“I’m Beginning to Resent my Fiancé For His Parents’ Behavior”
Frankly, it was the uncomfortable masturbation joke that got me talking to E about it, and over time I learned more things about E’s childhood, mainly that his parents (his dad especially) have boundary issues. For instance, while E would take a shower growing up (and they always had a clear shower curtain), his dad would regularly barge through the door, often semi or fully naked, to use the toilet. E’s mom seems to enable her husband’s behavior, too. When E wanted to take her on a mother-son hike just to talk, she forbade it to avoid the backlash she would get from her husband for leaving him out. Feelings were not allowed in E’s household, and E was actually held back in kindergarten because he would often cry and act out for reasons nobody could understand. When he finally did get his mom together for some one-on-one time recently (they lied to his dad that they were going on a boring shopping trip, so that was an acceptable excuse – but only after having lunch as a group first), she told him that his dad did beat him while drunk once (when he was five years old!), but it only happened once so it wasn’t that bad (!).
Wendy, I feel like I’ve been bait-and-switched. I’m livid at my future father-in-law for the emotional abuse he’s put E and his mom through, and I’m surprised to find myself angry with his sweet, meek mom for enabling it, too.
On the one hand, I think we’re doing the best we can do. E is fully on board with the boundaries we want to set as a new family (such as never letting his parents watch our future kids without supervision, due to the explosive anger his dad’s already shown with our niece, the first grandchild). When his parents showed up at our building for an unannounced visit this past Sunday night with friends in tow “so that [they] could show [their friends] the place!” (?!), E calmly took them to the roof deck to chat, said I was busy, and that no, they could not see our place because it was not a good time. (By the way, they texted E later saying that they “hoped [they] weren’t too intrusive! :)”, and when E said it would have been better to call and ask if we were free, she said “Well, we would have only given you about 5 minutes warning anyway.” Really?!). I’ve got a solid partner in E, and I’m so very grateful for it.
But on the other hand, I can’t seem to let go of this anger, and I worry that eventually my resentment will spoil my relationship with E. After all, they’re his parents! At the very least, I need to let go of these feelings for my own health and peace of mind, but how? All I want is an acknowledgement (or apology?) that they’ve crossed some boundaries and that it wasn’t okay, but I don’t think they’re capable of doing that (and it’s not like I can change them). Do I confront them in person somehow? Do I count the days until we move hundreds of miles away? Help! — Resenting my In-Laws to Be
You know, honestly, I think you’re over-reacting. Yes, your future in-laws shouldn’t have come to your home without calling first. And, yes, your future father-in-law was inappropriate making a masturbation joke while holding eye contact with you. And, yes, it sounds like there were — and are — some boundary issues in E’s family. The drunken beating when E was 5 sounds horrible, but I also don’t understand the mother’s motivation for telling E about it during one of the rare occasions they were alone together. Was she trying to see if he remembered it? Hoping to downplay the event if he did? Trying to explain why she didn’t do anything about it? Was she apologizing?
Anyway, what happened was wrong, but I’m not sure why you think YOU need or deserve an apology. Furthermore, why on earth would you resent E over these actions? By all accounts, he HAS acknowledged his parents’ boundary issues and he has worked with you to start creating boundaries to protect your relationship and your future family from his parents. Do you also need him to apologize to you for not filling you in on all his family’s demons before you agreed to marry him? Do you really feel like HE pulled a bait and switch on you? Wow, talk about blaming the victim here.
Please, try to let this anger and resentment you have go. Do NOT talk to E’s parents about your feelings, but rather, feel grateful that your fiancé is in agreement with you on how to handle them moving forward. So, you didn’t win the Perfect In-law Award. Karma didn’t make up for the lack of closeness you have with your own parents by giving you in-laws who are completely without flaws. But, guess what? No one has flawless parents OR in-laws. And as much as your marry into a spouse’s family when you tie the knot, the relationship that truly matters the most is the one you have with your husband or wife. If things are good between you, great. Let the other stuff go. And if you really can’t, or if your in-laws’ behavior continues driving you crazy and begins driving a wedge between you and your husband-to-be, then, yes, consider moving away. That would make much more sense than blaming E for the family he was born into, the way he raised, and the how his parents behave, all of which he has no control over.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
WWS.
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From your account, LW, E is setting boundaries. He’s listening to and acting upon the problems that you see with your future in-laws. E seems like a great guy.
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Personally, I would be so upset if my future husband held my upbringing against me. How awful? Are you worried that E will somehow develop into his father? I’m trying to figure out where the resentment is coming from. I, too, have parents with major boundary issues, and have had to manage that my entire life. If one day, Mr. Rascal said to me, “I resent you because your dad is an inappropriate, narcissistic jerk,” I would feel so betrayed. How are my father’s personality issues my fault? How is the way E’s parents act his fault?
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I agree with Wendy’s solid advice.
Yeah, WWS. If E has barely gotten an acknowledgement from his own parents, what makes you think that you’re going to get anything from them? You’ve figured out boundaries and are enforcing them, which is really all you can do. Focus on that, if you want to focus on something. But this answer you’re harboring is only going to drive a wedge between you. Maybe if you really can’t let go of it, find a good therapist to talk through your feelings about this.
This is one where I wish the LW would write in with some clarification, because – girl! I’m wondering what your issues / triggers / family dynamics are that you would think it’s remotely appropriate to talk to your in-laws and try to get them to acknowledge their boundary issues and apologize. And that you think you need that in order to let go of the “anger” you feel toward them and your fiance. Based just on what you’ve written, something is off here. Is there more to it? Are you doubting your relationship with your fiance and this is somehow symbolic? Like Portia said, therapy might help you sort things out.
I can’t imagine someone who doesn’t respect boundaries actually apologizing. They would have to admit that they were doing something wrong and that isn’t going to happen. Her fiancé is enforcing boundaries and that is good. She should thank him for protecting their relationship. I think they should definitely move away from his parents. Geographic distance is their friend.
As for the bait and switch, surely you weren’t marrying him for his parents. You were seeing his parents from a distance and they looked good. If he had kept telling you that they weren’t really that nice would you have believed him or would you have thought he was being mean to talk badly about his sweet parents? Now they have shown their true selves and you can deal with them as a united front, just like you’ll have to deal with your family as a united front. He doesn’t owe you better parents than your own or a replacement for you own. Deal with this like an adult, not a pouty, disappointed child.
Yeah I think you need to let this go too. The masturbation joke would probably have made me uncomfortable as well, and the father’s odd behavior in not wanting to be left out and the story of the beating would leave me with a bad taste in my mouth as well. But, it seems like your fiance has your back and also realizes and deals with these issues as best he can. No matter what the slight you can never make someone apologize to you, you have to learn to let it go. I wonder if you have a hard time letting things go in general? Do you tend to hold grudges, etc? Maybe learning to let go in this instance will help in others. Not everyone gets perfect in-laws. Even if you were to leave your fiance and find someone new, there is a pretty good chance you wouldn’t love their family for various reasons either (even if they weren’t on the same caliber). It also sounds like you are actually moving hundreds of miles away at least from your last sentence. So, this really will only be a problem for a short while longer anyway. At least the dropping by, etc.
Umm, growing up, my cousins and I use to go the bathroom together. We would hang out in my Grandparents’ bathroom, take care of business (sometimes number 2) and chat. I guess we have boundary issues too? Oh, and my sisters and I use to walk in on mom when she was taking a bath or going to the bathroom. No shame. But I digress.
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LW, I think you do have some anger issues and I’m going to tell you what I tell a lot of people here… you can’t control other people’s thoughts and actions, you can only control your own and how you react. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you can let go of your anger.
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Your boyfriend has done nothing to you. In fact, with the exception of the bad masturbation joke, his parents have really done nothing to you either. I’m not sure what you want an apology for? Even the showing up unannounced isn’t a horrible offense. AND your boyfriend honored your wished by turning them away. Yeah, his parents might suck, but they’re his parents and you can’t change people. It sounds like he wants some kind of relationship with them. If you can’t accept that, I would MOA. Otherwise, set your boundaries or don’t go to family events. Whatever. But these issues are yours to deal with or get over. And do not try to drive a wedge between this guy and his parents. That’s just bad form.
Family dynamics are so interesting. When I was growing up, we weren’t allowed to go barefoot, or walk around in pajamas. We had to have a bathrobe on. I remember once I was preparing to take a shower, and I had to use the toilet. I noticed there was no toilet paper, so I stuck my (naked) head and shoulder out to call to my mom to bring some from the other bathroom. When she saw me hanging out the door, I got a lecture on being naked in the house. Talk about digression.
Oh wow. You need toilet paper.
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Family dynamics is super interesting and what is A-Ok in some households doesn’t fly in others. It also varies person to person too. When my sisters and I were a little older, and my dad wasn’t home, I would walk around in my underwear (boyshorts) at the time and a T-shirt while I was getting ready. The middle sister was not ok with this, even though I was covered up more than what a swimsuit was allowed. So, even though we grew up in a pretty open household, we all have different levels of comfort.
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Also, I covered up for my sister even though I thought it was silly. I respected her enough to do so.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that LW is feeling betrayed.
“In fact, I was thrilled to have them in my life, since my own parents and I had a rocky relationship until rather recently.”
She says she previously had an easy-going relationship with the future inlaws, and I think she probably looked to them for the familial relationship she previously did not have with her own parents. Possibly idealized them as parents in some form or fashion, and now they’ve been knocked off their pedestal.
The in-laws don’t sound great, but seriously, the fiance is willing to set boundaries and has done so. That’s half the battle for most couples!
Feeling betrayed by having them become human/flawed before her eyes? How is that betrayal? When Bassanio’s parents turned out to be not as awesome as an ex’s parents (and the more I heard, the more I disliked), sure I was disappointed, but betrayed? And angry? That’s a leap that makes me think this is really an extension of some personal issues that she should explore with a professional.
And by human/flawed, I mean obviously really fucking flawed with some huge issues. But it makes very little difference.
I’ve gone through some of the same issues, so i have a sense of how frustrating this situation can be to someone who is new to it. If it is even a bit like situations I’ve heard about and gone through, I understand your emotions. So, I don’t necessarily think you are OVER reacting, but I think you are reacting incorrectly. It seems that E is helping you to establish and maintain boundaries. Given his upbringing, doing this is actually harder for him than you know, because he has been crushed under his father’s ego all his life. So, see his efforts in the right context – he is doing something very difficult to make you happy. Work with him and help him to set and maintain boundaries, but don’t blame him for his parents behaviour. Also, don’t bother talking to them about this. They are not going to change, so you just have to adjust your relationship and be crystal fucking clear in expressing your limits. I would start with the next masturbation joke with “That is super creepy and makes me very uncomfortable. It would be great if you never made a remark like that to me again.” Again, be forceful – if you are gentle and tactful you will be ignored. If boundaries get crossed, you restrict contact until the transgression is acknowledged and you get some assurance it won’t be repeated. To any normal person, what i’m saying is going to sound like too much. But you are dealing with a narcissist in E’s dad, and the normal rules of interaction are typically trampled in the dust by narcissists. They show the world a different face that is what they think they are, but in private, once they think they are entitled, the gloves come off. If I’m wrong, you can always lighten up.
PS – Why did the narcissist cross the road? Because she perceived it as a boundary. Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.
Hmm, do you think if someone makes an inappropriate joke and catches your eye, asking them forcefully to never say something like that to you again is more effective than just giving them a blank stare? I ask because I wonder if, given the eye contact, the father in law is trying to upset / control / get a reaction out of her. And a forceful statement might feed into that, or at least engages with it, while a blank stare gives him nothing?
It seems like the dad is not very clear on regular social cues, so in my opinion pointing out what exactly is inappropriate might be necessary. The stare would probably be easier to brush off.
Yeah but then he might be like, “Whaaat!!! It was a joke!!! Can’t you take a joke! Wow!” and then she has to continue to engage.
If it were me, I would actually just ignore the comment, but that’s 100% my personality and I don’t care to engage. I can also let things roll off my back easier. I might stew for a while, but I get over it.
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Some people might feel better by speaking up, though. So, I guess do whatever works better for you?
Yeah. I didn’t get the maintaining eye contact thing. It takes two to maintain contact. Roll your eyes – look away – check your phone and be dismissive. You can express disapproval without words.
Personally, I would use the comment and expect him to say “Whaaat!! It was a joke!!” I would stare back and repeat my comment. If he continued to badger me I would excuse myself from the table. Expect a loud reaction of protest the first time. After that it will get easier. Just when you think they are going to be good they will button push again out of the clear blue sky. Repeat the procedure.
I would avoid getting into any long discussion explaining things. I would also not depend on stares or body language which can be easily ignored or feigned misunderstood.
Good question! It probably depends on his motive. If he is trying to get a negative response then she should give the stare. If he genuinely thinks he’s being funny then the comment might be better.
Again, you can’t impose normal expectations of social decorum on a narcissist. The blank stare allows 100% deniability, and the comments will continue. The blunt but unemotional comment will provoke a gaslighting reaction like “What!? Can’t you take a joke?” The next response is “I don’t find that funny.” Repeat in a monotone ad infinitum. You are not trying to change the behaviour. You are setting a clear boundary. You are reinforcing the boundary without becoming emotional, which will be used as evidence that you are too emotional and that your reaction is therefore your fault. If the boundary continues to be violated, then you limit contact. With a non-narcissist, this tactic is excessive and creates an awkward social situation that is hard to re-balance. With a narcissist, there is only the question of what you will put up with. There is no balance, and no genuine flexibility.
exactly
SR, something tells me you KNOW what I’m talking about.
Yup
As someone who deals on an everday basis with a loved one who has BPD, in the same family as NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), I will reinforce what SR said. A blank stare, eye rolling, or other subtle cues are permission for that person to continue the behaviour. Limit setting is so, so important, and it’s also vital that you not set the limit inconsistently. If you call him out on one creepy comment, you must call him out on the next and the next, otherwise it’s likely you’ll actually make the behaviour worse.
Whoops I meant Diablo’s comment, although SR’s were also good!
We both (and you) said virtually exactly the same thing.
Yes to everything Diablo and bostonpupgal said. If someone is not good at respecting boundaries, you have to actively set them. Not doing that is an exercise in futility. Doing the rolling eyes/blank stare thing works on someone who understands boundaries and toes that line, the difference being that they actually understand where the boundaries are. It does not sound like the father knows or cares.
Diablo and BostonPug, do you find these threads a little tiring? I feel like just reading about other peoples toxic parents is enough to make feel deflated and sad. I know it has to do with my own stuff. I’m sure its hard for the letter writer to listen to these stories and remain centered.
At the moment, i am coming to grips with a reality that i tried very hard to deny until i just couldn’t anymore. It began when i was a teen, but i lived far away from my parents long enough (18 years) that I could cling to an idealized version of my former family life. No more. Things have come to a head, and I will not be welcome at my parents’ place on Christmas. I didn’t DO anything wrong, didn’t raise my voice, call anyone names, anything that my wife or friends would say was blameworthy (because I have reality checks with them), But I have made it known that I am no longer accepting the bent paradigm of my mom’s reality. Those who threaten that house of cards are not welcome. Eldest sons included. So at the moment, i am taking some comfort in knowing i am not the only one going through this stuff.
I understand that when you have a troubled relationship with your own family, you think that everyone else’s family must be soooooo normal. You know what? There’s no such thing as normal. Everybody’s family has some crazy in it. EVERYBODY’S.
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And really, your fiance’s family is pretty low on the weirdness scale. An inappropriate joke here and there, an unannounced visit? A father who’s clingy and a little controlling? This is what has you so upset? Really?
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And if they are a little boundary-challenged (and I’m not convinced they are), your fiance is completely aware of it and is handling it with grace and maturity. His reaction when they showed up unannounced was perfect.
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I can’t even begin to fathom why you would resent him because he was raised by imperfect people.
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If you simply can’t tolerate these people, and can’t get past the fact that he didn’t tell you his parents had some quirks (as your parents do, and my parents do, and every other set of parents on the planet), well, then your only real option is to MOA.
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Or, you could take a breath, cut him and his parents some slack for being human, and be grateful that a) you have a fiance who’s got your back and b) you have future in-laws who like you and treat you as one of the family.
I feel kind of bad for the LW – I’m certain that the examples she provided aren’t isolated incidents, and it is probably exhausting and stressful constantly fighting to enforce boundaries and keep your cool when you are stressed out and uncomfortable and probably feeling insulted. It is easy to imagine that these issues snowball on top of each other. I don’t think you mention how often you see each other, but if they are close enough to simply show up at your home, my guess is pretty often. In my experience, that makes it hard to take a step back and take a breath and get some perspective, because you are constantly on edge and preparing yourself for another round.
I agree that the LW should in no way confront her in laws, and that she is pretty lucky that her fiance is solid and they are a team. Keep enforcing those boundaries, and don’t be afraid to speak up in a non-confrontational way, like Diablo suggested. As an aside, I have a co-worker who thinks it is okay to eat off my plate and it drives me INSANE. I feel you.
Of all the responses, I think Diablo’s is closest to the money on this one. First, let me say it is perfectly normal to both be angry at FFIL after discovering he was (is) an emotionally abusive, occasionally physically abusive, controlling asshole to your FH while growing up (I mean WTF, your FMIL and FH have to LIE TO HIM to get time alone without risking an ourburst from FFIL? That’s NOT healthy). It is also perfectly normal to have feeling of resentment for your FMIL for enabling the behavior/situation all those years. But all you can really do at this point is take time to process your feelings, allow yourself a little time to grieve for the relationship you thought you would have with your in-laws, and then move on. It sounds like you are very lucky your FH realizes their BS and is willing to set boundaries and put up a united front with you. That’s a huge thing, and vitally important if you are going to make your marriage work. (For those who don’t think interfering in-laws who do things like show up unannounced is a big deal, I’m guessing you haven’t lived it – I speak from experience that such things can be HUGE stressors in a marriage, especially when the related spouse is NOT willing to set boundaries like this guy is – again, LW, thank your lucky stars your FH is on board.) Do not expect acknowledgement of wrongdoing from the in-laws, let alone apologies – you aren’t going to get them. All you can do is, armed with your newfound knowledge, continue to communicate with FH about the situation and make sure you are united and have strategies in place for common. Have plans in place to cordially but firmly impose boundaries big and small – whether it’s little things like a firm “please don’t do that; I’m happy to share if you just ask” when they swipe food from your plate, or bigger things like continuing to stand your ground with a “now’s not a great time, but next time if you call first we can let you know that and schedule a time that works for us” followed by a door closure when they show up unannounced (which is an incredibly rude thing for them to do, especially if they show up with uninvited guests! Again, WTF??). Think of it like training a toddler – if you cave to them once, you’re f*ucked, but if you just keep it up they’ll eventually be forced to learn you mean what you say. Good luck.
Nobody is in control of who their parents are or what their parents do. My parents were quite difficult at times. The relationships that worked well in my life were with the men who had a sense of humor towards my parents quirks. And who were able to support me in setting strong boundaries ( I also had help from my therapist at the time). The ones where it was a big FAIL were the ones who made fun of my parents in a mean way, or somehow blamed me for how they were. IT sounds like you and E are on the same page so that bodes well.
I kind of wonder if the LW’s alarming reaction to these examples are due to her own family severely lacking boundaries, as she mentioned she had a rocky relationship with them. I tend to do that myself, especially concerning nakedness and family, not having any personal boundaries, etc. Rationally I know those things aren’t always boundary crossing, but they were to me in my family, but I know I overreact a little with these things. And what his father said and did isn’t okay, but it does seem a little odd to expect an apology from this. People like that don’t apologize and will get sour when you don’t like their “joke”.
Yeah, I’m sure this has drudged up a bunch of triggers in the letter writer.
I wonder if given her history with her family, Its the fact that the fiance doesn’t seem to carry a lot of anger and actually has a pretty decent relationship with his parents that bothers her. If she has a history of confronting her family and its a large part of her identity, the passive way her fiance responds might feel foreign and threatening.
I think its important to trust her fiance. He is listening and taking care of her. His process might be different than hers but it in no way makes her perspective less valid. I’m sure she really loves her fiance and feels fiercely protective of him. I would have a difficult time respecting parents who had acted this way to someone I loved. But for better or worse those parents made the fiance who he is and while its fine to feel angry its not her fiance’s job to manage that shit. The past can’t be undone and not everyone has great parents. For all she knows her FIL was beaten daily through most of his childhood and felt suicidal after what he did to his son and vowed to be a better human being and never repeat. Or maybe he’s just an alcoholic surrounded by by a bunch of enablers. In either case those parents had a lifetime of different experiences raising their son and its her fiances job to process and make sense of his own childhood and feelings. She should trust him to be able to do that.
I have to say I agree with everyone on this that you’re overreacting. I mean I know how it feels when a boyfriend’s dad is telling inappropriate jokes which make you feel uncomfortable. I’ve had that happen a couple times, not with my current boyfriend but with dads/stepdads of exes. The one that stands out is when an ex’s stepdad was drunk (like he is 95% of the time) and he started making raunchy sex jokes which definitely felt like they were about me. (Note: Lyra does NOT do raunchy jokes.) It was super uncomfortable, which my then boyfriend could tell and he told stepdad to quit it.
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I have to wonder if there is more behind this story. What makes you feel like you need to reach out for an apology?
Maybe its really an apology for her fiance and his upbringing that she is wants. But that isn’t going to happen so she’s going to have to toughen up and support her fiance in the way he requests, not how she would like to.
I don’t think the bathroom thing is so weird. I mean, what if they lived in a house with only one bathroom? I grew up in a house with only one and got very used to people walking in. If somebody needed to piss while someone else was taking a shower, then too bad.