“Can I Dump My Pregnant Friend?”
The problem is, in the past year, Karen has become someone I don’t feel like I know anymore. She used to be a confident, sarcastic girl with a great since of humor. She used to talk about going to law school and working in politics. Since making these new friends she has changed her sense of fashion and her hobbies, and become extremely disrespectful to her parents, who have always doted on her. Not only that, but through her new group of friends she began “dating” this man who flat out told her at the beginning of their relationship that he didn’t want anything serious with her.
Despite expressing to me that she didn’t want to be someone’s “hook up,” she began sleeping with this man and spending a lot of her time with him, despite how badly she told me he was treating her. (Ex: While out spending time with her he would check out other girls and buy them drinks, and he made her cry on several occasions, including on her birthday. Apparently at one time they had an “arrangement” that he could do whatever he wanted as long as he promised not to “flaunt it in her face.”)
Every time I hung out with her we would spend the entire time talking about how bad he made her feel about herself, how disrespectfully he treated her, and how she knew she could do better. I always encouraged her to stop seeing him, but she never did. After months of this I finally asked her to stop complaining to me about how awful he was if she was going to continue to put up with his bad behavior.
Out of the blue recently she called me to tell me she is pregnant with this man’s baby and is now living with him and they are “making it work.” We went to lunch after she told me, and during the conversation she admitted to me that her parents had cut her off and kicked her out of the house when they found out she was pregnant, so she had no choice but to move in with this man. She also told me that she didn’t believe he would be with her if she weren’t pregnant, all while insisting she didn’t get pregnant on purpose.
Her behavior was already taking a toll on our friendship and this pregnancy and faux-happily-ever-after is just the icing on the cake. I feel so conflicted because Karen is my oldest friend and we used to have such good times together. I don’t want to be the type of friend who ditches people when the going gets rough. She sent me an invitation to her baby shower yesterday and I wanted to ask her to just leave me alone. Should I tell her I don’t want to be friends anymore or should I just try to be happy for her and be supportive during this time, knowing the drama will probably not end any time soon? — Over My Childhood Friend
It’s totally natural for friendships to change over the course of many years and for people who were friends as young children to drift apart as their adult lives take them in different directions. The mistake people make, though, is in trying to force intimacy that is no longer there or remaining “friends” out of a sense of obligation. For a friendship to be mutually satisfying, there needs to be authenticity, and if either party isn’t feeling it anymore, a wall of resentment will quickly build up, which takes us to the biggest mistake of all: dumping a friend for no better reason than you simply aren’t feeling it anymore.
That’s where you are now. From what you’ve written, it doesn’t sound like Karen has done anything to directly hurt you or betray you. She hasn’t behaved in a way that would warrant a cold breakup. At worst, she’s made some poor personal decisions. But what it really sounds like here is that you two simply don’t have very much in common anymore and you don’t enjoy her company. Do you have to have been betrayed to end a friendship with someone? No, of course not. But I do think there’s a fine line between dumping a friend and simply letting the friendship fade out.
If you tell Karen you no longer want to be her friend, that’s dumping her. If you slowly stop returning her calls and making plans with her — which it sounds like you’ve already done — that’s letting the friendship fade out. If you tell Karen you won’t be coming to her baby shower because you think her pregnancy is a huge mistake and you no longer want her in your life, that’s dumping her. If you make a quick, one-hour appearance at her shower, and then let another six months pass before seeing her again, that’s letting the friendship fade out.
The truth is, Karen is going to be so busy once that baby comes, she’s not going to have time for the kind of friendship you’ve had in the past anyway. It will be very, very easy to let your conflicting schedules be the excuse you need to stay away. And unless you have a reason to cut her out of your life dramatically — like, she’s asking to crash at your place or asking to borrow money or depending on you in a way you no longer feel comfortable with — and you want to make a deliberate point that you aren’t her friend anymore and cannot help her, it’s kind of cruel to dump her.
The fade-out may take a little longer, but the advantage is you can still remember each other fondly and you don’t cast a shadow over the long history you share. You may feel nostalgic some day and actually enjoy catching up with her over a coffee or bite to eat. Why burn a bridge — especially one that leads to happy childhood memories — if you don’t really need to?
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
WWS. there are times where a “i cannot be friends with you anymore because of X” is appropriate, but it just seems to complicated and drama-filled for this situation. just fade out.
WWS.
Frankly it sounds like Karen has done a bit of the fade out on her own anyway.
LW, you’re a nice person. From your letter you sound like you’re very caring and conflicted over this Karen situation, but this friendship has run its course… for now. Who knows, maybe in the future, Karen will come back to her sense and become the person she use to be, but you need to let it go for now.
I had a friend that I made my freshman year of college. She was witty, fun, sarcastic, basically awesome overall. Then after about 2-3 years, something happened. She became moody, depressed, difficult, always negative. No more fun to be around. My other friends told me that she even had a secret competition with me because I’m “smarter and prettier than her”. After we graduated, it just got worse. She would just complain about her work and school and life all the time – even though it was great! I did the slow fade out, emailed back and forth once in a while, met up once a year or so. And everytime I’d talk to her I’d just leave feeling so drained and upset that I would make a resolution to no longer be her friend. Time passed, I’d forget, we’d chat again.. etc.
I recently saw her over thanksgiving (I was in town and had no one to hang out with and caved in) and she’s back to her old self. She seems happy, confident and maybe for the first time ever – a more positive outlook on life than I had! I don’t know what happened, but I felt like I was back to freshman year of college. I can’t wait to see her again!
The point of my novella is that things happen, people change, for the worst, for the better and sometimes back and forth. It’s not worth to burn bridges because you don’t know what’s going to happen. Sometimes people need to be beat up by life for a few years to really understand their own worth and I think that friendships are like relationships, sometimes it’s not right, sometimes it’s perfect, sometimes its on and off (and thats okay) and sometimes you need to spend some time apart before you can grow together.
Wendy’s right…it sounds like you guys are just leading two different lives & have been slowly growing apart for some time now, anyway. Make an appearance at the baby shower, bite your tongue, & let your friend pretend to be happy. You don’t need to put on a show of being supportive & happy FOR her (hint: she’ll know you’re faking), but it’s also unnecessary to “tell her [you] don’t want to be friends anymore”.
It’s frustrating to watch friends make repetitively poor personal decisions, but really…what “drama” do you have to deal with? It’s pretty much all her problem right now–sounds like she’s not really confiding in you at this point. So listen to the advice Wendy gave, & just continue fading out.
LW, friendships go in cycles. Sometimes you are closer and sometimes more distant. To be honest, when she has this baby, she will have much less time. The text messages will slow way down. I would not make this a dramatic thing when it doesn’t have to be.
Also, I don’t think this is a faux happy. You said she was lonely and loved this guy. They are now having a baby and moved in together. Whether down the road this turns into a train wreck is still to be determined. She is about to bring a baby into the world that she will love and will fill that whole in her life and has a man willing to try to make it work. Just because you see the writing on the wall doesn’t mean right now, in this moment, she isn’t happy in the belief that she has everything she ever wanted. So let her be happy for now no matter how long it lasts.
I’m with Wendy on this one. Times infinity.
I know, some people hate personal antecdotes, but here it goes . . . .
My BFF “Jane” and I were super close from 9th grade through sophmore year of college. My mom treated her like a daughter and she was part of our family.
Anyway, like your friend, LW, she was outgoing and funny and smart. She wanted to go places and do things. But she also had a shitty boyfriend and I could slowly start to see my friend fade away. She lost weight she didn’t need to. She didn’t smile as much. She was no longer outgoing. She opted to go to college in town instead of a prestegious school, which was paid for, because she feared leaving her boyfriend. She was sad all the time.
While in college I wrote her a letter telling her I missed my friend and that she was becoming a shell of herself but had so much potential. She didn’t like that one bit. We stopped talking after that letter.
Fast forward a few years later. Unbeknownst by me, she was still talking to my mom and sis’s. And she broke up with her loser boyfriend because she finally had proof he continuously cheated on her. Jane asked my mom if she thought I would talk to her again. My mom said all she could do is try. She did. And we picked up where we left off. We were that good of friends. And we’re still BFF’s. More like sisters.
I visit her and her family every summer. On one of the visits, she told me she still had that letter and reads it from time to time because it reminds her of how far she went and what it took to return. We know each other so well and I will always fight for her happiness. And I know she’ll do the same for me. She had done the same for me.
So, LW, as Wendy said, if you need a break from your friend for a while, take it. But don’t completely write her off. One day, you might need her again.
I can’t get past the fact that this friend is presumably 23 or 24 years old, was still living at home, unemployed, and is now pregnant. WHY DON’T PEOPLE USE BIRTH CONTROL!?!?!?! FFS.
Also, listen to Wendy, let it fade out.
I’m torn. It would be nice if everyone could just recognize a friendship has run it’s course and sign on to the fade out plan…but a lot of the people you try and fade out are clueless and they keep calling and even if you screen 5 out of every 6 calls they still end up taking up your time…and by taking up I mean wasting. I had a friend that kept telling me the SAME story with every guy she dated – getting increasingly bitter and jealous and resentful. Even with the lessened contact it was exhausting sitting there listening to her increasing sense of entitlement and her refusal to take responsibility for her life. It was all too negative all the time …and it took someone from me to listen to all of it. It is not ALWAYS the guys’ fault for the love of all things holy.
Sometimes you just need to rip off the band-aid. Sure confrontation is not great but one conversation and it’s over. I know people hold on to ‘old’ friends like a badge of honour but unless those people are actually your friends – that you like and respect and enjoy – then all you are doing to keeping people in your life you have known a long time that you have nothing in common with. And isn’t that what Facebook is for? I guess it depends on your schedule if you have time to devote to people that don’t enrich your life at all but I know for me I have friends I love and I would rather spend my free time with them rather than with someone I no longer like, respect or enjoy just because I happen to have known them from time.
The confrontation discussion doesn’t have to be about telling her about herself either – I would vote that it shouldn’t be actually. It can be as simple as – sorry all of this is too overwhelming for me. I’m going to need to take a step back from our friendship but I wish you well. Take care.
WWS! Reading this I was thinking, yes this friend just needs the slow fade out approach. I’ve found that after graduating college my friendships all changed. In high school and college it seems like your friendships are some of the most important relationships in your life. I know my best girlfriends lives were so interconnected with mine bc we spent a great deal of time together. As a result, we were very emotionally invested in each others love lives and choices. Out in the real world, as we got jobs, settled down in serious relationships, got married, etc, that emotional involvement changed with our priorities. It seems to me that even though you don’t spend much time with this friend and don’t really want to be her friend anymore, you’re still very wrapped up in her life emotionally. You know, it sounds like she’s making bad choices and has been for a while and that can be very frustrating- especially when you know where she came from, how she was raised and how different her values and morals are now. But you have to mourn the loss of who your friend used to be and move on from the frustration. You can’t make her live the life you want her to. She has to learn from her own mistakes. As tempting as it would be to give her a stern lecture of how she’s throwing her life away and your friendship along with it, the compassionate thing to do is the “fade out”.
Part of being an adult is making mistakes and learning from them. Seeing as how she’s in for a very hard road regardless, if you care about her, there’s no need for a grand “friendship dumping” ceremony just to make yourself feel better. To want to do that is normal, to actually do it would be immature and sanctimonious. There will come a point in your life, probably sooner than later, where you’ve realized you’ve made some poor choices. Trust me, you’ll appreciate the friends who spare you lectures and “I told you so’s” and just love you instead.
This is sad. I’m sorry, LW! I agree that your friendship probably needs to fade out, although I know you’d feel like it would be a relief to just tell her you’re done.
I have a friend who followed nearly the exact pattern you describe in Karen, and I had no patience for it. I took huge steps back, and I haven’t talked to her much in maybe two years. But I’ve missed her recently, for some reason, and I’ve reached out to her again to let her know I was thinking of her, and we had a nice chat. I believe we’ll soon get together for coffee. And I’m glad to have the option to do that. It seems like we’re in a more similar place now, and I’m glad I didn’t burn a bridge.
Best of luck to you!
Am I the only one who thought this lw sounds very judgmental?
Brilliant advice by Wendy.
And nice to have the fade out option. Unfortunately, I have this character in my life too but she is family. My sister makes terrible life choices, takes advantage of my parents, had had at least 2 unplanned pregnancies (not counting scares or additional ones I suspect), blows money she doesn’t have, fails to consider anyone else, and on and on. Since I cannot fade out on her, I use what the family calls the “friendly indifference” program (Iike Alanon’s “detach with love”). You don’t cut the person off, but you don’t get very involved either. You give the exact amount that you would feel comfortable giving if you knew you would get nothing in return –because nothing is almost always what you get. It’s hard to maintain because there is ALWAYS need and you’re always thinking how you’d give more to anyone else in the same situation. But by detaching, you let the resentment boil off and you can enjoy the person as-is.
Personally I think you are being a douche. One of your oldest friends changed someof her hobbies and wardrobe after college? The horror. You don’t like the way she interacts with her parents, that’s fine but it seems like she doesn’t confide in you much and I would say her parents kicking her out shows that there is more to their relationship than you know. Now she is making a dum mistake with her live life and has gotten herself in a big mess, and your first idea is to get all self righteous and friend dump her? That’s not what i would do but whatever. If you need to fade out fine, but save the judgement for someone who has actually done something to you.
LW I have kind of been where you are. Earlier this year I dumped a friend, with the breaking point being her pregnancy, but i think there were some differences. She was majorly nuts, changed BF every year, changed herself to mesh with the BF, had been dating the new guy for 3 months when they decided to have a baby “because everyone had babies”. Finally sick of her crap I tried the fade out, but she kept bugging and bugging me, until I had to dump her. At which point I became “a nazi thats going to die alone”. AH I forgot to mention, her grand plan for the baby was to live in her parents garage with the baby and the BF until they could save to build a house on his mothers property. He had a lowpaying job, ahe did freelance work but was supported by her parents. And they´re in their 30s.
My point is, even though this person didnt really do anything to ME (except for drive me crazy with her need for constant drama), I had to cut her out of my life for my own sanity, and I couldn´t bear to be an accomplice to her BS anymore. I think only you can decide if you really can´t stand for your friend to be in your life anymore, and then maybe try the fadeout, but keep in mind that it might not work.
I was in a situation like this. Circumstances a lil different, but still…. anyway, I agree with Wendy. Fade it out. Sometimes you just need to have your own space because you have taken a different path than your friend.. she does not seem to have done something horrible to you, and you do not know if things will be different later on. She might look you up a couple of years from now and ask you to go for a drink and take it from there, but for the time being, go to the baby shower for a lil while and then keep to yourself. Time might be the factor in change here.
While I agree that the slow fade out is less dramatic and avoids burning bridges, it bothers me.
I had a close friend who have used that on me and, looking back, I have no idea what happened! So once I realized that the friendship was dead, I mourned the loss of something that I didn’t realize was dying but it was too late to make any changes. I have no idea why this person that once seemed to really love me no longer can take the time of day to call me back, email me back, or, hell, even write something on my FB wall. It ends up making me wonder if I did something that no one has the guts to tell me that I did! I’d like some closure (and feedback so I don’t make whatever mistakes again) but I didn’t get any of that in this fade-out. And it doesn’t really make sense to ask what happened when she can’t be bothered to respond to a FB message.
Of course, I’m also in the process of a mutual fade-out with another friend and the reasons for THAT one are perfectly clear on both sides. Neither one of us is going to go “gee, what happened here?”
On that note, this LW has clearly told Karen what was going on. Karen does know (or should know) what happened to the friendship so the fade-out isn’t as painful as it could be.
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned the “R” word yet.
Respect.
It’s pretty clear that the LW has lost all respect for Karen. Call it judgemental, but friend or not, it’s hard not to lose respect for someone who degrades themselves this way, because they’re so afraid to live without a man.
Yes, we’ve all made bad choices, I make ’em on an hourly basis some days. But this relationship is one ridiculously long bad choice. Karen knows the guy is bad for her. She knows he’s using her. She knows he doesn’t respect her. She knows he treats her like garbage. She knows he makes her miserable. And not only does she continue allowing him to use her, but she gets pregnant and moves in with him so they can ‘make it work’. Sheesh, she sounds like the follow-up LW from yesterday.
It’s not that the LW hasn’t tried. She’s listened, she’s given advice when asked, she’s talked through the situation with Karen for hours and hours on end. At what point do you throw up your hands and say enough? It’s hard to watch someone grovel for some asshat’s affection, over and over again, over a long period of time. Really, really hard.
As someone whose friends have watched her make bad decisions, I’m happy that they stuck around to see me come out better and stronger on the other side.
Fade out, and move on… but leave the door open. Friendships change a lot during young adulthood. But you don’t need to make a drama out of it. Here is what I think will happen… Fast forward 5 years or so… Karen has the baby, leaves the loser boyfriend, goes to law school, gets some therapy and by the time she is 30 her life is back on track again. Leave the door open for something like that to happen. While you don’t have to be around to listen to every blow by blow of the impending drama, many people screw up their 20’s only to come roaring back later. Pull back for now and hopefully something like that can happen. I did a lot of things in my 20’s and did not see a lot of old friends during that time ( I was living on the opposite coast was part of the reason) but reconnected when my life was a little more stable and it has been very good for me. No reason to drop her like a hot potato unless she steals from you, betrays you, etc.
Before I read Wendy’s response or any comments:
I have been/am in pretty much this exact situation. It’s damn hard watching somebody you love hurt themselves through other people time and time again. But it’s not your damn responsibility to get them to stop. Once you’ve let that go then it is really tedious and annoying to listen to them complain about their situation when you see the easy fix. It can be really easy to say “this friendship isn’t fun anymore, I’m out.” But for me, that’s not what a friend is, that is what an acquaintance is. With my friends I stick with them and help them out when it isn’t fun, when it hurts, when they NEED it. Because eventually my friend left that crappy guy and now she’s a single mom which is just as hard but less drama. But I was there for her when she needed me. I was there to cheerlead her to take night classes. I was there to take her out for dinner when she needed a treat and couldn’t afford it. I was there to listen to her complain about her child’s father. I take pride in how far she has come. And holy shit I need some coffee now.
My point being- sure, you can leave your oldest friend in the dust because she’s on hard times. But life isn’t always going to go smoothly for you and then who will you fall on?
The other year, my best friend watched me turn into a person I never wanted to be. In our years of friendship, the only fight we have ever gotten in was when I had gone into a stage of depression (didn’t want to talk about it), made very poor personal decisions, and lashed out at those closest to me. She couldn’t understand what was going on with me and why I was behaving the way I was. She legitimately couldn’t stand to be around me at one point because I was such an ugly person. But she stuck by me. Our friendship certainly faded, but she was still there.
Anyway, I pulled myself out of my depression, and my best friend was still there. It took some time and a sincere apology, but we are closer than ever now. She’s my best friend for life, and without a doubt, like a sister to me. I am so blessed that she chose to stick by me and that she’s my best friend.
It’s OK to fade out on this friendship, but straight up dumping her when she hasn’t necessarily done anything TO you? Just think about it. Maybe she’s having a really rough time, and surely if you were in her shoes, you would want someone to stick by you too.
WWS for the most part. In my experience, I’ve only had one reason to ever directly dump a friend rather than fade out. And that was when a person was alienating not just me but ALL of her close friendships and so I thought she at least deserved to know why everyone was supposedly disappearing from her life. Other than that it’s kind of mean to tell a friend directly “just leave me alone”.
Fade out. But NOT too slow or you’ll be stuck endlessly babysitting that little darling or constantly fielding desperate phones calls about her dreary relationship drama…
Personally, I don’t think it’s necessary to “dump” a friend ever, unless they are treating you really badly or have actively resisted a fadeout. Finding someone annoying is not a good reason, and though you seem like a nice person, if you tell her to “leave you alone” simply for inviting you to her shower, then that would be really rude and unnecessary, especially since she, as you seem to acknowledge, already has a lot of issues by being with this man.
Ok, I have a general comment and it’s based on an earlier discussion from this letter.
What is the point of “dumping” a friend? It sounds super dramatic and very high school. And why do you need to tell someone they suck so you are cutting them out of your life? Unless, of course, that friend has done something to seriously hurt you. Fade outs are super easy. People come and go at different points in your life all the time. When you fade, you keep a door slightly open.
Pick the fade out!
I recently completed a long-term fade out. I have a friend who, for a certain period in my life, I had a lot of fun being completely immature with. She was my fun friend. As the years progressed, it became obvious that I was growing up and she was still stuck at 16. It became sort of embarrassing to be with her in public (and I feel douchey for saying that, but, you have no idea). I still would never want to hurt her feelings. So, I simply stopped making plans with her. I think she officially realizes we are no longer friends, after a few years of minimal contact on my end. But, she has nothing she can really point to and be angry at me for. I didn’t “break up” with her and make her sad… there was no reason for that. Maybe someday, she will get her life in order and we can be friendly again.
My fiance, on the other hand, fully “broke up” with a high school friend of his. From the stories I hear, the kid sort of deserved it. But, my fiance (YEARS later) regrets hurting him. It must be a big blow to the self-esteem to have someone you considered a good friend tell you that they simply don’t like you anymore.
I just don’t think the LW’s friend needs to hear all the ways she went wrong in life. I am sure she knows (even if she won’t admit it). Don’t hurt her feelings. Just do the exact fade-out Wendy suggests.
Wow. Given how hard some recent LWs have gotten it for relying on their parents’ generation to support them financially, it’s a little shocking to see how judgemental people regard you in spite of doing your own adulting. Being judgemental is part of being an adult: you are judging that emotional involvement with this person is something you can no longer manage. You mention that you grew up with a father who treated your mother badly (whether or not you directly witnessed it) and you absolutely have the right to protect yourself from waking up whatever that might evoke in you. When I was 18, my godmother told me some people make their own good luck, which I thought was harsh. 30+ years later, I see what she means. Your friend keeps touching the stove to see if it’s hot and you are backing away from dressing her burns. I swore I would never get with a physically abusive partner, as that was part of my childhood wallpaper, and I didn’t: I got with an emotionally abusive partner (back in the 90s when that wasn’t even a thing 😉), but it’s not being judgmental to say you will seek to avoid that outcome! I wouldn’t expect someone in their 20s to keep schtum when a friend is messing up and keeps venting about it. I wish more of us oldies were telling young people it’s okay to put up with less crap, not more.