“Should I Tell Him I’m Pregnant?”
Flash forward to now, we have developed feelings and started hanging out one-on-one. I’m not breaking any rules by having a relationship with Jake, and we’ve talked about how I will inevitably leave in several months. Needless to say, we’re not expecting a long-term thing out of this, even though I think we would if I were staying or if he were in a position to move closer to me.
Here’s the tricky part: I’m pregnant. I don’t want to give the baby up, I’m heading into a career that will enable me to support myself and this baby, and abortion is definitely off the table. I haven’t told Jake yet, and I can’t decide if I should. Jake’s graduating next May and will be moving to Europe to pursue his masters. He has a lot on his plate and has stated several times that having kids is not in his near future – and we took what we thought was more than enough precaution (pill & condoms) before having sex. He is a stand-up kind of guy whom I believe would drop all plans to make things work for his baby, but I feel so terrible that my news will shatter his goals and plans.
I welcome all advice since I have no one to confide in about this while here. — Baby on Board
If you plan to keep this baby, you absolutely should tell Jake as soon as possible. Think of it this way: at some point you will likely have reason to reach out to him, either for financial support — don’t kid yourself thinking your career will always be secure and you’ll always be financially stable enough to care for your child on your own; shit happens, and you may find yourself in need of help — or because you need information that only he can provide (like family medical history). There are lots of potential reasons why being in touch with your child’s biological father would be helpful, if not even crucial (not the least of which is your child’s desire to know his or her father and actually maybe even have a relationship with him).
Why make reaching out to him in the future more difficult than it has to be by keeping this huge secret from him now? Yes, the news now may be a blow to him. It will affect his plans, just as it will surely affect yours. But imagine how much bigger of a blow it would be for him to hear the news months or years from now knowing that he missed out on so much — that he was never even given the chance to be there for his child. (And imagine the blow to your child learning that you knew all along who the father was and denied him/her the chance to know him). Just because Jake’s saying that kids aren’t in his life plan for the next few years doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have the opportunity to be part of his child’s life. And it certainly doesn’t mean your kid should be denied the privilege of knowing a father who may love and cherish him/her.
Tell Jake. Tell him what your expectations are and give him the same luxury you now have of making informed decisions. This isn’t some guy you had a one-night stand with — and even if it were, you should still tell the guy if you plan to give birth to his child — this is someone whom you have a relationship with and strong feelings for. You care about him, obviously. So treat him with the same respect you’d want him to show you. And know that just because you found out about the pregnancy first, it doesn’t make it “your news” or your issue alone. You had an equal role in this conception. And while you’re carrying the baby and should have the ultimate choice in whether to continue the pregnancy or not, once you decide that you’re moving forward, you share responsibility (and are each entitled to fight for certain rights). Don’t strip the father of whatever rights he may want to fight for, and don’t deny yourself the help you may need some day.
Tell him. The sooner, the better.
***************
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PERFECT answer by Wendy. You must tell him LW.
Yeah…you need to tell him. Don’t be a martyr, here—“Oh, he doesn’t want kids & is heading to Europe, so I’ll just take on the burden myself.” That’s ~not~ a noble thing to do; he deserves to know that he has a child on the way into the world. Give him the choice of whether to be involved/how much he wants to be involved. Don’t make the choice for him.
WWS. It would be really unethical not to tell the father. While he has plans for his future and has voiced no interest in having children in the near future (totally normal!), life happens and you have to deal with it. I can assure you that he will be more upset by you hiding his child from him than “your news shattering his hopes and dream”. Also, once your pregnancy really starts to show I am sure your family and your friends will give you the reality check that you NEED to tell the father.
Yes- he has a right to know you’re pregnant with his child. Tell him immediately.
Why do people think it’s okay to not tell the father?
So they can have full control over the kid. It’s criminal.
Or so they can try to avoid ever seeing the father again. Which I think is only acceptable if there’s some kind of abuse or need to hide.
I’m not saying people don’t do this but it doesn’t really seem that is this LW’s reason.
What EVERYONE said. It is his right to know. I wonder if perhaps you aren’t telling him because you don’t want your deepest fears confirmed: that you tell him and he continues with his plans with little or no regard for you or the baby. While that could happen, I think that, if what you say about yout current relationship is true, it won’t happen. He sounds like a stand-up guy who cares about you. I am sure you will both figure this out together.
Good luck!
WWS.
You have to tell him. Imagine you don’t tell him, and one day in the future your child finds out that he/she hasn’t ever known who their father was because of you. Not because you were protecting them from some deadbeat guy who was no good, but just because you didn’t want to inconvenience the guy.
Your kid deserves to know, and so does the father.
WWS. Also, be honest – the real reason you don’t want to tell him is you want to move back home and not have to compromise in any way regarding the child. It’s not because you want to do the father any favors. The truth is, once he finds out, and if he wants to be involved, like he likely will (of course he could surprise you and want nothing to do with the baby), he will … want to be involved! And that means visitation and joint custody – legal and physical, and you might not like that. And you’ll go to court, and it will be costly, and then you’ll want that child support, and oh the mess you could avoid by not telling him! It also means he might be able to stop you from moving back home, depending on a number of things. … But it would be MORALLY CRIMINAL (in my opinion), to the father and the child, not to tell him. And selfish as hell, to say the least. You have to tell him, and then from this moment on what’s best for the baby dictates everything!
I think you’re right. Maybe the LW thinks she has to make it work (relationship-wise) with the father if HE wants to. Obviously she doesn’t have to do that. LW, it’s OK not to want a romantic relationship with the father of your child, what you must do though is co-parent with him in some way (assuming he wants to be involved). I have a feeling the conversation will be like “I’m pregnant and I want to break up with you”.
I missed the part where she said that they might see potential for a longterm relationship if they could stay in the same place. Now the baby might change this guy’s plans and he might want to stay near the LW. But it doesn’t really sound like LW wants him to.
On point as usual AP! Just want to agree whole-heartedly that a child DESERVES to know both of their parents unless there is something criminal involved (product of rape/incest or there is other significant abuse) and this LW needs to start making her child’s needs a priority, not what would be most convenient for her career or her projection of what Jake wants or needs.
I think a big part of being a parent (not having been there myself) is being aware of other’s needs. Think if you were in your boyfriend’s shoes how you would feel about not being told about your having a child coming into the world in 6.5 months, especially if you were “a stand up guy.” How would you feel as a child if you were deprived of knowing one of your parents because one of your parents didn’t want to inconvenience the other? This is about far more than you, your dreams, and what you want for this child.
Wonder what everyone’s thoughts would be if she said she were having an abortion. Would it change your opinion on telling?
Based on the state of their relationship, i.e., it’s not a ONS, I still think she needs to tell him.
Or I should say WOULD need to tell him 🙂
It wouldn’t change my opinion.
It’s such a tricky subject when the women wants to abort but the man wants to raise the baby.
Oy that’s a good one. I’d say yes she still should tell him, because they are friends and they seem to like/respect each other – it would seem like the right thing to do, if she wanted to. But otherwise, I’d say no. … Which means my opinion did change, because I above I said she absolutely must. But I haven’t figured out in my head why the difference … Screw you, it’s Monday morning, too early for this. Haha.
I think the difference is that…abortion completely changes the outcome of the pregnancy (duh). There is no resulting child. So while it’s still the right thing to do, I think, to at least tell— there’s less urgency.
So to answer the question LBH posed: yes, my advice would still be to tell. However, it would be more of a suggestion & not a commandment?
You’re right. I hadn’t had my coffee yet so wasn’t able to pin point it – but of course that’s it!
I wouldn’t. Unless I were in a committed relationship of course. Then we would make the decision together. But if I got pregnant with a guy that was 1. either a random dude, or 2. I wasn’t in a relationship with, I wouldn’t tell.
Wait, I rescind. In this case, she should tell him because they’re friends. I probably wouldn’t bother telling a one night stand or a fling.
I know a lot of people feel that way, but I don’t see why it makes a difference. Even if its a ONS, I think you should tell. If you’re willing to have sex with someone, don’t you owe them the decency of letting them know? Basically, I feel like its the easy way out that “we” convince ourselves is ok because you feel like you don’t owe him anything.
I totally agree. An unplanned pregancy is a “risk” BOTH parties take when agreeing to have sex. If it happens, BOTH people should know.
I think ktfran meant she probably wouldn’t bother telling the ONS about the abortion, not about having the kid. At least that was your question. If the LW decides to keep the baby, she must tell the father, whether he’s a ONS or friend or committed lovah. If the LW decides to have an abortion? That’s where I think …. I think she need not tell him, but it would seem like the right thing to do if they were friends; but I’m not set on that.
But doesn’t the father have a right to have an opinion on if his child is aborted?
He has the right to have an opinion, but what good is it going to do him to know if the woman doesn’t want the child in the first place?
He can’t force her to carry the baby to term.
I understand that this situation would suck for most men, but I think it’s a risk a man assumes when he has sex. I don’t remember where I read this, but I know of someone somewhere on the internet who has the pro-choice discussion before she even goes home with someone in a bar. She doesn’t have sex with anyone who is not pro-choice.
I think this is a good policy.
I have discussed the fact that I would have an abortion if I somehow got pregnant with every sexual partner I have ever had, including one night stands and friends with benefits… BEFORE we even took an item of clothing off. I just wanted to be upfront and clear about what I was going to do with my body should the worst happen.
However I also lie and always say I am not on birth control (even though I have an IUD) just so there is never any sort of condom, no-condom argument or discussion. Ever. That also happens before I take an item of clothing off. Is that bad?
I also make sure that they like cats beforehand, even one night stands… so the fact that anyone decides to sleep with me at all after that list of discussion points is actually pretty amazing.
I think no. As much as that may suck for him, no. I believe it’s 110% LW’s decision.
Thanks AP. That’s what I meant.
Meh, I really don’t think he needs to know because he likely wouldn’t change my mind. I mean, if it were a ONS and I accidentally got pregnant I honestly can’t imagine calling the dude up five or six weeks later and saying “hey, we got pregnant and I’m having an abortion, just an FYI.” Heck, most likely after this amount of time has passed, I won’t have his number anymore.
How does that knowledge help him? I really don’t think it does.
I mean he could want to raise the baby. Yes, it would be unbeleivable difficult for a woman to carry a baby to term that she had no interest in keeping, but doesn’t a father have a right to his child too? Why does a women get to be the sole decision maker. I understand it’s her body but it’s his child too.
FWIW I have no idea what the right or ethical answer is, I just find it fascinating that one party is the sole decision maker, when it takes two to create a child. And I find it even more interesting that “dead beat dads” are stigmatized, rightfully so, but if a father wants to take on the sole responsibility of raising a child (that the mother wants to abort) he doesn’t get a say.
It is an interesting predicament, but biology dictates that someone is going to get the short end of the stick here. It’s impossible for it to be fair to everyone. There’s no way for fathers to get an equal say in this decision without taking away the mother’s right to her body. It’s unfair, but I would rather it be unfair towards the father than unfair towards the mother, because the mother has more at stake than the father does. Ideally the two people will be able to reach a decision together about it, but if they can’t, I would rather the pregnant person have control over their body than the non-pregnant person.
It’s because although pregnancy is not considered a disease it can still be incredibly dangerous for a woman to go through.
Don’t forget that women used to have no choice in the matter whatsoever, and that the laws in the ‘olden days’ were in favour of father. It’s skewed now as well, but I think that is only fair, considering.
Until medicine finds a way to transfer embryos from a uterus to another uterus, or until men can get pregnant you’re going to have this problem. There’s no way around it.
It’s not ideal for the guy, no. There are things he can do: practice safe sex, not sleep with anyone he’s not in a committed relationship with, only sleep with women who are pro-life, whatever. Of course at the end of the day, it’s still not his choice.
Unfortunately, we can’t let women choose what happens to their body *and* let fathers have a say. So absent a miracle where both can occur, which one is more important to you:
1. That a woman has the final say what happens to her body and the fetus inside of her; or
2. The father of the child can require the mother to have the baby.
No. 2 opens up some problems – what if he decides afterward he doesn’t want the kid? What if he’s not even the father? What if the mother’s health is at risk? Who is going to police all of these factors and decide?
There’s no gray here, it’s either No.1 *or* No. 2. You can’t have both or a third option. So which one do you prefer / which one do you hate least?
AP, I definitely perfer #1. I would HATE to be forced to carry a child to term. But I do think it’s pretty f-ed up that the man has little choice basically because of biology.
Yea but… That’s biology. It’s not a man-made law or church doctrine. It’s how the body works and…. There’s no point lamenting over something you can’t change. It sucks. So does cancer and heart attacks – and fucking snow in late March in Chicago (seriously?!?!?).
Snow? Bahaha. Come visit me in FL, it’s going to be 82 today 🙂
Oh my god. Don’t get me started on this weather. Did you know last year at this time, Chicago was in the 80s. And now it’s 30s. A 50 degree effing difference. I’m sick of it.
GG, would you carry the baby to term if you were in that situation??
It’s impossible to know as I’ve never been there, but I think I would.
But I also am 99% sure I would want to keep the baby. And looking back, I would have kept any babies resulting from any of my partners. If we got pregnant today I’d be thrilled.
If that’s the case, though, why is it morally criminal (not just unfair, but morally criminal) to not tell him if you DO have the child? It’s a woman’s body. It’s still hers, even after it’s fully grown, because it was her who birthed it… not him.
I’m not sure a child EVER belongs to two people, in a moral sense, unless they chose to have it together. If it’s hers before it’s born, and purely her decision, it seems like it should be purely her decision after it’s born, too.
Agree with GG. I cannot like this comment enough. It’s his child too. He has a right to have a say in the matter. Of course, when the parents disagree it is a definite grey area and I’m not sure what the right decision is either, but I think the father should be told and be able to, at least, express his desires on what the best course of action is.
But it’s not a grey area when the parents disagree about an abortion and the woman wants one. Her body, her choice. No woman should be forced to carry a baby to term.
Again: her body, her choice. I cannot emphasize this enough!
Emsz, just for the record- I’m not advocating that a woman shold be forced to carry a child to term if she does not want to. I’m incredibly pro-life, have martched on in DC, signed petitions, donated money, etc etc.
I just think it’s a REALLY crappy situation, where honestly I feel like there is no right or good answer. Denying a parent their child is so wrong in my mind. Denying a woman the right to an abortion is so wrong in my mind. How often is a man forced to support a child he didn’t want and possibly would have aborted? But then a man who wants to raise his child has no rights in terms of the womans right to an abortion. If a woman wants to carry a child to term she can petition for paternity, child support, etc and basically force a man to have a role in the childs life- even if it’s only in the form of money. It’s just unfair either way.
Yes, a it is unfair and it does suck. No one is saying a situation where a man and woman disagree on what to do about an unintended pregnancy is an awesome time for anyone. Just that given biological realities, the best of the worst options is to give the woman autunomy over her own body. That fact doesn’t make the situation any less sucky for anyone involved.
But at that point there is no child. There’s a bunch of cells, so why does he have to know? The guy that made you pregnant is not a father, he is a potential father. So I don’t see a moral dilemma, really.
Also, yeah, I check if my sex partners are pro choice. People who have sex should be on the same page about that.
Many people would disagree with that entirely Cara.
I have to say, Cara, a lot of people disagree. While I’m pro-choice I still beleive that a fetus is a person very early (I don’t have exact # of days/weeks). Personhood is a pretty personal (and hotly debated) subject.
The situation you’re describing IS absolutely unfair, I agree—however. I think biology makes the decision here. A man may ~want~ to keep the child & even raise it himself, but the fact is…he isn’t growing a baby inside his body for 9 months & then delivering it.
I agree here too. It sucks when the parent’s don’t agree on what to do, but you’re right, you can’t force a woman to carry the baby to term. She gets to make the final decision because of biology.
a “child” is not aborted.
a pregnancy is terminated.
there is no reason to tell a man you are having an abortion unless you’re really wishing you didn’t need/want to and hoping he’ll man up (however, this usually fails even when it “works” IME). He doesn’t have a child until it’s born. The woman has a pregnancy to deal with. Especially in early stages.
I grow so weary of the “but but but she has a choice and he doesn’t!” thing where people bitch like it’s some human rights violation a woman can have an abortion but GASP a man has to pay child support for a child he didn’t “want.”
Give me a break. Until our grandmas were starting menopause we didn’t realistically or accessibly have that choice either. And it’s only even more recent than that where a man hasn’t had the “choice” to just up and ditch his offspring.
But more specifically, no, no parent gets to fully abandon a living breathing child. You either make adoption arrangements (like by signing away your rights to her new husband which I don’t recommend at all for many reasons) or step up. So he gets his choice then.
She gets her choice to continue gestating or not. It’s a pregnancy, not a child. He gets a say over his child. Not her pregnancy. It really is that simple. Until it’s born it’s just her body doing weird stuff.
Yea, I know. I mean telling the ONS about the abortion too.
I can’t reply to GG’s last comment, so I’m replying here.
I totally get what you’re saying. I do. And I think it’s crap that if a woman decides to have a baby that the father didn’t actually want, then he has to pay child support. It’s very hypocritical and people suck.
But then there are people like me who, if I decided to keep the baby, I would tell the father. I would also tell him he could have any amount of involvement he wanted. If that was zero, I wouldn’t force him to pay me anything in child support and I would raise the baby on my own becuase it was after all, my decision.
I actually agree that its way unfair for the man. I gave my kid’s bio=father an out, he took it, and told him that if he’s walking away, stay away and you won’t be responsible for $. The court had other things to say about that and required payment.
Interesting. I haven’t been in that siuation and honestly don’t know all of the legal stuff. Yeah, that’s kind of unfair to the dad I think.
I think its pretty unfair. The reasoning is that (like someone else mentioned) the money is for the child…and the court does not want that child to be receiving govt benefits if only one parent cannot afford the child.
LBH did you go through the court’s to terminate his parental rights? Just wondering because my mother never did anything through the courts (custody agreements, child support, parental rights, nothing) and my father was never legally required to pay a cent. I’m actually pretty glad that he didn’t because I feel no obligation to him since he never spent a cent on me, let alone actually tried to forge a meaningful relationship past on a consistent basis.
GG, when I filed for sole custody, the court required me to file for child support too. I had no choice, and apparently that’s how it is always done whether you like it or not. Unsurprisingly, he did not show to the custody hearing and even less surprisingly, he showed to the support hearing.
I don’t think a child should feel obligated to have a relationship with their parent simply because that person was forced to pay the bare minimum.
My mom never filed for sole custody. Which, thinking about it now, was a HUGE gamble. My father is listed on my birth certificate so in theory he could have just popped up and asserted himself at any moment.
Just realized I never answered your actual question. My state does not recognize termination of parental rights unless another person is adopting. Like, I couldn’t wipe him out and say I’m the only parent, but if Peter wanted to adopt, then the rights of the bio-father would be terminated. Its total bullshit! Sorry, I get so angry thinking about what crap that is. A perfectly able person is not allowed to say they are the only real parent, but if a man steps in to help lil ol me, then its cool.
That’s only if you’re trying to get government benefits, though. If you actually can afford the child on your own and aren’t applying for help from the state the court isn’t going to mandate child support. Also not if you’re in hiding from him because he was abusive, although you do have to really convince them that he’s a danger to you and the child.
Although my father wasn’t on my birth certificate so I don’t think she actually had to file for sole custody.
That’s not true actually (at least in the state I am in). I can afford mine on my own, and then some (private school, summer camp, etc. as shown to the court). I never have attempted to get govt benefits. If you want to actually have sole custody and the docs to back that up (which every parent should, imo), the court will require child support too. It might be minimal, but its still required.
Also, in the event you are hiding, the money isn’t exchanged between mom and dad. It goes from dad to third party who cannot give your address to dad.
What state do you live in? That’s definitely not the case here in Tennessee. Everyone has to pay it here, regardless of whether or not the custodial parent could afford it on their own, or whether the non-custodial parent was abusive.
Oh sorry, yea if he wasn’t on birth cert, he wouldn’t have to pay or deal with custody issues. Unless, obviously, if he filed for paternity.
We were in NJ. We were getting government help, but he was not on the birth certificate and when they tried to get his name out of my mother she was so terrified he would find us that the case worker let it go.
Where I am, the court mandating it is entirely different than actually getting that payment.
and support isn’t tied to visitation at all where I am.
Also I can’t wrap my head around people thinking it’s ever so unfair to men. Please. Abortion was not made legal for men’s convenience. It was made legal so women who did not want to be pregnant could stop being pregnant without risking severe health issues or even death.
It was not made legal to enable men to whine it’s not fair they have to pay child support for an actual living breathing child.
If I were dead set on an abortion and it was not up for discussion at all, I would not tell. What would be the point?
Same. I mean, for me, it would essentially be, “Hey, so I got pregnant and I’m having an abortion, and I am not open to compromise, so just FYI.” That seems pointless and kind of cruel, but I’m not going to be forced into having a child.
Also, I’d think that one’s beliefs about “personhood” would come into play. Some people think that a week-old embryo (etc.) is a baby, and some people don’t.
Just curious what you guys think on this added wrinkle to lbh’s scenario:
What if your husband wanted kids and you didn’t (and you were both aware of the other’s opinion on this when you got married, and you both hoped the other would change). You find out you’re pregnant. You don’t want it. You know that if you tell your husband, he’s going to push you to have it. And if you have an abortion after that, you think it will irreparably damage the relationship. So basically if you tell him, either he’ll wear you down to the point where you’ll have it because he wants it so much, or you’ll go ahead and have the abortion and he’ll never see you the same way and possibly never forgive you, because he wanted it.
What would you do?
To me that seems like a dealbreaker that’s been latent all along that would raise its head eventually, ya know? Obvisouly in a particularly painful fashion, but if someone wants kids and their partner doesn’t at a certain point it’s going to become an insurmountable issue in the marriage, pregnancy or not.
I think you never should have gotten married in the first place.
Also, you should lie or keep secrets (like being pregnant!!!) from your spouse.
This happened on Grey’s Anatomy, actually. She told him, went through with the abortion and they divorced. It was a heartbreaking scenario to play out.
If you are married, I cannot imagine not telling your husband that. I’d consider that wrong.
I love Grey’s!
Just to be clear, this isn’t me! But I knew someone in this situation. I agree it’s not smart to get married when you disagree on something like whether to have kids, but they got married young and figured one or the other would change their minds. So given that, and that they didn’t want a divorce, what would you do in that situation?
I’d tell.
Ditto. I would tell too. For gosh sakes, you’re (they’re) married.
The divorce will happen.
Eventually.
I find it odd that a good 90% of people I know who were insistent they were committed to being childfree for life ended up cheating on their spouses (or outright divorcing them but usually the cheating came first) and pregnant/impregnating someone else (by choice!) within 5-7 years of marriage.
And I’m not one of those people who think everyone should have kids. Oh no. I don’t think there’s a thing wrong with being childfree. I just think it’s weird so many people I know who INSISTED they did not want kids stuck to it…
until the day they met the “I WANTZ TO MAKE BEBBEEZ WIT YEW” person that sparked their ovaries/spematazoas.
So whenever I see a 1/2 childfree couple, or a fully childfree couple with a piss poor sex life, I make a mental note and count down the days….:-/ This is really a bonafide deal breaker. People should not be allowed to marry with that kind of issue in discord.
And as for what I’d do I’d have had my damn tubes tied before I got married, to absolve him of any idea my mind was changing. WTF is with people who insist they are childfree, but don’t make it official? Shit happens. Condoms break. Birth control fails.
Well, I think in addition to stating your opinion on kids, you should probably discuss with your future spouse what’s going to happen if you DO get pregnant. As someone who doesn’t want kids, I can’t imagine not having that conversation before marriage.
I realize what an emotional and complex situation it is, but I’m not sure I’d want to continue being married to someone who was either going to force me into something I didn’t want or refuse to forgive me.
Agree with everyone else. For the love of god, tell him.
I always imagined that if I accidentally got pregnant, I would tell the dude. But I think I would also let him know that he could be as involved as he wants, as in, if he doesn’t want to bother, I won’t force him.
Also, how much would it suck that if five years down the road, this guy met his future wife. She asked if ever had kids. He said no. Then a few more years pass and a kid shows up at his door saying he’s a father.
Recipe for a bad movie in my opinion.
Great answer by Wendy! I feel like the real reason you don’t want to tell him is 1. you don’t want him to ask you to have an abortion, and 2. you want complete control so you can move back to the midwest without any problems, because if he does end up wanting a big part of this kids life it will really mess up your plans, but it is just the right thing to do!
I agree. My money is on No. 2.
Yeah I agree on your assessment. Once he knows he will have an opinion on everything and I think she is enjoying operating with only one persons opinion to factor into all decisions. Which I get. I hate compromise. It’s for the bees.
What kind of bees give milk? Boobies! So I’m for the bees too.
POINTS FOR THE BOOB JOKE!
Its WILDLY easier to only have 1 decision maker and no one to run things by. People always say how hard it must be being a single parent, and sure some parts are, but this is definitely where we get off easy I think. I never have to compromise on how to raise my kid.
Yeah I think that’s just true of being single in general. I mean I have to make most decisions with someone else in mind and I’ll just say it – it’s fucking stupid. I want to do what I want when I want to do it. Ethan and I are constantly in a power struggle and we always joke about how awesome it would be if we had one of those relationships where one of us was wearing the pants. I mean we’ve all seen them right? I have some friends in relationships where one person is the leader and the other one seems perfectly content taking a back seat and being a follower. And they don’t seem like they’re secretly boiling over with pent up anger – they genuinely seem fine with going with the flow.
I remember a while back you were having issues with Peter wanting to take on more parenting responsibility and we all told you you had to let him – how’s that been going?
Peter for the most part is fine with me “wearing the pants.” Or maybe he just lets me think I’m wearing the pants. haha
I took everyone’s advice and he’s taken a more active role in discipline which I’ve supported and made known to both of them that I support, but we both have said we will discuss bigger things with each other first, but if there is something we cannot agree on 100%, that I would make the final decision. So far, its worked out really well.
That’s a good ending! I wish I could wear the pants, and I’m sure Ethan feels the same. And so the power struggle continues….
How was J Crew on Friday? Did it help?
It helped! No surprise there. I had a nice night all together, and the weekend was a lot of fun with friends I barely get to see anymore. 🙂
I think it is wildly easier…. for you! The harder option for sure would be to cooperate and compromise with the other parent. … I think it’s wrong to unilaterally make the decision that what is easier for you (you being the mom in a situation like this) and deny the father and child the chance to have each other. Of course, you can’t predict the future: the two parents could end up fighting tooth and nail over every detail and create a really shitty life for the child. But, again, I don’t think it’s right for the mom to decide she’s going to avoid giving it a chance because she doesn’t want to compromise on how to raise her child.
Agreed.
Well I didn’t make the decision to do it alone, it was made for me by him.
I absolutely agree that one cannot make that choice for another parent or the child. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
No, I know you didn’t. I know you didn’t even have the option to compromise and cooperate with the sperm provider…. I just mean you (not YOU you, but women in this situation) need to let the father know so he has the opportunity to step up.
There really is no choice here. You must tell. And then you must negotiate what is best for your child between the two of you. Child support isn’t for you – it is for the child – and you can’t deny your child that right because of inconvenience or you don’t want to share custody or have visitation. The more people that love a child the better. And if this is stand up guy, like you say, then he will be interested in being involved in his child’s life – and that is only to your child’s benefit.
This is a case of really bad timing for both of you but he deserves to be informed and part of the decision process. He’s a father-to-be and if you take it to term he’ll have to assume the responsibility therein. At least give him the chance to experience the events of the pregnancy.
Of course you have to tell him but you know what I’m thinking? If you got pregnant while using the pill and condoms,(WOW!) maybe you guys were meant to be together.
I know one other woman who got pregnant on both. She had 2 autistic children and did not want to risk having a third. But when she accidentally got pregnant (while on the pill and condoms) I said this is a gift from God. Don’t worry, the baby will be normal. And he is. And it healed her.
You are so worried about his goals and plans, but what about yours? I just had a child a few months ago, the father has elected to have no involvement, and I am working on terminating his rights – but what about your plans and goals? Trust me, you may think you have this whole situation figured out, but when that baby comes out, or in your last few weeks of pregnancy, it will all change. You could have complications (I hope you don’t), you could lose your job, you might not be able to have insurance and have to apply for assistance, you need maternity leave covered, or money to pay bills while you don’t work -there are so many factors at play that telling him should be the easiest. He may decide to change his game plan, he may not. You might at the least get some assistance from him, he may disappear into the scummy world of men who jump jobs to avoid paying child support.
When it’s two in the morning and your kiddo won’t sleep, it is nice to have someone to call. He may be that someone. He may be sitting next to you bartering for turns to check on the child.
Raising a child is hell alone. Don’t make yourself do it unless you are fully aware of what occurs. You may fall so in love with the nugget you won’t want to work anymore – and if he is involved, you may have that opportunity.
LW, the fact that you would not tell the father about the baby makes me wonder if you’re actually ready for a baby in the first place. To me this shows a distinct lack of maturity on your part. Of course he deserves to know.
I think knowing that you’re going to keep it, the most ethical answer is to tell him. I can completely understand some reasons to not tell the father, but I don’t think the reasons you gave can justify not telling him since you seem to think he’s a stand-up guy.
To be honest though, I don’t think I would personally be able to tell a man I barely knew that we were having a baby. I know it’s not the right thing to do, but I’ve just seen too much. I wouldn’t be able to trust someone I barely knew with my child, even (maybe especially) if it was his too. I would value the extra control to protect and raise my child properly more than I would value letting them have a father figure. I know that’s wrong, but when it comes to my hypothetical children, I don’t really care about right or wrong to anyone else but them.
You realize the potential father may feel the same way about you.
After hearing this, if I was the father I most certainly would.
Thanks, that’s really nice of you.
Because YOU want complete control, you want to deprive kids of their father and/or child support…I think that’s crappy. I find it kind of appalling.
It’s not that I want control – it’s that I would want the kid to be safe. Every single day at my job I see situations where parents have joint custody, and dad’s roommate rapes the kid every time they have weekend visitation, or dad slips beer into the apple juice because he thinks it’s funny, or dad teaches an older brother how to gang-rape his little sister. That sort of thing is so much more common than most people realize, and I’m just not willing to risk it with someone I don’t know well enough. It’s not about me.
Again…unless you have reason to believe that the guy does that, I’ll believe you are completely in the wrong. I agree with Iwanna below when she said you see the worst of the worst and that skews your views.
See, I think that I see the reality that most people choose to ignore. My views on it are skewed, but so is the idea that you should absolutely tell the father.
I’m not saying there are no scenarios that you shouldn’t tell the father. I definitely believe there are times that you shouldn’t tell the father.
Moms can do all those things too…
Absolutely they can, which is why everywhere else in the thread I used the phrase “custodial” or “non-custodial” parent. But I’m talking about what I would do in this situation, in which case the other parent would be the dad. It’s not a gender thing at all.
I work for a lawyer, so I see horrible horrible things every day and how people use children like little pawns. It’s horrible. It took me awhile to tell the father of my child (a one night stand) that I was pregnant. He showed no interest and I am terminating his rights – but I see some truly horrendous things on a regular basis. I was scared too and sometimes it comes from the people you would not think would do such a thing.
What’s interesting about this point of view is that you are excepting the father based on how well you know him, when your work has probably told you that knowing someone is not any kind of bar to the bad things you’ve seen.
I’ll have to assume based on how you want your kid safe that you wouldn’t let your kid out of your sight, considering that if you did, whoever had them in theirs could let someone you don’t know into you life or have different standards of safety. And you’d probably never date seriously either.
Did your parents think differently? If so, do you think they weren’t thinking of you enough?
See I don’t get why the f*ck women are having kids with guys they don’t know. If you don’t know the man, abortion is safe and legal. If you don’t like abortion, get on SERIOUS birth control (the pill is not serious birth control for having sex with men you don’t know well enough to trust to parent your child. You need an IUD/implanon or a tubal).
I totally understand theattack’s sentiment. My father was an asshole for lack of better words. Sometime’s I wish my mother had never told him she was pregnant so I didn’t have to deal with having him in my life. My earliest memory is visiting my father in jail. She never filed for child support because she didn’t want me to be legally required to visit him- but she did leave to door open so if he wanted to visit me (or vice versa) it would happen. I mean who want’s their child’s earliest memory to be visiting their dad in jail? I’d want that kind of control too.
Okay but that’s on your mom – she made the choice to take you there.
It is on her that she allowed me to visit, I agree. But it doesn’t change the fact that knowing my father as a child added any value to my life. She did the “right” thing by letting him be as active in my life as he chose but I understand where theattack is coming from. If I had been in her shoes I would have had a VERY hard time letting my 4 year old go to a jail with a step-mom.
Exactly. That sort of situation adds no value to the child’s life, and it’s not like you would have been able to get much child support off of anyone sitting behind bars. Even among the general population, a huge portion of non-custodial parents don’t pay their child support, and there’s not a whole lot that can be done about it. But if you’re the custodial parent who’s not getting child support, you would still have to take the kid to visitation with that parent, because you would be in contempt of court otherwise. It is not a situation I would want to get tied up in.
He might, but I know that the (hypothetical) child isn’t in danger with me. If he’s that concerned about the safety of his child with me, he could petition the courts for a paternity test and then file a private Dependency and Neglect case against me. Not saying it’s fair, but it’s likely what I would do.
Yikes, I know you feel this way because of where you work – but you have to keep things in perspective. You see the worst of the worst. The general population doesn’t end up in D&N cases – it’s a pretty crappy thing to do.
You’re right, it’s not everyone that ends up in those situations. But it’s much more common than people would realize, and the risk is too high for me. I mean, this isn’t going to happen for me anyway. If I have a kid, it will be with my fiance who I trust. But I completely understand why someone would want to keep that information away from a father they didn’t know very well, and I would probably do it in that situation, at least until I got to know the father better.
Okay but if you don’t know them very well you are assuming they’re bad. That’s a pretty cynical assumption to make. And I’m sorry only losers end up in D&N cases. And if she doesn’t want financial help (which I think she’s silly for) what does she have to lose? I hate that we are assuming now that no dad is better than a dad that you know nothing about. That’s a HUGE assumption to be making.
Well, I’m not saying I would never tell him. In a ONS situation, I would want to learn more about the guy and get to know him. I’d probably try to find out about how responsible he was, and if he seemed good, I would most likely tell him. I just wouldn’t automatically jump to the conclusion that having a father is better than not. That’s also a huge assumption. You’re right – I’m definitely being cynical, but to me, that’s the safe side.
I also would never expect child support. So many people don’t pay it when they’re supposed to, and unless you can afford an attorney, you can’t do a lot about it. It’s helpful, but I don’t think anyone should ever calculate it in their budget until they have it in their hands.
Attorney or not, there isn’t much that can be done.
Also, GREAT advice about not banking on that money.
I don’t think it’s a fair characterization that an attorney is needed to go after unpaid child support. The courthouse where I clerked during law school had an entire department devoted only to going after people who weren’t paying, and all the other parent (usually mom) had to do was come in a file some forms with them. They wouldn’t get the money right away, but they often did get it eventually. The state has the power to garnish wages, garnish federal benefits (like SSI), and a number of other methods to get the money owed. Plus interest. I saw quite a few distraught “fathers” end up paying more than they ever imagined. Know your rights people. Sometimes that’s all it takes, and it matters.
Its very easy to get an order pertaining to child support. Its even easier to get the money (with zero help from counsel), if the parent paying has a job on the books. Unfortunately, its just as easy to never see a dime from the person who owes if they work off the books forever.
Yes, you cannot garnish wages or benefits where there is nothing to garnish. You can’t take money that isn’t there, with or without an attorney helping you. I don’t like the characterization that an attorney is some magical savior that’s going to get you money where there is no money, and if you’re poor and can’t afford one then you’re out of luck. I think people should be encouraged to know their rights and go to the courthouse and find out what resources (often free, like the Family Law Facilitator’s Office or the Department of Child Support Services in California) are available to them.
On the other side of that, my clients are turned away all the time from the Child Support Office because they are too busy, and they can’t take on anyone else. The proportion of people that has worked for in my experience is like 1 out of 6 tops. Also, SSI can’t be counted toward child support in my state (because for whatever messed up reason it’s not considered an income), so guess how many non-custodial parents are suddenly disabled and can’t work when it comes time to calculate child support? And yes, the state can garnish wages as long as there are wages to garnish. Twice in the past month I’ve seen parents quit their jobs just so they could stop paying child support. Some people also work under the table and get paid in cash for what they do so that it doesn’t leave a record. These people are hopefully not the norm, but wanna know how many clients I’ve had in a year and a half who have actually received child support? It has to be less than ten.
Wouldn’t it be funny if someone was like “nah fuck it – you don’t need to tell him”. I mean that’s outrageous. Of course you need to tell someone you’re having their child. You are creating a human that is half theirs. How is this even a question.
Agree with everyone else here. The child has a right to know its father. The father ALSO has a right to know his child, which you should never unilaterally take away unless he is violent or abusive (which is not true in this case). If we as a society are going to demand child support payments from fathers who are given no other option once the baby is conceived, we have to demand that fathers are treated like real parents with real rights and not just financial obligations when it’s convenient for the mother.
Another thought: What if (god forbid) something happens to you? The kid will be essentially orphaned, whereas if you had just told the father who by your account is a good guy, the kid would still at least have one parent. Or as others have pointed out, if you lose your job someday, if your career doesn’t work out, if you have health issues, if the kid has health issues — in all of these cases, the child could suffer immensely more than s/he would have had s/he been supported and raised by two parents.
Does the idea of getting pregnant while on the pill AND using condoms make anyone else hyperventilate?
Yes. But I really…I just can’t see how that’s even possible? Unless they fucked up the usage of both the condoms, AND the pill?
It’s just crazy to me, because if a woman ~wants~ to get pregnant, she needs to wait—what?—3 months until after stopping the pill to even HOPE conception is possible…& yet there are people like this LW who manage to get pregnant while taking it *and* using condoms.
You can get pregnant immediately when you stop taking the pill.
Yep. Friend wanted a kid. Friend went off the pill. Got pregnant 2 weeks later.
Okay, you’re right— the 3 month thing is apparently after a pregnancy or miscarriage http://www.webmd.com/baby/features/getting-pregnant-after-birth-control
But still, I’ve always heard the pill listed as a reason for infertility (like, if someone is initially having trouble conceiving) so it’s just odd to me that someone could get pregnant WHILE ON IT unless they’ve been taking it incorrectly.
I think its just recommended that you don’t try to get pregnant then, not that you actually cannot get pregnant.
I think for some people it does throw things out of whack. Some people go off it and their hormones and periods get really irregular for a while.
Yeah I never believe those stories either (sorry people it’s happened to). I mean if both have 97% effective rate you have a 1 in a 10000 shot of them both failing, statistically speaking. Okay so then say you are that 1 out of 10,000 person – you also have to be ovulating at that exact time they both fail and you only ovulate 3 times per month – and then even if you are ovulating it has to stick and the sperm and egg have to fall in love and attach. It’s just too far out there for me to believe it happens with the regularity we hear about it on DW. Y’all are a bunch of liars. Okay, maybe 1 out of the 10,000 LW’s we get aren’t lying – but the rest of you are lying.
** You only ovulate 3 days per month.
I can’t imagine both failing either.
But you can have sex up to a couple of days before your two or three day window and still get pregnant. Some of those guys take a while to swim. Or are really strong.
In fact, one of my very close friends has a super irregular period and was having trouble getting pregnant. She now is and just announced it over the weekend. Yay for her! But anyway, she’s a pharmacist and her husband is a doctor and we were having this conversation on Saturday. About the “window of opportunity” that is.
Also, some people just get pregnant super easy. Like most women in my family.
But I digress, I still find it hard to fathom that would get pregant using two forms of birth control.
Isn’t the effective rate only if used correctly? Like actually putting the condom on for the duration of penatration (start to finish) not just for ejaculation and taking the pill at the same time every day? I remember in high school people would just use a condom for the end, even though there are swimmers in the pre-goo and I can’t tell you how many people regularly forgot to take their pill for one, two, three days.
Well if people are using it correctly then I don’t think they’re allowed to say, “We used comdons AND birth control and STILL got pregnant”. Then they can say yeah we didn’t use either and got pregnant. I think it’s lying to say you used both and ZOMG shocking got pregnant in that scenario. No you used neither and got pregnant.
I think you’d be surprized how shitty sex ed is in a lot of places and how many people don’t know how to properly use birth control. I mean my fiance didn’t even understand periods when I met him (he had sex ed in the rural south).
Yeah I think that’s all bullshit too. I mean a bullshit excuse. Everyone knows how babies are made after the age of 14. I grew up in a religious state too and we didn’t have sex ed either and I still knew. And that was even before “googling” was a thing. People know.
My grandmother never knew. My mom asked her once. She knew it happened after you got married, that’s all. She had no idea what her period was for either.
Well your grandmother isn’t writing in about her pregnancy. I am specifically talking about LW’s that write in – and we don’t get high school so you can’t count them either.
Wait, your grandmother didn’t know how she ended up pregnant with your mom? I must be reading this wrong.
Nope. She didn’t know that sex leads to pregnancy, or how human fertility worked. I guess it wasn’t talked about in her family, and certainly not in school in the time that she grew up in. She must have been somewhat sheltered, because I’m sure that there were other women at the time who did know. But if she didn’t ever talk about it with her friends or anything, and her parents didn’t tell her, where would she have ever found out?
My mother didn’t know she was pregnant with me either. She was a newlywed and on BC and using condoms. She had irregular periods and would skip months regularly. She went in for some routine checkup and they called her after the bloodwork and was like Hey, you’re pregnant. I think she was about 24 weeks on or so. My family is just extra, extra fertile. It gives me nightmares lol
My mom also was raised in a pretty liberal family and was up on how BC works and took it 24/7 and doubled up just in case. And here I am lol So, it definitely can happen education or not. It’s like a biology fluke.
manda, not that she didn’t know she was pregnant, that she didn’t know HOW babies are made.
Those rates of effectiveness are all theoretical. Pills and condoms if use by 2 hypothetical people have about a 97 and 95 effectiveness rate. However, real usage effectiveness rates are around 92% for double hormone pills, 88% for progesterone only pills and 89% for condom usage. That leaves a lot of room for people who think they are using pills and condoms and get pregnant, until we are Sim people (or get IUDs), women and men are going to think they are more protected than they actually are.
You can get pregnant immediately after stopping the pill. My best friend got pregnant with in a month of stopping. They were actively trying but it happened faster than anyone expected.
In my non-med-school-trained knowledge, it has a lot to do with your metabolism and how fast your body processes the drugs out of your system. Some people start to spot if they miss one day of the pill. Other people need months before their body regulates. That’s why it’s imperative you take the pill correctly and with in a 3 hour or so window every single day (some pills vary on this).
A friend of mine got pregnant when switching BC pills… she went on generic because she wanted to save money. But her and her fiance didn’t know and were never told that they should double-up for a few months while she adjusted to the new pills… prego within 2 weeks. Totally didn’t end up saving them any money 😉
Yeah. Maybe they didn’t use both at the same time? That would calm me down a little. I’ve never heard of anyone getting pregnant while on the pill AND using condoms.
Odds are NEITHER was used properly…
Or maybe they used BOTH the rhythm AND the pull out method… 😉
I know of 2 couples who have. They’d each gotten pregnant on the pill alone so started using condoms as well and still had another baby. These were all educated people who’d been married a good long time and had other (planned) children already. It’s not like they didn’t know how to use birth control properly.
I also have a friend who got pregnant with an IUD. And no, it had not slipped out of place or been left in too long/not long enough. It had been in several months when SURPRISE! And it stayed right there till labor started (it was deemed more risky to try to remove it than to just leave it in there with the baby).
Scary, yes. But it can happen.
If condoms failed as much with gay people as they apparently do with straight couples… ALL my friends — self included — would all be dead. It’s a miracle, I guess, that each and every good gay friend I’ve ever had since 1990 is somehow still alive and still with us…
I agree. If you use a condom *correctly* then you are not going to come into contact with any semen or precum, and if you use the pill *correctly* then you aren’t even going to ovulate. When condoms don’t work, it’s because of user error. The pill can fail for a number of reasons, but I think it’s usually just that people are careless about taking it at the same time every day.
Yes, that freaked me out too. I’m wondering how perfectly she uses the pill, because if it’s taken at the exact same time every day she shouldn’t have been ovulating to begin with. I knew a girl at one of my previous jobs who claimed to be “on the pill” but missed it more often than she took it. Whenever she remembered, she would take 3 or 4 all at once (however many she missed) and think that was enough. Yeah, she got pregnant.
My stomach hurts just thinking about that. On the (very) rare occasion I miss a pill and have to double up, it makes me super sick. I can’t imagine taking 3 or 4 at a time. The stomach sickness alone is reason enough to be perfect with my pills.
I’m starting a new question. And this is for the male readers/responders.
If you accidentally got a one night stand pregnant and she decided to terminate the pregnancy, would you want to know?
Nope. I wouldn’t.
If you get a ons stand pregnant, bgm, i desperately want to know.
I don’t understand shielding men, even good men, from the horrors of a pregnancy. No matter how good or responsible he is, he’s a grown adult that made a decision to have sex, same as you. Why should he not have to deal with the consequences while you deal with all of them? Also, if he really is a stand up guy, he will probably WANT to know about the pregnancy and be involved. The thought of women hiding a baby from its father is so ridiculous to me it really makes me question how we are raising our women. We’re like a bunch of wannabe Mother fucking Theresas.
Ugh. It’s simply amazing to me how many dumb people make it through college… Um, yeah. That’s truly ALL I have to say here…
What is dumb here mark? They used birth controll (two kinds!!) and got accidentally pregnant- it can happen. I agree it’s a weird question (to tell pops or not) but what is dumb about this situation?
First, the odds of TWO highly effective birth control messages here BOTH failing miraculously is about the same that Madonna is going to pop by my place in five minutes and whisk off to lunch and a career. Seriously — and ANY sex expert would agree with me — there are two options. One, is the LW is simply lying. Or, two, they used one or two of the forms of birth control incorrectly.
This means she either erratically took the pill or they put the condom on too late or something.
Sorry, I just don’t buy this story. Partially, because I was once told this same song and dance before by friends. Condoms! Pills? Miracle Baby! Yikes… Anyway, I was amazed. I simply couldn’t believe it. And so as a resuly I REALLY pressed it. I didn’t even disbelieve them — I was just simply astounded so much I simply couldn’t let it go. I was like, wow. What horrible luck and went on and on about their misfortune until finally — they were like, “Okay! We’re lying! We just fuck up!!’
Surprise. Surprise.
The other SECOND part of this story that is stupid is her hilariously, magical wishful thinking that she can REALLY afford to raise a child alone (presently she is on an internship?!) and thinks that alone makes it hunky dory just to assume that she should remain silent on this issue.
Honestly, there is so much stupid with this letter I laughed out loud reading it.
“the odds of TWO highly effective birth control messages here BOTH failing miraculously is about the same that Madonna is going to pop by my place in five minutes and whisk off to lunch and a career” <— Agreed; also, if that does happen (the Madonna part), let us know STAT.
"and ANY sex expert would agree with me — there are two options. One, is the LW is simply lying. Or, two, they used one or two of the forms of birth control incorrectly" <— I couldn't agree more.
"wishful thinking that she can REALLY afford to raise a child alone" <— meh, people make ends meet ALL THE TIME, and they especially find a way when they don't want the father to know so he can't have any say.
Didn’t theattack say that happened to her once?
I was on BC pills, but I was too depressed to even know what day it was at the time, so I definitely wasn’t taking them correctly. The condom did come off though, and Plan B didn’t work. The Plan B thing is probably what you’re thinking of.
Oh, yup, that’s exactly what I was thinking.
There is no doubt there was user error here. But we all have user error issues at some point in our life. Even perfect Mark I’m sure has had a condom break at least once in his life.
Agreed – I didn’t mean to criticize her for that – I guess now in hindsight there is aboslutely NO point in pointing that out. It doesn’t change my opinion about anything. It doesn’t make her stupid or unfit to be a mom, imho. We *all*, Mark too, make mistakes. I’m glad my wine method of birth control didn’t fail me in my last relationship, ha.
Yeah, I had a condom break once. Once — in twenty odd years of sex.
If I had been a girl — I’d have rushed out on gone on plan B. If it happened now I’d immediately be on that new anti-hiv drug cocktail you can go on. This wasn’t available at the time for me however so I had a very stressful sixth months of just… waiting.
And Plan B isn’t 110% sucessful. Accidents happen!!
Just one time? Damn. I can remember at least 6 broken condoms in the last 15 years. When two from the same brand broke within a week (just by putting them on!), we switched to a different brand. The others were, well, size issues.
Everyone knows the most successful form of birth control is the pull and pray.
It worked for my sister. Oh wait, it didn’t. My niece is now 8. And she is awesome.
It would be extremely selfish not to tell him. He can continue to pursue whatever the hell he likes, but he needs to be made aware that there is a child somewhere out there that is his.
How would you feel if you impregnated someone (I know, you’re a female, can’t do it – but go with my example here) and you were never told because the pregnant person thought it was better for you not to know so you would be able to pursue your career dreams. You’d be hurt. Betrayed.
It is a betrayal. One of the implied, and unvoiced, covenants of sexual relationships is to tell the other partner of any changes that were brought about by sex. STD diagnoses, pain/discomfort, pregnancy, everything.
The child is half of him, therefore he has the right to know, and the right to choose whether or not he wants to alter his career plans.
Why is abortion or adoption off the table? It should not be. Pregnancy came at a really bad time for both of you, and do not kid yourself, it WOULD interrupt your career plans AND his. The simplest thing is would be to terminate this pregnancy or give the child up for adoption, or postpone pregnancy until you are in a stable relationship and financially stable job situation. If you choose to keep this baby, then do tell him. It will mess up your plans, certainly because you might not be able to move away like you want, and it will mess up his plans, too, but it would be wrong to keep it from him. And Jake will need be in your life for the next 20+ years or so whether you like it or not.
I will admit that I had an accidental pregnancy at the end of my grad school with a FWB partner. I did not keep the pregnancy and had no more to do with this man, who as it turned out to be kind of unstable. I never EVER regretted this decision. Later I had a planned child with my husband and I keep thinking how much I dodged a bullet by exercising my reproductive choices and waiting until I was ready. I was able to move wherever I wanted, able to cut ties with this man, and really pursue and develop my career which would have been nearly impossible as a single mother tied to this particular guy. I am better off emotionally and financially and I have the resources to raise my child with a lot of advantages, which I would not have been able to give to the other as a single mom. I say thank GOD for reproductive choice. I know this is going to get a lot of reaction, but it is the truth, and it is the truth for MANY women out there.
But she wants this baby where you didn’t
Great, but she is living in fairyland if she thinks that she can just move back to the mid-west, not tell this guy, and that her career arc will go on as she planned, right on schedule (unless she is Marissa Meyer or has a HUGE trust fund…) that she will be able to work as much and as hard and that the baby will have a tiny impact on her life and that she can just pretend that this guy was just a sperm donor. Someday this kid will want to know about its father and even track him down, then what?
So if she keeps this baby, the best scenario that I can envision is that they decide to try and make the relationship work and have the baby together, but yes, their future plans, BOTH of theirs, will be altered. No way around it.
Ha, I know I’m viewed as the “exception” on here, but I am neither Marissa Meyer nor a trust fund baby, and my career is better than I ever imagined it’d be. You don’t have to give up every goal you’ve had just because you have a baby alone. Its really not a death sentence.
(I do completely agree wth the rest of your points though)
Why is having both people invovled the best case senario? My mother was a single mom with no help (monetary or custodial) from my father and we both ended up just find. We never were on government assistance even though we would have qualified. Obviously having a a child as a single parent is going to alter things a bit, but it’s not the end of the world.
It really isn’t. Many, many people are fully capable of raising a child well on their own. Its really not the hardest thing ever.
I see single mothers in my work every day. I see them on a sliding scale because otherwise neither they nor their kids would get care. They are dependent upon the kindness of strangers. That is a tough way to live. Sometimes it works out… but it is not a great plan to base your life upon. Aim higher!
And there are just as many poor couples with children who depend on that as well.
Agreed. Sometimes people will try and it’s hard. Or something unplanned comes up.
People can preach all they want about how things should be. Or how you need this, this and that before you pass go. But life is messy. Things happen. It’s how you respond to those things that I think makes all the difference. You do what you can. You learn. You grow. And you move forward.
Somehow I don’t see any of them. Or they just don’t come in. Lots and lots of single mothers with young kids, though…
Well I can assure you poor couples with children exist.
WTF. It’s awesome you do work for low income families. Awesome. Kudos to you. But there are JUST AS MANY low income two parent families as there are one parent families and just as many one parent families who aren’t low income. And, further more, there are pleanty of wealthy families who spit out kids, throw some money at them, and then give two shits what happens about them/their mental health/their education/etc. There are plenty of two parent household that are INFINITELY more disfunctional then a single mom who needs a little assistance. FFS.
No one is saying all women should strive to be single mothers who rely on welfare and “the kidness of strangers” (what ever the fuck that means) just that if a women, an educated, seemingly level headed for the most part women, decides to have a baby that is a result of an accidental pregnany- she has every damn right to. There is no need to ostracize a woman for exercising her right to choose.
The kindness of strangers is people willing to reduce their regular fees to help those in need so that they can have what they need. That is what it means. And statistics do not lie. They are what they are. And as there are exceptions to every rule, you cannot argue with these statistics:
http://www.singleparentsuccess.org/stats.html
And look, my BEST GIRLFRIENDS all happen to be single parents. I love them. I do not look down on them because had I made different choices or had worse luck, it could just as easily have been me. And my son is still relatively young, and you never know what can happen because life is a real bitch sometimes and my husband almost died last fall… but given the choice it is one I would not make for myself. And I think everyone should really understand exactly what they are getting into before they make this choice.
I know I’ve been shocked at general stupidity before, so I could be wrong here, but unless you are a teenager, you probably can figure out exactly what they are getting into when choosing to have a baby alone.
You would be shocked. Seriously shocked.
Do you really think there aren’t just as many poor couples out there though?
Well statistics show that a single parent household is more LIKELY to be living below the poverty line than a dual parent household. I think there are plenty of 2 parent poor households, but
A. Poverty brings stress and they are probably more likely to divorce and become single parent households
B. 2 parents usually means 2 incomes or at the very least, someone to stay home with young children while the other works so that there is often less neglect. Until the United States gives out free childcare and maternity to young families, there will often be an economic strain.
C. Many single mothers who work in the US, unless they are high earning professionals, rely on state subsidized early childcare. So we all end up paying for it anyway… interestingly, if this were Europe, I might have a completely different answer because they get such good benefits and long paid maternity leave and early childcare that perhaps being a single mother is not as much of a risk as it seems to be here.
And all of those stats are from the mid 1990’s…sorry that doesn’t substantiate your arguement to me. Sorry but your view is jadded because of your line of work. Let this LW make her OWN choice, just like you got to make yours.
Agreed.
Vital Statistics
US poverty (less than $17,916 for a family of three): 46.2 million people, 15.1 percent.
Poverty gender gap, 2011: Women 34 percent more likely to be poor than men.
Poverty gender gap, 2010: Women 29 percent more likely to be poor than men.
Poverty rate among families with children headed by single mothers: 40.9 percent.
Deep poverty (less than $11,510 for a family of four): 20.4 million people, 1 in 15 Americans, including more than 15 million women and children.
Families receiving cash assistance, 1996: 68 for every 100 families living in poverty.
Families receiving cash assistance, 2010: 27 for every 100 families living in poverty.
Food Stamps recipients with no cash income: 6.5 million people.
Jobs in the US paying less than $34,000 a year: 50 percent.
Jobs in the US paying below the poverty line for a family of four, less than $23,000 annually: 25 percent.
Poverty-level wages, 2011: 28 percent of workers.
POVERTY RATE AMONG FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN HEADED BY SINGLE MOTHERS: 40.9 percent.
As you may or may not recall, the mid-90’s were an economic boom time here. So things are even worse now. Check out my post below. 40.9% of families headed by single mothers live in poverty. 40.9%!!!! If I handed you a glass of water and said that if you drank it you would have a 40.9% chance of getting salmonella, would you drink it?
Just because a child is unplanned, it doesn’t mean that the world is going to end. Careers can still go on as planned. Education can still be had (whether it’s as planned or not).
None of my kids have held me back from achieving what I’ve achieved in the last 13 years. Hell, if it weren’t for them, I’d probably be doing something completely illegal and skeezy (and no, I will not say what). A teenage pregnancy saved me from all of that.
Haha, I 100% agree that if not for having a child, I’d likely be dead or in rehab or something crappy. She was the reason I grew up.
“Why is abortion or adoption off the table? It should not be.”
I’m sorry, but if a woman writes in and says its not an option for her, who are you (or any of us) to question that? For all the “its a woman’s choice what to do with her body,” I’m surprised to see a comment like this. Just because you didn’t want a baby and decided to abort, doesn’t mean this woman should.
Perhaps because the LW displays so much immaturity in her letter it begs one to question whether or not she would truly be a good parent. Sorry, but this LW is about as prepared to raise a kid on her own as I am to fly to the moon… tomorrow.
It seems she is well aware of her 3 basic options and has chosen one. She didn’t write in asking for advice about whether or not to have the baby, but just whether or not she should tell the guy. Its a horribly immature question to ask, I don’t disagree, but its incredibly rude to tell her to have an abortion or give it up for adoption when she’s already made a decision. If we want women to be able to make their own decisions on this, then we have to let them, even if its possibly a mistake.
Really? Even though this very website and news source is FILLED daily with stories of people who made such a mistake? Honestly, I disagree. If people AREN’T truly ready to raise their children then it IS our responsibility as a society to at least question their decision to foolishly attempt to do so.
Why?
Because all too often we end up cleaning up their messes. Or worse, we don’t and their messed up kids make more messed up kids and it goes on and on eternally… Frankly, I am rather tired of vapid, idiots getting pregnant and then gleefully becoming the worst mother’s that they can possible be…
Does this happen in every situation? No, obviously, not. But sadly, that’s the exception rather than the rule… Far too many people (male and female) have kids with less thought than I put into buying a new plant. Again, it simply astounds me…
Ok, but on the flip side, imagine if someone came on here and told an LW to keep the baby when she clearly stated she wanted an abortion?
The “we” end up cleaning up there mess is kinda mostly nonsense. I’ve always hated that argument. You’re really not doing shit to clean up anyone’s mess, other than losing pennies that go toward taxes.
I get the frustration about seeing bad parents out there. But there’s also plenty of good ones, single, divorced, rich, poor, etc. I don’t think the good are the exceptions. But I’m also way more positive than you, especially having been there myself 🙂
I would then say that the other person was wrong. I’d never push a baby on somebody who didn’t truly want it. So many people fought hard for the right to abortion. It saddens me how easily some women throw it all away.
Birth Control, too.
And if the world doesn’t wake up — all that could vanish in an instant. Just look at what is presently happening in North Dakota. Yikes…
So its wrong to say dont have an abortion, but its ok to say have an abortion? Come on. Its either a woman’s right to choose whatever, or it isn’t.
It’s wrong to say KEEP the baby. There’s always adoption. That said I am VERY much PRO ABORTION. The world has fucking TWICE as many people on it since I was born a mere 40 odd years ago.
We live in a MODERN world where most are either too dumb or just too plain stupid to properly use birth control. Frankly, it’s only a matter of time before the government(s) step in and get all brave new world on us and finally sieze control over who gets to have children.
Hah. You laugh at it now. But come back in 200 years where the planet is dying and the population has continued to explode because BREEDERS are too fucking dumb for even the most basics of family planning. Just you wait…
Frankly, women have proven time and time again that they don’t much value the right to choose or even take it remotely seriously. So when and if a Brave New World comes to pass — so be it…
I know you wish everyone would have to check with you prior to getting pregnant, but unfortunately, women have a choice.
You simply cannot be pro-choice if you don’t believe that its a woman’s choice.
Well, when you are able to get pregnant, you can go out and have all the abortions you want. But until then, you don’t get an opinion about whether a woman should or shouldn’t have an abortion, I’m sorry you just don’t. You’d have all poor mothers abort – time and time again you pusht he abortion agenda when you subjectively decide a woman is not ready, whether because she’s single or poor. … And that is NUTS to say the least.
How is she thowing away her right to an abortion?? She evaluted her opions and is choosing to keep and raise her child. WTF.
You don’t know everything.
I was talking about women in general… PS — Abortion was all but outlawed in North Dakota just last week. Does anybody here even know that? Probably not — it only barely made the news… Meanwhile, every young women in America knows all about Kim’s epic battle with her pregnancy piggy-piggy pork-out weight gain. We live in the most shallow and fucked up of times…
I actually did know that, because I read/watch the news regularly. It’s lovely that you assume everyone is stupid.
I knew that too. And I even brought it up to several friends over the weekend because I was disgusted.
I did not know that, but I did notice that Kim is pulling a Jessica.
And for someone that hates kim k so much you sure seem to know everything about her.
I can’t seem to avoid Kim — as if she isn’t the headline on a news site — she pops up on my facebook wall as I apparently have a lot of “friends” with dubious ideas of what they need to be outraged about… Today it was that the media is attacking Poor Kim for getting fat…
She is packing it on, but this is coming from someone who managed to put on 72 lbs during her pregnancy.
Come on you have to admit that that meme circling around of “Who wore it best” and it was her and a whale was funny. I know you laughed. Good news in celebrity world – lindsay lohan just got sentenced to a mandatory 90 days in rehab.
Too busy working to go on TMZ today. By working I mean DWing.
If I were Lindsay Lohan, I’d just serve my time and call it a day. Probation doesn’t seem to work out well for her.
TMZ’s for the birds. People.com is where it’s at.
No, good news would be Lindsey Lohan and entire Kartrashian clan killed in freak celebrity DUI mishap…
Says the “nice” guy.
Lindsay Lohan is my favorite train wreck because she’s so consistent. Like of course she’s going to steal shit and lie to cops. Why wouldn’t she? Of course she’s going to skip probation meetings and party all night.
Eh, I’m nice in REAL life. But towards vapid, stupid celebrities that are all but destroying our culture? Eh, not so much. Lohan and the entire Kardashian clan alone have dumbed down all of America by at least 10 IQ points…
I know it because I used to live there and now I hate them.
You have no idea how prepared she is. Seriously. You have no idea what her support system is as far as family willing to help, or what feild she is in an potential jobs, or anything else about her other than the little she put in this letter. Which isn’t much. Sure it’s a little immature to ask if she should tell the father, but pregnancy brain makes you do/think all kinds of weird things. Nothing else in this letter displays immaturity to me.
Because she is exercising HER reproductive choice and saying abortion is off the table. That’s not really up for you to debate or berate her for.
Um, can we pretend your user name stands for What Addie Pray Said?
aweseom!
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I love 30 Rock, I love that line, and I love YOU!
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Am I the only one that doesn’t think this girl keeping the baby is a guaranteed train wreck? Yes becoming a single mother as a 22 year old college graduate is hardly ideal, but I also think its worlds away from becoming a single mother as 16 year old high school sophomore.
I mean, she has her education already, which is one of the biggest battles out of the way. She has a minimal, but still some work experience on her chosen field. The father sounds like a decent guy who will likely be part of his child’s life (because of course LW we’ve all impressed on you that you MUST tell him, right?). It sounds like she has a loving family who will be supportive. It’s going to be tough, undoubtably, but I also think a knee jerk “Your life is over before it started!” is a bit ridiculous.
Nah, I agree with you. There’s an ideal time for children, but things don’t NEED to be ideal to be doable and worthwhile. She wants to keep the child. That’s her choice, and it’s a perfectly respectable one. For what it’s worth, I have 2 single mom friends from high school, and their kids seem to make them really happy. Sometimes children can be a great thing, no matter how much work they are.
I totally agree with you. It’s her choice. She’s a 22 year old college graduate making an educated choice. I’d say she has a pretty good chance at living a highly sucessful life with her child.
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sooooo im way late to this, but YES you need to tell him. just because you have the right to do what you see fit with your body doesnt mean that he doesnt get the right to know what his genetic material has formed. the two thoughts can coexist.. on another abortion vs fathers rights debate someone said that each person (man and woman) in the situation has multiple points in which to avoid/deal with a pregnancy… ie. the woman can go on birth control. the man can wear a condom. they can agree to pull out. they can talk beforehand about their views, ect… but biology just makes it that the woman holds the last point. that is just the way it is, and that is ok.
LW, tell him and form a plan for this baby. i know you say your already want to keep it, but i would have a real coming to jesus talk with him about all your options. also maybe talk to planned parenthood or something about what can/will happen if you do raise the kid, alone or together, because i do agree you seem to have a pretty… idealistic..? way of looking at it. i mean, sure, maybe itll work out perfectly, but it never hurts to be totally informed.
Tell him. Honestly, though…this sounds like such a ticking time bomb. LW is a mid-western girl who really wants to go home and be near her folks. Jake is still in college and wants to go to grad school in Europe…what are the chances he’s going to find the mid-west appealing? Both are probably going to dig in their heels and have a massive blowout. He shouldn’t have to move to the mid-west just to please her or face being far away from his kid; she shouldn’t have to take off to Europe or stay in a city she despises for him. They are both so young too…I’m only in my mid 20s, and I’ve matured dramatically in the past 3 or so years.
Honestly, LW needs to wake up and smell the coffee. There are the above issues I mentioned, plus the fact that she thinks she can support her kid and easily get another job at a university. Is she even aware of how hard it is to land a decent job at a university? The wording of this letter (the “internship” being at a university 2500 miles away plus the fact that she already has a B.A.) makes me think she has some sort of research assistant position that is most likely in the sciences. Those jobs can be VERY competitive, and if the LW only has a BA you can bet someone with a master’s is going to get priority over her. She has to be prepared that may very likely end up with a less than stellar job.
I can’t help but feel that abortion or adoption would probably be the best situation in this case. It doesn’t sound like these two are madly in love. It’s not like they both have support systems in the same town or even the same state. The fact that she’s seriously considering not telling the father reeks of immaturity.