“My Girlfriend Refuses to Move in With Me”
With all of that being said, you should understand why I’d be devastated to lose her. She recently received a scholarship for a great graduate program in the city near where I live and plans to move here since she’s tired of commuting for school and work. The apartment hunting was getting frustrating for her and I thought it’d be great timing to ask her to move in with me. She said it’s a nice thought but immediately shot it down because I never want to get married and that’s probably a deal-breaker for her. She said she never brought it up because when I’d mentioned my feelings on marriage before, it was in passing and very early in the relationship when it didn’t matter. Since she’s only 22, marriage isn’t in her near future and she didn’t think it was something that needed to be talked about anytime soon and wanted to “play it by ear” and “do what she needs to do” if/when the time comes and we still don’t agree.
My parents didn’t have the greatest marriage and I haven’t seen a marriage that has made me want it for myself. Not to mention the divorce rates tend to be higher for those in law enforcement. I’m not totally opposed to the idea of marriage so I tried to compromise and said we can get married if we’re still together when I’m 40 but she laughed and said she refuses to be someone’s “why-the-hell-not wife.” I’ve never been with anyone whom I’d even consider spending the rest of my life with so saying that was a big deal for me. She never wants to talk about it and when we do she laughs it off and says nothing is ever guaranteed and we should focus on being happy now. Last night, we had a huge argument and she accused me of not being realistic enough and selfish for trying to pressure her to give up on something so important to her when she’s not pressuring me at all. I haven’t heard from her since (which isn’t like her) so, yes, I am in panic mode.
What do I do? She’s the love of my life and the thought of losing her scares me. We’re damn near perfect besides this issue but I don’t want to wait around to see if she will leave me. I would love to come home to her every day and start a family with her but I don’t think we need a piece of paper to do that. Am I pressuring her? Should I just go with the flow like she wants or is this relationship doomed? — In Love But Anti-Marriage
Short answer: yes, you are pressuring her and yes, you need to just “go with the flow” if you don’t want to scare off your girlfriend. You’ve asked her to move in with you and she shot you down (immediately, I might add). When you discuss marriage or your future together, she laughs it off. She has flat-out told you that you are pressuring her. What else do you need to hear? BACK OFF.
I get that she is the love of your life and you don’t want to lose her, but, come on, she’s 22. She was basically still a kid when you started dating two years ago. And now she’s about to move to the city and start a “great graduate program.” She’s on the cusp of real adulthood while you’ve already been there for at least a decade. Give her some space. If she wanted to move forward with you now, she’d already be addressing what could likely be a deal-breaker for her, but since she’s not ready to, essentially, make a deal, it doesn’t matter. The fact that she doesn’t seem ready to discuss your thoughts — or even her thoughts — on marriage in great detail and the fact that she immediately shot down your invitation to move in with her despite the frustrations of apartment-hunting means SHE IS NOT READY TO MOVE FORWARD. She wants to keep things as they are, which is great since it sounds like you’re both pretty happy.
In the meantime, you need to give some thoughts to marriage. If you aren’t opposed to life-long commitment and having a family with someone, what difference does a piece of paper make? What is it about “making it legal” that scares you? Do you believe you can be truly committed to someone without a marriage license? And if so, what is it that you believe a marriage license changes in a relationship? Do you think it’s possible that it could change a relationship for the better? Or only for the worse?
It’s not necessarily a bad thing to be anti-marriage, but it could eventually spell the end of your relationship with your girlfriend if she’s unwilling to move forward with someone who says he doesn’t want to be married. If that’s a deal-breaker for her, then you’re basically screwed. So, I say figure out why not getting married is such a big deal to you and decide whether it’s a bigger deal than your girlfriend is. You have time to think this over. Remember: she doesn’t want to be pressured. And, as she said, she isn’t pressuring you. But the day may come when she will start pressuring you — when she’ll want to know whether you ever plan to marry her (and not just in a vague, “Eh, maybe when I’m 40” kind of way, but in a, “Yes, let’s do this, I want you to be my wife now and forever!” kind of way). Trust me, things will go a lot more smoothly if you have a definitive answer for her by then.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
She seems like a very smart girl, and more people should actually be like her, and not jump into things they aren’t ready for just because somebody is trying to pressure them into it. She’s a keeper for somebody who is looking for the samethings as her.
She does sound very intelligent and self assured. I also get the impression she doesn’t want to move in with him, marriage talk or not. She’s not as in love as he is.
Yeah LW, your girl actually sounds like she has a good head on shoulders. And I agree with bagge— ~more~ people should be like her, & have that same self-possession to NOT leap through the steps of commitment, just because someone who cares about them asks.
She’s young. She’ll be in school. She should get to experience that, instead of playing house with you, hoping you’ll change your mind about marriage. She is making the right decision for herself, for your relationship, & yes, you are pressuring her (like Wendy said, she explicitly TOLD you that you’re pressuring her—time to back off.)
I don’t doubt you love her, but try to see things more from her perspective? rather than flounder in confusion at why she isn’t moving in with you, even after you made the difficult-for-you declaration that you’d *consider* marriage at 40? Maybe by then you WILL want to get married, & maybe by then she’ll be so settled in her life & career to ALSO want to marry you (like you said, if you’re still together), but right now, it IS best to hold off on living together.
And look on the bright side; she’ll be in your city, if not living in your domicile…
She said she’s not interested in a commitment. MOA And that’s derived under the DearWendy “when they tell you no, believe them” theorem. Sorry
The age difference means that you are at a strong disadvantage in this deal as the window to get “married have kids” is narrowing quicker for you than for her. She might be ready or decide she’s not interested when it’s going to be very late for you.
It sounds like what you want is her deal breaker for her. That sounds like a tall hill to climb.
I don’t really think he is at a disadvantage since he really isn’t looking for the whole marriage thing anyways, he pretty much has all the time in the world to wait around for her so why try to move it quicker than it needs to go. She is smart to play it safe knowing that she has plenty of time to find somebody else, and get married if things don’t workout with them, and she is smart to not trap herself in a situation where she could be living with this guy for 6 years not knowing how to let go, because he might want to get married at 40.
The “get married have kids” window isn’t as narrow for men as it is for women. Men can produce children for most of their lives, so I disagree that he is at a disadvantage for that reason. If for any reason, it’s that she has more of her life ahead of her and thus more time to decide who she is and what she wa Ts.
I guess I have a hard time understanding how you could say she’s the love of your life, the thought of losing her scares you, and you want to come home to her every day and have a family with her — but you’re willing to risk all of that because you’re threatened by a piece of paper.
As Wendy said: “If you aren’t opposed to life-long commitment and having a family with someone, what difference does a piece of paper make?”
I wish I could like this a million times.
The funny thing is if you do not get married but are in a committed relationship that may include children you need all sorts of pieces of paper. Directives to allow your partner to make decisions for you in a medical emergency. A will is far more important as unmarried partners aren’t considered if you die intestate.
Can I give the girl in this situation props? She has clearly stated what she wants and isn’t jumping into moving in with the guy hoping for more.
While it sucks for the LW at least there are no guessing games as to what she wants in the future and it is up to you to decide if you can give that or rip the band aid off now.
This was actually a great letter for me to read. (Sorry LW, I’m threadjacking.) This could almost be a description of my relationship. My boyfriend is anti-marriage for many of the same reasons as the LW (except for having a bad example in his parents — his parents’ marriage is very strong, but what gives him qualms is that his dad gave up his major passion in life, football, to get married). My boyfriend is pro-lifetime-commitment but gets huffy about “why do you need a piece of paper to make it real?” And I decided, much like the LW’s girlfriend, that I’m not feeling the marriage bug strongly at this time in my life and I’m really thoroughly enjoying this relationship, so I’m going to ride it out a while and see where things go.
I guess, from my perspective, I’m grateful that my boyfriend has never pressured me to change my mind on marriage. We’ve kind of just tabled it for the time being to focus on the present. And because we have that major thing hanging over our heads (not in a dreadful way, but it’s there), we didn’t move in together even though we were both apartment hunting at the same time this summer. Because that’s a big step that you definitely shouldn’t take until you’re both on the same page about the future. And I don’t mind going slow in that respect. If your girlfriend doesn’t mind going slow either, then LET HER. You’re escalating things in a way that is totally unnecessary. You’re not a marriage guy, but instead of rushing her to the altar you’re trying to rush her to the Non-Paper-Oriented Lifetime Commitment. Don’t. Just don’t. If it’s not a good idea to rush people into marriage, it’s not a good idea to rush them into undefined lifetime partnership. Just give her space.
Yea, this is a great point- rushing and pressuring is never good, whether into legal marriage, living together, woodland commitment dance party, whatever- it’s not good.
I get the feeling OP is immature for his age (it’s not a good sign when your much younger girlfriend is the only one acting like an adult). Honestly, get over yourself. Any time I hear “I’m never going to get married because my parents had a bad one” I roll my eyes. It reminds me of those guys we all knew in HS/college who said “I know I’m not going to live until I’m 30” – I can’t believe how many times I heard some dumbass guy say that because he thought is made him sound tough and mysterious. I just get the same vibe from this OP. It’s fine not to want to get married because you are asexual or just prefer being alone – but if you are with someone who makes you happy, then you are only hurting yourself. Honestly, do her a favor and let her get on with her life if you have so many hangups.
It is not just a piece of paper! My husband, the minute I signed that paper became my NEXT OF KIN. Seriously, I was in a car accident on Saturday. He signed papers, he talked to doctors, he has been handling insurance, he has 100% control of what happens to me. HIM. Not my parents anymore. Do you really want a life where your girlfriend of 20 years and her parents are in a room and they go to THEM to ask about donating organs? NO! It should be YOU. YOU should have every legal right to her.
Good luck LW. Now is NOT the time though to change your mind and propose to your gf. Slow down and eventually allow her to pressure you on the subject.
Also, there were two things I really loved in this letter. I loved that the letter writer said “I’ve been a better man in every way since meeting her.” I would love it if a man said that about me.
But what I loved even more was that his girlfriend said she refuses to be someone’s “why-the-hell-not wife.”
I think I want to be friends with her.
34-year-olds who still blame their tendency to ask for cake to eat and to keep too on their parents’ crappy marriage. *facepalm*
Also if you really considered marriage just “a piece of paper” you’d have no trouble signing it for this girl you call “the love of my life”. It’s ok to not want marriage for yourself, but don’t go the “a piece of paper” route because it diminishes other people’s right to make it a big deal and that’s not kind, and it makes you sound a bit like a coward. what are you affraid of if it’s just a piece of paper?
I’m impressed at the girl’s social/relationship skills, I must say. I think she handled the situation in a brilliant way.
Gotta side with the girlfriend here. Moving in together is a big deal (at least it should be) and more people should take it this seriously. She’s got her head on straight.
I don’t understand being anti-marriage. I get thinking that’s its not a big deal or it is unnecessary or not wanting to get married if you aren’t 110% sure but I just don’t understand being so against it.
Also, it’s icky that you would list different races as the same size of dealbreaker/con than being 34 and 22 or living in different cities.
I agree with Wendy’s advice. However, on a related topic, I think the “if people think marriage is just a piece of paper and a formality, then why is either being married or not such a big deal?” point makes sense but doesn’t take some things into consideration.
That piece of paper DOES make a big difference. I said recently that it should be the other way around: much harder to get married than divorced. From my personal experience, I had the most civil divorce ever, but I still had to go through a lot of work, documentation, debates, etc. etc. to get through it (so far).
I can’t think of a good explanation. The closest I can come up with is that two things -a and b- being equal, if b is or can be more complicated than the other, why would you choose b instead of a? Does that make sense? I guess a somewhat applicable analogy is either renting or buying. Buying a house is an immense commitment. It binds you to so many responsibilities, legally and otherwise. And it is much harder to get out of an ownership than a lease. Renting doesn’t give you the long term investment or as much legal protection, but there are fewer legal and logistical issues to deal with in all aspects.
I’m not saying that people shouldn’t get married. Maybe one of these days I will get married again. I’m not saying if one partner wants to get married and the other doesn’t, that the one who does is being unreasonable. Every person has the right to want to get married or not and be with someone who wants the same.
For the LW, that piece of paper probably represents something else (most likely) he is not addressing, such as fear of rejection/abandonment. So I think Wendy’s advice is right on in that he should figure out what it is about being married that scares him. I don’t think Wendy thinks that “the piece of paper” is not a big deal, I’m saying that people on either side of this particular discussion should take some of the consequences of marriage – even in the strictly legal and logistical sense – into consideration when talking about the difference it makes in a relationship. (emotional and mental consequences are another topic althogether).
The main problem here is that you went into panic mode, LW. You found out that your gf had different ideas about relationship stages and marriage, and that she therefore didn’t want to follow your plan of moving in with you, and instead of considering this and thinking about it, you went into panic mode. This may have been a turn off for your gf, unfortunately. You should probably take a step back, apologize for pressuring her, and signal that you’re ready to leave things as they are for now, and do some soul searching about your thoughts on marriage.
My one biggest regret from getting married so young? I never got the opportunity to have my own place. I always lived in dorms, with roommates, or with Mr. Othy. At 22, she’s still trying to figure out adulthood, and it’s perfectly reasonable that she wants to live on her own. So let her!
i think some people are being really unfair to this LW. its fine for him to not want marriage. thats perfectly fine. he doesnt even have to have a “good enough” reason- if he doesnt want it, he doesnt want it. and its shitty to say some of the things that have been said about that.
now, for the LW, future advice: you need to be acclimated to the POA of a relationship- the price of admission. the price of admission for your relationship might be marriage. it might be the other way around, and your girlfriend’s POA might be giving up marriage. personally i think there is always a middle ground between “legal marriage” and “nothing”, and i think you guys should explore that. i think you personally should explore what exactly it is or isnt about marriage that you dont want, and become able to articulate that very well. you should also encourage her to do the same about marriage, so you two can ultimate start a good dialogue about the whole thing. i think that you guys should start communicating much better- and thats on both of you. her hearing that you arent a fan of marriage and just doing nothing about it is not good.
advice for the now, the RIGHT NOW: WWS. keep going on your relationship. your girlfriend has stated that she isnt worried about marriage right now and she doesnt want to move in with you. that is the POA of the right now. you dont get to move in with her. accept that or dont.
If you want to come home to her every night and have children with her, and she needs to be married to someone to do that with them, marry her. You say you’re not totally opposed to it, so why are you trying to bargain with the when-I’m-40 thing? (It really does sound like a “if neither of us are married by the time we’re 30 we’ll marry each other pact… I’m not surprised that it bugged her, particularly when she’s only 22 and has a lot of time to find a man who can’t WAIT to be her husband.)
But if you’re only trying to convince yourself you’re ok with it because you’re afraid to lose her, you’re better off dropping it and letting this relationship die its natural death.
I think this is a great example of two people who are in two completely different places in their lives. Quite honestly, 22 and 34 is a pretty big age gap. The LW is thinking about settling down with her and the girlfriend is in a place in her life where she doesn’t want to settle down and it sounds like she wants some independence.
LW, if you truly want to be with her for the long run, one of you is going to have to change your stance on marriage. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own view on marriage…but if she wants marriage and you don’t but neither of you is willing to compromise, you will have to MOA.
I stopped reading when he told her he didnt want to get married. everyone girl knows thats code for “HES JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU”. Smart girl, she wants her own place and will probably move on from that relationship. Shes still young, so she will most likely find someone else who wants the same things. NOT the OP.
“If you aren’t opposed to life-long commitment and having a family with someone, what difference does a piece of paper make?”
Yeah I just really don’t understand the extreme fear of a piece of paper. I get not caring either way or not needing one, but being afraid of it? When lifelong commitment doesn’t scare you? That’s not logical to me. The paper essentially exists to benefit couples who make a lifelong commitment. To me it’s like saying you’re not opposed to having kids, but you don’t want a birth certificate because you don’t need a “piece of paper”. Huh?
WWS about her not being ready. But in the meantime… I know this has already been addressed in the comments above. But I hate hate hate it when people describe marriage as a “piece of paper.” That’s like saying the Constitution is a “piece of paper”.. what a load of ignorant crap! Some reasons to the contrary:
Not only the legal reasons, but being married shifts how you feel about the person you’re married to. If this person is the right person for you, the knowledge that they are now your family is just the best thing ever, IMO. It also legitimizes the permanence of your relationship in the eyes of others, including your family. Whether that’s right or not it is true.
Coming from divorced parents (and rocky second marriages), I get that it’s hard to look upon marriage favorably when you don’t learn by a good example. It’s worth it to get past those feelings. Therapy helps. So does marrying the right person – trust your gut.
She sounds like someone I’d like to be friends with. So, there are a lot of big issues here. One, you guys want completely different things, and since it sounds like neither of you is willing to compromise (saying you’ll marry someone if you’re still with them in 10 years doesn’t count — and like, what the hell does that even mean? why would that suddenly make marriage palatable?), then I’m not sure how you can expect to settle down with her. “Settling down” isn’t about wearing down the other person until they give in to you.
Second, she’s 22. She doesn’t want to settle down and have babies with you yet. If you are at the point where you can’t go with the flow, then move on to someone who is ready to settle down. I get that the idea of losing her seems really bad, but the fact is, people have to make logical decisions about their love lives sometimes, no matter how much “love at first sight” and “love of their life” feelings they feel.
Finally, you’re going to have to decide if your dissatisfaction with the institution of marriage is worth losing someone over. Not necessarily this girlfriend, because I just can’t foresee you guys staying together long enough to where she will be ready to settle down, but just with anyone. I mean, my parents had a crappy marriage, but I never extrapolated that to the entire population. I am wary of it, and could see myself doing without it, but I know that what my parents did doesn’t dictate what I’ll do. And I’m not trying to judge that you don’t ilke marriage, but just consider whether the principle is worth the actual consequences.
Agree. Decide whether getting married is a bigger deal than your girlfriend.
I think the GF (very early based on his anti-marriage views) categorized him as being here for a good time, not a long time! She entered into the relationship with no long term intent because she enjoys his company and is young but she knows what she wants professionally and personally and their long term goals don’t align. She probably does not see him as husband material anymore and if studying psychology understands the importance of accepting people for who they are/setting realistic expectations in relationships. My guess is that she really wants to settle down with someone who would be proud and enthusiastic to call her his wife, someone who wants to provide the legal protections and recognition that marriage does so succinctly. It may also be a factor that his girlfriend doesn’t want to be relegated to being a “baby momma” or stereotype. OP indicated different cultural factors and GF may have feelings that his views may be because of those differences but that he is using other’s bad marriages as an excuse, rather than doing the work to unpack his roadblock/unenthusiasm. You do paperwork to start a business, take out a mortgage, commit 18 plus years to active parenting but getting government recognition and benefits for your life partner is too much for you? You wanting to lock her down in her prime with an unenthusiastic carrot for possible marriage 6 years from now is an insult to her intelligence. She knows she can do better and you should want more for someone you claim to love.
I think LW should back off. She will move to where you are, get her own place etc. I would see how things are for the next year or so. Then ,if all is great, consider proposing marriage. If she says yes, you can still wait and live together after you marry. If she says no, then you can both move along without too much time wasted for either of you. She is pretty young so give her time to figure out what she wants. Use that time to get clarity on what you really want too.
There have been more than a few letters to Wendy about this topic. It is usually the guy. all boo-hooing abouthow his great girlfriend wanted marriage and he could not/would make a decision. So, girlfriend breaks up, or moves out and he is suddenly all “ready”. Only to find it is too late. She has moved on or feels like if she had to do something so dramatic, drastic to change his mind, that he really did not appreciate her and what they had, so “just no” to all that.
You’re in different places in life. This is no surprise given the age difference. I think she’s just not that into you and pressuring her was the wrong move.
Let her live her life and MOA. Otherwise she will likely end up resenting you later for all the life experiences she missed out on because you weren’t willing to let her move at her own pace.
Also, date women in your own age range.