“My Friend Resents Me For Making More Money Than She Does”
A few weeks ago, I was out with some of these friends and we got onto the topic of jobs and money. Everyone — and I mean everyone — in a party of nine people was complaining about how they don’t get paid what they should. Normally, I say nothing about this topic — I know how lucky I am to have a job I like and be paid well — but the guy who had my position before me made 30K more than I do for less responsibility, so to contribute to the conversation I brought that up, and one of my friends RIPPED my head off.
She works a shit job, six days a week for just over minimum wage. (For what it’s worth, I have always encouraged her to find another job — I send her job postings when I come across them — and to go back to school). She said I had no right to be complaining when other people make way less than I do, and she berated me in front of our other friends. I didn’t say anything at the time because I was uncomfortable.
It’s been a few days now and I can’t stop thinking about this. Was what I said so rude? I know it’s a no-no to talk about money with people, especially in any kind of detail, but what I said was vague and relevant to the conversation. I guess I just missed this lesson in the “how to be an adult” class. Is there a right and a wrong way to talk about money? — Mystified about Money Talk
You were not rude, but you were tone deaf and didn’t really read the room. Things are hard right now for a lot of people and if they aren’t hard for you, the best thing you can do around people who are struggling more than you are is keep your mouth shut about your financial circumstances – and that (especially) includes any and all ways you think you aren’t being compensated enough. It doesn’t make you relatable in the way I think you hope it does.
The problem is that your friend is still going to see you as someone who has it so much better than she does, and your expressions of anger or hurt feelings aren’t going to change that. If she already thinks you have no right to express any dissatisfaction or complain about your job in any way, then she probably doesn’t believe you have any right to express any complaint about her complaining about you complaining. And doing so will likely just succeed in putting her further on the defensive and creating even more tension between you.
I say let it go and make a mental note to: A) limit your time with this person; and B) avoid conversations about jobs, career, and money around her. I’d also suggest ceasing with any advice or assistance you’ve been giving her in terms of finding a new job or career/academic path.
I’d also be careful not to place too much of your own self-worth or value on the amount of money you have or the quality of your possessions. Take pride in your accomplishments and the way you treat people. You can lose money and jobs and things, but your accomplishments and support system are yours for as long as you don’t take them for granted.
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LW you did nothing wrong….it sucks that you can’t contribute to a conversation about money without people tearing you a new one (not cool on her part)….just because you are in a different pay bracket should not automatically disqualify you from having an opinion….as a general rule i tend to avoid any conversation around money, politics and religion (unless asked of course)….personally i think how much a person makes is no ones business but there own….i know because i have a Phd people assume i am super rich and i have had friends assume i will foot more of the bill when going out….i have had boyfriends expect better gifts, stupid things like that….hell my own family expects me to pay when we go out to restaurants….not sure what my point is here….i guess unfortunately it is better to keep your money situation to yourself, but i do believe a true friend would be happy to see you doing well and being financially secure….so maybe avoid the bitchy friend from now on
She did do one thing wrong and that was not knowing her audience. LW, you are going to maneuver this your whole life. So with people who make less than you, just keep quiet.
This could’ve been written by me. I have friends who are very resentful that I got a job in my chosen field with a fair salary. But guess what? I stayed in a city because there are more jobs there. I temped while I was unemployed to gain more experience. I volunteered and I applied to about 80 jobs before I got ONE job offer.
You’re friends shit job and shit pay are her fault. Yes, the economy has been rough for the past few years, but the LW and I (and all the other gainfully employed 20 somethings out there) are proof that it is possible to find gainful employment in a lot of areas of the country. I don’t mean this to sound insensitive to those who are struggling to find work, I used to be there. But I think during the recession I ran into two different types of people: those who were like thomas the tank engine and just kept trying, and those who basically decided to blame society and the economy for all of their problems instead of looking at what they can do to improve their life situation.
Anyways, your friend is lucky she said this to you instead of me because I would’ve read her the riot act. I personally stop hanging out with these people. And while they are your friends, part of your early 20s may include making new friends who have a more similar lifestyle as you.
Also, don’t talk about money, ever. I don’t tell any of my friends what I make.
My best friend is a pharmacist and her husband is a doctor and they make more money in a year than I would in 5……but it doesn’t matter. A good friend doesn’t make you feel bad for making a lot of money, or making less money. When I look at her huge 4 bedroom house compared to my tiny 750 square foot house, yes, I get jealous – but she went to school for 7 years! She earned her house and her income and I would never begrudge her that. I got my degree in 3.5 years and found a job I love – it’s just never going to make me rich.
My BFF knows that I struggle financially sometimes, so she knows that suggesting shopping trips or far away vacations is not a good idea. And I know complaining about money in front of her will just make her feel self conscious about the successes in her life.
You should tell your friend that how much money you make is none of her business, and that it makes you sad you can’t even join a conversation. She was rude, and you shouldn’t be ashamed of your successes.
A good friend will be happy for you and your successes. You weren’t rubbing anything in — you were just trying to be a part of the conversation. Honestly, your friend lacks maturity.
Everyone is allowed to “vent” about their jobs sometimes — regardless of how much money they make.
Shit like this is exactly why I refuse to participate in money conversations. My mom doesn’t even know how much I make. Your friend was definitely the rude one, but I would just never ever engage in these conversations. Not worth it, IMO.
LW, please follow Wendy’s advice. Personally, I do not discuss my financial status with others, including how much I make, my savings, investments, potential new job salaries, etc. That is private information between my husband and I. If someone goes fishing for this information (my Dad most likely), I am very aloof and don’t engage them at all. That’s what works for me, but find what works best for you.
Unfortunately I think your friend is fed up with you, either because she just doesn’t like you anymore, and is jealous, or you talk about money a lot. Either way I guess it is best just to bring her to group friend status, and don’t share you life anymore, because if she was your real friend she wouldn’t be that pissed at you. Also my friends who make gross amounts of money never talk about it, well I HAD one who talked about it all of the time, and we all hated him, and it was awesome when he got fired from his VP job.
I don’t think you were rude at all. I think you were trying to join in a conversation, which is generally what people do in a social situation. Your friend is the one who is rude. If she’s not comfortable with her financial situation, that’s her problem and she was passing it off on you. I would follow Wendy’s advice on this one.
And can I just say that it drives me nuts when people pull the “other people have it so much worse so you aren’t allowed to complain” thing? It really annoys me. It means that there is exactly one person in this whole world who is allowed to complain. It drives me nuts. The fact that other people make less/are in more pain/have a shittier situation/have it worse in general does not really lessen what’s going on with the person. I understand it is good to keep it in perspective, but I really hate when people make it seem like it’s not ok to vent if someone else has it worse.
Seriously! I am hoping to get a new job within the next 1-2 years, and my family and some of my friends get offended when I say that because “I have it good” and “work for a good company.” First, it’s not their job to begin with, so they don’t really know what I put up with daily. Second, I hate that because I happen to work for a well-known company, that people act like I am never allowed to have another job and should just stay put indefinitely. Never mind the fact that I want to achieve goals that my company can’t help me with…I should just stick around and not look for better, right?
💯 I once heard it put this way. Say you’re in the hospital with a broken ankle, which really hurts. But the person in the hospital bed next to yours is in because they had their leg amputated. Yes, that is a worse situation than your broken ankle. And you absolutely feel sorry for the person who had their leg amputated. But that doesn’t make your broken ankle hurt any less. You have the right to feel how you feel about your situation.
Envy will suck the joy out of any friendship.
The only thing I have seen work was when the individual stressed that he/she had simply gotten a lucky break and was now worried about screwing it up.
Some folk seem able to “forgive” luck, just as they might still enjoy a friend who won a couple hundred $K lotto.
It sounds like you ~know~ not to talk about finances with these friends, but you slipped up hoping to just add to the conversation? (Which, I don’t blame you, if everyone was talking about it!) Your friend was rude to totally attack you; I probably would’ve turned the “you have no right to complain thing” back onto her, because I hate that line of thought (like, if you have certain privileges, then you aren’t allowed to complain. Fuck that, none of us should be complaining then, as long as we have food & shelter, or something, huh?)
But okay, WWS especially regarding the trying-to-help thing. Don’t send jobs to these people. It will only stoke their resentment— they’ll feel like you’re pitying them, & then they’ll feel pressured to succeed in their application (if they do apply), & if they don’t succeed, then they’ll feel even worse. Let them figure out their own shit, & don’t talk money.
Your friend was wrong to snap at you; it sucks that the guy in the position before you made so much more than you and, in that respect, it is important to talk about money and know what fair pay in your industry is, so that you can make sure you are being paid appropriately. If everyone was bitching about money, your contribution was a totally valid one, and not one you should feel bad about.
I don’t think your friend snapped at you because of what you said. I think your friend snapped at you because a) She’s been trying and failing not to resent you for your success (giving her the benefit of the doubt here. Could just be a biotch) and b) The job ads and tips you’ve been sending her have brought her to a breaking point.
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean well. But unless she came to you and asked you to teach her your job having ways, I can see where the constant tips and advice and suggestions to get a new job or go back to school can seem like nagging. Especially if she hears it from her family, I can get her not wanting to hear it from friends. And I can also see how she might think you see her as your pity project; your poor, underemployed friend who you have to send job postings to because she can’t find a job herself.
Even if that’s so far from your intention (the beginning of the post makes it seem like you are well aware that you are in a very good place compared to many of your peers), I can see someone already down on themselves and their situation taking your well intentioned advice and help that way.
Love, an underemployed, but very glad to be employed, twenty something.
Wendy’s response was right on, but I just want to add that you should never feel guilty or apologize for being able to support yourself financially. And if someone ever uses the passive aggressive line on you: It must be so nice to have XXXX(insert nice thing here) – just respond, “yes, it is nice”.
I think not saying anything at all was absolutely brilliant! She exposed herself to everyone there with her jealous tantrum and it is always best to not engage the unreasonable in an argument. When they finish their tirade, nosy question, offensive statement, it’s: raised eyebrows….beat….beat….and turn away to talk to someone else.
um…. during a conversation about money woes, and how bad the economy sucks, bla bla bla- you added in how the guy before you made significantly more and you got yelled at for it? that is a legit thing to add to a conversation about how shitty the economy/job market is. it doesnt even matter how much you make, thats just a general comment on the culture we are in now.
i dont get that. and i disagree with whoever said above that is actually WAS such a big deal. the proper response should have been something like “wow, even your job’s salary got wayyyy cut! see! its everywhere!”
i dont get why money is always such a huge thing. i dont care about talking about money. ill talk with whoever about it.
This is something I will never understand. Why do y’all talk about money? I hate money conversations. It’s no one’s damn business to know I make X salary and so-so makes Y. The only reason I know some people from work’s salaries are because they talk about it, and quite frankly I think it’s tacky. Extremely tacky. My parents know how much I make. That’s it. My close friends and I all know about a general ballpark figure about each other, but that’s all. I don’t discuss money matters. Because shit like this letter happens.
In my opinion, that was a big faux pas. She played the numbers game, and to me that really isn’t cool at all. Surely she gave thought to what she was going to say prior to saying it.
Jealousy sucks….when you feel it, and when it is directed at you. LW, you did nothing wrong, at all. Just because you are in a better position doesn’t mean others get to try and minimize your issues. It shows what kind of friend this girl really is, and that sucks too.
This is hard because 20s and 30s are when the “great divide” happens re: career choices, jobs, marriage, kids, all of it can change friendships. People on a great professional career track are going to have a different life and opportunities than people working $15 an hour. It is hard and I watched it happen in my own life, (though grad school keeps you poor for a while…) While I never had these confrontations like you did, it is just sort of a natural thing that someone making less money can’t afford to go out, go on expensive trips, etc. And once I had a kid, I felt “poor” again because all of our extra income went to baby stuff, childcare (a biggie!) and I just didn’t feel like going out as much. Now I see it in who can or can’t afford music, dance, ski lessons, nice summer camps for their kids and who can’t.
LW, Wendy’s advice is really smart. I have had to stop talking about work when I’m with my friends. We’re mostly in entertainment-focused careers, so money is tight, and it’s rare that anyone is where they want to be. I’m the “lucky one,” except that the company I work for is driving me insane with how it’s run and how the CEO merges his personal and business affairs. But I say nothing, even though it makes me feel really lonely sometimes, until I’m with my friends that either make more than me or work in a completely unrelated field. People can be really mean when they’re unhappy with their situation. I would work to make new friends in your professional field, or people who are professional-tracked in general, because, quite frankly, it is BS that someone would make that much more than you with less responsibility. It’s not unreasonable to want to be heard and feel valid in a friend conversation, and you’ll get better at navigating those conversations. I’m sorry your friend reacted so horribly.
Eh, I don’t know. On the one hand I don’t talk about money because it feels tacky and braggy. And I certainly wouldn’t specifically refer to my salary in a mixed crowd. But with a close friend, I wouldn’t expect them to bite my head off over it either. Yes one should be aware that money is a sensitive topic, but I still have high standards for close friends and that includes not taking out your insecurities on me or being resentful of my success.
I get where both the LW and her friend were coming from, and I think they were equally rude/unthoughtful in this particular situation. It would have been fine to talk about how you’re sick of your job, or overworked or hate the people you work with, but this is a classic “know your audience” situation. You shouldn’t have discussed money with them, and your friend shouldn’t have made a stink about it.
Next time just say nothing.
I get massive privilege guilt when discussing not even money, but lifestyle issues. For a while we were renting my in-laws’ old house which was this super-nice 4-bedroom (way too big for us) with basement and bar and everything, and I was actually embarrassed about inviting some of my college friends over sometimes. Even without *discussing* money, it just felt so… conspicuous that we were doing well financially (even though we only had that house because we got a family rent discount, it would have cost a fortune in rent on the open market). So whenever I find myself talking about money/income/lifestyle, even without any concrete figures, I couch it in language of “thank goodness, we lucked out,” etc.
And I can’t even do the “I worked a bunch of shit jobs to get where I am” speech, because I didn’t. I had a couple shit jobs, but not for very long, and even those shit jobs weren’t so bad. I landed a sweet gig at the newspaper while I was in college (mostly thanks to connections with newspaper folks) and that stuck for a long time, and then I moved directly to the company I’m with now. My husband and I have had a lot of just plain dumb luck to get where we are, and we recognize that.
Our close friends are all cool with it, everyone knows the situation, it’s mostly with acquaintances, old friends we haven’t talked to in a while, or new friends we’re just getting to know, that it just feels so AWKWARD.
In my opinion, it makes a huge difference whether you actually dropped that 30K figure, LW. Did you say, “I found out my predecessor made more than I do for less responsibility,” or “I found out my predecessor made $30K more than I do for less responsibility” …?
I mean, in a conversation about how everyone deserves more pay for their hard work, the first, I think, makes sense when you are reaching for a way to contribute to the (awkward, probably boring) topic. Your friends already know your general financial situation (comfortable) so there is no need to ignore it. But dropping specific numbers – especially such large ones – is rude as a rule and certainly insensitive to those who don’t make nearly as much. If it was the latter, don’t sweat it too much, but do take note for next time, and definitely take Wendy’s advice.
I’m with you in that I’m not 100% sure that she actually dropped the number in conversation, and that would make a huge difference.
Yeah, it was rude of you to say what you did, but it was also rude of your friend to BERATE you about it and rude of your entire friend group to go on a money rant that not everyone could relate to. Next time say nothing or try to commiserate with them about THEIR situation. Money is a tricky subject, but no trickier than weight or relationships or any number of other topics. You wouldn’t tell your overweight friends that you really wish you could lose 3 pounds and you certainly wouldn’t forward them weight-loss advice. You wouldn’t complain to your (miserable) single friend about how HARD it is to pick out the perfect wedding dress, either. And you really, really shouldn’t have complained to 9 friends who probably make less than $30K about how you wished you made $30K MORE. I know you didn’t say that, exactly, but that’s how it came across.
When discussing salary in the future, I think it’s best to stick to percentages instead of actual numbers. That guy who used to work there made 10% more than you, you got a 15% raise, etc. And please, stop forwarding your friends job offers or giving them career advice. It’s just adding insult to injury.
There’s probably a backstory here that’s more important than the actual comment you made. You mentioned that you encouraged your friend to go back to school or find another job. Stop doing that. Unless a friend actively asks you to comment on their job situation, you shouldn’t say anything. It’s inevitable that the “encouragement” comes across as criticism, especially from someone who’s more conventionally sucessful. Maybe it really is your friend’s fault that she still works a “shit job” (hey, at least she’s got a job), but if you think so, keep it to yourself, and 100% so. Anything else just poisons the friendship.
Your friend is not your friend. Take good stock of who defends you, and who sits passive. You didn’t say anything wrong or do anything wrong. You were contributing to thr conversation as it relates to you. Everyone at that table was at different levels.
Just because you were poverty stricten and living paycheck to paycheck doesn’t give her the right to throw a jealous tantrum. She was f’ing rude, and owes you an apology.
This is why classism exists. You ever notice how pretty girls tend to hang in clique groups of other pretty girls? Or how affluent rich hang with other affluent rich? Its not because they’re hateful or mean.
Its because they dont want destiny snappers, evil eye, jealousy ruining things. Your friend is not your friend.
In the future, id invite her less to outings and only go with people who are supportive and reconize that you have struggles too.
What the LW did is a form of virtue signaling. No one wants to be talked down to or shown up. Knowing that your friends are less fortunate financially, this is a good time to do something, not say something. Like offer to treat. If people want advice let them ask for it. Sometimes people just need to vent. I’m sure your friends are well aware of how good your job is.