“He Wants to See Other Women. Can This Work?”
Then I entered the picture. I am the polar opposite of both wives. I am independent, have an excellent career, and am non-controlling, kind, open and supportive to him and his family. We are in love with each other, deeply, and he says this is the greatest love he has experienced. Our blissful new relationship energy has sustained for nearly nine months, and I do not want to be with anyone else.
The problem is that he has clearly stated that he does not want to be exclusive with me. He wants/needs to have other loves in his life, but that does not limit his feelings for me. He believes that his prior relationship unhappiness was partly because he did not like who he was when committed to only one person. He was faithful to his previous wives, but he now believes that his new-found happiness is due to his freedom to love without artificial/institutional restrictions. I think a big part of his current happiness is because he has found someone — me — to share time and love with who is actually a better fit for him.
I do not want to push him, and I have said that I do not want to know about others that he might be seeing. We have discussed safe sex practices, and I have expressed my need for emotional safety and that I require frequent reassurances about his love to me. I am still confused, though, about whether this will work for me in the long run. I was cheated on in my past two relationships, by partners who had agreed to monogamy. He is not cheating because we do not have such an agreement. He is non-jealous, and he has stated that he would be OK if I dated others.
My friends have urged me to not compromise on my values or needs, but I feel like this relationship works on many, if not most, levels. I do not know if my “head-in-the sand” approach is advisable, whether his love for me is “real,” whether I can stomach his loving other women at the same time as me. I am in therapy trying to figure out my best strategy, but I would appreciate your input. — Looking for the Real Deal
For some people, a relationship like this could work out perfectly. I could see, especially for older couples who don’t care to marry and/or raise kids because they’ve already “been there, done that,” that a relationship that’s loving but non-monogamous could provide the companionship and intimacy they want without the burden of commitment they’ve learned doesn’t work for them. The issue is both people in the relationship, obviously, have to be on the same page and when you describe your approach to this kind of arrangement as “head-in-the-sand,” it doesn’t sound like sharing the man you love is something you embrace.
It doesn’t even sound like you need therapy to figure out whether you can stomach the idea of your boyfriend loving and dating and being intimate with other women. What you may need help deciding is whether your ability to stomach something is the best measure for whether something is good and right and the best option for you. Even if you could stomach the idea of sharing your partner with other women, is that the relationship you really want? And if it isn’t, does compromising one thing you want — a monogamous relationship — for something else you want — your boyfriend — bring you happiness in the end?
If it doesn’t — if full relationship happiness is, for you, dependent on both who your partner is AND the kind of arrangement you have — don’t settle for less than what you want or you won’t be happy. It’s a pretty easy equation: Good man + monogamy = happy relationship (for you). An even easier equation is this: Good match = good relationship. If you don’t want the same things, then it isn’t a very good match, no matter how much you may like each other.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
If you have to ask the answer is likely “no”. And that’s ok. Personally I would never do an open relationship because I know it would make me anxious/insecure.
Also, I find it odd that he is telling you this after nine months together instead of right off the bat. LW if you are going along with this because you are holding out any hope that he will commit to just you then this open relationship is not right for you. There are plenty of men on match.com – I think you will find one who matches your wants/needs better than this man.
MOA. As Wendy perfectly said: “Good man + monogamy = happy relationship (for you).” And LW, I think it’s truly awful of you to judge this guy’s dead wife. You do not know what their relationship was like nor how he felt when she died, which was likely a myriad of emotions ranging from relief to utter despondence. A person does not care for their dying spouse if they don’t love them. In the future, mind your own damn business about other people’s relationships, past or present.
MMcG, that is exactly what I was thinking! “It’s almost like the LW has to believe this …”
I don’t think you can paper this over with “frequent assurances” of love from him. Assurances are cheap and cost him nothing, emotionally. Your assurance of undying love will be accompanied by the knowledge you try to hide in the back of your head that another, or several other, women are receiving the exact same assurances. There will always be the doubt that you are no longer the number one object of his affection. What you will have is basically a FWB situation with the addition of profuse and likely somewhat phony assurances of his love.
There is something amiss in the story that this guy paints of his life. He is so totally in love with you and yet this guy, who has been strictly monogamous in his two prior marriages — despite being put upon by the woman in each case, will not be monogamous with you. Becausee of hurt from his two prior monogamous marriages. Really? And after only nine months of an intense relationship? This guy has defined himself the way he wants you to see him and you have gullibly swallowed the whole line. I think you’ve been conned.
WWS. It doesn’t sound like you are okay with this at all, & if you try to force yourself to be, this relationship is going to crash & burn. You will wind up resenting him no matter how little you hear about his other lovahs– I mean, do you even need to know the details to be upset? You’ll know that every time he’s not with YOU, he’s potentially with somebody else. When you’re saying things about “blissful energy” and how you’re certain you “do not want to be with anyone else”, I can’t imagine these circumstances not eating away at you.
And it’ll be really apparent when it does– so he’ll most likely end up resenting you, as well. Like Wendy said, this arrangement could be pretty sweet for two people who are totally, genuinely cool with it. But you are not.
As a side note…I think 9 months is a little soon to feel so “in love”? It’s hard to dial it back at this point, but in the future it’ll be a good idea to realize that you don’t TRULY know anybody in this amount of time.
LW, I think therapy will be really helpful with you. I think you need to change the narrative about yourself. You say your independent and not controlling but will not assert your needs. Strong Independent women do not need to be controlling b*tches. You both sound like you have been in the dating pool for awhile, so you know what is out there. Think about what you want and go after it. You have the right to be happy and not his tuesday/thursday girl.
Also, let me stress how important protection is. Do you know that the fastest growing population for HIV/Aids are older single people. While 20 somethings have been taught about condoms since birth many others have missed that memo.
But the great news is that you have time to decide, without the make babies clock swinging over your head, you have the time to explore your feelings and needs. In the mean time, I would start filling up your calendar with other dates for you both to see what playing the field is like.
first off, wtf is this- “Our blissful new relationship energy has sustained for nearly nine months”… wow, nine whole months? i dont get it- are you surprised this has happened? has it never happened for you before? has no relationship last for 9 months? im just confused as to why you are so surprised that you have “new relationship energy” for *nearly* nine months.
anyway,
i think that you need to figure out what this “head in the sand” approach really means, because i do think it is a valid way to go about non-monogamous relationships. i havent totally ruled out the fact that one day, that might be a good option for a relationship. but, i would definitely go with a “head in the sand” non-monogamous relationship. i dont want to hear about my partner’s other conquests, i dont want to know what they said to you, or how good the sex was, ect, ect. i would even go so far as to ask that i dont accidentally smell a different perfume on clothes, or things like that- but not because i want to live in a dream world where it really is just the two of us, just because i dont want to be clued into those specific details. where do you sit regarding that? if you are really happy with this guy, and you could be happy with both of you being non-monogamous as long as the “other” partners are not brought up, try it out. in fact, i would say to try it out regardless. you cant know if you dont like something you have never tried, right? maybe it could work for you- you never know. if, however, you know for a fact that you wont be able to handle just the knowledge that he isnt monogamous, you should not go any further, and you need to just cut your losses and MOA.
The relationship may work on a whole set of levels but if it is not working on a level that is important to you – then it just isn’t working. So many of us have met the perfect guy – dreamy in all ways…. except for that one particular way which sadly meant he just wasn’t the guy for us after all.
Ask yourself how important is monogamy to you? Because I think for this to work your answer has to be somewhere between “not at all” and “not particularly”. Anything more than that – including your head in the sand as to the reality of the situation – unfortunately means this man isn’t the man for you. On the plus side though you now know exactly what you need in your next partner and what you can’t have. And though it may not feel like it – that’s progress and a step closer to the type of relationship that can be successful for you. Good Luck!
Well, if the guy is a “caretaker” by nature, can we assume that he is caretaking you by lavishing you with the reassurances and words you want to hear…while actively looking to date other women, enjoy their favors, and presumably tell them what they would like to hear too?
It’s just a little stinky if you ask me…
I’m just lost when people blame men who are up front about what they want. It’s like the guy can never win. What could this guy do differently? He told her what he is interested in, what his boundaries are. It doesn’t sound like a mutual process of discovery because she wants monogamy…which isn’t on the table for him. How is that at her expense if she knows the deal and he is being honest?
Exactly. He has been open and up-front about what he wants and intends to do. Wasn’t there just another letter like this the other day, or was I commenting on an old one? I don’t know. But I do remember seconding someone who said “the guy is not always the villain of the piece” or something to that effect.
From what we know if the situation, he’s not playing her and he’s not taking advantage. He’s telling her what he wants, and if she sticks around, it’s a tacit agreement that that’s OK with her. She runs into a problem if she sticks around even though it’s not OK with her.
Non-monogamy is not for everyone. But it sounds like this man could have some of the right qualities for being a partner you explore non-monogamy with (loving, honest, not jealous). I’d recommend reading Opening Up, and the Ethical Slut, and at least having a discussion on what sort of boundaries/rules you’d want to have. You need to be armed with information. And if after doing your research, or trying it out for awhile, you decide it’s not for you….you’re free to end things with him. Just because you agree to try it, doesn’t mean that you’re obligated to stick around.
Wendy really hit it on the head here. This type of relationship can work for a lot of people, and also be a nightmare for others. If I were in your shoes, I would just be completely honest with him about these feelings you are having and let him decide.
So you might say, “Look, I love you and I have completely enjoyed this relationship. I would love for it continue. I understand how you feel about being monogamous, and that is entirely reasonable; I’m just not sure it’s reasonable for me. So, if I said that I wouldn’t be able to continue being with you as a result of that, how might that change things for you??” That puts the ball in his court. If he’s willing to let you go, then there is your answer.
If he feels as strongly for you as he says he does, he’ll ultimately have to weigh what is more important to him. And you have a right to know what is more important as well. You aren’t those other women, and you’ve been exceptionally open to everything he’s said. That doesn’t mean, however, that you have to agree with it or put up with it.
LW, I suspect that based on your letter here that you want to be ok with an open relationship, either because you don’t want to let go of this man (more likely) or because you have intellectualized it in some way (less likely), but you aren’t ok with it on an emotional level and that’s really what all of this boils down to.
As someone that constantly deals with cognitive dissonance myself, the only advice I can give you is that you should not discount your emotional reluctance to accept the idea. No amount of telling yourself that you can get over this emotional “hang up” will actually make you accept it. Therapy might help you discover the true reason why you don’t accept the idea and it’s valuable for that reason but it’s not going to help you with “getting emotions in line” with what you are thinking. And that is ok. It’s ok to have seemingly “irrational” emotions as long as you are true to yourself and your desires.
Meh, if you have to ask then you need to move on.
“He was faithful to his previous wives, but he now believes that his new-found happiness is due to his freedom to love without artificial/institutional restrictions. I think a big part of his current happiness is because he has found someone — me — to share time and love with who is actually a better fit for him.”
This part right here shows me you don’t really want an open relationship. You don’t even believe him that he does! LW – if you, even a little part of you, is banking on being able to change his mind, then this will NEVER work. MOA and save your heart while you can.
To be honest, I think the things this man has told you about his dead wife should be a huge red flag as to the type of guy he really is when in a relationship. Who talks shit about their spouse after their death? He was relieved by her death? WTF?! Why do you even want to be in a relationship with someone who A) does not want to be in a relationship with you and B) may start to hate you and wish for your death if you dare to get ill while you two are in a relationship?
I know there are people who are ok with sharing their partner. I am not one of them, but to each his/her own. It sounds like you are not ok with sharing but simply don’t want to lose him. It might be better to just cut your losses now if an open relationship isn’t what you want. And go get tested for STDs immediately, as you don’t know if he’s practicing safe sex with his other partners.
LW, I know that you are reeling with emotions with this relationship. I know you enjoy each other and you may make each other mutually happy. Yet your letter sounds like someone in angst over the definition of love and potentially reeling with insecurity over the fact that you may not truly be enough for this guy. LW, forget strategizing with how to keep this guy happy, please ask your independent self, “Are you happy with the kind of person you are when you are with this guy?” If this relationship makes you unhappy with any definition or aspect of your identity, whether it’s a snapshot of you are or the person you will become when you stay with him, then you need to end it. I don’t care if you connect on 99.9% levels with the guy – if that 0.1% is something you truly feel and identify with and compromising on it makes you unhappy, then MOA.
It seems like this guy wants less of a polyamorous relationship and more like he just wants to back it up a bit to before you became exclusive. That relationship can work for some people and all the power to them. If you need therapy to see if you can “stomach” that facet of your relationship though, that should tell you that you can’t. You shouldn’t need therapy 9 months in. Also, please don’t ignore that he talks shit about his dead wife. That is bad on so many levels. Even if he tells you that he is confiding in you because thats how deep your relationship is. Yikes.
It’s hard to tell from your letter whether you’re uncertain about this situation because you just don’t want to lose your boyfriend by insisting he not see other women, or if you’re unsure because you’ve always just assumed you would be monogamous. If you’re unsure because it’s new territory for you, then it might be worth it to try it out in a more “official” way.
If you want to give it a try, you need to do non-monogamy your own way, whatever that is. I’ve been in a non-monogamous relationship before, and it worked really well for us. However, we set ground rules and re-communicated about boundaries every couple months to make sure we were still on the same page. These are some of the ground rules we came up with:
1) We both agreed that our relationship was the number one priority. Any side action could not interfere with our time together.
2) We agreed that our side dates would be purely physical encounters. If either of us started feeling an emotional attachment to a third party, it was called off. We could also veto specific people that would make us uncomfortable (i.e. coworkers or friends we would see often).
3) We also decided to have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, but we could ask for information about other partners if we wanted to know. However, there were never any specifics given (i.e. positions, number of orgasms, etc). We also agreed to use condoms together and with other partners and to get tested every three months, just in case.
4) Either of us could call off the arrangement and go back to monogamy at any time, no explanation needed.
This is what worked for me/us, but you will need to come up with your own ground rules that make you feel comfortable. Ask your boyfriend if he would be willing to consider your terms. If you can’t come to an agreement, then it’s probably best that you both MOA.
I can understand him not wanting to marry again, at least not for a while, but I don’t think he truly loves the LW. If he did, he wouldn’t want to be with anyone else and couldn’t stand the thought of her being without anyone else either. I’ve been with my BF for 3 years and I’m “older” (51) and was married for 28 years. I’m OK with not being married (at least for now) but I wouldn’t be OK with him seeing other people and I have no desire to be with anyone else so I just don’t get it.
According to the story this guy has fed the LW he not only has great stamina but he is PERFECT, paragon of virtue,etc.!!! Which in and of itself is a red flag when you really think about it 🙂
I feel for you LW. I swear to god, every guy I’ve ever been really into NEVER want’s to be monogamous. They’re poison.
I’m truly starting to think there are WAY more men out there who will never want to be monogamous, and those that are in monogamous relationships start to resent their partner. Women will always, always want monogamy more than men. This is a fact that I’m starting to accept.
Or I’m cynical and bitter. At 23. Sigh.
If you want monogamy and he doesn’t you don’t have a good relationship period. Don’t be desperate and stay with someone who will slowly bring you down. You can’t choose who you love but you can certainly choose how you let them treat you. I think you need to find a man who is committed to only you.
Simple story…..my brother was happily married and lost his wife. He was very handsome and had women calling him, not the other way around. He told me that for a few months he had sex with a different woman every night and began to hate it. He loved his monogamous life and found another woman to love and never looked back.
In this era it appears to be a man, or woman, who wants ANYTHING will go for it because they feel are entitled to it even if it hurts someone else. He has been clear about what he is doing so you cannot say you haven’t been warned. I think when people like you write in you want someone to magically fix the problem. Sadly this is your decision. Can you live with a man who cheats on you because in your heart that is what it feels like. Only you know whether you can live with that or not.
You also have the right to determine, for you, what the “price of admission” into a relationship with you is. Is that monogamy? Is it agreeing to certain rules? That is your “price of admission”, and he has his of course. The key here is whether you can live with each other’s “price of admission” for this relationship to move forward. Because all relationships include some element of compromise.
I don’t think this letter is about polyamory or about non-monogamous committed relationships or anything like that. I think it’s about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole because you just want it to fit so much. Everyone has been through that, whether with a friendship, with a job, or with a relationship.
There are some things in life we just have to make work: we may hate our jobs but we can’t find a new one or we need the schedule/benefits/whatever. We may want to move, but not be in a position to do so. The babysitter may annoy us to tears but we may have to put up with her because we can’t find anyone else. And so on.
But you get to choose relationships. You don’t ever have to “make them work.” We are not talking about a boyfriend or husband who is obsessed with sports when you can’t even watch a game and understand what’s happening, or a partner who develops an annoyingly sixth-grade sense of humor whenever he’s around his buddies. Those things are well worth putting up with when the rest of the package is exactly what you want. But when the two of you have a fundamentally different vision of what a satisfying relationship looks like, you’re selling yourself short if you decide to settle for something that – while neither a better nor worse option than anything else – isn’t what you really want, and won’t really make you happy.
Could it work? Sure, but if it goes badly it goes really bad. Seems like he’s keeping his options open. Why wouldn’t that make him happy? He can just walk if something better comes along, or not if it doesn’t.
Personally there is too much gas in my car for that crap.
I could never be okay with this, but as has been pointed out.it works for some people. However, it does not sound like it will work for you.
I also find some things do not seem to add up here. The timing is so odd I wonder if he has already met someone he wants to see/have sex with. So he is trying to make you okay with it and also keep you as a backup plan. I think you will be unhappy if you agree to this change in your relationship. I would leave now to avoid all the pain and ending up leaving later anyway.
WWS: “ What you may need help deciding is whether your ability to stomach something is the best measure for whether something is good and right and the best option for you” mic drop, Wendy.