“Should I Tell My Friend Why I Don’t Want Her in My Wedding?”
Well, a few months before the wedding, she told me that she’d thought a lot about it and she decided that she didn’t want my boyfriend to come to the wedding. Her reasoning was because “he didn’t agree with their marriage” (due to having a child out-of-wedlock). This was ridiculous and I told her he never said such a thing, so she made up another excuse, which was that he was “mean to her brother in high school.” Really, high school?! That was years ago! I was polite and told her it was her wedding so she could do what she wanted, but I thought it was wrong. She promised that no one else would know why he suddenly wasn’t coming.
I told my boyfriend and he was super upset that she put me in such a tough position. I only agreed to continue to stand in her wedding because the dress was paid for. After that, I found out that she had a shower I wasn’t invited to. When I asked my friend about it, she said, “It was more for older people from my dad’s prayer group.” I then found out that another bridesmaid and her parents threw the party for her. OK, that’s weird I’ve been friends with both of them for years and I’m IN the bridal party, so why wasn’t I invited? I soon found out that it was a “couples shower,” and I figured out she just didn’t want my boyfriend there. To make matters worse, she not only didn’t want him there, she lied to me and had the other bridesmaids lie to my face as well. I wanted to decline standing in the wedding at that point, but it was so close that it would look bad on me and cause drama.
Now, I have barely spoken to her since her wedding. I’m engaged and have been gathering my own wedding party and I don’t see how she could think she would be in my wedding at this point. Should I say something to her or leave it alone? — Burned Bridesmaid
The time to “say something” would have been before your friend’s wedding. If, at this point, you’re still hurt and upset with how things were handled, it’s not too late to get things off your chest, but I wouldn’t use your own wedding planning as the impetus or the excuse to contact your old friend. It’s one thing to tell her you’ve been hurt all this time and really need to let her know why in order to heal and move on; it’s quite another to call her up and be all, “I’m getting married! And I don’t want you in my wedding party! And here’s why!” The former is a relatively healthy way to MOA. The latter is just childish and tacky. Don’t stoop to her level.
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Wendy’s on the money as usual (but why use the c-word?). As for me, I wouldn’t actively contact this woman to give her an explanation for her exclusion from the bridal party. I’d wait for her to contact you – and she might not! I wouldn’t be surprised if she already knows that her behavior towards your bf was unacceptable/offensive…
Sometimes the C-word is the only word that describes what a total PITA (aka pain in the ass) someone is being. Actually, there was an article in the nytimes not long ago about reclaiming the c-word. I digress! Maybe I’m desensitized because I have a tiny crush on Al Swearengen?
Thanks for this – I guess I’m still a little prudish when it comes to the c-word. For some reason, I thought it was as taboo as many racial slurs – though I do have some friends in the UK who use the word in a positive sense, so reclamation efforts are indeed underway…
I’m not saying it’s a word I use all the time, but there is an effort. I wish I could find the article but I can’t remember what it was called. It was in the Sunday edition maybe 2 or 3 months ago. Anyway, it’s not like I use the word – but if we can call men pricks, douchebags (which might i add is really freakin’ nasty), or call women sluts (Which is disparaging their sexuality), what’s the difference? Personally I don’t use the S-word, I find it a LOT more offensive than the c-word, since it’s basically reducing a woman’s worth because of her perceived sexuality. At least the c-word is a part of our anatomy, it’s not some word intended to make sexuality a negative. It’s just a part of our body. Regardless, it’s a descriptor, and it refers to a part of my anatomy – why should I somehow find it vulgar or offensive? It’s a part of me, I should own it! It’s the same as calling someone an asshole, dick, prick, etc. It’s just been coopted in a way that other words haven’t been. Anyway, I digress. I sense this is an unpopular stance so thumbs down away.
Here’s a link to the article I think you’re referring to:
I collect language and society articles in the news for a class I teach.
INHO, it takes a lot of work to “reclaim” a word and, usually, a reclaimed word can only be used by the in-group. See the N-word for an example. I think the C-word is not successfully used just by the in-group, but also by out-group people as a put-down. Until out-group use declines reclamation efforts probably won’t get too far. Only if we’re looking at the N-word as an example of how a word is reclaimed by a group.
I don’t like it either – it makes me cringe for some reason.
Just wondering here (not trying to be a troll or anything) are you ok with ppl calling other ppl “dicks”?
yeh I don’t appreciate the use of the c-word. Lets all call each other sluts and hos right?
We’re not in high school here, you won’t get sent to detention for using a word so you don’t need to abbreviate them. If you’re willing to reference them, you should be willing to use them. C-word, S-word, etc seem kind of silly. Just say “cunt” or “slut” (or whatever S-word is). Also, when you have to explain what each letter in an acronym means, it’s pointless to use the acronym.
It’s just an internet pet-peeve. Sorry. It’s Monday and raining.
its early for me to type cunt or slut. i’m not on EST. LOL.
I thought the s-word was “shit”? Some people have more objections to “shits” than “sluts”. I personally don’t mind calling myself a “reformed slut”. Sluts are coming into vogue and some women feel that by using the term on themselves, it’s more empowering – shits are just messy.
Personally, I am surprised that Wendy did call her a “cunt”. I thought “twat” was a more appropriate description of what this bride was acting like, some people feel it’s definitely more vulgar and appropriate for this bride. At least we all seem to agree that what the bride did to her bridesmaid was just totally bad form.
oh gosh, I use that word a lot. But it just sounds so dirty. Almost like a sound effect. Dirty as in..gross, not “bad word” dirty.
Yeh I’m far away from high school but I still say “c-word” because I do NOT use that word. Do you say “n-word” or do you just call out the real thing? Because I’m not comfortable with that word either.
But you’re still *thinking* it, and regardless of what you use you’re still forcing the reader to *say* it in his or her mind. Your internal monologue could be “man, this girl was acting like a cunt…oh, I better use c-word so people don’t get upset.” Then the reader is reading your comment along in their head, “yeah, I agree she was acting like a c-word…oh, she means cunt.”
Using the abbreviation does not stop anyone from saying the word in their head, so what’s the difference? This is especially true on the Internet because people *only* read things in their mind, so you are not preventing anything nor sparing anyone from feeling insulted by the word because it’s still there. It’s like bleeping words on tv. Just dub it with a different word if you don’t want people thinking it.
And I don’t use “n-word” because of that very reason. I would never be in a position where I would *need* to use the abbreviation because I would never use that word. But, if for whatever reason, there was a topic involving that word (say, a discussion on it’s use or a summary of a book or something) I would never use the abbreviation because it is not fooling anyone. I would use the word because it would be being used in an acceptable context (intellectual debate).
I completely agree with you. I don’t use “the n-word” myself, but when I talk about other people saying it or if I’m reading outloud, I say it. It’s not like I’m the one perpetuating it’s use in that context.
that so reminds me of louie ck and how he’s offended by the “n-word” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ
N-word is a racial slur, Cunt is not.
I don’t think it was appropriate of Wendy to use “cunt” in this letter. The LW alludes to being in a religious community (though whether or nit she’s religious herself, she doesn’t say, but since she condones her boyfriend being judgmental about children out of wedlock, I’m going to assume she’s somewhat religious), a community who is usually more sensitive to rude words. I think that it’s counterproductive to deliberately use language that will make your audience not want to listen to you.
I thought she said in the letter that he didn’t say anything about the child out of wedlock?
LW said that he didn’t say it, but it makes more sense that he did and just didn’t tell LW about it… Perhaps the bride heard it through the grapevine or the conversation only came up recently, but considering the fact that the bride basically did an abrupt 180* with her opinion of the boyfriend, i think it’s alogical scenario that she was prompted to cut him out rather than just did so on a whim.
I could also speculate the other side that that is an opinion a boy friend would probably readily share with his girl friend of 6 or 7 years because that is a pretty bold opinion on marriage to have and keep to yourself for that long so she would know if that is how he felt.
It’s logical that he kept that opinion to himself since she has been friends with the bride for 20 years, and it’s a big dating no-no to diss on your SO’s friend’s life decisions.
I don’t know…I think the LW would know if her boyfriend felt that way. And I personally wouldn’t worry terribly if my boyfriend didn’t approve of a friend’s decision. He is dating me, not them.
logically sound speculative arguments are still speculative…I’m not saying you are wrong…we don’t have enough detail about the situation in this regard to know absolutely if this is the case.
I don’t think Wendy was using “language that will make your audiance not want to listen to you”. When warrented, Wendy uses “bad” words to accentuate her point. One could assume that any LW has read at least a handful of Wendy’s responses and know the tone/syle of her writing…the use of one “bad” word should not be a surprise to anyone.
And just because the LW’s BF does not support a child out of wedlock by no means hints to any religious affiliation. Maybe he was concerned they would be unfit parents, or he was concerned about the psycological reprocussions this could have on the child. You don’t have to be religous to be concerned about the welfare of a child.
Oops, sorry for the thumbs down. Especially since you seem to be a Gator fan!
Wow. Just wow. Anyone use that word on me … it’s the worst I can think of.
A little cunt here & there won’t hurt anyone…
Ah yes, but a c*$@ a day ensures the VD’s will stay!
I think we’re all forgetting something. This is WENDY’S site. People write in to hear WENDY’S advice. And the reason that Wendy is so successful, respected, and well-known is because she tells it like it is, in her own style. Features on a site? Topics? Guest writers? That sort of thing, I’m sure she wants our opinion on. But her writing style? That’s hers alone, and I say good for Wendy for not compromising it. You go girl!
I have a major double standard when it comes to cunt usage (no pun intended).
I have no problem with Wendy using the word and to anyone who’s seen Bridesmaids I found the cashier scene with Kristen Wiig telling some tween she’s a cunt rather hilarious.
However, if I heard my boyfriend direct it at a girl, I would not be a fan.
Feel free to attack me with purple thumbs for my hypocrisy!
Reclamation! I’m probably what most would consider a raging feminist, and after reading “Cunt: A Declaration of Indepence,” my usage has gone waaaay up. But I don’t really use it to describe someone who’s being an asshole.
I much prefer “See You Next Tuesday”.
I LOATHE the c-word. If any man ever called a woman that, I would let him know that it’s a deal breaker. It is as disgusting to me as the n-word is to many others. It’s not a word that I want to see reclaimed. I want it bombed into oblivion.
Wendy is spot on! For the most part, if you really don’t want to cause drama or bring up your own wedding then just don’t. Wendy is right, if you’re still hurt about what happened for her wedding then you can say something like “I know its been some time since your wedding but I really wanted to just tell you that I felt a little hurt by some of the things surrounding it particularly about my boyfriend (now fiance).”
If she asks about your wedding later, or hints at who is in your wedding party (ie is she in it) then you can just tell her politely (without a lot of finger pointing and anger etc) “We decided on the wedding party based on who wanted to be there to support both of us, and figured that given the history that we should go with other people”. Or something along those lines that’s not accusatory but at the same time firmly shows that you did not approve the past rudeness to your boyfriend, and you wont stand for any other future issues that could arise from her “feelings about him”.
Frankly, I think the LW’s friend should just feel lucky that she is even invited to the wedding.
I mean it is one thing to not invite a friend’s long-term SO to your wedding based on budget ( a little tacky but generally not a personal dig at the SO) or a desire to have a very small, intimate wedding( i.e. only family and a few very close friends).
It is another to rescind an invitation to a friend’s S.O. because you dislike them. Frankly, I don’t know if I would want someone at my wedding who disliked me enough to ban me from theirs.
LW-
I understand your anger and frustration that your boyfriend was basically UNINVITED to a wedding that YOU were IN and I applaud you on taking the high road by voicing your disapproval but still participating in said wedding ( I don’t know if I would have been as gracious).
I can also understand why you were upset about being lied to about the specifics of the shower. However, while I do not agree with the lying, I actually think your friend was in the right for not inviting you to the shower. In my opinion, it would have been INCREDIBLY tacky to invite your boyfriend to a shower when he is NOT invited to the wedding.
Also, in my experience, showers have the expectation of gifts and tend to be boring/lame. Why would you even want to go to this shower (i.e. invest more time and money in a person who’s wedding party you would have likely opted out of if you hadn’t already purchased your dress )??
Finally, you said “I have barely spoken to her since her wedding…and I don’t see how she could think she would be in my wedding at this point”. There seems to be no need to address a situation when you both seem to be on the same page about her involvement in your wedding.
I would stop dwelling on this frenemie and concentrate on more important thing like attending as many cake tastings as possible 🙂
Agreed! This is your time to be happy so spend it planning your own wedding and don’t worry about her. She probably doesn’t want to be in it anyway since your fiance would be there and she doesn’t want to be around him. You only need to deal with her if she asks about being in the wedding and she probably won’t. She’s an exfriend and you don’t have to worry about an ex in the present.
It would have been tacky if she invited him to the shower when he wasn’t invited to the wedding, but the fact he wasn’t invited to the wedding was shady and tacky to begin with. It’s the bride’s fault she was in the predicament of not being able to invite the LW’s boyfriend to the couples shower.
And WTF is a couples shower?!
I completely agree. I thought I made my thoughts clear that I was Team LW and that the friend was TOTALLY in the wrong when I said,
“I understand your anger and frustration that your boyfriend was basically UNINVITED to a wedding that YOU were IN and I applaud you on taking the high road by voicing your disapproval but still participating in said wedding ( I don’t know if I would have been as gracious).”
Regarding the shower, the LW said she had already voiced her disapproval but decided to stay in the wedding party when she found out she was not invited. I just didn’t understand why she was so upset or surprised about not being invited to a couple’s shower(vom) as the bridezilla had already banned her boyfriend from the wedding. I get being furious about the wedding, I just don’t know why the shower snub pushed her over the edge or why even if they were invited her boyfriend would consider going?
couples*
Gotcha. I figured she was offended because the bride and the other bmaids carried on this big charade, changing stories and lying to LW’s face. That would make me mad too. How do you wade through that kind of confusion?! From the letter it sounded to me like the bride had zero ability to politely and maturely handle her desire not to have LW’s bf around.
I must imagine that letter writers such as this one live on another planet where people like her girlfriend treat their amigos like cockroaches. Everybody needs attention but to get it at the expense of other peoples feelings is no better then a leach sucking blood. That dame needs to be unfriended but as Wendy wisely recommended not maliciously. Don’t stoop to her low level in the social gutter but if it gives her a metaphorical black eye (pause) try not to gloat too much.
If she didn’t want him at her own wedding – why on earth would she want to voluntarily put herself in the position of being in his presence at his OWN wedding? To support him? You? This isn’t a friend and you definitely need to MOA with a swiftness.
I don’t think any explaination is necessary- She’s not your good friend anymore, why would she be in your wedding? If she asks you why, you can simply say that she’s no longer among your closest friends, so you chose not to ask her. You owe her nothing more than that after the way she treated you.
Wendy’s spot-on, as usual. This girl told you she didn’t like your boyfriend (of I’m assuming 6 or 7ish years? So clearly she’s gotten along with him all that time) for no valid reason and disinvited him from the wedding, then excluded you from wedding party events and still wanted you to be in her wedding? That’s beyond coocoo bananas and you are under absolutely no obligation to even invite her to your wedding given how she treated you and that you haven’t spoken since then.
But, there’s no need to make this situation about your wedding party, because really, it isn’t. It’s about how horribly she treated you and how excluded she made you feel. If you want to repair the friendship, talk to her about it, but if you don’t, just don’t ask her to be in your wedding and let it go. If she asks you or anyone else why you didn’t ask her to be a bridesmaid, then feel free to explain, but I wouldn’t provoke a confrontation if you don’t ultimately want to be friends in the future, no matter how tempting it would be to tell her off.
Actually, there IS a reason why the bride doesn’t like LW’s boyfriend… Because HE is judgey and disapproving of the bride and groom having a child out of wedlock. If there was someone who passed judgment on me like that, who didn’t support the idea of my relationship and love of my boyfriend, I wouldn’t want them at my wedding either.
That’s not exactly what the letter says. It’s not totally clear but I think her friend who was getting married proposed that objection as the LW states “Her reasoning was because “he didn’t agree with their marriage” (due to having a child out-of-wedlock). This was ridiculous and I told her he never said such a thing”
Maybe her bf did say something to her friend and the LW is not aware but I doubt it since her friend felt the need to come up with another reason “so she made up another excuse, which was that he was “mean to her brother in high school.”
When faced with blatant denial of the validity of your reason for doing something, isn’t it logical to add back-up arguments to your side of things? It may have seemed to the LW that this bride was just spitting out excuses, but maybe she’s had a *slight* problem with him all along and with his bigoted opinion coming to light, she finally decided o put her foot down. I’m jus saying, it’s possible that the LW might not be clear on the whole situation. No one wants to think that their future husband could ever have been a jerk.
Are you the bride?
Jesus Christ, can you possibly make any more baseless assumptions in your post? Where the hell are you pulling all these accusations from? Your c—?!?
I thought the LW stated that that was a lie and her bf said no such thing which spawned the second random excuse of “bullying her brother” from the bride in question.
It’s very possible that her view of the situation is unobjective and uninformed. Really, does it make sense that the friend who just cut the boyfriend off out of the blue after them being cool for so long?
I don’t know that it makes any more sense that the boyfriend doesn’t support their marriage because they have a child. If they are somewhat religious, wouldn’t the boyfriend want them to get married?
Amen. I don’t think the LW should even invite this woman to her wedding. They’re not friends anymore, and she was treated like crap. LW doesn’t owe her an explanation. If she feels the need to explain to her ex-friend why she doesn’t want her in the bridal party or at the wedding, then she should do so with as little drama as possible. Explaining to her why she isn’t invited sounds like a helluva lot less drama than having her around during the wedding planning to cause problems.
If you’ve barely spoken to her since her wedding, how do you know that she’s even thinking about being a member of your wedding party? This suggests that you are still talking with her on some level. If her bridezilla behavior was that deporably disrespectful to your boyfriend and your status as a couple, you don’t have to continue talking to her, let alone ask her into your wedding party, or even on the guest list. Just MOA on her and your friendship with her – you have other things to worry about.
Wait, you still invited this chick to your wedding after how poorly she treated you?!?! Yikes, I guess it’s too late to do anything about that now, but seriously LW, this is supposed to be a happy and exciting time for you. I honestly wouldn’t waste any more time and energy on this girl. Just pick the people for your wedding party and don’t say anything to her unless she asks you directly. If she does ask you, say something along the lines of “I’ve given very careful thought to the members of my wedding party and chose my most supportive friends”. Only if she prods you further would I bring up her past treatment of you.
I’m confused. Did the friend start dropping hints about expecting to be involved in the wedding party? Did I miss something in this email where the friend made a point of trying to be involved? If you’ve barely spoken to her since last June (and by “last June”, I’m assuming you mean June 2010, not June 2011), and you don’t want to have her in your wedding party . . . then don’t. Just don’t invite her to be in it.
Whether you unburden your anger/resentment/other such feelings upon here is a completely different issue, and I’d defer to Wendy’s advice. But I think you should be careful not to confuse whether or not to talk to her about the issues she caused with whether or not to have her in the wedding. The former is complex; the latter is VERY straight-forward, in my opinion.
love wendy’s response, can’t believe she said c*&%! lmfao
i just thought it was funny to hear wendy say cunt. how am i getting purple thumbs for that? i mean i get alot of purple thumbs, so i’m used to it, but still 😛
I think it’s a sensitive word round these parts….I think it’s hilarious how polarized it is…but because it is so polarized I rarely, if ever, use it. haha.
How bad of a bully was the LW’s boyfriend to the friend’s little brother? My brothers were bullied pretty hard in middle school and it might be 15 years later but I wouldn’t invite the bullies to my wedding, even if they were dating one of my oldest friend. Am I wrong in picking up on this? LW pretty much dismisses her fruend’s willingness to stick up for her brother as irrelevant, but I feel the right reaction to that should have been “I’m so sorry to hear that. You know, BF has changed a lot over the last 6-7 years and has mentioned to me how sorry he is that he was such a cunt in highschool to your brother. Maybe this could be his chance to make amends?”
I think the issue with the bullying was more that it was an alternative excuse offered, with the intention of keeping the bf out of the wedding. Had it been brought up as the sole reason he wasn’t invited, then it might have carried some more weight. It sounds, though, that the bride was simply fishing for any excuse to keep the LW’s bf away from the ceremony.
I totally get your point, as I was a victim of bullying in middle school, but it’s really the fact that it sounded more as an excuse than a sincere concern. It wasn’t the first thing she told her friend & she technically said she would invite the LW’s first, then changed her story around.
I would be more on bored with that was brought up 6 or 7 years ago when they started dating…
ugh, board….stupid Monday
A lot of people were really mean to me in middle school/high school, but I wasn’t bullied. I think people throw the term “bully” around pretty loosely these days. When I was in school, bullying was a form of harassment. If being mean to someone = bullying, then EVERYONE in high school was a bully! Let’s face it, teens are MEAN to each other.
Anyway, I would be inclined to believe the bridezilla if she had stuck with one excuse instead of piling on new, equally absurd ones. It would be one thing if she didn’t even invite the boyfriend in the first place, but she did. She let her friend spend money on a bridesmaids dress before banning him from the wedding. Only a Cunt with a capital C would do that.
Heh, I kind of wonder if something awkward happened between the friend and the boyfriend to make things awkward all of a sudden last year. Maybe he hit on her/she hit on him one drunken night together. Maybe they have some sort of history that they never told the LW about, and for some reason it got really awkward before the wedding. It’s also possible that the LW boyfriend is a boorish ass, and the bride couldn’t handle his behavior anymore and decided she was not going to pay to have such a negative person at her wedding. I’m kind of curious what the friend’s side of the story would be…
I also wondered that…more than likely she hit on him drunk if that situation happened.
You really should have told her what’s on your mind from the beginning. I get that you wanted to be “drama-free” for her wedding, which is very thoughtful of you, but there’s a difference between avoiding drama & being walked all over. You were the latter. Being a bride does not give her license to be a petty bitch, no matter how good a friend she was, which if she was, she woudn’t have excluded you from all the pre-wedding events, excluded your boyfriend from the wedding, & everything else. You absolutely had every right to tell her something, but that’s all in the past. I def. agree that it’s not a good idea to call her specifically to tell her she’s not in your wedding. She might not even expect it at this point. IMO, you can go one of two ways, either get off your chest what she did & how it made you feel (sans your wedding) or distance yourself from her & if she approaches you, then you tell her. Honestly I usually do the distancing, but other people prefer the former option. All in all, understand that this girl was being a crappy person & that is NEVER ok.
I can’t believe this girl stood up at said “friend’s” wedding. I would have bowed out, tried to return the dress or sold it, and never talked to her again, because DAMN what a bitch.
Un-invite her to your wedding….seriously….but keep her husband as a guest and tell him he is still welcome. PLEASE do that.
Nice. I like the way you think! 🙂
Haha. I’m usually a turn the other cheek kind of guy because I figure I can take it…but some people deserve bad things.
I hear ya. I usually plot really good revenges, but when it comes to actually doing it I feel bad : / But, sometimes (rarely) I do go through with it.
well that’s a form of therapy…day dreams never hurt anyone.
IT IS WENDY’S BLOG AND SHE’LL CUNT IF SHE WANTS TO.
Totally agree. Everyone who reads her blog doesn’t particularly care that she used the word. I don’t particularly care for Quentin Taratino movies because he uses waaaaaayyyy to much profanity, so you know what I do? I don’t watch his stuff or just try to ignore the most offensive parts if I’m forced to watch one of his movies.
Seriously, it’s that simple.
Besides Wendy’s pregnant so she gets a free pass on using cunt early on a Monday morning. 🙂
Exactly, I said the same thing before I saw your comment MsMisery. Thumbs up!
I think it is interesting how much power people give words.
It made me wonder if people would be equally upset if the word “dick” had been used.
I honestly doubt your bridezilla friend will contact you, her world revolves around her alone. If she does call, just tell her given the circumstances, that you don’t feel it’s appropriate for her to be in your wedding party, let alone even attend you wedding. She made her choice, now you make yours.
My head is all mixed up on this one. On one hand, we’ve read a ton of letters from disgruntled bridesmaids and where the advice has been to suck it up. Perhaps this bride didn’t have it in her budget to include the BF. Perhaps the shower really WAS for a select audience. (Can I add too that I am almost jealous that this bridesmaid didn’t have to turn over enormous amounts of time and money toward planning and paying for the shower. I know, I know, that’s not the point but just had to add that. I would love to be excused from planning/paying/attending bridal showers!)
In this case, I DO agree with Wendy that this bride sounds likes a jerk. Probably. Based on this side of the story and the information we’ve been given. And I agree too about LW not needing to say anything to the friend unless approached by her.
But the c-word throws me way off. I don’t understand why that level of hostility is needed here. Maybe I’m prudish but I feel that’s a word only serves to escalates matters.
This letter is Exhibit A as to why none of you are old (or mature) enough to get married.
THIS!!! This was my very first thought after reading this letter.
I am constantly amazed at how we as a society, especially women who are always taught to be kind and polite, have adapted passive aggressive measures to deal with uncomfortable situations in the guise of politeness. I was just having this conversation with my boyfriend. Ex: I have absolutely terrible hearing, and when I go out to the movies, all I can hear is the person next to me chatting. It would be the easiest thing in the world to politely ask this person to stop speaking during the movie, but what do we do? We do the passive aggressive clearing throat thing, turning our head, rocking our chair back and forth….all while thinking that THIS is the most accepted way to deal with a rude person.
To me, this is EXACTLY what happened here with LW’s bitchtastic friend and her wedding. This “friend” did everything she possibly could to be rude to the LW as some proof of dedication to her boyfriend and as some projection defense mechanism bullsh*t to pre-protect herself from being judged for having a baby out of wedlock (who imagines someone saying that and then when they’re caught lying thinks up another excuse? So weird) and what did the LW do? She cleared her throat, turned her head, and rocked in her chair back in forth. She suppressed her anger and made herself believe (as we all do) that still going through with the wedding was “the right thing to do” when it was really, “I don’t like confrontation, especially with a bride, and going anyway will make me look like the better person in this situation which is all I can hope to get out of this messed up friendship”.
Why does this have to happen?? There was a way to end this sitch in a healthy and polite manner, exactly how Wendy described. Doing things that are socially acceptable but undermine our self respect is not the same thing as politeness. And frankly, if the LW had been more kindly honest about how she feels earlier, she may never have had to let this escalate to the wedding and could have found out early that her friend’s bitchy behavior was her assuming that her and her boyfriend judged her (that is totally what it is…if someone excludes you out of things, its because they already feel like they’re being excluded by you). Don’t include her in the wedding and don’t talk to her about past issues. If you give her sh*t now when the merit for it has already passed you’re just validating her previous impression of you and her actions.
Sarah, you’re brilliant!
I was thinking that the bride was doing some gnarly self-sabotage. “If you’re going to judge me, buddy, I’ll give you something to judge me for.”
It also seems that perhaps the bride was trying to curdle the emotional milk so that the LW would walk away from the relationship. In any relationship, if you do enough nasty little things to someone, they will eventually react. Individually, the actions might be small enough, but on a cumulative level it’s huge. I think the bride wanted the LW to dump her so that she could be the victim.
LW, you don’t need to have anyone in your wedding or at your wedding that you don’t want.
is cunt really that intense of a word? maybe I’ve been watching too much british tv but not that harsh. i use the word all the time (in describing someone).
Girl I don’t know why you didn’t confront her about what a jerk she was being at her own wedding. You should have pressed her right then and there on what was her real motivation behind all of a sudden not wanting your boyfriend anywhere near her wedding. But that’s in the past. Clearly she doesn’t think she did anything wrong, or just doesn’t care, and has chosen not to reach out to you after her wedding. And it’s pretty clear you have moved passed not only what she did to you, but your friendship.
I don’t think you need to explain a thing to her in regards to your bridal party. It’s your bridal party and has nothing to do with her. I honestly doubt she will even bring it up to you, or even cares. Leave the next correspondance between you two to be her RSVP to your wedding. Close the door and enjoy this great time in your life.
And about Wendy using the C-word. I think there is definitely a time and a place for it. There are some people, and some situations, where the only word harsh and real enough to explain it is C*nt!
Actually, I would REALLY like to know what the LW’s husband allegedly did to the friend’s brother that was so horrible. Why? Well, because frankly there are a couple of things that were said and done in high school to me (as a gay person) (by totally homophobic assholes) that I will simply never, ever forgive. They also conveniently would never apologize or at least they didn’t at a reunion a while back. (Yes, sadly, high school was a heck of a lot longer ago that six or so years for poor Bittergaymark…) But seriously. Um, yeah. I would love to know what the actual charge is. For all we know, the fiance was a REAL asshole.
I mean, if he really never said the whole thing about “child out of wedlock” then one wonders where the idea even came from? Could it be because he is some ultra religious homophobic asshole? I dunno. Obviously, I am speculating here. But frankly, it’s the only speculation that fits quite so well in this case. So, yes. For once, I would genuinely LOVE to find out more info in an update — although it would probably have to be the friend writing in and not the LW if the truth is as dark as I suspect… The amount of bullying in highschool of gay youth by whacked out “good christian” kids is staggering. Please go screen though the It Gets Better started by the brilliant Dan Savage…
So maybe the friend doesn’t want the asshole there simply to protect her brother. Imagine the letter from this perspective… “The guy that made my brothers life HELL absolute HELL all through high school which was only six years ago has somehow married my best friend! I get that my friend thinks he has changed… But you know what? He has never apologized for treating my brother like a “worthless fag” and recent comments he made while out to dinner made it abundantly clear that he still feels the same way. Am I wrong to not want this jerk to be at my wedding? I don’t know that he will be an asshole to my brother, but I don’t know that he won’t either… Help!”
With regards to the use of the word, cunt. Um, ladies? Really? It’s just a word. And I have to confess that sometimes it really IS the only one that fits. That said, I don’t think it does in the particular letter. Now looking back at several from last week, however…
😉
While I TOTALLY agree with you about the high school bullying (when to a Catholic HS and I took a lot of shit myself and I’m still not over some of it and it has been much more then 6 years or so) the part that confuses me is that the bride knew the LW was dating this guy and if he was such a douche and she didn’t want him there then why invite him in the first place? Why not talk to the LW before any invitations were put out and work it out then, rather then inviting the BF and then uninviting him? And the bride knew the LW was with this guy when she asked the LW to be in her wedding. So that’s what I don’t get about the excuse the bride gave the LW. Did the bride just suddenly find out about it? And if so, and if it was such a concern, wouldn’t it have been better to talk to the LW about it instead of just uninviting the BF? I don’t know – that HS bully excuse just isn’t sitting right for me in this particular situation.
Agree. Seems like the bf did something to annoy her after he was invited (and before the wedding). Could be anything. It’s still pretty tacky to uninvite someone, especially your close friend’s bf! Unless he did something spectacularly horrible. If that’s the case, why not come out and say it instead of acting like a 8yr old..
Thank you for articulating this better than I have. Although it’s postulation that the brother’s issue is homosexuality, it makes sense that LW’s SO must have done SOMETHING damning in order to make this friend not want him in her wedding.
Once again, it seems too many DearWendy-ers just rush to go “rah rah, sister!” without looking at the letter even remotely critically. The fact that everybody else (multiple parties and events no less) in complicit in the exclusion of LW and her husband is actually pretty damning…As it shows that they all agree with the friend on this issue and NOT the LW…
Also, if the brother is gay, then he probably would bring a boyfriend to the wedding. To the couple’s shower… To the other party mentioned. And the jerk husband would probably be a real jerk about it. Trust me. I have seen this happen…. Heck even if he wasn’t gay, the brother would still be at all the events. Why would he want to hang with some loser asshole from high school? Look, if it was me, and my brother versus my friend’s asshole husband? Hands down the brother would win every time… How could the friend NOT chose her brother here? Seriously.
I agree with you two that it is definitely possible that there was some kind of issue, but if it was bullying then why was he invited in the first place and then uninvited? If for some reason the child out of wedlock issue was true, I could see that as being after an invite (ie: out to dinner, boyfriend says something about it, they re-evaluate having him come to the wedding), but bullying from high school was an existing issue. I don’t know, maybe her brother found out he was coming (providing this is a true situation) and asked his sister to uninvite him? That’s the part I just can’t get around.
It’s very possible that the brother simply never told his sis what was up until she was like, “Guess who my bridemaid Carol married?” I certainly kept a lot of the crap that happened to me in highschool to myself. Also, initially, the boyfriend didn’t think he could go to the wedding…
And you think it’s more appropriate for you to draw this conclusion based on your own personal experiences and ZERO information from the LW, instead of taking her words at face value?
There’s critical reading. And then there’s outright paranoia. I think you’ve seriously crossed the line here if you believe that your conjectures hold any sort of validity in his discussion.
Yes, I have to agree with you. It really seemed as if Bitter’s comments are completely biased by his own experiences, which, by the way, totally suck! However, it seems as if it is quite a reach to automatically assume that was the issue between the friend’s brother and the LW’s fiance.
I don’t think there is enough info here one way or another. But frankly, labeling somebody a cunt for standing by her brother and not some friend’s husband is, frankly, a real stretch. That was my point.
I also wasn’t proposing that my theory was correct, but merely that it was just as possible as the ones that all of you were just as easily jumping to…
Fair enough. But the LW is the one who wrote in, not the bride. Since she’s the one we’re basing all of this discussion on, and with no further information on what actually happened, it’s only appropriate that we take her point of view, and respond from there.
Offering an alternate perspective is fine, but in this case, she simply hasn’t offered enough details to warrant these wild assumptions that you’re levying against her. To that end, implying that she (or her boyfriend) must be at fault here is way more of a stretch than calling the bride a cunt. This is Dear Wendy, not Dear Devil’s Advocate.
I get your point dude, I really do…but this guy has been in the LW’s life for almost half the span of the friendship with the girl in question…don’t you think bigotry that horrible would have been brought to the LW attention WHEN she started getting to know her now fiance? I’m certainly not going to say it is out of the question…I just think the time line and the fact it wasn’t the first excuse brought up makes me think it’s more likely the friend was fishing for excuses.
She very well might feel the same way. Seriously. Who knows? All I am saying is the amount of LWs on here who are dating or married to assholes and somehow fail to realize it is truly staggering…
I mean the LW might be equally bigoted and love Michelle Bachmann. Seriously, who knows?
God I miss the days of the old CCC, the Civilian Conservation Corps. Now all we have are Conservative Christian Cunts, and they’re screwing the cuntry instead of fixing it.
This lady is a churcher, and churchers make their own dramatic problems from their own dogmatic bullshit. Her friend is too. Non-churchy people rarely have anywhere near this much political bullshit in their weddings.
Where in the letter does it say she’s a churcher? People get married in churches for a lot of reasons that have NOTHING to do with whether they actually are “churchy.”
Who knows? Maybe the boyfriend did nothing more than repost something on facebook that talked about the rate of children born out of wedlock. Maybe he “liked” something that they took to be offensive. Maybe he did gay-bash the bride’s brother. Maybe he’s a huge bag of dicks and the LW is completely complicit in his dickishness. We have NO way of knowing.
I agree that the letter is very slanted, but for fuck’s sake, why does everyone have to invent theories?
The bride wanted to know if she should say something. The bride was aware of what she was doing. Saying something won’t change the outcome. During the wedding, it would have been a good time to ask the bride if she wanted you to stand down. Now it’s in the past, so just forget about it. Invite her if you want, but don’t put her in your wedding party. IF she asks – and there is no guarantee she will, because if she thinks your fiance is that much of an asshole, she probably won’t – just let her know that you are going with a small party or that your fiance didn’t feel comfortable with her in the party.
It concerns me that today in this thread people are more willing to accept that LW’s best friend for two decades has just been randomly hit with a case of the Absolute Cunt-y Crazies than that she actually has logical reasoning or at least an understandable stimulus behind acting this way. Because people just randomly do 180’s and turn into complete bitches overnight without provocation.
We don’t think she was hit with a random bout of crazy….we (or at least I) just don’t think the past bride was forth-coming with the real reason the fiance wasn’t invited. The first excuse was reason enough…and she obviously back-pedaled to another excuse rather than standing her ground. You don’t change excuses like that if you aren’t bull shitting and you certainly don’t deflect to a 3rd party that you know the other person won’t confirm the story with when the first story you told involving the related parties fell flat.
Unfortunately we are limited to the story we have been told and the amigious details contained with in.
…as usual… 🙂
Oh they do. Weddings make people crazy. CRAZY. I completely disagree with treating people like crap just because you decided to tie the knot, but that doesn’t make the phenomenon any less of a reality!
I swear it’s like they put something in the water at those bridal salons. I’ve seen otherwise totally rational, sane, calm and collected women go completely ballistic over the shade of rose in their centerpieces or the ribbon tie on the gift bags…or over the perceived slight they received from someone about their wedding and if he’s going to say that well then I just won’t ever see him or anyone he’s ever talked to ever again and I DARE anyone to contradict me!!!! …And thus starts the bridal party bitchfest.
It’s interesting that the word Groomzilla isn’t even in the vernacular…
Well I think a lot of that has to do with social conditioning. What drives me nuts about the whole wedding culture is that it’s supposed to be “her day.” When do you ever hear anyone say it’s “his day?” The idea that it’s all about the bride like it’s her one moment in the sun and the MOST IMPORTANT moment in her life is so antiquated. And the stereotype is that the groom only participates in the wedding planning while rolling his eyes. Heteronormitivity and shoved-down-your-throat gender roles at their finest, but that’s what wedding culture looks like these days. And people buy into it. That’s why it’s such a profitable market.
I feel like in the case of a bridezilla the groom either just mentally checks out till its over or even worse gives in to the craziness….I think I’d cancel the wedding if a girl I was dating / marrying became a bridezilla though…but maybe I’ve been single too long.
No, my boyfriend would totally break up with me if i turned into a bridezilla. He is the one who cares about having a wedding anyway, so I told him that IF/WHEN we get married he can do all the planning himself 😛 .
But WHY would she have to fish for excuses? Why would she cut someone out of the wedding, and her life, so drastically and suddenly without sufficient provocation, unless some sort of serious trespass occurred?
I’m not saying that what you’re theorizing isn’t possible, but logically it’s just as flawed an argument as LW’s friend being crazy.
1. If you believe the scenario the LW presents,then her friend is at worst immature, nasty, and petty and at best terrible at communicating her needs. Even if the bride was in the right, why did she ask LW to be in the wedding knowing all these issues would arise? That’s on the bride, and she handled the situation terribly.
2. If you assume the LW’s bf has done something horrible, then the LW must be completely delusional about the situation.
Either way, one of these ladies is whacked (and maybe they both are, who knows?). I, personally, felt the letter read genuine enough to take LW’s side. This is because I’ve been in several weddings and have seen generally calm, rational women go absolutely batshit over their weddings and treat people like crap. After one wedding, I told my bf that we should just elope and was dead serious for about two months. He knows me better than I do sometimes, though, and knew all along I’d get over that. I don’t *ever* want to treat the people in my life badly just because I’m getting married, but I digress! Your take on the letter is from the standpoint of having been bullied. Either way, we’re both being anecdotal. Maybe you’re reading all that “rah rah, sister” stuff off the women who have suffered through a bridezilla moment (and trust me- it ain’t pretty).
1) The “friend” was acting like a cunt. She IS a twat.
2) Don’t bother calling her. Don’t invite her to the wedding. If she calls you to ask why she wasn’t invited, you can tell her honestly that she was disrespectful of your (now) fiance’ during her wedding and disrespectful of you while you were in her wedding party. That only your 20 years of friendship kept you from backing out on her short-notice.
3) Do not ask people to hide anything from her. Do not avoid mentioning her, but don’t actively mention her (i.e., compare her wedding to yours, her attitudes to yours, etc) to anyone. This is not a tit for tat or a grudge match. Let the relationship die naturally. For everyone.
I probably would have told her off long ago, (Why do people think getting married allows them to be straight-up pricks?) but at this point, if it were me, I would probably ice her out and not even invite her to the wedding. I would consider myself a nice person, but once you’ve dicked me over like that, it’s OVER.
I disagree with the part where you tell her during her wedding. I always feel like, no matter how legit, if you speak your mind about something to the bride in the time leading up to or during her wedding, you’ll just get dubbed a royal bitch for “ruining” it for her and it will overshadow the entire point of what youre trying to express. Since functionally theres no reason for the bride to have known the effect of her misbehavior prior to her wedding anyway, i dont think its a huge deal she didnt tell her at the time. It almost seems catty to throw it out there like, “oh and BTW this is why youre NOT going to be in my wedding…” i think its best if you quietly mind your own business, make the choices that you think are best for you, and then when the time comes and she flat out ASKS why she isnt? then tell her honestly.
i am not engaged but i have a friend who is super paranoid about her appearance (no idea why) and shes pretty and average sized gal who constantly wears cardigans in 90 degree weaher and cries and whines incessantly about being fat. i always think man i would never have her in my wedding. she was recently in our friends wedding and spent every bridemaid dress-shopping outing crying and a mess about looking fat in dresses, in top of being a crying and emotional mess the day of the friends wedding bc you know she was afraid to walk out in front of people in a strapless dress. if i got engaged and she asked me why, id sure as tell her why she wasnt! id feel crappy doing it, but if someone asks, you have a right to stand behind your decisions.
I, particularly, do not favor the c-word and I really don’t like being called it. But for some weird reason I like calling other people that word when it seems appropriate. And this was appropriate. So, Go Wendy! That fucking shady cunt. Whoops. I said the f-word too. Wonder how many people will find that offensive..
I’m offended that you blew a perfect opportunity to nail the profanity trifecta by inserting such a clean word between “fucking” and “cunt”….
All of the panties-in-a-twist comments about the cunt word are cracking me up! Keep it coming, Wendy!
Everyone asked a few good questions that were left out so here they are:
-are we religious? yes but his own brother had a child out of wedlock and then got married so of course this isn’t an issue!
-what did my then boyfriend do to the brother in highschool? First of all the brother is very much so straight (and we have gay friends). In high school The brother would start some confrontations from what other class mates in different grades would say but others would say my fiancé (then boyfriend) would start them sometimes. This was mainly before we started dating and neither I nor my ex-friend were there to witness what really happened. Needless to say it was a mutual dislike on both ends. The brother and I get along just fine!
-I don’t talk much anymore to her since my engagement, but figure she expects to be in the wedding from comments she has made such as “oh this is so exciting”, “I’m so happy for you both”, “it’s about time, haha” and “oh this is gonna be fun” and other hints about colors and dresses for BM’s.
What confuses me the most is she went all this time not saying anything about this, then all the sudden it was an issue, and after really treating me unkindly, she sends me messages via text or online that say “I miss you”, etc. I don’t know if she is playing dumb or seriously doesn’t know that what she did was wrong and could have Handled it differently, instead of putting me between a rock and a hard place. I only tried to work things out because of the time period of the friendship and her child whom I have been in her life since day one, heck I was one of the hostess for her baby shower! Needless to say I think you are all right, I need to move on and if she brings it up then tell her I’ve gone with someone who is closer and more supportive of my relationship. If there is an underlying issue as to why she didn’t want to involve my boyfriend she hasn’t told me and to this day I get along fine with her family and brother…if bullying were the reason I don’t think they would be so kind to me, especially her brother!
Thanks for the clarification….it is strange she is saying these supportive and exciting things after treating your fiance like rubbish…fuck her.
I’d just like to clarify:
The term is “all of a sudden” NOT “all the sudden” !!!!
Jesus fucking christ, that one really bugs me.
Granny, I used voice dictation, it was a mistake 🙂