“My Father Voted For Trump And I Don’t Know How to Reconcile This”
He had been saying he wasn’t going to vote, but from listening to him talk I think it is clear that he voted for Trump — because he was the “lesser of the two evils.” What is more evil than the hate Trump was spewing though?
I came home to see my parents, and my dad and I talked about it a little. I think we’re going to avoid talking about it from now on, but it feels hard to look him in the eye. It feels like he threw me, and all the people I love, under the bus. His not voting I could have dealt with, but his actively voting for Trump… I don’t know how to handle.
Do you have any advice or words of wisdom for how to deal with this? — Ashamed of My Dad
A Trump presidency is an assault on civil liberties and personal safety (not to mention, a complete shit-show in the making when it comes to foreign relations). Since the election there have been hundreds of reports of abuse, assault, and harassment, of minorities and women, by jubilant Trump supporters celebrating his victory. A person who voted for Trump is complicit in these acts. He is complicit in the KKK’s victory parade to celebrate the election of Trump, whose campaign platform was grounded in hate. A person who voted for Trump is complicit in the fear that many of us, including children, now feel about having a racist, sexist sociopath leading our country. To have a father (or a mother or other family member or friend) who voted for Trump goes beyond feeling embarrassed and betrayed; it means we failed. We failed to change their minds, to open their hearts, to get them to abandon the compartments they place people in — us, their daughters, their friends — to avoid feeling shitty about being complicit in assaults against us. To have a family member who voted for Trump is a disgrace and a deep shame. But we must love them anyway.
To denounce a person we love who has voted for hate is to be no better than they are. And, frankly, it’s avoiding the responsibility we continue to have — now greater than ever — to convince them that people cannot be compartmentalized, and that their actions have consequences. They may not care about the consequences their actions — like voting for a racist sociopath to lead our country — have on people they don’t know; but they may care about the consequences their actions have on people they do know. So for those of us who have family members who voted for Trump, it’s our responsibility to keep those family members abreast of the horror they are complicit in and the effects that horror has on people they know and love. It is your responsibility, it is our responsibility, to give voice to the oppressed for those who are complicit in oppressing them. Who better to deliver the message than YOU, someone your father loves and, presumably, respects and wants the best for?
Seeing an opportunity to thoughtfully engage and move toward changing minds and opening hearts doesn’t lessen the anguish you must feel in knowing your father voted for a monster — one who brags about sexually assaulting women. But it should give you a sense of purpose in maintaining a close relationship with your dad beyond the family ties and personal history you share, and that motivation may help in how you reconcile your love for your father with the pain and horror he is complicit in. It may also help in remembering that your experience is not his. He doesn’t know, and he’s never had to think about, what it’s like to be a woman or person of color or an LGBQT person in this country. He has never had to worry about being raped on the way to his car after a late shift at work or being stopped and frisked and even killed because of the color of his skin, or having to fight for the right to marry whom he loves, or knowing that his grandparents were sent to concentration camps for being the same religion he is — a faith that will be under attack in our new administration (Trump just named a known anti-semite as his top advisor). He doesn’t think about those very real fears and anxieties because he’s never had to. Make him think about it now. Because he just helped elect a man who normalizes hate and who emboldens people to grab women by the pussy because he himself bragged about doing just that. Make him think about what that means.
At the same time, you have the opportunity to think about (and even discuss) your father’s experiences that motivated him to vote for Trump. I don’t doubt that there are reasons that are very important to people to have voted for him: a platform strong on gun rights and anti-abortion appealed to some. The idea of fewer taxes appealed to many. A hatred and distrust for Hillary (and I’m sorry, but using a private email server is not anywhere close to the level of crimes and immoral acts Trump has committed). And, simply, a desire for “change” and being suckered into believing Trump’s promise to bring it. Some of these are more valid reasons than other (though I certainly don’t agree with all of them) and maybe talking to your father about his particular reasons might help you understand his vote. I know that even a reason other than explicit misogyny and racism doesn’t begin to erase the anguish you feel right now, and you are right to feel it. But instead of ignoring it and avoiding the topic with your dad, which may help preserve your relationship but does NOTHING to preserve the rights of others, speak up. Use it as a motivating force to appeal to the good in your father and maybe, just maybe, in the next election he will vote with the voice of the oppressed in his ear because you had the courage to share it.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
Wendy – longtime lurker here. This was beautifully and thoughtfully written, and so timely as I’ve been going back and forth with my mom over the past week about her vote for Trump too. Thanks for writing how I’ve been feeling, and how I expect many of us have been feeling, so eloquently.
I’m in the same boat– a few of my extended family voted for him and it was heartbreaking when I found out. Wendy, reading your response to this helped. Especially considering that Thanksgiving is already next week (!) and I will see those relatives then. So thank you for this.
Same boat here, but it’s my husband’s parents. I take solace that my brother-in-law and his wife were also ardent HRC supporters, so we will have back up at the holidays.
I honestly don’t know why they would vote for Trump, but I do know they are Faux News junkies and honestly don’t seem to understand how deep in bed with the alt-right, anti-woman, anti-gay crowd that Trump is. A lot of the people from my hometown on my FB feed are the same way. They’re genuinely shocked that people are freaking out.
Sure, some Trump people are full stop racist, misogynistic and bigoted fucks. But, I think that for a lot of (and especially older) white people in middle America who aren’t really around minorities or gay people or people of different faiths, they just don’t appreciate those people’s realities. Because it won’t happen to them, they see everything through their own lense of “Of course that’s not going to happen here. This is America!” What I have found encouraging (and maybe I’m grasping) is that A LOT of those people are vowing to protest loudly should the things we fear come to pass. Even people who I went to HS with who at e hard core rednecks. Whether that happens remains to be seen, but, because Fox (and CNN and many others) “normalized” Trump’s hateful views, I think that a lot of people who voted for him thought of him as a typical Republican. They just didn’t see how not normal he is or have access to an honest view of it.
Wendy is dead on that we should point it out to them every chance we get. Not patronizingly or disparagingly, but we need to cut through the normalizing noise and not let anyone get complacent.
As one who still sees Trump’s basic message as more racist/sexist/xenophobic than economic, I think you do need an intense talk with your father. I expect he is not as content with your immigrant, inter-racial boyfriend as he pretends to be. I suspect he is just waiting for you to tire of your bf and break up. Many parents assume that most young romances die and that if they oppose a bf it will only drive the young couple closer together. It is very hard to imagine your father seeing you in a serious, happy relationship with your bf, which he thought might well last long-term, to be content with that relationship, and to also vote for Trump. That just doesn’t compute. “I like my daughter’s bf, but I want the blankety-blank deported out of my country.” Nope, those two thoughts cannot co-exist in one mind.
His first excuse will be “I don’t think he’ll actually do half the things he said he will.” That’s bogus. Demand specifics. What about Trump did he find so appealing.
I agree with much of what you’ve said, but I do know people who voted for Trump who I would not consider racist or have issues with minorities, so I do believe those things could co-exist.
This is one of those rare situations where I’m not going to censor myself, and I really and sincerely apologize in advance for any offense it causes anyone who disagrees with my position. But, truly, Wendy, I think you’re letting your hatred of Trump cloud the kind of advice you give on this particular issue. I don’t think your stance is WRONG; I just think that it’s inconsistent with similar letters you’ve posted here when someone has written in saying “My [family member] has [done something I find morally offensive]. What do I do?” In those other letters, it’s been my recollection that your response has been something along the lines of “THEY made the decision, not you. YOU don’t have to do anything about it. YOU can accept it or not accept it, but it’s not your place to pass judgment on them for what they did.”
Now, I grant you that (a) Trump is easy to dislike (I don’t like him being President either), and (b) a presidency has more power over a third party’s everyday life than most other choices. But the issue is as much that we NOTICE the moral and character flaws of our president than that they exist. JFK was a beloved president, and he abused opiods and openly cheated on his wife with anything with a vagina (to say nothing of the fact that the Kennedy money came almost primarily from bootlegging liquor during prohibition.) FDR was a violent alcoholic, and with his physical disabilities he NEVER could have gotten elected in today’s media cycle. Nixon isn’t beloved, I admit, but let’s not minimize the fact that he BROKE INTO THE DNC, and then obstructed justice. And Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon 5 minutes after he got into office. So, really, if you can name a politician who hasn’t done something morally disgusting since maybe Harry Truman, I’d be shocked.
So, LW, what do you do with this? Nothing, in my opinion. Don’t talk about politics with them. If they bring it up, express that you’re upset that Trump got elected and further discussion just upsets you more, and your father — whom you’ve painted as someone who does care about you personally despite his vote — is likely to drop the subject. Unfortunately, it’s fairly common to have one position on a micro-political level (i.e., in the people he immediately interacts with, like your boyfriend and your friends) and another on a macro-political level (i.e., voting for Trump’s policies). “Educating” him is, in my opinion, at risk of sounding condescending and spurring a closed-minded “I’ve lived longer than you and know more” argument from him, which is just going to make things worse. He doesn’t need to change the world to be a good husband and father; he has to love and support YOU and YOUR choices, and if he wants to mentally distinguish it in whatever way he so chooses from his national vote so be it. Just remember that the wounds are still fresh because it’s been less than a week. Remember that not everything politicians say gets implemented. Remember that presidents regularly take positions completely opposite from where they claim to stand (ex: Bill Clinton and DOMA). And remember that you can love your father and still disagree with him. If you really have energy about this that needs to be discharged, channel it into organizations and causes that oppose Trump’s policies; voting matters, but boots on the ground matter even more.
ETA (because I forgot about this until after I replied): Technically, Truman’s the one who gave the order to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, so you could even argue he was morally offensive despite being an otherwise tame personality.
“He may have voted for someone who has openly discussed oppressing people, but he himself isn’t complicit because he cast one vote.”
Yes, he is. Anyone who upped the count for Trump basically said, “My needs and feelings are more important than anyone else’s, so be damned.”
And I’m saying that as the Jewish mother of an LGBTQ young adult.
I will not remain silent in the face of oppression, especially if the person complicit in the oppression is someone I know and love for whom I, more than some stranger, may hold some power of persuasion and window into the lives of those who are oppressed.
If you think my advice in this letter is inconsistent with other advice I’ve given, it’s because electing a raving mad, sociopathic, racist, sexist, xenophobic lunatic is unprecedented in the modern history of the US and all bets are off. It is not and cannot simply be business as usual.
Setting aside the argument as to whether we have, in fact, elected someone as terrible as Trump in the past (because I think Nixon was every bit as bad as Trump is but wasn’t as well-covered), our disagreement is to the second line of your first sentence. Her father isn’t oppressing anyone. He may have voted for someone who has openly discussed oppressing people, but he himself isn’t complicit because he cast one vote. And we have no evidence this LW has any real insight into the issues her friends face simply because they’re her friends. That’s not a dig at her, mind you; it’s just a fact, unless there’s part of the letter you omitted for space reasons. Having black friends doesn’t mean you know what it’s like to be black; having gay friends doesn’t mean you know what it’s like to be gay. And — since the distinctions drawn in the letter lead me to reasonably infer that she is neither black nor gay nor an immediate immigrant — I’m not sure White America is really the right group to be lecturing other White Americans as to what other people’s struggles are. It comes off as condescending. And, I mean, I have to do it every day, and even I can’t help sounding that way sometimes.
As I said in response to another comment below, let’s take the LW’s letter at face value and assume her father genuinely cares about her feelings. When she says the topic upsets her, he either won’t care (so the issue is him not caring about her feelings) or he’ll care and try to make her feel better, and in doing so the discussion will occur organically. I’m not suggesting it never happen, but just that she not be the one to initiate it. If he asks her to explain her objections, then she should absolutely let it rip. But there’s been this undercurrent that anyone who votes for a monster is themselves a monster, and it’s not fair to paint Trump supporters with a broad brush while at the same time saying “Not all illegal immigrants are lazy!” or “Not all Muslims are terrorists!” People aren’t black or white; they’re a rainbow of colors and contradictions, and we need to recognize that the part of him that loves her and her friends doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive to the part that voted for Trump.
@GuyFriday, she may not know what it’s like to be black or gay, but being a woman she certainly has a window into what it must be like. We deal with discrimination, micro-aggressions, people making assumptions about us, about how we think and behave, what we’re capable of, etc. I don’t mean to offend either, but maybe you should follow your own advice and not assume you understand how this is affecting women, and refrain from telling us how to react.
RedRover: Amen! The LW begins here letter saying that as a woman, she feels betrayed that her father would vote for a man who: “clearly sees me as “less than” — someone who thinks women are there to grab and touch and lord over without consequences. It feels like, on some level, he has to be able to accept that behavior to have voted for him. It’s a betrayal to me […].”
And GuyFriday: saying that all immigrants are lazy is not the same as arguing that everyone who voted for Trump did so because his being a sexist, racist bigot wasn’t a deal-breaker. One is a gross generalization and the other is truth.
All of the moral failings you mentioned had very little effect on everyday people’s lives. When your moral failing is that you advocate for violence against people who disagree with you, support white supremacy, and your supporters use your rhetoric to justify violence and harassment of other people, that’s a whole other story.
I’m not sure I agree, Guy Friday, but thanks for your thoughts.
I’ve been dealing with a situation similar to this LW. I haven’t spoken to my parents since the election and I have no idea what I’ll say to them when I do. I’ve often disagreed with my parents on things like politics, social justice, reproductive rights, gay rights, etc. And up to now, my approach to our relationship has been similar to what you described: say nothing, change the subject, leave this part of my thoughts and life out of our relationship.
To be honest, it’s a tactic that has worked so far. We get along, we don’t argue, our conversations are warm but sort of shallow. But it wears on me–constantly keeping my mouth shut, not telling them how I feel, not explaining how their beliefs hurt (directly and indirectly at times).
I’m sorry you’ve been dealing with that. Out of curiosity — and of course you’re under no obligation to answer! — do their positions on things like reproductive rights extend to you personally? Put another way, are they saying “We’re anti-abortion, but if you needed to get one we’d support you 100% through the process because you’re our child and we love you”? Because if they are, again, that sucks and I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. But if they’re not — as it sounds like the LW’s father isn’t, if you take the letter at face value — I think it’s an example of what I was unofficially terming micro- and macro-politics.
I see a lot of people who hold social positions they themselves would never apply to their immediate circle. Some call them hypocrites. Personally, I think it’s a little more complex than that. I think it’s easier to apply abstract principles to people you don’t know than people you do. For example, I can see someone thinking illegal Mexican immigration is bad but would give a pass to their hard-working illegal Mexican immigrant neighbor who is always happy to buy the 6-pack when they watch the NFL on Sundays. And, yes, ideally we as a society would be singularly-principled, but it doesn’t work that way, and we’re all hypocrites in some way or form.
I’m not advocating bottling up pain. I’m advocating the LW not blow up at her father. If she states she’s upset discussing it, he’s either going to know why and not follow up on that comment (in which case the issue is more that he doesn’t care about her feelings, not who he voted for), or he’s going to try to talk it out and heal some of her pain somehow (in which case by all means talk to him about it). But aside from voting for Trump and what that carries, it doesn’t sound as though the LW’s father is indifferent to her pain, so I’m just suggesting she give him the benefit of the doubt on that one front and assume he wasn’t trying to offend her in voting.
Sorry. I meant to say “If they AREN’T, that sucks.” Didn’t we used to have editing on this?
@GuyFriday, this is a very good thought: “it doesn’t sound as though the LW’s father is indifferent to her pain, so I’m just suggesting she give him the benefit of the doubt on that one front and assume he wasn’t trying to offend her in voting.” Even if another’s person does impact you on a personal level, it could be that that was not their intention.
As for my own parents, they are indeed anti-abortion. I have seen their reaction when they saw another female family member was considering an abortion. I think they would characterize their actions in response as “supportive” but I definitely would not. Instead of giving her unconditional love and space to make the decision for herself, they interfered and pressured her to have the baby. She ended up having an abortion, and they acted deeply disappointed. But they are not so lacking in empathy that they would cut off the relationship or say cruel things (such as, “You’re a baby killer, you’re going to hell.”)
My parents aren’t mean and do tend to treat people with respect, but they are also moral purists (this is due to the fact that they’re devout non-denominational Christians). They tend to see issues like abortion as black and white. If you try to argue that there are moral gray areas, they will reject that. For example, I believe they think abortion is wrong in all cases, even rape and incest.
So this is where things get confusing for me. If abortion is a black and white issue, why isn’t sexual assault? Or racism? Or religious discrimination? They taught me that “sexual immorality” (sex before marriage, cheating on your spouse, etc.) is sinful, but they voted for a candidate who gropes women, cheats on his wife, talks about women like they are objects. Why isn’t this a black and white issue for them?
@Guy Friday, I’m physically, literally sick (as in nausea, headache, vomiting). Here is what I can accept; I can’t wipe clean another person’s entire internal map or the way they are experiencing their life, morals, past, or present. I ask for understanding that I can’t change my morals and for me, some of this is about that. Not ideological or political-leanings, but my morals and internal construction.
Thumbs up for Guy Friday’s comment.
My mom voted for Trump, apparently because she wanted “conservative judges appointed to the supreme court, not judges that won’t follow the law”. I feel like the big problem here is the whole R vs D ridiculousness, where people are so entrenched in one ideology they simply can’t accept anything from the other side. It’s a little different this year because Trump is not at all a good person, but I think a lot of people were voting more for their party, thinking that they need to have a Republican in the white house, and we’re all doomed if a Democrat gets elected. At least, that’s what I tell myself to make me accept most of my family voting for Trump. They were too focused on the party, and ignored the disaster that was the candidate.
It’s more than “a little different this year.” Electing a racist, sexist raving lunatic as president is unprecedented. This goes well beyond a difference of ideology between republicans and democrats. I have republican family members and I’ve never before been angry about the way I assume they vote in every election. I can accept republicans voting for republicans. Most republicans, despite having views I don’t agree with, are good and decent people. Trump, however, is a monster. He ran a platform based on hateful rhetoric and made campaign promises that would/will endanger a huge percentage of our population. Already, we are seeing hundreds of acts and crimes of hate, tied to Trump, committed in the days since the election. People who voted for him can’t be surprised by this. Everything in his campaign pointed to this, including the appointment of a known anti-Semite to one of the most powerful positions in our government. People who voted for Trump were either willfully ignorant because they didn’t want to think about this outcome, or they thought about it and decided they didn’t care. If you have family who voted for Trump, you have family who are complicit in the hate, simple as that.
Even normal Republicans think he’s a monster. When will those of you who voted for him become aware of what a monster he is? Never? You’ll just keep repeating the mantra that “he’s normal, this is fine, I am not racist, I am not sexist, I am not xenophobic,” because if you don’t keep telling yourself that, your mind will explode?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-told-conservatives-to-work-for-trump-one-talk-with-his-team-changed-my-mind/2016/11/15/f02e1fac-ab7c-11e6-977a-1030f822fc35_story.html?utm_term=.840b7c17bb7b
And if you don’t want to read a long article from a real newspaper, here’s the gist, from a Republican again, remember:
“My bottom line: Conservative political types should not volunteer to serve in this administration, at least for now. They would probably have to make excuses for things that are inexcusable and defend people who are indefensible. ”
Hello!
My entire family voted for Trump (they’re teachers, nurses, managers, Armed Service personnel, and State workers — so not one big basket of deplorables). Some of my coworkers voted for Trump (I work in a college where you need a Master’s for most positions, so they’re educated). Some of my friends and church family members voted for Trump (they’re kind hearted, charitable and non-bigoted).
I voted for Trump. What have I got to reconcile for?
The fact that your vote shows you’re ok with racism, sexism, hate crimes, maybe?
YOU may not be racist, but for you (and all you family), racism was not a deal-breaker when it came to electing our president.
Ha ha, jinx Wendy.
I read someone’s tweet or meme that put it pretty clearly for me, people who voted for Trump may not be sexist, racist, and bigoted…but it’s not a deal breaker for them and it was for all of us who didn’t vote for him. Your sense of morals is different than mine. I care about the actual citizens in this country. And I actual think anyone who believes anything Trump promised as fast as economic help is a missing something and will be sorely disappointed. He’s never served anyone but himself.
Also, can we talk about how he literally has zero experience and also his hair trigger temper that is definitely going to put our entire country at risk, if not the world. But great job, people! I’m glad you voted FOR all those things!
Ugh. Can’t edit.
Here’s what infuriates me. Most people who voted for Trump have been voting Republican for decades. They’ve been voting in the people who deregulate, cut social programs, make it impossible to form unions, give corporations personhood, and on and on. Now those policies have come back to bite them in the ass. They’re angry. They feel like no one’s listening, no one’s helping them, the white men are being ignored.
Then Trump comes along and holds up a bunch of targets, and they just fucken go for them. Oh, yeah, it’s all the Mexicans’ fault! It’s the Muslims’ fault! It couldn’t possibly be their fault, voting against their own interest time and time and time again, deporting Mexicans isn’t going to bring jobs back from China. Taking away gay rights and abortions isn’t going to un-automate the factories. But at least they’ve got someone to blame, and it just feels so good to grind people under their boot heels. It’s infuriating.
https://medium.com/@elizabethgrattan/the-decent-white-woman-who-voted-for-trump-ffcd4eedf90d#.khisbkbz3
Good one. I just don’t buy it either, that they were sheltered and didn’t know. Everyone knew. It was impossible not to. Again – all of you who voted for Trump knew what he stood for. You just rationalized it away. You. Knew. You made a conscious decision that people unlike you don’t matter. You did this. I hope you’re getting woke now, but that seems unlikely.
Half the country voted for Trump. You have two choices:
1. Let it go. You want to wallow in your feelings, so don’t talk about the election with your father (or any other friends and family who are silent on the matter, because that means they voted for Trump. They just don’t speak up).
2. Try to think about why said voters chose Trump. It may give you peace of mind to understand their reasons, which range from concerns about national security to increasingly expensive Obamacare to dissatisfaction with the status quo to economics to simply believing Hillary is a lying crook. Most people didn’t vote for Trump because they “hate” anyone in particular. It’s so narrow-minded and frankly moronic to believe that.
And it’s narrow-minded and frankly moronic not to realize the other implications of trump–namely the racism, sexism, anti-semitic nature that he’s made it okay. The amount of crimes by HIS supporters and his lack of action against it…it’s on ALL trump supporters. But feel free to live in a delusional world. You vote him in, you vote EVERYTHING of his in.
They might not ‘hate’ anyone. But, they decided that those economic policies were worth putting in to office someone who was against lgbtq rights (Although Trump now says he’s not going to touching that, we’ll see, Pence has a much different track record and he chose him for office), someone who wants to limit women’s access to safe abortions (And perpetuating the cycle of poverty. If the rights in regards to abortions go back to states there will be many who cannot get the care they want or need in their state.) and someone who has created a divide with the way he speaks about Muslims and Mexican Americans specifically. Someone above mentioned it seems like it seems like it is because they are so limited in their interaction with people who aren’t straight, white and Christian they cannot even begin to put themselves in the shoes of someone who is not.
Even if you disagree with the other side it’s odd that you can’t see why they might be upset. We’ve just gone through 8 years of Thanks Obama. Obviously the other side is used to speaking out when upset. There are many people worried about what policies he might put in to place that might limit their rights. Kind of like the other side freaked out when someone mentioned stricter gun control (although not the same at all). And that does not mention the fact that he has so far made it seem that he does not believe in climate change or want to put the resources necessary towards research in regards to it.
Ahh goodness so many typos.
Oh, I understand why the other side is upset. It’s the same every election, when each side paints the other as Hitler and their own candidate as The One Who Can Defeat Hitler.
It’s tired.
Yes, but so rarely can you replace Jew with Muslim and basically have the same word-for-word text. Nothing has come close to this in recent elections.
Yeah…. no, this isn’t the same as any other election. Never has the electoral system put someone in office who never served in any government office or the military; is openly misogynistic, xenophobic, authoritarian, has tragically fragile self esteem, and lacks self control. Not to mention on trial for fraud and would be on trial for child rape if his accuser hadn’t withdrawn her case due to death threats. While literally the most qualified candidate in history, who is all about standing up for human rights, wins the popular vote and loses the election. Nothing about this is normal, and people need to stop trying to normalize it.
Is it narrow minded and moronic to fear that my Arab non-American brother might not get the visa he re-applies for next year (after having lived in the US for over half his life) because he is an Arab man in his late 20s that has an engineering degree and comes from a conservative Muslim country? Just because Trump’s promised polices may not affect you that doesn’t mean they don’t affect millions of other Americans and not just by making their health insurance more expensive (health insurance that would not have existed pre-Obama).
Don’t be dismissive and mocking of people’s real fears. That to me narrow-minded and callous.
Lol these people believe Hilary is a lying crook, when she was — cleared of all charges, multiple times, Comey is a Trump supporter, she used the same server as Colin Powell, GW Bush “lost” thousands of emails specifically relating to America’s involvement in the Iraq War , Trump is currently facing trial for verified fraud of millions of $$ for his Trump University scam… is in bed with god knows who (only president since it was required, to not release his taxes), is already attempting to silence the media, and has verbally admitted to sexually assaulting women, not to mention the charges that were pressed against him by his first wife I believe.
Also have any of these people with such a hard on for his “economic” policies even read his tax plan, my guess is they have not.
His first wife didn’t press charges, she described the time he raped her while under oath during their divorce case. It was a 13-year-old girl who actually accused him of rape and tried to bring him to court, but she’s since withdrawn the allegations due to death threats.
Yeah, democratic system means accepting that others think and vote differently. I can’t understand how one can vote for Trump, but well, millions did, alas. If all the concerned families had to hate each other for that, his kind of hate politics would have truly won everywhere.
State clearly that your opinions differ, but don’t treat your dad as if he had committed a crime. So far, he has just voted. And when the unavoidable disappointment or problems arise, you can also remind him that he voted for this man, for such a man.
This is exactly what I intend to do.
My sister and I (and her husband and my fiance) voted for Hillary. The rest of my immediate family voted for Trump, as well as much of my extended family. My sister and I asked mom to tell dad that politics are completely off limits at Thanksgiving since it’s still to raw. After that, it’s fair game.
And when the problems eventually arise, I will 100% remind them that they did this.
Eventually arise? The problems have already arisen: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/11/11/over-200-incidents-hateful-harassment-and-intimidation-election-day
It’s time to remind them that they did this.
Swastikas spray painted in dorm rooms doors at a university in Manhattan. Swastikas spray painted on the sidewalk about a mile from where I live. I just ran into a friend who manages a restaurant in Manhattan and he said an older whit guy got drunk in the middle of the afternoon at his restaurant yesterday and started screaming: “Trump won — get all the women outta here! Trump won!”
Problems have already arisen. These are not and will not be isolated events. Tell your family who voted for Trump that they are complicit in these acts. They didn’t care enough to withhold their vote for a raging bigot so why should they enjoy the comfort of silence as a result? Their actions have consequences, and if they don’t see the consequences because it’s not their experience, make them see it. This is not the time to be silent.
It’s happening in Canada now too. Someone’s been posting fliers around my city advertising a white power movement and asking white people to join if they’re sick of immigrants. Yeah.
The anti-Hillary/anti-Clinton messaging was so strong, that even up here in Canada, most of the (conservative) older folk that I talk to say ‘well, the Americans had to choose between two crappy choices. Two horrible people.”
I’m so tired of saying “What Hillary has done is on par with most politicians and on some measure’s she’s better. However, I don’t see how you can say being a racist, sexist bigot is on par with these things.” I get shot down right away. It’s really tiring. And then I’m told I watch too much ‘left leaning liberal media who wanted to wipe Hillary’s faults under the rug”. In fact, all of her faults, all of them had a big fat spotlight shone on them. Trust me, nobody was unaware. But in comparison, I can’t even see Trump on the same level. Trump barely ran on a political platform with strong ideas and plan laid out.
I’m so tired of people sweeping misogyny (and racism) under the rug. So. Freaking. Tired.
If anything, this election has shown just how many people hold racist/misogynistic/xenophobic attitudes just under the surface and they have now been given license to let loose. It’s show me just how big the beast is that we are fighting.
But as for the OP- I think you get one shot to say ‘It really hurts me to see you supporting a man who holds such disgusting beliefs about me, my boyfriend, and my friends. It hurts me to see that to you, this issues did not take precedence in your mind when you voted.” But at the same time, the people we love are not perfect. And you have just seen another flaw. But I’m with GuyFriday on his last paragraph of advice.
I like this a lot: “It really hurts me to see you supporting a man who holds such disgusting beliefs about me, my boyfriend, and my friends. It hurts me to see that to you, this issues did not take precedence in your mind when you voted.”
It focuses on how a vote for Trump directly affects YOU–it’s an emotional argument that can’t easily be disregarded. I don’t think there’s much to be gained by engaging in a political argument (Hilary is corrupt! No, she’s not! Trump is racist! No, he’s not!) because it immediately puts people on the defensive. But I think if your family and friends care about you, they’ll at least care enough to hear about why you’re hurting.
Thank you for this! I also really like this phrasing. After that, I’ll just have to mention all of the bad things to come….
I have many family members, co-workers and friends who voted for Trump. It really bothers me, for sure. But I refuse to believe that they are all terrible people. Through conversations, I’m learning they were not thinking about the consequences of their vote all the way through. A number of them did not really pay close attention to his campaign, the news, or watch the debates. They are not directly impacted by racism. They are not overtly concerned with misogyny or women’s rights, because they’ve never had to be. A good number of them genuinely believe that Hillary Clinton is crooked, and are fed up with politicians in general. What they did do, however, without active malintent, was endorse a candidate who stoked the flames of hatred, racism, bigotry, sexism and misogyny in this country in order to win a presidency, a person who himself has exhibited a breathtaking lack of character and goodwill. What I will do now is participate in the debate, without dismissing people or their opinion, no matter how much I may disagree with it, no matter how against it I am morally. I will not cut people down. I will engage. I will engage with people, with organizations and with causes. I will be the kind of person I want to see other people being, to the best of my ability. And let me tell you, that’s really effing hard and I don’t know how I will do that. But I’m damn sure going for it.
I hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s a cop-out to say they were unaware, not paying attention. How could that be? They simply ignored huge parts of his narrative, which shows that the things he was saying about minorities, immigrants, women, disabled people, LGBQT etc didn’t bother them. They were ok with all that.
I can get that the “I wasn’t paying attention” term is a cop-out answer, because I don’t know how in the world we live in now that you could miss this stuff. I think that they have never been impacted by it and therefore they don’t empathize, is more the point. And that is the work to do – not stop putting it in front of people that this IS happening, it IS real, and it can’t be denied.
I think Smalls is right – largely, they just filtered through it as something that doesn’t matter to them. I also think that the television news networks did a terrible job of pointing out how untrue, horrible and blatant his racism, misogyny and bigotry were. They made it seem equivalent to Hillary’s emails, which is, fucking ridiculous, but for many people, especially those in the red state bubble, they see it as the same due to the presentation.
Also, several people that I talked to don’t believe he’ll do all the “crazy” (their words) things that he’s said he would do, like banning Muslims or building the wall. They are really bothered that people think they are racist or sexist, or that they are against LGBQT people. They voted the issues that they care about: taxes, immigration, healthcare – and they just hope and pray that he’ll bring “good people” on board (which, as we’re seeing, is not happening) to put a stop to the more outrageous proposals. I’ve been pointing out the cost of such a strategy in any way that I can.
But how is objecting to voting for Trump cutting people down? The LW didn’t say my dad is a racist, uneducated deplorable. She asked Wendy for advice on how to deal with his vote; a vote she vehemently disagreed with on human rights grounds. Questioning his ethics around human rights is not dismissing him, it’s opening a dialogue. I am very tired of people being told to get over it and don’t object. That’s part of what got us here in the first place!
Sorry, I might not have been clear what I was saying in my post! I wasn’t trying to imply that the LW would be cutting her father down by objecting. And I absolutely don’t think people should be silent at ALL, or get over it (how could we possibly get over it?). I also don’t think her father is a “deplorable” – like I said in my original post, most people just did not think through the consequences of their vote.
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I was just sharing my stance on how to engage as a possible view (i.e. not attacking people when opening that dialogue). Hope that clarifies!
Eh, I went through this with W — twice. Fortunately, Sarah Palin and the war to nowhere pretty much KILLED the Republican Party for both my folks. They were very much fans — and voters — of Obama. And now voted for HRC. Hell, they were far more enthusiastic than me!
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The way I got through the W years was to just civilly debate them about politics — my dad and I both LOVE to argue and so that was actually fun. Hell, I think we rather miss our epic battles. It’s awfully boring just sitting around talking about how awful everybody on the Republican side did in the debates, for example. But any way, yeah. Sure. Fight a bit about it. Debate. Then MOVE on and don’t take it personally. Just don’t.
Great advice actually, in your last sentence @bittergaymark. My sister (HRC supporter through and through) and my dad (Super conservative, leaned on the side of Trump because he disliked HRC) have it OUT with each other and will sit there and debate. But they are very respectful to each other always, and at the end of the day, nobodys mind has been changed but they still appreciate and love and support one another. How it has to happen I think.
Huh? Nobody has suggested not accepting the rule of law, although there has been one, silly IMHO, suggestion that the electoral college might be persuaded to reject Trump — that still is rule of law, you know, antiquated as the electors are, they are given a free vote, I just doubt they would ever use it.
Trump is the guy who spent 7 years leading the birther challenge to Obama’s legitimacy as president. That would be the president who twice got more votes than Trump did. I think the sad anti-Trumps have been far more graceful than Trump and the other birthers ever were.
I saw your first comment & It wasn’t really that “polite” . …
Your use of the term marginalized here is incorrect and shows a great deal about your understanding of the issues that real marginalized populations face.
Technically, Clinton got over half of the popular vote, so by your logic….more people are “marginalized” by the outcome of the election.
Clinton isn’t the one who said she’d potentially contest the election results if she lost….Trump did. So again, your rule of law logic is flawed (in addition to what the others said above).
So good to know that you think comments about blatant and outright sexism, xenophobia and racism (based on real things Trump and said and done) are boring/shallow/uninteresting.
I’m not sure what you mean here. Are you saying people should just shut it for the next 4 years? People are allowed to be upset, and to worry about how a Trump presidency will impact their lives and the country.
While there are a small handful of people contesting the legitimacy of Trump’s win (just like there were a small handful of people contesting the legitimacy Presidency – including the President-elect), MOST people accept the results of the election.
But the over half that voted for Clinton are allowed to feel sad and despondent and fearful about what his presidency will mean. Just as many (you – perhaps?) were sad and despondent and fearful about an Obama presidency.
Even the protesters, most are not saying they disbelief the results of the election, they are registering their discontent and using the protests as catharsis and a way to communicate that “Hey, you won the electoral college but you don’t have a mandate here. More than half of voters didn’t vote for you and they are pissed off. You now represent them too, so tread appropriately.”
I haven’t heard any HRC or Dems demand a recount or say that the fix was in. I have seen plenty of articles about how the republican controlled districts removed voters from the rolls and how that may have affected the outcomes, but no one is challenging the win itself.
What people are challenging is that their friends and neighbors have voted someone who has gone on record:
Making fun of the disabled
Harassing and assaulting women
Claiming that an entire religion should be wiped out
Claiming that most Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers
Claiming women should be punished if they get an abortion
Suggesting that the government should control the press or otherwise limit it’s abilities to report
Screwing over small business owners
Used tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes for decades then had the temerity to put in false claims for damages for his country club (as in your tax dollars)
Operating a fake charity
So when this is acceptable in your leader, it leads me to believe that you think this is acceptable overall.
Read this article this morning:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/people-are-donating-to-planned-parenthood-in-mike-pences-name_us_5829c5f3e4b02d21bbc97d12
Perhaps you should do similar for dear old dad’s Christmas present.
I’m in a similar boat, but less conflicted. I already knew that my dad and some other relatives are racist and not empathetic to other people’s lives. He’s also not a No. 1 dad (not to say that he’s bad, but he’s not a super warm fuzzy person), so I never considered him to be part of my support system or whatever. So, while I get it, I also am not having issues balancing his good versus his bad.
I am expecting, though, some of my rabidly bigoted relatives to try to needle me at Christmas, and I’m not one to not respond, so then I’ll respond and then get scolded for talking about politics. So, Merry Christmas to me!
Anyway, no real advice here, but it sounds like you find your dad to be a loving person, so I don’t think having a calm, mature conversation with him one day about each of your views is a bad thing. Asking him why he believes what he believes is not a bad start.
Use SpaceySteph’s idea: Create a list of your relatives in your phone. For ever teasing from your relatives put a mark. Multiply the number of marks by $1 or $5 and make a donation in their name to a charity of your choice that would irk the crap out of them.
Excellent choices include ACLU, NARAL, PP, ADL, Southern Poverty Law Center, NAACP
Does anyone know of a good environmental nonprofit? I want to request folks make a donation in lieu of Christmas presents this year, and while MY preference would be Planned Parenthood, I know that my husband’s Catholic family (the source of said Christmas presents) would not be comfortable. They aren’t Trump supporters so I’m not trying to alienate them, I just don’t need more *things* and would rather do some good. I think we could all get behind the environmental cause, but not sure what to recommend.
SpaceySteph –
Maybe look into local or national park services? See if they accept donations and what those donations go towards?
I legitimately fear for our national parks and what will happen to them. A lot of people in the oil industry are trying to get their hands on them. Now they have that chance.
Good idea!
Spacey: How about the Sierra Club?
This looks like a good list, too, for other suggestions:
http://www.projectgreenify.com/post/31336789929/10-best-green-charities#.WCpV5jKZPeQ
Thanks, Wendy, that’s a great list! I tried browsing Charity Navigator but there were hundreds of hits and it’s hard to filter down. Definitely thinking that I’m going charity only for the holidays this year– giving and receiving.
Printed?
“It may also help in remembering that your experience is not his. He doesn’t know, and he’s never had to think about, what it’s like to be a woman or person of color or an LGBQT person in this country.”
I am a straight white woman, so I will not comment on people of color or members of the LGBQT community voting for Trump, but in my opinion any woman who voted for Trump should be ashamed of herself. If you are a woman and can watch that disgusting video and listen to the vile words that come out of that man’s mouth about women and still vote for him to be the leader of our country, may I just say, shame on you.
I agree, but I did read an article where they interviewed some women who have voted for Trump. And some of them said “that’s just how men talk”. Let that sink in. Some of these women probably live a life where the men around them all talk like this. Can you imagine? Thinking that this is how every man is? Your father, your husband, your sons? It’s so sad. To not even raise an eyebrow at those comments because they’re “normal” for you.
LW Don’t let this election destroy relationships with your family. For 15 years now members of my extended family would rent a house in Cape Cod for 2 weeks every summer. It has always been a fun time for family to reconnect and spend time together. The day after the election one of the cousins posted a scathing message on Facebook calling anyone who voted for Trump every insult and expletive you can think up and said that she no longer wanted any of them in her life. Safe to say that not only is next year’s family trip cancelled but some relationships are irreparable.
You don’t have to agree or even accept someone else’s opinion but I feel that one of the biggest loses of this election cycle was our ability to have open and honest discussions with one another or respect someone else’s opinions. I remember talking with a coworker, who was fairly religious, about her conflicts over gay marriage. I respectfully listened to her perspective and thoughts while explaining my position. Her feelings on the subject evolved, along with others, and I’d like to think that I played a small part in that by allowing her the opportunity to talk through feelings without immediately tuning her out and calling her a bigot or homophobe.
Thank you Wendy for eloquently writing what so many of us have been feeling the past few days! What many people who have been the direct targets of the hate speech that Trump has been spewing want is an acknowledgement that it was wrong to accept is a necessary evil and not to normalize it.
You don’t need to abandon your loved ones… but you do need to say that it was racist and horrible that Trump said all Mexican immigrants are criminals and rapists. If they can’t accept that then they aren’t the completely kind and loving people you thought they were and you may have to adjust the way you approach that relationship!
Another question I have that’s related to this letter and discussion… I think there are some people who voted for Trump who are not racist or sexist (in the sense that they say disparaging things about minorities/women or treat minorities/women poorly), but they also don’t believe that Trump himself is racist/sexist. (There may also be some voters voted for Trump but do believe he’s racist/sexist. They voted for him DESPITE the awful things he said about women/minorities.)
When this group of voters heard Trump say Mexican immigrants are “bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people,” they didn’t think, “Wow! That’s super racist!” It’s hard for me to comprehend how they could hear a statement like and not be outraged.
I think it scares me that these voters don’t recognize what is to me an obvious example of racism. Does anyone have any thoughts on how we can communicate with people like this?
Edited to fix a typo: (There may also be some voters *who* voted for Trump but do believe he’s racist/sexist. They voted for him DESPITE the awful things he said about women/minorities.)
I think LW’s situation is different than ‘don’t get into political fights which destroy relations with family members who may have voted Trump for reasonable reasons’. LW’s father voted for Trump knowing that he promised actions which will separate LW from her bf. Also Gore vs GWB was political/priority differences. Trump Clinton is a whole lot more than that. Trump used racist/sexist/xenophobic language that every major party candidate in my lifetime has studiously avoided. Trump is different in kind and the response to him seems largely visceral and not based on policy.
While I agree with Wendy’s overall advice, I have to say it sounds like the LW is stuck in her own world a bit too much. While I am very liberal and did not vote for Trump, I also live in the Deep South with my husband, where very few people in our lives know about his gender status. His life depends on it. His parents support him very much, but they voted for Trump. And while yes it’s obvious Trump is horrible for so many people, it takes understanding on both sides to see why someone voted for Trump. There are several people in my life I respect that voted for Trump and none of them liked the fact that he is racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc, etc. While of course those people exist, I think with close family, taking a compassionate view is the way to go. Your family is only in your life so long, and one’s political views only make up a fragment of them. While I do think this election is very different than any other, it’s not going to help anyone to be angry at your own family. It’s a good time to have discussions and open up their world view, as well as yours.
I would disagree and say that your husband’s parents and your friends are the ones that live in their own world. I keep seeing this “elitist” argument but how is arguing strongly for human rights elitist or insular? It seems like that to those who live in conservative bubbles because they choose not to join the rest of the US and younger generations in progress. If the people you know can’t accept that voting for him is in some form or other an endorsement of his vision on minority groups then they shouldn’t have voted for him.
You mention your husband’s gender status, so I’m assuming he’s not cis? So his parents voted in the guy who wants to ensure that your husband has to live in hiding for the rest of his life? I honestly don’t think I could forgive my parents if they’d done such a thing.
This link was posted by a Facebook friend. She felt it was a great read that tells it like it is and doesn’t bash anybody.
http://yellowhammernews.com/politics-2/andrews-trump-clinton-will-president-heres-decide-vote/
I skimmed through and felt it was biased toward Trump with it’s wording but lots of people read this type of argument before voting and felt they needed to vote for Trump. No where does it mention that Trump sexually abused women. No where that there were court cases filed against him from before he ran for President and that they would begin occurring soon. No where does it mention that Trump was using racism and other types of fear mongering and insults and put downs. It made him sound like a normal candidate.
This arguement supporting Trump was posted by another Facebook friend. She was a high school classmate and is a grandmother with four granddaughters.
https://kellyquelette.wordpress.com/2016/10/11/why-im-voting-for-donald-trump/
Looks like neither of those are actually legitimate news sources. Maybe they’re not the alt-right fake news that received so many FB shares, but they’re not real news. I left FB… I had unfriended or unfollowed anyone who was spreading bullshit, but I still blame Zuckerberg for not realizing or doing anything about the proliferation of white supremacist fake news on his platform, and keeping people in a bubble. So many people get ALL their news and info from FB. It’s disturbing.
I follow Facebook sometimes. I often get on no more than once a week. It does keep me up to date on my family who are scattered all over the country. It also gives me a point of view I would otherwise never see.
These people also don’t trust the mainstream media because they’ve heard so much bad about it.
Also, yeah, that first one is biased AF while taking great pains to pretend not to be. It seems like these articles start with asking the reader to forget about / overlook the bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny, sexual assault, etc. Just take it off the table and don’t think about it when making your decision. Total permission to ignore. That said, let’s not pretend that many, MANY people who voted for him ARE bigots and actually deplorable. If you voted for him, you either decided only white males really matter (yes that includes female white voters), or you share his beliefs. People need to own it.
Or you’re willfully ignorant.
I think many are willfully ignorant. Most of them don’t look at the source or wonder who is trying to manipulate them. They just read it like anything else and think it sounds good and pass it on which is how they found it in the first place. I saw lots of these types of things but didn’t see factual information from the democratic party. I have to wonder if Hillary and her team missed the importance of Facebook and ignored it.
I also had the sense that many vote based on abortion. Their point of view is as long as a million babies are dying every year every other issue is insignificant. With that attitude they can ignore everything else. They can also skip doing anything of value about any other issue because feeding the hungry or standing up against oppression is not as important as saving innocent babies. It is a great excuse to do nothing.
Yup, clearly from those two articles, they vote on abortion, guns, borders.
Funny you didn’t see any legit liberal pieces on FB. Most of my “friends” on there were liberals and were sharing pieces from NYT, Wash Post, CNN, HuffPost (yes, liberal, but a legit source of news), etc., not just passing around blog posts. But for liberals and conservatives alike, social media does have that effect of keeping you in a bubble of like minded beliefs.
Facebook deliberately created separate liberal and conservative news feeds.
I grew up in a conservative, rural area so the people I know from there are almost all Republican. We currently also live in a conservative, moderately rural area and most of the people we know here are also Republican so I saw a lot more of that than the liberal side. Also, the people voting republican seem to put it out there much more than the people voting democratic. Maybe that just reflects that the people who aren’t voting for republicans get jumped all over if they say anything about voting for a democrat. My husband saw a guy he knew on Facebook say that he had just voted for Hillary and about 75 people shouted at him asking how he could do such a thing. It is very hard to say much when you are surrounded by so much anger.
I try to fact check and point out errors or link to snopes. My husband saw a post where a local federal agent had posted on her Facebook feed a link to an article claiming that the Pope had endorsed Trump. My husband replied with please people fact check and then pointed out that the Pope doesn’t endorse presidential candidates and the Catholic Church in America also doesn’t endorse candidates because it would lose it’s tax free status. A number of people liked his reply. Knowing that the woman who posted that link was a federal agent I knew that she was ignoring the fact that it was fake and posting it because she wanted people to believe it and like it and pass it on. Being a federal investigator she definitely had to know better, she must know how to check information but chose to pass on a lie. She has talked about running for county sheriff and if she ever does there is no way I will vote for her after seeing how easily she can be dishonest. I don’t think she gets that she is smearing her own reputation when she is passing on lies or, more likely, thinks she’ll get more positive benefit from doing so than negative consequences. I feel contempt for her at this point in time.
In general, I feel that those trending republican are much more apt to pass on information that is dishonest. At least that’s what I see. My husband and I comment on it from time to time when we see yet another link to yet another blatant lie. Those same people would say that I’m in a bubble and blindly believe the MSM and don’t know the real truth.
To give you a feel for the area where we live. We have a theater that offers classes to kids. During the afternoon they have classes for homeschoolers followed by classes for those who attend regular schools. The two groups of parents will overlap in the waiting area when dropping off and picking up kids. I’ve heard a homeschooling parent ask a homeschooled child if they had reached the Tower of Babel in history. I was stunned that anyone included the Tower of Babel in a history class. They make sure that every bit of their curriculum is Biblically based. I assume they can’t find too much math in the bible but they certainly base their history and science on the bible and probably social studies. The Constitution is seen as a God given or inspired document.
Smh. The Pope actually said some highly disapproving things about “people who build great walls” and “false prophets.” He 100% does not endorse Trump. I heard about that story going around FB though. It got a million shares. Very good example. I think in a New England state you get a LOT more liberals posting stories and info that leans left and pointing out inaccuracies or inconsistencies in stories and memes from the Right.
Buzzfeed recently did a report on false info published on Facebook’s top 3 left- and right-leaning pages. The right had false info twice as often as the left. Both had way too much false info though.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/partisan-fb-pages-analysis
I thought it was pretty obvious that the Pope didn’t condone Trump and doesn’t approve of the hate he spews.
Whoooo, boy! Here’s a roundup of the totally fake news stories that were being passed around on FB.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5829f34ee4b0c4b63b0da2ea
I don’t think either side is blameless for why our country is the way it is right now. It shows how corrupt our government is, they just want to please the donors, etc. etc. I don’t think George Bush was a good President, and to be honest, I don’t think Barack Obama is a good President. I thought Bill Clinton was actually a darn good President. IDK guys, this is the first President though who I have actually felt terrified to have as my President.