“I Cheated on My Boyfriend”
I recently visited a guy friend of mine, who has a tendency to be flirty. After hanging out and getting a few drinks, I missed the last train back to my city and decided to stay over in his guest room. To clarify – I have hung out alone with this guy on multiple occasions before, so it wasn’t totally crazy. I called my boyfriend before we went back to my friend’s house to let him know, and we said our typical “I love you’s” and good-nights.
Once at the friend’s house, we had another drink and ended up kissing, making out a little, and falling asleep together in the same bed. The whole time I felt terrible and kept stopping to tell him this was awful, I was awful, we couldn’t continue, etc. etc. At one point I cried. Despite my protestations, we kept kissing. He didn’t force me to; apparently I’m just the worst human. The next day I called my boyfriend and told him. BUT, I downplayed it terribly, telling him that I stopped him after a few minutes. I didn’t mention that we slept in the same bed – somehow that seemed worse than the physical contact.
My wonderful boyfriend was obviously and understandably incredibly hurt. I feel terrible, and never want to hang out alone with that friend again. We talked a lot and decided to move past it and chalk it up to the difficulties of distance (even though nothing like this has ever happened before). This is partly because the transgression was, to his knowledge, less serious that it was. Should I leave my confession as is in order to avoid more anger and hurt feelings, or tell him the whole story and risk losing him? I really don’t want to lose him, but I feel so guilty! — Long Distance Cheater
Yeah, feeling guilty sucks, doesn’t it? You know what else sucks? Thinking about how your long-distance girlfriend cheated on you with a friend of hers, cuddling up to him in his bed and making out with him all night long. You feel guilty and you should — it’s the price you pay for making a mistake. Why make your boyfriend feel worse than he already does because you can’t handle the price of your own mistake and think confessing more of your transgression — sharing more of the details — will alleviate your guilt?
Leave your confession as it is, don’t ever spend time alone with that particular guy friend again, apologize to your boyfriend, and live with the guilt you feel because you did something shitty and you’re not supposed to feel great after you do something shitty. And then accept that you made a mistake, you’re human, and, not only is the world not going to stop spinning, your relationship may survive just fine too.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
Great advice Wendy. LW, people do stupid shit when alcohol is involved. My BF and I were long distance for 2ish years and this is why we had the “rule” of not drinking alone with members of the opposite sex, it just presents less opportunity for cheating to happen. You are lucky your boyfriend forgave you, now you need to forgive yourself and move on. And yes, you making your confession would be about YOU feeling better, not about your boyfriend feeling better.
PS you are not a terrible person or the worst human. I mean seriously, you aren’t up there with Osama Bin Laden, don’t give yourself that much credit 🙂
kerry we had the same “rule”. No drinking alone with people of the opposite gender. I always get crap on DW when I say it was a rule so I’m glad to see someone else had the same “rule”!
There are a few other guidelines you can add to not drinking alone with someone of the opposite sex.
Be wary of depending on someone undependable or who might have their own agenda. In this case the friend was probably pushing you to stay a little longer, telling you that there was plenty of time to catch the train. Know for yourself when you need to leave and make sure you give yourself extra time to make it to your destination and be able to get yourself to you destination on your own. That way if the friend turns out to be unreliable you are still okay. Have enough money in your pocket to get a taxi and leave when you know you need to leave. If you will be in an area where there is no taxi know how to make it to your destination. That may mean you need to rent a car for your stay if you don’t have a reliable friend. Have the local number for a taxi already stored in your phone.
In general, never plan to take the last train or plane unless there is no other option. Sooner or later the worst will happen and the last will be cancelled or you will miss it because your connection was late or your friend was unreliable or the weather was nasty. If you are going late make sure that you have a backup plan in case the worst happens and you are stranded. In general, that means make sure you have enough money to get a room and enough money to get yourself to that room. If you are visiting a place where you have lots of friends you should be fine but be more careful if you know only one person.
Wendy’s advice is great. DUring our 3 year LDR phase my fiance was involved in an incident similar to yours (no sex but also no sleeping over). It was devistating to both of us and took a solid year maybe more for us to really get past it, but we have and our relationship is stronger because of it. So, you can work through this and you can get back to where you were before.
Also, stop drinking alone with men. Sorry, I don’t care who they are, you’ve crossed that line and there now needs to be a hard and fast rule that you do not drink alone with men other than your BF.
Okay LW, first: Stop beating yourself up. You’re not a terrible, awful human— you’re just human. People are fallible & these things happen all the time. And feeling guilty isn’t going to atone for the mistake, so try to move past the guilt as best as you can. Replaying it in your mind over & over and falling into a pit of regret isn’t going to help anything!
Now, for your question…NO. Do not be like “Actually, Boyfriend, we didn’t kiss for only a few minutes, it was more like an hour, & also we slept in the same bed.” He already knows you slipped up—leave it at that. The extra details don’t matter, & there’s no need to feel like you’re deceiving him. I mean, it’s not like you told him you only kissed the guy, when really you had sex with him, right? (which, to air my dirty laundry in hopes of making you feel a little better, is a lie I told *my* college boyfriend when I cheated!)
Anyway, you’re done with the confessing. I wish you guys luck in moving past this!
Please follow this advice. If you go back to bf and tell him that you lied about what happened when you confessed your cheating, that will be ten times worse than the first confession. It will make him less likely to believe that event he second story is the whole deal. It will also make you seem even less open, honest, and trustworth. You already told him the essence of what happened. Leave well enough alone.
It’s definitely selfish to tell any more. All he needs to know is that you stepped outside of your promise to each other (whatever the specifics may be) and that you hurt him. If he’s willing to stay with you then you are incredibly lucky to have such an understanding person in your life. Telling him any further details would not be for his benefit, it would be for yours.
Accept his forgiveness and try as hard as you can to build a stronger relationship from here on. Promise yourself (and him) you’ll treat him the way he deserves to be treated. And if you fall back on that again, you may want to rethink the relationship because there just might be some underlying reason you can’t stay faithful to him.
3 years of only an LDR? wow. i mean, you say that this guy is your “one”, but you have only known him long distance. you need to be short distance to be able to make that call, so i would hesitate to make such an important decision, and then put so much guilt on yourself now for the cheating, thinking that he is the “one” but then when you actually have a face to face relationship, its not, and then why all the guilt? you know?
and also, can i just clarify- you have actually MET your boyfriend, right? i feel like we need to ask LW’s that now…
She said they visit as much as possible so I think they’ve probably met. Also, I mean, didn’t Wendy’s relationship start out as an LDR? And she’s married now with a beautiful baby. A lot of the time it’s just a timing thing. Whether the relationship starts out with three months of LDR or three years… If they are serious about each other they’ll figure out a way to end the LD part when the timing is right. Any more than that, we can’t and shouldn’t make judgments about.
ah- i missed the visiting part… after yesterday’s letter and that whole girlfriend who died of lukemia thing, i feel like we need clarification that LDR actually means LDR, and not just OR (online relationship).
and yea, i get that, but i would hate for this girl to have so much guilt and beat herself up about this so much when she hasnt even ever had a short distance relationship with this guy. everything might change when that happens- and then all this guilt and low self esteem for nothing…
low self esteem? I don’t think so. She’s feeling guilty. Adding a ‘woe is me’ to guilt doesn’t mean you really have low self esteem.
she calls herself the worst human! she is obviously not feeling great about herself right now…
I’m pretty sure she doesn’t really think that and I’m pretty sure her self esteem is fine. When I feel like I made a mistake, I might say something similar and beat myself up for a while but then I would get over it. Realize people make mistakes. And move forward hoping to learn. That’s the impresison that I got from this letter. And that’s what I think she should do. And I echo others. DO NOT tell him anymore than you already have. And if you can’t get over this “guilt,” talk your feelings through with a third party or a bff or whatever.
I think that’s all guilt. Whatever though. I don’t take pity on her and I think its healthy she feels this way. She made a commitment to someone and broke it. Regardless of whether she should’ve or not bc they are long distance means nothing to me. If she didn’t think the ldr should count “as much as” a short distance relationship, she should’ve been clear about that to him. I don’t think she’s actually thinking it should count less, but it seemed like you do a little. Like that’s a good reason to not feel so bad about it.
She’s embracing being a victim with the woe is meness because it is easier than taking full responsbility… why deal with the actual mess of being a human when you can just go hyperbolic with the “I’m the worst person in the world” BS. It’s a stalling tactic, one unfortunately I’m all to familiar with… because then it can also result in the other person (the actual victim) feeling guilty and results in the “you aren’t the worst person” “I still love you” language that smooths things over, makes both partners feel momentarily better because the conflict has been downplayed, yet doesn’t actually resolve things.
I may be projecting. Just putting that out there, I’ve had a shit of a weekend with my hubby. 🙁
YES! You put into words exactly what I was thinking.
Thanks lbh! I really was worried that I was reading way to much into it, because of my recent dustup and though it might not be 100% applicable in this situation — the dripfeeding of info combined with the I’m so terrrible OMG, just reaks of a lack of responsibility being taken.
I mean if it wasn’t for the train, and the friend, and the apartment… yeah right 😉
I got that sense too FWIW.
Yeah, I had an ex who did this–whenever I was justifiably mad at him for anything, he’d go to “I’m terrible, I’m a worthless piece of shit, I suck” so I’d end up reassuring him instead of him changing the behavior.
I think she does that to diffuse the anticipated grief she would get for cheating. If she calls herself that, then our response would be “no no of course you aren’t – you are just human” If she didn’t say that about herself – someone else would have and the responses would have had a different tone.
If the friend didn’t force you -despite your protestations – then you choose to keep making out with him. Just own it. I did a bad thing and I deeply regret it. She should have told her boyfriend the truth when she confessed instead of the half-ass explanation she did give. I agree that telling her boyfriend the truth now only hurts him and alleviates her guilt of continuing a lie. But let’s be real. It is a lie and I know, for me, I would want the truth if I was that boyfriend…then I could have made a decision to forgive or not. Who knows where the boyfriend draws his line in the sand? I’m sure the boyfriend was hurt to hear of the breach of trust to begin with. Does that mean to protect his feelings he never should be told the truth? If your boyfriend never mentions it again then I guess keep to truth to yourself as it would appear he is the sort to move on blindly from distasteful things. But I would say if he brings it up again then tell him the truth. Addressing it means he is someone who wants to deal with things to get beyond them. And for him to do that authentically he needs to know what happened. Not just your spin on it.
yeh I was long-distance for 2 years and that didn’t make our relationship any less real. I only entered an LDR with my BF knowing that he had a strong possibility to be “the one”, otherwise I wouldn’t have put that much effort into it.
i absolutely dont think her relationship isnt real… i just hate to see this girl so beat up after cheating on someone she has only ever been with long distance. like, to me that is really much more understandable. people arent wired to do long distance. it sucks. personally, i refuse to do long distance- i tried in college and ended up doing this exactly. i know i cant handle it.
Isn’t it as simple as saying well then don’t be in one?
How hard is it to just dump someone before you do that? Maybe it is. I’ve never felt like I couldn’t control myself.
I think there is a difference between thought out, calculated cheating and slipping up and kissing someone after a night of drinking. Like, if you met someone and knew you were interested then yes, man up and end your previous relationship. But in this LWs case- I can see how she could get swept up in the moment, and feel terrible through out the entire thing but still be swept up in the moment and go through with the indescretion.
Ok, I guess that makes sense. But when she admits to thinking she should stop, this is awful, etc., isn’t that enough to tell you ‘boy, I’m cheating, walk away.’ I guess that’s what I don’t get. You know while you’re doing it that you should stop, so stop.
I agree.
While this example isn’t the best- it’s all I can think of right now. Have you ever ate so many potato chips you wanted to barf? Like you’re sitting there, eating chip after chip after chip…and with each one you feel more guilty and keep telling yourself to stop but the chips are so damn delicious!! You want to put the bag down and walk away but just one more chip, they are so gooddddddddddd. I think it’s kind of like that. Like you know you’re not supposed to do it, you know you don’t want to do it, but at that moment you want to do it and you can’t stop yourself.
Obviously chips and making out with a guy who isn’t your BF aren’t 110% compairable but we’re all human and we make mistakes. Some times when your inhibitions are lowered (thank you alcohol) you don’t always stop yourself when you should. It sucks but it happens. And she didn’t have sex or based on this letter go any farther so there was probably some self control happening.
I get what you’re saying. Its a good example.
It’s a bad example in my mind because nothing is compairable to cheating on your BF, but I’m guessing thats sort of how the situation went down.
Yeah…and if there’s a possibility that the guy friend is manipulative, things can get weird.
When I was in college, for example, I got involved in a cheating situation where I was the “other woman.” The guy was dating a friend of mine, and he’ would often want to hang out with just me alone too. Probably should have been a red flag, but I was 18 and naive. So he’d start rubbing my back or something. If I stopped him while he was just rubbing my back, he’d get all standoffish like “You’re so conceited, you think I’m hitting on you! I was just trying to be friendly!” So I didn’t want to stop him then, because he had plausible deniability and would make me feel awful about myself and (I thought) maybe, this time, he really did just want to rub my back.
So I’d tell myself “I’ll stop him if he does anything worse than rub my back.” So then he’d, oh I don’t know, play with my hair. That wasn’t necessarily worse so i couldn’t stop him then. By the time he got to any obviously-cheating erogenous zones, it felt too good to want to stop and my self-esteem was in the shitter so I just went along with some of it. This went on for months.
I’m so glad I’m not that person anymore. I feel sick thinking about how I was manipulated.
Ick! That guy sounds awful. You were fully taken advantage of here. He knew the worst thing to say to a young woman, not yet sure of herself. I can picture myself falling for the same crap at that age.
This now makes me feel like being 31 is awesome! I would never fall for that bs now! Here’s to adulthood!
Oh, he was a piece of work. But he was the same age, so with luck he grew out of it. Don’t know, I haven’t seen him in over ten years. I love being in my thirties too. 🙂
My fiance and I were only in the same town for 6 months before we transistioned to a 3 year long distance period. So, yes we had the short distance but it was only 6 months and during the “honeymoon phase”. And, I would say making the choice to move 900 miles for my fiance and give up my job and my family and my friends so we could be short distance was a HUGE deal and I never would have moved for him if I wasn’t 110% confident we were fast approaching marraige.
Oh, he wasn’t my fiance when I moved, we where not engaged yet. That reads weird.
WWS. Also, maybe I’m dumb or late to pick up on obvious things, but this whole consent of “confessing being really about trying to alleviate your own guilt” I got from DW. I never quite thought of it like that. And, I doubt this is the intended consequence of that concept but, as a result, I tend to hide a lot more shit, and I feel a lot less guilty about it! Because, see, I remind msyself that if I were to share/be honest, I’d only be doing so to alleviate my own guilt, which wouldn’t be right, and so that in and of itself makes me feel less guilty for whatever I hid. Ta da! <— there is some logic in that, at least in my own head, I promise!
I kinda struggle with the same thoughts. I get the concept, and I think I agree, but still…
Great comment Addie!
I have the same confused thoughts regarding confession. This boyfriend of hers might make a different decision if he knew ALL the facts. Doesn’t he have that right to know?
That being said, I understand the point Wendy and everyone else is making.
I know I’m going to get dinged for this, but, I mean, LW, you ARE a terrible person for doing what you did. I know people here are trying to make you feel better, but facts are facts. You may be human, and you may be fallible, but it isn’t like you accidentally broke your boyfriend’s favorite video game; you got drunk and flirted with another guy, called your boyfriend to say you loved him, then got drunk some more, made out with the guy, and fell asleep next to him in bed. On almost every level, you cheated, even if you didn’t have sex with him. And then, instead of coming clean, you downplayed it to your boyfriend for fear of his reaction, so you compounded your crappy actions by lying to him. You, LW, are in fact a terrible person, and people telling you that you’re not here are just going to make you more conflicted because clearly YOU feel like a terrible person based on your own moral definition of what “terrible” is.
Here’s the thing though: you don’t have to STAY a terrible person. Your boyfriend obviously loves you enough and cares enough about your relationship that he wants to move past this and make it even stronger, and you’re lucky for that. So, now, you become a better person. You remember every day just how close you came to losing someone you love and who means so much to you, and you try every day to show him how lucky you feel to be with him. I’m not saying you become a subservient slave or anything, and there’s no need to wear sack cloth and ashes. But it means that — at least for a few months — if he’s not as trusting of you as he was before, you accept that and endeavor to show him he can trust you. It means that you may want to up your game for a little while to remind him of what a catch you are. It means that you do the silly little things that will put a smile on his face, like making sure you’ve got a bag of his favorite snack food when he comes to visit (the way to a man’s heart IS through his stomach, after all 🙂 ). But, most of all, it’s making sure you learned a lesson from this incident and don’t let it happen again.
So, basically, LW, you do suck, but you don’t have to suck for life. You say this is a hiccup, and now is your chance to prove it. Not to us here, but to your boyfriend. I really hope, for both of your sakes, that it is.
I agree, however, I’ll add I think its good she feels terrible.
While I think GuyFriday is a little harsh- I agree her guilt is a great sign. Showing remorse and making positive changes to prevent the situation from happening again are the best way she can fix things with her BF. Guilt happens when you beleive you’ve violated your own standard of conduct. It shows LW that you are a good person at your core (meaning you have morals) and made a BIG error in judgement. I don’t think you’re a bad person or that you suck- I think you’re a good person who royally F-ed up and now must deal with the consiquences.
Thank you for saying this more eloquently than I would have.
I thought I had put that in there. I certainly meant to; I think I had something about the “sick pit-of-your-stomach feeling” being something she should be motivated not to feel again, but cut it because that felt redundant. But I’ll definitely second that, and I think that’s a core reason why it’s possible for her to not be a terrible person anymore; if she didn’t feel guilty about it at all, it’d be a whole different story.
“You do suck but you don’t have to for life” – I’d drink coffee from a mug that said that. 🙂
This may seem like semantics, but I think it’s ridiculous to say she’s a terrible person because she made a mistake. She DID a terrible thing, but that doesn’t mean she IS a terrible person.
It’s the “what you did” conversation vs “who you are” conversation*, which I think is an important distinction, especially when dealing with changing behaviors. Bc technically is she IS a terrible person, then it’s not an act, or a behavior she can change. It’s who she IS at her core.
Calling someone a terrible person is unjustifiably harsh and eye-roll enducingly sanctimonious.
*Why I think this is an important distinction, even if it’s about a different subject:
http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html
I got yelled at for doing to whole hate the sin, not the sinner, so I was too scared to say anything like that.
I think bc she feels guilty, she isn’t a terrible person.
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with the fundamental thesis of your argument, which I understood to be that what someone IS is a static thing. I’m hoping that it was clear from my initial post that I don’t believe that what someone “is” is a core thing that cannot be changed. So, understanding that I disagree with that concept, I think my argument can stand; at the moment, she is a terrible person, but that doesn’t mean that she always will be one if she makes the conscious choice to prevent this from occurring again.
(Also, not to go too off topic here, but keep in mind that I do criminal defense for a living, so I’m very much a supporter of the idea that people can change based on changes to their environment, life relationships, etc. Put another way, while I think that someone who deals drugs to pay the rent is also a terrible person, I don’t believe that that person would remain a terrible person if he, say, moved out of the neighborhood he was living in, cut ties to the crew he ran with, and focused on getting an education and a job. I think he’d have some proving to do, but I believe it’s possible for him to prove the change.)
I think TaraMonster and I feel the same way about this- but if not sorry to put words in your month! I agree the core of a person is not static and she does need to do some work to make changes in her life/behavior but I still disagree that she is a terrible person right now. If the LW felt no guilt and no remorse and did not think what she had done was a problem, then yes she would be a terrible person. But since she admits to guilt and remorse and wants to “fix” the situation I stand by the statement that she is a good person with morals and values who made a very very bad mistake.
You know what? I don’t necessarily disagree with that now that you’ve elaborated.
But I still disagree with the idea that the LW is a terrible person because she got drunk and cheated on her boyfriend. I mean, we could probably have a debate all day about the arc of morality. But to me, while what she did was shitty, it does not make her a terrible person. I mean, really, THIS one act is what makes her a terrible person to so many of you on here? She didn’t kill anyone. She didn’t rob anyone. She feels awful about cheating, which indicates an in-tact moral compass to me! I mean come on. Talk about holier than thou.
I think your basic premise is correct about her being a terrible person. Her actions are a direct result of her choices, more than just one choice. Her actions reflect who she is as a person. Her choice of friend, her choice to keep drinking, her choice to not get off to the train station in time, her choice to spend the night with the questionable friend. They are all her choices and the result is a direct result of that so it is completely fair to say she is a terrible person.
Like you said, she doesn’t have to remain this terrible person. She can take this as a hard life lesson and grow and change. She can make different choices that will get different results. She can choose to surround herself with friends that live their lives the way she wishes to live her life. She can limit her alcohol consumption. She can choose to keep herself out of questionable situations. She can choose to not end up relying on shady people. If she chooses to grow she won’t be a terrible person, she won’t have to confess bad behavior and she won’t feel like a horrible person.
Her current situation reflects her choices to this point but her future will reflect the lessons she has learned and the choices she makes in the future. LW, I hope you understand that you can have a happy future with a happy romantic relationship and supportive, well meaning friends. Your life choices can make that happen for you.
Love this SO much! Maybe one of my favorite responses on DW ever!
Nice job Guy Friday!
This may sound weird, but it’s a good thing you feel guilty. It shows that you really are a decent human being and that you do care about your relationship. Only truly bad people do not feel guilty when they hurt others. You slipped up. Own it and try to move on.
Maybe I’m the only one, but I think confession is sometimes good in cases like this… not for everyone, but for some people. I already talked to my boyfriend about it when we’d been dating about a year – we were talking about Dan Savage and I said, “I think he’s great, but” (SERIOUS FACE) “unlike him, I value perfect honesty more than perfect fidelity.” He said he did, too. I hope to God we’ll never have to follow up on that, and I think it’s unlikely, but now I know if I mess up I should tell him the truth, and he knows if he messes up I’d rather know and have the chance to forgive him. It’s pretty personal, but if you know your partner, you probably know whether they’d prefer to know the whole truth or be spared additional pain, y’know? It’s not just about alleviating guilt but also about honesty, and about not having some terrible secret between you. Idk. It depends on the person, I think.
I’m kinda surprised the bf didn’t ask any questions about when it ended, if she stayed the night, etc. I’m pretty sure I would.
Oh my God. I’d be Clive Owen in Closer. It would not be pretty.
Never saw it, but yea, I’m pretty sure I’d want to know every tortuous detail. Prob unhealthy. And I’d prob MOA after hearing all of it. I can’t imagine it not replaying in my head all day.
I asked 9 million questions when our cheating crap went down. Honestly I felt better knowing the details. Know how they ended up in the situation and how far it went. But I totally understand being on the flipside and not wanting to know anything. It was very upsetting and difficult to hear about the whole thing. Part of me felt good making my BF re-live the event and feel like shit having to tell me about it in detail. And seeing how terrible he felt made me believe he was remorseful and felt guilty about the whole thing.
On a more serious note, if he didn’t press for those details, it’s probably a sign he’d prefer to be spared them. If he did press her, though, the LW owes him the full truth, IMO.
true.
Totally agree with you.
I assumed he did ask for more information and the LW lied about it from the way she said part of why he forgave her is because she downplayed it and kept a lot of the details to herself.
For what it’s worth, the LW should have been completely honest when she first confessed, but now that she wasn’t, dropping the additional info on her BF isn’t going to do anything but end the relationship. I mean, he trusted her not to cheat. She did, betrayed his trust and he forgave her, presumably on the basis that she would never betray his trust again. Coming back and saying, “oh, by the way…” not only puts the incident in his face again, but it also reveals that she kept on lying, and cannot be trusted. If the LW is serious about wanting to keep her relationship and really is never going to lie or cheat again, she should not tell the BF more about it and just move forward rebuilding her relationship.
Poor guy. 🙁 I see what you’re saying, but I think it’s a risk that she is obligated to take. It sucks for both of them (well, mostly him!). On the bright side, he already forgave her for kissing someone else, so he must be a pretty understanding dude.
Am I the only one that doesn’t think what she did was that bad? Yes it was wrong, but I personally don’t consider kissing to be cheating. I don’t mean if you’re in a committed relationship it’s ok to go around making out with other people, but as a one off its not that bad. The LW needs to think about what she needs in her relationship and if the LDR is no longer working. Maybe it’s because I’m in my 40s now, all this “I’m the worst person in the world” and “yes LW you are a terrible person” seems a bit jr high. They made out. Apologize, don’t do it again and move on.
It all depends on the relationship. If you and your partner have established “rules” to define cheating in your relationship it doesn’t matter if someone else thinks they are silly, you should feel guilty if you break those rules. Kissing might not be a huge deal to you and wouldn’t make you feel terrible, but it is a big deal to this LW and makes her feel terrible. (And I agree with her.) I think it’s rude to dismiss her feelings and call them junior high like.
it’s not the LW’s feelings that are jr high-like, it’s statements like “I’m the worst person” (from the LW) and “LW is a terrible person” (Guy Friday) What would she be if she actually had sex with the guy? Hitler maybe? Satan?
It’s not “junior-highish”, or whatever other pejorative term you want to use to describe it. She’s a terrible person because she believes herself to be a terrible person. End of story. You can dismiss her actions if you want as not that bad, but your moral yardstick isn’t the one used to measure the actions of the LW; the LW’s is. And she has said, in clear and definite terms, that she is a terrible person for doing this. She said it in her guilt, she said it in her remorse, and she especially said it in lying to her boyfriend (and, yes, it was a lie; an omission is still a lie in this scenario). If the LW truly believed that “it’s not bad”, she wouldn’t have lied about it.
As I’ve stated several times so far, is and always will be are two entirely different things, and I have not said that she is the latter; she is the former. But she’s capable of avoiding the latter quite easily by simply using this as a lesson. It doesn’t change the reality of the situation any for her, and I think that she’s more likely to succeed in coming out the other side of this if she DOES recognize how terrible she is as a result of this. If she doesn’t think it’s such a big deal, what’s her motivation to change it? Why bother?
I think my definition of terrible person is a bit different than yours. I think that in a world of child molesters, murderers, terrorists and torturers, someone kissing a man not their boyfriend is not “the worst person”. Obviously the LW did wrong by the rules of her relationship, and she feels guilty about that. I never said that she shouldn’t, because she broke a trust. However, all this “terrible person” name calling is immature, black and white, teenager thinking. End of story, as you say. As for “she’s a terrible person because she believes she’s a terrible person”, I’m not even sure what that means. People are whatever they believe themselves to be? Huh?
So I’m going to assume you never use the word terrible to describe traffic or a cold? Becuase it is an immature way to use the word?
If she thinks she’s a terrible person let her be. Don’t berate her for her word choices just to add insult to injury. Good greif.
Ehhhh I don’t think those things are parallel. I love apples, and I love my mom. It’s the object that defines what the word ‘terrible’ means. If I’m talking about someone and say they are a ‘terrible person’ it’s always because the sum of their character is pretty fucking awful. Again, I know that may seem like semantics to some, but I do think the LW needs to be reminded that she’s not a terrible person. I actually think calling herself a terrible person is a tactic that she’s using to justify wallowing in her awfulness rather than put her big girl pants on and own up to her mistake.
this was my meaning, thank you.
I think my definition of terrible person is a bit different than yours. I think that in a world of child molesters, murderers, terrorists and torturers, someone kissing a man not their boyfriend is not “the worst person”
First, please cite where I said she was “the worst person.” If you’re going to use quotes, it might be a good idea to actually quote me accurately 🙂 Second, are you suggesting that people can’t be terrible if they’re not committing acts our society has codified as criminal? That there’s no such thing as doing something that is legally acceptable but morally wrong?
As for “she’s a terrible person because she believes she’s a terrible person”, I’m not even sure what that means. People are whatever they believe themselves to be? Huh?
Again, I think your paraphrasing has caused you to miss what exactly it was that I said. I’ll rephrase my comment: your moral yardstick is not the standard by which the LW should be judging herself; hers is. What’s right and wrong for someone else isn’t necessarily what’s right and wrong for a given person. So the fact that your definition of what is and isn’t a “terrible person” isn’t the same as hers doesn’t mean she isn’t a terrible person; it means you don’t interpret her to be. And I’m not suggesting my interpretation is better than yours; I’m suggesting my interpretation is in line with the LW’s interpretation. In short, I’m agreeing with her. And while, yes, I’m aware that you can extend this to extremes — “I molest children, but I think I’m OK, so therefore I’m not a bad person” — I think it is still applicable in the context in which it is applied: here, in this situation.
I don’t really understand the point of people arguing over what counts as “cheating” and what doesn’t. That’s just semantics. What difference does it make? Some people call it “cheating” only if it’s sex, to others kissing would count as cheating, but all that really matters is what’s wrong to you according to the boundaries of your own relationship. And clearly this LW violated those boundaries.
I’m pretty much with you— I mean, I do consider kissing to be cheating, but the “terrible person” stuff is a bit much for this situation, I think.
I guess everybody has their own definition of what’s bad, because if I found out my boyfriend kissed another girl while I would NOT forgive him.
I don’t think it matters whether it’s considered “cheating” or not. It doesn’t change what it is. And maybe some of the LW’s comments were hyperbolic, but sometimes people talk like that. I really don’t think that’s that big of a deal either. I think everyone can figure out that she means that she feels bad about it.
I know not everyone agrees with this notion, but I’m firmly in the camp that if you make one mistake like that you should live with the consequences on your own instead of dragging your partner’s heart through the mud. I did exactly what the LW did -to my first “real” boyfriend. Telling him was a really selfish thing to do. It was solely to alleviate my own guilt and I wasn’t mature enough to realize that. And it didn’t even work btw. I felt shittier for having forced him to live with repercussions of my crappy choices. I should’ve just broken up with him and not been such a coward. ANYWAY. You should feel guilty right now. You’re not a terrible person, but don’t try to make yourself feel better by making your boyfriend feel worse.
I think that is a bit bs to be honest. So you felt shitty, but you still got to be with him, who was unknowingly clueless.
No- I told him. And we tried to work it out for a while, but ultimately broke up because of it.That’s the whole point of why I felt that way. I should have broken up with him when I was unhappy and not cheated on him to begin with. Should coulda woulda. I completely deserved all the feelings of shittiness and guilt. He didn’t deserve to hurt like that, though.
Oooh, misread.
You know, it took me a few years to form this opinion, I think because I never had any direct experience with cheating… Wendy’s arguments have won me over. If you know it’s not a symptom of a bigger issue (in which case you may need to talk about that or break up, but you probably still don’t need to bring up the cheating) then usually telling your partner is much more about alleviating your guilt than helping them. Of course, I feel like I’d want to know, and I want to feel like I’d never be with someone that would do that. But honestly, deep down, if it was one transgression and he was drunk and there was no one else who knew or no other way I’d likely find out… maybe I wouldn’t want to know anyway.
Cheating on someone you love is a terrible thing to do. But I’m not one of those people that think that alcohol just brings out your real personality and desires or something. Sometimes it impairs your judgment and the next day you immediately regret your decisions. People fuck up. As with any mistake, do whatever you can to never be in that situation again, learn all you can from it, forgive yourself and move on.
I’ve never understood this whole zero tolerance policy thing. It seems like a very isolated way to live in which you use pride as a way of guiding you through life more than reason or logic. Sometimes you need to check pride and ego at the door in order to see the bigger picture. This “you’ve ruined your relationship” and “you need to do him a favor and leave him” and “you’re a terrible terrible person” and “come clean he deserves it” and “nothing will ever be the same again.” Jesus, calm down. If this was my situation, and my finacee came to me and said “I am truly deeply sorry, I violated your trust and made a stupid decision, I love you more than anything and I am never going to let myself lose control like that again. Will you forgive me?” I would. I love her and can’t imagine a life without her, so I would not want to throw away the greatest thing in my life because my ego was bruised. I wouldn’t press for details and I wouldn’t want her to give me the details. The details are irrelevant and will only create an image in my head that will play over and over and over.
Listen LW, you know you’re sorry. You know you’re not going to put yourself in that situation again (as noted by the fact that you essentially cut that friendship off). Despite what some might say, or what you think, you are not a terrible person. Hitler was a terrible person. Stalin too. You are allowed to make mistakes, so long as you don’t make the same mistake twice. Do not let – or do not feel you should let – one bad decision define your life. It doesn’t. That is a very narrow minded way to look at life. Do your best to move on and have this incidence serve as a life lesson. Your boyfriend has forgiven you and that should be enough. Time is the only thing that will ease your guilt. Right now it feels like it will never go away and so you feel compelled to do something about it. Don’t, it will be okay.
I agree with you mainer. Question- would you absolutely want her to tell you about it in the first place? Assuming there was no other way you’d likely find out, she regretted it, and it was only a freak bad decision and not part of a pattern?
Think about what else this logic could be applied to. I wouldn’t want to tell someone I committed murder. If I did a good job at hiding a body, and regretted it, and I was sure I’d only do it once, does that mean I should just keep quiet?
Seriously? You can’t compare murder to making out with someone else.
If my boyfriend murdered someone then a) there is an extremely high chance I would find out anyway, much more than kissing someone else and (more importantly) b) if he was capable of murder then that would make him someone entirely different than who I think he is, so of course I’d want to know.
I know, I know. 🙂 I’m just saying if you apply that logic to other things, its dangerous.
Keep it to cheating then. Do you want to know if a boyfriend had sex with someone else? An orgy? One time though and really remorseful the next day… Do you want to know if he is capable of that? I think the decision of whether the breach is small enough to forgive rest with the aggrieved not with the perpetrator. You are dealing with adults…no one should be shielded from the truth ostensibilly in their own interest…I would hate to be treated so paternalistically myself.
I haven’t gone through the different levels in my head, fortunately I’ve not had personal experiences that forced me to really think about it. But I can say that in the case of the LW, where it was a one time transgression that meant nothing and where it’s extremely unlikely I would find out any other way, I would prefer not to have the mental image. I don’t see that as paternalistic, more like someone not selfishly unloading onto me for no real purpose other than to alleviate their own guilt.
I mean think about it… how can you be bothered by something you NEVER find out about? You can’t. You’d only be bothered and feel like he was being paternalistic if you found out later. I’m not presuming that.
But that’s just it. What if you never find out about the orgy? It’s okay then? A kiss is a pass but sex is verboten? Or everything is on the table as long as I never find out? It seems like an all or nothing proposition to me – either you decide what I should I know or I decide where my line in the sand is. It is the making of those decisions unbeknownst to me that is paternalistic. For me, I would rather decide for myself what transgression is permitted rather than my husband deciding what she doesn’t know can’t hurt her.
Like I said, if it’s something minor like an isolated incidence of kissing that doesn’t reflect who you are, and I would never find out, then I’d rather not have the mental image. Of course, everything is not on the table as long as I never find out. Murder, or an orgy, or multiple incidences of kissing/cheating do reflect who you are and I would definitely want to know so I could leave. It isn’t all or nothing to me, because there is a big difference between drunkenly kissing someone once, and killing a drifter for fun and hiding their body.
“there is a big difference between drunkenly kissing someone once, and killing a drifter for fun and hiding their body”
idk, HmC. Seems pretty similar to me 😉
Well. If you drunkenly kiss the drifter first that might be a loop hole then.
Nope – ignorance is bliss. It works for isolated incidences. If it developed into something more, or turned into a repeating pattern, it would become evident on its own and i wouldn’t need to “fact find.” There would also be many other areas of the relationship that would begin to fail and the issue would sort itself (we’d breakup over the state of the relationship, not an isolated behavior.
I don’t really think this is true, there are a whole lot of people out there that are very good at hiding stuff. The fact that you wouldn’t want to know would probably end up making her do it more than just once, because she knows she can get away with it. Like everyone says, people aren’t perfect, and they put themselves in that situation in the first place, there is a good chance they are going to put themselves in that situation again, if there is not guilt or repercussions from it. Also ignorance is not bliss, because then if you do find out from somebody else than you have more than just the cheating to deal with.
If you’re trying to argue that there are masters of deceit living among us, you’re not going to get much opposition from me. The difference in the two scenarios laid out, however, should point out different mindsets. The one presented to me was a one time regrettable action that was the result of a situation just getting out of control. Nothing about that scenario suggests the action will be repeated because it did not have any punishment that was enforced from someone else. There was still punishment – the immense guilt and betrayal the person who did the cheating felt. Just because I don’t scold her doesn’t mean she will keep doing it. It is a genuine regrettable action. The situation you presented was one of a person who is looking for a reason to cheat or a situation to be with someone else, and so long as they don’t get caught they will continue to do it. You can’t do anything about those people, whether they confess or not. So I stand by my original answer that I wouldn’t want to even know about it.
You have no idea that it is immense guilt and betrayal, or a genuine regrettable action, because she never told you about it (which probably means there wasn’t any). I never said the person had a reason to cheat, I never gave a situation in the first place. I just said they put themselves in that situation (no matter what it was). I have no problem with you answer that you don’t want to know, that is fine, but I just don’t think that by not knowing, everything is going to work its self our one way or another. I think if somebody thinks they are getting away with something they are going to keep trying to get away with it, no matter if the first time was just a big mistake or not.
I think the biggest difference is very much in how the person who cheated feels after (whether we know about it or not). I was just speaking on my personal situation, which was what HmC asked me. And for my situation, the punishment really would have been personal guilt and the feeling of betrayal, and whether I know about it or not, or whether I get upset at her or not, will not change anything – she would never do it again. She is not the type who would think it was okay because I never found out or I didn’t get mad at her. That’s just who she is, and it’s going to vary by person. So I wasn’t really speaking universally.
Reverting back to my first comment – a mistake is okay to make as long as you don’t make it twice. If you make it twice, then maybe it wasn’t that much of a mistake to begin with. I think the “mistake” here was putting herself in that situation, as you pointed out. That doesn’t dissolve her of responsibility, it just means it wasn’t a very smart thing to do and she likely did not think of the consequences, or the resulting consequences, of the situation she was putting herself in. In hindsight, it is very easy to say “you shouldn’t have done that.” But real time decisions happen differently, and the next time she is in that situation I am very confident the LW will be more conscious of her surroundings and subsequently behave differently. If she doesn’t, it will not be because she got away with it the first time or that she escaped punishment. It will be because she doesn’t really respect her relationship in the first place.
First of all, no one here is comparing the LW to Hitler or Stalin. Kind of a straw-man argument.
Second, what part of “You are a terrible person, but you don’t have to STAY a terrible person” means that anyone’s advocating to have “one bad decision define your life”? I’m certainly not. I am, however, saying that it defines her life until such time as she takes active steps to redefine herself. Divorcing yourself from your decisions is what lands people in hot water in criminal courts. “I’m a good person, but I just made a bad decision and struck my wife.” No, you are a WIFE BEATER. Can you go to anger management classes, critical thought classes, etc.? Absolutely. Can you learn how to avoid doing it ever again? Absolutely. And if you do those things, will people still look at you as a wife beater? Well, some small-minded people might, but the rest will see you as a loving and caring husband who took the steps necessary to make himself a better man and a better husband. I’m not suggesting no one FORGIVE her; clearly, her boyfriend has, and I commend him for it. But forgiveness is only the first step; changing her actions is the more important one.
I wasn’t directing my comment to you, otherwise I would have posted it as a reply. Nor was I making a direct comparison to Hitler or Stalin and cheating. Was merely a context sentence intended to ease how harsh the LW (and to some extent some of the comments) was being on herself. Similarly, I’m not interested in getting into the “terrible person” vs “terrible act” debate, otherwise I would have chimed in.
This probably won’t be a popular opinion but I can’t help but think this indiscretion belies something deeper in the LW than she realizes. I’ve been in LDRs and 3 years is a long time to be in a relationship with someone without truly being in their presence on a day to day basis. For all of it’s good points, there is a downside to being in an LDR. What looks great on paper may not work as well in real life.
Sure you love him but that isn’t enough to make a relationship work.
In all of the cheating details, I missed that they had been LDR for their entire 3 year relationship. So I think you make a good point here.
I don’t have it all figured out, but I’m not really sold on the ‘it’s selfish to tell’ policy. I believe that is up to the individuals in the relationship. One could argue it is selfish to deny the information and in some cases that is true for the involved parties. In other cases it is selfish to tell as some people would truly rather be left in the dark.
FWIW I agree with Landygirl. How that whole situation played out reeks of something brewing beneath the surface that you aren’t addressing.
Regardless of the outcome learn from the experience. You need to manage the situations you get yourself in. Other people touched on that enough.
What kind of guy keeps making out with a girl as she is crying, and saying that it is awful? That would just kill the mood for me. It does seem that a lot of stars aligned to make this hook up happen though, and I kind of feel that we aren’t getting the whole truth of what happened either, because we can be pretty harsh on here too.
I was thinking this too, about the crying thing. Seems very weird/creepy that the guy continued after that?
Eh, I dunno. I get rather tired of people blaming their misdeeds on alcohol. You know what? I am am no stranger to drinking or, frankly, a good time. And yet I’ve never blamed my indiscretions on a lousy bottle. I mean, if you DON’T want to cheat on your boyfriend — maybe, gee, I dunno, don’t go spend the night at a friend’s house getting wasted to the point where you wind up making out all night long in the same bed.
NEWSFLASH: If you don’t want to fucking kiss somebody. Don’t say, ” Stop. Oh, we can’t do this. Oh, slip me the tongue. No. Stop. Oh. Stop…” Instead, get up. Get dressed. Set the drink down and leave the (soon-to-be) fucking room already. Oh, and maybe take responsibility for your actions. Sorry, but for you to spend all night macking on some guy and then come on here and typing away all these crocodile tears? It’s very disingenuous. You did it. You wanted to do it at the time… Own it. Accept. And move on already.
Don’t try to make yourself feeling better by hanging all this shit on him now — which is what a confession right now would do, won’t help you and it won’t help your relationship. To do that, you need to look at why you would put yourself in this situation to begin with…
I love “(soon-to-be) fucking room”
Could this be the first time you acknowledge that cheating was wrong instead of blaming it on the horrors of monogamy?
No. I still think monogamy rarely works. It destroys more relationships than it helps. Case in point — this letter. But if the LW doesn’t wants to be faithful, then be faithful. Don’t willfully and deliberately cheat only to then blame it on a missed train and too much fucking alcohol. Why? Because it was the LW that missed the train and it was the LW that kept downing the drinks…
typo. that’s obviously supposed to read: But if the LW does want to be faithful…
The only people monogamy doesn’t work for is men.
Um, or this LW…
You’ve never gotten drunk and done something you wouldn’t normally do? You’ve never woken up the next day and said oh shit that was fucking stupid why in the world did I get drunk and do that?
I completely agree she needs to own the fact that she screwed up royally, but I don’t think she is blaming alcohol. Just stating it was a contributing factor to her poor judgement.
A lot of comments on here are the — “Oh, well, people do crazy things when they drink.” Um, maybe. I guess. But as for me? Truthfully? No. I haven’t ever woken up the morning after in a drunken haze of regret. I dunno. Maybe I am just a really strong willed person, but a little booze in my blood has never made me do anything I didn’t want to do.
LW, I hope you are honest with yourself about the steps that led to this event. These things don’t just happen out of the blue–people aren’t suddenly overcome with passion for a person on the street, or at least so overcome that they HAVE TO HAVE THEM RIGHT NOW.
You met with a friend of the opposite sex. (Not a problem. But something you need to at least be conscious of when you’re in a relationship.)
You drank together. You drank a lot. (Not necessarily a problem. But again, you’re in a relationship with someone else, so your guard should be up a bit.)
He is flirting. (Okay, now it’s getting a little messy. Do you flirt back? Do you like it?)
You decide to sleep over. (Flirting + drinking + sleeping over = ??? You can kind of see where this is going)
Kissing. (WHOOWHOOWHOO. Red flags! Alarms! Cheating!)
Sleeping in the same bed. (Yeah, wow.)
At any point in this chain of events one or both of you should’ve stopped this. And you didn’t. Maybe that’s a sign your relationship is doomed. Maybe it’s a sign that you’re not as committed as you thought you were. Whatever the reasons for what happened, you now know what you’re capable of and how this shit goes down. So be more aware next time! Don’t let yourself get on the slippery slide from drunk flirting to kissing to god knows what.
Having been in your boyfriends predicament, please please please continue to lie to him… at least until you inevitably break up (your relationship is doomed), then when the dude is all heartbroken, tell him everything, so he can transition from being heartbroken to being pissed at what a slut you were, since he probably suspects you are were lying anyway. It will totally make it easier for him to move on and find someone decent.
I disagree that the relationship is doomed. It is not inevitable that they will break up. Some relationships can survive and grow from an event like this one.
Also, I really don’t appreciate your slut comment. It is rude and uncalled for.
Can we please ban the following words: slut, whore, skank, ho, etc…? She was unfaithful, plain and simple. That is a way better word to use to describe this situation.
What if we say earmuffs first? 😉
Yes please. There is no need for such hateful words to be used on a site that is supposed to help people.
Agreed. I mean, even if there ever WERE a time when the word “slut” would be appropriate to use (and I’m not saying there ever is), this certainly isn’t it. She may have done something bad, but one make-out session does not a slut make.
WHOA. Tone it down there, tiger.
Someone needs to watch Tina Fey’s speech from Mean Girls!
“You all have got to stop calling each other sluts and whores. It just makes it ok for guys to call you sluts and whores.”
Point taken… the “s” word is banned from my commenting.
Slut may be a harsh word in retrospect… weak willed cheater is probably more appropriate.
@The Truth. Ugh. Grow the hell up, and this is coming from someone who’s been cheated on. Cheating is a shitty thing to do and the LW made a very bad choice. It doesn’t mean she’s not capable of being a decent or good person. You sound incredibly sanctimonious and like you want to stamp a big old scarlet A on anybody who’s ever cheated.
If you’re in a long term relationship, all bets are off. I’ll preface this by saying I have never been in one, nor have I ever cheated on anyone in any way.
If you’re in a super awesome Long distance relationship, how shitty it must be to go through the motions of love and never actually Get physical love. I think there should be an agreed upon rule of being to “get some” once every few months. It’s pretty human to want physical affection and when you’re constantly teasing each other with I love yous and etc etc every day on the phone, well that’s insane to me, and not a relationship. it’s a long-term telephone conversation.
Or, maybe this woman is simply a budding cheater Cheating happens on a pretty epic scale (60% on both sides of the gender coin in straight couples), (and considering we’re not naturally monogamous) and it’s a fact of life part of the package for most couples.
The LW says they visit as much as possible. So, I assume they DO ‘”get some” once ever few months’.
What I don’t understand is why everyone is lambasting her for what she did.
Yes, we get it. What she did was wrong. She clearly understands that. She wrote in to ask for advice on whether or not she should admit to omitting the details. Wendy and some others have done well on just giving her advice. Seriously though? She doesn’t need all of you people branding her the scarlet letter (as if we’re all so perfect and without fault and have NEVER made a mistake regardless of whether or not alcohol was involved).
LW, if you’re serious about keeping your relationship in tact, cease contact with this guy and focus on your relationship with a guy who was willing to forgive you for your indiscretion. If not, consider whether or not a relationship is the right thing for you, especially a long distance one.
Landygirl and BGM brought up a few good points. Sometimes people just cheat. However, often there are factors that go into making a shitty decision. A 3 year LDR can be rough. It’s possible that LW subconsciously checked out of the relationship (I am in no way blaming the bf). It’s possible she was semi-attracted to her asshole, manipulative friend. However, LW needs to focus on why she did it, so that she never makes that kind of bad choice again. I am a firm believer that people can change, and I think that once a cheater always a cheater thing is horseshit. That said, the LW has to be honest with herself if she wants to change and learn from her mistake.
Wendy’s right. Admitting everything to the bf is more for the LW’s benefit of relieving her guilt. LW needs to learn to live with the guilt and to forgive herself…because if she doesn’t forgive herself, that kind of self-loathing isn’t healthy and rather self-indulgent. As some old quote goes, “There’s a whole lotta bad and good in all of us.” Doesn’t mean the LW is a bad person, and she needs to recognize that.
I imagine you aren’t very old (college? just out?) or not very mature in any case to be bogged down by something like your main question to Wendy. No. You should tell him you slept in the same bed or whatever other details you omitted because it doesn’t make a different when it’s so minor.
To be bogged down by this question is missing the point — what is happening in your relationship that caused this situation in the first place? Drunk or not, “good guy friend” or stranger, when someone leans in for a kiss and you don’t pull away if you are in a relationship, something is not quite right. Maybe the long distance is getting to you and that’s OK to admit (especially if its been 3 years only long distance and ESPECIALLY if there is no end date in sight). I’d spend some more quality time with yourself, examining your relationship, and figuring out what exactly you want to see change.
And in my opinion, self-defensive mechanisms like “I am the worst human ever” are unbecoming and beg an initial response of “oh now now there…” thus distracting attention away from the real issue at hand..
You should just make sure to never hang out that friend again and try to clear things up with your boyfriend. If you and your boyfriend can’t make up, then you have to know that it won’t work and that you MUST pull through and you MUST find a new person. There are plenty of guys! >.<