“My Fiancé Secretly Meets Up With His Ex Girlfriend”
Initially (eight years ago), I was very uncomfortable with their friendship. This was a girl who would reach out to him all the time saying publicly on Facebook that she loved and missed him. He assured me it was nothing and insisted I meet her to get to know her. I met her and had an instinct that this girl was not one I could trust. I told him carefully how uncomfortable I was with their friendship, and, after much quarreling, he finally told her she needed to cool it with the messages.
Throughout the years my boyfriend has been extremely committed to me, but I have always mentioned that, if he planned to keep in touch with her, I would just like to know. Twice before he has hid going to see her: one time at her house and now, two weeks ago, she reached out on Facebook to wish him congratulations on our engagement and he asked her for her number and started texting her to meet up and catch up. He deleted all of his messages and I found out.
My problem with this whole scenario is that he claims she means absolutely nothing to him but he has consistently hid meeting up with her over the years. I know they don’t keep in touch on a regular basis, but this lack of trust I have in him is not good. He is extremely apologetic and understands the seriousness of how upset I am with him.
Am I crazy? Is he still not over her? Or is this just innocent old friends wanting to catch up? — Crazy Fiancée?
So, in eight years, your fiancé has secretly met up with his ex exactly twice, the second time two weeks ago–did they even meet up or just talk about meeting up?–and you say that “he has consistently hid meeting up with her over the years”? I would not call two meetings in eight years “consistent.” In fact, I’d call it very inconsistent. And if this is what you’re worried about, then I would say that, yeah, maybe you do sound a little bit crazy.
I mean, it’s totally shady of your fiancé to keep any kind of meet-up with his ex a secret, and you definitely have a reason to be upset about that — I’ll grant you that. But, it sounds to me that, even more than the secrecy about these meet-ups, you’re bothered by what you consider the regularity of them. You’ve built up in your head that the two of them have carried on a secret friendship all these years, and if what you’ve written above is true — that they’ve seen each other twice in eight years and that your boyfriend didn’t even know his ex’s phone number and publicly asked for it over FB — then I just don’t see how theirs is a friendship that is at all deeply connected, consistent, or illicit.
Look, if you had something to worry about, don’t you think at some point in the last eight years, and certainly in the last year or two since your fiancé’s ex broke up with her boyfriend, something would have happened? If he weren’t over her, wouldn’t he have tried to make a move before, I don’t know, getting engaged to you? Clearly, they are FB friends — or at least connected through mutual friends, so they had an easy way to get in touch with each other. And yet, in eight years, they haven’t done so more than what sounds like a couple of times. But still, despite no evidence that you should worry, except your instinct upon meeting this woman eight years ago, you have “always mentioned” that, if he planned to keep in touch with her, you would like to know. Really, always? I have to wonder what “always” looks like over the course of eight years, especially when, until apparently two weeks ago, there was only one single meet-up between these two exes. Granted, it was a secret meet-up that you later found out about, but do you think that the reason your fiancé kept it a secret was because of how irrational you sounded always mentioning this ex, despite his being “extremely committed” to you and despite his being barely in touch with this person?
I don’t know, maybe there are still feelings between your fiancé and his ex, but, more than likely, they’re just two old friends who were close once, dating briefly when they were kids, and who enjoy touching base or catching up every few years as people do who knew each other during such formative times in their lives. It’s not that weird. What’s weird is the big deal you’re making about it, to the point that your fiancé feels like he can’t even be honest with you on the rare times he does talk to or see this old friend.
If I were you, I’d back off and let him know that, while you don’t condone secrecy and are hurt by that kind of betrayal, you trust him enough to occasionally talk to or see an old friend (even someone he dated years ago). Then let him know if you have any boundaries he needs to respect (like, for example, you don’t want him going to her house alone or seeing her in private). And if you can’t trust him to respect the boundaries, or if you truly think that, after all these years, he still has feelings for his ex — beyond the kind of feelings someone might have for a distant friend from the bygone days — you need to reconsider your engagement and decide if you’re really ready to marry this guy. Because marrying someone you can’t trust? That would be crazy.
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It’s been 8 years. Maybe you have reasons you didn’t disclose for why you don’t trust your fiancé. Maybe you’re having second thoughts about getting married to him and seizing on this as a reason to end your engagement. But if you’re seriously freaking out because 8 years ago, your fiancé had a girlfriend in high school that he hasn’t really kept in touch with but doesn’t hate, either – so much so that he avoids talking about her because you freak out and he doesn’t want to deal with it – then you need to get over it already because that is nuts.
Do you really want to marry someone who keeps secrets from you? Regardless of the reason, this is not a mature way to deal with this problem. A marriage based on secrecy will not last. You need to work out exactly why you don’t trust your boyfriend, and he needs to stop keeping secrets. Until both of these things are worked out, do not get married.
If my significant other freaked out a bit about someone I dated in high school, I would probably not disclose all contact with that person either. I don’t think the question is should the LW marry this guy. I think the question is, why did he propose and why is he marrying her?
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But I do agree with you that they have some serious communication issues and should work out the kinks before walking down the aisle.
EXACTLY. Clearly, this LW is a freaking mess. Oh, and P.S. — messes are often lied to (BY EVERYBODY!) as it’s always simply too much fucking drama to tell them the truth…
you’re so right! (except now are you wondering if i lied to you because it’s too much drama to tell you the truth? we will never know. dun dun dun.)
(i actually agreed, though. but now query if THIS part is the lie? i don’t even know, i’m so confused by myself.)
Apparently, you’ve ALWAYS been fucking crazy, eh? This is much ado about nothing…
Am I the only one who deletes FB and text messages on a regular basis? It has nothing to do with secrecy on my part…I just want to keep it somewhat clean, unlike my out of control email inbox.
I do this, too. Also with emails (well, I put the emails into assorted folder and get them out of my inbox, anyway) and I periodically erase my browser history, too. I’m not hiding anything, I just really, really like it when everything is “clean” and tidy and “new.” It may be a slight obsession.
Nope. I clear my browser history and and empty my email’s trash daily, and delete text threads as soon as I am done w/the conversation. The only one I leave around is between me and BFF because we talk frequently, but I still go through it and delete the older parts just to free up space.
Im sure Wendy has to edit these somewhat before posting and such, but I feel like there is something major missing here. They didnt have each other’s phone numbers until just recently? And LW thinks there is something there from EIGHT YEARS ago? I totally agree that he is being a bit shady, but I really dont get it beyond that. Maybe Im crazy too then, because I dont really get this…
I promise, I did not edit out any important details here.
Gracias for the clarification.
Also, SQUEEEEE!!!! I got a response from Wendy! hehe
Give this guy a break. He’s hung out with his ex (who he broke up with before he even met you) twice in 8 years. The secret, deleted messages? Yeah, that’s not cool. But it’s not like he’s been carrying on a years-long affair. It sounds like the original reasons you didn’t quite like her were these inappropriate public declarations on social media. You never told him he couldn’t be in touch with her, but made it clear you were uncomfortable with the idea. He might have even forgotten about your comments about keeping in touch, or assumed that since he wasn’t planning on keeping on touch beyond this nostalgia session, it wasn’t important. So one way to not make waves with you would probably be by not telling you. I’m not saying hiding things from you was a good idea, but he likely wanted to keep you happy, especially during this happy engagement time, and saying, “my ex-girlfriend you never liked congratulated us on our engagement” would have probably put a damper on an otherwise happy time in your life.
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If there are other reasons you don’t trust your boyfriend or don’t want to make this big step with him, address that. If what is bothering you most is the secrecy, talk about that with him. Ask him why he felt he needed or should do that and how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. But rehashing the same argument about the same ex that’s barely in his life is really going to get you nowhere and might even drive a wedge between you.
It would be interesting to know how the fiancé explained things to LW – unfortunately that’s missing from the letter. Did he have a reason for not telling LW about meeting up with the ex? After so many years, I could definitely see him thinking it wasn’t a big deal anymore for him to meet up with the ex, but I wonder why he didn’t just tell LW that that’s what he had assumed.
I’m curious too. I’ve had conversations with Bassanio about what things need to be told and what don’t. The whole “if it wasn’t a big deal, then why not tell” thing works up to a point, but then you have the converse of “if it’s not a big deal, why should you tell?” I think that generally people fall on one side of that line and tend toward telling everything including the unimportant things or not telling the unimportant things. I can kind of see both sides even if I’m more on one side.
There is something more going on here and I think there are other issues in the relationship that you aren’t addressing. Either you aren’t admitting to yourself that there are issues or you don’t realize it. In a strong, healthy relationship this definitely wouldn’t be a big deal. The relationship with his ex was 8 years ago and he hasn’t given you reason not to trust him. I would look seriously at your relationship. Are you happy? Like are you honestly happy? Figure out what’s going on before getting married because marriage won’t automatically fix it.
I don’t like secrets. I would be irritated that he was being dishonest. However, is there something in your behavior that makes him think he has to keep it a secret from you to avoid drama? It’s still not fair, but maybe he does just want to have lunch with his ex and catch up. It does not mean he wants to have a torrid affair with her. You need to discuss honesty and boundaries with him, and if he can’t commit to that, then maybe you need to rethink this, while examining your own actions and behavior.
You said this much better than I did.
Let’s see:
*boundary-challenged ex who posted love you-miss you messages on facebook when she knew the guy was in another relationship and had met the new girlfriend; still happy to talk
*fiance who hid visits to the ex and now lately asked for her phone number so he can “text her all the time,” even though he knows that she’s been a problem for you in the past
*you asking yourself if you’re crazy for feeling uncomfortable/hurt about this
= you and your fiance have some serious talking/counseling to do that will require you both to be honest. The fact is you’re not okay if he sees/communicates with the ex at all. You need to own that. The fact is that he wants to talk to her, apparently, so he needs to tell you what it means to him, etc. You two should be working as a team to find the middle ground – because you are a team, aren’t you?
It really seems like the only reason he keeps it a secret from you is because you are jealous, and sound like you would freak out on him for catching up with an old friend. I mean really you sound overly jealous of nothing, and it seems like he must have to tip to around things for you.
ugh tip toe
I don’t think I love the idea that its ok to lie/keep secrets as long as your partner is “crazy.” If you think your partner is being crazy about something, talk to them about it and/or break up. Not that hard.
I don’t think people are saying “it’s ok” to keep secrets if your partner is crazy — just that it’s understandable why someone would. Like, if a guy were dating/married to a woman who was all, “I don’t approve of bachelor parties where there are strippers. I’m not saying you CAN’T go to them, I would probably be upset if you did,” I could see if the guy kept it a secret if he went to a bachelor party and there were strippers because it’s much, much easier to keep the secret than deal with a wife who is freaking out over something that was seriously no big deal at all. Like, why get the wife all upset and potentially cause a fight and maybe alienate the friends who threw the party?
Whether its understandable shouldn’t make a difference though. Its still keeping a secret/lying. Just because you could rationalize why you did, doesn’t eliminate the fact that you are keeping secrets. I don’t disagree that this LW is being crazy about this because she is, but I still don’t think its cool to lie so long as you can rationalize why you’re lying.
That said, LW needs to get over this unnecessary jealousy or MOA.
I think the idea that “honesty is always the best policy” is oversimplifying interpersonal relationships. Sometimes it’s not the best policy. For the record, in the case of meeting up with exes, at least in regards to the LW and her fiancé, I absolutely think the fiancé should not have kept that a secret. But there are plenty of occasions that, yes, if you can rationalize keeping a secret, ESPECIALLY, if part of the rationalization includes preserving a partner’s feelings, it’s probably better to keep the secret than to be honest just for the sake of being honest.
For example, let’s say there’s a couple who’s been married many years and they have kids together and they’re generally a really happy couple. But maybe early in their relationship, one party kissed someone else. It was a one-time transgression and didn’t mean anything. Should that person come clean simply because “honesty is the best policy” even if it would result in hurt feelings and a potential lack of trust? Even if there’s never been another transgression since then and their relationship is otherwise healthy and happy and stable? Personally, I don’t think so. Yes, keeping secrets “isn’t cool,” but sometimes it’s a little less “not cool” than the alternative.
The problem with secrets is that they have a way of coming out, and THEN there is hurt feelings because of the betrayal rather than the original transgression. It seems like in this letter the two are merging into one.
Personally, I think the LW made it clear she was uncomfortable and laid her boundaries down a few times before with respect to this person, and he crossed the line. And she’s entitled to that without our judgement if it was negotiated in their relationship. It would be another thing if he had told her about the once in the while catch up before going and had her understand that it was innocent and above board, giving her a chance to trust him (it was a sketchy location too – her place? Why there?). He may not be doing anything dodgy but he’s not great job of reassuring her. If it wasn’t worth the hassling of telling her, it sure doesn’t seem like it’s now worth the fallout of her finding out.
I agree with Wendy on this. I chuckled at her scenario above (about the kissing) because this actually happened to me. I’ve been married 15 years. About 2-3 years into our marriage we had moved away from friends and family and my husband was having trouble finding work and we weren’t in a good place. I went on a business trip had a little too much to drink and kissed a man (not even a passionate kiss…more of a quick kiss). I left where I was because that was not cool. But it made me also evaluate somethings going on in my marriage (at the time I didn’t things were really that bad). Long story short I never told my husband but I did start trying harder in our marriage and as a result he did too. I still have not told him to this day. Why? Why should I tell him? I don’t think I should and never will. We are really happy right now and have been for many years now.
Yeah. I’m with Wendy too. I’m not a fan of black and white scenarios and a lot of the time, there is gray. I don’t think you need to tell everyone the truth 100% of the time.
If it had been a crazy passionate relationship fraught with drama, that could never work in the real world, that might be cause for concern, but this sounds more like a friendship that ran its course and left warm feelings. If he wanted to be with her, he’d be with her. But I think it’s clear he wants to be with you.
So, I actually had a boyfriend once who had an ex with him he had a “crazy, passionate relationship fraught with drama” and he did actually secretly meet up with her while he and I were together and I was pretty livid/hurt/ etc. about it. And I asked myself whether I would be as upset if their relationship had been pretty drama-free and, I would still be upset if they were secretly meeting up, but I don’t think I’d be QUITE as livid/hurt/ etc. I also don’t feel like there would have been any reason to keep it a secret at the relationship just run its course and they had merely friendly feelings for each other.
I can’t focus today. I just want to say that I love all these moments in life. You know, all the moments we have, that when strung together makes our lives – it’s all so nice and lovely. And some are really quick, meaningless moments and some are deeper and last longer, but, yet, that’s all they still are – just moments – brief moments in an eternity of time. I want more moments. Of the meaningful kind. Le sigh. (I saw “Boyhood” on Saturday and my brain is still mush.) There’s just not enough time to waste on the bad moments. I’m not really talking to LW. I’m not really talking to anyone. I’m just FEELING, ok?!?!
Thanks for everyone’s advice.
To clarify – my fiancee has had a tendency in the past to hide things… it’s in his nature. He has problems expressing himself and dealing with confrontation (and this is by and large due to the fact that his parents divorced when he was only three years old). He has not fully dealt with his emotions and kept a lot of feelings in.
I was less upset about the fact of him meeting his ex nor was I was jealous of her (although I began to feel a sense of jealousy after he felt the need to hide it)…it was more so that I didn’t understand his actions for hiding it especially since I’ve told him he can be friends with her and it wouldn’t matter to me. It’s the issue with him hiding it from me and not being HONEST that bothered me, especially since this ISN’T a big deal. I feel that if he feels the need to hide little things from me… how is he going to handle larger situations? I also feel that if you have the need to hide anything, then clearly something needs to be addressed whether it’s his lack of ability to be honest with me about his feelings or if it’s something larger than that. The larger issue at hand is my being able to trust him to feel comfortable to tell me his feelings, ESPECIALLY since we are engaged.
Lastly, in the past, we have agreed in our relationship that I am more than comfortable with him meeting her under the pretense that I would feel better if he were honest about his meeting with her and/ or friendship with her. He can choose to be friends with whomever he wants, but understand that I may or may not necessarily be happy about it; that’s me being honest. I’m not going to pretend I like someone if I don’t. On the completely opposite end, my fiancee has also been uncomfortable with me being friends with exes as well (we broke up once in college for a year or so) and I have completely respected that. I don’t want to make him feel uncomfortable or have him feel that someone else’s friendship is more important than him…maybe we are all different but I would expect the same respect from anyone.
Perhaps I didn’t clearly explain that in my post to Wendy…. but this is what I’m truly more upset about and I hope it provides a bit more context.
**For the record, he has admitted to me he is wrong in hiding it from me and that he did have strong feelings of care for her as a friend. He has never gone as far as to explain his care for her (which is fine)…. but to not explain that he cares for someone in the past and then go out of his way to plan to see that person and hide it from me is not fair…
See, I think this is exactly what happens when someone you trust lies to you. You say you told him he can hang out with her, yet he decided to lie and/or hide hanging out with her. I’d be suspicious too if my partner felt the need to hide things from me, and I’d lose trust in him…which is what happens when someone lies to you.
I’ll also add that, sure, no scenario is black and white and aside from something that you hid 20 years ago like Wendy’s example, its interesting that people who think lying is ok sometimes are people who are benefitting from lying. Of course you will benefit from hiding bad things from your past. I just find it interesting how that can be twisted into ‘I’m saving my boyfriend from being sad and hurt about me lying.’
Yeah, if my SO kissed someone early in our relationship and it’s not a systemic issue, I definitely don’t want to know about it. So, I don’t think it’s just “people who are lying” benefiting. It won’t help me to know, so why tell me? It will just hurt me, make me anxious, etc. NOW, if he is having an affair or whatever, completely different story. I think “lying” or “omission” of the type in my first example is also about protecting people you care about – it’s just not black and white.
Saying this “I am more than comfortable with him meeting her under the pretense that I would feel better if he were honest about his meeting with her and/ or friendship with her. He can choose to be friends with whomever he wants, but understand that I may or may not necessarily be happy about it” Is not really being honest with him, you are giving mixed signals, or almost like a threat. You tell him you are comfortable with something, but also not happy about something is just messing with his head, pick one and stick with it, either be comfortable with it or don’t. You are basically telling him, he can do it, but there will be consequences.
Eh, my partner isn’t happy about me smoking and tells me so, but he also tells me I can make my own decisions because I’m my own person. I don’t think he’s sending me thinly veiled threats of leaving me (or whatever consequence you like) if I keep smoking.
My wife doesn’t like when I fart in the fan and point it at her, but I still do it. She is till telling him there will be consequences to what he is doing, so he is choosing to lie instead.
If the consequence is her not being thrilled about it, but accepting it, then shouldn’t he just be honest rather than lie to her, which obviously didn’t work out so well since she’d even more untrusting? Or, in the alternative, he could say her not being thrilled is dumb and break up?
Oh I don’t know, that’s for them to decide. He lied, because he knows she is lying about how comfortable she really is with it. I don’t think his lying was right, but that wasn’t the question, she wants to know if she is crazy, or if he has feelings for his ex. So my answer would be that you are not crazy, but just really jealous, because he probably doesn’t have feelings for her. Where they go with all of the dishonesty from here, is up them.
agreed bagge72. thanks for your advice.
i guess i didn’t phrase my question correctly. am i crazy for being upset over this in reference to her or him liking her… yes. at that point in time, i def was not thinking rationally in terms of the larger picture 🙂 and of course, women have a tendency to think differently than men, so it’s important to get your opinion and you’ve certainly played devil’s advocate so i appreciate it.
am i crazy for being upset that he lied to me… no. and maybe that’s the more important question.
@Bagge72 – who said anything about consequences or threats? I just said I’d appreciate the honesty from him – I’ve made it clear that I don’t like this person. However, I’m not going to give him shit if he’s honest about wanting to hang out with someone… (I’ll give you more shit if you hide it, though). If we haven’t learned anything from my lesson is that you can’t keep anyone from doing anything if they don’t want to so I don’t think it’s fair to say you should “pick a side”
He has told me he is uncomfortable with me hanging out with certain people and I don’t feel “threatened” by any means. Is he wrong in telling me how he feels as well? If I feel like hanging out with someone he doesn’t like, I’ll tell him and that’s that (girl or guy). At the end of the day, I respect that he has his own opinions and I have mine…it doesn’t mean he or I should feel the need to hide our opinions. Listen, if your significant other can’t handle your opinion so much as you’re better off keeping it to yourself then you’ve got larger issues to deal with. If anything that’s extremely unhealthy and I truly hope that’s not how your relationship is @bagge72.
Where did I say it was wrong to tell somebody how you feel or hide your opinions? I’m just telling you why I think he lied, I never said it was right or wrong, just that I think you hid your feelings about how really uncomfortable you were with him meeting up with her, and he lied to you about meeting up with her. To him it was the lesser of two evils to lie to you about meeting up with his ex, because he thinks that your reaction is going to be worse than what you say it really is.
Well, if he has a history of just secretive behaviour it probably wasn’t as well thought out as that as more ingrained patterns of being. Which is sort of incompatible with a happy relationship for most people. So he needs to address the urge to hide things, or the LW needs to accept that is how he rolls sometimes and it’s not a reflection on her or a comment on their relationship.
I also don’t think it’s a threat. The consequence is that LW’s not going to be particularly happy with him, which happens from time to time in any relationship.
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But it honestly sounds like they both need to work on their communication in general before walking down the aisle. LW, this part bothered me even more: “my fiancee has had a tendency in the past to hide things… it’s in his nature. He has problems expressing himself and dealing with confrontation (and this is by and large due to the fact that his parents divorced when he was only three years old). He has not fully dealt with his emotions and kept a lot of feelings in.” If you don’t deal with these things, I can almost promise you this type of situation will come up again in the future. It may not be about this one ex, but about his health, or his relationship with his family, or something else. I grew up in an environment that was kind of like that (they hid the bad and uncomfortable things from us kids, like illnesses, and still tend to hide them) and therapy did a lot to help me break some of these patterns in my own life. I think talking with me about his family’s past has helped my boyfriend somewhat, too.
Yeah threatening was a strong word, I just really think she is telling him she is comfortable with it, but at the same time saying she really isn’t comfortable with it, and that is why she had to tell him so many times over the years even though he lost contact with his ex.
He hid it from you because he figured you blow it WAYYYYYY out of proportion… which you promptly did. In spades. Meanwhile… You are so maddeningly vague — you go on and on about something seemingly trivial and minute. You offer up no compelling details. Instead, it’s paragraph after paragraph about… nothing. Signifying… Nothing.
Also I don’t get this part “He has never gone as far as to explain his care for her (which is fine)…. but to not explain that he cares for someone in the past and then go out of his way to plan to see that person and hide it from me is not fair…” He said from the very beginning when he met you that she was his best friend, so he did explain it from the beginning.
LW, if nothing else, put the wedding planning on hold until you and your fiance can work on your issues of honesty, trust, and communication. This is not a strong foundation to build a marriage upon.
“On the completely opposite end, my fiancee has also been uncomfortable with me being friends with exes as well (we broke up once in college for a year or so) and I have completely respected that. I don’t want to make him feel uncomfortable or have him feel that someone else’s friendship is more important than him…maybe we are all different but I would expect the same respect from anyone.”
I think this is what many comments are missing.
It’s about being on the same page about what hurts your partner. If a partner was weird about you hanging out with every platonic friend of the gender you fancy, that’d be controlling. I wouldn’t advise staying with that person, or trying to deal with their issues because it’d probably be impossible. I have friends with partners like this; have to be invited to every meetup in case they get jealous.
But exes can sometimes be complicated, and a lot of people may struggle with that. And I feel it’s fair for partners to try to accommodate that as much as possible. Ultmately, seeing an ex (even if they became a good friend) would be less important to me than ensuring my partner was comfortable. If they would become upset because of issues in the past (say, an ex of theirs cheated with an ex, I don’t know) it makes sense to accommodate that, as long as they are generally accepting and understanding of everyone else in your life. i.e. they aren’t being controlling. We closethe door on relationships for a reason and that also means it’s pointless to relive the past with nostalgia.
Yes, Wendy, you’re right. Even if he wasn’t even flirting with this girl he went behind his girlfriend’s back. I would have a sit down with him and talk about how crucial it is for him to be honest in the relationship, which means if he really wants to do something that LW has a problem with, they have to talk it out.
LW I just read your comment and you are absolutely right. Honesty and trust are crucial.