“I’m 30 And Have Never Had A Date!”
I’m very good friends now with someone I would love to date, but I’m afraid I’ve already fallen into the “friend zone” with him. I have tried dating apps too, by the way, and that didn’t go well. I try very hard to celebrate my singleness and most of the time I succeed, but with my (younger) sister’s wedding coming up I’m getting just a little bit less celebratory. Is it time to join a convent? — 30 and Dateless
No, it’s not time to join a convent, but it’s definitely time to adjust your attitude. It’s great that you think you’re relatively successful, intelligent, attractive, easy to talk to, and very friendly, but why on earth haven’t you extended some of that confidence and positive thinking toward your love life? And why are you so convinced no guy has ever been attracted to you? How can you possibly know the thoughts of every guy who has ever laid eyes on you? You can’t. The truth is, there’s no conceivable way you could have any idea how many men have been attracted to you over the years, and the fact that you think you do, leads me to believe you suffer from some sort of extreme “relationship dysmorphic disorder,” a term I totally made up that’s inspired by the definition of “body dysmorphic disorder.”
Body dysmorphic disorder is a “psychological disorder in which the affected person is excessively concerned about and preoccupied by a perceived defect in his or her body image.” It’s commonly understood as the disorder in which a person sees something in the mirror that greatly differs from what others see when looking at him or her (imagine a skinny person seeing a fat person in the mirror). Relationship dysmorphic disorder is, as I define it, an issue where the affected person is excessively concerned about and preoccupied by a perceived defect in his or her ability to attract a mate and sustain a relationship. The idea of RDD is that the affected person thinks she is defected when it comes to relationships (and should join a convent), while people who know her can’t understand where in the world these thoughts come from.
So, how can you treat RDD? Well, to start with, I’d suggest therapy to get to the root of where these negative thoughts stem from. Was there verbal abuse in your past? Were you criticized a lot as a child? Do you suffer from social anxiety? I’d also enlist a very good friend or two to be brutally honest with you about how she perceives your search for love. Surely, you have a dear friend who has been privy to your relationship woes. What does she think is the issue? Let me be clear: you are not asking your friend why she thinks men aren’t attracted to you; you’re asking her why she thinks you haven’t had luck in your search for a date. There’s a difference.
While you have the help and support of a good friend, I’d suggest you fire up on the ol’ dating app profile again. You say your initial foray “didn’t go well,” but what does that mean? Clearly, you didn’t even go on a first date with anyone, so what are you basing your critique on? Did you strike up an email correspondence with anyone? Was there anyone you found attractive or interesting? Were you proactive in reaching out to those people or did you passively wait to be contacted? Did you cast a wide enough net, or were you limiting your search to handsome 33-year-old MDs with Doberman Pinschers? Pinpointing exactly why your online dating experiment “didn’t go well” will go a long, long way in figuring out why you haven’t had any luck in relationships in general. Maybe you’re too picky. Maybe you aren’t as friendly as you think you are. Maybe you aren’t presenting yourself in the best light or making it easy for men to find you (for example, not posting a picture of yourself is a sure way to limit the amount of attention you attract online).
Finally, if you actually have a guy in your real life whom you’re into, then for the love, ask him out already! If he says “no,’ you’ll survive, and you’ll also have a wonderful opportunity to learn a little something, especially if you’re as close with him as you say you are. If he says no to your request for a date, ask if there’s anything you’re doing that’s sabotaging your chances at love. I simply don’t believe that a 30-year-old woman who is everything you say you are would have as much trouble finding a date as you have without taking some active role in her situation. There’s either some reason you don’t want to date (men) and you’re subconsciously sabotaging your attempts, or, as I said earlier, you suffer from my made-up diagnosis, RDD, and the defects you think you have when it comes to relationships only exist in your head. Either way, one thing’s clear: you’d benefit from therapy (and a little tough love from a few close friends) much more than you would a trip to a convent.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
It is statistically unlikely (in the extreme) that no man has ever been attracted to her, but I am interested in the fact that she has never been on a date. Maybe guys have asked her out before without her realizing they were expressing sexual interest? It just seems unlikely that a woman would go thirty years without being hit on, so I am inclined to think a lot of this is in her head. When I was younger, I was very hard on myself (and had body image issues) and therefore thought that no guys were interested in me. Looking back on it, I now realize that I was hit on quite a lot, but I didn’t pick up on it because of my negative perspective. The other side is that she may be extremely picky. Some women will moan, “No man wants to date me,” but they really mean, “No handsome millionaire with a heart of gold wants to date me.” Realistic expectations and a deep appreciate for genuine people with all their charms and flaws will go a long way in the search for a great mate.
I agree with you, in addition to my post.
“It is statistically unlikely (in the extreme) that no man has ever been attracted to her, but I am interested in the fact that she has never been on a date.”
Statistically unlikely does not mean impossible. I really don’t know why this is so difficult to fathom. Yes, there are women out there who are ‘too picky’ and moan that no Prince Charmings out there are falling at their feet, but unfortunately, however unlikely you think it to be, the Undateable are out there. I know because I’m one of them. People forget that for any one person to be ‘more desireable’ there has to be someone else who is ‘less desireable.’ While for some people this is a temporary condition, some of us are less lucky that way.
When I was in high school, the idea of anyone dating me was a joke. I was fat, unstylish, nerdy and unpopular. As I matured I found friends, but not dates. The idea of going to prom was so ludicrous that to this day I still don’t know if my mother understood that not even same-sex friends would want to go with me, or if she just thought my class never had a prom. (She went so bananas for my sister’s prom that I suspect the former).
I then opted to attend a women’s college. Not being either lesbian or bisexual, the odds of dating did not improve. I am however, unique among my straight college friends in that I was never once hit on by a woman. It’s not like I wouldn’t have figured it out eventually, everyone else did. For me, it didn’t happen. It wasn’t the men who didn’t find me attractive, it was clearly everyone.
I then went on to graduate school in science. No one has time to date anyway, but it really didn’t matter. By then I was fat again and spent all my time in the lab. It was about this time that I realized I was not in fact oblivious to flirting, because I realized it was happening to people all around me in my presence, just not to me. It was rather like high school all over again, but without the put downs.
Now I’m 33 years old, still Undateable (though thinner), and am surrounded by Married People With Children. Somehow I have managed to go from the Land of Singles to the Land of Married without ever passing through the Dating Lands. I could blame it on shallow men (and shallow women?) but I’m honest; the common denominator is me. I’ve been thin, I’ve been fat, I’ve had bad teeth, I’ve had them fixed, I’ve had terrible clothes, I’ve had better clothes, I’ve worked crazy hours and I’ve had times of work/life balance. None of it has ever made a difference.
As for the ‘near misses’ of ‘men who were supposedly attracted to me,’ it consists of 1) the 30-something sci-fi con boy who half-heartedly hit on me at a con, after hitting on every single other female at the con first. He was actively looking for a place to sleep. I don’t consider this a sign of attraction when his pick up line consisted of ‘I think your friends are trying to set you up with me’ as opposed to daring to suggest he might actually want that. 2) the guy who flirted with me on the bus, whose first act on our ‘date’ was to pee in the bushes, then want to ‘hug’ and who continued to call. That he spent most of the ‘date’ planning our financial future and ‘didn’t have a phone number’ told me he was looking for a meal ticket and seemed to think scientists make a lot of money. Just because I’m Undateable doesn’t mean I don’t know that men who don’t have phone numbers are men who are already living with someone else.
Some of you may argue ‘but look, see, it’s statistically impossible to NEVER have someone be attracted to you.’ Having someone attracted to your dorm room or your wallet is not having someone be attracted to you, and going your whole adult life without the barest nibble of attraction is not so impossible that it doesn’t happen. Hollywood likes to tell us that the shy wall flower or the wimpy nerdy guy gets out of high school and becomes a vixen or a hunk or at least reaches a reasonable level of attractiveness and finds a companion. Reality says that sometimes that just doesn’t happen. Some people get over the dating barrier, other people find hobbies and adopt cats. It’s not that it’s statistically impossible for Undateable people to exist, you’re probably just not noticing them either.
Alli, it sounds like you are suffering from RDD, too.
It also sounds like you don’t have a whole lot of confidence in yourself. I think you could benefit from some therapy, like Wendy told the LW. This self efficacy is unhealthy- and it may contribute to your perceived “undateableness”
I’m so sorry you feel this way about yourself. No one deserves to feel unwanted. Please, please find a professional to help you work through this.
AMEN. Alli, you definitely need a big jolt of confidence. No one deserves to go through life thinking all of those negative things about themself! Who cares if you once had bad teeth, or you were overweight? There are PLENTY of people out there with those same qualities (and WORSE, I know!) who like what they see in the mirror. And there are plenty of guys who would like that reflection, too. I promise you that the reason you, and the LW are “undateable” (which you are not!) is because YOU think you are. Guys are very tuned-in to confidence, and if you have none, and if you dislike yourself as much as you seem to, how in the world can THEY like and love you? It may sound tired, but people will love you if you love yourself first.
I really don’t want you to feel sorry for me. Most of the time I don’t. But I really get tired of dating advice consisting solely of ‘oh, just change your attitude and it will happen.’ No, sometimes it won’t. Sometimes no matter how much you want it to, it really, really won’t, and I don’t want to spend the rest of my life waiting for my ‘dating life’ to happen. I know too many bitter people who, even having had a dating life, however small, found it got them exactly nowhere. At some point you have to throw in the towel and find something else to do.
I didn’t write that overly long post to get sympathy, more to just say that it’s actually not all that unheard of for someone to get to age 30 and for them to be just as undesired and invisible dating wise as they were when they were 14, if not more so. I don’t have Wendy’s ‘Dating Dysphoric Disorder’, because I really do have a realistic view of my dating prospects. I don’t have Body Dysmorphic Disorder either. I’m know when I’ve been fat, I know when I’ve been less fat (and I’m really happy with my current weight, and really only want to weigh less for health reasons at this point). But being self-sufficient, confident, independent, somewhat thinner and somewhat better dressed is not going to change my dating prospects. It never has before, and it never will. My goal in life is finding something else to judge my self worth on and find some other route to happiness and fulfillment, because dating has never been an option.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that for some people changing their attitude might work, but it’s really not going to work for everybody, and it’s not always the root of the problem. And just because someone may ‘feel’ like no one has ever been attracted (or more specifically, no one has ever expressed interest), doesn’t mean it isn’t true. For some people it is, and it’s very dismissive to assume that this can’t happen to someone.
Sorry, you wrote this while I was writing my reply – and you address some of the things I say. First, I don’t feel sorry for you. YOU are the only one with the power to change, so if you choose to go through life with this pitiful attitude then it’s your own damn fault if you can’t find someone to share your life with, even on an interim or casual basis.
“being self sufficient, confident, independent, somewhat thinner and somewhat better dressed is not going to change my dating prospects. IT NEVER HAS BEFORE AND IT NEVER WILL.” Yeah it hasn’t done anything before because you don’t BELIEVE in the power of those things to change you. And your fatalistic approach to the future is simply ridiculous. It’s like you’ve built this wall of steel around you. I’m not saying that dating is even a requirement to being happy – but you quite obviously have such negativity about it that it’s clear it IS important to you, whether you admit it or not.
I think the best thing you said was that you need to find other roads to happiness and fulfillment. I honestly wish you success with that… because once you find that, I think you might just be surprised at what else you find – thus proving the point that attitude IS everything.
Look, I know it doesn’t sound like it here but I am in actuality an extremely empathetic person. I like to make people feel good about themselves, not tear them down. I don’t want this to come across as I’m berating you so I hope you’re not taking it that way. I really just want you to BELIEVE that these things that “everyone” is telling you are true, and use that as a force for good in your life.
Pointlessly positive people can be so annoying. They are wired to be positive against all facts and all odds and in the face of all reality. And they are tolerant of anyone but a person that doesn’t share their unbridled optimism. All you positive people do is set people up for disappointment when the unfortunate truth doesn’t match your pie in the sky unpractical viewpoint.
I got a question for you. Have you ever asked anyone else out on a date. If you haven’t, if you’ve been waiting to be pursued, then yes it IS an attitude problem.
I was once the same way as you alli wan. I grew up overweight, did some fluctuating throughout college, lost some, gained some, changed my hair, my clothes and my makeup. At the time, I felt pretty good about myself. I was a little on the shy side, but I had plenty of friends. I had pretty much resigned myself to a life of singleness and was pretty ok with it. I didn’t get any attention from men aside from the occasional guy that was really just using me to get to my friend. At that point in my life, I would have had the exact same things to say, that I was confident, happy with my looks and apparently men just weren’t interested. Then something changed. I had a few really rough life experiences that launched me into a bout of pretty bad anxiety and depression. During that year, everything in my life was difficult, from just getting in a car, to going out with friends. When I finally emerged from this episode, I had a completely new perspective on life. All of the little things that people take for granted I was thrilled with! Just feeling good enough to go out with friends on a friday night was enough to make me giddy. I lost 30 lbs and actually became the completely healthy sized person that I assumed I never would be (like I said, I was pretty ok with being 170 lbs, I was overweight but not huge or anything). I also started to embrace life more. I start looking at socializing completely differently. I stopped going out at night hoping to meet men, and started just going to have fun. I actually loved meeting new people and striking up random conversations, something that I was ok at before, but didn’t exactly enjoy. I started viewing all of these interactions as a way to enrich my life. Meeting new people was like a fun new game that I had never even known existed before. It wasn’t until I had gone through my episode with anxiety that I realized the kinds of vibes I was sending off before. I may not have been unhappy with myself, but I certainly never thought I was sexy. I didn’t expect anyone to be interested, so they weren’t! The first time I woke up thinking, damn i’m a pretty good catch, I started acting that way! People just seemed to believe whatever I thought in my head about myself. Before, I didn’t know how to interact with men and I was too afraid of awkward rejection to try. Now I look at every person I meet as a possible new friend. When I started loving life, men started flocking to me. It seems that all they really want is to be around someone that is having fun and enjoying themselves, no matter what the circumstances. The change that took place in me was very subtle, but it made all the difference when in came to relationships. Relationships shouldn’t be some type of goal that we have to reach in our lives. Mine happened to me when I was too busy enjoying myself and playing this new socializing game to even notice the new attention I was getting.
I completely know where you’re coming from, Alli. I honestly don’t know what it is about me that doesn’t really attract men, but I’ve had a relationship with exactly one dude in my 32 years of life. I’m kind of plain and I’ve been fatter and thinner–but the whole “getting hit on” thing just doesn’t seem to happen for me. I have friends, a decent job, interests, etc., and I’ve had people tell me they have no idea why I’m single…
Anyway, people always say it’s your attitude, or that you’ve had a bad childhood or whatever…but I honestly don’t think that’s the case. It is what it is, and the options are a) get over it or b) sit around and bemoan your lack of coupling.
That said, I’m not giving up hope completely–and I know I’ll have a good life, coupled or not. But I do believe your experience to be accurate.
All I wanted to say is that I’ve been where alli is, and I get it. While we’d all love to believe that everyone should be happily coupled up, it’s not for everyone, for a number of reasons. There are other things to do with your life besides define it by your significant other.
Also, as a (somewhat negative) sidenote, if I had written alli’s original post, I wouldn’t have appreciated the unsolicited advice about how to make myself more attractive to others. Then again, I’m just projecting, so I’ll stop there.
I really enjoyed reading your posts. You are so cool and very inspiring.
I think Wendy’s point (and mine) is that it is impossible to know this because it is impossible to get inside the head of every person who has ever seen you. “And why are you so convinced no guy has ever been attracted to you? How can you possibly know the thoughts of every guy who has ever laid eyes on you? You can’t. “
Wow, Alli. I’m going to be brutally honest here, because I really can’t think of any other way to approach this. I can FEEL the waves of negativity emanating from your post. Your tone is incredibly bitter… Now, I completely understand the feelings of bitterness and anger after reading your life as you’ve described it. However, I can’t help but feel that if a random stranger on the internet such as myself is so affected by your negative attitude (that’s like a combination of “poor me” and “fuck you”), that you are likely projecting this on the people you interact with on a regular basis IRL.
It is heartbreaking to me to think that some people are so full of self loathing or so lacking in confidence that it affects every facet of their life… I know it’s cliche but I agree with the others that it sounds like you (as well as the LW) could benefit from therapy. I absolutely don’t believe that you are Undateable, and I don’t even know you. Every negative thing about yourself that you described was physical in nature. You know, that’s not the be all and end all of the dating world. Where is your personality? There are a damn lot of men out there who REALLY dig a chick because of her personality and/or because of common interests – and those are the very guys that are also likely to find you physically attractive. You’re clearly not looking in the right places.
But bottom line, you have to lose the attitude. Besides the fact that so much negativity can manifest itself in various physical ways, it does you absolutely NO good – people are intuitive and they can sense when someone has no confidence.
I’d say figure out where your interests lie, start participating in some activities that include said interests (outside of work), get some therapy, and you’d be amazed at how it can affect your life. It sounds cliche – but cliches exist because most of the time they’re true.
@alli_wan: I’m guessing that your reaction to people saying that you’ve got RDD (and/or BDD) and just need more confidence in order to get guys to want to go out with you is probably something along the lines of “they have no idea what they’re talking about.” Your comment was very well-written and detailed, and you have certainly been dealing with this for a very long time. So… I’m going to assume that you’re absolutely right. Furthermore, I’m going to assume you’re not just unattractive but actively, repulsively ugly – no matter how you actually look, what I’m imagining is worse. The way I’m picturing you – and, again, it’s far worse than you are – there’s no way any degree of confidence would help you.
Given that, are things helpless? No. Not even given that.
First, as others have recommended, exercise. There is no downside to that, assuming you don’t get so extreme that you injure yourself. Exercise is always a good thing. It builds confidence, it improves body image, it make you feel better physically and mentally. You’re a scientist. You know this.
Second, figure out a good target weight – or more properly, a good target size, and get there. Your body is changeable, and you can reach the size you want. You can’t change your genetics, but you can change your shape. Being at a good weight for your height has numerous benefits, and there’s no downside to that, either. Again, you know this.
Third, make sure your attire suits you. Doesn’t need to be sexy, but make sure you like the way you look in it. This also builds confidence and, aside from some cost which can be minimal, it has no downside.
After all of that, I’ll assume you’ll be a healthy, in shape, well-rested, well-dressed ugly person. You won’t be, but I’ll continue with that assumption. Even so, at that point, you’ll be far more dateable because you’ll feel better about yourself. It’s inevitable. You cannot possibly exercise, get into a good shape and weight, dress well, and not feel at least better.
Next, if you truly are just screwed genetically, fix those things that seem most fixable. There’s really nothing about one’s appearance that cannot be changed. I am not an advocate of plastic surgery in most cases, but if what stands between you and happiness is a nose, or your teeth, or whatever, then… fix them.
As soon as you are ok with the way you look, you will find that guys will be attracted to you. Not all men, everywhere, but enough men, and not just strange ones on buses and at conventions. The key really is confidence, but when you’re so positive you don’t have any reason to have it, you first need to build those reasons.
JSW- very true. There are so many things about our appearances that are within our control, that genetics only plays a part in the final outcome of how we look. And even if Alli or the LW were repulsively ugly, which I doubt, there are plenty of men who are also less attractive than average. There is no such thing as undateable. None. Doesn’t exist. Everyone’s love life is within their control.
I have some suggestions to LW and alli_wan.
1. Did you ask some of your close friends to set you up with some guy? Why not?
2. Did you seek out some shy, possibly less-than-hot guy who was staying close to the wall at some event, not really able to work up the nerve to barge in and talk to the girls? Why not? You could be doing BOTH of you a huge favor!
3. Go to a bar or club in an area where nobody knows you, with a couple of close girlfriends. Try to just strike up a conversation with some decent guys, or encourage it if/when it happens. Ask them what you could change about you to attract more invitations to dates. I feel most decent guys will give you pretty blunt pointers about what vibe you are giving out, rather than what vibe YOU THINK you are giving out.
Alli,
I have a coworker who is in her mid thirties and has never dated, who is still a virgin. She feels pretty much the same way about it as you do, I absolutely can see where you are coming from. She is overweight and I do think that adds a lot to her stress. From my perspective though, it doesn’t matter. I think she is beautiful, and fucking hilarious, and a wonderful person. If I was a lesbian I would date her because I truly believe she is worthy and deserving of love.
I have a feeling you are the same way.
I never realized it until I chatted on a dating site recently with a really depressed guy looking for a girlfriend, but the slightest hint of low expectations or negativity is so easy to pick up. I’m definitely not the most well-adjusted person, but this guy’s attitude was filtering into even his initial attempts to contact me, and it was making me less than enthusiastic to meet him, even though he was doing his best to appear happy and confident and hide the problems he had.
I have the same problem of believing that “men don’t like me” myself, but this run-in convinced me that i probably am not hiding that negative belief as well as I think I am, and it might just be thinking this way that is turning folks off. You may be attracting a lot of early attention from guys, but they get discouraged by the whole “you couldn’t possibly be into me” attitude and will usually give up before making their interest known to you.
This is something I’m still working on myself, but I’ve only recently realized that If you insist on believing men don’t like you that way, it will be difficult for a man to truly convince you otherwise. It’s pretty painful for the person who loves you if you keep doubting them by indirectly saying that you don’t think you’re attractive, so why should they.
I can relate to this post. This is very much my life as I am almost 30-years old and have never had a boyfriend and have been on one date (and I had to ask him out). I will be honest. Weight is an issue and I was constantly criticized as a child and told no man would want me for being fat. I have a VERY critical family. I seem to really get the brunt of it from all angles. It’s like they all take a opportunity to kick me in the face. Fast forward and I’ve been diagnosed with a thyroid issue that I am treating and I feel hopeful about my health as it relates to my weight.
I still feel really insecure about, well, me. I admit I don’t have very many friends — people my age don’t tend to want to be friends with me — which means I don’t get out, well, at all. I also find myself single in the land of the married.I have a kick ass career that requires me to be people oriented. But when you’re the manager, it puts you off limits to some of the social avenues in the workplace.
And if you don’t feel sorry for me yet. I am an African-American female living in place that is predominately Caucasian. Needless to say, I am at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to standards of beauty. And speaking of stats, studies show that most men would rather date any race other than a black women, even if they are a black man.
Well folks, this is my everyday reality. So while I feel more hopeful about my weight, I feel very helpless about my social situation.
If you have a thyroid issue, the weight issue may go away. Best luck!
It’s possible. I am 45 and have never dated anyone. I have met guys via Internet, in person and otherwise. None of those meetings ever resulting in a “dating” relationship. Some of this was the result of not willing to compromise on Christian values but other than that I am totally disappointed that I do not really appeal to guys. If I meet someone I am interested in, I pursue them and not the other way around. I am at a totally hopeless state now and at the point of just going out with anybody for whatever reason
I totally disagree especially the way it has been tried out to answer the issue. lets be honest I think boys these days have lost confidence and when they see a beautiful attractive successful woman they either dont have the balls to approach or they think the same that is impossible this lady had no hit on. I have seen a lot of potentially good looking and smart guys for dating but they picked girls that were outrageously uneducated and way tooo younger than them .I come to conclusion that what is left out there are grumpy grandpas to date. this is sad. I see a lot of girls in 30s that really want a reliable relationship and sometimes because of culture or tradition they come from they wouldnt take the first step to ask a guy out first. to be honest there is nothing wrong to be picky in online dating. are you really decided to date anyone there? absolutely not! some broken in past relationships dudes posing like they are celebrities, bodybuilding fanatics, single parents… these are not really good choices for a awesome lady.
Do you live in an area with a lot of Christians? If not, MOVE. Then you can visit a ton of different churches, meet people with like values, and make friends who will hopefully introduce you to their friends. I have an ex-friend who at 50 had never dated anyone. He lived in a very liberal area full of married people. His dating pool was TINY. All of his outside interests were things that were primarily dominated by geeky single men. He also was only attracted to women that were about 4 times more attractive physically than he was. There’s a reason they call it a “match.” Personally, I am more attracted to intellect than anything else. I have dated men that were NOT physically attractive in the way that society would see them. But I was so attracted to their *brain* that they became cute to me. That’s pretty rare, but hey, I used to know a 50 yr old guy in the NY area that was still a virgin and would *never* ask a woman to compromise her Christian values. A large church home is an obvious place to find a single person who shares your values. Good luck.
Even though this LW thinks that she is doing everything right, there is probably something she can do to make herself more attractive/appealing to the opposite sex. The signal that she wants to date is not coming across.
Learn to flirt. Smile, make eye contact, ask for help with something then smile and say thank you. Practice making small talk with strangers so you don’t lose your cool when talking to a cute guy.
Exercise- even if your weight is perfect, it will get you in tune with your body and make you feel more confident and sexy.
Check out your clothes. Are they clean, ironed? Do they match? Do they flatter your figure? Guys are visual creatures- are your clothes girly? Some may disagree with this advice, but I really do think that girly colors and cuts (pretty, brighter colored shirts with feminine details like a v-neck, a cami + cardi with a little lace or a little ruffle) send the message that you’re single and available to date. If those really aren’t your thing, start with small approximations and work your way up.
I like your point about girly clothes. It may not translate into the same outfit for every woman, but feminine details on clothing do seem to make women more approachable for men.
The clothes definitely matter. Men are very visually oriented and women dress to take advantage of that fact. I think this is often subconscious but if you watch what women wear you will see that women who are not in a long term commited relationship dress more provactively/sexily than women who are in a long term committed relationship. The clothing says, “I’m available, you can approach me.” The flip side of this is that women in long term relationships will often tone down their clothes and then their boyfriend feels like the woman no longer wants to be attractive to him but it really means she is committed to him.
I think flirty clothes are a statement and an invitation. “I’m flirting with you won’t you come flirt with me.”
If you have no idea why men don’t approach you I suggest you get a book on body language. Especially one devoted to the body language of dating or sexual chemistry. If you search Amazon.com for body language books you will find quite a few that are specifically geared to dating. I think they would help you to begin giving signals that show you’re interested and would also help you pick up on the signals that men are giving that show they are interested in you. Besides, these books are just plain fun to read.
I’ve got a similar story to the LW. I’m 26 and I’ve just gotten into really dating. I always had “dates” to prom and such, but they weren’t really dates or guys that wanted to be my boyfriend, they were friends. I didn’t really go on my first date until I was 23. My mother jokes that I was born without the flirting gene, and I think she’s right! Maybe the LW just doesn’t realize when a guy is flirting with her, because I sure didn’t. I’d have a guy hitting on me and it would go right over my head until my friends would pull me aside and yell at me for not flirting back. Now that I’ve made a more concious effort to flirt and be just a bit girlier (i was quite the tomboy growing up) I’ve noticed more male attention coming my way and I feel more comfortable with it.
It took me a long time to figure out what I was doing wrong, but now that I have and I’m making more of an effort to be confident and reach out to guys, I’ve found a really nice guy who makes me happy. It may have taken 26 years of not having a clue, but at least I finally pulled my head out of my you-know-what and put forth some effort. I think the LW probably has a lot going for herself and will find the right guy. Get back online and practice your body language and flirting, go on some practice dates with guys you may not totally be into, just to get a few under your belt and deal with the nerousness. Best of luck to you!
I went through a period in my early-mid twenties where I forgot how to flirt. I would cry all the time that men weren’t into me, there was something wrong with me and my friends would say “You probably shouldn’t argue and act snotty when a man approaches you, real turn off.” I am a relatively attractive woman, so it really is true that attitude and self-confidence makes a BIG difference.
Confidence attracts men. Fake it til ya make it.
So even if the confidence is not at 100% – if this is such a stresser for you, why not ask out a guy? I know it’s taboo but most of the guys I know would fall over from heart failure if a woman asked them out. THEY spend a lot of time stressing too, so it not only saves them the trouble but immediately gives them an ego boost. Wendy is right that you can’t really be sure that men haven’t been attracted to you but you also have to ask yourself if you have been seeking the right type of guy. If you know someone really cool and laid back, I bet he would love for you to ask him for coffee or drinks!
LW – Also there is always a chance to expand your attempts to meet single guys. I suggest an inter mural sports team if you are athletic or maybe see if any local bars do trivia nights if that is more your bag. Even dog parks are great ways to meet new people who might share a common interest with you. I have a number of GFs who have a hard time meeting guys and it normally stems from some key behaviors:
1. they go out in big groups which are intimidating for guys
2. they hang out mostly with committed people who are not likely to hit up the hook up spots
3. they have a gaggle of guy friends who they hang out with a lot but are firmly in the friends category – this lends potential suitors to be confused by the relationships (they ask themselves if she is dating one of the guys) and it gives my GFs a BF crutch because they get some of the benefits of a relationship (safe flirting and attention) but are not emotionally committed or putting themselves out there.
As Wendy said- if there is a guy out there you already like, ask him out! It is the 21st century and it is perfectly acceptable for the woman to be the aggressor in the relationship. Good luck!
P.S. I would also not broadcast your lack of relationship experience too early into any potential relationship. You can be vague and say that you haven’t had tons of luck with the dating scene when you first meet someone you might be interested in – after a few dates it would be better to broach the subject since the guy will already be interested in you and not prejudiced like he might if you have it posted on your dating profile or announce it on your first date. Anyone else thoughts about this?
Yes – there’s certainly no need to advertise a lack of experience. For a guy, that will send off some unnecessary red flags…he’ll likely be distracted by trying to figure out why you’ve been unlucky. There’s no need to share that up front. Also, your first post was what I was trying to get at, too – expanding your social activities is key to meeting more people.
I have to agree with Wendy. There is clearly something seriously wrong with your perceptions. There is absolutely no way that you’ve never been seriously hit on if you are 30, female and even remotely attractive. It is, however, entirely possible that you didn’t know it when it was happening. Some people just don’t flirt naturally. My husband is one of those people – he has always gotten hit on constantly, but he never really realizes it when its happening and always thinks its happening when it actually ISN’T. It got him into some trouble before we got together. Luckily for him, I made the first move and took care of that problem.
How much are you truly putting yourself out there? I understand how very difficult, and tiresome, it can be to go out on the weekdays or weekends after you’ve had a long day or week of work. Most days I just feel like going home, eating dinner, relaxing, etc. I’m wondering if your busy career may be preventing you from getting out with enough regularity to meet a bunch of different men. I would suggest joining some groups or signing up for activities that you personally enjoy doing – a painting class, a book club, the alumni association of your college, a rockclimbing group, whatever you enjoy doing! You’re much more likely to meet a man with whom you share some interests when you’re already doing something you enjoy. You’ll also have a shared topic of conversation, which will make it much easier to transition into a a real first date. This is exactly how I met my current boyfriend – we were in the same group that traveled abroad a few years back, and we were both there because we had a sincere interest in art, history, and culture. It certainly helps to get the ball rolling, and to meet people with whom you can share certain interests and activities in the future!
And, as some of the other commenters and Wendy have alluded to, is your list of “qualifiers” in a man particularly long? I think a great deal of women prevent themselves from meeting great guys because they *think* they know exactly what they want in a man, and won’t settle until they find that exact person. It’s great to have certain values and standards that you won’t compromise, but if your list is extremely long and you or a friend thinks you’re being unreasonable, maybe it’s time to reevaluate and be a bit more open-minded when it comes to the kind of men you see yourself dating. It’s definitely more important to agree with a partner about a set list of values and life goals than it is to agree about a long list of superficial or material desires. I wish you lots of good luck!!
There’s an episode of Sex and the City where Charlotte and Carrie go to big meeting with a dating guru and Charlotte asks a question. Charlotte says that she’s discouraged about finding love and that she’s trying, and the guru responds “maybe you’re not putting yourself out there. maybe you’re not really trying, really out there” and Carrie gets mad, and yells back at the guru, “Oh, she’s out there”
I feel like someone kind of needs to say this to you and possibly to the other people responding , especially in their response to Alli_wan. There are some people who follow all the advice and do all the recommendations and STILL can’t make it work. It doesn’t make them bad people. But accepting this doesn’t make them pessimists or have low-self-esteem. They MIGHT. But, like Alli_wan said, they might be that miniscule-y small portion of the population who it just never happens for. And its sad, but its also sad that some people never find the job that they love, never find a city that they click with, don’t talk to their parents because they are truly unfortunate ppl and a whole host of unfortunately true combinations of luck that some people experience.
Should they just accept their fate? Well, it depends. It depends what makes them happiest. They should do that.
I agree with wendy that LW might have her aptly-named RDD, but I don’t think Ali-Wan does. My brother wears a shirt that says “You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you”. Some people really are unattractive to the other sex. Lots of women have friends like this : they’re smart, they’re cool, they’re awesome people, and you WISH you liked them, so you can’t wait until they meet someone who will make them happy. But you aren’t attracted to them and that is insurmountable in terms of a sexual relationship. Most of the time, they do meet someone else, but sometimes, they don’t. Understanding that fact doesn’t make them “paranoid”. It makes them honest.
THANK YOU. This is what I’ve been wanting to say while reading this whole thread. Sometimes things just DON’T go right, and to blame it on a person’s attitude without even knowing them, like people are doing to Alli, is almost sort of insulting.
I’m in my mid-20’s, a virgin who has never been in a relationship. I have lots of guy friends, just never had a date. Always in the “friend zone.” I guess I’m too familiar, too “boy”-ish, too available, not flirtatious enough…not pretty enough. I’m a friend, but I’m just not sexually attractive to guys. I wish things were different, but I’m me, and this is the hand I’ve been dealt. For anybody to say “Don’t be silly! Men would be tripping over themselves to date you if you just smiled more often/looked more confident/wore a fluffy pink skirt!” seems condescending. I know who I am, I know my own life. I hope someday I’ll meet somebody who could be romantically attracted to my laid-back personality and low-maintenance style and all that crap. But until then, I’m Friend Zoned, and that’s just the way it is.
In addition to all the great advice above, you might also want to consider getting involved in an online community with male and female members. Having been active on a number of forums, I’ve seen firsthand how such communities can help pull people out of their shells. It’s a very “safe” place to do things – you can remain as anonymous as you like – but also can be a very social, flirty, open place, where you can watch interactions play out and try a bit of it yourself.
I’m not suggesting you look for a date with someone you meet on a forum (it happens, and it can work out wonderfully, but it’s not a good goal to go in with). I’m just saying they can be non-threatening environments to see both sexes interact and to try it yourself.
That’s a fantastic idea, and a great way to utilize the Internet for its social potential. My dad is autistic and has trouble interacting with people in person sometimes, but he has made friends through his favorite guitar forum.
I feel like the LW is unapproachable when men come up to her, and oblivious to the fact that they might be flirting with her.
I agree with the thought that she must not realize when men are flirting/expressing an interest. Maybe she should be the one to ask men out on dates? Get a friend to set her up for a double date? Try speed dating!
It also sounds like she is resigned to her ‘fate’ of being ‘undatable’ and may be subconsciously sabotaging herself.
I am sure she is a lovely person, she just needs to believe it about herself!
I really identify – I didn’t start dating until I was 26! To tell the truth, I was interested, but not interested enough. Friends told me that I was confident and straightforward enough (not flirty) that I gave off the vibe that I was already taken or not interested. I found my husband by deciding to use Craigslist for “practice” dating – meeting new men, but not taking it too seriously. Just meeting for coffee, happy hour, etc, and trying to make a good first impression. I enjoyed the experience – if you’re safe about it, there’s nothing to lose! I’d recommend it – the nice thing about dating online is that there is no ambiguity about whether or not the man is looking for a date. Don’t waste too much time online before meeting in person, and don’t be afraid to post an ad! It changed my life.
Also, I tried online dating a few years before that and had no luck – don’t be afraid to give it another go!
My experience is maybe similar? Definitely less extreme, but I do think there are some common threads. I did not have one, single date in high school, and I assumed that I was undateable. I am not unattractive, I am smart and funny, but I am shy. People didn’t bother to get to know me. OR that is what I thought when I was in high school. I have since realized that I was isolating myself. I was the cause. I didn’t LET people get to know me. I had female friends, but only one boy ever asked me out and he (not kidding at all) had recently pinned a girl against the wall and threatened to kill her! I didn’t let people in. I blamed others for passing me by, but I had essentially pulled myself out of the running before they had a chance to consider me.
When I got to college, I only made ONE friend–a boy, who became my boyfriend in a matter of weeks. We have been together for a few years, and he and I agree that we will not be needing to date anyone else, ever. I have never “dated.” It was never necessary.
I guess what this story boils down to is a piece of advice: put yourself in a new situation, where other people are in a new situation, too. Take a class, join or start a club or meet-up group, just do something new. I would not recommend doing any “singles” events (at least not for a while), because they can have a competitive atmosphere, which you don’t currently seem to have the confidence for. You don’t necessarily have to DATE. Dating isn’t for everyone. Sometimes people truly AREN’T datable, but they may be perfect for relationships, which could mean that you’re looking to the wrong people, in the wrong places or situations.
I had the same dating experience as you! That’s pretty cool! Sorry I have nothing useful to add.
I’ve considered writing to Wendy about my similiar situation so reading this has been so eye opening and helpful. I’m also a 29 year old virgin who has never been on a date. I had makeout partners in high school and guy friends I spent time with in college but an actual romantic and physical relationship has eluded me. I can’t say I really desire a relationship – it’s so unfamiliar to me to want a boyfriend or get married but I do feel out of place amongst my peers who are pursuing those things.
I did not spend my 20s going to bars or parties (never been to a party actually) and the friends I made in college have all been reduced to Facebook statuses. I am comfortable with my life as it is although I am still working on my career path and aim to achieve more success with that. Yet I found myself wondering what was wrong with me because there is this total disconnect I experience from my peers – they are excited about having babies and getting married and it all seems so foreign to me.
It took me some time and I’m still processing this as we speak but I realized that I wasn’t allowing myself to experience life. I am incredibly shy by nature and have a moral code that I upheld others towards but I realized through trial and error that I would never make new friends or experience love if I held people to high standards. Most importantly I also realized that I haven’t given people the opportunity to love me and how could I expect people to enter my life if I keep the door shut?
I think LW is on the right track with seeing all the wonderful qualities about herself but she needs to take that and develop some confidence and change her surroundings a bit. In meeting new people and experiencing new things, she should gain a more complete view of herself and that confidence will be so attractive.
I think you’re fine by holding people to high standards, there is nothing wrong with that. It’s when you expect everyone else to believe the same way you do, or act the same way you do, that it becomes more of a judgment rather than a standard.
Sounds like you are doing things right… 🙂
I have a hard time being around people who drink – I find alcohol to be so disgusting and I completely shut out people who partook in drinking. It took me awhile to realize that I was judging people for not agreeing with my lifestyle and denying myself the opportunity to get close to them.
Just a shame I realized this so late in the game – I feel like I missed out on my 20s so I can relate to LW being 30 and never having gone on a date. I constantly hear and read about how much fun your 20s are and that it’s the best time to explore the world and yourself. I don’t have dating experience so I feel light years behind my peers but my advice for LW, which I plan to follow myself, is to not focus on my age but to enjoy life and to love myself. It’s easy to list your best qualities but to believe in them is what truly makes you a whole person.
Do you cross your arms a lot? I do all the time, it’s just really comfortable for me, plus I’m almost always cold, and, I’m told, this signals to guys a) I’m not having a good time b) I’m bored c) leave me alone. I’ve only had guys tell me this (my father, my best guy friend, my boyfriend, professors, random guys I’ve met a concerts, etc, etc), but never a girl, it might just be a guy thing.
I love that even your profs commented on this. Crossing my arms is my default stance, I just don’t know what else to do with them.
I will say to the letter writer that a lot of people end up in relationships just for the sake of being in one, ignoring huge warning signs, etc. It’s hard to meet relationship-worthy people because they don’t necessarily go out and around trying to intiate dates, and are more likely to throw themselves into work or sports.
If she lives in a small town or city, she may need to consider living in a bigger city to meet more people–though in this economy it’s probably not recommended.
Crossed arms are interpreted to be a “defensive” posture, while arms relaxed at the sides are supposed to be “open” body language. I think it really might just be how men interpret it because I’ve never felt that way about these gestures, but if it’s true that guys will interpret it as disinterest, it might be a worthwhile behavior change to make.
(I’ve also posted as blurpke here, but I decided to go back to my preferred username.)
I didn’t start dating until last October, when my now-SO asked me out. I was a 28 year-old woman, had never dated, had not had anyone interested in dating me ever, and was fine with that. I had (and still have) an awesome best female friend with whom I travel, wrote, got a masters degree, got a cat….I won’t pretend there weren’t moments when I wondered why I seemed so unlovable, but I was overall happy. I met my boyfriend by surprise; he was enrolled in the community college course I taught. FWIW, aside from the fact that he always laughed at my corny jokes, I was not initially attracted to him. Actually, it took most of the semester for me to get the names of everyone in my class straight, his included. He asked me out after the class ended, and we have been very happy together (and there’s no conflict of interest; I was teaching a required writing course, and he won’t take any more entry level courses in his field of study). I guess what I am trying to say is, just live your life to the fullest. That’s what I was doing when he dropped into my life. I wasn’t expecting it; and while he makes me a happier person, I was happy before I met him and never felt I needed him to make me whole.
Yes, it’s the letter writer. I wanted to follow up on some of the comments and suggestions just so y’all don’t think I’m completely brainless.
As to therapy, I have been through it before for other reasons and I do believe it has helped me in many aspects of my life.
I am certain that when I was more shy that I missed flirting but now when it is actual flirting I can pick it up. However, the vast majority of of the flirting I am getting when going out is along the lines of one-night stand, and that’s not exactly my style.
I have been working on body language over the last several years and it turns out I have been doing the right things.
My net is not ridiculously narrow–I’m looking for a wide age range, a reasonable education level (some college or better–I have my master’s), don’t care about money, don’t care about religion, around my height or taller.
I do take some umbrage with those that suggest that I or other ladies in my predicament must be putting ourselves in this situation because we want to be here or because we’re not aware enough of our situations–if someone’s hitting on me, and I’m only smiling sweetly and carrying on a conversation with them, then just because I haven’t made a move to rip off his pants how exactly is that my fault for his not asking me out?
I am trying to summon the courage regarding asking out my friend, but he is rather old-fashioned, and I don’t think he would take it well if a girl did the asking. Also, I would hate to lose the friendship. Wendy, if you could pop back in on this one…
People always worry that expressing a romantic interest in a friend is ultimately going to ruin the friendship, but honestly, there’s no reason that has to happen if you’re casual about the whole thing. A simple, “Hey, our friendship is really important to me and I wouldn’t want to do anything that might damage it, but if you were ever interested in seeing if there could be something more between us, that’s something I’d be into exploring,” would suffice. Any guy who freaks out and runs away over that probably wasn’t such a close friend to begin with anyway. And the way you’re presenting the idea still gives Mr. Old Fashioned the opportunity to doing the asking out if it important to him.
Oh, man….
I was undateable in high school. Looking and thinking back, I probably wasn’t as awful-looking as I thought I was, but whatever–as the nerdy girl in a very small school system, who was often one of the target kids (y’all know what I mean… permabullied) there was just No Hope for dating.
I got to college, met a guy, (who was terrible and I should have known better) and dated. I continued dating guys who were looking for a meal ticket or crash space. I should have valued myself more. I didn’t. The people I wanted, didn’t want me. The people I dated, ended up treating me like garbage and tossing me away like it, too.
I’ve been single. I’m now married. My marriage was about on the rocks five years ago, when it finally, finally hit me– unless I do the things that make me happy–that genuinely make me happy, without reference to another damn person on the planet– then I won’t BE happy nor will I be able to assist anyone else in being happy. And that unhappiness was the total root of my…unattractiveness.
Not only did my marriage turn around, but now apparently I am totally The Sexy Bombshell amongst my circles. Go figure. (I’m kind of oblivious, but I’m told I figure high on a bunch of “really wanna date that, shame she’s married” lists. And hey, I’m willing to believe that!)
There’s no one key, but antidepressants and a raftload of hobbies did it for me. Stuff that I enjoy, not “try to enjoy on the way to finding a maaaaannnnnn”.
I’ve always felt that you must make your marriage happy rather than expect your marriage to make you happy.
How do you dabble in online dating without ever going on a single date?
If my years of dating have taught me anything, it’s that EVERYONE thinks they are a catch. Everyone thinks they are smart, attractive, and funny. Yet, surprise!, many people are not those things, at least to everyone interacting with them. Everyone describes themselves the same (wonderful!) yet we are objectively all so different. It seems to come down to how we define those qualities that makes us different.
LW, your sister’s wedding is a great place to pick up dudes.
I am in the exact same situation! I am 30 and I’ve never been in a relationship. The boys in highschool were too icky and even though I went out alot in university, there were no connections made. And then I fell into life post-university where there weren’t as many opportunities.
Most of the time I don’t miss being in a relationship. I’m a very outgoing person but I love my solitude as well. Currently I work from home and I love living by myself.I think I’m just getting too used to being by myself so that’s why I don’t like to put myself out there.
I’m not super girly although I like nice clothes and I will occasionally wear some makeup.
But I completely understand about guys not hitting on you. I’ve had a few guys hit on me, but not really. I’ve also tried online dating but I find that guys are either intimidated or weirded out about my job (I’m a sex writer). (Or I get old men hitting on me).
And now that I’ve reached 30 I feel like I’m getting too old. (Completely ludicrous I know but still… it’s a niggling thought in the back of my mind).
So LW, I definitely sympathize. I don’t really have any advice (since I’m in the situation) but I hope that with or without a guy you will be happy. 🙂
If the LW is referring to the fact that she has never been pursued, and has never tried doing the pursuing herself, I don’t think that makes her undateable. Who knows who could be out there waiting for her! I made the first move via a dating site to my boyfriend and he is the love of my life. He told me that if he had met me in person he would have been too shy to ask me out, so I’m very glad that I had the guts to approach him first!
What is undateable? Not having dated is different from some intrinsic quality that renders dating impossible. The LW seems to me like it just took her longer to get into the right situation and/or mindset and I’m sure she’ll be having better luck. The post by alli_wan, though, seems to be willfully negative and almost kind of self-righteous. You don’t have to be a 10 to find people who would want to date you. Not only are most people realistic and willing to date around their own level of attractiveness, but people have different tastes. Lots of the comments talked about being fat… most Americans are overweight! And some people are into it, as evidenced by BBW sites. Some people just aren’t shallow, and those same people who care more about personality than looks are the ones that are going to be most put-off by the kind of attitude in that post. Early 30s isn’t even that old, even if you genuinely (though I doubt that) don’t care about having a romantic relationship, then you don’t have to actively pursue anything, but there is no need to totally rule out the possibility, just stay open at least.
If my uncle can find someone, I think anyone can. When he met his wife, he had no career to speak of, looked 8 months pregnant, had a mullet, had maybe half a dozen teeth, and had the most atrocious facial hair I have ever seen. He also has Asberger’s so social things like dating do not come naturally. But now he is married to a very nice woman.
I consider myself undatable, every move I’ve made has ended in rejection. I’ve tried complimenting girls that I was interested and hoped they would return a conversation. Didn’t work. I’d try flirting with them so they would understand I wanted to date them. Got rejected when I asked for their number. I have no problems putting myself out there as i have asked out hundreds of girls in public places, classes, bars, dating events and meetups. I am completely at a loss.
When I ask myself why. I understand that I have depression because I have no connections in my life. I have nothing to look forward to because I have nobody to do things with.
While your uncle certainly has his disadvantages. Why do my advantages not matter? I have a stable career, I’m typically the most fit guy in the room. I dress nice.
People tell me it’s all about personality and not looks. But I don’t see how it’s possible to make someone laugh all the time, or be confident in everything (especially something with zero experience).
You would think I’m going around insulting people if I’m not shy but also have nothing after going out 3-4 times a week for a year.
I am 32 next month, female virgin and like the OP have never been asked on a single date nor had a bf in my life. I am not a lesbian either. I see other women getting asked on dates and boyfriends, etc. but I don’t really ‘understand’ how to make that happen for myself. Sigh. It is very frustrating. I beleive I might have aspergers but my therapist says I do not. I have been told by people that I am too quiet b/c I am not the type to ask a man out on dates. I do not know how to explain my situation to man if he did ask me on a date and people claim ‘oh these things don’t come up,’ but actually they do. If you start dating someone obviously they are going to be getting ideas as to your past relationships/experience, red flags if you have nothing to show, like me. I have mostly resigned myself to the idea that I waited too late to start these types of things and now no one wants me. Whether I like it or not I am going to die a virgin. ty
I forgot to add: In this age group (30’s, early 40’s) it is expected that you are experienced with sex and will move at a steady pace toward being sexual with a partner. I have no experience with this & don’t think I would be able to move so fast sexually with a person, so again no reason to bother trying to date grown men.
this is very untrue. I’m 34 and can’t meet a guy I’m stunningly pretty very nice humble
and down to earth. Men seem to hate me and r jealous of me where I live. Men
do NOT hit on me and people r shcoked I’m on craigslist searching for
Friends or anyone. I can’t make friends where I live either and women r jealous of me.
I have NEVER been hit on and the few weirdos interested in me hav only
been weirdos. Losers idiots who only want sex and weird people.
Its true that a pretty woman can go on for years not being hit on.
Im writing this from my phone but I can’t get a boyfriend but I look like a
Model/goddess. Very beautiful and men r terrified of me and just make fun of me or pcik
on me. It’s a very possible reality the person giving the advice has no clue
Really. There r many amazing women out there who r single and it makes no sense
ZOMG! I know! us goddess models have it sooooooo hard.
everyone who can’t believe there are late 20s/early 30s somethings out there who’ve never been on a date, well, hello, hello. we do exist. welcome me, another member. i am friendly to everyone. i am kind. i am giving. but the guys never seem to ask me out. they’ll ask other girls that i’d say looks wise are on par with me. but i always get left behind. i don’t understand it at all. i’ve lost my self-esteem over this. maybe i have BDD thinking i am better looking than I am? maybe i’m actually a troll and guys not asking me out is the universe’s way of telling me to get over myself?
Hi Jenn–being pretty doesn’t guarantee you anything. Most guys won’t approach a pretty girl because they fear rejection or they fear you will dump them when someone better comes along. Women trade up. You’re now 38 as I write this, so your looks will begin to fade out, and you must work on being approachable. Hope you find someone. Many folks don’t like pretty people because they resent you. You won the genetic lottery, and they didn’t. I felt that way for years, but I got over it. With cancer I learned to let go of many things. One girl I really wanted years ago died from breast cancer at age 51. 6 girls in my high school class died of breast cancer. So–it could be worse my friend. If where you are is so hostile, move away if possible. I’ve never seen any pretty girl anywhere who lacked offers. What kind of offers she gets depends a lot on how she treats people who come along. Good luck.
I don’t quite understand. The amazing single women out there don’t get hit on?
That doesn’t make much sense to me because a lot of the women I have asked about them being hit on they are tired of it. Maybe they want a certain type of man to ask them out.
Yes, Ash, they would like a guy who fits the parameters of the type of guy they’re attracted to, to match with them on a dating app and then ask them on a date. They’re tired of being hit on by random creeps as they try to do their jobs or go about their business.
im a guy, 30. ive been on like 3 dates. but no ones ever really wanted me. there was one chick i saw for a few months, but she was married. everyone hated me in school and my friends were never really close. my family is so cold to me and my friends would always rather do something else than hang out with me. so i dont see much hope. ive kind of run out of energy to keep getting rejected in all aspects of life. i have to focus on survival instead. so yea we are out there and we are miserable. and no one wants to hang out with a miserable person.
Not to be mean but you’re totally right. No one wants to hang out with a miserable person. And unfortunately no one can make you un-miserable but you. Perhaps its time to focus on making some new friends, developing some new interests and expanding out of your miserable life? It’s definitely not easy but someone who is passionate about life and actively does things is much more attractive than the person you sound like in that comment who just seems tired and self-deprecating.
You sound depressed. Get treatment for your depression (see a doctor to have purely medical and not mental health issues reasons ruled out first) and then a therapist if the Dr. gives you a clean bill of health. Sitting around being bummed isn’t attractive to anyone. Join a club or volunteer, try a new hobby, take a class you are interested in. You may enjoy it, or you may hear about a different group, club, class that sounds even better. You may make a friend even if you don’t meet anyone to date. Friends can lead to fun times with friends and that can sometimes lead to more. And if doesn’t, you’ll be having so much fun it really may not matter much. You’ll learn things, you’ll meet people, you’ll have something to talk about, there’s no down side to it as long as it isn’t a club to eat a ton and be sedentary which isn’t healthy.
Cool guys don’t like me. Nerds do.
Then go out with nerds. They can be awesome. Quit judging an entire group with a blanket stereotype!
Nerds rule! They make the best husbands! My husband is a geek (he’s a cute geek, but he’s a geek.) My best dating advice is to go for the geeks! Economists, scientists, engineers, and computer geeks are all great options!
Also….who the heck reads a saddening tale of lifelong neglect and clicks “like”? I dunno.
I’m a 30-year-old male in the same boat and thought this problem was exclusive to my gender. I wish some of these women had left their contact info.
Someone that had the exact same story and thought the person expressed it well. They are NOT saying “I’m glad.” Also, reply to those comments and ASK for their contact info instead of wishing they’d left it. Or tell them where they can find your profile on a dating website and that you’d be interested in chatting via Bumble or whatever.
My geeky, brilliant, fabulous son has dated 3 women. One he met at computer camp at MIT in high school. He dated her for 2 years, long distance. He went out with a woman in college after that on a couple of dates. He met his fiancée on Bumble. They went to the same university but it was large. Turns out they’d met freshman year (she remembers!) He did not remember, probably because he was dating girlfriend #1 at the time and studying engineering in the honors program at a good school. There was A LOT of studying and there were not a ton of girls in that program. Actually there were only maybe 5 girls in the computer camp at MIT out of maybe 72? And damn if my son didn’t come home with a girlfriend. There were only 6 people in his high school class, so meeting people wasn’t that easy. He also spent a fair amount of time online gaming in his room with guy friends. But he had other interests as well- skiing, mountain biking, volunteering with Engineers Without Borders, climbing, hiking, travel, etc and he and his roommate invited people over and had fun. The group played (and still plays) D&D. His fiancée plays D&D! You don’t need to date a lot of people, you need to make some friends and maybe date a handful of the right people. I took the opposite approach and dated ANYONE that asked me, at least once. Many, many of them were just once. Making friends is the absolute best way to meet other people- their friends!- and have fun, go out, enjoy life and be the kind of person someone else wants to meet. Even if you never meet a girlfriend, you’ll enjoy life more.
And what if the situation is reversed? I am 28 and have never had a girlfriend, never had sex and had one, first and only, kiss in my life… Will you, as girls experienced in relationships, want a relationship with me and think of me as an undiscovered gem or be totally scared off by this fact and consider me someone with whom something must be dreadfully wrong, because no girl before loved me? And those of you who have never had a boyfriend, would it be attractive then to have the first relationship experience with me? Any of you, guys, had a similar story to mine? Any insight you could give me on this would be very valuable.
I’m 26 and this is my life. I’ve never been on a date, never had a boyfriend and I’ve never been approached by a guy. I know like one two guys who have liked me in life and when I stated that I was interested in them, they didn’t respond or just quit talking to me. I wish I knew what to do. I go out and I even engage with guys and they say I’m funny or fun, but none of them ever ask for my number or anything. Usually what happens is they ask about one of my friends and say they’d love for me to introduce them. One of my friends ended up marrying a guy that I was interested in first who asked me to introduce them. I just need advice on what to do!
My perennial advice in this situation is to start online. It’s tailor-made for someone who has trouble clearing that first hurdle (moving from acquaintance or friend to date)… I really believe there are physical and verbal cues that come naturally after you’ve been in a relationship with someone, things that people pick up on that make them see you as desirable in addition to being fun or friendly or whatnot, but you probably won’t develop them spontaneously. So break the ice without those things by meeting someone online (OKC is a good site, as long as you’re choosy about who you contact… and feel free to contact first, by the way! A “Hi, you seem awesome. 🙂 I’m ___, want to chat?” will do the trick), go on your first date, and take it from there. Once you do it the first few times, it’ll seem like a lot less of a puzzle, and you can approach it more matter-of-factly and confidently.
Also, feel free to not tell these guys that you’ve never been in a relationship. They don’t need to know on the first few dates. 🙂 Try to feel confident, and fake it til you make it, as the saying goes.
Dear original poster, I am currently 33 and I am currently in my first relationship. Up to age 32 I was at the “never had a boyfriend” status. Prior to my 1st bf, I would get asked out by customers at work every now and then. However, they were men that were wrong for me. I was always picky and didn’t want anyone too old and no one with children either. I was asked out by men like that or even a few that were married or had a girlfriend! No thank you. Anyway, I didn’t get asked by a man suitable for me until I lost weight. No, really. I lost 2 sizes over a year ago and that is when I felt more comfortable and confident with myself. I was eventually asked out by a gentleman that sparked my interest. I learned he was 13 years older than me, but I didn’t reject him for that(didn’t stop talking to him). He didn’t have children and was married once before. We fell in love with each other and now we are getting married next year. Okay, so I learned that to improve your chances of being asked out…you must be confident with yourself first and have a positive outlook on life. Also, don’t think about dating. Let it go. That is another deal for me when I was asked out by a nice man, I was no longer worried about getting a boyfriend.
Though I’m late I will still give my two cents. To the Dateless woman, Alli_wan and those who are in that situation, I feel your pain. I am 31 and never dated. People who can’t relate to you will talk out their a–es giving you advice on problems they have never been through. That’s like a person who has always been slim, despite drinking soda everyday and not working out, telling an overweight person how to lose weight. I am overweight, but still fairly attractive, feminine, rich social life etc. People always tell me : eat healthy, drink water, exercise. However, my close friends have NO CLUE why I’m overweight since I eat lean and clean (and far healthier than they do), drink plenty of water and exercise on a regular basis. I have been for years. Ask slim people if they do exercise and 90% of them don’t. There are people out there (televised studies, google it) who will never be be overweight no matter what they eat. So people really need to shut up, or at least show some compassion and not tell you to “change your attitude” with a patronizing tone, when “giving advice” on problems they have never had to face.
I’m an optimistic at heart, so much so that sometimes people roll their eyes. Still, I’m realistic but refuse to stay defeated, in any area of my life. Has that helped me in my love life? Not once. You have straight up b-tches having men coming out of woodwork, serial killers and rapists who get married, extreme introverts who have boyfriends and girlfriends, suicidal or cynical people who manage to date, violent men that don’t even hide it who get girls, over 70% of women hate their bodies and overall looks yet among them the vast majority dates and marries, losers and creeps are in relationships, if attitude was the problem none of those people would be in one.
I have been through therapy, the woman did NOT want to believe me. Why? Because as I said before I am fairly attractive, feminine, wears make up, great interpersonal communication skills etc. I used to wonder if I wasn’t crazy, since so many people didn’t want to believe me. Then it hit me, people hardly ever believe what they cant see or have not experienced. To the BEAUTIFUL MODEL who gets no date, I sympathize. I have seen a gorgeous model-type woman treated like a prostitute by men because of her looks, yet she dresses totally decently. She feels cursed, cries a lot, barely goes out, and is depressed. People think a model’s life is a fairy tale because they watch too many hollywood flicks. There are good looking men out there who are so attractive that people assume they are players, and they cant start a serious relationship because serious women avoid them. I have seen some guy complain about that on TV, he was not a womanizer and was sick of women not trusting him for a long term relationship, he lost confidence, his father had the same issue in his youth but eventually got lucky enough to meet a woman who BELIEVED him and became his wife. He felt bad for his son though, school gave him a reputation because jealous people will do just that.
My point is, acting like a know-it-all “change your attitude”, “be more optimistic”, or minimizing people’s pain reducing it to “attitude” when you don’t know JACK about a situation, is being dismissive and just talking out of your a–. I coud say that about ANY problem of yours that you simply can’t solve, though you tried for years if not decades. “BE MORE POSITIVE and call it a day, maybe it’s just the way you think!” Sometimes in life, love is like a lottery, like people who are born in rich families and others in very poor ones. Most people born in poor families will never get rich, and it has nothing to do with optimism or even financial knowledge or “The Secret”. Others are poor in love, neither a choice, nor an attitude issue. All the advice in the world never helped me. Therapy didnt change my life in that area.
Anyway, all you out there who go through this, I love you guys, don’t beat yourselves up, some things are bigger than us. Still, may love come your way, some do eventually get married, like a woman I know who got married in her 40s after a dry love life. Hopefully, it will be us (I hope sooner). But don’t take seriously the patronizing know-it-alls who have no freaking clue what they’re talking about.
Elle.
I’m late also, but I just needed to say I didn’t like the original advice given. It sounded like the writer was being reprimanded for being different. People should put themselves in other people’s shoes first.
I’m 32 and also have never had a boyfriend. I’ve always been thin and reasonably attractive. I’m shy, I’ll admit it, but I’ve never had trouble making friends. Sometimes you’re just unlucky and can’t seem to meet the right person. When I was younger I would only get attention from middle aged men, some even married. Later I got asked out only by two guys and couldn’t find chemistry with either of them. Then last year I met I guy I really liked, went on a couple of dates, but then he had to move to another country because of work.
I feel like I don’t want to settle just because society demands me to be with someone and have babies. I prefer to be single and wait for the right guy than to end up unhappy with someone I don’t like just because society says so. There’s too much pressure on people dating and finding the one and live happily ever after. People need to focus in other things that are equally important. They shouldn’t judge your success on your ability to land a man.
I’d like to find a guy who likes me for me. I also think men want things easy. I’ve met very few guys who don’t expect you to have sex with them right away. Women with standards have it more difficult.
Anyways, I always try to stay positive. I’d say I have pretty good self esteem. I always try to meet new people and look to all the things I have, instead of focusing on the things I don’t. All I can say is never lose hope and keep your eyes open, things that are meant to be will happen and meeting someone special is not something that can be forced.
Well-said, MaryB. I’ve had similar not so great experiences yet also arrived at your conclusions which is to keep living life and letting it be organic. Appreciating what i do have in my life that fulfills me is definitely a booster to my spirit and helps me to hold my head up high, esp. During difficult times.
I can relate to many of the posters here. I’m 61, and I’ve had 5 dates in my life.
I quit in 2001 at age 46. I never could get the numbers to make dating payoff.
I’m still a virgin this late in life, and despite a few chances to have sex, I passed.
The girls just didn’t turn me on. I knew by high school I’d never have any luck or only marginal luck with women. As adult life took over it never changed. It only got worse with age. Confidence and looks help a lot, but I didn’t have money or a car in my prime dating years.–these are 16-30 for most of us. When I had my first date at 35, I was clueless on what to do. I kept trying learning as I went, but the prospect pool was very bad. I didn’t work it steadily since the disappointments were too painful. Finally I quit–I knew no matter what I did I wasn’t going to get anywhere and find the love of my life. You can do everything right in dating or seeking a lover, and never land the one. It’s very hard to find the right person at the right time in your life. For me I usually met the right person at the wrong time. After 55 most men are no longer even datable. Match.com proved that to me. I ran an experiment two years ago.
In 8 months I had 1400 women 50 plus view my profile. I contacted 40, ten responded, and not ONE even wanted to have a cup of coffee. That was it for me. I give up–some of us just aren’t meant to partner up, and I accept it now.
Years ago a woman told me–you’re a nice guy but you aren’t what women are looking for today. You just don’t have what they want. She was so right. Wish I’d listened, it would have saved me time and money down the line.
If you have not had a date by age 21, then you must find out what is going on.
Don’t assume it will get better or change. I’m 61, and I had five dates in my life. All o f them were pretty sad and pathetic. I began at 35, and I was still a virgin. I still am 61, but we’ll get to that in a moment. You can’t wait to be asked out. Start flirting or give guys signals you are interested in them. If you don’t you will be passed over. For women age is your biggest enemy. Sorry, but after 30 the dating pool of quality people declines fast and accelerates over time. If you are shy, insecure, don’t dress well, then work on that. It can be changed. We can’t do much to change our looks, but you can always be positive, friendly, and happy with or without a partner. I gave up trying to date after 46. It was too much of a hassle and what I found left available wasn’t worth having. Online dating works for people under 40, after that it’s real dicey. Moral–do something, don’t ignore the situation. I did that, and I face a lonely and sexless existence for the rest of my life. It is tough to be single as you age up because you will lose many people along the way. Be attractive in the small ways, get out, and be realistic–this is not a happy or loving society. Hate to say it–my best dating prospects of my entire life all came before 25. I had no money, no car etc. until much later. When later came, all my prospects were gone. You don’t have much time left. Get going and work on social life daily–make it part of your To Do list. Good luck. Time goes fast, and if you’re not careful you will end up like me. Don’t let my story be yours.
I think all you arrogant people have a listening problem. The laws of probability are very specific & immutable. If something can happen then eventually it will period. Some dateless by 30 people just got that roll. There is no factual reason why someone couldn’t go to 30 never having dated while wanting too as such it absolutely literally HAS to happen to someone arguing against such a FACT is tantamount to arguing that 1+1 = 3 and then if you don’t think so you’re just not positive enough. No no the answers 2 it does not matter at all how much you like 3 the answers still going to be 2.
Ya, no, just no. It is not just a roll of the dice to not have a single date by 30. Dating isn’t luck, it is putting yourself out there and being available and open to DATING. Your point of view on this was is odd to say the least.
Alli,
Don’t you love it when all people hear from a rational argument is that you’re ugly and need therapy? I totally understand your perspective. Don’t let losers put you down because you offered an opposing position.
I am 34 and still single. However, unlike the OP I have had dates and relationships. It’s just that no single guy has ever asked me out. Every man who has shown any interest in me has turned out to already be dating/engaged/married (and no, they weren’t wearing their rings). I have started to wonder if this is how other women find their partners and I am just too stupid and moral to realise that everyone is in fact cheating except me. I am forever doomed to be the ‘other woman’ without even knowing it.
I was raised in a conservative home and wanted to find someone to settle down with, marry, have children and share a home. Instead I have been left on the shelf and now feel like everyone is taken. I’m not unattractive. I’m not overweight. I’m told I come across as happy, friendly and charismatic. I always wear make up, dress well, and do my best to put people at ease. I’m not stupid and I can hold a conversation with anyone about anything. But single men seem to avoid me like the plague!
I’m not sure if my situation is any better than not having any dates at all. At least if I was perpetually single then I wouldn’t get my hopes up and have my heart broken time and time again. It’s very difficult not to get bitter and paranoid after being hurt so many times. Men consider me fine for an affair, while they have a prettier, sexier, whatever wife back home, but I’m not good enough to ever be the wife.
And no, I don’t continue the relationship once I find out they are taken. I’m not that desperate. But it just makes me wonder if this is what my life will be and what it is that single men are so repulsed by. So far no one has been able to tell me.
“Men consider me fine for an affair, while they have a prettier, sexier, whatever wife back home, but I’m not good enough to ever be the wife. ”
All you know is that they have wives, not that the wives are prettier, sexier, whatever. You almost seem to be saying that if you just measured up a little more, they would drop their wives and marry you.
There are a lot of single men out there. Where are you looking and who are you eliminating for what reason. I can well imagine that married men with a safe/secure home base will seem smoother, less pushy, more confident. Are you rejecting reasonable guys who are your male equivalent.
If you are just dating married men, then you don’t even know what sort of guy you appeal to or what sort of available guy appeals to you. The married guys are choosing you as an available side piece.
You need a better strategy for sorting out and evaluating guys you consider dating/continue to date. You seem easy prey. Get a look at where they live very early on, insist on going on dates to very public places and engage in a little PDA, search the guy on-line, insist on meeting friends and family. If you have been the side piece so many times, then I think you must be very willing to be kept as a hidden-away secret.
I’m 30, and I’ve only been on one date in my entire life 🙁 my entire life my mom had been telling me how I will never find a man because of being overweight (well I’m not, like, fat, but rather curvy?) and when I was younger, I believed that, because I didn’t know any better. Also, I was called fat by boys at school, so it made what my mom said sound true. Also, my parents never told me about relationships, sex etc., so I kind of never thought of that as a teenager.
In my 20s, I saw that all kinds of girls I knew had boyfriends and even got kids, so I figured my weight isn’t the problem. But what is? I mean, I have friends who tell me compliments about my appearance, think that I’m a good friend, that I’m kind, funny, smart, cute, talented and good at my job. But why does nobody like me romantically?
The other things is, whenever I go out and would like to meet someone new, I don’t feel attracted to anyone. I don’t expect to experience love at first sight, but there should be something that appeals to me in a person, I can’t just go and introduce myself to every man in the room, right? So what is wrong with me? I don’t think I have high expectations/beauty standards, I can easily like someone for being left-handed or having funny curly hair. I just look at men and I don’t feel interested, romantically or sexually.
My only experience of intimacy was when I was 27, I think. I met a very cute guy at a bar, we had a great time talking. Two days later he asked me out, we partied all night, then he invited me to his place, we made out, had sex (honestly, I just went along, I liked him, but I didn’t feel sexual arousal), I left, he never called again. He told me how he liked me, how I had a great ass and such, but oh well. So, I mean, there are men that find me attractive, at least that one. Now, what did I do right with this guy? and where are the others?
I’ve read a lot about being asexual/aromantic, and maybe some people are okay with that, but I just feel so fucking lonely. I want to have someone.
Someone that had the exact same story and thought the person expressed it well. They are NOT saying “I’m glad.” Also, reply to those comments and ASK for their contact info instead of wishing they’d left it. Or tell them where they can find your profile on a dating website and that you’d be interested in chatting via Bumble or whatever.
My geeky, brilliant, fabulous son has dated 3 women. One he met at computer camp at MIT in high school. He dated her for 2 years, long distance. He went out with a woman in college after that on a couple of dates. He met his fiancée on Bumble. They went to the same university but it was large. Turns out they’d met freshman year (she remembers!) He did not remember, probably because he was dating girlfriend #1 at the time and studying engineering in the honors program at a good school. There was A LOT of studying and there were not a ton of girls in that program. Actually there were only maybe 5 girls in the computer camp at MIT out of maybe 72? And damn if my son didn’t come home with a girlfriend. There were only 6 people in his high school class, so meeting people wasn’t that easy. He also spent a fair amount of time online gaming in his room with guy friends. But he had other interests as well- skiing, mountain biking, volunteering with Engineers Without Borders, climbing, hiking, travel, etc and he and his roommate invited people over and had fun. The group played (and still plays) D&D. His fiancée plays D&D! You don’t need to date a lot of people, you need to make some friends and maybe date a handful of the right people. I took the opposite approach and dated ANYONE that asked me, at least once. Many, many of them were just once. Making friends is the absolute best way to meet other people- their friends!- and have fun, go out, enjoy life and be the kind of person someone else wants to meet. Even if you never meet a girlfriend, you’ll enjoy life more.