His Take: “Should I Find a New FWB?”
He told me in the start of it he did not want a relationship and I was fine with that since I was just getting out of a three-year relationship. Since we live about an hour away from each other, most of our communication is on the phone, though in the past year we have seen each other six times. During our first meeting, we ended up making out heavily, but since then the times I have seen him we haven’t touched other than the occasional hug. On his birthday in June, which I gave him custom-made drumsticks with a matching design to his drumkit, we talked and flirted a lot and ended up having phone sex (we have done this on occasion through out the years). Since then zero flirtation on his part. I havent asked if he had a girlfriend because he always has time to text, and he hasn’t asked me.
I just invited him to a concert in October to which he replied that he isn’t sure if he can yet as he already has some plans that month, but he would let me know, which is fine. I am a big flirt, so I tell him I loved seeing him and that he looked great, to which i get no reply. I then tell him if I’m flirting too much he should tell me because I don’t want to overstep my bounds. Again, I get no reply. I am so confused. I will admit that I like him and would like to be FWB relationship with, but I don’t understand what he wants from me.
I have had FWB before and we haven’t gone out to dinner, or done any of the things like I do with this guy. I don’t want to tell him I like him for fear of him cutting off our friendship. I have even gone so far as to tell him that his mysteriousness drives me crazy, to which I just get smiles and the occasional flirty text. I am on the verge of seeing someone else if he can’t just tell me what he wants straight up. What should I do? — FWB or Bust
MATT: I’m losing my hair. About two months ago I found some cheap re-growth product at the local pharmacy, decided to spring for it and started using it faithfully—dreaming of the day that my ever-expanding forehead would soon be covered again in glorious hair. I had sort of convinced myself it was working when I asked my friend Ben if he could tell.
He changed the subject. When I pressed him for an answer, drawing him into me and nodding my head before him so that he could really get a good look (“Don’t you see those little tiny hairs, Ben?”), he just shrugged.
If you ask me, there are some lessons for you in this little hair-parable: people shift and grow, but most people’s first instincts don’t change and some people just aren’t equipped to deliver the hard news. My forehead wants to lose hair and my friend doesn’t have the heart or the guts to tell me directly that I’m throwing time and money at a lost cause, and I’m sorry to report that your boy isn’t that into you, and doesn’t have the balls or brains to spell it out for you, despite your obvious affection for him.
Go forth and date…someone who is willing to show you the attention and honesty you deserve.
JAREK: Okay, I’m just going to recap here in case you didn’t actually read the letter you submitted. You had one class with a guy in college, reconnected three years ago online, developed a friendship (the most he told you he was interested in) that consisted of phone flirting. In the last year, despite only being an hour away, you saw him roughly every two months, of which you only made out once. You bought him unreciprocated gifts, he hesitating on attending a concert with you, you want a FWB relationship with him despite having actually feelings for the guy, and you’re confused because he hasn’t told you what he wants. Can you name one thing this guy did that involves even the tiniest amount of energy to indicate he actually likes you and wants to be with you?
When I’m at the grocery store and am offered a free sample, I take it. The lady teased me with a meatball on a toothpick, so I exerted about as much effort as extending my arm to get something offered. It’s very one-sided. If she was never there it’s not like I would have thought, “Man, I could go for a meatball right about now.” So if all the flirting is being initiated by you and he just goes with it, he’s not really indicating he wants something more. In fact, he’s not indicating anything at all. He’s responding to flirting. He’s engaging in a convenient infatuation. So really, you have nothing to lose by being honest with him. You shouldn’t fear cutting off the friendship because it is the friendship that is frustrating you. Just come out and ask him if he wants more, and don’t be afraid to start seeing that other person because, I’m sorry to say, this guy is not interested in pursuing something deeper than phone sex.
BITTER GAY MARK: It’s time to cool your jets. And rethink things. You gave him what sounds like a pretty kick ass one-of-a-kind present, the likes of which NONE of my FWBs have ever given me. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No, but it may have simply been too much too soon. Moreover, it doesn’t exactly scream FWB. Instead, it squeals, “I really, REALLY wanna be your girlfriend!” Herein lies the problem — with lies being the operative word. I think you are lying to yourself about your feelings for this guy. You are doing classic FWB disaster moves such as behaving like the girlfriend you claim you don’t want to be — all the while delivering killer gifts as you try to lock down future “dates” months in advance… When that fails, you proceed to send a rather needy/insecure text filled with worry and regret that you “may” have been too flirtatious…and all this AFTER phone sex, no less.
Come on! I think you know all too well that you definitely have been too flirtatious. Yet you long for reassurance that you have not…Why? Because then you can flirt some more! Honey, you are the Queen of Mixed Signals! is it any wonder the poor guy is confused? Hell, I’m confused. So are you, it seems. You have to figure out whether you truly want to date this guy or not. Deep down, I think you know you do. I think you know you want much more than an FWB relationship. The problem is, of course, that he may not. That said, you definitely owe it to yourself to solve this mystery. Ask him out. For real. This other guy you mention at the eleventh hour is merely a silly distraction. How can I know that? Because if you were REALLY into this other, clearly available guy, the ever elusive Mystery Man would simply vanish from your mind altogether. Stop lying to yourself. Stop lying to him. Take a risk. The worst thing he can say is, “No.” But even then you will at least be freed from this limbo.
JOE: He’s already been very, very clear about what he wants, which is to not pursue anything physical with you. You’ve made it obvious that you’re interested, and he has consistently backed down when you’ve become too forward. The phone sex is not a sign of real interest — it certainly can be, but not in this case. I drive an hour per day to work. I’ve driven an hour for pizza, for good coffee, and to see a new computer store open. I’d sure as hell drive an hour for sex. The fact that he hasn’t, and that you’ve clearly been interested for years, means that it’s not going to happen.
He’s apparently not confrontational, which is why he ignores texts he finds uncomfortable. He will likely never explicitly tell you that he does not want to pursue a relationship – physical or otherwise. However, he’s already let you know, just not with words. Maybe he has a girlfriend. Maybe his sexual orientation isn’t towards you. Maybe he’s just not attracted. Maybe he has other issues. In the end, though, it doesn’t matter, because the final result is a lack of interest in being physical with you. So, see the other guy. I suspect your friendship with the first guy will improve significantly once your interest in him becomes truly platonic.
ART: You are on the verge of seeing someone else if this man, who doesn’t live near you and won’t text you back, doesn’t drop everything and start seeing you exclusively? Come on. He is far from the only man. If you can’t pry an “I like you too” out of him after months and months [years, actually — ed], that’s because it probably isn’t there. And seriously, who has plans for “October”? That’s some letting-you-down-gently bullshit. You have needs and you need to get them, and yourself, filled. Go date another man and be happy with that other man.
* If you’d like to ask the guys a question, simply email me at [email protected] with “His Take” in the subject line and I’ll pass your question along to them.
The guys have said it all to perfection. Listen to them!!
Do people really engage in phone sex?! I’m being serious here. Maybe I’m just the biggest prude in the world, but sounds awkward and sorta pointless.
Matt-loved the analogy! LW, listen to these responses. Sometimes the truth hurts is all I can come up with to offer here.
An ex had phone sex at me once. I say “at” me because I didn’t find it hot in the least and participated just enough to humor him. He didn’t seem to notice though and went on huffing and puffing away… lol. Pretty cheesy and pretty awkward.
Thats how I would feel! Still laughing at the “at me” part.
haha I would feel the same…I always wondered about how people successfully pulled off phone sex and…if it was as one-sided as yours in most cases.
From my experience, yes, but it’s always been with a serious significant other.
That didn’t live near you?
Or was out of town for some reason…
But, but, you don’t even need to be far away 😉
I’ve done it when in different rooms of the house. Sometimes I get in the mood but don’t feel like climbing a flight of stairs and interupting her DWTS episode.
good god i am curled over in laughter.
Hahahah Mainer, now you’re talking !!
I’m not good at expressing in WORDS the stuff I want to do / want done to me, so it would feel incredibly awkward for me. Who’s good at dirty talk? Any tips? 😉
Also, I’m not crazy about the word “pussy” – any sexy alternatives? (I think it might be the best option out there).
fagenie?
Ugh for clarification ignore the spelling of the first three letters and look at that phoenetically.
“pha-genie” is what I was trying to say /facepalm.
This is my problem too. My boyfriend was alwasy trying to get me to engage in phone sex when we were in an LDR but I couldn’t say most sexual words into a phone without feeling totally awkward. And I really hate the term pussy too. It completely takes me out of the moment and then I just get grumpy.
You don’t really have to say the actual words if you’re not comfortable ( cause forcing it will kill the moment for sure ) start with “Are you touching yourself?” , “Does it feel good”, “Can you hear me ?” — followed by some increasingly louder “audio clues” on what’s going on with you, then go from there 😉
I had hoped the rise of “sexting” would largely replace/obliterate the practice of phone sex… but seriously these two have not even seen each other naked…do they just make shit up or did they have a debriefing session prior to sexy time???
“fyi I have a nine inch cock”…
“wonderful! I have supple, perky breasts”
almost….
Never ! unless you can type with your… nose ?
“Do people really engage in phone sex?! ”
YES.
This certainly wouldn’t be the first time I realize I am much pruder than most 🙂
I love when Owen Wilson says to Reese Witherspoon in “How do you know” that he’ll even cut down on the amount of “Anonymous sex” he has because she wants to be monogamous.
I’m pretty sure that this type of “sex” is the very reason that Skype was invented. Just sayin……
Lollll !
As someone who has been in a LDR for the better part of 2 years, yes people engage in phone sex. Lots and lots of it. My boyfriend and I tired out all kinds of different methods for staying connected sexually: skype calls and video, sexting, one way videos we would send to each other, hand written letters (nice for when we were on different continents) and phone sex. Yes it was awkward in the beginning and yes it still can be but as long as you can laugh your way through it (just like IRL) its really fun and does help to ease the distance factor,and is totally not pointless! All of these outlets require getting used to them, jumping right in to describing what you are doing to yourself or what you want your SO to do to you is intimidating.
I was super nervous about it at first so my boyfriend started asking me normal questions (like what does the room i was in look like) and progressed from there so I didn’t even realize we were having phone sex until we were really into it and it was a great way to make me feel comfortable with the whole idea. We really rely on it now not as a substitute for our sex life but part of our sex life. I do find it odd that she’s engaging in phone sex with someone she’s not intimate with, I think I would find that hard and awkward.
Thanks. p.s. only took me 1.5 minutes to know what IRL meant.
I engaged in phone sex with my boyfriend-now husband before we even kissed. In my opinion, it’s better than sexting. For one thing, you don’t have the fear that someone is saving your sext.
Saving the sext? No. Just, you know, recording the conversation. 😉
Just like those “oups ” leaked sex tapes but without the visuals.
I like Jarek’s response the best… not that it’s a contest. 😉
Does no one listen listen to Ace of Base anymore? I saw the sign..
Bravo to Matt & Joe! Great advice!
LW… find someone else! There are lots o fish out there!
The guys are all spot on, especially Mark with the LW’s feelings. Jarek’s analogy pretty much sums up the guys feeling towards the LW.
I would also like to add to something Mark touched on a little bit. If you really only wanted a FWB situation, why even hesitate with this potential other guy? I mean really what is the worst that could happen? You get two FWB’s? That doesn’t sound fun at all!Best case scenario, you get a boyfriend, and don’t have to worry about the phone getting in between the sex.
Ok, LW, anyone that is too busy for an ENTIRE MONTH (“he already has some plans that month”) is sending a pretty clear signal. Unless he’s a celebrity and is going on world tour or shooting a movie in Estonia or something, then that was just the first lame thing that popped into his head. I’m the biggest hermit I know, and even I’ve never told anyone I couldn’t come out and play THIS MONTH.
It was an invitation to a specific concert, not “hey, wanna hang out sometime in October?”
That’s my point. If someone invites you to something specific, do you tell them you’re busy that whole month? What does one have to do with the other? His excuse was lame.
I was reading that trying to decide if it was the lamest brush off ever or if it was in essence “Let me check my schedule.”
Either way, I’m betting he’s “planning” on not going to the concert.
This guy is just enjoying the attention and flattery that you are lavishing on him and his ego. He has no interest in actually pursuing anything with you but doesn’t want to say that straight out because then he’ll stop getting his ego boosted on a regular basis. He is stringing you along. Drop him and MOA. I know that the emotionally unavailable man is the most alluring kind of guy, but having been in a similar situation, I wish I had had the courage and forethought to not let the unavailable guy I was obsessed with waste a year of my time.
Txts are a poor substitute and a great supplement to a real conversation with someone. I mean, try a video Skype instead if you’re at a computer. I think this poor LW has become too dependent on the txt as a medium of communication. I’m going to go way out on a limb and suggest this to her: take a FULL MONTH off. No txting for a month. Cold turkey. If a *really* important incoming txt comes, call the person. If she really wants to communicate to someone, call them (and leave a voicemail). A girl like this has to get out of the txts, they’re too fraught with miscommunication for this type of use (as substitute for conversation). Of course she won’t WANT to give them up because if there’s no ambiguity, then she’d have to confront her real feelings and real intentions and risk rejection. Who wants to do that?
LW that drum stick present was freaking awesome….but really….Jarek and BGM touched on everything I would have. Move on with the other guy and be as cool or cooler to him.
Am I the only one who thinks that this LW is clearly crushing on this guy? More than a FWB situation, by far, I would think. I think even IF that were to happen (the FWB thing), it would only hurt you in the long run, LW. It sounds like you’re WAY into this guy.
Listen to the guys. They are all spot-on. He’s not into you that way, but he probably finds your flirtation both flattering and diverting, so he might occasionally reciprocate. The lack of responses to the latest messages, however, suggest that he’s ready to move on.
…” Am I the only one who thinks that this LW is clearly crushing on this guy? “…
no, you’re not, but we just got carried away with the whole “phone sex” subject !
( or maybe that was just me ? )
Well, it was an interesting discussion!
Yeh I found this whole thing bizarre. I think the LW believes they are in some sort of relationship (whether it be FWB or not) whereas the guy might believe they are just acquaintances.
Great. Now I am craving meatballs. Thanks for nothing, Jarek.
LW, this relationship is just a friendship with mild sexual tension.
P.S. Does anyone have tips for making meatballs in a crockpot? I have ~1lb of ground beef, some oatmeal, some eggs, some roasted garlic, some stewed tomatoes, & a bag of frozen chopped celery & onions. Help me out.
I’m just pissed that I don’t grocery shop where Mainer does. I mean, who doesn’t love meat on a stick?
I may or may not flirt with the lady who hands them out so I can get more than one. She saves the big balls for me. Wait, that came out wrong.
Unrelated, but not really, B&J introduced [url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/09/07/140266537/yes-its-true-ben-jerrys-introduces-schweddy-balls-ice-cream-flavor]Schweddy Balls Ice Cream[/url].
Mmm. I think you should just mix all those ingredients together, pat into balls, and then stew them in the tomatoes and more garlic. Maybe some basil and oregano too. Now I’m hungry.
I’m so excited to get home & get this started with. I seriously keep thinking I smell meatballs.
i may be reading between some lines, but ‘other me’ you sound pretty sexy.
Well, TheOtherMe is much sexier than the original me 🙂
i doubt that. i’m sure the original is sexy as it gets.
TheOtherMe will be unable to resist this blatant flirtation. Then you’ll have a new FWB.
one can only hope. 😉
“Well, TheOtherMe is much sexier than the original me.”
This is untrue.
Spin-off idea: Dear Wendy Connections.
Haaha you kill me, SDG 😀
speaking of budding relationships;)…….
Actually, Wendy would be smart to set up some kind of PM’s on here to keep people logged into her site longer in order to sell more ad time.
LW, by not telling you straight up what he wants, he is telling you straight up what he wants. You are a convenient piece of ass but he’s not willing to put in an effort for you. And clearly you want more than to be his FWB by putting in so much of an effort. Nothing in your letter indicates to me that he wants a relationship, meanwhile everything indicates that you do. So drop him and find someone who actually wants what you want, and stop making yourself crazy over a guy who couldn’t care less.
I’m seeing very little in the way of friendship (Facebook and the occasional meetup?) and very little in the way of benefits (flirty texts and phone sex?).
LW, I think you need to move on. Not sure what you’re even holding onto here.
I’m seeing a lot of “acquaintances with sweaty phones” more than anything else.
Custom-made drumsticks with a matching design to his drumkit? Custom-made anything is CLEARLY a girlfriend gift to a boyfriend. No wonder he backed away – you need to MOA accordingly.
Go forth and find an FWB that’ll give you the physical affection you desire. This guy you’re talking with now? He has his limits and they’re clearly not meshing with what you want.
I guess I’m clueless, but I don’t see the point of a FWB benefits relationship. When Jarek talked about getting the free sample, that just about pegged it for me. Do you really want to give yourself away for free? Help me out, here. I really don’t understand it.
friends with benefits
benefits =orgasms
so since both men and women can experience/enjoy orgasms, FWB= not giving away yourself for free but more so using each other for mutual gratification
Kate B. – Have you ever wanted to have sex with someone, but didn’t want to deal with the hassle of a relationship? But also didn’t want to go out and have sex with a bunch of random strangers? I think that’s what most people are going for when they enter into one of these situations… just a regular hook-up type thing. It’s not for everyone because – as others have pointed out – it can be difficult to stay emotionally detached. But often, it’s better than nothing.
I think that many people (the ones who don’t understand the point of FWB situations, particularly) are the type that have never wanted non-random sex without a relationship. Like me.
Good for you if you can, but I think alot of these DW letters about FWBs are from women who don’t actually want non random, non relationship sex but pretend they can handle it. And to those women I say “Stop it!” Hold out for what you actually want.
If you look at sex as “giving yourself away,” then a FWB situation is not for you. If you look at sex as “getting” something, or simply “fun times,” then you might enjoy a FWB situation.
The stereotypes dictate that women “give away/give up/etc.” sex and men “get some/score/etc.,” but you don’t have to fall in line with that if you don’t want to. It’s all in how you look at sex and what it means for you.
Thanks for the responses. I have trouble with the NSA aspect of a FWB situation, I need some kind of commitment, so I think it’s probably a good thing that I’ve never gone that route. I guess I’m just not wired that way.
I don’t really get it either, Kate, but I know that’s because I couldn’t do it without getting emotionally attached. For people who just want to have a convenient source of sex, it’s great. But the problem for a lot of people, including this LW, is that they THINK they can do it without getting emotionally involved, and they can’t. A lot of people try and fail, or keep trying without realizing it’s hurting their mental health…like this LW. Personally, I think more people should evaluate whether it’s really right for them or not, before assuming it’s something anyone can do.
jinx.
Ha! I agree with what you said, too. Soooo many FWB situations turn into exactly this – one person pushing for something more, while the other is left saying “WTF, I thought we were clear on this. Ignoring you now.”
I think in most cases the two parties aren’t actually friends, but more like acquaintances…if you don’t ALWAYS equate “feelings” into the act of sex then in certain cases you can view it as fun rather than an expression…I think more often than not guys benefit more from these arrangements though because in my experience they are less likely to get attached from sex…
I can’t do it though – I can’t separate the fun out from everything else that comes with it so if I have sex I need to intend on dating that person otherwise I get into a relationship with potentially the wrong person.
I guess I see the point of FWB, even if I wouldn’t want it for myself.
What strikes me as profoundly sad is that you have here a woman in her early-to-mid twenties, who took one class with a guy five years ago, is clearly head over heels in love with him, and her ultimate dream is to be his FWB? I guess FWB is okay as a matter of convenience, for the cutie who lives across the hall if neither of you has anything serious going on, but as the ultimate wish for your dream guy? I don’t get that at all.
For me the point is regular sex without the stress of a “real” relationship at a point in my life where I can’t devote the time and emotions necessary for something more. Lots of communication and, in my opinion, developing a real friendship leads to a very satisfying balance. It’s also been a great way to explore my sexuality without worry.
Loved all the responses. My only wish is that Matt would have said pHairable.
Agreed!
LW, I don’t buy that you only want a FWB situation with this guy. If you did, you wouldn’t have written a letter that showed us all how frustrated you are that he won’t pay attention to you. This relationship is equivalent to him lifting a finger – just one finger – while you move, shake, jump and otherwise perform in any way in order to get his attention. Don’t be that girl! You know, the one who desperately does anything for a guy who just doesn’t give a shit, and damages her self-respect and dignity in the process? If this guy were into you, he’d make an effort.
The only reason this guy even gives you attention is because you put it in front of his face, forcing him to pay attention momentarily. This should be a lesson to you and all other ladies out there – spend your time and energy on people willing and eager to spend THEIR time and energy on you, too. If you feel it’s out of balance, it’s because it is. Forcing it to be otherwise is doing a disservice to yourself – the right person for you doesn’t require FORCE to be attentive to you.
Exactly this. It seems like she is considering the FWB angle with the hopes that it will become something more.
“I am on the verge of seeing someone else if he can’t just tell me what he wants straight up.”
He did tell you what he wanted: not a relationship. Move on.
Great advice, esp Jarek and Bitter Gay Mark. It’s time for the LW to find someone who is interested in her.
This must be denial week. LW- There are two things in this situation you are refusing to see. The first is your own intentions: you do not want to be FWB. You want to be his girlfriend. You stated yourself that past FWB situations were nothing like what you have with this guy. That’s because you’re only suggesting FWB because you think it will get you closer to “girlfriend” than “friend,” when in reality it’s just going to make you neither. Which brings me to the second thing you must recognize: his intentions. He does not want you to be his girlfriend, and I highly doubt he wants to keep you around as FWB or friend. He’s not being coy, or mysterious about this. He flat out told you he doesn’t want a girlfriend and simply ignores you when you’re not useful to him. You’re better than that, honey. Stop waiting for some dude to recognize you’re worthwhile, and believe it yourself. The good news is you haven’t invested anything in this guy. Stop texting/calling/sexting him. In fact, save your heart and head more unnecessary confusion and take a break from FWB/flirting, sexting, dating, etc. until you know what you really want.
Just want to say that I loved this bit from Joe:
“I drive an hour per day to work. I’ve driven an hour for pizza, for good coffee, and to see a new computer store open. I’d sure as hell drive an hour for sex.”
As someone who was once in an LDR with a guy a 3 hour plane ride from here, and someone who lives 45 minutes from work, the one hour part is what stood out most to me too. If you only live an hour from each other, you could be seeing each other ~3 times a week and be having a real relationship. If, of course, he wanted to be having a relationship with you.
For the first 9 months of our relationship, my BF and I lived an hour apart. I would drive up every night if I didn’t have to work till afternoon the next day – usually 4 times a week. On weekends he would drive down as soon as his classes were done (he was a full-time student with early classes). An hour is NOTHING.
Hmm. I think this FWB relationship would be disaster since I have a feeling you want more than that. Custom made drumsticks? Very nice gift, not for a guy you’ve only seen a handful of times, though… My suggestion is back off & MOA. For your own sake, bc it seems like this guy has already backed off.
The guys all nailed this one.
There’s no reason to be confused here. Besides the lack of effort on his part, the fact that he’s not responded to your texts at all mean that he’s not interested. Who knows whether he just didn’t want a relationship (which your actions portrayed that you did) or if he wasn’t interested in anything after all. Time to move on. I’d also suggest looking into whether you truly want a FWB situation or if you want a boyfriend.