“Should I Fight to Keep Him?”
When he broke up with me he had to do it while drunk. He told me the “intangible” was missing and that his friends said I deserve a guy to be head over heels in love with me so he should break up with me. He told me he hasn’t liked a girl as much as me in a long time but his heart isn’t in it. His sister is going through a pretty bad divorce after two years of marriage and his parents had a nasty divorce. He kept saying he didn’t want to make the same mistakes. He told me he has never asked a girl to remain friends before during a breakup but he wanted to keep me in his life because I’m so great.
The thing is, I have dated a lot and what we had seemed great and was unique. I’m surprised he would throw it away over the “intangible” after only three months and let his friends convince him that this is the right thing to do without even talking to me about it. I know I do deserve a guy who is going to love me and want to take the next step with me, but I don’t expect or want that after just three months of dating. I don’t know if I should just let him walk away without a little more effort from me. Would you try to talk to him about it? Or would you just let it go? Would you be friends? — Fight or Flight?
Yeah, I would let it go, and no, I would not try to be friends. What’s the point in being friends? You don’t want to be friends with him. You want to date him. And he, for whatever reason, has decided he doesn’t want to date you. But instead of making a clean break, he’s being all wishy-washy about it and thinks that by keeping you on the line as a “friend,” he might have the luxury of changing his mind eventually and getting you back relatively easy.
The truth is, he has reservations about you. It happens. All the time. And he decided rather than continue on undecided, he’d end things with you now. The three-month mark is a pretty typical time in a relationship for that kind of decision to be made by one party or the other. I don’t know that it has anything to do with your friends or you being more educated or his sister going through a divorce of any of that. Maybe he simply felt you were exhibiting more serious feelings than he was having and he didn’t want to lead you on. Maybe spending so much time with your friends in recent weeks was making him feel like you two were a little more of a “couple” than he was comfortable being.
In the end, does it really matter what the reason was for him breaking up with you? He said his heart wasn’t in it. Isn’t that as much of an answer as you really need after three months? He liked you, but not enough. I’m sure he does think you’re great and smart and all of that, but it’s just not enough. I can imagine that must be confusing for him. Haven’t you ever dated or known someone who seems great for you on paper, but for whatever reason the spark just isn’t quite there? Just because you felt it with him, doesn’t mean he felt it with you. I know that’s a hard pill to swallow, but it happens. He wasn’t a jerk about it. He didn’t screw you over. He just decided he wasn’t into it. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. I say keep your dignity and MOA. Make a clean break. Save the fighting for something really worth fighting for.
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It really is terrible when you geniunely like a person and enjoy their company, but know that it won’t progress any farther. You don’t want to hurt the person, but you don’t want to lead them on either. I’d say this is a kinder, gentler version of “being cruel to be kind”. No sense in continuing to date you and giving you the wrong impression.
I’d say you’re actually pretty lucky that he expressed (in his drunken way) what was on his mind, and broke things off–even if he did try to leave that “friends” door open. After only a few months of dating, plenty of people (men and women alike) have been known to just start fading away, leaving you confused and upset. You know where you stand with him, and can move on with your life. It sucks to have something not work out that you had high hopes for (believe me, I know) but at least you aren’t getting strung along for weeks, wondering what on earth is going on.
Take some time to yourself, be disappointed, be sad, hang out with friends, and then when you feel ready, get back online and out there. There’s more dating to be done!
Hmmm….. I read this letter differently than Wendy. The guy seems like he probably is in love with her (or close to it), but chickened out because he’s afraid of emotional closeness — probably from the trauma of all the family divorces. The things he said about the LW being smarter and more successful sound like a (lame) pretext on which to break up with her. I think he wants to keep her in his life as a “friend” because he’s obviously very attached to her, and afraid of losing her entirely.
But whatever his reason for the breakup, I agree with Wendy that she should just move on. He sounds like he is a little immature for a few reasons: 1) he lets his buddies decide who he dates, 2) He has failed to deal with his baggage from his parents divorce, and 3) he wants to “just be friends” (mature guys know that you can’t have your cake and eat it too.) And why would you want to fight for an immature guy who doesn’t seem to know what he wants?
I dont totally disagree with you here but two points i want to bring up, 1. That’s not letting your buddies decide who you should date or not, because if he actually was concerned that he wasn’t “feeling it” and wanted advise from close friends on “what would you do” type situation, then i think he saw their point, understood that yes in fact that is the right thing to do. Simple as that, they didn’t demand or (from what i gather) say they would think he’s less of a friend/person. 2. I am a mature adult, and i still have 2 friends of mine that i actually dated for the same amount of time in tghe past and were and still are able to be friends even after , so yea, i can have my cake and eat it too, so can other mature people out there.
I don’t disagree that exes can be friends eventually, just not right away. Especially if you’re the person being dumped – it feels like a weak consolation prize.
When I think of “fighting to keep” something or someone, I think it absolutely has to be reciprocated. It is may be worthwhile to fight against odds, family/friends, cultural/religious differences, etc. But when you’re fighting to keep someone who doesn’t want you, that will most always end badly for everyone involved. MOA and find someone who will appreciate you completely, not because you had to talk him into it/beg him to stay, but because he WANTS to be there.
I always considered the blunt term for “fighting for someone who doesn’t want you” to be “desperate.” Not that this LW necessarily IS desperate, but that trying to be with someone who’s told you they don’t want you can certainly be categorized as desperate behavior.
Definitely agree!
And not trying to take away from what was obviously an enjoyable few months for the LW, but we are talking about 3 months here. I think the LW is certainly entitled to let him know she’s disappointed, but I don’t think we need dramatic moments, declarations of undying love, huge fights, etc. I think the LW is curious if she should speak up and let him know she disagrees and/or is disappointed, and by all means. But this was not a long-term relationship, marriage, what have you. There’s not much to actually fight for, if that makes sense.
thats exactly what i was thinking- what “us” really is there after only 3 months?
LW – Why would you want to fight for this relationship? If he truly ended it because he was uncomfortable around your friends, then how can you change the situation to get him back? Are you going to dump all your friends and hope that makes him happy (not that he is suggesting that)? If he is uncomfortable getting too involved with someone because of his sister’s and parents’ divorces – how could you rectify it? These things are out of your control and are not going to change. I would cut ties with him (explain that maintaining a friendship is not something you can do) and try to meet someone new. Maybe not having you around will make him reevaluate his feelings and ask you back out. Maybe you will finds someone new who fits better. Good luck.
The guy is insecure all right. He is more worried about a potential divorce down the road because of his family’s history than worrying about the here and now. He’s going through a bit of a mini-relationship identity crisis of his own thanks to his sister’s divorce, which brings back memories of his parents’ divorce. This isn’t your fault.
Because he’s so wishy-washy, I wouldn’t be friends. Why? He wants to be friends in case he changes his mind. He thinks that it will be easy to pick up where he left off in case he does change his mind, meaning he thinks of your current relationship (and future friendship) as disposable to his current needs. That’s not exactly the kind of foundation to base a relationship on, is it? Disposability to one’s needs?
Move on.
LW, just let it go. It ended with your pride intact, I think you handled the situation great. Do you really want to be with someone who lets his friends influence who he should and should not date? (lame) It sounds like he wanted to end it and he sugar coated it. If I was you I would not contact him anymore. Right now you are missing him (that is normal). But you know what, in time you will feel a lot better and then you can focus on finding a real man, not some guy who comes up with lame excuses and doesn’t even have the courage to break up with you without getting drunk (not manly at all!).
It sucks, but he’s not interested. Like Wendy says, sometimes that happens. At least he had the kindness not to lead you on forever and was honest that his feelings weren’t there and let you know that you deserved more (and you do – one of the worst feelings is loving somebody who doesn’t love you). He definitely could have gone about it in a doucher way. Chin up and onto the next!
I think the reason you want to “fight” for this is because you’re unsure about why he really ended it. You don’t know if it was because of his insecurities, his friends, his sister’s divorce, or if he just wasn’t feeling it. Because you don’t know, you have leeway to rationalize why it could work. If he’d just said “I’m not into you, sorry” or “I don’t want a serious relationship right now” you’d probably have the closure you need to let it go.
I also think part of the reason you want to “fight” for this is because you want to prove to him that you’re NOT too smart for him, that your success doesn’t undermine him at all, that you aren’t that kind of person. But don’t be mistaken about this. He said those things to you. He exhibited obvious insecurities over it. If you were to get back together with him, those things wouldn’t just go away. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone where you have to constantly reassure them that no, you don’t think you’re better than them, and no, your success doesn’t take anything away from him? Having to constantly reassure someone and stroke their fragile ego would kill any relationship, and fast.
You need to be with someone who feels turned on by your success and your brains, not insecure! That alone proves to me that you shouldn’t try to make it work with this ex.
As a total aside, this story reminds me of this girl I knew. She’d been dating a guy for 6 weeks when he decided he wasn’t feeling it anymore. He told her that “They were in different places in their lives,” and ended it. He was 25, she was 23. To an outsider, this was obviously a “let you down easy” bullshit excuse. She took that and RAN with it. She decided that he was ready for marriage, and thought she wasn’t. She she then tried to convince him that they really WERE in the same place in their lives, and she was ready for marriage too (at 23!). I think you could FEEL this guy kicking himself for not using a better excuse to dump her.
Not saying the LW is in this position. Her ex could have been totally truthful, or he could have been letting her down easy. The point is – she wouldn’t be the first person to focus on the excuse (and trying to change it) instead of seeing through to the obvious – you just got dumped. Let it be.
hi guys, long time lurker, thought i might start to join in…
first off, wendy is absolutely right in that when a guy tells you he doesn’t want a relationship, his reasons really don’t matter. he told you he’s not interested, and that’s really all you need to know.
you should move on. trust me, staying friends with a guy you want to date is just too hard, and it’s not going to get any easier. you still have feelings for him, and it’s no fun to watch your “friend”
date other girls. and then call you to complain about the problems he’s having with her. i’ve been there, done that. it sucks, and it’s not a road you want to go down. especially if you’re only three months into the relationship. it’ll hurt, but waaaay less than how much it’ll hurt when you’re a year or two into a friendship, and much more invested in this person. plus, it wreaks havoc on your self esteem to have this wonderful friendship with a great person you still have feelings for, and hear them say, “i love you, but i just don’t want to be with you.”
that said, i don’t think reaching out to him would necessarily be a bad thing. the biggest thing that jumped out at me about your letter was your (seemingly) total lack of communication. communication is the most important thing in any kind of relationship between two people. sometimes it’s more important *why* people do what they do, rather than just *what* they do.
it sounds like this guy has a lot going on. maybe he really did have feelings for you, and seeing his parents’ divorce, and now his sister’s, scared him into thinking that’ll be his fate too. maybe he’s really just not into it. maybe he was feeling a little insecure, and looking for a little reassurance from his girlfriend. you have no way of knowing, unless you talk to him. it sounds like he was actually trying to talk to you, and you just “shut down” and “showed no emotion.” that probably left him feeling pretty confused, and possibly hurt. guys aren’t mind readers. if you show no emotion whatsoever, he may just think that it didn’t matter to you. maybe he didn’t put up a fight because you didn’t. who knows.
you’re the only one that can say if, at three months, if it is worth it for you to even bother with a conversation. but if you really felt there was something there, i can’t see how it would hurt. i wouldn’t hold out any great hope that he’s going to tell you “just kidding, i didn’t mean it,” but you both may just walk away from the conversation with a little perspective on the situation rather than spending time wondering what happened.
at worst, you’ll walk away from that conversation with exactly what you have right now. at best, maybe you can understand each other a little bit better, and learn something for future relationships, like better communication skills. if you can’t have an open and honest conversation with your SO about the difficult things, even in a relatively new relationship, i can’t see much hope for that relationship.
if at the end of it all, if he still says he can’t be in the relationship, wish him well and go your own way. don’t try to keep up a friendship with him. but there’s no reason not to end things on as amicable a note as possible.
Maybe I’m reading into it too much, but I hope you and your friends don’t define yourselves by your degrees…that is just lame…
Anyways, I would second he got scared off because of his witnessing bad relationships…but if your friends were giving him reason to feel not up to snuff then he obviously wouldn’t state that as the reason if he is insecure about it.
If he was scared off by divorces I would talk to him…dont push too hard though. If he resists significantly you should save the headache and walk away.
I didn’t get the impression the LW and her friends define themselves by their degrees. It seems more likely that he was defining them by their degrees. I tried online dating in the past and I found it hard to admit to people that I’m a phd student. I got a LOT of rude responses from people more than willing to assume that my goal is to be smarter than everyone else, when the truth is, my dream job requires a phd, so I’m doing my best to get one. I’m obviously biased by my own experiences though.
My best friend from work has his phd. He stopped mentioning his degree because people he met would noticeably talk to him differently when they found out. So I get where you are coming from.
Its like people who went to Harvard. There is no non-douchey way to say you went to harvard. Even the attempt at non-doucheyness is douchey. If you are confident and happy about it – I went to Harvard – you sound stuck up. If you pause before you say it, like you’re embarrased, or try to downplay it, you sound stuck up. If you say “I went to school in Boston”, you get there “where?” and have to say “harvard” so it seems like you were faking modesty and are stuck up. If you say “cambridge MA”, you are answering but not answering, and sound stuck up. You can’t win — same with some degrees. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go to Harvard.
(PS I did not go to Harvard.)
I don’t really get the impression that the LW even wants to make this work or to be friends with the guy. She just seems like she feels bad for him and wants to lift his spirits back up and calm his insecurities. I don’t think there is a need to be mean or erase him from your life, but I think they both should move on.
I once was in love with a guy. We dated for 6 months. He was my dream. He ended it telling me “it feels like an obligation more than a relationship.” For the next year we were “friends” but once I met my current boyfriend the friendship fizzled. You don’t need him as a friend. Just move on and forget him.
Ladies, I’ve come up with the ultimate conclusion to all your problems! Date other ladies. Men are the common denominator in all the problems on this site.
Could the “intangible” mean that “he’s just not that into you”? Because if it is, why would you settle with someone who doesn’t want to be with you anymore? Why would you fight for someone who’s itching to let you go? Don’t even bother fighting – and certainly don’t be his friend. If he wanted you, he’ll do whatever it takes to be with you. The fact that he told you that you “deserve a guy to be head over heels in love with me” is his way of saying that: (a)He’s not that guy (b)He can’t envision being that guy for you so (c)PLEASE MOA already!
Women are constantly trying to convince themselves that a man’s actions mean something other than what they actually mean. If he wanted to be with you, he would be with you. His actions aren’t a reflection of you, they are a reflection of him so don’t take it personally. You aren’t damaged or less than because this particular relationship didn’t work out.
MOA LW, you’ll find a guy who is looking for the same thing that you are.
I think I was in kind of the opposite position once. I had a “thing” going on with a guy that started out casual, and we had a good time, but then it started to turn more serious and I freaked out a little and ended it. I told him that I wasn’t ready to really date anyone *seriously* – which was true – but he was convinced that it was just a line and demanded to know the “real” reasons that I was calling it off. Honestly, he was a good guy, and I think I just wasn’t “feeling it”….. and instead of just accepting that, he made it into a big thing, dragging my friend into the middle of it, sending me really long facebook messages, etc. basically telling me he was going to “fight for me” so to speak. It turned me WAY way off. And he handled it so immaturely that there is really no way I would consider EVER giving it a go again, AND he destroyed any chance we may have had at friendship (which sucks because we have friends in common and it’s hard to avoid each other).
I say, accept that he wanted to end it for WHATEVER reason, and move on. If he’s just going through something, there’s a better chance that he’ll come back to you when he’s over it if you just let it go and don’t make a big deal out of it.
The thing is,LW,you shouldn’t have to “fight” to keep anyone.And when I say that,I don’t mean you shouldn’t have to work hard to maintain a relationship,I mean that you shouldn’t have to try to convince a guy to like you or want you.
That said,although this guy could’ve expressed himself better(and not been so iffy with the whole “we can be friends” and he shouldn’t have said stuff drunk),he sounds overall like a good guy.He doesn’t like you back but that doesn’t make him a bad person(I’m sure there have been guys who like you that you don’t like). It just means you two aren’t a right fit.It happens.It sucks,but I promise you’ll move on.Luckily,you only had 3 months invested in this relationship.
and regarding being friends with him,if you were friends before you started dating then yes,I see no reason not to continue being friends(maybe not right away,but in due time).However,since you two started off as dating,there’s no reason to try to be friends,especially for you.you don’t want to be friends with him and you’ll hate it when he starts dating other girls.just let him go.
Here’s the simple thing, sweetheart: when a guy breaks up with you, and he tells you all of the reasons why it has to happen, you DON’T BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS! He’s not listing the reasons why the relationship has fallen: he’s saying whatever it takes to reach the desired goal of breaking up.
Breaking up is painful, which explains why he wanted a few drinks before doing it. He wanted to maintain his own dignity, but he also wanted to cause you the least amount of pain possible, because hey, he does actually care about your feelings. So he kept it vague with talk of “intangibles”, mentioned family traumas, and made self-deprecating remarks, all without giving you any firm problems which you might have offered to fix and thus ruin the whole breakup.
So don’t try to analyse what he said, because it means nothing. Accept that he broke up with you and, as Wendy said, MOA.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room, ‘I have a PhD and most of my friends have grad degrees. I noticed when we started hanging out with my friends more he started to get more insecure and say things like I’m smarter than him, more successful, etc.’ Even the age difference, again woman normally go out with older guys.
The vast majority of women want a man who is more successful, better educated, smarter, etc…. Everyone knows it and this guy had his face rubbed in the fact that he wasn’t any of these things when he got to know your friends.
No guy wants to be thought of as the ‘dumbie’ by his girl friend’s snob friends. Your ex boyfriend could see you had higher status and would eventually dump him and to avoid the heartache jumped first.
My suggestion is date guys that are to the right of you on the status bell curve. I know there will be women who say this isn’t true but for vast majority it is.
I really doubt he feels that way about her and her friends. He has a college degree and a good job. A lot of people think that grad students are just people who couldn’t get a real job, or are delaying adult responsibilities. (I’m a grad student btw) I don’t think he’s intimidated by her friends.
Unless by “grad school” she means Harvard law school, most people don’t consider graduate students to be more successful/smarter than college degree holding *great* job holding folks.
I am a guy and if there was betting involved I would but money on the reasons is stated. We aren’t talking about a ‘rational decision making’ process here.
Only takes one of her friends to pass some innocent comment and he is out of there.
I have a female family member who is late 20s, tall blond, blue eyed, model body and looks ….but she is also at the top of area in an advanced maths area, earning serious money for a multi-national. All the boy friends only last a few months at most for the same reason I stated previously.
well, she has a great job and makes a lot of money, thats very very different than being a grad student
I’m also a guy, and this doesn’t seem to be true to my friends, and I. I have friends who only have high-school degrees, and are married to women who are in grad school or have already finished, and have very good jobs, and we hang out with there friends who all went through the same thing, and nobody feels the way you are describing. Myself I have a lesser degree than my fiance, and some of her friends, and never have felt they way you describe. I think it takes a very insecure man to feel that way, but it also could be that like the LW’s ex we all have good jobs so something like maybe doesn’t apply to us as much, but I don’t think it applies to the guy in the letter either. I’m also wililng to bet the women if your family is probably a combination of things, not just her degree.
I am an attorney and I will always make significantly more than my fiance. I don’t care. He doesn’t care. We see our relationship as a partnership and we both bring strengths to the table. He isn’t intimidated and doesn’t feel insecure about my job because he is a real man. Men who define themselves by what they make are totally lame and insecure.
Not only do I disagree with the majority of your comment, I find it pretty sexist as well. “The vast majority of women want a man who is more successful, better educated, smarter, etc…. Everyone knows it and this guy had his face rubbed in the fact that he wasn’t any of these things when he got to know your friends.” Really? God, female Ph.D’s must never get laid! [End rant]
Back to my rational self, I respectfully disagree with the implication that women are outright looking for men who are better than them. I think it has more to do with the fact that women care less about the man’s material qualifications–degree, income, background, physical prowess, etc.–as long as they can have a decent life when they pool their resources.
Men, on the other hand, tend to measure their masculinity by the amount of power they wield in the relationship. Women (I gather) almost always have the upper hand sexually, determining when/if the guy gets any. If the guy isn’t smarter, better paid, stronger, whatever then what does he have? Nobody likes to be powerless. If anything, it’s men with fragile egos that tend to “date down” intellectually so they maintain power.
The vast majority of women want a man who will meet them halfway, who will complement their strengths and weaknesses both personally and materially. The same can be said for the vast majority of men. True, a woman who is weak financially will gravitate towards a man who is stronger in that department, but the reverse is equally true.
I mentally thumb down your comment on the grounds of wildly inaccurate and unnecessary generalization.
I think the LW is looking for excuses, when he really told her why he’s breaking up with her. He’s not falling in love with her. He doesn’t get butterflies when she calls, he doesn’t think about her all the time, etc. And he told his friends that and they said it was kinder (and smarter for him) just to break it off. He deserves to be with someone he’s in love with, just like the LW deserves to be with someone who will be in love with her. I’ve always been able to tell if I was going to fall in love with someone within 3 weeks, and I’m sure the guy and his friends know that this particular guy would know within three months.
btw i really feel for you lw, i’ve been there 🙁 but don’t worry, you’ll forget all about this guy as soon as you meet someone else!
Everything Wendy said in the 3rd paragraph. Could not agree more. Happens ALL the time and exactly at the 2-3 month marker. I’ve been there on both sides of the coin. Sucks no matter which side you are on. But when its right, you sail RIGHT through that 3 month milestone like it was nothing. That’s the difference and its SO worth finding someone with whom that excited connection is undeniable.
It really hurts when someone breaks it off with you at the three month mark. Your relationship is relatively new, but you’ve had time to get invested, spend a lot of time with the person, think about the future. And when something happens or they’re not on the same page as you and they end it, it feels devastating. I know, I’ve been there.
But don’t take that devastated feeling to mean that it really was the right thing for you and you should fight for it. It doesn’t mean that. And if someone feels they don’t have that “intangible” with you, fighting for it is pointless anyway. I think you did the right thing by saying what you felt, with dignity. You told him you liked him, thought you had potential, and were sad, then asked him to leave rather than prolonging the discussion. You can’t really do anything more than that if someone tells you their heart is just not it.
I think you wrote into another advice blog a week or two ago – where you made more of the theory that he broke up with you because of insecurity about your education and success. Like many other people have said, it’s highly unlikely that’s the reason. I’d probably want to think it was that, too, because I think that’s easier to deal with… it’s more about him than you, and it’s something you think you could work through. I’d let that go.
It really sounds like he likes you, wanted it to work, put in a good effort, but decided he should be feeling something more than he’s feeling. You can’t do anything about that, nor should you try. The only thing you can do is keep yourself removed, don’t initiate contact, let your wounds heal, and then move on and continue dating online.
Try to be grateful you didn’t end up spending years in the wrong relationship. My last boyfriend broke up with me around the 3 month mark too… different situation – he was upset with me about something I did after I had too many drinks – but still, I remember how incredibly painful and awful it felt. I couldn’t eat, sleep, listen to the radio, etc. I explained myself to him, and then left it up to him to decide. He did come back, but honestly it should have ended then. It wasn’t right, and if it had been right I wouldn’t have BEEN that drunk at a party with him, he wouldn’t have interpreted what happened the way he did, and the whole situation would not have occurred. It was always wrong, it stayed wrong, and we broke up years down the road having spent way too long fighting for something that shouldn’t have been.
Move on, and feel better!
snooki? haha jk
Ok what in the world does MOA mean, even google isn’t helpful here lol.
Move on already.
I agree with Wendy. I think him being genuine and adult with the break up shows the quality of person he is. He’s looking for something else, and really it has nothing to do with you or your qualities.
We want what we want.
Best wishes LW