New Girl? They have a thing where whenever the “bro” character acts like a douchebag, he has to put a dollar in the douchebag jar. Off topic, but I just think Zooey Deschanel is soooo cute!

  16. Eagle Eye says:

    Well, to put this in perspective – my bf is not a huge of some of my friends and there are some of his friends that I’ve never really warmed to – nothing nearly as blatant as whats going on in the LW’s situation, but they still rub me the wrong way nonetheless. So, my bf and I have a deal – I hang out with my friends outside of the house, at their house and I make up some excuse about how he’s too busy working or whatever and he does the same thing with his friends.

    The underlining rule behind all of it is that the offending personages don’t come into the house – although that is also up for discussion if the situation arises – and for the record – its always a discussion never a decree.

    In either case, just make Victor hang out with Harry without you, have Victor make up some excuse about why you couldn’t be there and go about your day. You’re not the first couple to have done this!

  17. fast eddie says:

    Ultimatums seldom come out in favor of the issuer. If you ban Harry from your home will defiantly adversely affect your relationship with Victor. It’s a bad idea period. A better alternative is to seek an agreement that Harry’s rudeness will not be tolerated, nor will anyone be exempt from civil behavior yourself included. That would make Victor included in the resolution instead of a bystander being forced to chose between his friend and you.

  18. I see an interesting double-standard here: the LW wants to be able to interfere in the relationship between BF and BFF, but complains about BFF interfering in the relationship between her and BF. I think the answer lies in the Golden Rule: treat people the way you want to be treated. As that rule applies to BFF, someone she dislikes, it might be hard to keep her chin up while doing it. It ought to be easy to treat her BF in the spirit of the rule, and that’s where the honor and love come from.

    My limited experience is that friends like BFF will eventually do something that will alienate BF to the point where BF chooses to cut ties. The LW’s challenge (as a person of love, trust and compassion) is to let that natural progression occur without getting into it. That does NOT mean that she has to swallow her tongue when something bothers her, and as long as she’s accountable for her own feelings (I feel disrespected) and draws her own boundaries (I will not socialize with BFF) I predict she’ll be able to look herself in the mirror every morning…regardless of other peoples’ choices.

    And on the rumor mill, I say “sticks and stones.” Strip away the gender issues and it becomes *at worst* a failed experiment with a sore loser who is acting badly. Failed experiments are an embarrassing but important way to learn about life, and sore losers are only looking for a way to salvage a win from the situation. Don’t let him win.

    1. I agree with you. My current SO has a friend that decided he didn’t like me because my SO was the first one to settle down of the trio of “best buds”. My SO and 3rd son share the same birthday (New Year’s Day), so I decided to do a birthday party for both that year. Family and friends for both of them. My brother was grilling outside, while I was in the kitchen making 15lbs of beer battered halibut.
      This guy was shooting his mouth off the whole time about me to anyone and everyone. He had no idea who he was talking to in most cases. Thought my brother was a guy that my SO met while in the Coast Guard and started telling him stories and things that he’d heard from my SO’s mother. By the end of the night, nobody was speaking to the guy. A week later, my own SO cut ties with him for being such an ass. I didn’t have to do anything. I was polite when needed, but noncommital the rest of the time.

  19. Ok, here’s my question. LW, would you think your boyfriend is gay or has experimented with boys if this rumor had never existed? Does he do things in bed that lead you believe he would like to experiment/has experimented with boys? Aka, does he prefer anal sex over traditional intercourse? Does he ever want to watch gay porn? Asked repeatedly to invite a guy into threesomes? If you have no other suspicions about your boyfriend’s sexuality other than this rumor than I would let it go. And no I don’t think you should ban Harry from your house, but I think if you speak up about it combined with the fact that your boyfriend has seen his poor behavior, your boyfriend will agree that it’s best he not come over.

    1. bittergaymark says:

      Um, very few deeply closets gay guys would EVER be so obvious to do any of those things… Seriously… To assume all is well because your guy doesn’t watch gay porn, constantly want mmf threeways, or routinely demand anal sex isn’t exactly the best advice… At least not here.

      WARNING! PROBABLE OVERSHARE! Okay, here’s the real deal. The one or two married guys I’ve been with (long stories) would probably never ask for anal sex from their wives… Why? Simply because their wives weren’t equipped to to offer them what they wanted. In other words, the married guys wanted me to take charge and ravage them. NOT the other way around…

      1. I only stated it from friends I have whose boyfriend’s came out of the closet after them dating. Different strokes for different folks.

      2. bittergaymark says:

        Wow… Crazy. What was their excuse for watching gay porn?

    2. I am not equipped to really know what the “signs” are… but I would say from my uneducated guess, if their sex life is just lacking in general… that would be the main thing to worry about.

      1. Skyblossom says:

        My aunt’s first husband turned out to be gay (this was the 1960s.) She said it was like living with her brother and they ended up divorced after a few years. So I would think that in general a gay man would be less interested in sex with a woman than a straight man would be. I know that as a straight woman, not even slightly bisexual, I don’t get even a touch aroused at the thought of climbing into bed with another woman. I don’t see why a gay man would be aroused over a woman.

        I have never understood the argument that gay marriage will hurt straight marriage. If gays are expected to marry straight women then I assume that would only push the divorce rate higher whereas if they marry other men then they have, I’m guessing here, the same odds as everyone else.

  20. Sue Jones says:

    Don’t ban Harry, just don’t be around when he is there. My husband has a friend who comes over sometimes that I do not care for much. He isn’t an asshole or bad news, just really needy and high maintenance. I just do other things like read a book in our room, go to bed, etc. Not a big deal. I think by now you would know if something were off in your sexual relationship. Let high school stay in high school, and don’t keep bringing it into your adult life…

  21. MOA, he is gay

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