“My Friend Became a Liberal and Now Refuses to Talk to Me”
I’ve been very close friends with both “Molly” and “Sarah” for over fifteen years. Sarah is married to Molly’s brother, so they are both friends and sisters-in-law. We are very close to each other and with each others’ families. About two years ago, Molly moved away to a major city and became extremely liberal, which is fine. I was happy that she was growing as a person and finding her own way in life. However, our friendship began to be strained around the 2024 election. We have very different political views, which I am totally OK with but Molly is not. She stopped speaking to me the day of President Trump’s inauguration, saying that she no longer could be my friend because we share a “different morality” and she believes I am a brain-washed racist, bigot, and Nazi sympathizer (which I am not). She blocked my number, and blocked me on social media. Sarah told me she didn’t want to be in the middle of it because both Molly and I are her best friends. Sarah and I have remained close friends since the incident.
Molly recently came home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I was told by Sarah I could not visit her home during that time because Molly refuses to be near me, which I can understand because it would be have been uncomfortable for everyone involved.
Here is the issue I’m having: Sarah is due to have a baby in the next few months and I assume Molly will be in town for the birth because the baby will be her nephew. I refuse to be told I can’t visit Sarah at the hospital because it makes Molly uncomfortable. Sarah and I have not had a conversation about this because I don’t even know how to bring it up. I don’t have a problem at all with Molly. She’s the one who ended our friendship. I can be an adult about it and be around Molly for the birth of the baby, but I doubt she’s willing to do the same for me.
Sarah is one of the only people in this world that I care for and I know she would want me to be there for the birth of her first son. What should I do about this? Should I put my own feelings aside and be the bigger person for the sake of Sarah and her family, or should I tell Molly to figure out a way to deal with my presence?
I would really appreciate your input. — Desperate to Be Included
You’re making a lot of assumptions about the birth of Sarah’s baby — who will be invited to the hospital, whether Sarah would want you (or anyone!) there, whether you will be welcome or not — without anything at all being communicated to you. You are deciding that you “refuse to be told you can’t visit Sarah at the hospital,” when no one has told you you can’t visit Sarah in the hospital, and someone else’s labor and delivery isn’t about you. If you are, in fact, told you can’t visit Sarah in the hospital, the best way to support your best friend — a person you say is one of the few people in this world you actually care about – is to let her know that you understand and would love to meet her new baby whenever it is convenient and comfortable for her.
Having a baby is physically and emotionally exhausting. It’s very possible Sarah will not want anyone at the hospital but her husband and maybe immediate family. It’s a given that she will not want drama, and whether you like it or not: you + Molly = drama. Why invite that drama into the hospital? Because you can’t wait a few days to meet the baby? Because you think Sarah won’t know how much you care about her if you don’t force yourself into the hospital as soon as you possibly can? Because Molly won’t know you’re Sarah’s favorite if she doesn’t choose you to be there over her? Grow up. This is not about you. I don’t say that because my political leanings differ 100% from yours; I say it because it’s true and I’d say it to Molly, too. Sarah’s labor is not about either of you so cut the damn bullshit.
You want to be a great friend? You want to let Sarah know how much you care about her? Ease the potential anxiety she might be feeling at the thought of you and Molly fighting over who gets to be at the hospital to support her and say: “Sarah, I’m so excited for you to become a mom, and I cannot WAIT to meet your baby! I would love to visit you at the hospital, but for any reason if that isn’t best for you, I will understand and hope to be among the first to visit you and baby when you get home. Please let me know if there’s anything specific I can do to support you in these final weeks of your pregnancy.”
If you “refuse” to make that message clear, because you “refuse” to be told you can’t visit Sarah in the hospital because you “refuse” to accept that someone else’s needs might be more important than yours for whatever reason — even if that need is for Sarah to have peace in the hospital because she just gave birth and she doesn’t want to deal with drama, even if said potential drama isn’t your “fault” — then you’re being asshole.
“Winning” isn’t always worth it, friendships often have expiration dates (and realizing you do not share a similar moral compass or world view is as good a reason as any to move on from a friendship), and the best way to support someone isn’t always what is most fun or convenient or satisfying for you. And since this is unlikely to be the last time you feel competitive with Molly over your friendship with Sarah, the faster you accept that there will be occasions when Molly’s role as family trumps (no pun intended) your role as best friend, and that any exclusion that may result is not a reflection of your prominence in Sarah’s life or heart, the better off you, and everyone else, will be.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
LW#1 – you’re clearly hurt that your friend sees you differently than you see yourself. Wendy’s right. This birth is not about you. You don’t get to dictate who comes and goes to that hospital and if you want to show your friend that you are a mature and caring person then just follow the terms as she lays them out. She has bigger issues to deal with than your feelings, specifically expelling a human from her body.
LW#2 – did this guy live with a very doting mom before moving in with you? Has he ever lived alone? Maybe he wanted to move in with you because he figured life with you would be like living with Mommy again. Well fuck that shit. He’s a grown ass adult who needs to start living like one. He’s sitting on the couch while you’re getting things together? Hell no.
Here’s the key though, and I want you to take a really good look at your own behavior: When he does something, do you criticize him for not doing it the way you would do it? Are you setting a standard that he can’t (or won’t reach)? And is he not reaching it because if he screws it up – then you’ll just take it on? Like screwing up the laundry and ruining your sweaters or not getting all the baked on stuff off of the bake wear? If that’s the case, don’t follow up behind him and make it “right”. Let him fail. Obviously, there are limits, but I’m of the mindset that if I had $10 place settings and dear partner continually broke them as a passive aggressive way to not wash dishes anymore, I’m going into our joint account and getting $50 settings because then maybe he’ll be more careful. I have no patience for people who can’t reasonably maintain a household.
Yeah, I’m with Wendy on LW1 – the only person who gets to choose who visits a new mother and her baby in the hospital is the new mother. End of story.
It never ceases to amaze me how people assume they are coming into the delivery room. Assume no one will be there. Plus, why is it even something one wants to do so badly. You can wait 48 hours, avoid the drive to a hospital, parking fees, barely being able to even see mom or the baby as doctor are in and out. Good grief.
I don’t think she meant being in the delivery room.
My baby sister invited me into the delivery room for her first baby specifically because I understood who was the focus of the delivery, and I am a supportive and accepting person. Plus, she had a total silence rule during active delivery and she knew I would respect the rule and also enforce it with her husband. My sister the drama queen? Who was demanding to be there? Not so much. That birth will always be one of the most magical moments I have ever witnessed.
Exactly. Saying that you *refuse* to be told by a new mom you can’t be at the hospital when they give birth is a sign of a true jerk. If she says you can’t visit, you can’t visit. I surely wouldn’t want someone that entitled at the hospital…
Well, look at whom LW’s chosen to align herself.
LW1). Yeah, no sympathy from me. Love to hear your intellectually brilliant take on the Nazi riots… seriously? Fuck the fuck off… And then? Go to hell
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That aside, stop making your friend’s labor ALL about you. (So narcissistic! No wonder you LOVE Forrest Dump!!). Your friend has every right to NOT want to deal with YOUR vapid political drama right now. And NEWSFLASH! a sister inlaw typically “trumps” friend who needlessly stirs the pot… Then again, your friend may want NEITHER of you there. My own sister — who I am VERY close to really wanted a few days with just herself, her new baby, and her husband… And nobody in our families thought that was weird at all. We came and met the baby when they were eager for us to do so… we didn’t all barge into the hospital uninvited!!
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LW2. He sounds… fucking useless. I say — he shapes up or he ships out.
*APPLAUSE*
I think it’s interesting when people use the word “politics” to imply that it’s trivial. “Politics” affect actual lives. Because of politics, some people can’t afford medical care and will die. Because of politics, Nazis march around and kill someone with a car. Because of politics, there are children who are detained away from their families with no end in sight. When people differ on whether certain demographics of people should exist or not, then friendships CERTAINLY should be affected.
Also, acknowledging people have differing views doesn’t mean you have to like them. Do people have different views? Sure. Do I want to be friends with people who think Nazis are no big deal? No, I do not.
Politics is one thing. The wholesale oppression and intimidation of other ethnicities & religions in the U.S. is something altogether different.
Amen.
I agree. I never understand people who say they have no political views or opinions. All political leanings are are the operation of your value and worldview. They are important, and everyone has to have a stance. Your political stance is who you are, what you believe in.
While I definitely think it’s possible to be friends with people who have different values and worldviews, there are limits. There are deal-breakers. Can some people be overly strident, purists, and dicks about their political views? Sure.
But I definitely think it’s valid to assess someone by their political views and find them to be so far from your own, so far from your own values and beliefs, that you just know there’s no common ground between you and them.
❤️
LW 1 I also think you’re picking the wrong battle(field) here. I mean even if you would both be welcome , there’s no reason you’d have to go at the same damn time. I get it, it sucks that someone close chose to drop you as a friend, especially for something you may not think of as a deal breaker, but leave Sarah and her unborn baby out of this. Stop this drama, move on and find some new friends (I’d suggest Molly do the same).
LW 1: “Sarah is one of the only people in this world that I care for” Ever think that this may actually be the problem? Maybe if you cared for more people – those you know, those you don’t know, those you may never even meet – then you wouldn’t be so desperate and clingy to your best friend. A newfound awareness of how others live, and an appreciation for those differences, might go a long way in making you happier.
LW1 – I’d like to think that the intent of your letter had more to do with the poor treatment you’ve felt from Molly and the strain it’s put on your relationship with Sarah and how you don’t think that is very fair….. and not about strong-arming your way into Sarah’s birth. (I hope)
In a way, the impending birth of Sarah’s baby has likely increased the hurt you feel from Molly’s pushing you away. Either way, this is the time to show Sarah that you’re not all of those things that Molly thinks you are. Show Sarah (AND Molly) that you’re a kind and respectful friend that would be there for her exactly when and where she needs you. (really, though, it’s probably not at the hospital – there’s already enough going on there that an extra visitor is probably not needed).
Sarah has been placed in a very bad place by her sister-in-law, and, she probably already knows this but can’t really do much to change it. Don’t add extra stress to Sarah at this time by making her play referee between you and Molly. Be kind and generous (yes, even to Molly!) and hopefully one day, you and Molly can put aside your political differences and be there for Sarah and the new baby together.
LW: I think you’re overthinking this and maybe assuming Sarah has less autonomy than she does. Like Wendy said, none of this has happened yet. You’re getting worked up and stewing over things that you assume other people are going to do but haven’t done yet. Wait until people actually do things to get mad at them. Also, if Sarah truly thinks it’s that important for you to be at the hospital, then she’ll tell you to come to the hospital. I think going to the hospital for a friend’s delivery is an odd hill to die on because the vast majority of people do not want their friends at the hospital. They want to give birth in peace without having to deal with guests. If she doesn’t invite you, then consider that she wants peace and quiet, not that she’s being mean to you. Maybe she doesn’t want to worry about whether you two are going to snipe at each other and maybe she doesn’t want bad vibes at the birth of her baby of two people who hate each other. Don’t assume she’s a sort of puppet that Molly is forcing to ignore you.
Also, since you presumably live in the same area as Sarah, I’m not sure why not being about to go to her house for a month was a big deal. I assume she can go to your house, you two can go out other places, and the other 11 months of the year, her home is open.
I think a lot of folks on your side of the political spectrum feel a sense of relief that Trump is president because it’s less “taboo” to express certain beliefs. But there’s always consequences to expressing them. First Amendment gives you a right to say things, but not a right to expect that there will be no negative consequences to expressing something that other people don’t like.
Your support for Trump is a particularly distasteful political position to take. Cheers for Molly for severing her relationship with you.
Love hearing from Trump supporters whose synagogues aren’t getting surrounded by nazi parades, whose families aren’t getting deported, who aren’t worried about skyrocketing healthcare coverage. If nothing bad is happening to you and you don’t care about the people to whom it’s happening because they don’t look or sound like you, it’s easy to not get worked up about these things.
So since my wife had our baby, I feel bad for all of my friends I have visited in the hospital when they had their children. I had no idea how hard it was. It’s a special moment, that is physically the most draining thing you can do, and 17 times harder for the mother, so having more people than you want there is just not fun at all. And that goes for the next couple of weeks at home! Even my family, after having them there for pretty much the first 72 hours, I felt I didn’t learn as much as I should have, and kicked them out, and said if we need you we will call, and they totally understood. My friends with kids did the same thing, the texted me and said let me know when you guys want visitors, we know how hard it is right away! So LW: unless she is asking for you to be there, don’t just show up and shove your way in. Molly is family she should see this kid before you.
Things to do: If you know her well enough, drop some food off leading up to the birth that they can just reheat. Text, and offer your services to help keep the house clean, or do laundry things like that. But this is if you don’t think she has people already doing that.
Things not to do: Don’t get the kid a MAGA beanie, or a swastika
Best comment. Especially the last line!
LW – Yeah you really need to cool your jets here on being at the hospital with Sarah until you even know what her plan is.
And frankly, in my social circle, you DON’T go to the hospital unless you are like, husband or parents. That’s it. Everybody else meets the baby later, once you come home. I mean, I didn’t go to the hospital when my niece was born, I definitely wouldn’t expect to go when my best friend has a baby.
So, just wait until you know whether or not Sarah wants you there, AND IF SHE DOESN’T, don’t presume it’s Molly’s fault and be graceful about it. While it may not be your “fault*” that there is now a rift between you and Molly, if you are pushy and pressure Sarah (who seems entirely faultless here), then you do become a contributor to the problem. And if Molly is a SIL, you’re gonna lose when push comes to shove.
LW – I am guessing that you don’t have a child so you might not realize how rough it is for women after birth. Each woman is different. My younger sister can be very private. She made it clear that she wasn’t telling us until after the baby was born. So we did not know when she went into labor and didn’t know the baby was even born until hours later. She was discharged from the hospital only hours before we even knew there was a baby. That was her choice. I think in sitcoms you see the people waiting in the hospital but most women I know want no part of that. You have a lifetime to get to know this baby. Don’t worry about the first 48 hours.
Also, a big plug here. The best friends of mine, came over to my home with food and offered to help with chores. My best friends came over and threw in a load of laundry and washed bottles and loaded the dishwasher. I had friends who made frozen crock pot meals in gallon bags with instructions on the cover (see pinterest). They also would say, “I will watch the baby if you want to shower or walk the dog.” Heck, walk the dog for them. And my son is adopted so I wasn’t even recovering. These friends who came armed with muffins and dinners, these are the true friends more than who saw the baby first.
LW I’m assuming you’ve never had a baby. I’ve had two so I’ll share a little bit about what happens. Sarah will probably have stitches. Whether from an episiotomy, a tear or a c-section won’t matter. They will hurt. Not just a little but constantly. They especially hurt if you move or sneeze and you have to move to take care of a baby. It hurts to sit and to stand and to walk and to lift the baby. Then there is the blood. There is blood pouring out of the body in quantities you’ve never experienced requiring lots of trips to the bathroom and every one of those trips hurts because of the stitches. If she is breastfeeding she will be learning how to do that along with the baby. It took my son and I two weeks to get good at breastfeeding. The last thing you want while trying to learn to breastfeed is an audience. The last thing you want for any of this is an audience. Unless Sarah asks you to come to the hospital you should stay away. That’s what good friends do. You also stay away from her home until she is ready for you. Don’t run by to drop something off unless she has told you to come over. Try texting so that you don’t wake them up if they are sleeping. It is the worst to finally fall asleep and have someone wake you up when you are severely sleep deprived and you can assume if they have been home a day or two they are severely sleep deprived. It is annoying to have someone wake up the baby. It is annoying to have someone feel entitled to come into your home just because they think they deserve to come in. I’d give Sarah at least two weeks before you try to go and see her unless she invites you to come sooner. Then go when asked to go.
Before the birth tell her that you would love to meet the baby whenever she is ready for you to meet the baby. Ask her to text or call when she wants you to come over. Tell her you will understand if it ends up being weeks before she is ready for you to meet the baby. You can say that of course you would love to meet the baby sooner but understand if it ends up being later.
Also, make or pick up some food for them to heat up quickly so they have something to eat. Do this no matter how long after the actual birth it is. And offer to throw in a load of laundry/fold a load of laundry/empty or load the dishwasher while you’re there too.
At no point does she say that she was invited to be there. The LW actually says I know she would want me to be there not I know she wants me to be there. Those are two different statements. The first is the LW assuming. The second would be if Sarah requested the LW to be there. They are hugely different things.
At no point does she say that Sarah considers the LW to be her best friend. The LW considers Sarah to be her best friend. They aren’t necessarily the same. We don’t know what opinion Sarah has about the LWs political views. We do know that Molly is a SIL and will therefore be notified of the birth along with the other family members. In general, family is invited to visit a baby before friends. All in all it will depend on the new parents and who they decide to have come visit. They may choose no one. They may choose only grandparents. They may choose everyone.
Friends and family are two different terms because they have different connections to a person. They are different words because they are considered as having differing value in a person’s life. You can’t assume that a best friend is the same as family. In this case only Sarah and her husband can determine that.
In the end the mother and the father get to say who comes to the hospital and who comes to their home. The father has far more say than the LW. Molly is either married to the brother of Sarah or to the brother of her husband. Either way she is more closely linked to them than the LW.
This is really pretty simple. Just ask. A lot of the women on here have talked about how they didn’t want visitors but I loved it. Most of my girlfriends (we became friends around 11 so I had been close to them for more than 10 years) came and I liked seeing them. I was the first to have a baby in our group and it was fun sharing some of the experience with these women who have supported me through everything. But as they have had babies I have always asked them when they would like me to visit. Some I went to the hospital and some I saw at home. It is really a personal choice that only the mother can make but don’t make assumptions. Ask her what she wants. Oh and bring muffins or something/offer to help her around the house if you see her there. It’s such a stressful time, every bit helps.
Honestly it’s hard to focus on anything else in this letter besides the whole sympathizing with nazis thang.
LW, you sound hurt about Molly’s breakup and you fear now to lose Sarah. Be cool. There is no reason Sarah will exclude you, unless you act as entitled and obsessed as your post. You seriously need to compromise in your attitude or you will be in more pain. You don’t get any right to visit her at hospital (even more, to be there for the birth, what an odd idea). If she calls you, you may come for, say, twenty minutes. Or you will see her later, when she is at home, there is no hurry, the baby won’t be dramatically different a week later. Anyway, you have to know that visits to a new mother must be very short because the exhaustion is enormous. Don’t put so much pressure on your friend, relax and open your friendships circle to other people. You need other friends, not just one. Try to move on from Molly’s break up and consider your own responsibility. Seriously, you must have said something unacceptable to provoke such a clash. Avoid political discussions, be more careful, try to be more in the compromise and empathy, this will help your life in general.
“Sarah and I have not had a conversation about this because I don’t even know how to bring it up. ”
You don’t know how to bring it up because it isn’t your place to tell Sarah that you should be at the hospital. I think you know that and that is why this is so hard. You have to wait for Sarah to invite you and you are at some level afraid that she won’t. You don’t have to assume that Molly will be at the hospital for the birth. Not everyone has their entire family waiting in the hospital while they are giving birth. Some do and some don’t. Molly won’t be able to stay in town waiting for the baby to be born. Unless there is a scheduled c-section or unless labor is induced the time will be a surprise to everyone and Molly will need to do her usual things like go to work. Molly will then have to travel to your town. Molly will probably be invited to the hospital to see the baby before Sarah goes home just because she is family. It may not seem fair but that is how these things work. If Sarah is your best friend act like it. Be supportive not a nuisance. You really aren’t her primary focus as she prepares for the birth of her baby.
Your choices are to wait until Sarah invites you or try to push your way in and look bad.
LW – You want to instill that you are Sarah’s best friend then have amazon or uber eats deliver what her and her husband like to eat once or twice a week after the baby is born, and mail cookies and cakes. Believe me I still remember with great affection my male boss at the time we had our daughter who had an intern bring us a Costco delivery package with Deli chocolate chip cookies, deli muffins, a cheesecake, 2 reheat-able dinners, some microwaveable snacks, and snack packages (nuts, granola bars, candy) and bottled waters and cokes. It was so wonderful 6 years later writing this I still remember crying getting that 2 days after we were home. To this day it may have been the best gift we received and I am forever grateful that he sent an intern I had never met to deliver the package so I didn’t have to have a conversation. On another note Molly is her sister in law and new babies aunt so she is always going to be at every event going forward, so its time to get used to the idea that you are not going to be there. So if being at these events are that important to you, you are going to need to apologize to Molly and change your views.
Sarah already made her decision. It is surprising to you that your alienating views have, in fact, alienated yourself from the people you say you care about. Sarah is saying she is going to choose her family over you. Respect that and move on.
I wonder why your former best friend thinks you are a bigoted racist Nazi sympathizer….
Yes, do bring this all up with Sarah. Let us know how that turns out.
Since the Trump-loving and family values crowds have a lot of crossover, this shouldn’t be difficult for you to grasp: Molly is family. Family comes first. Regardless of her newfound liberal politics, Sarah and her family seem to have found a way to comfortably spend time with Molly whether they share her beliefs or not.
If Molly’s beliefs have changed since moving to the city, I have to imagine that at least some of Sarah’s extended family have beliefs that are similar to yours…has Molly drawn the line with any of them? Maybe there’s a line you’ve crossed that they haven’t? Or, maybe she’s choosing her battles and finds it easier to throw down about seeing you than deciding she won’t ever talk to her in-laws again.
The thing with disagreements over political/religious/what-have-you beliefs is that you don’t get to decide how offended the other person gets to be. And the fact that you had a discussion rather than an argument makes no difference…as the Trump regime shows us daily, it’s entirely possible to spew hate-filled, racist garbage with a smile on your face.
If you want to maintain the friendship with Sarah, be a good friend…you can start by recognizing that her baby’s arrival isn’t all about you. Let her know you’re excited for her and eager to meet the new baby and then follow her lead. If you try to force the issue and make her choose, you’re not going to like the outcome.
AJ
Nazis are bad. Period.
Supporting nazis is a very good reason to end a friendship. No way would you be allowed anywhere close to my children!
I cannot stand by a Trump supporter either. Deal breaker.
Look—I would never want visitors at the hospital! When I had my first baby, I had a horrible double room and my horrible roommate had a ROOM full of people. And I had trouble just walking. It sucked a rooski! My mom and MIL came (and my grammy, god love her) and that was okaaay. But honestly, the next week would have been better! When I had my second, we did not tell anyone until we were home from the hospital and it was SO MUCH BETTER.
The Nazi LW still grates my last nerve. What a entitled brat / dolt / deranged fool.
I have three friends who are liberal but I tell them I will not discuss politics. I love those friends anyway.
Gosh, misa, that’s big of you! Your friends have decided they don’t support an authoritarian takeover over American democracy, lawless murder of American citizens, racist, transphobic, and homophobic policy and rhetoric, invasion of foreign countries, the attempted takeover of an ally’s territory, the abandonment of the US Constitution, vengeful and illegal attempts to prosecute perceived enemies, and the extraordinary attempts to shield a dead pedophile. Among other things. But you, lovely you, you’re friends with them anyway! How nice. Why they’re friends with YOU is a complete mystery. You might be on the lookout for that to change.
I’m going to assume that LW has never experienced child birth. If she had, she would not be bothering her friend with her b.s. Do not, I repeat do not bother your friend with this crap. Ask her if she’d like you to visit her in the hospital and let her answer guide you. Do not bring this drama into it. Your friend is going to be dealing with physical pain, discomfort and wild hormonal changes (for a start) in the days and weeks after the birth. Trust me, she is not going to be game for this ish. Be the bigger person, end of story.
This is no longer a matter of political opinion. We have an administration that is using Nazi slogans and white supremacy songs, shooting innocent mom’s in the face and killing them, terrorizing cities, and disappearing legal immigrants and citizens.
Honestly, this is totally ethics and anyone supporting the psychopaths running our current government can’t have any. I’m kind of hoping you are kept away from that baby forever. Hopefully you’ll open your eyes sooner than later, though like most Republicans, it won’t be until something affects you personally!